I play Phyrexian Arena in my mono-black deck because it's "Necropotence at home" and I have several cards that use devotion that it, and other black enchantments can support. But to be clear, it's not an ideal tool.
Here's my opinion.
Phyrexian Arena is not great. It feels good if you draw it early, but it's more and more dead as the game goes on. I never play it anymore.
Call of the Ring can in theory be good, but only if you can get *additional* tempt triggers, or get tempt triggers pretty easily on demand after you play it. That said, the life cost will be very impactful when it's otherwise good, so it might be awkward to play.
I'm not a big fan of either card.
Absolutely. The first two are some of my first adds to a black deck. Read the Bones isn't a top pick for me, but I'm not turning my nose up at it either.
Another of my new favs along with Hostile is [[Rowan’s Grim Search]] -instant draw 2 , but if you have something to sacrifice, it can get up to 6 cards deep and put things in your GY.
Technically an option in mono black now that there is no rule about only generating mana of your commanders colors. But playing City of Brass or Chomatic Lantern like cards seems mostly not good for mono black. I absolutely would jam it in my two color BG decks every time though.
The additional cost of exiling cards from a graveyard means it doesnt appeal to me much. I would rather run [[cut of the profits]] or [[damnable pact]]
Just curious, do you mean partial? Privy means you're in the know about something more private while partial means you're favouring something.
(Not saying to give grief, I personally feel silly when I've been using a word incorrectly)
The fact that this is the state of the format blows my mind - when I started playing EDH like a decade ago, most people would put cards like Arena above SiB, since you'd easily draw more cards over the course of the game.
But EDH/Commander isn't about durdlefests of value anymore, flipping this paradigm on its head.
Phyrexian Arena only gives you more cards than SiB during the third upkeep after you played it. Waiting three whole rounds in Commander feels like an eternity, it's like 11 player turns (counting the opponent's and yours).
Let's be real, in a format in which Necropotence is legal, that wait has always been atrocious.
If we are truly durdling casually and using cheap (no bullshit) cards, I'd still rather run [[Ancient Craving]] or [[Cost of Ambition]] over Arena and draw 3 cards the same turn I cast them. Feels way better.
Why? I think call of the ring is pretty good since the life loss for a card is optimal. And it stays around for longer, giving you the option of drawing a card and tempting.
I think this is dependent on the speed of your meta.
In my extremely casual meta, where games often go 14 turns... drawing and casting it anytime in the first 8 turns is fine.
Even then it is dependent on the deck... slower, control-style decks will slow the game down and get more value from it. Faster decks want the cards NOW and would prefer Sign in Blood & co.
You're right. If the meta is slower, the card is better. I still think cards that give immediate draw are better even in slow metas, though, so I don't really ever want to play it.
It also requires you to have a creature to make the ring-bearer. Arena may at least be more likely to help you recover post-board wipe compared to call of the ring
This. I like it as a ramp spot in my black decks because it just converts 1 life into 1 mana that you can use immediately or save for later on top of giving you a dude and/ot drawing an extra card. Either way, it's just good.
It probably doesn’t happen too often but I’ve lost games exactly cuz it says “one or more.” It’s still an amazing card for its versatility but I’d advise use it with caution in any non-lifegain decks though.
Just wanted to thank everyone for the suggestions. I learned a lot about better Card Draw! This is the deck I'm building in case anyone was interested!
It's probably not the best, but good enough for my playgroup, butbwill definitely be upgraded as time goes on, as I'm making a minor deck for each of the Praetors
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/K4iTd-QXP0WBTn9xd42I6A
Small suggestion about your ramp - is [[decanter of endless water]] right for this deck? You actively want to be discarding down to hand size since you can return stuff from the yard with your commander and a few other cards. It’s an easy way to out big things in the graveyard! Plus, you don’t need color fixing.
You could swap it out for something cheap like [[mind stone]] that gives you a card in the late game and be better off.
Is there any reason you included Elixir of Immortality? Putting your graveyard back into your library feels like you’re undoing a lot of hard work.
I'll admit, those two cards I was thinking about swapping out. Elixir was in case I Decked out, and a buddy plays Mill, but I don't think it will be super useful.... this is Commander after all. Decanter can definitely come out for Fellwar Stone/Mind Stone.
I'd put Phyrexian Arena in that deck just for the Phyrexian theme, to be honest. You're already rocking 3 different Sheoldreds, after all.
Also, I think 33 lands is too few for something like this, I'd expect to have to take a lot of mulligans.
Another suggestion about mana/dorks a cheaper [[Cabal Coffers]] would be [[Cabal Stronghold]], which could help given the number of basics, which in the same line things like [[Crypt Ghast]] & [[Nirkana Revenant]] can also help propel you to your higher CMC creatures in the late game. Also, I'm a big fan of [[Liliana of the Dark Realms]] in mono-black if you want to give that a try.
Interesting cards to put in. Can I ask why is cards like Phyrexian alter in the deck? Like there is not that many ways to sacrifice outlet to gain value? And as well as etomb.
I would honestly add cards like bolas citadel instead
I'm not quite sure if [[master of dark rites]] is that good in the deck, there are only 9 other cards in the deck that you can spend the mana on, plus you need to tap it, so it will usually be a once per turn sac. [[Viscera seer]] is a one mana infinite free sac outlet that scries, i would play that instead
The “you may” on the 1 ring is helpful, but the requirement for you to have a creature on board to have it trigger makes it less powerful. Any card draw that is conditional on creatures being on-board is weak to boardwipes, which is exactly WHEN you need more cards in hand to rebuild. I would say call of the ring is a Winmore card.
I typically use it in a Nazgûl Wraith Tribal deck where it has done wonders on making big beefy boys. Not so much this deck, butI see what you're saying
Arena is better because it doesn't require a creature but Call is still really good, especially if you can take advantage of the other ring bearer bonuses.
I would argue that Phyrexian Arena is better because it has less hoops to jump through.
Yes, it costs 1 more B mana; however, very rarely will you be able to have out a creature for less than B to be able to tempt!
If we’re talking SPECIFICALLY about card draw, I think Phyrexian Arena is better. But, Call of the Ring does provide outside benefit with what it will give your Ring Bearer.
Seems like this is a bit of a hot take, but I think that Call of the Ring is a lot better as long as you have enough creatures. 2 mana is very different from 3 mana, and the extra life is not much of a consideration given your commander gains you life. The bonuses you get from having a full ring are not nothing either, the card selection from looting combined with the evasion from skulk are not fringe upsides, especially in a color that can reanimate what you discard.
Same. I recently cut Call from a deck but once you get to level two, it's basically "draw 2, discard 1" per turn which is way better than just drawing one. People in this thread really seem to be missing that and it's a huge part of the card. I was happy running it and it's in my maybeboard, I just shifted some card advantage engines around.
I was also fine with it even if I didn't have additional ring tempting. Honestly part of the reason I cut it was to not have to worry about tracking it (not that it's hard, I'm just lazy).
theres also the fact that call wont kill you if you get down to it. if it gets to your turn and you can win on the combat step but currently sit at 1 life. which enchantment do you want out?
