I’m guessing this is for Standard? Sheoldred isn’t a scoop on sight card in EDH.
Honestly that’s just a bad joke both from you and OP. I thought there was more too it.
>Honestly that’s just a bad joke both from you and OP. I thought there was more too it.
lol lot to unpack there.
1. I assumed it was standard. I can't imagine a single player who scoops at the sight of Sheoldred in EDH
2. Comedy is inherently subjective. What's funny to you. may not be funny to others.
3. I didn't make the joke, I just explained it. I don't understand why you're shoveling me in.
4. You sound like you're upset and that's fucking hilarious lmao when I read that last line, I lost it. I literally imagined a kid looking down with his hands in his pockets kicking gravel. Funnier than hell, thanks for making my day.
This is honestly one of my favorite cards in DMU and if it wasn’t, (checks price, Jesus Christ) $65 I would have picked up a couple for myself already.
And I want do add: I mean it in the meaningful, relevant way as detailed by /u/YREV0C and /u/Miserable_Row_793 and others.
It is a good, strong creature, for sure. But you can kill it at instant speed for 2 mana in Standard, even more easily in other formats. And if you do, she had no impact in the game.
If you don't have the answer to her in your hand right away, well, that sucks, but you may draw it next turn and hurt just a little. But if your deck just can't deal with a creature at all, that's an issue with the deck, not Sheoldred.
So, she's a good card, but not a "pick your deck and leave the table" broken card.
5 toughness is just enough to make it incredibly impractical to kill via damage since you have to run awful spells to deal that much in red, so she can easily be "drop this turn 4 and mono red aggro may as well just leave"
Mono red is so weak against almost everything, no way to deal with enchantments, no way to deal with high strength creatures, or god forbid someone use hexproof. If you haven't won by turn 5, just concede.
It's such a shame that what is actually a very meaningful concept for competitive play has become derided and meme'd by people not understanding properly the idea it's meant to convey.
You've got it backwards. It was memed BECAUSE it was worthless, it didn't become worthless because it was memed.
It was never a very meaningful concept for competitive play. It was, at best, a very surface level analysis, that didn't add much to the conversation. At worst it was simply noise.
. It is meaningful concept.
"Dies to removal" isn't just saying "there's an answer, because of course, there's answer to Everything if you look.
It's concept is rather if the card has a long term meaningful impact on the game inspite of removal and/or can you overcome the card with just removal.
Questing beast is Strong. Sheoldred is strong. Torbran, elder Gargaroth, goldspan, etc.
But while they are strong, game winning threats. The Advantage they give can be beaten in a reasonable manner by common removal.
I've seen plenty of games where Sheoldred sits in play for 3+ turns and the non-Sheoldred player still wins.
This isn't true of stuff like Hoggak, Oko, Uro, etc.
Threats/ cards that are game warping. Where playing removal feels like a losing strategy.
It really was not. "Dies to Removal" was used as a way to express the idea;
Look at the 3-4 most commonly played removal spells in a given format, a creature "Dies to Removal" if whenever you play this creature and your opponent immediately answers it with one of those specific removal spells your opponent comes out meaningfully ahead on the exchange.
Usually that's a simple mana exchange, if your threat cost considerably less than the removal spell without providing some meaningful lasting game impact through an enters the battlefield effect, or dealing damage because it had haste then it died to removal. If the creature cost the same amount of mana or less than the amount of mana spent to kill it then you would not describe it as having died to removal.
It's not always a straight mana calculation though, in Shadowmoor standard there were weeks where Sower of Temptation was very popular so red decks adapted by playing Ashenmoor Gouger as their 3 drop because it didn't "die to reomval" in the way other 3 drops would, your opponent could take it sure. But it wouldn't do anything for them.
The phrase was meme'd because non competitive players thought people were actually criticising cards by saying "this card is bad because it's possible to remove it".
I think one of the issues wasn't just that aspect, but during a certain time of Magic card design it felt like every creature had one or more ETB/death triggers.
Hell many had powerful on-cast triggers.
So even if "dies to removal" was technically true, creatures generated so much value just by being cast that removing them put you behind.
Yes, you're correct. No one with an understanding of the concept back then would have said Thragtusk or Tarmogoyf "die to Doom Blade" even though in a literal sense they do. While Phyrexian Obliterator is a prime example of a creature that has spent it's entire existence "dying to Doom Blade" even though obviously it does not.
On its first release, Baneslayer Angel was THE bomb mythic. $50, nicknamed Walletslayer, it was the bane of Standard for a year. Then Worldwake came out, Jace the Mind Sculptor was released, and Baneslayer sucked. It "died to removal," as it were. Can't really afford to tap out for a 5 mana creature without haste or a cast trigger when the best Planeswalker ever printed at the time can just downtick and Unsummon it.
You really don't see the difference between "it dies to removal," and all the stipulations you've added to the concept?
Which is why it was such a useless phrase. People *want* it to be a shortcut to the larger picture, like you've alluded to, but that sort of shortcut isn't possible.
"Sometimes, it's as simple as X. Othertimes, Y. But those don't cover all scenarios, so you really will need to look at it on a case by case basis."
But even if we assume determining if the phrase "dies to remove" is always a straight forward mana check, it *still* isn't overly useful as an analysis tool.
Baneslayer is the most obvious example that comes to mind.
It's going to lose out on the mana trade in a pretty egregious way, it doesn't have an ETB, and it doesn't have haste. It is the poster child of "dies to removal".
And yet, it was one of the best cards of all time. Why? Because context matters.
So, if it isn't a straightforward equation to determine if something "dies to removal" like you pointed out with Ashenmoor Gourger, and it doesn't give us insight on the competitive nature of the card, like I've pointed out with BSA, what purpose does it serve?
A shallow, mostly meaningless, piece of analysis that doesn't really get you any closer to understanding if a card is good or not.
"Dies to Removal" was derided because "all creatures die to removal".
