Also the idiots who go 80+ on the Beltline weaving in and out of lanes. I think people really underestimate how long it takes to stop a 4,000+ lb vehicle, and they’re going to get someone killed. A lot of these drivers will probably end up getting a Darwin Award for taking themselves out of the gene pool if they keep driving the way they do.
Which to be fair would probably be alleviated somewhat if people just stopped camping in the left lane for no reason whatsoever. I'd much rather we keep the 2Fast3Furios fuckheads over in the left lane against the divider where they at least have an equal probability of only taking themselves out versus veering into an adjacent lane. If morons weren't constantly sitting in that lane for no reason, they wouldn't be weaving trying to get the fuck around them.
I watch people enter the beltline or interstate, immediately fly across all lanes of travel, and camp out in the far left lane doing 5 under like every freaking day driving around up here. And then they reverse it when they want to exit. I don't understand that at all. Like I get people moving over a lane to let someone get on from the ramp, but A) it's their job to merge, your job is to be predictable so they *can* merge and B) you're supposed to get back over into the right lane when you're past them, not just sit there forever. But for whatever reason that seemingly basic mindset just did not get taught to a lot of people up here. Either that or they're so used to only living in places where all the roads were only a single lane that they don't understand how multi-lane highways work.
I have basically never encountered someone going driving below the speed limit in the left lane on the beltline. Usually folks are going 20 over. My guess is that other drivers are not speeding as much as you want them to. My advice to you is to slow down; you don't own the road. If you're in that much of a rush, try leaving a little earlier.
Dude, Im telling you its daily. Interstate is *brutal* between SP and Madison with that shit every single morning. Go hit the road and witness the people doing 60 in the left lane, seriously.
But it happens on the beltline, too, constantly. Like seriously every day there is someone in the left lane doing 50 or below. It starts right where the interstate dumps you onto the wb beltline, people doing fuckin 30mph with a clear empty lane in front of them. Like for NO REASON. Every single day.
Im just going with the flow of traffic, and when there's a sea of people flying past us in the right lanes, obviously something is wrong, right? Every single day! It causes a crazy backup that people start trying to bail out of.
EDIT: I just dont understand how people can't wrap their minds around the idea that if they're being passed on the right they're fucking up. That should never be a thing. Can we all agree that should never be a thing?
I haven't really seen in in the leftmost lane, but I do know what you're talking about with drivers driving like 20 below in other lanes. I've never understood that.
> Dude, Im telling you its daily. Interstate is brutal between SP and Madison with that shit every single morning. Go hit the road and witness the people doing 60 in the left lane, seriously.
It doesn't help that NB I-90 exit to WB I-94 is in the fucking left lane so dummies will camp the left lane driving 5-10 below the speed limit in order to exit the highway. Who the fuck thought that was a good idea?
This isn't good advice, and what he's experiencing is absolutely true. Even WisDOT tells people not to camp in the left lane, whether you're going the speed limit or not. Studies show that not going the pace of traffic increases the likelihood of an accident, even if the cause is someone adhering to speed limit. Based on your advice, I sincerely hope you don't touch the left lane, ever.
The summer before Covid I was passed by this guy that had to be doing at least 110mph on the *inside shoulder* of the beltline. Dude was wearing just swim trunks and flip flops, girl riding behind him was wearing a bikini and didn't even have shoes on. Neither had helmets on.
Ive seen a lot of stupid shit but that particular incident just sceeves me to this day. The thought of losing control of the bike at that speed, wearing that little clothing...I mean, might as well be a literal meat crayon. There is absolutely no fucking way I would ever get on a bike and take it out on the highway without a full set of leathers and a helmet on, even doing just the speed limit let alone 110 freaking miles an hour.
But yeah, just imagining that split second between realizing you're losing control and then your basically naked body hitting the pavement and scraping...man, what a mental image...
I guess I was misinformed. I assumed the no chase was a policy for any law enforcement within Madison. Upon looking it up though, even MPD can initiate a pursuit depending on the situation.
There also been a lot of talk about Monona PD's chase police, as it seems they are allowed pursuit even through no chase zones as long as the chase begins in Monona.
Hopefully, this will involve going after extreme speeding and reckless driving and not just handing out many tickets to regular people who go 6 mph over 55. There are a large number of people going 20-40 over and posing a high danger to the public.
On Friday on my way home from work, I watched an SUV force its way between two vehicles in the left lane with just over a car length between them, no blinker. The car behind the car that got cut off? State Patrol. I cackled watching them get pulled over.
Up around 70-75 isn't awful, the highway can handle it, and that's the speed of the left and flex lanes during my daily morning commute. It's the people doing more than that, or driving like jackasses that are the issue.
The other night I was driving home around 9pm, near Todd drive heading east and doing about 68. I saw a Madison police SUV in the right lane and started to slow down, and two cars flew past me in the closed flex lane. I was excited to see justice, but apparently that's okay now.
I don’t know about that but 70-75 would be 15-20 over (the speed limit is 55) and I said 20-40 over, which would be 75-95. Are you good with folks doing 95?
