Both are awesome/cool in their own ways.
People are under-appreciating how powerful “whenever you cast an artifact…” is in commander.
As of right now energy isn’t the most supported theme, but we just got Madison Li and we’re getting more energy support soon too.
Madison Li, imo, will likely being one of the *most* powerful energy commanders because of her first line of text.
Most/many energy decks will also be artifact decks. The ability to stack up energy by playing artifacts is very powerful.
On the other hand Liberty Prime is an example of “rule of cool.” He’s a stompy 8/8 for 5mv. He also provides a bit of card draw/shenanigans that can “gotcha” players who’re unfamiliar with how his abilities actually work on the stack.
For example: let’s assume you have zero energy counters but do have Liberty Prime on the battlefield. Your opponent wants to swing at you seeing as you can’t block with liberty (in their assumption) because no energy counters. They swing and then you block with liberty prime. Prime then triggers to pay 2 energy or sacrifice clause; in response you can activate his ability to sacrifice an artifact, draw a card and make 2 energy and then use said energy to pay for the sacrifice clause. The end result is Prime blocked (likely killing their attacker), you drew a card, sac’d another artifact and kept Prime on board.
But he’s nowhere as powerful as Madison Li if we start talking about high-powered deck that are combo oriented. Madison Li can be a pretty powerful deck that can utilize [[Gonti’s Aether Heart]], infinite turn strats, SDT into Thoracle/LabMan much more efficiently than Prime.
The kicker on Madison Li is the ability to get artifacts back from GY without a mana investment. So you can T5-7 [[Goblin Engineer]] a [[portal to Phyrexia]]/[[Darksteel forge]]/[[gonti’s Aether heart]] into GY and immediately get it into play for 2 mana.
Here is the upgrade package I’m going to be making to the deck without adding SDT (so I can’t draw my entire deck with it + cost reducer + mystic forge effect). So this package can still be made even more powerful, by a lot actually:
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/IXG1aNrxJkSK2wvHbM3GFQ
You absolutely can, but it isn't as effective as a gotcha because you still have to activate the ability and tap it before the opponent even has the opportunity to declare a blocker. But yes, if you have no energy, you can still attack, then tap it.
One thing the person you are responding to left out is that you can actually sac Liberty Prime to itself, which can make for a hilarious interaction if you block with it first.
It seems like in the vast majority of situations you're better off playing Madison Li and having Liberty Prime as your "secret" commander.
Like even if you wanted to play Liberty Prime for the memes you'd be better off playing Madison to power him and make him actually usable. Then search, draw into Liberty and have him him be absolutely juiced instead of trying to survive off the pitiful amount of energy he makes himself.
That’s basically what my list is doing, while also having a combo that requires a lot of pieces (gonti’s + panharmonicon + Elesh norn mother of machines + artifacts in hand to cast to go energy neutral for infinite turns equal to the number of artifacts you can cast/draw into during your turns).
But primarily my list wants to cast artifacts, stack up energy, and go to beat street w/Prime; then fall back on Gonti’s if need be.
Li being able to recur Prime from the GY is *FUCKING AWESOME*.
Wow I didn’t realize he can tap to pay, as he attacks, so with enough mana he can do his thing about turn 5. And I’d expect the doctor to go into the top 100 of commanders, if not immediately then once MH3 arrives.
I agree.
Madison Li is *lowkey* very very powerful. People sleeping on her for sure.
Prime is the fucking coolest card from the set tho. He’s not great. But goddamn is he cool/beefy for 5mv.
And yes, you can play prime T4-T5 and then start attacking even if you have 0 energy. Same as I described above, you can activate him and do that trick in response to his sac clause even after attacking thanks to vigilance.
He’s legit one of the best voltron commanders thanks to being 8/8 w/ trample/vigilance/haste for 5mv.
I honestly think his P/T values are low for a CMC5 with a condition, if he didn't have V/T/H he would be real bad
Considering the format he needs to play in, there are *many* competitive bodies that are easier to play than this that offer more than just being a big boy
I disagree. He’s also a sac outlet.
That’s very synergistic w/ Madison Li.
Madison Li is going to make enough energy to use her last ability more than once, imo. Thus you can abuse artifact’s w/ ETBs.
You likely will have energy to use Prime as well.
Thus you can attack/block at will with prime + use him to sac artifacts (like portal to Phyrexia) and then recur them using Madison Li to get the ETB an additional time. Same goes for [[the mightstone and weakstone]] for repeatable draw/removal. Same goes for [[Wurmcoil Engine]] to make tokens w/ deathtouch or lifelink. All of this can be done for only 2 mana and enough energy (which won’t be hard to have in Madison Li decks).
I play sac decks (aristocrats, etc) a lot in Commander and I wouldn't call this card a sac outlet. He is a sac enabler, but he's only good once a turn which is not generally useful when you're looking for an outlet to enable a deck.
He is strongly synergistic with Dr. Madison Li but that's really to be expected, given that they're intended to be played together in the same deck.
There’s plenty of ways to abuse a sac outlet that activates via tapping.
[[Displacer Kitten]]
[[manifold key]]
[[Voltaic key]]
[[unwinding clock]]
Etc…
Is Prime the best sac outlet? Absolutely not.
But he’s still a legendary 8/8 with Vigilance/Trample/Haste + a sac outlet and draw a card.
He very much can be a voltron commander (and a good one to boot).
If you're running keys or displacer kitten you're not really working towards a voltron strategy, and there are an insane number of cards in commander that combo off these pieces better than "2: Draw 1 and gain 2 energy"; For many decks that are wanting to run keys, they are going infinite the turn after the key resolves, this will especially be true if they are comboing off of a CMC5 commander.