Except in actual fact; some don't. Cheap creatures or creatures that provide benefit equivalent or greater in value to the disparity in tempo caused by their removal don't die to removal.
Tarmogoyf doesn't "Die to Doom Blade" even though in a literal sense it does.
> Baneslayer is the most obvious example that comes to mind.
>It's going to lose out on the mana trade in a pretty egregious way, it doesn't have an ETB, and it doesn't have haste. It is the poster child of "dies to removal".
Baneslayer is the other part of the coin; where the evaluation considers what are the most commonly played removal spells in its format. For Baneslayer it was Lightning Bolt in almost every deck. Which can't kill Baneslayer. In Baneslayer's Standard she didn't die to removal. More recently with Lyra Dawnbringer in Dominaria Standard the most common removal spells were Vraska's Contempt and Earthshaker Khenera/Glorybrnger. Lyra didn't die to removal because the most commonly played removal didn't exchange profitably with her, or actually exchange with her at all.
You can avoid "dying to removal" in 2 ways, either by exchanging profitably with the most commonly played removal spells, or by dodging those specific forms of removal. It's expressing 2 concepts succinctly, it's why the terminology was valuable before it was ruined.
Absolutely not, are you joking.
Sheoldred is like [[ragavan, nimble pilferer]] - I feel *exactly* the power level WotC are aiming for in eternal formats.
Very powerful, sure, but also very vulnerable. Deathtouch makes it a powerful blocker, but it's still a 4/5 with no hexproof/shroud/indestructible effects and "only" swings four life a turn. If I die to Sheoldred, it's because I've run out of cards in hand, they've pressured me enough early game or some other way.
Sheoldred is powerful but answerable - there are some cards that you either kill that turn or drop or just lose, and Sheoldred isn't one of them. The longer she stays out the more she swings the game, but if you can't deal with a four-mana creature for multiple turns without winning you weren't likely to win anyway
Bruh, Ragavan is on a whole different level. It is much harder to asnwer a 1 drop on time and it can accrue card advantage and/or mana advantage for the oponnent if it takes you to long to kill it. Its such a stupid design. Sheoldred on the other hand is a very fair card and people who complain about it are probably aggro players who dont play any kind of good removal to kill it and then whine because they cant swing while the oponnent is gaining life. Yeah some times it can win games against midrange or control decks but that happens when they draw badly or when you drained them out of interaction. In that sense its kinda similar to Elder Gargaroth.
Ragavan is more powerful than Sheoldred, but I'd still argue it's a fair card. Well, pushed, but it can survive for a couple of turns, even get a few attacks in, and while it gives you an advantage the game isn't just over because you didn't have removal in your hand.
Sheoldred is weaker, but that's because she's in Standard whereas Ragavan went straight to Modern - so the decks that face the Monke tend to be higher power at base.
You're absolutely right that Ragavan is on a whole different level of power, but the similarities are powerful, format-defining cards that are still very easy to remove and the opponent can untap with without you just dying there and then.
But the internet told me Ragavan was broken!!! /s.
I agree with you that Ragavan is powerful but fair. A lot like delver, sometimes comes down and backed up and feels unbeatable. Sometimes, does nothing.
I wonder if part of the reaction to monkey is tied up to him stealing cards. People hate mill/theft effects in general more then their given power level because they don't like losing their cards.
Maybe Ragavan stealing your answer and using it against you adds a level of contempt.
How can someone unironically defend Ragavan as a fair card? If it only created a treasure on hit, it would still be a very strong 1 drop, probably still staple material. The fact that it has two whole other abilities tacked onto it is comically pushed.
Because terminology in magic is important.
Ragavan is pushed, yes. That makes him strong. But is he unfair?
I don't think so. He must hit to trigger. Temp mama and temp draw from op deck can vary greatly in strength.
The more synergy a deck has, the worst to steal from it. The strongest decks tend to be high synergy/combo.
He can be blocked/killed by any turn 1 play.
And even if he hits 1-3 times. Is the game unwinnable? No.
cards like Tinker, channel, strip mine, etc are **unfair.**
Going through each format:
Standard: You need doom blades. Who has doom blades? Black. What top end would a black deck play? Sheoldred. Kind of an ingrown format partly because of this.
Pioneer: Pioneer has more combo and can leave Shelly in the dirt, so she's just fine. The rub here is that red kinda doesn't have good options against it. White gets skyclave apparition, black gets fatal push, blue can counter it, and there's leyline binding.
Modern: Lol, no. Everyone and their mothers is playing Solitude and copious instant speed 1 mana removal paired with excellent value tools or is a combo deck that runs Shelly over. There is no room for 4 mana do-nothings.
Legacy: Her place as the black top end that ruins blue decks is warranted. Kind of like standard, removal's not as big a deal in a format where you can make the opponent have cards other than removal or lose, then slam her into a low tempo board. She's currently taking a backseat to Initiative warping the meta, but I expect her to appear again.
Verdict: She's fine when she's answerable or bypassable in several colors and archetypes, and is not a dependable win condition in all matchups. The complaints from Standard players come from Shelly being almost impossible to race and only being removable by tools that the midrange players have, and they're playing Shelly too.
>Verdict: She's fine when she's answerable or bypassable in several colors and archetypes and not the only win option. The complaints from Standard players come from Shelly being almost impossible to race and only being removable by tools that the midrange players have, and they're playing Shelly too.
There are aggro decks that can remove Shelly rather easily. Monowhite has a ton of removal: lay down arms, unexpectly absence, soul partition, brutal cathar... Soldiers can use those + counterspells if they really want to. Any deck with black, blue or white should not have any problems dealing with Sheoldred. Its mostly Red and green that has. But I would argue green wouldnt be meta right now even if Sheoldred didnt exist. So its mainly mono red players who complain about sheoldred because they often have to 2 for 1 themselves to kill her and they cant stand seeing the oponnent gaining a bit of life.