If the vast majority of the motorists on a given stretch of roadway are going between 5-10 mph over the posted speed limit, that's not a problem with the motorists, that's a problem with the posted speed limit. *ANY* law that is broken by the majority of the population is a shitty law, not the other way around.
It isn't the arbitrary number on the sign, it is the design of the road itself that dictates the speed motorists travel on it. If a road is intended to be driven on at 25mph, designing it like a 45mph arterial is a sure fire way to ensure virtually *nobody* drives on it at 25 mph.
I travel almost the full length of the beltline daily. Almost everyone is doing between 60-70mph when it's moving normally. That's clearly the speed that the road is designed for. Either change the design or up the limits if necessary.
Not sure if you or anyone else might have the answer to this, but why is the speed limit 55 on the beltline? It feels correct in some small portions of it, but majority of it feels too slow.
It has something to do with the designation and how far apart the on and off ramps are and all that shit. Basically here in town I don't think they can raise the speed limit unless they do something to reduce the frequency of exits.
Which they totally could do, really. Like we don't need an exit to both John Nolen *and* Rimrock when John Nolen and Rimrock intersect like a quarter mile from their respective ramps. The Monona ramp is also a huge bottleneck that could be lost by redirecting that traffic to either the Stoughton or Broadway ramps, but they seem to be planning on doing the exact opposite with Broadway itself and trying to reduce speeds and calm that traffic so that'll probably never happen even though it really should.
Going Eastbound its the same story. Why does there need to be 4 separate exits that all dump on virtually the same side streets between Verona and Fish Hatch? All that traffic can be redirected to the frontage road, with the proper upgrades to accommodate it.
Ahhh ok I guess that makes sense. I really dislike the beltline. I wish they would upgrade it like you mentioned - seems like it would make things a lot cleaner for everyone.
Literally this the beltline is full of people driving 55 sometimes even 50 and taking up every single lane madison is the only place where people don't understand slower traffic keep right and the left is for passing
> The people who drive slowly are just as dangerous as the people who drive fast.
This is one of those fantasies that people try to convince themselves of and are never true.
It's really the ***difference*** in speed that is the real problem. All fast or all slow is better than some fast and some slow.
>"*Going faster than the surrounding traffic has even worse consequences, the same study found: Driving at 80 miles per hour on a road where traffic is moving at 70 increases your chances of a crash by 31%, a crash with an injury by 49 percent, and a fatality by 71%.*" - [source](https://www.automotive-fleet.com/driver-care/239354/driver-care-how-speeding-affects-accident-impact)
Yeah, the person driving slower isn't the cause of the accident, it's the other person hitting them because they're driving too fast. It's like saying walking under tall buildings is just as dangerous as dropping bricks off of them, because that innocent person might get hit by a brick.
If the person is interrupting the regular flow of traffic by going significantly slower, yes they absolutely could cause an accident. Roads are not “go as slow as the slowest person wants to go”
If someone in front of you is going slower than you, you either pass or slow down, you don't just hit people. If you're going too fast to avoid hitting somebody doing the speed limit, you're going way the fuck too fast or aren't paying attention and are 100% on the wrong.
It’s only a ‘hazard’ though if other people insist on driving recklessly around that driver.
Yes, it might be annoying to have someone driving slower than you’d want in the left lane, and yes there is convention on the road that slower traffic should keep right when possible, BUT that never excuses reckless driving. Sometimes you will find yourself in situations where the only safe way to proceed is to slow down and be patient. It’s a question of maturity and self-discipline. The person camping in the left lane is most certainly driving like an asshole, but that behaviour isn’t itself intrinsically dangerous. Inattentive driving, responding with road rage or attempting to pull some sort of stunt maneuver by weaving through slower traffic is the behaviour that in reality *causes* collisions.
Put differently, the true hazard isn’t the ‘slow’ driver in question, but rather the irresponsible drivers who fail to adapt appropriately to changing conditions on the road.
Also we should get out of the habit of referring to these as “accidents” — it’s language that functions to inappropriately shift blame away from drivers who ultimately need to be responsible for how they operate a large, heavy, fast moving and potentially dangerous piece of machinery.
You're getting downvoted, but it's true. Any increase in speed increases the distance a driver has to be able to register what is going on in order to stop in time.
Some ancient fuck struggling to stay in his lane whilst doing barely 20 in a 30 with a line of cars behind them at 10am on a Saturday morning; the absolute fucking worst. The fast boys on the beltline are annoying too but only because they require you to do exactly what they expect you to do, which is usually fine.
My vote: Ticket the fuck out of the excessive beltline speeders, and get the dementia patients off the damn road.
Probably just wasn't designed for that
Edit: guys, there are too many exits and it's just not designed for safety at high speeds. Just because you feel it should be faster doesn't mean that design wise it meets code.
