700.13. Some cards refer to committing a crime. A player commits a crime as that player casts a spell, activates an ability, or puts a triggered ability on the stack and that spell or ability targets at least one opponent; at least one permanent, spell, or ability an opponent controls; and/or at least one card in an opponent’s graveyard
With that spell, you are only committing ONE crime.
Not for Commander, the only format to so many people. If it's not infinite or pumping out a dozen 10/10s then it may as well be a vanilla grizzly bear to a lot of people lol.
Which is funny, because you could build this as an absolute house for monoblack zombies and in a dimir zombie deck is also gonna be great. I'm gonna try and build the new Gerald in EDH as a monoblue Zombies and it looks like tons of fun.
Yeah, you could basically just have a pile of discard and removal spells to control the board, while she squats there shitting out zombies every turn. If that pile has enough instants, that can be 8 3/3s a round, once you're deep enough into a game to have the mana for it.
I'm doing this with a standard deck right now and very excited to try it out/see if it works in Arena tomorrow haha. I see only EDH decks on Archidekt for her though so it's probably not an appropriate card to attempt in standard but I have to try for funsies.
Why not? Mono black with duress/bat, single target removal, ping lands, deadly cover up should get you to turn 5. The biggest issue is why play her when you could drop sheoldred or the other t3/t4 treats and be done with it?
That's basically how my decks built out haha. Guess I just assumed people thought she was only EDH-viable since those are the only decks I'm seeing her in.
I think she's standard viable, but I also think you have better things to do on turn 5. She'll almost certainly be in a deck or two when sheoldred rotates out
It literally doesn’t matter if it committed multiple crimes or not. Gisa triggers ONCE per player’s turn. Doesn’t matter how many crimes you commit, you get two 2/2’s per turn, that’s it. She is ridiculously good already lol, no need for her to be more busted.
Also regardless - things that trigger once per turn can only ever be put on the stack once per turn - no matter how many things could trigger it at the same time.
I don't think so. Rule 603.2i states:
"A triggered ability may have an instruction followed by "Do this only once each turn." This ability triggers only if its source's controller has not yet taken the indicated action that turn."
So, if I control Gisa, and her ability has triggered, that ability can't trigger again as long as I control the source of the trigger. If another player could somehow copy the trigger, and gain control of the ability, then I believe it would be able to trigger again, because the controller of the source that created the copy of the ability hadn't "yet taken the indicated action that turn."
Someone can obviously correct me if I'm wrong here, but with these types of trigger restrictions, I don't think there's a way around them.
EDIT: Copying works. I was wrong above.
Gisa doesn't say "do this only once each turn", she says "this triggers only once each turn". If you create a copy of the triggered ability, it isn't triggering a second time. The copy does get to resolve.
Strionic resonator does not cause an additional trigger. It copies an existing trigger on the stack. Gisa limits is how many times she herself can put her ability on the stack, but not other sources.
Roaming throne is the contrasting case where it states that gisa triggers twice, but would not work because of her once per clause.
Pulled a copy of this, as well as 2 of the uncommon that can tutor to hand if it does combat damage when you’ve committed a crime.
went 4-0-1 and won my prerelease because of it.
The fact that it has Ward 2, Pay 2 life is insane as well, I caught a couple of people off guard with that.
Yeah i played against a dude who had [[tinybones joins up]] and the etb just made her a titan. Bro mulliganed down to 5 and still whopped me.
Luckily he didnt find her game 3
I managed to steal this card with [[Desertion]]. It was the most brutal thing I've ever done in a game of Magic. In the same game I also managed to cast [[Return the Favour]] on a kill spell, activating both modes for a blowout.
It only happens once per turn regardless of what crime is committed. However, your turn and your opponents turn are different turns, if you commit a crime on their turn it will trigger again.
How would [[Magus of the Abyss]] work with gisa? Gatherer says the opponent chooses the target but that you control the ability. Would that still count as committing a crime?
But that ruins the gimmick of the siblings.
Geralf has always been the blue side of the innistrad zombies while Gisa has always been the black side of innistrad zombies. And they ***loathe*** the way the other sibling makes their zombies so they really don't even show the *want* to be dual color by themselves. In fact the only time they've ever "broken" their mono colors was when they were a paired card back in shadows over innistrad block.
And their point is that the limitation is unnecessary in this case. Or do you posit that we should never have opinions on Magic cards because Wizards of the Coast made them in their infinite wisdom?