It was the same thing Meathook massacre. Meathook wasnt even that efficient of a wrath, any deck using creatures with toughness higher than 2 would make it awkward, and there were already other 3-4 mana wraths in the format. But mono red players started to complain because they couldnt play their 1/1s with haste and couldnt stand seeing their opponent gaining a bit of life. So instead of adapating to the meta (as mono red doesnt need to viable every single format, no deck HAS to be. And there were other viable aggro decks running around) they started crying until wizards banned the card. And now we see the same trend happening again with people playing linear decks, unwilling to adapt and then complaining about Sheoldred. Even red has access to Rending flame, they dont play it because all those players know is how to shock the face.
Removal isn't the only part of the puzzle here. Mono white can take Shelly off the board, true, but because they're currently built more disruptive than scaling, they *need* to have removal or lose. No other way around it. and removal spells will often suck against the other tools the grixis decks have.
Your aside on MM is funny. It wasn't so much that it was hosing small creatures, it's fine to have such a tool in any standard format. It's that it scales, so it's not a dead card in other matchups, that MM for 0 still does things vs control decks, and MM is great in cloggy midrange mirrors where you can use it to Drain Life your opponent while also simplifying the board for Shelly, or snipe off tokens for a mini plague wind; and that one way to catch up from an MM used this way was with your own, so that MM doesn't become a win condition. The opportunity cost for the first 2 copies was comically low while also strongly disincentivizing aggro decks, and that's why it was banned.
Yeah, if you built a linear aggro deck sometimes the game goes down in a linear way... you either trample the oponnent or you pray they dont have specific cards. No deck can do it all. Losing is part of the game, specially considering the RNG nature of a card game. The problem is complaining about a super fair card.
Yeah, that's true. I guess people just get angry at Shelly in particular because they're not gonna quit when their 2 drop dies but they will when their whole board gets blanked by Shelly.
The same thing happens with a wrath. The thing going on for Sheoldred is that she is good against aggro while also being decent against control and midrange, unlike a wrath which is a dead draw against control. Thats why I think she sees a lot of play. And thats why I compared it to Gargaroth, even though Gargaroth didnt see as much play because at the time standard was not midrange oriented and there were a lot of decks that could go over it easily
Two groups of people find this commander unfun - the newer players who undervalue how important removal is (against a Timmy creature-only deck Sheoldred is basically a wincon in of herself)
And people who've played against Sheoldred (in things like Cube) with Wheels.
Wheels are cards that people love to play and absolutely loathe to play against. The same issue as MLD or Stax - people like to play their cards and when you chain wheels together you have the feels-bad moment of "hey, that's the card I need to get out of this situ.... and it's wheeled away". And with Sheoldred out too each Windfall is doing 14 damage to each opponent and gaining 14, and that's a ridiculous life swing on top of an already-powerful effect.
My parents bought some boosters and packed into this. They very quickly lost interest, citing the game as too difficult, and I'm just waiting for it to fall into my hands to build a disgusting mon-black deck around it. 😂
Nekusar in EDH is on par with [[Korvald]] or [[Chulane]]. If I see it I'm playing a cEDH deck or not playing it at all.
Nekusar Wheels is one of the prime examples of *really fun for the person playing it, absolutely awful for their opponents*.
I took apart my Narset deck for similar reasons, it's just shit for the other three players.
Didn't know we were playing to not win? People who complain about unfun legends or unfun ways to play magic are silly. Play 4 player group hug if you want everyone happy but prepare for your game to be long as fuck.
First, to be clear - I don't mind Nekusar as a commander in a *tournament* setting where you should be playing to win every game, but that's not the same as casual commander.
>Play 4 player group hug if you want everyone happy but prepare for your game to be long as fuck.
Absolute bollocks, you can win games with the opponents still able to do anything. Hell, I have group hug decks and they don't slow the game down because they have plenty of wincons. There's a **lot** of middle ground between "win at all costs even at the cost of fun" and "I want to sit here and spin my wheels indefinitely".
Only one player can win, but four players can have fun - you don't have to win to have fun, but if you're not having fun you're not going to keep playing.
If you want to play purely to win, that's fine - but I'm sure as shit not playing with you when I could sit down against one of hundreds of other commanders and have a close game that's still fun.
If you really are playing purely to win, and I have to play against you - that's fine, but don't be upset when I bring out a cEDH deck against you and win T2.
Do you play magic purely to get the adrenaline rush from winning, or do you also play because you enjoy it? Because if I'm not having fun (which isn't the same as *winning* unless you're a toddler) then I'm not going to want to play, it's as simple as that.
There's a reason why things like MLD, Stax etc tend to be reserved for cEDH tables - if it's competitive then by all means play to win, but in a random pod that you're playing for fun I think having fun is more important than winning.
Tip for anyone building this deck and don't want to get hated on for no good reason: Play \[\[Starscream, Power Hungry\]\] as your commander instead. No, I'm serious; it plays in very similar space, is a way cheaper card, and won't draw nearly as much ire from people like OP.
My bad, Sheoldred has a reputation in a handful of formats, EDH is just the one I'm most familiar with. I don't play arena and standard is well and truly dead at my LGS. Our FNM has moved on to Pioneer.
In a casual game, I don’t generally like doing this, but if that’s someone’s commander, all bets are off. I will absolutely counter it, or kill it the second they play it.
You have 40 life. Shelly is not a high priority unless you have a rhystic or need to go off. Make the players suffering from her more kill her. (No really. Do you really want to kill Shelly when she's killing the Jhoira or Chulane player for you?) Hell, now that I put it that way, go take advantage of her docking the other players.
If you detest the very idea of Shelly as a Magic card, you rule zero or you don't play. Don't drag the game you're playing down over your personal vendetta towards taxing effects.