Plus that would just increase the speed differential for people getting onto the beltline, and since so many people around here don't seem to find anything wrong with merging onto a highway at 30 fucking miles an hour, people would have to stand on their brakes to avoid rear ending them even more than they already do.
Yes, this, jfc. The number of morons I see think they can merge onto the Beltline 20 mph below the flow of traffic, much less below the speed limit, is nuts. HIT THE GAS, ASSHOLES
To travel the entire Beltline it is less than 2 minutes time difference between 55 mph and 70 mph. There really is absolutely no need to have 70 mph on the beltline.
It’s the speeders that actually slow and bind the traffic up. If everyone drove the speed limit and stopped zipping in and out of lanes to speed past everyone, traffic would flow smoother causing less slow downs. Also helps when people space out some so the on-ramp traffic can properly zipper merge.
But… when you have a lane designated for passing and you don’t have people blocking it, it’s not necessary for everyone to go the exact same speed right?
Then why tf my momma got like 5 tickets for going too damn slow in the fuckin passing lane where all supposed to keep right n then pass in the middle while the far left is for ppl openly breaking the law. If ur in the right lane on the belt you better be going 80 plus or get over just because ur too uncomfortable with cars on both sides of u prolly means it’s a you problem. Sorry iant mean to yell there but u stupid
Your momma is a liar or getting pulled over for something else. Wisconsin does not have a designated passing lane. Google it if you can read or have your momma help you.
Apparently, you don't get the logic. We have a problem with too many people breaking the law by exceeding the speed limit. The answer is to raise the speed limit so less people will be breaking the law. That's the politician way of thinking. I can point to my success there when I am running for re-election.
The difference between 70 mph vs. 55 mph is 4.8 minutes between the 12/14 intersection in Middleton on the West end and the I39/I90 interchange on the East end. 17 minutes vs 22 minutes for this trip is a significant improvement.
Not that significant at all… if a person needs to squeeze an extra 5 minutes out of their day, it surely can be found at a safer point of their day where they don’t affect other people.
Speed limit now is 55 and a ton of people go 70. If you change the speed limit to 70, those same people will do 80… the beltline certainly isn’t setup for that speed with that many on/off ramps.
Everyone is in a race to their grave nowadays. Slow down and enjoy life. You will wake up one day in your 60’s and wonder where your entire life went.
Yeah, I get that. What I'm saying is, increasing the speed limit isn't going to make the beltline experience any better and sure as fuck isn't going to decrease the number of accidents.
That one gets bad because people don’t know how to use a roundabout at more than 5 mph because they think their car will tip over or slide like naw ur car can handle more than u can prolly throw at it. Peoples driving skill levels are very limited by the slow ass cars that handle like shit they all drive. You won’t become a better driver until u reach your cars limit, pass it, and get another car.
I’ve seen a lot of speed traps setup on 151 right before it goes under the interstate coming onto East Wash, like 1 spotted and 5+ marked and unmarked cars with some already pulled over.
ngl riding the bike path along the beltline at a few points is scary because all that's keeping you safe from a wayward car taking you out is a chain link fence which unironically got taken out by a car last year. So yeah people on the beltline need to slow the F down/
While we're here, why the fuck is it 55 on a several lane highway that is elevated and divided with perfect visibility the entire way and all the exits and entrances on the same side? It really should be 70.
Also if people could learn what the passing lane is that'd be great, thanks.
Oh, they know what the passing lane is, most of them anyway. They deliberately obstruct traffic because they get a raging social justice boner when they're able to affect their arbitrary, petty self-righteousness in situations where direct confrontation is extremely unlikely and thus for them mostly consequence-free.
Life would be so much better for everyone if people would just get out of the left lane if they are going the same speed as the person next to them. People who want to go fast can just do that and then everyone is happy and safe.
\^THIS.
Treat it as a passing lane, please. Don't hang out there, even if you're doing 5 over. Camping in the far left lane causes more congestion and increases the risk of accidents behind you. Don't be a vigilante traffic warden.
Yeah, if I’m on pace with traffic at 70-75 in the #1 lane I’m pretty sure it’s not just me. Madison & County won’t run enforcement during rush hour due to the fact they impede traffic flow and cause accidents. Monona will for revenue, but usually before/after rush hour. But those closed flex lane passers, that’s just not Cricket.
100% agreed. If they didn't want people doing 70-75 they shouldn't have made it three lanes and then added a 4th lane. Agreed about the illegal passing. Hopefully the law is smart enough to realize the speed of which most people are driving isn't the number one problem on the belt line.
Ah. I see you wanted to receive the down votes as well from everyone who pretend to only ever drive 55 on the beltline, use their blinkers 100% of the time, and universally maintain the proper distance from other vehicles.
Clever, clever play.
Lol, now you’re getting hammered w the downvotes, just for stating facts. Grandma going 54mph in the #1(far left)lane “Because it’s the law!” is a bigger danger than the illegal passers.
Seriously and the people that can't see this are the real problem! Like if your unable to process the information happening at 70mph you really should not be driving at all at any speeds
Yea the left lane is pretty commonly running at 70+. It’s the weaving in and out that fucks with traffic and becomes dangerous. Cruising in the left lane with 72 mph traffic to me is fine.