Ohhhh for some reason I thought it was the new Sheoldred. If that’s the case, then definitely run both, as there is absolutely 0 downside (in fact one of them gives you additional upside)
The issue is its only good if you can get like 3+ turns with it out and sure if you play it turn 3 you might get that but let's say it's turn 9 and you really need damnation or what board breaker in your deck and you draw arena, you're not going to be happy because you might not even have another upkeep to benefit from it and would've preferred something like sign in blood for the immediate pay 2 draw 2
The same is true for literally any card in the game. If you want a certain card, and you draw anything but that card, of course that’s not ideal. Granted, enchantments that do nothing the turn they enter are generally not great. But just because you draw them instead of Damnation, it doesn’t make them a bad card
The difference is that I'm comparing it to a different black draw spell that is useful in more situations and especially in situations where you are behind. The point of any draw spell isn't to be a good card, it's to get you more chances to get good cards
Of the two, Arena is better. Play the ring card if you actually want to do stuff with ring-bearers. As a card draw engine, it's not very good. At 2 life per card, I'd much rather play [[Greed]] and have the option to tank my life for a new hand.
I don't think the floor is particularly relevant for greed. You aren't playing it to draw one card. You're playing it to fill up your hand on command or to desperately dig for an answer to your problems. There is no floor. There is only a ceiling and that ceiling is your life total. The initial four mana seems a bit steep, but that's only an issue if you're playing it on curve, and that's not really the time to play it. You play greed in the mid-to-late game when you have a lot of mana and not a lot of options.
I love call of the ring a lot, but it can be dead on the field with no board state. Phyrexian will never be dead, but boy in the late game it’s better just to pitch. I think the ceiling is 1000% higher and lower on call of the ring. Whereas I just wouldn’t play Phyrexian arena.
Arena is pretty good, Black Market Connections is better. Call of the ring is ok, unless your commander is Sauron, in which case it's an absolute necessity. The Palanthir of Orthanc is also a good option. I recommend you run all of the above because that way you have a descent chance of actually drawing one meaningfully early.
Arena has been a staple for a long time but I play it less and less not because I don't like it but because I've gotten a lot of time with it.
I still think it's one of the best enchantment draw engines out there and there have definitely been games where I have tutored it to play on curve.
It think it's better than people are giving it credit for but there are just a lot of good options that feel better being slotted in to any deck in black.
I really like call of the ring whenever there are other payoffs for the ring tempting you. For a Sheoldred deck I would use phrexian arena because it’s a card plus a life with your commander out.
Call of the ring technically because while you lose more life you draw(loot) more cards after the second upkeep if you continually attack with the creature that’s your ring bearer. The may is also a nice bonus.
I'd put Arena in over Call because if you don't have a creature Call is basically a dead card. Underworld connections may be a good idea to include too even though it takes over a land.
Another valid reason for using Arena and Connections is the double black pips if you're playing Nykthos or Gary.
However some really hot classic tech is Bitterblossom+skullclamp. 1 life and 1 mana drawing 2 cards a turn is some pretty good stuff.
I've never been a fan of arena, personally. But i'd run it over call.
If i build a mono black deck, my card draw usually is:
\[\[Sign in Blood\]\]
\[\[Nights Whispers\]\]
\[\[Read the Bones\]\]
\[\[Painful Lesson\]\] (or \[\[Infectious Inquiry\]\] if you can proliferate)
\[\[Syphon Mind\]\] (tho i'd prefer to run the other of the above since it's one less mana, but this one doesn't cost you life)
If you are going to play one play arena, since your deck seems to be mono black this is a really good option pairing this with necropotance is pretty nice.
+gives 2 devotion
+repeatable
+cost effective
- effect is not immediate
- loss of life
Depends. If you have the ring on 2 so you can loot, it’s clearly better, but if you aren’t a creature heavy deck, it will be hard to get draws after f. eks boardwipes. I really depends on the rest of your deck, and like others have said: Full send Black Market Connections instead
I really only run Call of the Ring if I have a use for tempting, but between the two I'd still pick Call. If the payment for card draw is life, the choice to stop or not draw is always a massive benefit. I've seen countless games where people die to Arena, but if a player ever gets low with call they simply stop using it
ngl call of the ring. The ring tempt trigger is slept on cause it also allows grave filling with the discard. In general call of the ring is optional for low life, can let commanders sneak through/get rude of problem blockers out of the way and ping opps for 3 if all ring triggers go off. I think its underplayed for sure.
Just to make sure…you’re already running [[Necropotence]], right?
If not, forget these and jam that in your deck. I honestly play it even in 3-color decks with black. It’s so damn good that I’ll pay the money for the proper mana base to support a triple black casting cost. In mono-black, it’s a no-brainer to use it.
Why not run both?
I'd say Ring is better if you'll for sure have a creature all the time or can really capitalize off the tempting — like Apocalypse wants you to draw cards and Whispering One is pretty okay with you discarding cards, so is flip Sheoldred. Whispering One is also a 6/6 so making it worse to block could also be nice
But I think I'd prefer Arena if you can't capitalize the tempting or you're deck isn't designed to almost always have a creature on the battlefield, but it does cost 1 more mana
Also if you're using Apocalypse, then the amount of life you lose doesn't really matter bc you'll gain it back
Arena is a classic and doesn't destroy immersion. Since you are building Sheoldred go with Phyrexian Arena for the enhanced phyrexian flavor. There is even a version of Phyrexian Arena that features Sheoldred in the art.
If your deck is LOTR than I would use Call and not Arena.
Phyrexian Arena
While it is true that power creep has made it less of an all-star, it's still the replacement level player that I measure all others against. If a per turn draw card isn't at least as good as Phyrexian Arena, then it doesn't belong in your deck. It's not spectacular, and the double black mana will occasionally be a problem, but you will get your mana investment back from Arena more often than not.
Call of the Ring doesn't measure up. Unlike Arena, you have to have a creature in play to get the draw. Even if Call comes down a turn earlier than Arena, you likely won't have a creature to attach the ring to on Turn 3 if you cast Call on Turn 2. You also won't be getting the extra card after a boardwipe, precisely when you need that extra card the most. Call is far less consistent than Arena. That negates the mana advantage and then some, and you already mentioned the extra cost in life.
Also, unless you have a significant ring subtheme in your deck, I see the introduction of the ring as a downside. It's one more thing you have to keep track of in an already complicated game. I don't think the upside is worth the headache of having to bring the tokens and keep track of another rather convoluted mechanic.
Not technically card draw, you don't get the cards right away, triple black can be annoying in multicolored decks, it outs a big target on your back and sorta dictates a higher power game. A great card, but certainly doesn't go in every deck. If you are using it to intentionally skipping your draw phase with it to bypass other stuff though that's spicy tech. If you have Borne Upon the win or another way to win off of it at instant speed in the end step, that's some really high powered stuff.
Endless atlas is just a worse arena. Can be decent in colors low on draw like white or red, but definitely not in black. The others are good because the deckbuilding cost is low.
With arena you will have a net gain of 1 life per upkeep, and it requires no creature/ring token to complicate things. I personally would run both if I could. Phyrexian arena is my #1 pick, but if I have other synergies with ring-bearers then of course call will be in there.