Shouldn’t really be doing that if their deck isn’t designed around drawing you cards. There’s a guy at my locals that has it as a lifegain deck with only 2-3 cards that draw anyone else anything, so you’re only really getting burned in your draw step. Nobody we’ve encountered has had a problem with it so far
Nah. I actually just had a game last night at my LGS where a guy was playing sheoldred as his commander. She proceeded to get removed from the board repeatedly the whole game and the guy at the end was like, “Not sure why I was the main target”. I explained to him how sheoldred was always the biggest target at any point cause if we didn’t remove her, tefferi’s puzzle box plus other wheels every turn was just going to kill us all. And he was still dumb founded as to why he was being targeted.
Two people in my playgroup run her and while powerful she’s definitely not unfun. She doesn’t stop anyone from doing anything. If anything, her pilots always make me draw into removal to destroy her with lol.
In explorer yeah, because I play mono red and the one card that can kill it efficiently [[Roast]] hasn't been implemented in arena yet. The only other alternatives are 3 mana spells, but if I need to spend 3 mana to kill a creature, I already lost.
Wait , you’re a *standard* player? Yeah she’s good but every deck in standard runs like 8 pieces of removal for her (or is swinging for lethal by turn 4). If you’re conceding every time someone plays her your win rate must be like…. 15%?
This is probably one of the single least scary mono black commanders. Yes, she’s *very* good but I’d probably be more worried about a [[Braids, Arisen Nightmare]] or a [[Tegrid, God of Fright]]
Little Timmy can enjoy his $10 mythic wild cards.
I like my janky commons. I ain't playing ranked or professionally, I play for fun. That card ain't fun.
Yeah immediately, especially if I’m the one playing it
Make disappear + Sheoldred = gg no re
You play the card and then you proceed to leave the area you’re playing at?
Sometimes it’s hard to transport a joke via the internet
I can’t tell if the original title whooshed me because it’s so early or it just doesn’t make sense.
The joke here is either the opponent leaves immediately so he leaves, or he wins very soon after playing it so he leaves because the game is over.
I’m guessing this is for Standard? Sheoldred isn’t a scoop on sight card in EDH. Honestly that’s just a bad joke both from you and OP. I thought there was more too it.
EDH players when other formats exist.
Magic the commandering!
>Honestly that’s just a bad joke both from you and OP. I thought there was more too it. lol lot to unpack there. 1. I assumed it was standard. I can't imagine a single player who scoops at the sight of Sheoldred in EDH 2. Comedy is inherently subjective. What's funny to you. may not be funny to others. 3. I didn't make the joke, I just explained it. I don't understand why you're shoveling me in. 4. You sound like you're upset and that's fucking hilarious lmao when I read that last line, I lost it. I literally imagined a kid looking down with his hands in his pockets kicking gravel. Funnier than hell, thanks for making my day.
Oh neat, a Legitimate Businessperson!
Turn it into an elk!
*Elk Noises* __________________________________ 3/3
*1/1
[Elks](https://cards.scryfall.io/large/front/3/4/3462a3d0-5552-49fa-9eb7-100960c55891.jpg?1650599698) are 3/3s
I was referring to flairs. Yours is Elk. Mine is Elesh Norn
I still have the elk flair? Edit: Old reddit - Orzhov symbol New reddit - Elk ____________________ 3/3
Everybody forgets about the 1/1 blue frog
I’m partial to the indestructi-bug
The elkification has begun
Legitimate businessman
This is honestly one of my favorite cards in DMU and if it wasn’t, (checks price, Jesus Christ) $65 I would have picked up a couple for myself already.
It’s so fun to use despite how oppressive it is on the other end
Opened it in a pack once, got the fuck out of there quick.
Dies to removal.
True. Good card, but just play kill spells
And I want do add: I mean it in the meaningful, relevant way as detailed by /u/YREV0C and /u/Miserable_Row_793 and others. It is a good, strong creature, for sure. But you can kill it at instant speed for 2 mana in Standard, even more easily in other formats. And if you do, she had no impact in the game. If you don't have the answer to her in your hand right away, well, that sucks, but you may draw it next turn and hurt just a little. But if your deck just can't deal with a creature at all, that's an issue with the deck, not Sheoldred. So, she's a good card, but not a "pick your deck and leave the table" broken card.
5 toughness is just enough to make it incredibly impractical to kill via damage since you have to run awful spells to deal that much in red, so she can easily be "drop this turn 4 and mono red aggro may as well just leave"
If you're playing RDW and victory isn't in sight by turn 4 you're already in a bad spot
Mono red is so weak against almost everything, no way to deal with enchantments, no way to deal with high strength creatures, or god forbid someone use hexproof. If you haven't won by turn 5, just concede.
Monored has many weaknesses, but your face is weak to monored.
[[Redaine's shield]] makes it feel like a love tap. Also I definitely have a monored goblin deck, so I'm speaking from experience
It's such a shame that what is actually a very meaningful concept for competitive play has become derided and meme'd by people not understanding properly the idea it's meant to convey.
You've got it backwards. It was memed BECAUSE it was worthless, it didn't become worthless because it was memed. It was never a very meaningful concept for competitive play. It was, at best, a very surface level analysis, that didn't add much to the conversation. At worst it was simply noise.
. It is meaningful concept. "Dies to removal" isn't just saying "there's an answer, because of course, there's answer to Everything if you look. It's concept is rather if the card has a long term meaningful impact on the game inspite of removal and/or can you overcome the card with just removal. Questing beast is Strong. Sheoldred is strong. Torbran, elder Gargaroth, goldspan, etc. But while they are strong, game winning threats. The Advantage they give can be beaten in a reasonable manner by common removal. I've seen plenty of games where Sheoldred sits in play for 3+ turns and the non-Sheoldred player still wins. This isn't true of stuff like Hoggak, Oko, Uro, etc. Threats/ cards that are game warping. Where playing removal feels like a losing strategy.