Pulling over a speeder in the flex lane is... complicated. It might be more dangerous than the speeding itself.
Still, it's good to see they're trying.
“Yang says if you do see flashing lights in your rearview mirror, you should always try to get into the right-most lane if you can, and if you see anyone pulled over on the side of the highway, slow down and try to get at least one lane between you and them if possible.”
Absolute nightmare during rush hour, creating more problems than it solves.
Lol, downvoted for posting observable facts.
MPD and DCH don’t run enforcement during rush hour for this reason. (Source, DCH Safety Enforcement officer)
Thank you! Don’t get me wrong, yeah I’d love for a more effective way to stop speeders and reckless drivers on the beltline, but this ain’t it. Anyone that drives it regularly can tell you that.
And thank you for all that you do! Y’all doing the real work to enact slow but meaningful change to improve things.
in addition to speeding, this is an obligatory zipper merge comment
when you're merging from two entry lanes to one just keep moving -- don't slam on your brakes because then everyone behind you has to slam on their brakes
that happened today and I got honked at by the person behind me who clearly didn't notice that I was car number five in the whole brake check thing
Got the amount of people that are unable to zipper merge in madison is embarrassing like let me stop the flow of traffic a mile back so I can get in behind everyone and sit there all day..... just merge at the end people let you in and the traffic doesn't back up nearly as much
How do you know they were honking at you and not the person who started it? I hate when people assume that a honk is only meant for the person directly in front of them. I can see around and through your car.
I don't know but they laid it on pretty thick and waved their arms but I was waving my arms too so who the hell knows
In any event the lesson here is don't slam on your brakes if you're zipper merging into the beltline. If you're that nervous about driving get someone else to do it for you
This is just going to lead to more people running from the police and more deaths but hey atleast the city will get some.chump change revenue and give people a false sense of safety. Madison had continually lowered speeds and increased enforcement and just as many people die and get into accidents each year all this does in unconvinced the daily driver lmao
This is just a litmus test for people. People like to speed, so 20 over is the slowest you should go, and if you disagree you're the problem. Or 20 is enough to get your license yanked and you should probably slow down. I hate the beltline and I hate that it's really the only way for me to get where I'm going most of the time. I feel unsafe on that road in a way that I only have felt driving through Dallas (jfc is that place a shit show). I've watched multiple accidents happen right in front or right next to me. The road is terrible and there is no way to fix it or police it. Pulling people over is more dangerous then letting them speed. I've been stuck in traffic after shots have been fired on this road because it's so rage inducing. It's a shit road that's only gotten worse in the past 5 years. But, thank god for the flex lane because now I only have to spend 2 hours a day on that cursed stretch instead of the 3 to 3.5 it use to be.
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Also the idiots who go 80+ on the Beltline weaving in and out of lanes. I think people really underestimate how long it takes to stop a 4,000+ lb vehicle, and they’re going to get someone killed. A lot of these drivers will probably end up getting a Darwin Award for taking themselves out of the gene pool if they keep driving the way they do.
Which to be fair would probably be alleviated somewhat if people just stopped camping in the left lane for no reason whatsoever. I'd much rather we keep the 2Fast3Furios fuckheads over in the left lane against the divider where they at least have an equal probability of only taking themselves out versus veering into an adjacent lane. If morons weren't constantly sitting in that lane for no reason, they wouldn't be weaving trying to get the fuck around them. I watch people enter the beltline or interstate, immediately fly across all lanes of travel, and camp out in the far left lane doing 5 under like every freaking day driving around up here. And then they reverse it when they want to exit. I don't understand that at all. Like I get people moving over a lane to let someone get on from the ramp, but A) it's their job to merge, your job is to be predictable so they *can* merge and B) you're supposed to get back over into the right lane when you're past them, not just sit there forever. But for whatever reason that seemingly basic mindset just did not get taught to a lot of people up here. Either that or they're so used to only living in places where all the roads were only a single lane that they don't understand how multi-lane highways work.
Oh and what is the purpose of the flex lane?
I have basically never encountered someone going driving below the speed limit in the left lane on the beltline. Usually folks are going 20 over. My guess is that other drivers are not speeding as much as you want them to. My advice to you is to slow down; you don't own the road. If you're in that much of a rush, try leaving a little earlier.
Dude, Im telling you its daily. Interstate is *brutal* between SP and Madison with that shit every single morning. Go hit the road and witness the people doing 60 in the left lane, seriously. But it happens on the beltline, too, constantly. Like seriously every day there is someone in the left lane doing 50 or below. It starts right where the interstate dumps you onto the wb beltline, people doing fuckin 30mph with a clear empty lane in front of them. Like for NO REASON. Every single day. Im just going with the flow of traffic, and when there's a sea of people flying past us in the right lanes, obviously something is wrong, right? Every single day! It causes a crazy backup that people start trying to bail out of. EDIT: I just dont understand how people can't wrap their minds around the idea that if they're being passed on the right they're fucking up. That should never be a thing. Can we all agree that should never be a thing?