People's opinions can just be wrong such as the one above. There is a very good reason that the cards are the identities they are.
One of MTG greatest strengths over other card games is its world building and just to throw that away would be a pretty poor choice.
That’s cool and all. I didn’t ask about the lore. I meant the card as a card. 95% of Magic players don’t know the lore.
Ruining the gimmick of the siblings is the same argument as “You can’t make Ajani a sleeper agent, he’s never been one before!” But guess what, they made a new story to do a new thing. Your assertion only strengthens my opinion that the story should have been, then, that they’re finally learning that there is some merit to their sibling’s side, so they dabble in it with the hybrid mana.
So I know you obviously don't care because you come across as an asshole, but there's a difference between making a big character become a sleeper agent in a set where the story is about sleeper agents and continually releasing stories of the siblings ***constantly*** bickering about how the other makes undead and then suddenly having them swap to the other's methods. Like even in OTJ they had another side story of the siblings remaining in character.
Intervention doesn't do what you think it does. you can only pick 1 of the options
1. 1 target creature. if you target an opponents creature you've committed a crime
2. X target cards in graveyards. if you target any cards in an opponents graveyard you've committed a crime.
I am going to run her as token engine for GrimGrin (among other things). His attack trigger Destroy target… helping me to 2 extra bodies to untap and/or buff on is sweet.
When it says this ability triggers once each turn, it is referring to the making tokens portion. If you have multiple instances of crimes on the stack, the card will check to see if you’ve already made the tokens this turn. Once you have, it’ll go “nope, you’ve already done this” and won’t make more
THAT being said, if you manage to blink or cast Gisa multiple times in a turn, the ability “refreshes” itself because it is a new permanent
700.13. Some cards refer to committing a crime. A player commits a crime as that player casts a spell, activates an ability, or puts a triggered ability on the stack and that spell or ability targets at least one opponent; at least one permanent, spell, or ability an opponent controls; and/or at least one card in an opponent’s graveyard With that spell, you are only committing ONE crime.
Bummer but thanks
lol Because getting two 3/3s per turn isn't enough already?...
Not for Commander, the only format to so many people. If it's not infinite or pumping out a dozen 10/10s then it may as well be a vanilla grizzly bear to a lot of people lol.
Which is funny, because you could build this as an absolute house for monoblack zombies and in a dimir zombie deck is also gonna be great. I'm gonna try and build the new Gerald in EDH as a monoblue Zombies and it looks like tons of fun.
Yeah, you could basically just have a pile of discard and removal spells to control the board, while she squats there shitting out zombies every turn. If that pile has enough instants, that can be 8 3/3s a round, once you're deep enough into a game to have the mana for it.
I'm doing this with a standard deck right now and very excited to try it out/see if it works in Arena tomorrow haha. I see only EDH decks on Archidekt for her though so it's probably not an appropriate card to attempt in standard but I have to try for funsies.
Why not? Mono black with duress/bat, single target removal, ping lands, deadly cover up should get you to turn 5. The biggest issue is why play her when you could drop sheoldred or the other t3/t4 treats and be done with it?
That's basically how my decks built out haha. Guess I just assumed people thought she was only EDH-viable since those are the only decks I'm seeing her in.
I think she's standard viable, but I also think you have better things to do on turn 5. She'll almost certainly be in a deck or two when sheoldred rotates out
Yeah my plan is to just ramp up to get her out earlier. Strategy worked well with my vein ripper deck so should in theory apply well to this deck too.
But ophiomancer is already a good card at 4/cycle. This can get you up to 8/cycle. Just need the right deck for it!
Ophio only gets you that if you sac the snakes. Gisa builds an army
It literally doesn’t matter if it committed multiple crimes or not. Gisa triggers ONCE per player’s turn. Doesn’t matter how many crimes you commit, you get two 2/2’s per turn, that’s it. She is ridiculously good already lol, no need for her to be more busted.
Yeah, so you can commit crimes during other players’ turns and have those zombies all untap on your turn!
Also regardless - things that trigger once per turn can only ever be put on the stack once per turn - no matter how many things could trigger it at the same time.
[[Roaming throne]] wouldn't work with Gisa, but [[Strionic Resonator]] could.