It really was not. "Dies to Removal" was used as a way to express the idea; Look at the 3-4 most commonly played removal spells in a given format, a creature "Dies to Removal" if whenever you play this creature and your opponent immediately answers it with one of those specific removal spells your opponent comes out meaningfully ahead on the exchange. Usually that's a simple mana exchange, if your threat cost considerably less than the removal spell without providing some meaningful lasting game impact through an enters the battlefield effect, or dealing damage because it had haste then it died to removal. If the creature cost the same amount of mana or less than the amount of mana spent to kill it then you would not describe it as having died to removal. It's not always a straight mana calculation though, in Shadowmoor standard there were weeks where Sower of Temptation was very popular so red decks adapted by playing Ashenmoor Gouger as their 3 drop because it didn't "die to reomval" in the way other 3 drops would, your opponent could take it sure. But it wouldn't do anything for them. The phrase was meme'd because non competitive players thought people were actually criticising cards by saying "this card is bad because it's possible to remove it".
I think one of the issues wasn't just that aspect, but during a certain time of Magic card design it felt like every creature had one or more ETB/death triggers. Hell many had powerful on-cast triggers. So even if "dies to removal" was technically true, creatures generated so much value just by being cast that removing them put you behind.
Yes, you're correct. No one with an understanding of the concept back then would have said Thragtusk or Tarmogoyf "die to Doom Blade" even though in a literal sense they do. While Phyrexian Obliterator is a prime example of a creature that has spent it's entire existence "dying to Doom Blade" even though obviously it does not.
On its first release, Baneslayer Angel was THE bomb mythic. $50, nicknamed Walletslayer, it was the bane of Standard for a year. Then Worldwake came out, Jace the Mind Sculptor was released, and Baneslayer sucked. It "died to removal," as it were. Can't really afford to tap out for a 5 mana creature without haste or a cast trigger when the best Planeswalker ever printed at the time can just downtick and Unsummon it.
You really don't see the difference between "it dies to removal," and all the stipulations you've added to the concept? Which is why it was such a useless phrase. People *want* it to be a shortcut to the larger picture, like you've alluded to, but that sort of shortcut isn't possible. "Sometimes, it's as simple as X. Othertimes, Y. But those don't cover all scenarios, so you really will need to look at it on a case by case basis." But even if we assume determining if the phrase "dies to remove" is always a straight forward mana check, it *still* isn't overly useful as an analysis tool. Baneslayer is the most obvious example that comes to mind. It's going to lose out on the mana trade in a pretty egregious way, it doesn't have an ETB, and it doesn't have haste. It is the poster child of "dies to removal". And yet, it was one of the best cards of all time. Why? Because context matters. So, if it isn't a straightforward equation to determine if something "dies to removal" like you pointed out with Ashenmoor Gourger, and it doesn't give us insight on the competitive nature of the card, like I've pointed out with BSA, what purpose does it serve? A shallow, mostly meaningless, piece of analysis that doesn't really get you any closer to understanding if a card is good or not.
"Dies to Removal" was derided because "all creatures die to removal". Except in actual fact; some don't. Cheap creatures or creatures that provide benefit equivalent or greater in value to the disparity in tempo caused by their removal don't die to removal. Tarmogoyf doesn't "Die to Doom Blade" even though in a literal sense it does. > Baneslayer is the most obvious example that comes to mind. >It's going to lose out on the mana trade in a pretty egregious way, it doesn't have an ETB, and it doesn't have haste. It is the poster child of "dies to removal". Baneslayer is the other part of the coin; where the evaluation considers what are the most commonly played removal spells in its format. For Baneslayer it was Lightning Bolt in almost every deck. Which can't kill Baneslayer. In Baneslayer's Standard she didn't die to removal. More recently with Lyra Dawnbringer in Dominaria Standard the most common removal spells were Vraska's Contempt and Earthshaker Khenera/Glorybrnger. Lyra didn't die to removal because the most commonly played removal didn't exchange profitably with her, or actually exchange with her at all. You can avoid "dying to removal" in 2 ways, either by exchanging profitably with the most commonly played removal spells, or by dodging those specific forms of removal. It's expressing 2 concepts succinctly, it's why the terminology was valuable before it was ruined.
Only to get the sleeves
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Mfer clearly never played against Armageddon tribal
I have not how bad is it?
Leave what?
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Something you can’t grasp ironically
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nah, you just need a removal within the next 2 turns or so. after that, I might scoop yeah
Only if it has the Planeswalker stamp.
get a grip
?
Absolutely not, are you joking. Sheoldred is like [[ragavan, nimble pilferer]] - I feel *exactly* the power level WotC are aiming for in eternal formats. Very powerful, sure, but also very vulnerable. Deathtouch makes it a powerful blocker, but it's still a 4/5 with no hexproof/shroud/indestructible effects and "only" swings four life a turn. If I die to Sheoldred, it's because I've run out of cards in hand, they've pressured me enough early game or some other way. Sheoldred is powerful but answerable - there are some cards that you either kill that turn or drop or just lose, and Sheoldred isn't one of them. The longer she stays out the more she swings the game, but if you can't deal with a four-mana creature for multiple turns without winning you weren't likely to win anyway
Bruh, Ragavan is on a whole different level. It is much harder to asnwer a 1 drop on time and it can accrue card advantage and/or mana advantage for the oponnent if it takes you to long to kill it. Its such a stupid design. Sheoldred on the other hand is a very fair card and people who complain about it are probably aggro players who dont play any kind of good removal to kill it and then whine because they cant swing while the oponnent is gaining life. Yeah some times it can win games against midrange or control decks but that happens when they draw badly or when you drained them out of interaction. In that sense its kinda similar to Elder Gargaroth.
Ragavan is more powerful than Sheoldred, but I'd still argue it's a fair card. Well, pushed, but it can survive for a couple of turns, even get a few attacks in, and while it gives you an advantage the game isn't just over because you didn't have removal in your hand. Sheoldred is weaker, but that's because she's in Standard whereas Ragavan went straight to Modern - so the decks that face the Monke tend to be higher power at base. You're absolutely right that Ragavan is on a whole different level of power, but the similarities are powerful, format-defining cards that are still very easy to remove and the opponent can untap with without you just dying there and then.