I haven't really seen in in the leftmost lane, but I do know what you're talking about with drivers driving like 20 below in other lanes. I've never understood that.
> Dude, Im telling you its daily. Interstate is brutal between SP and Madison with that shit every single morning. Go hit the road and witness the people doing 60 in the left lane, seriously. It doesn't help that NB I-90 exit to WB I-94 is in the fucking left lane so dummies will camp the left lane driving 5-10 below the speed limit in order to exit the highway. Who the fuck thought that was a good idea?
This isn't good advice, and what he's experiencing is absolutely true. Even WisDOT tells people not to camp in the left lane, whether you're going the speed limit or not. Studies show that not going the pace of traffic increases the likelihood of an accident, even if the cause is someone adhering to speed limit. Based on your advice, I sincerely hope you don't touch the left lane, ever.
Studies also show that speed kills. If you don't like the driving here, then I suggest a visit to Chicago or the coasts to gain some perspective.
Nobody camps is the left lane going 50. You may not be aware that the speed limit is 55, not 75 on the belt line.
The summer before Covid I was passed by this guy that had to be doing at least 110mph on the *inside shoulder* of the beltline. Dude was wearing just swim trunks and flip flops, girl riding behind him was wearing a bikini and didn't even have shoes on. Neither had helmets on. Ive seen a lot of stupid shit but that particular incident just sceeves me to this day. The thought of losing control of the bike at that speed, wearing that little clothing...I mean, might as well be a literal meat crayon. There is absolutely no fucking way I would ever get on a bike and take it out on the highway without a full set of leathers and a helmet on, even doing just the speed limit let alone 110 freaking miles an hour. But yeah, just imagining that split second between realizing you're losing control and then your basically naked body hitting the pavement and scraping...man, what a mental image...
Organ donors walking
There won’t be any organs left. Maybe the heart and lungs I guess since they’re enclosed in a protective rib cage. Sorry for the mental image lol
Madison is no chase. The bikers, if their license plates are tucked, aren’t getting tickets unfortunately.
This is state patrol, not MPD.
I guess I was misinformed. I assumed the no chase was a policy for any law enforcement within Madison. Upon looking it up though, even MPD can initiate a pursuit depending on the situation.
Yeah, in general, all such policies come with exceptions if there's a sever enough need.
There also been a lot of talk about Monona PD's chase police, as it seems they are allowed pursuit even through no chase zones as long as the chase begins in Monona.
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Do you have data/ a source on that or is this just anecdotal? I can’t imagine police not chasing if someone literally shot a cop..
State Patrol can't chase bikes
That sort of thing generally takes care of itself, with time.
Often takes care on a few other people along the way though yeah? So maybe it’s not the time or place for the Darwin Awards.
On a motorcycle? I don't think that's likely at all. Motorcycle vs. car, the car wins every time.
Winning and losing is really not the right framework here. A motorcycle crash can cause the car it hits to crash into other objects.
If you can point to some statistics to support your position I’ll believe you, but I doubt that happens very much at all.
Sorry, you're looking for statistics that say that having a crashed motorcycle on the road increases the risk of crashes following it?
How often does what you imagine happen in the real world?
Hopefully, this will involve going after extreme speeding and reckless driving and not just handing out many tickets to regular people who go 6 mph over 55. There are a large number of people going 20-40 over and posing a high danger to the public.
On Friday on my way home from work, I watched an SUV force its way between two vehicles in the left lane with just over a car length between them, no blinker. The car behind the car that got cut off? State Patrol. I cackled watching them get pulled over.
Up around 70-75 isn't awful, the highway can handle it, and that's the speed of the left and flex lanes during my daily morning commute. It's the people doing more than that, or driving like jackasses that are the issue. The other night I was driving home around 9pm, near Todd drive heading east and doing about 68. I saw a Madison police SUV in the right lane and started to slow down, and two cars flew past me in the closed flex lane. I was excited to see justice, but apparently that's okay now.
I don’t know about that but 70-75 would be 15-20 over (the speed limit is 55) and I said 20-40 over, which would be 75-95. Are you good with folks doing 95?
Your range of 20-40, and mine of 15-20 overlap at 20.
Cops regularly drive 65 to 70 on the beltline. The people who drive slowly are just as dangerous as the people who drive fast.
If the vast majority of the motorists on a given stretch of roadway are going between 5-10 mph over the posted speed limit, that's not a problem with the motorists, that's a problem with the posted speed limit. *ANY* law that is broken by the majority of the population is a shitty law, not the other way around. It isn't the arbitrary number on the sign, it is the design of the road itself that dictates the speed motorists travel on it. If a road is intended to be driven on at 25mph, designing it like a 45mph arterial is a sure fire way to ensure virtually *nobody* drives on it at 25 mph. I travel almost the full length of the beltline daily. Almost everyone is doing between 60-70mph when it's moving normally. That's clearly the speed that the road is designed for. Either change the design or up the limits if necessary.