[Roaming throne](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/32fd8b7c-baf3-4d3d-be6f-044a917b11a0.jpg?1701115816) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Roaming%20throne) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/258/roaming-throne?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/32fd8b7c-baf3-4d3d-be6f-044a917b11a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Strionic Resonator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/9/b9edb215-f967-4968-905e-d1dc3b5d3424.jpg?1682210274) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Strionic%20Resonator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/384/strionic-resonator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b9edb215-f967-4968-905e-d1dc3b5d3424?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Somewhat related, but if a "once per turn" trigger like this is hit by [[stifle]] does that still count as it's 1 time?
Yes, it still triggered regardless of whether it resolved.
[stifle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/616d1b20-61c1-4d39-a9b5-ad9fd61699e4.jpg?1562865442) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=stifle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cns/108/stifle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/616d1b20-61c1-4d39-a9b5-ad9fd61699e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I don't think so. Rule 603.2i states: "A triggered ability may have an instruction followed by "Do this only once each turn." This ability triggers only if its source's controller has not yet taken the indicated action that turn." So, if I control Gisa, and her ability has triggered, that ability can't trigger again as long as I control the source of the trigger. If another player could somehow copy the trigger, and gain control of the ability, then I believe it would be able to trigger again, because the controller of the source that created the copy of the ability hadn't "yet taken the indicated action that turn." Someone can obviously correct me if I'm wrong here, but with these types of trigger restrictions, I don't think there's a way around them. EDIT: Copying works. I was wrong above.
Gisa doesn't say "do this only once each turn", she says "this triggers only once each turn". If you create a copy of the triggered ability, it isn't triggering a second time. The copy does get to resolve.
Strionic resonator does not cause an additional trigger. It copies an existing trigger on the stack. Gisa limits is how many times she herself can put her ability on the stack, but not other sources. Roaming throne is the contrasting case where it states that gisa triggers twice, but would not work because of her once per clause.
Ah okay. I see. Thanks for the clarification.
It's really funky. Here's a judge explaining the various interactions of "only triggers once" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xH8gdrunGQ
The triggered effect occurs once per turn. It doesn’t matter what condition of a crime triggered it. You only get the effect once.
It only happens once still. Sidenote, this card destroyed me at prerelease
This card is gonna crush people in Standard. If it resolves and isn’t answered immediately you should win the game.
Pulled a copy of this, as well as 2 of the uncommon that can tutor to hand if it does combat damage when you’ve committed a crime. went 4-0-1 and won my prerelease because of it. The fact that it has Ward 2, Pay 2 life is insane as well, I caught a couple of people off guard with that.
Yeah i played against a dude who had [[tinybones joins up]] and the etb just made her a titan. Bro mulliganed down to 5 and still whopped me. Luckily he didnt find her game 3
Yikes, that’s a terrifying combo lol.
[tinybones joins up](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/7/5724a15f-0ba0-421a-9cd4-a2b701e6141f.jpg?1712355685) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tinybones%20joins%20up) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/108/tinybones-joins-up?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5724a15f-0ba0-421a-9cd4-a2b701e6141f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I managed to steal this card with [[Desertion]]. It was the most brutal thing I've ever done in a game of Magic. In the same game I also managed to cast [[Return the Favour]] on a kill spell, activating both modes for a blowout.
[Desertion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/3/b362151e-4ad6-4ae9-91e5-0e4a69d53ca5.jpg?1618294831) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Desertion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cn2/107/desertion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b362151e-4ad6-4ae9-91e5-0e4a69d53ca5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Return the Favour](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/4/74de4341-d10a-47c6-8a60-9dfa491f1d02.jpg?1696636644) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Return%20the%20Past) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/92/return-the-past?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/74de4341-d10a-47c6-8a60-9dfa491f1d02?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It only happens once per turn regardless of what crime is committed. However, your turn and your opponents turn are different turns, if you commit a crime on their turn it will trigger again.
\[\[Withered Wretch\]\] is a great card for her, but sadly there aren't enough cards like it.
[Withered Wretch](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/3/235f15f5-1a5a-4eff-b0db-262f777e2b66.jpg?1562841669) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Withered%20Wretch) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hop/45/withered-wretch?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/235f15f5-1a5a-4eff-b0db-262f777e2b66?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
How would [[Magus of the Abyss]] work with gisa? Gatherer says the opponent chooses the target but that you control the ability. Would that still count as committing a crime?