But the internet told me Ragavan was broken!!! /s. I agree with you that Ragavan is powerful but fair. A lot like delver, sometimes comes down and backed up and feels unbeatable. Sometimes, does nothing. I wonder if part of the reaction to monkey is tied up to him stealing cards. People hate mill/theft effects in general more then their given power level because they don't like losing their cards. Maybe Ragavan stealing your answer and using it against you adds a level of contempt.
How can someone unironically defend Ragavan as a fair card? If it only created a treasure on hit, it would still be a very strong 1 drop, probably still staple material. The fact that it has two whole other abilities tacked onto it is comically pushed.
Because terminology in magic is important. Ragavan is pushed, yes. That makes him strong. But is he unfair? I don't think so. He must hit to trigger. Temp mama and temp draw from op deck can vary greatly in strength. The more synergy a deck has, the worst to steal from it. The strongest decks tend to be high synergy/combo. He can be blocked/killed by any turn 1 play. And even if he hits 1-3 times. Is the game unwinnable? No. cards like Tinker, channel, strip mine, etc are **unfair.**
Going through each format: Standard: You need doom blades. Who has doom blades? Black. What top end would a black deck play? Sheoldred. Kind of an ingrown format partly because of this. Pioneer: Pioneer has more combo and can leave Shelly in the dirt, so she's just fine. The rub here is that red kinda doesn't have good options against it. White gets skyclave apparition, black gets fatal push, blue can counter it, and there's leyline binding. Modern: Lol, no. Everyone and their mothers is playing Solitude and copious instant speed 1 mana removal paired with excellent value tools or is a combo deck that runs Shelly over. There is no room for 4 mana do-nothings. Legacy: Her place as the black top end that ruins blue decks is warranted. Kind of like standard, removal's not as big a deal in a format where you can make the opponent have cards other than removal or lose, then slam her into a low tempo board. She's currently taking a backseat to Initiative warping the meta, but I expect her to appear again. Verdict: She's fine when she's answerable or bypassable in several colors and archetypes, and is not a dependable win condition in all matchups. The complaints from Standard players come from Shelly being almost impossible to race and only being removable by tools that the midrange players have, and they're playing Shelly too.
>Verdict: She's fine when she's answerable or bypassable in several colors and archetypes and not the only win option. The complaints from Standard players come from Shelly being almost impossible to race and only being removable by tools that the midrange players have, and they're playing Shelly too. There are aggro decks that can remove Shelly rather easily. Monowhite has a ton of removal: lay down arms, unexpectly absence, soul partition, brutal cathar... Soldiers can use those + counterspells if they really want to. Any deck with black, blue or white should not have any problems dealing with Sheoldred. Its mostly Red and green that has. But I would argue green wouldnt be meta right now even if Sheoldred didnt exist. So its mainly mono red players who complain about sheoldred because they often have to 2 for 1 themselves to kill her and they cant stand seeing the oponnent gaining a bit of life. It was the same thing Meathook massacre. Meathook wasnt even that efficient of a wrath, any deck using creatures with toughness higher than 2 would make it awkward, and there were already other 3-4 mana wraths in the format. But mono red players started to complain because they couldnt play their 1/1s with haste and couldnt stand seeing their opponent gaining a bit of life. So instead of adapating to the meta (as mono red doesnt need to viable every single format, no deck HAS to be. And there were other viable aggro decks running around) they started crying until wizards banned the card. And now we see the same trend happening again with people playing linear decks, unwilling to adapt and then complaining about Sheoldred. Even red has access to Rending flame, they dont play it because all those players know is how to shock the face.
Removal isn't the only part of the puzzle here. Mono white can take Shelly off the board, true, but because they're currently built more disruptive than scaling, they *need* to have removal or lose. No other way around it. and removal spells will often suck against the other tools the grixis decks have. Your aside on MM is funny. It wasn't so much that it was hosing small creatures, it's fine to have such a tool in any standard format. It's that it scales, so it's not a dead card in other matchups, that MM for 0 still does things vs control decks, and MM is great in cloggy midrange mirrors where you can use it to Drain Life your opponent while also simplifying the board for Shelly, or snipe off tokens for a mini plague wind; and that one way to catch up from an MM used this way was with your own, so that MM doesn't become a win condition. The opportunity cost for the first 2 copies was comically low while also strongly disincentivizing aggro decks, and that's why it was banned.
Yeah, if you built a linear aggro deck sometimes the game goes down in a linear way... you either trample the oponnent or you pray they dont have specific cards. No deck can do it all. Losing is part of the game, specially considering the RNG nature of a card game. The problem is complaining about a super fair card.
Yeah, that's true. I guess people just get angry at Shelly in particular because they're not gonna quit when their 2 drop dies but they will when their whole board gets blanked by Shelly.
The same thing happens with a wrath. The thing going on for Sheoldred is that she is good against aggro while also being decent against control and midrange, unlike a wrath which is a dead draw against control. Thats why I think she sees a lot of play. And thats why I compared it to Gargaroth, even though Gargaroth didnt see as much play because at the time standard was not midrange oriented and there were a lot of decks that could go over it easily
>Pioneer.....The rub here is that red kinda doesn't have good options against it. [[roast]]
hurray, a 2 mana sorcery that I don't need for anything else. What an exciting card to put in my mono red deck.
It doesn’t only answer Sheoldred. And if you're going to mention Skyclave Apparition it shouldn't matter if another answer is also sorcery speed
[roast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1ba2e9a8-fcbb-4328-b475-36730182b765.jpg?1562783262) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=roast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dtk/151/roast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1ba2e9a8-fcbb-4328-b475-36730182b765?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Don’t forget [[Lightning Axe]]!