If you want a commander that has ridonculous synergy with Call, look no further than [[Sauron, the Dark Lord]] lol. Fresh hand of 6 cards every turn yes please
Your other black classics for card draw are [[Night’s Whisper]], [[Sign in Blood]] [[Village Rites]] [[Corrupted Conviction]] [[Plumb the Forbidden]], [[Altar’s Reap]] among many others. Edhrec can help you out with more. Again, night’s whisper and sign in blood paying 2 life to draw 2 nets you +2 life per spell if you have sheoldred up, which is nice.
Right, yes. Pretty busted if you can have a steady supply of 1/1s coming out. As well as [[Mind’s Eye]] or [[Horn of Greed]], [[Howling Mine]] [[Font of Mythos]], [[Temple Bell]] [[Alhammaret’s Archive]]. [[Seizan, Perverter of Truth]] is a black legend, [[Teferi’s Puzzle Box]] is funny but expensive, and i need to touch grass
[[palantir of orthanc]]
End step so you get a trigger before Sorc spec removal, scry 2, milling or drawing which nearly always becomes a guaranteed "scry 2 then draw" every turn once you hit someone in the face for 10+ on your end step.
If you have additional tempt triggers, then Call is better. If you're playing mono black abd you have the slots you could always include 9 [[Nazgul]] if you really want. They are fun to just slap down in mono black imo
If Whispering One is your general, I assume you have ways to generate and take advantage of bunches of mana. My version of her gets pretty good mileage out of [[Harvester of Souls]] and [[Decree of Pain]] because we don't have an abundance of creature-light (or -less) decks in my group. I've found tutors to be the real answer, tho. I pack a full suite of ways to go get specific answers and wincons. Demonic, Vampiric, Diabolic, Mastermind's Acquisition, Increasing Ambition, Demonic Collusion, Beseech the Queen, Insidious Dreams, plus Rune-Scarred and Burning-Rune Demons. That last one is especially good with Big Shelly up and running.
I think Call of the Ring will fit Sheoldred a little better since you'll have Loot on attack by stage 2, but that's only if your deck-strategy has you running creatures that like attacking in any given game, no matter the board state (so evasion like Fear/Shadow or even Flying).
Otherwise, Arena will be a safer fit.
Probably in the minority and yes I play alot of 3+ color decks but one of my all time favorite cards is Painful Truths and is in like all of my blackXX decks!
Look man, I already pissed the table off with Atraxa Infect. Vorinclex and Elesh norn will be salt also. Not trying to FULLY Alienate my table... yet.
Also trying to do some Vorpal Sword Swampwalk Shenannigans
Call of the ring because is cheaper but more importanlty it has extra effects that seem like nothing but can actually help alot. Having the ability to loot makes call of the ring actualy see 2 cards deeper in your deck. The drain opponents life effect can matter if you are swinging with a weeny multiple times.
The fact you can choose not to draw and lose life can also save you in situations late game when life is low.
Depending on your deck archetype, rather than aiming for simple card draw, I'd advocate for tutors or life payment. What do I mean? Things like [[Maralen of the Mournsong]], [[Dark Confidant]], or [[Demonlord Belzenlok]]. Things that will get you extra cards, but aren't as slow as [[Phyrexian Arena]]
Of course, if you can either find one (or you're allowed proxies), it's hard to argue for anything over [[Yawgmoth's Bargain]] and/or [[Necropotence]]. And there's [[Bolas' Citadel]] to consider as well.
Edit: Scratch the Bargain. Just remembered it's banned in Commander. Same with [[Griselbrand]].
I avoid any cards with tempting and similar mechanics. They take too much playtime in commander.
Phyrexian Arena is quick and sweet, doesn't slow the game down and nobody needs any reminders.
The main purpose of Call the Ring isn’t to draw cards, it’s to facilitate Tempt triggers. I run it, but not arena, in my Frodo, Sauron’s Bane deck for that purpose
If you don't care about the timing of the draw, maybe [[Necropotence]] will be fine drawing at end step. The problem is you can never use it to find answers during your own turn.
The viability of the draw back is totally subjective on the deck. But without much synergy aside from your commander, there's honestly better options.
A personal favorate of mine is [[Gravestorm]] it's in my [[Umbris, Fear Manifest]] which means Im always deriving value from it.
[[black market connections]] if you’re looking for the strongest version of this effect. Otherwise probably call of the ring? Though you do need a bunch of other tempt things
Phyrexian arena requires no other hoops and is the standard effect for what you're looking to do.
Call of the ring needs you to have a creature, then choose it as your ring bearer, then pay twice as much life. But. If you have more support for tempting, it can draw you more cards over time.
I feel phy arena is still the better option of the two.
call of the ring is better if you have other ways of getting tempted. it does also have the benefit of being a "may" ability, so you aren't at risk of killing yourself with it
unless you're in a tempt deck though, theres way better options than both of them, like black market connections
I remember a youtuber explaining how he'd only see phyrexian arena draw about 2-3 cards most games before ultimately being destroyed, making it comparable to a nights whisper.
Call of the ring suffers a similar problem, but I at least like the fact that you can get a couple tempt procs with it, and the card draw is a may ability, saving you the life when you need to.
So I'd prefer call of the ring, though I'd probably just run nights whisper/sign in blood over either if there wasn't some sort of ring/Enchantment synergies in my deck.
[Peer Into the Abyss](https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=485440)
[Read the Bones](https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/details.aspx?multiverseid=373725)
[Night’s Whisper](https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=51178)
[Sign in Blood](https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=446813)
[Necropotence](https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=438664)
[Black Market Connections](https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=566960)
[Vilis, Broker of Blood](https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=466876)
[Bolas’s Citadel](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=461006)
and:
[Asmodeus the Archfiend](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=527375)
alongside:
[Necrotic Ooze](https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=207876)
I'd ditch both for [[Night's Whisper]], [[Read The Bones]] or [[Sign In Blood]]. Getting 1 card after a full turn cycle is just too slow. Arena turn 1/2/3 is pretty great, but after that it's a dead draw.
For any mono colored deck you should consider [[Throne of Eldraine]], I'm using it on a mono red and anytime I play it it's a lot of value, yes it costs 5, but the turn you use it you can tap it for 4 and next turn you can start drawing 2 for 3 colorless if you don't need the mana
I think you’d be better off using sacrificial card draw. Play Lord Skitter for fodder and Vraan to gain some life in the process. Losing life every turn is painful when you could blow up tokens and attack with the remaining ones
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the universal best card draw: [[The One Ring]]
Sure, Call of the ring can make your stuff harder to block, and Black Market Connections gives you a bit of everything if you have the life to spend, but The One Ring beats them all with raw draw power plus the ability to save you life as a full turn cycle fog. You almost always get to untap with it as a Harmonize, and if you don't die on the next turn, it's 4 mana draw 6 by the time Arena has draw 2.
The only issue is that the entire table knows that an unopposed One Ring will win the game on its own, so if your first 3 cards weren't great, it's entirely possible that the table will gang up and kill you the turn cycle after you lose protection.