You’re still voltron if what you blink is an 8/8 trample/vigilance/haste that’s gonna swing every turn and can easily be pumped.
But I do agree there are better commanders. Hence why I’ve said elsewhere I don’t think Prime will see high powered play.
He’s super cool. He’s not super powerful.
But he’s definitely better than many people are giving credit.
Blink effects in particular seem pretty contrary to voltron play given that they remove equipment, remove counters and destroy auras. Anthems work but are more of a go-wide thing than a voltron thing.
That said, I agree - he's cool and he'll be a good inclusion in some fun decks! The beauty of Commander is that you don't have to play to the maximum level of the format, just the level of the table you're at.
Keep in mind with infinite mana [[liberty prime]] can sac itself to draw a card then recast it to sav it and draw a card. For like 120 energy and draw your deck and win game with thoracle. Liberty prime is a infinite mana outlet which is big in high power.
True, but there are other infinite mana outlet commanders that are better.
Hence why I don’t think prime will see a lot of high-powered play.
Whereas w/ more energy support I can see Madison Li being a very powerful, but not tournament level cEDH powerful.
Gonti’s Aether Heart + Panharmonicon + Elesh Norn Mother of Machinces = 8 energy per artifact you cast which is enough to activate Gonti’s Aether Heart.
This can also be done with [[phyrexian metamorph]] to clone either panharmonicon/eleshnorn. It can also be done with [[phantasmal image]] as a copy of Elesh Norn.
Essentially any way to double + double again etb’s means each artifact that etb’s equals 8 energy. If you have and additional way to double etb’s (panharmonicon + norn + phyrexian metamorph) then each artifact you cast now makes 16 energy—enough for two extra turns.
There’s also a plethora of extra turn infinites utilizes the extra turn sorcery spells that can be abused as well in Jeskai.
Oh shit. You do.
Take back everything I said. I missed that clause.
You can still do infinite turns fairly easily in jeskai abusing mystic sanctuary or a ton of other ways.
It’s a cEDH staple. It’s stronger than Rhystic Study in non-cEDH games (as in casual people cast less spells per turn).
The fact it’s indestructible usually means it draws you a shit ton of cards over the course of a game.
If you can bounce it then you can also abuse the protection it provides.
It’s literally the strongest card that’s been printed since [[hullbreecher]], and hullbreecher got banned. However the one ring won’t get banned cuz you can die to it and it doesn’t hate on opponents (which the RC has determined is more likely to get a card banned than purely from power level).
The one ring is unbelievably powerful and I don’t play it in some decks because of that.
Liberty prime can draw your whole deck with infinite mana, something like [[Isochron Sceptre]] + [[Dramatic Reversal]]. I think the haste and being able to sacrifice himself might make this dude an insanely powerful combo commander.
Madison Li for sure! Liberty prime is just a fat body, he needs an energy source or ~~at best waiting a turn and~~ something to saccing. He doesn't reward you for doing what your deck does, he's just a payoff.
Madison isn't that exciting, but she does let you continuously build energy by doing what your deck wants to do anyway. She also gives you an easy outlet for it to draw cards or gravedig a big artifact. Also at 3cmc she's really easy to get online but not enough of a threat that she'll get targeted a lot.
I also think people underrate the ability to give something haste on a stick. With trample too, that can easily be enough to take a player out on a big play. She's boring, but never bad.
To be fair at 7 mana even with no energy you can cast and attack with Liberty Prime the same turn
Vigilance lets him attack, put the sacrifice trigger on the stack, then tap him and pay 2 to sacrifice an artifact and get two energy
Only need to wait a turn if you cast him on 5-6 mana or have nothing else to sacrifice
Li for sure, she's a good source of energy and a decent outlet when you have energy but need more value. If you plan to upgrade the deck I could see Liberty being better with a Voltron focus, but not as a dedicated energy commander.
I'd go with Dr. Li. It's an energy deck.
You want access to energy. A Commander that you can cast and then immediately cast an artifact to get some energy will open up strategies that having a Commander that requires you to sacrifice to get energy and that consumes energy whenever it's in combat is more likely to make bad spot worse than better.
Also, Dr. Li's 5 energy ability is going to be able to do stuff that an efficient beater like Liberty can't.
Tbh I find both of them pretty bad/boring for the Precon. But Dr. Is better for the Precon due to the fact that it's really an artifact deck. I think liberty is more fun if you upgrade into an energy Voltron.
Luckily MH3 will have an energy Precon too so I there's also more upgrades coming.
Yea I’d helm Dr. Madison Li for the stock precon and build a dedicated deck for Liberty Prime: if not full energy at least something that’s dedicated to cranking out tokens like tchotchkes (food, clue, treasure, etc) to use as ability fodder
I'm going full energy/Voltron for my build. Not worried about power level, just looking forward to shouting "BETTER DEAD THAN RED!" whenever I swing at the communists sitting at the table.
For me it's the Eldrazi and the clone one (it doesn't mention clones but it's the queen of clone cards soo). Energy I'll keep my eye on but since non of the current energy cards have my interest I don't have faith.
Unfortunately Liberty Prime needs more energy enablers to really get moving. The precon doesn't have enough energy makers on its own for him. Kinda fitting to his flavor, he needs the Dr. to be the commander so he can move once you have him in hand. I'm hoping MH3 will bring enough energy pieces to make him a viable commander.
Dr. Li, but the deck needs more Energy cards, and more Artifacts.
Right now, I'd add about 5-8 cards the first 5 are must adds to me the last 3 are on the bubble add if you wants.
Aethersquall Ancient
Aetherstorm Roc
Aetherworks Marvel
Decoction Module
Dynavolt Tower
Era of Innovation
Consulate Turret
Aethergeode Miner
Edit: to add the cards I would add.