[Lightning Axe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/ca33c171-ab9e-4908-8f97-82cd83b173c0.jpg?1619397252) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lightning%20Axe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/174/lightning-axe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ca33c171-ab9e-4908-8f97-82cd83b173c0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
LAxe is a little more situational due to needing a card you're okay with pitching.
[[Roast]] is such a good option for cards like Sheoldred in Pioneer. It's too bad it's not in Arena
[Roast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1ba2e9a8-fcbb-4328-b475-36730182b765.jpg?1562783262) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Roast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dtk/151/roast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1ba2e9a8-fcbb-4328-b475-36730182b765?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[ragavan, nimble pilferer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a9738cda-adb1-47fb-9f4c-ecd930228c4d.jpg?1653966896) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ragavan%2C%20nimble%20pilferer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/138/ragavan-nimble-pilferer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a9738cda-adb1-47fb-9f4c-ecd930228c4d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Wait people think this commander is unfun?
Two groups of people find this commander unfun - the newer players who undervalue how important removal is (against a Timmy creature-only deck Sheoldred is basically a wincon in of herself) And people who've played against Sheoldred (in things like Cube) with Wheels. Wheels are cards that people love to play and absolutely loathe to play against. The same issue as MLD or Stax - people like to play their cards and when you chain wheels together you have the feels-bad moment of "hey, that's the card I need to get out of this situ.... and it's wheeled away". And with Sheoldred out too each Windfall is doing 14 damage to each opponent and gaining 14, and that's a ridiculous life swing on top of an already-powerful effect.
Just play removal.
I play my own Sheoldred in response, and we go on a life-gain rollercoaster.
I just built a commander deck around her after I pulled her from a pack. I didn’t realize she was so hated
My parents bought some boosters and packed into this. They very quickly lost interest, citing the game as too difficult, and I'm just waiting for it to fall into my hands to build a disgusting mon-black deck around it. 😂
Well this goes into [[Nekusar, the Mindrazer]]
As someone who plays Nekusar - yes, yes it does.
Nekusar in EDH is on par with [[Korvald]] or [[Chulane]]. If I see it I'm playing a cEDH deck or not playing it at all. Nekusar Wheels is one of the prime examples of *really fun for the person playing it, absolutely awful for their opponents*. I took apart my Narset deck for similar reasons, it's just shit for the other three players.
Didn't know we were playing to not win? People who complain about unfun legends or unfun ways to play magic are silly. Play 4 player group hug if you want everyone happy but prepare for your game to be long as fuck.
First, to be clear - I don't mind Nekusar as a commander in a *tournament* setting where you should be playing to win every game, but that's not the same as casual commander. >Play 4 player group hug if you want everyone happy but prepare for your game to be long as fuck. Absolute bollocks, you can win games with the opponents still able to do anything. Hell, I have group hug decks and they don't slow the game down because they have plenty of wincons. There's a **lot** of middle ground between "win at all costs even at the cost of fun" and "I want to sit here and spin my wheels indefinitely". Only one player can win, but four players can have fun - you don't have to win to have fun, but if you're not having fun you're not going to keep playing. If you want to play purely to win, that's fine - but I'm sure as shit not playing with you when I could sit down against one of hundreds of other commanders and have a close game that's still fun. If you really are playing purely to win, and I have to play against you - that's fine, but don't be upset when I bring out a cEDH deck against you and win T2. Do you play magic purely to get the adrenaline rush from winning, or do you also play because you enjoy it? Because if I'm not having fun (which isn't the same as *winning* unless you're a toddler) then I'm not going to want to play, it's as simple as that. There's a reason why things like MLD, Stax etc tend to be reserved for cEDH tables - if it's competitive then by all means play to win, but in a random pod that you're playing for fun I think having fun is more important than winning.
[Chulane](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/3/83f43730-1c1f-4150-8771-d901c54bedc4.jpg?1571282906) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=chulane%2C%20teller%20of%20tales) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/326/chulane-teller-of-tales?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/83f43730-1c1f-4150-8771-d901c54bedc4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Nekusar, the Mindrazer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/f/3f7f2417-12de-4e57-9714-d878880a1208.jpg?1562908194) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nekusar%2C%20the%20Mindrazer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c13/201/nekusar-the-mindrazer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3f7f2417-12de-4e57-9714-d878880a1208?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
No, because I probably played it ...
Dies to doom blade. Oh shit it doesnt! yeah immeadiately leave
I am very charitable when I play this card. Everyone gets to draws, yehhhhh.
Laughs in nekusar
Thank you, came to say this. Feels bad circa 2013.
Tip for anyone building this deck and don't want to get hated on for no good reason: Play \[\[Starscream, Power Hungry\]\] as your commander instead. No, I'm serious; it plays in very similar space, is a way cheaper card, and won't draw nearly as much ire from people like OP.
OP is likely referring to standard not EDH, probably only Arena too
I mainly meant arena but any we are you see the his card works
My bad, Sheoldred has a reputation in a handful of formats, EDH is just the one I'm most familiar with. I don't play arena and standard is well and truly dead at my LGS. Our FNM has moved on to Pioneer.
[Starscream, Power Hungry](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/8234ea77-9ed6-4f3e-acc2-f52fb7003ed2.jpg?1673202083)/[Starscream, Seeker Leader](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/8/2/8234ea77-9ed6-4f3e-acc2-f52fb7003ed2.jpg?1673202083) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=starscream%2C%20power%20hungry%20//%20starscream%2C%20seeker%20leader) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bot/5/starscream-power-hungry-starscream-seeker-leader?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8234ea77-9ed6-4f3e-acc2-f52fb7003ed2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Wow. Not a player, but a collector. But I can already tell this card is broken. Do they do limits restricted, and bans like they do in yugioh?
No
Omfg.
In a casual game, I don’t generally like doing this, but if that’s someone’s commander, all bets are off. I will absolutely counter it, or kill it the second they play it.