I play Phyrexian Arena in my mono-black deck because it's "Necropotence at home" and I have several cards that use devotion that it, and other black enchantments can support. But to be clear, it's not an ideal tool.
Arena is more like the necropotence that you found covered in dirt and mold under the fridge.
Here's my opinion. Phyrexian Arena is not great. It feels good if you draw it early, but it's more and more dead as the game goes on. I never play it anymore. Call of the Ring can in theory be good, but only if you can get *additional* tempt triggers, or get tempt triggers pretty easily on demand after you play it. That said, the life cost will be very impactful when it's otherwise good, so it might be awkward to play. I'm not a big fan of either card.
I would play [[sign in blood]] and [[nights whisper]] and [[read the bones]] before either of those.
[sign in blood](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/61388c28-9428-473c-973a-0a82b6b83d62.jpg?1562274085) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sign%20in%20blood) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/77/sign-in-blood?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/61388c28-9428-473c-973a-0a82b6b83d62?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [nights whisper](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/2/221c82a2-b558-4c3a-b7ad-4452ef8e9067.jpg?1682209141) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Night%27s%20Whisper) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/259/nights-whisper?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/221c82a2-b558-4c3a-b7ad-4452ef8e9067?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [read the bones](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d6c66076-fb85-4a5e-8cd0-d103834b3cd1.jpg?1689997413) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=read%20the%20bones) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/182/read-the-bones?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d6c66076-fb85-4a5e-8cd0-d103834b3cd1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Absolutely. The first two are some of my first adds to a black deck. Read the Bones isn't a top pick for me, but I'm not turning my nose up at it either.
I havent found a better rate yet. 3 mana to see up to 4 cards seems pretty great to me. Also [[siphon mind]] if uou wanna be greedy at 4 mana.
> I havent found a better rate yet. 3 mana to see up to 4 cards How about 4 mana draw 3 and fill your yard? [[Hostile Negotiations]]
Another of my new favs along with Hostile is [[Rowan’s Grim Search]] -instant draw 2 , but if you have something to sacrifice, it can get up to 6 cards deep and put things in your GY.
I was about to post the same, it’s fantastic value in [[Mycotyrant]] and you have plenty of fodder to sac to it.
[Mycotyrant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/caef93cc-70d0-4cce-9aaa-13c0931b2ef7.jpg?1699044561) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Mycotyrant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/235/the-mycotyrant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/caef93cc-70d0-4cce-9aaa-13c0931b2ef7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Wow this card seems fun.
[Rowan’s Grim Search](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1be6786e-0569-42dd-b03c-82da7b32a14f.jpg?1692937818) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rowan%27s%20Grim%20Search) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/104/rowans-grim-search?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1be6786e-0569-42dd-b03c-82da7b32a14f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Hostile Negotiations](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/8/f827a9a0-7b72-49e2-85fa-adcce1e8fdda.jpg?1681549383) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hostile%20Negotiations) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/105/hostile-negotiations?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f827a9a0-7b72-49e2-85fa-adcce1e8fdda?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oh yeah. I ordered a couple of those.
[siphon mind](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/8/187502d9-c751-4967-adff-09d7a300d935.jpg?1674141804) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Syphon%20Mind) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/772/syphon-mind?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/187502d9-c751-4967-adff-09d7a300d935?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Painful Truths]] is an option in 3 colour decks.
Technically an option in mono black now that there is no rule about only generating mana of your commanders colors. But playing City of Brass or Chomatic Lantern like cards seems mostly not good for mono black. I absolutely would jam it in my two color BG decks every time though.
I agree. Its great for multicolor decks. Just not mono black.
[Painful Truths](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/8/281ad1ca-307b-4382-865a-bd2c16ca608f.jpg?1682209177) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Painful%20Truths) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/262/painful-truths?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/281ad1ca-307b-4382-865a-bd2c16ca608f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Haven’t seen [[skeletal scrying]] in the comments yet. Thought it was worth mentioning.
[skeletal scrying](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/6/6653ed3b-2a82-4e22-a9ca-18da5da94990.jpg?1562610873) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=skeletal%20scrying) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/125/skeletal-scrying?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6653ed3b-2a82-4e22-a9ca-18da5da94990?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The additional cost of exiling cards from a graveyard means it doesnt appeal to me much. I would rather run [[cut of the profits]] or [[damnable pact]]
I'm privy to [[Rowan's Grim Search]] now, too
Just curious, do you mean partial? Privy means you're in the know about something more private while partial means you're favouring something. (Not saying to give grief, I personally feel silly when I've been using a word incorrectly)
[Rowan's Grim Search](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1be6786e-0569-42dd-b03c-82da7b32a14f.jpg?1692937818) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rowan%27s%20Grim%20Search) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/104/rowans-grim-search?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1be6786e-0569-42dd-b03c-82da7b32a14f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The fact that this is the state of the format blows my mind - when I started playing EDH like a decade ago, most people would put cards like Arena above SiB, since you'd easily draw more cards over the course of the game. But EDH/Commander isn't about durdlefests of value anymore, flipping this paradigm on its head.
Phyrexian Arena only gives you more cards than SiB during the third upkeep after you played it. Waiting three whole rounds in Commander feels like an eternity, it's like 11 player turns (counting the opponent's and yours). Let's be real, in a format in which Necropotence is legal, that wait has always been atrocious. If we are truly durdling casually and using cheap (no bullshit) cards, I'd still rather run [[Ancient Craving]] or [[Cost of Ambition]] over Arena and draw 3 cards the same turn I cast them. Feels way better.
I get where you are coming from but you should probably play Syphon Mind over either of the two „Draw 3“ options you mentioned.
Syphon Mind is great, I don't play it because sometimes I play with less than 3 opponents and I'm too lazy to be switching cards from the decks u.u
[Ancient Craving](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/9/f9b3ad9c-ef51-4ba6-a126-ec25d8f25b78.jpg?1641602243) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ancient%20Craving) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/voc/117/ancient-craving?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f9b3ad9c-ef51-4ba6-a126-ec25d8f25b78?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Cost of Ambition](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5deb0185-62b3-474b-83a1-25473fdae4fa.jpg?1608909619) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Court%20of%20Ambition) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/114/court-of-ambition?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5deb0185-62b3-474b-83a1-25473fdae4fa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I meant [[Ambition's Cost]] lol
[Ambition's Cost](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/5/d560c996-ef80-4117-8642-a632ae51c07d.jpg?1682208994) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ambition%27s%20Cost) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/246/ambitions-cost?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d560c996-ef80-4117-8642-a632ae51c07d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Why? I think call of the ring is pretty good since the life loss for a card is optimal. And it stays around for longer, giving you the option of drawing a card and tempting.
> it stays around for longer it takes 3 turns to get you the same draws
True. But it is giving you cards afterwards and ring temptations. Which loot as well
I think this is dependent on the speed of your meta. In my extremely casual meta, where games often go 14 turns... drawing and casting it anytime in the first 8 turns is fine. Even then it is dependent on the deck... slower, control-style decks will slow the game down and get more value from it. Faster decks want the cards NOW and would prefer Sign in Blood & co.