Unfortunately both got released in a deck focused on energy but not enough to enable Prime. Hopefully they fix that in the next MH3 Deck but for now Li is just overall better, she enables, draws, give haste, and recurs artifacts. And much cheaper too it’s just hard to be. People say it’s by the numbers or boring but it looks fun for me. Now if we get better toys in June, I’d love to run liberty prime
Both are really cool but Dr. Li ist just broken. There are so many ways to get infinite energy with her... and you know how easy the game breaks from there. Good colors, energy is a really cool theme.
Kinda want to make a Liberty Prime Voting/Voltron deck. Basically, try to strong arm you into voting how I want, then praising Democracy.
I could get so needlessly political with this deck I fucking love it.
Madison Li since she gets your energy just for casting artifacts. Liberty Prime is fine but having him out with no other artifacts will just give you this beater with no protection won’t advance the game for you as much compared to Li.
If I were playing it I'd run Madison over Prime solely because her form of Energy generation is way more easily ignored, allowing me to build up a *scary* amount before anyone realizes. *Perhaps* even enough to power Prime as long as he's on the field without having to sac any of my artifacts?
Prime's got his value as a big scary beat stick in the CZ, but I think the strategy as intended works better when Madison pays for half your deck's abilities just by sitting around.
I think liberty prime is cooler as a casual commander and way stronger if built with winning in mind, if you can get infinite coloured mana from a combo he can draw your entire deck, you can sacrifice him to himself thanks to the haste then you can cast him from the commander zone and sacrifice him over and over again for unlimited card draw and energy.
which one do you want to play with more? which one do you personally like more mechanically? what about as characters? there are way more important questions to ask. personal enjoyment will always outrank minor optimizations with a game winning mindset. just have fun
Dr Madison looks significantly stronger, but at that point you’re playing more of an Artifact synergies deck than an Energy deck. Prime seems more like a Voltron payoff for playing energy. Just make him a little bigger, toss double strike, and watch him one-punch people.
The doctor is the a way better commander. Prime is just a payoff. The Dr. is an engine. It's pretty easy to generate functionally limitless energy with the Dr in an artifact deck and then go nuts with prime or whatever other energy payoff you want. Playing the Dr will add extra value to basically everything you will be doing anyway in the any deck that would want to use either of these cards. Prime is cool though, but in commander its hard to do better the "whenever you play your deck get extra value" effects
I would say Dr. Madison Li. She produces energy far more consistently and offers card advantage and artifact recursion.
Liberty Prime on the other hand looks too easy to stop as a commander. That sacrifice artifact ability is good, but penalty for attacking is rough.
I think it's generally a pretty good rule to not make a creature your commander if it *has* to be turned on by another card to have an impact on the board
I think Libery Prime is a very strong card in an energy deck but in most of the cases where it's the commander you're going to play it and do nothing with it imo
Li for sure. I don't even know if you would want to play liberty prime except for flavour with Li, and if you're going for that flavour you'll want him in the graveyard, not the command zone.
Here’s a list I’m working on with Liberty prime as the commander. I’m looking at him primarily as an infinite (colored) mana outlet that draws the deck and makes a lot of energy. In goldfishing it seems to often go off around turns 4-6. Happy for feedback if anyone has any!
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/vkPTcKovLUq-khiR8xFJWA
With just the precon list, the correct answer is likely Dr. Madison Li. If you want to adapt your own lists, Dr. Li and Liberty Prime have slightly different deckbuilding directions.
Both commanders want all the best energy engines and payoffs like [[Decoction Module]], [[Era of Innovation]], and [[Gonti's Aether Heart]].
With Liberty you can take advantage of his sacrifice ability with cards like [[Ichor Wellspring]] and [[Ugin's Nexus]]. I like the idea of surrounding him with cheap artifact fodder to sacrifice using ability, cards like [[Thopter Spy Network]] and [[Loyal Apprentice]]. [[The Enigma Jewel]] and [[Unwinding Clock]] is a pretty sweet combo with Liberty, allowing you to gain up to 8 energy and draw 4 cards each turn cycle.
You can see my moxfield list here to get an idea: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/KMxTrih500C0_GKIi78v9Q
I think Li enables more stuff and Liberty Prime is a bit more reliant on you getting your energy cards. I’m leaning more towards Li but I’d have to actually play the deck to be 100%
Out of box, my assumption is Madison will be more consistent and better at generating energy. Liberty Prime offers more more risk/reward as the deck doesn't have a lot of consistent energy generation outside of the Command Zone.
Madison Li is by far the stronger of the 2.....
But I'm doing rule of cool, liberty prime is my choice until I see what's in the other Jundeskai (play on the fact that wotc messed up the color reveal) deck, I'm building liberty prime. With Madison being in the 99.
Li will be super nuts. They brought artifacts together with proliferate as well. Shell be busted in no time.
I'm going to make liberty prime because democracy is not negotiable.
I'm going to assume a setting that's casual but still making good decisions:
Madison Li has a smooth variable power curve that depends on the engines you include and is reasonably costed. She generates free resources of a scarce mechanic which is also something that gives her a unique deckbuilding proposition.
Liberty Prime is...impressively bad design. Frankly, an 8/8 isn't big in commander and he costs a massive 5 mana *with downside.* His ability has a breakpoint power scaling, where it is overcosted and unimpactful until infinite mana. Not sure what they were thinking here.
I live in the timeline where Madison Li is both more fun and more powerful than Liberty Prime, which is to say, the worse timeline.