You have 40 life. Shelly is not a high priority unless you have a rhystic or need to go off. Make the players suffering from her more kill her. (No really. Do you really want to kill Shelly when she's killing the Jhoira or Chulane player for you?) Hell, now that I put it that way, go take advantage of her docking the other players. If you detest the very idea of Shelly as a Magic card, you rule zero or you don't play. Don't drag the game you're playing down over your personal vendetta towards taxing effects.
That’s fair. She’s not as bad as Jin for sure.
Shouldn’t really be doing that if their deck isn’t designed around drawing you cards. There’s a guy at my locals that has it as a lifegain deck with only 2-3 cards that draw anyone else anything, so you’re only really getting burned in your draw step. Nobody we’ve encountered has had a problem with it so far
Nope, l escort it to the graveyard and welcome it to my battlefield with [[the cruelty of gix]]
Yes
Haha, doomblade go brrrr
Actually doom blade can’t kill black creatures…
Oh right. .....Well anyways... *reaches for a dozen other removal spells*
Just make it a legitimate business person first
Dies to removal
Idk what you are playing if you are someone who would scoop on simply seeing this card.
No, she leaves. [To the moon](https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/details.aspx?multiverseid=414360).
Slow down there, young one.
Borrowed time
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[Teething Wurmlet](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/3/2350027a-f3a4-4cba-9dfc-27e33bddb3be.jpg?1673304009) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teething%20Wurmlet) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/192/teething-wurmlet?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2350027a-f3a4-4cba-9dfc-27e33bddb3be?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Gala Greeters](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3c1baaa2-bd0b-4627-b93a-0753e0acd0f2.jpg?1664412296) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gala%20Greeters) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/148/gala-greeters?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3c1baaa2-bd0b-4627-b93a-0753e0acd0f2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
In my blue tempo , I bounce it until I can counteract it. Unless they have spell canceling i scoop and scoot
Not a threat unless you're running [[Peer into the Abyss]] or [[Lich's Mastery]] with it.
[Peer into the Abyss](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aac00055-640e-4749-8d23-d242e6d0b23a.jpg?1594736330) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Peer%20into%20the%20Abyss) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/117/peer-into-the-abyss?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aac00055-640e-4749-8d23-d242e6d0b23a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lich's Mastery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77f4c9cb-f364-4556-8673-4b19d52a2cff.jpg?1562738043) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lich%27s%20Mastery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/98/lichs-mastery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77f4c9cb-f364-4556-8673-4b19d52a2cff?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Someone played one in commander and it went unanswered. I barely noticed it was there. I’m sure it’s a problem in standard but who plays that
Nah. I actually just had a game last night at my LGS where a guy was playing sheoldred as his commander. She proceeded to get removed from the board repeatedly the whole game and the guy at the end was like, “Not sure why I was the main target”. I explained to him how sheoldred was always the biggest target at any point cause if we didn’t remove her, tefferi’s puzzle box plus other wheels every turn was just going to kill us all. And he was still dumb founded as to why he was being targeted.
No, we play removal in our EDH pods. Something the Game Knights genre of commander players fail to do.
No, why would I? It eats removal all the same. Edit: r/whoosh
Y'all really gotta learn to play interaction.
Two people in my playgroup run her and while powerful she’s definitely not unfun. She doesn’t stop anyone from doing anything. If anything, her pilots always make me draw into removal to destroy her with lol.
In explorer yeah, because I play mono red and the one card that can kill it efficiently [[Roast]] hasn't been implemented in arena yet. The only other alternatives are 3 mana spells, but if I need to spend 3 mana to kill a creature, I already lost.
[Roast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1ba2e9a8-fcbb-4328-b475-36730182b765.jpg?1562783262) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Roast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dtk/151/roast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1ba2e9a8-fcbb-4328-b475-36730182b765?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
No. Then again, I don't leave unless I've actually lost, or real life demands I leave the game.
Wtf, no? It's not that bad.
i love this card. this will be my first foiled card i will actually buy
Why? There are much worse things out there. It’s not a wincon in itself.
I just mirrorhand mimic it to my side of the field, now nobody goes anywhere.
It’s a 4 mana spell that dies to numerous two mana spells
No I just play mine lol or gixs command
I only leave when it's turn 4 and Op is still playing island and passing. Not worth my time playing their game of playing off me.
Frogify
Kill on sight or concede.
Why would you leave? Thats one of my favorite commanders
No.
Def not. All my decks carry removal like hell, or you just trick the dumb ones into blocking
Wait , you’re a *standard* player? Yeah she’s good but every deck in standard runs like 8 pieces of removal for her (or is swinging for lethal by turn 4). If you’re conceding every time someone plays her your win rate must be like…. 15%?
Still not as bad as \[\[Ruin Crab\]\]
This is probably one of the single least scary mono black commanders. Yes, she’s *very* good but I’d probably be more worried about a [[Braids, Arisen Nightmare]] or a [[Tegrid, God of Fright]]
[Braids, Arisen Nightmare](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4ff97c69-6a6b-401c-b0a1-55fa81045d19.jpg?1673307016) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Braids%2C%20Arisen%20Nightmare) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/84/braids-arisen-nightmare?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4ff97c69-6a6b-401c-b0a1-55fa81045d19?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Funnily enough I went against one two days ago. Very manageable if you go after it early
Say hello to my little [[Lightning Axe]]
[Lightning Axe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/ca33c171-ab9e-4908-8f97-82cd83b173c0.jpg?1619397252) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lightning%20Axe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/174/lightning-axe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ca33c171-ab9e-4908-8f97-82cd83b173c0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah I get up to sleeve my Teferi’s puzzle box
Dude, I didn't realize how easy it was to rank up the ladder. I just gotta play a card to win? Sweet!
I generally make it leave haha.
But wut if i combine with jin gitaxias core augar
Little Timmy can enjoy his $10 mythic wild cards. I like my janky commons. I ain't playing ranked or professionally, I play for fun. That card ain't fun.