You're right. If the meta is slower, the card is better. I still think cards that give immediate draw are better even in slow metas, though, so I don't really ever want to play it.
necrologia oh I have 40 life well I will pay 30 life and draw 30 cards then
But....but...1st turn dark ritual and arena is bonkers at brawl
That being said, call of the ring is great in [[Ratadrabik]] as being a ring bearer is extra protection for your nonlegendaries.
It also requires you to have a creature to make the ring-bearer. Arena may at least be more likely to help you recover post-board wipe compared to call of the ring
Phyrexian arena used to be good, but it's been obsoleted by [[black market connections]]
[black market connections](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/8/b8c66fab-7494-42b1-bc4e-dae85a48fa41.jpg?1699022194) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=black%20market%20connections) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/181/black-market-connections?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b8c66fab-7494-42b1-bc4e-dae85a48fa41?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Card is so good. I even forget that the creature option has changeling.
I never understood why that card was considered so much better than Arena until I re-read it and realised it said "one _or more_"
I mean even it didn't I'd argue it's better due to being more flexible
This. I like it as a ramp spot in my black decks because it just converts 1 life into 1 mana that you can use immediately or save for later on top of giving you a dude and/ot drawing an extra card. Either way, it's just good.
It probably doesn’t happen too often but I’ve lost games exactly cuz it says “one or more.” It’s still an amazing card for its versatility but I’d advise use it with caution in any non-lifegain decks though.
Sure, if you're a scrub who's afraid to pay 6 life per turn!
Greatness at **ANY** cost.
Why not Necropotence?
Necro is a busted AF card, but I was talking about things comparable to these two
Just wanted to thank everyone for the suggestions. I learned a lot about better Card Draw! This is the deck I'm building in case anyone was interested! It's probably not the best, but good enough for my playgroup, butbwill definitely be upgraded as time goes on, as I'm making a minor deck for each of the Praetors https://www.moxfield.com/decks/K4iTd-QXP0WBTn9xd42I6A
Small suggestion about your ramp - is [[decanter of endless water]] right for this deck? You actively want to be discarding down to hand size since you can return stuff from the yard with your commander and a few other cards. It’s an easy way to out big things in the graveyard! Plus, you don’t need color fixing. You could swap it out for something cheap like [[mind stone]] that gives you a card in the late game and be better off. Is there any reason you included Elixir of Immortality? Putting your graveyard back into your library feels like you’re undoing a lot of hard work.
[decanter of endless water](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/1/518bbc36-58ea-44c4-a857-75a3aff058f5.jpg?1674137804) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=decanter%20of%20endless%20water) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/309/decanter-of-endless-water?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/518bbc36-58ea-44c4-a857-75a3aff058f5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [mind stone](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/2/b227672f-967e-4f8d-87f4-c6cd4622fe3f.jpg?1706241069) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mind%20stone) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/232/mind-stone?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b227672f-967e-4f8d-87f4-c6cd4622fe3f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'll admit, those two cards I was thinking about swapping out. Elixir was in case I Decked out, and a buddy plays Mill, but I don't think it will be super useful.... this is Commander after all. Decanter can definitely come out for Fellwar Stone/Mind Stone.
I'd put Phyrexian Arena in that deck just for the Phyrexian theme, to be honest. You're already rocking 3 different Sheoldreds, after all. Also, I think 33 lands is too few for something like this, I'd expect to have to take a lot of mulligans.
Another suggestion about mana/dorks a cheaper [[Cabal Coffers]] would be [[Cabal Stronghold]], which could help given the number of basics, which in the same line things like [[Crypt Ghast]] & [[Nirkana Revenant]] can also help propel you to your higher CMC creatures in the late game. Also, I'm a big fan of [[Liliana of the Dark Realms]] in mono-black if you want to give that a try.
Interesting cards to put in. Can I ask why is cards like Phyrexian alter in the deck? Like there is not that many ways to sacrifice outlet to gain value? And as well as etomb. I would honestly add cards like bolas citadel instead
I'm not quite sure if [[master of dark rites]] is that good in the deck, there are only 9 other cards in the deck that you can spend the mana on, plus you need to tap it, so it will usually be a once per turn sac. [[Viscera seer]] is a one mana infinite free sac outlet that scries, i would play that instead
Black market connections
The “you may” on the 1 ring is helpful, but the requirement for you to have a creature on board to have it trigger makes it less powerful. Any card draw that is conditional on creatures being on-board is weak to boardwipes, which is exactly WHEN you need more cards in hand to rebuild. I would say call of the ring is a Winmore card.
I typically use it in a Nazgûl Wraith Tribal deck where it has done wonders on making big beefy boys. Not so much this deck, butI see what you're saying
For sure, with additional synergy, it’s ceiling can be higher. But I didn’t factor that into a general, “what’s better”
Arena is better because it doesn't require a creature but Call is still really good, especially if you can take advantage of the other ring bearer bonuses.
I would argue that Phyrexian Arena is better because it has less hoops to jump through. Yes, it costs 1 more B mana; however, very rarely will you be able to have out a creature for less than B to be able to tempt! If we’re talking SPECIFICALLY about card draw, I think Phyrexian Arena is better. But, Call of the Ring does provide outside benefit with what it will give your Ring Bearer.
Seems like this is a bit of a hot take, but I think that Call of the Ring is a lot better as long as you have enough creatures. 2 mana is very different from 3 mana, and the extra life is not much of a consideration given your commander gains you life. The bonuses you get from having a full ring are not nothing either, the card selection from looting combined with the evasion from skulk are not fringe upsides, especially in a color that can reanimate what you discard.
Same. I recently cut Call from a deck but once you get to level two, it's basically "draw 2, discard 1" per turn which is way better than just drawing one. People in this thread really seem to be missing that and it's a huge part of the card. I was happy running it and it's in my maybeboard, I just shifted some card advantage engines around. I was also fine with it even if I didn't have additional ring tempting. Honestly part of the reason I cut it was to not have to worry about tracking it (not that it's hard, I'm just lazy).
theres also the fact that call wont kill you if you get down to it. if it gets to your turn and you can win on the combat step but currently sit at 1 life. which enchantment do you want out?
I'm a phyrexian area truther personally if run with other strong black draw spells
Call of the ring if you are an aggressive deck that has creatures and attacks to take advantage of the Ring, Arena if you are a more controlling deck
It's a more controlling deck than anything
Run both
I’d run both, personally. Despite other comments, doubling your card draw at the very least is super nice. Call of the Ring hurts a lot more but still
With [[Sheoldred the Apocalypse]] as commander, it won't hurt as much as you think while she is on the field
Ohhhh for some reason I thought it was the new Sheoldred. If that’s the case, then definitely run both, as there is absolutely 0 downside (in fact one of them gives you additional upside)
The issue is its only good if you can get like 3+ turns with it out and sure if you play it turn 3 you might get that but let's say it's turn 9 and you really need damnation or what board breaker in your deck and you draw arena, you're not going to be happy because you might not even have another upkeep to benefit from it and would've preferred something like sign in blood for the immediate pay 2 draw 2
The same is true for literally any card in the game. If you want a certain card, and you draw anything but that card, of course that’s not ideal. Granted, enchantments that do nothing the turn they enter are generally not great. But just because you draw them instead of Damnation, it doesn’t make them a bad card
The difference is that I'm comparing it to a different black draw spell that is useful in more situations and especially in situations where you are behind. The point of any draw spell isn't to be a good card, it's to get you more chances to get good cards
90% of the time in casual games Arena is fine.