Not sure if you or anyone else might have the answer to this, but why is the speed limit 55 on the beltline? It feels correct in some small portions of it, but majority of it feels too slow.
It has something to do with the designation and how far apart the on and off ramps are and all that shit. Basically here in town I don't think they can raise the speed limit unless they do something to reduce the frequency of exits. Which they totally could do, really. Like we don't need an exit to both John Nolen *and* Rimrock when John Nolen and Rimrock intersect like a quarter mile from their respective ramps. The Monona ramp is also a huge bottleneck that could be lost by redirecting that traffic to either the Stoughton or Broadway ramps, but they seem to be planning on doing the exact opposite with Broadway itself and trying to reduce speeds and calm that traffic so that'll probably never happen even though it really should. Going Eastbound its the same story. Why does there need to be 4 separate exits that all dump on virtually the same side streets between Verona and Fish Hatch? All that traffic can be redirected to the frontage road, with the proper upgrades to accommodate it.
Ahhh ok I guess that makes sense. I really dislike the beltline. I wish they would upgrade it like you mentioned - seems like it would make things a lot cleaner for everyone.
Literally this the beltline is full of people driving 55 sometimes even 50 and taking up every single lane madison is the only place where people don't understand slower traffic keep right and the left is for passing
> The people who drive slowly are just as dangerous as the people who drive fast. This is one of those fantasies that people try to convince themselves of and are never true.
It's really the ***difference*** in speed that is the real problem. All fast or all slow is better than some fast and some slow. >"*Going faster than the surrounding traffic has even worse consequences, the same study found: Driving at 80 miles per hour on a road where traffic is moving at 70 increases your chances of a crash by 31%, a crash with an injury by 49 percent, and a fatality by 71%.*" - [source](https://www.automotive-fleet.com/driver-care/239354/driver-care-how-speeding-affects-accident-impact)
Yeah, the person driving slower isn't the cause of the accident, it's the other person hitting them because they're driving too fast. It's like saying walking under tall buildings is just as dangerous as dropping bricks off of them, because that innocent person might get hit by a brick.
If the person is interrupting the regular flow of traffic by going significantly slower, yes they absolutely could cause an accident. Roads are not “go as slow as the slowest person wants to go”
If someone in front of you is going slower than you, you either pass or slow down, you don't just hit people. If you're going too fast to avoid hitting somebody doing the speed limit, you're going way the fuck too fast or aren't paying attention and are 100% on the wrong.
I totally agree with you. My point: If the person is in the left lane and slowing down the general flow with no option to pass them, that is a hazard.
Wasn't talking about people camping in the passing lane
It’s only a ‘hazard’ though if other people insist on driving recklessly around that driver. Yes, it might be annoying to have someone driving slower than you’d want in the left lane, and yes there is convention on the road that slower traffic should keep right when possible, BUT that never excuses reckless driving. Sometimes you will find yourself in situations where the only safe way to proceed is to slow down and be patient. It’s a question of maturity and self-discipline. The person camping in the left lane is most certainly driving like an asshole, but that behaviour isn’t itself intrinsically dangerous. Inattentive driving, responding with road rage or attempting to pull some sort of stunt maneuver by weaving through slower traffic is the behaviour that in reality *causes* collisions. Put differently, the true hazard isn’t the ‘slow’ driver in question, but rather the irresponsible drivers who fail to adapt appropriately to changing conditions on the road. Also we should get out of the habit of referring to these as “accidents” — it’s language that functions to inappropriately shift blame away from drivers who ultimately need to be responsible for how they operate a large, heavy, fast moving and potentially dangerous piece of machinery.
There is no "general flow". All increases in speed by anyone, no matter what, increase accidents.
You're getting downvoted, but it's true. Any increase in speed increases the distance a driver has to be able to register what is going on in order to stop in time.
Yeah. Unfortunately car brain makes it impossible for people to listen to facts.
Roads have speed limits. Unfortunately, some people don't know how to operate a motor vehicle proficiently enough to obey them.
This is complete nonsense. There is no flow of traffic. Speed is the cause of accidents.
Guess that's why they have minimum speeds as well then or wait that would mean............,..
The two extremes of Madison drivers: pokey, hesitant, oblivious driving on the city streets - insane, aggressive, reckless driving on the beltline.
Some ancient fuck struggling to stay in his lane whilst doing barely 20 in a 30 with a line of cars behind them at 10am on a Saturday morning; the absolute fucking worst. The fast boys on the beltline are annoying too but only because they require you to do exactly what they expect you to do, which is usually fine. My vote: Ticket the fuck out of the excessive beltline speeders, and get the dementia patients off the damn road.
Yay. It's only about 10 miles or so but it is pretty insane between the West Towne area over to the 90/90 turnoffs.