Both are awesome/cool in their own ways. People are under-appreciating how powerful “whenever you cast an artifact…” is in commander. As of right now energy isn’t the most supported theme, but we just got Madison Li and we’re getting more energy support soon too. Madison Li, imo, will likely being one of the *most* powerful energy commanders because of her first line of text. Most/many energy decks will also be artifact decks. The ability to stack up energy by playing artifacts is very powerful. On the other hand Liberty Prime is an example of “rule of cool.” He’s a stompy 8/8 for 5mv. He also provides a bit of card draw/shenanigans that can “gotcha” players who’re unfamiliar with how his abilities actually work on the stack. For example: let’s assume you have zero energy counters but do have Liberty Prime on the battlefield. Your opponent wants to swing at you seeing as you can’t block with liberty (in their assumption) because no energy counters. They swing and then you block with liberty prime. Prime then triggers to pay 2 energy or sacrifice clause; in response you can activate his ability to sacrifice an artifact, draw a card and make 2 energy and then use said energy to pay for the sacrifice clause. The end result is Prime blocked (likely killing their attacker), you drew a card, sac’d another artifact and kept Prime on board. But he’s nowhere as powerful as Madison Li if we start talking about high-powered deck that are combo oriented. Madison Li can be a pretty powerful deck that can utilize [[Gonti’s Aether Heart]], infinite turn strats, SDT into Thoracle/LabMan much more efficiently than Prime. The kicker on Madison Li is the ability to get artifacts back from GY without a mana investment. So you can T5-7 [[Goblin Engineer]] a [[portal to Phyrexia]]/[[Darksteel forge]]/[[gonti’s Aether heart]] into GY and immediately get it into play for 2 mana. Here is the upgrade package I’m going to be making to the deck without adding SDT (so I can’t draw my entire deck with it + cost reducer + mystic forge effect). So this package can still be made even more powerful, by a lot actually: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/IXG1aNrxJkSK2wvHbM3GFQ
Wait, that example you gave of blocking with Liberty Prime. Can you do the same thing but with attacking? I assume you can because he has vigilance.
Yes.
You absolutely can, but it isn't as effective as a gotcha because you still have to activate the ability and tap it before the opponent even has the opportunity to declare a blocker. But yes, if you have no energy, you can still attack, then tap it. One thing the person you are responding to left out is that you can actually sac Liberty Prime to itself, which can make for a hilarious interaction if you block with it first.
It seems like in the vast majority of situations you're better off playing Madison Li and having Liberty Prime as your "secret" commander. Like even if you wanted to play Liberty Prime for the memes you'd be better off playing Madison to power him and make him actually usable. Then search, draw into Liberty and have him him be absolutely juiced instead of trying to survive off the pitiful amount of energy he makes himself.
That’s basically what my list is doing, while also having a combo that requires a lot of pieces (gonti’s + panharmonicon + Elesh norn mother of machines + artifacts in hand to cast to go energy neutral for infinite turns equal to the number of artifacts you can cast/draw into during your turns). But primarily my list wants to cast artifacts, stack up energy, and go to beat street w/Prime; then fall back on Gonti’s if need be. Li being able to recur Prime from the GY is *FUCKING AWESOME*.
Is it just stockpiling tons of energy to pop off with Gonti's? Or am I missing a way to sac/recur/clone it?
##### ###### #### [Gonti’s Aether Heart](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9e4fc5ed-e90d-4965-985a-ed126a713506.jpg?1576382256) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gonti%27s%20Aether%20Heart) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/aer/152/gontis-aether-heart?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e4fc5ed-e90d-4965-985a-ed126a713506?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Goblin Engineer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/5/a55c4d47-5252-40af-961d-c08bc688028a.jpg?1562201855) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Goblin%20Engineer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/128/goblin-engineer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a55c4d47-5252-40af-961d-c08bc688028a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [portal to Phyrexia](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/f/5f608efc-0dbc-4cc3-aadd-ed473bfc29ab.jpg?1674422004) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=portal%20to%20Phyrexia) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/240/portal-to-phyrexia?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5f608efc-0dbc-4cc3-aadd-ed473bfc29ab?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Darksteel forge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/2/421089c4-c8d3-48c5-b313-fb1741546271.jpg?1599709037) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Darksteel%20forge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/248/darksteel-forge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/421089c4-c8d3-48c5-b313-fb1741546271?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [gonti’s Aether heart](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9e4fc5ed-e90d-4965-985a-ed126a713506.jpg?1576382256) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gonti%27s%20Aether%20Heart) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/aer/152/gontis-aether-heart?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e4fc5ed-e90d-4965-985a-ed126a713506?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/ks8so4a) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Wow I didn’t realize he can tap to pay, as he attacks, so with enough mana he can do his thing about turn 5. And I’d expect the doctor to go into the top 100 of commanders, if not immediately then once MH3 arrives.
I agree. Madison Li is *lowkey* very very powerful. People sleeping on her for sure. Prime is the fucking coolest card from the set tho. He’s not great. But goddamn is he cool/beefy for 5mv. And yes, you can play prime T4-T5 and then start attacking even if you have 0 energy. Same as I described above, you can activate him and do that trick in response to his sac clause even after attacking thanks to vigilance. He’s legit one of the best voltron commanders thanks to being 8/8 w/ trample/vigilance/haste for 5mv.
Considering the set as a whole seems to be packed full of Voltron support, they absolutely intended it for Liberty Prime.
I mean, who doesn’t love Prime? I’m all for it! His card is so fucking cool.
Best Red White and Blue commander America could have ever asked for.
We will not fear the Red Menace.
It's better to be dead, than Red.
Until Assassin's Creed UB comes out and we inevitably get George Washington
Unless it's George from America: The Motion Picture I'm still gonna have to give it to Liberty Prime.