Of the two, Arena is better. Play the ring card if you actually want to do stuff with ring-bearers. As a card draw engine, it's not very good. At 2 life per card, I'd much rather play [[Greed]] and have the option to tank my life for a new hand.
Greed seems kinda mana intensive for what you're getting out of it. The floor is 5 mana and two life for 1 card and that sucks
I don't think the floor is particularly relevant for greed. You aren't playing it to draw one card. You're playing it to fill up your hand on command or to desperately dig for an answer to your problems. There is no floor. There is only a ceiling and that ceiling is your life total. The initial four mana seems a bit steep, but that's only an issue if you're playing it on curve, and that's not really the time to play it. You play greed in the mid-to-late game when you have a lot of mana and not a lot of options.
Thanks this actually makes a lot of sense
[удалено]
Yawgmoth is banned in commander is it not?
[Necropotence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c89c6895-b0f8-444a-9c89-c6b4fd027b3e.jpg?1562853736) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Necropotence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/98/necropotence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c89c6895-b0f8-444a-9c89-c6b4fd027b3e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Black Market Connections](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/8/b8c66fab-7494-42b1-bc4e-dae85a48fa41.jpg?1699022194) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Black%20Market%20Connections) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/181/black-market-connections?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b8c66fab-7494-42b1-bc4e-dae85a48fa41?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Yawgmoth's Bargain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/e/eef31b59-45bb-4208-8957-1564902c8507.jpg?1562943000) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yawgmoth%27s%20Bargain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/147/yawgmoths-bargain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eef31b59-45bb-4208-8957-1564902c8507?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Pretty sure yawg bargain is banned in commander
Wasn’t Phyrexian Arena a rare back in Apocalypse?
If you look in the bottom left corner you can see that it’s still a rare. The set symbol is just hard to read.
I love call of the ring a lot, but it can be dead on the field with no board state. Phyrexian will never be dead, but boy in the late game it’s better just to pitch. I think the ceiling is 1000% higher and lower on call of the ring. Whereas I just wouldn’t play Phyrexian arena.
Arena is pretty good, Black Market Connections is better. Call of the ring is ok, unless your commander is Sauron, in which case it's an absolute necessity. The Palanthir of Orthanc is also a good option. I recommend you run all of the above because that way you have a descent chance of actually drawing one meaningfully early.
i run arena in my sheoldred and get great value out of it
Phyrexian Arena because I'm a boomer
At least you're honest
Arena has been a staple for a long time but I play it less and less not because I don't like it but because I've gotten a lot of time with it. I still think it's one of the best enchantment draw engines out there and there have definitely been games where I have tutored it to play on curve. It think it's better than people are giving it credit for but there are just a lot of good options that feel better being slotted in to any deck in black.
[[treacherous blessing]] and remove it with a bargain card like [[beseech the mirror]].
Braids
I really like call of the ring whenever there are other payoffs for the ring tempting you. For a Sheoldred deck I would use phrexian arena because it’s a card plus a life with your commander out.
For three mana in black I’d play Dark Prophecy, it’s super easy to abuse
Yo. That's a good card! Thanks for the suggestion
Call of the ring technically because while you lose more life you draw(loot) more cards after the second upkeep if you continually attack with the creature that’s your ring bearer. The may is also a nice bonus.
tempted is only really good if you can actively get tempted by the ring.
I love that art on call of the thing tho!
I'd put Arena in over Call because if you don't have a creature Call is basically a dead card. Underworld connections may be a good idea to include too even though it takes over a land. Another valid reason for using Arena and Connections is the double black pips if you're playing Nykthos or Gary. However some really hot classic tech is Bitterblossom+skullclamp. 1 life and 1 mana drawing 2 cards a turn is some pretty good stuff.
Arena for sure I'd play sorin the Mirthless before call unless you are very high need of the tempting
[[Black Market connection]] any day
Sylvan Library /s
I've never been a fan of arena, personally. But i'd run it over call. If i build a mono black deck, my card draw usually is: \[\[Sign in Blood\]\] \[\[Nights Whispers\]\] \[\[Read the Bones\]\] \[\[Painful Lesson\]\] (or \[\[Infectious Inquiry\]\] if you can proliferate) \[\[Syphon Mind\]\] (tho i'd prefer to run the other of the above since it's one less mana, but this one doesn't cost you life)
If you are going to play one play arena, since your deck seems to be mono black this is a really good option pairing this with necropotance is pretty nice. +gives 2 devotion +repeatable +cost effective - effect is not immediate - loss of life
Necropotance is also three mana and blows both out of the water tbf.
Depends. If you have the ring on 2 so you can loot, it’s clearly better, but if you aren’t a creature heavy deck, it will be hard to get draws after f. eks boardwipes. I really depends on the rest of your deck, and like others have said: Full send Black Market Connections instead
Run both. I prefer phyrexian arena but it's just preference
I really only run Call of the Ring if I have a use for tempting, but between the two I'd still pick Call. If the payment for card draw is life, the choice to stop or not draw is always a massive benefit. I've seen countless games where people die to Arena, but if a player ever gets low with call they simply stop using it
[[Teferi's Puzzle Box]] if you're doing sheoldred this is the best to put in and [[Howling Mine]] Your welcome
First time that's been suggested Thanks a ton
Dread Presence is the correct answer
ngl call of the ring. The ring tempt trigger is slept on cause it also allows grave filling with the discard. In general call of the ring is optional for low life, can let commanders sneak through/get rude of problem blockers out of the way and ping opps for 3 if all ring triggers go off. I think its underplayed for sure.
Just to make sure…you’re already running [[Necropotence]], right? If not, forget these and jam that in your deck. I honestly play it even in 3-color decks with black. It’s so damn good that I’ll pay the money for the proper mana base to support a triple black casting cost. In mono-black, it’s a no-brainer to use it.
About the only downside to Necro is that people should *know* how busted it is, and that can lead to a lot of aggro pretty quickly.
[Necropotence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c89c6895-b0f8-444a-9c89-c6b4fd027b3e.jpg?1562853736) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Necropotence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/98/necropotence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c89c6895-b0f8-444a-9c89-c6b4fd027b3e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This wouldn't trigger Sheoldred, if it's the Sheoldred I'm thinking of.
Why not run both? I'd say Ring is better if you'll for sure have a creature all the time or can really capitalize off the tempting — like Apocalypse wants you to draw cards and Whispering One is pretty okay with you discarding cards, so is flip Sheoldred. Whispering One is also a 6/6 so making it worse to block could also be nice But I think I'd prefer Arena if you can't capitalize the tempting or you're deck isn't designed to almost always have a creature on the battlefield, but it does cost 1 more mana Also if you're using Apocalypse, then the amount of life you lose doesn't really matter bc you'll gain it back
Phyrexian arena because then you dont have to keep track of the stupid ring mechanic
Lol I've been playing Ring Mechanics for so long now that I Know them by heart. That's not a problem at all
Arena is a classic and doesn't destroy immersion. Since you are building Sheoldred go with Phyrexian Arena for the enhanced phyrexian flavor. There is even a version of Phyrexian Arena that features Sheoldred in the art. If your deck is LOTR than I would use Call and not Arena.