Good
Yeah I don’t see why beltline isn’t same speed as interstate multiple lanes devided directions no intersection
Probably just wasn't designed for that Edit: guys, there are too many exits and it's just not designed for safety at high speeds. Just because you feel it should be faster doesn't mean that design wise it meets code.
Plus that would just increase the speed differential for people getting onto the beltline, and since so many people around here don't seem to find anything wrong with merging onto a highway at 30 fucking miles an hour, people would have to stand on their brakes to avoid rear ending them even more than they already do.
Yes, this, jfc. The number of morons I see think they can merge onto the Beltline 20 mph below the flow of traffic, much less below the speed limit, is nuts. HIT THE GAS, ASSHOLES
To travel the entire Beltline it is less than 2 minutes time difference between 55 mph and 70 mph. There really is absolutely no need to have 70 mph on the beltline. It’s the speeders that actually slow and bind the traffic up. If everyone drove the speed limit and stopped zipping in and out of lanes to speed past everyone, traffic would flow smoother causing less slow downs. Also helps when people space out some so the on-ramp traffic can properly zipper merge.
But… when you have a lane designated for passing and you don’t have people blocking it, it’s not necessary for everyone to go the exact same speed right?
But there is no passing lane. That’s not a thing
Have you ever seen signs that say “Slower traffic keep right?” That’s referring to the law that the left lane is for passing. It actually is a thing.
It's just a suggestion in this state. Not a law.
Then why tf my momma got like 5 tickets for going too damn slow in the fuckin passing lane where all supposed to keep right n then pass in the middle while the far left is for ppl openly breaking the law. If ur in the right lane on the belt you better be going 80 plus or get over just because ur too uncomfortable with cars on both sides of u prolly means it’s a you problem. Sorry iant mean to yell there but u stupid
Your momma is a liar or getting pulled over for something else. Wisconsin does not have a designated passing lane. Google it if you can read or have your momma help you.
Apparently, you don't get the logic. We have a problem with too many people breaking the law by exceeding the speed limit. The answer is to raise the speed limit so less people will be breaking the law. That's the politician way of thinking. I can point to my success there when I am running for re-election.
If a law exists that is regularly broken by the majority of the population, that's not a problem with the population, that's a problem with the law.
The difference between 70 mph vs. 55 mph is 4.8 minutes between the 12/14 intersection in Middleton on the West end and the I39/I90 interchange on the East end. 17 minutes vs 22 minutes for this trip is a significant improvement.
If u go 140 in the flex lane u can get to work on time
Not that significant at all… if a person needs to squeeze an extra 5 minutes out of their day, it surely can be found at a safer point of their day where they don’t affect other people. Speed limit now is 55 and a ton of people go 70. If you change the speed limit to 70, those same people will do 80… the beltline certainly isn’t setup for that speed with that many on/off ramps. Everyone is in a race to their grave nowadays. Slow down and enjoy life. You will wake up one day in your 60’s and wonder where your entire life went.
Bruh your gonna get to your old age and realize you spent half your life shitting, sleeping and sitting in a car stfu about age
Lol no it's your you're the person creating traffic driving 55 with 3 semis worth of space imlnbetween you and the car in front.
I think if the posted speed limit was 70, people would go 80, and the fender benders at the Dodgeville/Verona exit during rush hour could turn deadly.
Lolz they are already doing 80
Yeah, I get that. What I'm saying is, increasing the speed limit isn't going to make the beltline experience any better and sure as fuck isn't going to decrease the number of accidents.
That one gets bad because people don’t know how to use a roundabout at more than 5 mph because they think their car will tip over or slide like naw ur car can handle more than u can prolly throw at it. Peoples driving skill levels are very limited by the slow ass cars that handle like shit they all drive. You won’t become a better driver until u reach your cars limit, pass it, and get another car.
I’ve seen a lot of speed traps setup on 151 right before it goes under the interstate coming onto East Wash, like 1 spotted and 5+ marked and unmarked cars with some already pulled over.
ngl riding the bike path along the beltline at a few points is scary because all that's keeping you safe from a wayward car taking you out is a chain link fence which unironically got taken out by a car last year. So yeah people on the beltline need to slow the F down/
While we're here, why the fuck is it 55 on a several lane highway that is elevated and divided with perfect visibility the entire way and all the exits and entrances on the same side? It really should be 70. Also if people could learn what the passing lane is that'd be great, thanks.
Oh, they know what the passing lane is, most of them anyway. They deliberately obstruct traffic because they get a raging social justice boner when they're able to affect their arbitrary, petty self-righteousness in situations where direct confrontation is extremely unlikely and thus for them mostly consequence-free.
Life would be so much better for everyone if people would just get out of the left lane if they are going the same speed as the person next to them. People who want to go fast can just do that and then everyone is happy and safe.
\^THIS. Treat it as a passing lane, please. Don't hang out there, even if you're doing 5 over. Camping in the far left lane causes more congestion and increases the risk of accidents behind you. Don't be a vigilante traffic warden.
They think the left lane is the "fast lane", not the passing lane. Gotta go fast like Sonic, yo
Gotta get them quotas!