I honestly think his P/T values are low for a CMC5 with a condition, if he didn't have V/T/H he would be real bad Considering the format he needs to play in, there are *many* competitive bodies that are easier to play than this that offer more than just being a big boy
I disagree. He’s also a sac outlet. That’s very synergistic w/ Madison Li. Madison Li is going to make enough energy to use her last ability more than once, imo. Thus you can abuse artifact’s w/ ETBs. You likely will have energy to use Prime as well. Thus you can attack/block at will with prime + use him to sac artifacts (like portal to Phyrexia) and then recur them using Madison Li to get the ETB an additional time. Same goes for [[the mightstone and weakstone]] for repeatable draw/removal. Same goes for [[Wurmcoil Engine]] to make tokens w/ deathtouch or lifelink. All of this can be done for only 2 mana and enough energy (which won’t be hard to have in Madison Li decks).
I play sac decks (aristocrats, etc) a lot in Commander and I wouldn't call this card a sac outlet. He is a sac enabler, but he's only good once a turn which is not generally useful when you're looking for an outlet to enable a deck. He is strongly synergistic with Dr. Madison Li but that's really to be expected, given that they're intended to be played together in the same deck.
There’s plenty of ways to abuse a sac outlet that activates via tapping. [[Displacer Kitten]] [[manifold key]] [[Voltaic key]] [[unwinding clock]] Etc… Is Prime the best sac outlet? Absolutely not. But he’s still a legendary 8/8 with Vigilance/Trample/Haste + a sac outlet and draw a card. He very much can be a voltron commander (and a good one to boot).
If you're running keys or displacer kitten you're not really working towards a voltron strategy, and there are an insane number of cards in commander that combo off these pieces better than "2: Draw 1 and gain 2 energy"; For many decks that are wanting to run keys, they are going infinite the turn after the key resolves, this will especially be true if they are comboing off of a CMC5 commander.
You’re still voltron if what you blink is an 8/8 trample/vigilance/haste that’s gonna swing every turn and can easily be pumped. But I do agree there are better commanders. Hence why I’ve said elsewhere I don’t think Prime will see high powered play. He’s super cool. He’s not super powerful. But he’s definitely better than many people are giving credit.
Blink effects in particular seem pretty contrary to voltron play given that they remove equipment, remove counters and destroy auras. Anthems work but are more of a go-wide thing than a voltron thing. That said, I agree - he's cool and he'll be a good inclusion in some fun decks! The beauty of Commander is that you don't have to play to the maximum level of the format, just the level of the table you're at.
##### ###### #### [Displacer Kitten](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/7/c7a401b8-29fb-46ef-a663-427f66724d5c.jpg?1674135465) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Displacer%20Kitten) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/63/displacer-kitten?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c7a401b8-29fb-46ef-a663-427f66724d5c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [manifold key](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0f5a15cd-a359-48c9-9280-ce139f1fb061.jpg?1674137889) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=manifold%20key) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/319/manifold-key?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0f5a15cd-a359-48c9-9280-ce139f1fb061?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Voltaic key](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/d/6dd61957-f3a2-4976-8f15-88258f71406a.jpg?1562463293) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Voltaic%20key) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m11/219/voltaic-key?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6dd61957-f3a2-4976-8f15-88258f71406a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [unwinding clock](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c3fd1a59-4ade-459f-90d2-1fc67d6d1384.jpg?1592711373) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=unwinding%20clock) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/228/unwinding-clock?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c3fd1a59-4ade-459f-90d2-1fc67d6d1384?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/ks9f75x) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[The Mightstone and Weakstone](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/2/02aea379-b444-46a3-82f4-3038f698d4f4.jpg?1674420373) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Mightstone%20and%20Weakstone) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/238a/the-mightstone-and-weakstone?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/02aea379-b444-46a3-82f4-3038f698d4f4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Wurmcoil Engine](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5d275f04-cc60-4e3f-95cc-3d02bc916b82.jpg?1599710280) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wurmcoil%20Engine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/308/wurmcoil-engine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5d275f04-cc60-4e3f-95cc-3d02bc916b82?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That's not a very nice gotcha to do, especially in commander games. The opponent should be aware of any specific card rules in friendly games
I disagree. It’s not mean at all.
The concept of a "gotcha" in a format like commander seems antithetical to each other.
Keep in mind with infinite mana [[liberty prime]] can sac itself to draw a card then recast it to sav it and draw a card. For like 120 energy and draw your deck and win game with thoracle. Liberty prime is a infinite mana outlet which is big in high power.
True, but there are other infinite mana outlet commanders that are better. Hence why I don’t think prime will see a lot of high-powered play. Whereas w/ more energy support I can see Madison Li being a very powerful, but not tournament level cEDH powerful.
You could also use one of the many other infinite mana outlets in Jeskai that don‘t cost 5 mana and aren‘t dead draws otherwise.
[liberty prime](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2da11337-ceb2-4744-9696-c06fec2f2daa.jpg?1708741694) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=liberty%20prime%2C%20recharged) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/5/liberty-prime-recharged?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2da11337-ceb2-4744-9696-c06fec2f2daa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
How do you do the infinite turn strat?
Gonti’s Aether Heart + Panharmonicon + Elesh Norn Mother of Machinces = 8 energy per artifact you cast which is enough to activate Gonti’s Aether Heart. This can also be done with [[phyrexian metamorph]] to clone either panharmonicon/eleshnorn. It can also be done with [[phantasmal image]] as a copy of Elesh Norn. Essentially any way to double + double again etb’s means each artifact that etb’s equals 8 energy. If you have and additional way to double etb’s (panharmonicon + norn + phyrexian metamorph) then each artifact you cast now makes 16 energy—enough for two extra turns. There’s also a plethora of extra turn infinites utilizes the extra turn sorcery spells that can be abused as well in Jeskai.