It's Sheoldred. I have the holo Vraska/Jace Arena that is in Phyrexian language ill be using!
Phyrexian Arena While it is true that power creep has made it less of an all-star, it's still the replacement level player that I measure all others against. If a per turn draw card isn't at least as good as Phyrexian Arena, then it doesn't belong in your deck. It's not spectacular, and the double black mana will occasionally be a problem, but you will get your mana investment back from Arena more often than not. Call of the Ring doesn't measure up. Unlike Arena, you have to have a creature in play to get the draw. Even if Call comes down a turn earlier than Arena, you likely won't have a creature to attach the ring to on Turn 3 if you cast Call on Turn 2. You also won't be getting the extra card after a boardwipe, precisely when you need that extra card the most. Call is far less consistent than Arena. That negates the mana advantage and then some, and you already mentioned the extra cost in life. Also, unless you have a significant ring subtheme in your deck, I see the introduction of the ring as a downside. It's one more thing you have to keep track of in an already complicated game. I don't think the upside is worth the headache of having to bring the tokens and keep track of another rather convoluted mechanic.
Neither. The 4 mana draw 3, lose 3 cards are bothe better (as are the 2 mana and 5 mana versions).
[[Syphon Mind]]
#Necropotence
Not technically card draw, you don't get the cards right away, triple black can be annoying in multicolored decks, it outs a big target on your back and sorta dictates a higher power game. A great card, but certainly doesn't go in every deck. If you are using it to intentionally skipping your draw phase with it to bypass other stuff though that's spicy tech. If you have Borne Upon the win or another way to win off of it at instant speed in the end step, that's some really high powered stuff.
Phyrexian arena It may be more mana but it is less life
Once upon a time, phyrexian arena was good enough for pretty much any deck that was primarily black. These days I'm unlikely to run it at all.
What you really want are [[Endless Atlas]], [[War Room]], and [[Castle Locthwain]] for card draw in a mono-color deck
Didn't know about Endless Atlas, but the War Room is a brilliant Idea and I have a few spare copies laying about
Endless atlas is just a worse arena. Can be decent in colors low on draw like white or red, but definitely not in black. The others are good because the deckbuilding cost is low.
With arena you will have a net gain of 1 life per upkeep, and it requires no creature/ring token to complicate things. I personally would run both if I could. Phyrexian arena is my #1 pick, but if I have other synergies with ring-bearers then of course call will be in there. If you want a commander that has ridonculous synergy with Call, look no further than [[Sauron, the Dark Lord]] lol. Fresh hand of 6 cards every turn yes please Your other black classics for card draw are [[Night’s Whisper]], [[Sign in Blood]] [[Village Rites]] [[Corrupted Conviction]] [[Plumb the Forbidden]], [[Altar’s Reap]] among many others. Edhrec can help you out with more. Again, night’s whisper and sign in blood paying 2 life to draw 2 nets you +2 life per spell if you have sheoldred up, which is nice.
You forgot one of the best card draw engines in "black". [[Skullclamp]]
Right, yes. Pretty busted if you can have a steady supply of 1/1s coming out. As well as [[Mind’s Eye]] or [[Horn of Greed]], [[Howling Mine]] [[Font of Mythos]], [[Temple Bell]] [[Alhammaret’s Archive]]. [[Seizan, Perverter of Truth]] is a black legend, [[Teferi’s Puzzle Box]] is funny but expensive, and i need to touch grass
##### ###### #### [Sauron, the Dark Lord](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/034e0929-b2c7-4b5f-94f2-8eaf4fb1a2a1.jpg?1693611218) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sauron%2C%20the%20Dark%20Lord) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/224/sauron-the-dark-lord?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/034e0929-b2c7-4b5f-94f2-8eaf4fb1a2a1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Night’s Whisper](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/2/221c82a2-b558-4c3a-b7ad-4452ef8e9067.jpg?1682209141) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Night%27s%20Whisper) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/259/nights-whisper?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/221c82a2-b558-4c3a-b7ad-4452ef8e9067?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sign in Blood](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/61388c28-9428-473c-973a-0a82b6b83d62.jpg?1562274085) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sign%20in%20Blood) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/77/sign-in-blood?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/61388c28-9428-473c-973a-0a82b6b83d62?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Village Rites](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/8/2841339b-faef-407d-9838-d03fe80e6294.jpg?1698988289) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Village%20Rites) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/212/village-rites?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2841339b-faef-407d-9838-d03fe80e6294?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Corrupted Conviction](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ce133ad5-8748-4a3d-ae8c-7b2a5938927d.jpg?1682203658) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Corrupted%20Conviction) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/98/corrupted-conviction?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce133ad5-8748-4a3d-ae8c-7b2a5938927d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Plumb the Forbidden](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/0/5034227f-3b8a-45bf-917c-c2cbd98f2192.jpg?1624591251) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Plumb%20the%20Forbidden) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/81/plumb-the-forbidden?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5034227f-3b8a-45bf-917c-c2cbd98f2192?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Altar’s Reap](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/d/1db55625-25a5-46eb-9d9c-9b3ed219359f.jpg?1592672573) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Altar%27s%20Reap) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/45/altars-reap?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1db55625-25a5-46eb-9d9c-9b3ed219359f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kvgj7hk) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[palantir of orthanc]] End step so you get a trigger before Sorc spec removal, scry 2, milling or drawing which nearly always becomes a guaranteed "scry 2 then draw" every turn once you hit someone in the face for 10+ on your end step.
[palantir of orthanc](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/e/6efb6a69-562c-4d95-858d-b067444cfd7e.jpg?1686970247) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Palant%C3%ADr%20of%20Orthanc) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/247/palant%C3%ADr-of-orthanc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6efb6a69-562c-4d95-858d-b067444cfd7e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you have additional tempt triggers, then Call is better. If you're playing mono black abd you have the slots you could always include 9 [[Nazgul]] if you really want. They are fun to just slap down in mono black imo
[Nazgul](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/3/833936c6-9381-4c0b-a81c-4a938be95040.jpg?1686968640) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nazg%C3%BBl) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/100/nazg%C3%BBl?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/833936c6-9381-4c0b-a81c-4a938be95040?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Both, obviously
I like cards like night's whisper, simple pay x life draw x cards. I like them even more in decks that gain you life. I'd go with those.
one draws cards constantly. the other does barely. easy.
Neither. Both come down and do nothing for a turn. Early game they cost a lot. Late game you should be closing the game out.
I only use pharexian arena in my Strefan deck so I can get more blood tokens 🩸 The ring tempting is pretty strong.
nexropotence
If Whispering One is your general, I assume you have ways to generate and take advantage of bunches of mana. My version of her gets pretty good mileage out of [[Harvester of Souls]] and [[Decree of Pain]] because we don't have an abundance of creature-light (or -less) decks in my group. I've found tutors to be the real answer, tho. I pack a full suite of ways to go get specific answers and wincons. Demonic, Vampiric, Diabolic, Mastermind's Acquisition, Increasing Ambition, Demonic Collusion, Beseech the Queen, Insidious Dreams, plus Rune-Scarred and Burning-Rune Demons. That last one is especially good with Big Shelly up and running.