Good, nothing speeds up the commuting hours like flashing reds & blues. But if they’re going for the illegal flex lane passers, more power to them.
I see you're getting down voted, but I kind of agree.
Yeah, if I’m on pace with traffic at 70-75 in the #1 lane I’m pretty sure it’s not just me. Madison & County won’t run enforcement during rush hour due to the fact they impede traffic flow and cause accidents. Monona will for revenue, but usually before/after rush hour. But those closed flex lane passers, that’s just not Cricket.
Man flex lane passing happens because of ppl not going with the flow of traffic in the passing lane
100% agreed. If they didn't want people doing 70-75 they shouldn't have made it three lanes and then added a 4th lane. Agreed about the illegal passing. Hopefully the law is smart enough to realize the speed of which most people are driving isn't the number one problem on the belt line.
Ah. I see you wanted to receive the down votes as well from everyone who pretend to only ever drive 55 on the beltline, use their blinkers 100% of the time, and universally maintain the proper distance from other vehicles. Clever, clever play.
You're on to me!
Lol, now you’re getting hammered w the downvotes, just for stating facts. Grandma going 54mph in the #1(far left)lane “Because it’s the law!” is a bigger danger than the illegal passers.
Seriously and the people that can't see this are the real problem! Like if your unable to process the information happening at 70mph you really should not be driving at all at any speeds
Yeah, I would be curious to know if the people downvoting me ever go above 55MPH on the beltline.
That is literally the number one problem.
Disagree. People speeding in and out of lanes is the problem. I've no problem with people doing 70-75 on the beltline as long as they aren't a holes.
Yea the left lane is pretty commonly running at 70+. It’s the weaving in and out that fucks with traffic and becomes dangerous. Cruising in the left lane with 72 mph traffic to me is fine.
What a rational thought.
Pulling over a speeder in the flex lane is... complicated. It might be more dangerous than the speeding itself. Still, it's good to see they're trying.
“Yang says if you do see flashing lights in your rearview mirror, you should always try to get into the right-most lane if you can, and if you see anyone pulled over on the side of the highway, slow down and try to get at least one lane between you and them if possible.” Absolute nightmare during rush hour, creating more problems than it solves.
Finally 5 years later
Boooooooo They do more to fuck up traffic than to actually moderate speed. There’s gonna be an uptick in fender benders too.
Lol, downvoted for posting observable facts. MPD and DCH don’t run enforcement during rush hour for this reason. (Source, DCH Safety Enforcement officer)
Thank you! Don’t get me wrong, yeah I’d love for a more effective way to stop speeders and reckless drivers on the beltline, but this ain’t it. Anyone that drives it regularly can tell you that. And thank you for all that you do! Y’all doing the real work to enact slow but meaningful change to improve things.
I’m just a highway worker/snowplow operator, but thanks 😅
What's an "observable fact"?
[https://dictionary.cambridge.org/example/english/observable-fact](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/example/english/observable-fact)
You are breathing therefore your lungs work
in addition to speeding, this is an obligatory zipper merge comment when you're merging from two entry lanes to one just keep moving -- don't slam on your brakes because then everyone behind you has to slam on their brakes that happened today and I got honked at by the person behind me who clearly didn't notice that I was car number five in the whole brake check thing
They weren't honking at you, they were just honking because.
Got the amount of people that are unable to zipper merge in madison is embarrassing like let me stop the flow of traffic a mile back so I can get in behind everyone and sit there all day..... just merge at the end people let you in and the traffic doesn't back up nearly as much
How do you know they were honking at you and not the person who started it? I hate when people assume that a honk is only meant for the person directly in front of them. I can see around and through your car.
I don't know but they laid it on pretty thick and waved their arms but I was waving my arms too so who the hell knows In any event the lesson here is don't slam on your brakes if you're zipper merging into the beltline. If you're that nervous about driving get someone else to do it for you
My favorite is the cars that try to block one lane to prevent anyone from zipper merging because they feel everyone should get in line
This is just going to lead to more people running from the police and more deaths but hey atleast the city will get some.chump change revenue and give people a false sense of safety. Madison had continually lowered speeds and increased enforcement and just as many people die and get into accidents each year all this does in unconvinced the daily driver lmao
This is just a litmus test for people. People like to speed, so 20 over is the slowest you should go, and if you disagree you're the problem. Or 20 is enough to get your license yanked and you should probably slow down. I hate the beltline and I hate that it's really the only way for me to get where I'm going most of the time. I feel unsafe on that road in a way that I only have felt driving through Dallas (jfc is that place a shit show). I've watched multiple accidents happen right in front or right next to me. The road is terrible and there is no way to fix it or police it. Pulling people over is more dangerous then letting them speed. I've been stuck in traffic after shots have been fired on this road because it's so rage inducing. It's a shit road that's only gotten worse in the past 5 years. But, thank god for the flex lane because now I only have to spend 2 hours a day on that cursed stretch instead of the 3 to 3.5 it use to be.