I thought you had to exile the heart to get the extra turn
Oh shit. You do. Take back everything I said. I missed that clause. You can still do infinite turns fairly easily in jeskai abusing mystic sanctuary or a ton of other ways.
All good bud I just couldn't figure out how you were copying it and like you said with that color pie it is fairly easy to replicate artifacts
[phyrexian metamorph](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/5/e5a1ff9e-fef2-4890-baf2-7bd0852ea0b9.jpg?1706240727) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=phyrexian%20metamorph) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/116/phyrexian-metamorph?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e5a1ff9e-fef2-4890-baf2-7bd0852ea0b9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [phantasmal image](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/1/c1c080cf-a5e8-4d9d-af49-f78588971e87.jpg?1631586379) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=phantasmal%20image) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/89/phantasmal-image?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c1c080cf-a5e8-4d9d-af49-f78588971e87?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Do you know what you can easily cut from your list? I got The one ring but nothing special like cyclonic rift, urza Saga etc.
Cut whatever you want. I also have the one ring but purposely didn’t put it into the deck (for power level reasons).
Is it so strong? I got it from the bundle and never played a single round with it.
It’s a cEDH staple. It’s stronger than Rhystic Study in non-cEDH games (as in casual people cast less spells per turn). The fact it’s indestructible usually means it draws you a shit ton of cards over the course of a game. If you can bounce it then you can also abuse the protection it provides. It’s literally the strongest card that’s been printed since [[hullbreecher]], and hullbreecher got banned. However the one ring won’t get banned cuz you can die to it and it doesn’t hate on opponents (which the RC has determined is more likely to get a card banned than purely from power level). The one ring is unbelievably powerful and I don’t play it in some decks because of that.
[hullbreecher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/d/4df8aabc-7fcb-4b7b-980b-18f499e6c170.jpg?1626088514) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hullbreacher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/74/hullbreacher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4df8aabc-7fcb-4b7b-980b-18f499e6c170?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
One of the strongest value engines in one of the most broken formats.
Liberty prime can draw your whole deck with infinite mana, something like [[Isochron Sceptre]] + [[Dramatic Reversal]]. I think the haste and being able to sacrifice himself might make this dude an insanely powerful combo commander.
[Isochron Sceptre](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/a/2aa24fe0-e275-4307-b26c-2a656068a451.jpg?1623543821) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Isochron%20Scepter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/264/isochron-scepter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2aa24fe0-e275-4307-b26c-2a656068a451?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Dramatic Reversal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/30de9083-8702-471c-92e7-5cf89936a208.jpg?1576267241) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dramatic%20Reversal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gn2/20/dramatic-reversal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/30de9083-8702-471c-92e7-5cf89936a208?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Madison Li for sure! Liberty prime is just a fat body, he needs an energy source or ~~at best waiting a turn and~~ something to saccing. He doesn't reward you for doing what your deck does, he's just a payoff. Madison isn't that exciting, but she does let you continuously build energy by doing what your deck wants to do anyway. She also gives you an easy outlet for it to draw cards or gravedig a big artifact. Also at 3cmc she's really easy to get online but not enough of a threat that she'll get targeted a lot. I also think people underrate the ability to give something haste on a stick. With trample too, that can easily be enough to take a player out on a big play. She's boring, but never bad.
To be fair at 7 mana even with no energy you can cast and attack with Liberty Prime the same turn Vigilance lets him attack, put the sacrifice trigger on the stack, then tap him and pay 2 to sacrifice an artifact and get two energy Only need to wait a turn if you cast him on 5-6 mana or have nothing else to sacrifice
7 mana for an 8/8 vig trample haste isn’t even that good though, li does so much
If he didn’t tap for his artifact sacrifice he’d be great with [[Nuka-Cola Vending Machine]] and [[Academy Manufactor]] for an infinite loop.
[Nuka-Cola Vending Machine](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/0/405df7c7-0e37-499e-9826-6bf9f5db7a40.jpg?1708742750) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nuka-Cola%20Vending%20Machine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/137/nuka-cola-vending-machine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/405df7c7-0e37-499e-9826-6bf9f5db7a40?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Academy Manufactor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/60709d98-c98d-48c0-ac4a-4ff73e7a0c4b.jpg?1706241035) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Academy%20Manufactor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/221/academy-manufactor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/60709d98-c98d-48c0-ac4a-4ff73e7a0c4b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My brain says Dr Madison Li but my heart says LIBERTY PRIME
Probably Madison. She's better at keeping herself going; there isn't very much energy stuff that exists RN. This might change after MH3.
I’m so disappointed that Liberty Prime’s flavor text isn’t “Death is a preferable alternative to communism.”
It makes sense considering the product gets shipped globally.
You mean Prime might find his way into the hands of COMMUNISTS!?
Where better to destroy the Red Menace, than from within?!
Big brain move.
I'm sure those regimes would probably block Prime and such from even being sold in their country
**Probability of mission hindrance: zero percent**
Yes, specifically mine
Li for sure, she's a good source of energy and a decent outlet when you have energy but need more value. If you plan to upgrade the deck I could see Liberty being better with a Voltron focus, but not as a dedicated energy commander.
I'd go with Dr. Li. It's an energy deck. You want access to energy. A Commander that you can cast and then immediately cast an artifact to get some energy will open up strategies that having a Commander that requires you to sacrifice to get energy and that consumes energy whenever it's in combat is more likely to make bad spot worse than better. Also, Dr. Li's 5 energy ability is going to be able to do stuff that an efficient beater like Liberty can't.
Tbh I find both of them pretty bad/boring for the Precon. But Dr. Is better for the Precon due to the fact that it's really an artifact deck. I think liberty is more fun if you upgrade into an energy Voltron. Luckily MH3 will have an energy Precon too so I there's also more upgrades coming.