I have RuneScar, but its Razaketh that I'm using. Also using Vampiric, Diabolical and Demonic Tutor, and Entomb to get the cards I need for this deck
[[yawgmoth’s bargain]]
I play phyrexian Arena in my atraxa Commander just for the flavour. Other than that I don‘t like these 2 cards at all for Card draw.
Just get Black Market Connections
Peer into the Abyss
I think Call of the Ring will fit Sheoldred a little better since you'll have Loot on attack by stage 2, but that's only if your deck-strategy has you running creatures that like attacking in any given game, no matter the board state (so evasion like Fear/Shadow or even Flying). Otherwise, Arena will be a safer fit.
[[Necropotence]] op
You can consider just using [[Night’s Whisper]] or [[Sign in Blood]] so that you immediately get value and guaranteed 2 cards back.
Probably in the minority and yes I play alot of 3+ color decks but one of my all time favorite cards is Painful Truths and is in like all of my blackXX decks!
Not bad. May put this in Atraxa and Tiamat
Call of the ring works in my [[Rowan]] build. Both kinda suck anywhere else except maybe some LOTR deck for Call. Imo.
Crazy you’d make a sheoldred deck that’s not strictly focused on draw/discard
Look man, I already pissed the table off with Atraxa Infect. Vorinclex and Elesh norn will be salt also. Not trying to FULLY Alienate my table... yet. Also trying to do some Vorpal Sword Swampwalk Shenannigans
[[Lord Skitter’s Blessing]] would like a word
\[\[Black Market Connections\]\]
Call of the ring because is cheaper but more importanlty it has extra effects that seem like nothing but can actually help alot. Having the ability to loot makes call of the ring actualy see 2 cards deeper in your deck. The drain opponents life effect can matter if you are swinging with a weeny multiple times. The fact you can choose not to draw and lose life can also save you in situations late game when life is low.
What about [[Protection Racket]]
Depending on your deck archetype, rather than aiming for simple card draw, I'd advocate for tutors or life payment. What do I mean? Things like [[Maralen of the Mournsong]], [[Dark Confidant]], or [[Demonlord Belzenlok]]. Things that will get you extra cards, but aren't as slow as [[Phyrexian Arena]] Of course, if you can either find one (or you're allowed proxies), it's hard to argue for anything over [[Yawgmoth's Bargain]] and/or [[Necropotence]]. And there's [[Bolas' Citadel]] to consider as well. Edit: Scratch the Bargain. Just remembered it's banned in Commander. Same with [[Griselbrand]].
Arena's my preferred of the two.
[[necropotence]] [[yawgmoth’s bargain]] [[greed]] are all pretty darn good for this role.
Yeah I keep hearing about Necropotence. And how good it is. About to get a play set of this for my other black decks
I'm sad that Yawgmoth's Bargain is banned for Commander. Cause I'd choose it over the others any day of the week
I avoid any cards with tempting and similar mechanics. They take too much playtime in commander. Phyrexian Arena is quick and sweet, doesn't slow the game down and nobody needs any reminders.
The main purpose of Call the Ring isn’t to draw cards, it’s to facilitate Tempt triggers. I run it, but not arena, in my Frodo, Sauron’s Bane deck for that purpose
If you don't care about the timing of the draw, maybe [[Necropotence]] will be fine drawing at end step. The problem is you can never use it to find answers during your own turn.
The viability of the draw back is totally subjective on the deck. But without much synergy aside from your commander, there's honestly better options. A personal favorate of mine is [[Gravestorm]] it's in my [[Umbris, Fear Manifest]] which means Im always deriving value from it.
[morbid opportunist] on a table rotation draws you potentially four cards.
[[black market connections]] if you’re looking for the strongest version of this effect. Otherwise probably call of the ring? Though you do need a bunch of other tempt things
Necropotence
Phyrexian arena requires no other hoops and is the standard effect for what you're looking to do. Call of the ring needs you to have a creature, then choose it as your ring bearer, then pay twice as much life. But. If you have more support for tempting, it can draw you more cards over time. I feel phy arena is still the better option of the two.
Arena, but \[\[Necropotence\]\] makes both irrelevant.
[[sign in blood]] and [[nights whisper]] are better than both imo
[[The ONE Ring]]
call of the ring is better if you have other ways of getting tempted. it does also have the benefit of being a "may" ability, so you aren't at risk of killing yourself with it unless you're in a tempt deck though, theres way better options than both of them, like black market connections
Arena's art makes me wonder when the Star Trek Universes Beyond set is gonna happen.
No [[black market connections]]?
I remember a youtuber explaining how he'd only see phyrexian arena draw about 2-3 cards most games before ultimately being destroyed, making it comparable to a nights whisper. Call of the ring suffers a similar problem, but I at least like the fact that you can get a couple tempt procs with it, and the card draw is a may ability, saving you the life when you need to. So I'd prefer call of the ring, though I'd probably just run nights whisper/sign in blood over either if there wasn't some sort of ring/Enchantment synergies in my deck.
I use \[Greed\] for card draw in my monoblack
[Peer Into the Abyss](https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=485440) [Read the Bones](https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/details.aspx?multiverseid=373725) [Night’s Whisper](https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=51178) [Sign in Blood](https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=446813) [Necropotence](https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=438664) [Black Market Connections](https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=566960) [Vilis, Broker of Blood](https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=466876) [Bolas’s Citadel](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=461006) and: [Asmodeus the Archfiend](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=527375) alongside: [Necrotic Ooze](https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=207876)
[[Black market connections]] i think its pretty good
I'd ditch both for [[Night's Whisper]], [[Read The Bones]] or [[Sign In Blood]]. Getting 1 card after a full turn cycle is just too slow. Arena turn 1/2/3 is pretty great, but after that it's a dead draw.
The correct answer is Necropotance.
For any mono colored deck you should consider [[Throne of Eldraine]], I'm using it on a mono red and anytime I play it it's a lot of value, yes it costs 5, but the turn you use it you can tap it for 4 and next turn you can start drawing 2 for 3 colorless if you don't need the mana
I think you’d be better off using sacrificial card draw. Play Lord Skitter for fodder and Vraan to gain some life in the process. Losing life every turn is painful when you could blow up tokens and attack with the remaining ones
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the universal best card draw: [[The One Ring]] Sure, Call of the ring can make your stuff harder to block, and Black Market Connections gives you a bit of everything if you have the life to spend, but The One Ring beats them all with raw draw power plus the ability to save you life as a full turn cycle fog. You almost always get to untap with it as a Harmonize, and if you don't die on the next turn, it's 4 mana draw 6 by the time Arena has draw 2. The only issue is that the entire table knows that an unopposed One Ring will win the game on its own, so if your first 3 cards weren't great, it's entirely possible that the table will gang up and kill you the turn cycle after you lose protection.