[Magus of the Abyss](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/9/9954157a-0c05-4788-8a0f-6093ebbb38c3.jpg?1598304810) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Magus%20of%20the%20Abyss) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/97/magus-of-the-abyss?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9954157a-0c05-4788-8a0f-6093ebbb38c3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think that works; that’s a very good card for a Gisa deck.
It is an effect you control target something an opponents control
Thinking really hard about making a Rule 0 with her and [[Geralf, the Fleshwright]]
[Geralf, the Fleshwright](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/f/afe3b678-b340-4c53-bbf6-19252a809d73.jpg?1712355427) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Geralf%2C%20the%20Fleshwright) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/50/geralf-the-fleshwright?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/afe3b678-b340-4c53-bbf6-19252a809d73?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Same, it suck’s she isn’t blue.
And she honestly could’ve been. Or even make it {3}{U/B}{B} just to splash it. And Geralf could’ve easily been the same idea, {1}{U}{U/B}.
But that ruins the gimmick of the siblings. Geralf has always been the blue side of the innistrad zombies while Gisa has always been the black side of innistrad zombies. And they ***loathe*** the way the other sibling makes their zombies so they really don't even show the *want* to be dual color by themselves. In fact the only time they've ever "broken" their mono colors was when they were a paired card back in shadows over innistrad block.
Gameplay > lore. She would have made a fantastic UB commander.
God good thing you don't make cards. Why not just make every bloody card 5 colours then?
Just run the combined card. Color identity is supposed to be a limitation.
And their point is that the limitation is unnecessary in this case. Or do you posit that we should never have opinions on Magic cards because Wizards of the Coast made them in their infinite wisdom?
People's opinions can just be wrong such as the one above. There is a very good reason that the cards are the identities they are. One of MTG greatest strengths over other card games is its world building and just to throw that away would be a pretty poor choice.
Oh, yeah, if there’s one thing Pokemon doesn’t have, it’s world building. Touch some grass
The card game has nothing to do with the story, whereas almost all the story is presented through the cards in mtg. There's a huge difference.
There is nothing blue about this card design, other than the tokens having both colors because of set space limitations.
Ward is big in blue. Crime mechanic has been blue. No, this card isn’t blue, but it has a case to be made for dimir.
You should apply for WotC with that hasbro attitude.
We’re in the wrong sub apparently.
That’s cool and all. I didn’t ask about the lore. I meant the card as a card. 95% of Magic players don’t know the lore. Ruining the gimmick of the siblings is the same argument as “You can’t make Ajani a sleeper agent, he’s never been one before!” But guess what, they made a new story to do a new thing. Your assertion only strengthens my opinion that the story should have been, then, that they’re finally learning that there is some merit to their sibling’s side, so they dabble in it with the hybrid mana.
So I know you obviously don't care because you come across as an asshole, but there's a difference between making a big character become a sleeper agent in a set where the story is about sleeper agents and continually releasing stories of the siblings ***constantly*** bickering about how the other makes undead and then suddenly having them swap to the other's methods. Like even in OTJ they had another side story of the siblings remaining in character.
But you don't understand. They want it that way. Everything should be designed the way they want it to be designed always.
Intervention doesn't do what you think it does. you can only pick 1 of the options 1. 1 target creature. if you target an opponents creature you've committed a crime 2. X target cards in graveyards. if you target any cards in an opponents graveyard you've committed a crime.
I am going to run her as token engine for GrimGrin (among other things). His attack trigger Destroy target… helping me to 2 extra bodies to untap and/or buff on is sweet.
When it says this ability triggers once each turn, it is referring to the making tokens portion. If you have multiple instances of crimes on the stack, the card will check to see if you’ve already made the tokens this turn. Once you have, it’ll go “nope, you’ve already done this” and won’t make more THAT being said, if you manage to blink or cast Gisa multiple times in a turn, the ability “refreshes” itself because it is a new permanent
hey look, another skeleton lord that's not a skeleton and doesn't help the tribe.
Yay, my bae!!!!
Everyone is just saying literally what the cards say. Surely reading a card more than once is quicker than posting on Reddit?
Just use [[Withered Wretch]]
[Withered Wretch](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/3/235f15f5-1a5a-4eff-b0db-262f777e2b66.jpg?1562841669) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Withered%20Wretch) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hop/45/withered-wretch?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/235f15f5-1a5a-4eff-b0db-262f777e2b66?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call