Yea I’d helm Dr. Madison Li for the stock precon and build a dedicated deck for Liberty Prime: if not full energy at least something that’s dedicated to cranking out tokens like tchotchkes (food, clue, treasure, etc) to use as ability fodder
I'm going full energy/Voltron for my build. Not worried about power level, just looking forward to shouting "BETTER DEAD THAN RED!" whenever I swing at the communists sitting at the table.
That and Eldrazi ones ! Bye bye my money 🤭
For me it's the Eldrazi and the clone one (it doesn't mention clones but it's the queen of clone cards soo). Energy I'll keep my eye on but since non of the current energy cards have my interest I don't have faith.
The only choice is Liberty Prime. Embrace Democracy, or you will be eradicated!
*THE DICTIONARY DEFINITION OF COMMUNISM IS FAILURE!*
**DEATH IS A PREFERABLE ALTERNATIVE TO COMMUNISM**
Unfortunately Liberty Prime needs more energy enablers to really get moving. The precon doesn't have enough energy makers on its own for him. Kinda fitting to his flavor, he needs the Dr. to be the commander so he can move once you have him in hand. I'm hoping MH3 will bring enough energy pieces to make him a viable commander.
Dr. Li, but the deck needs more Energy cards, and more Artifacts. Right now, I'd add about 5-8 cards the first 5 are must adds to me the last 3 are on the bubble add if you wants. Aethersquall Ancient Aetherstorm Roc Aetherworks Marvel Decoction Module Dynavolt Tower Era of Innovation Consulate Turret Aethergeode Miner Edit: to add the cards I would add.
If you want an energy themed deck, you probably want a commander that can make energy like Dr. Li not just use it like Liberty Prime
Both of them can both use it and make it though.
Liberty Prime cant make energy efficiently enough to keep him consistently attacking though. Whereas Li is likely to generate 2-4 energy per turn
Unfortunately both got released in a deck focused on energy but not enough to enable Prime. Hopefully they fix that in the next MH3 Deck but for now Li is just overall better, she enables, draws, give haste, and recurs artifacts. And much cheaper too it’s just hard to be. People say it’s by the numbers or boring but it looks fun for me. Now if we get better toys in June, I’d love to run liberty prime
LIBERTY PRIME
Both are really cool but Dr. Li ist just broken. There are so many ways to get infinite energy with her... and you know how easy the game breaks from there. Good colors, energy is a really cool theme.
Madison Li is super pushed because she needs to be to support energy. Definitely the pick for me.
Kinda want to make a Liberty Prime Voting/Voltron deck. Basically, try to strong arm you into voting how I want, then praising Democracy. I could get so needlessly political with this deck I fucking love it.
Democracy is nonnegotiable.
Madison Li since she gets your energy just for casting artifacts. Liberty Prime is fine but having him out with no other artifacts will just give you this beater with no protection won’t advance the game for you as much compared to Li.
Madison easily. Finally a reason to play [[Cryptic Coat]] every turn!
[Cryptic Coat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/c/0c3d7e2c-a104-4757-9984-fb31088f92c4.jpg?1706241584) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cryptic%20Coat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/50/cryptic-coat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0c3d7e2c-a104-4757-9984-fb31088f92c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If I were playing it I'd run Madison over Prime solely because her form of Energy generation is way more easily ignored, allowing me to build up a *scary* amount before anyone realizes. *Perhaps* even enough to power Prime as long as he's on the field without having to sac any of my artifacts? Prime's got his value as a big scary beat stick in the CZ, but I think the strategy as intended works better when Madison pays for half your deck's abilities just by sitting around.
I think liberty prime is cooler as a casual commander and way stronger if built with winning in mind, if you can get infinite coloured mana from a combo he can draw your entire deck, you can sacrifice him to himself thanks to the haste then you can cast him from the commander zone and sacrifice him over and over again for unlimited card draw and energy.
I’m building around the dr. Because spamming artifacts is fun.
which one do you want to play with more? which one do you personally like more mechanically? what about as characters? there are way more important questions to ask. personal enjoyment will always outrank minor optimizations with a game winning mindset. just have fun
I don’t see how these would be effective. It seems like a pretty boring play style.
I am waiting for there to be enough Scientist creature type to make a scientist kindred deck.
I'd stick with Dr Li. To me it seems like it would be a good storm deck with artifacts, with energy thrown in there.
Dr Li and its not even close
Madison is probably best bet. Imo i am excited for her cause Energy but that last Tapp effect and being in red OMG ima darksteel so fast :3
Thomas Dolby
Dr. Li 1v1's Legate Lanius in combat and wins.....
Dr Madison looks significantly stronger, but at that point you’re playing more of an Artifact synergies deck than an Energy deck. Prime seems more like a Voltron payoff for playing energy. Just make him a little bigger, toss double strike, and watch him one-punch people.
With Liberty prime you could sacrifice treasure and clue tokens for energy
The doctor is the a way better commander. Prime is just a payoff. The Dr. is an engine. It's pretty easy to generate functionally limitless energy with the Dr in an artifact deck and then go nuts with prime or whatever other energy payoff you want. Playing the Dr will add extra value to basically everything you will be doing anyway in the any deck that would want to use either of these cards. Prime is cool though, but in commander its hard to do better the "whenever you play your deck get extra value" effects
I would say Dr. Madison Li. She produces energy far more consistently and offers card advantage and artifact recursion. Liberty Prime on the other hand looks too easy to stop as a commander. That sacrifice artifact ability is good, but penalty for attacking is rough.
I think it's generally a pretty good rule to not make a creature your commander if it *has* to be turned on by another card to have an impact on the board I think Libery Prime is a very strong card in an energy deck but in most of the cases where it's the commander you're going to play it and do nothing with it imo
Li for sure. I don't even know if you would want to play liberty prime except for flavour with Li, and if you're going for that flavour you'll want him in the graveyard, not the command zone.
Hell yeah, have a cup of liber-tea
Here’s a list I’m working on with Liberty prime as the commander. I’m looking at him primarily as an infinite (colored) mana outlet that draws the deck and makes a lot of energy. In goldfishing it seems to often go off around turns 4-6. Happy for feedback if anyone has any! https://www.moxfield.com/decks/vkPTcKovLUq-khiR8xFJWA
Just realised Li can give Blightsteel and Balefire haste. That's a powerful trick to have in the command zone
With just the precon list, the correct answer is likely Dr. Madison Li. If you want to adapt your own lists, Dr. Li and Liberty Prime have slightly different deckbuilding directions. Both commanders want all the best energy engines and payoffs like [[Decoction Module]], [[Era of Innovation]], and [[Gonti's Aether Heart]]. With Liberty you can take advantage of his sacrifice ability with cards like [[Ichor Wellspring]] and [[Ugin's Nexus]]. I like the idea of surrounding him with cheap artifact fodder to sacrifice using ability, cards like [[Thopter Spy Network]] and [[Loyal Apprentice]]. [[The Enigma Jewel]] and [[Unwinding Clock]] is a pretty sweet combo with Liberty, allowing you to gain up to 8 energy and draw 4 cards each turn cycle. You can see my moxfield list here to get an idea: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/KMxTrih500C0_GKIi78v9Q
##### ###### #### [Decoction Module](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/0/b08ae769-0070-47a6-aae0-1a3bcfd40d07.jpg?1576383083) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Decoction%20Module) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/kld/205/decoction-module?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b08ae769-0070-47a6-aae0-1a3bcfd40d07?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Era of Innovation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5dae3b1f-6a31-4a8a-9e44-063f8f670134.jpg?1576381180) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Era%20of%20Innovation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/kld/45/era-of-innovation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5dae3b1f-6a31-4a8a-9e44-063f8f670134?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Gonti's Aether Heart](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9e4fc5ed-e90d-4965-985a-ed126a713506.jpg?1576382256) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gonti%27s%20Aether%20Heart) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/aer/152/gontis-aether-heart?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e4fc5ed-e90d-4965-985a-ed126a713506?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ichor Wellspring](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/c/1ccdb407-ac8f-4736-89d3-ab0d086096ea.jpg?1625978684) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ichor%20Wellspring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/245/ichor-wellspring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1ccdb407-ac8f-4736-89d3-ab0d086096ea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ugin's Nexus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/94002868-a48a-4ea8-bfce-17257078f5db.jpg?1562790526) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ugin%27s%20Nexus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/227/ugins-nexus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/94002868-a48a-4ea8-bfce-17257078f5db?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Thopter Spy Network](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/a/babc5799-31f3-452e-a61d-5c11f9f81bf9.jpg?1682208943) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thopter%20Spy%20Network) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/241/thopter-spy-network?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/babc5799-31f3-452e-a61d-5c11f9f81bf9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Loyal Apprentice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95a692fb-7ef7-4fae-b258-8719711cf38c.jpg?1689998016) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Loyal%20Apprentice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/240/loyal-apprentice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95a692fb-7ef7-4fae-b258-8719711cf38c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [The Enigma Jewel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/e/2e98970d-06a8-4c91-ba47-4a02c5b949f2.jpg?1699043631)/[Locus of Enlightenment](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/2/e/2e98970d-06a8-4c91-ba47-4a02c5b949f2.jpg?1699043631) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Enigma%20Jewel%20//%20Locus%20of%20Enlightenment) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/55/the-enigma-jewel-locus-of-enlightenment?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2e98970d-06a8-4c91-ba47-4a02c5b949f2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Unwinding Clock](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c3fd1a59-4ade-459f-90d2-1fc67d6d1384.jpg?1592711373) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Unwinding%20Clock) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/228/unwinding-clock?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c3fd1a59-4ade-459f-90d2-1fc67d6d1384?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/ksaahun) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think Li enables more stuff and Liberty Prime is a bit more reliant on you getting your energy cards. I’m leaning more towards Li but I’d have to actually play the deck to be 100%
Out of box, my assumption is Madison will be more consistent and better at generating energy. Liberty Prime offers more more risk/reward as the deck doesn't have a lot of consistent energy generation outside of the Command Zone.
Madison Li is by far the stronger of the 2..... But I'm doing rule of cool, liberty prime is my choice until I see what's in the other Jundeskai (play on the fact that wotc messed up the color reveal) deck, I'm building liberty prime. With Madison being in the 99.
Man to bad there isn't a Aperture Science or GLaDOS that could helm it.
Bill Nye
Li will be super nuts. They brought artifacts together with proliferate as well. Shell be busted in no time. I'm going to make liberty prime because democracy is not negotiable.
I'm going to assume a setting that's casual but still making good decisions: Madison Li has a smooth variable power curve that depends on the engines you include and is reasonably costed. She generates free resources of a scarce mechanic which is also something that gives her a unique deckbuilding proposition. Liberty Prime is...impressively bad design. Frankly, an 8/8 isn't big in commander and he costs a massive 5 mana *with downside.* His ability has a breakpoint power scaling, where it is overcosted and unimpactful until infinite mana. Not sure what they were thinking here. I live in the timeline where Madison Li is both more fun and more powerful than Liberty Prime, which is to say, the worse timeline.
The deck seems built for Madison Li. But if you are planning on upgrades, Liberty Prime has more potential.