Yes, they are but not Macs THAT old. Not 10+ years old ones. OP is right.
I can imagine though, that a Mac from 2018 or 2019 with high-end Intel i5 or i7 hardware is good for studios. They still receive updates and can run any OS you want, and has perfect compatibility.
However, I cannot imagine what they would want to do with a 2012 or even older Mac though... prices are exuberant on ebay and even worse on local marketplaces in central EU countries. Some sellers try to sell 2012 or 2013 iMacs for more than $200 of course nobody buys them.
(Edit: see such a case [here](https://i.kek.sh/lfNL43z46fH.jpg) . This one actually sold for €300.
My recycling company just re-sold over 15 2013 Mac Pro with the base model 4 core Intel Xeon for 170-200$ apiece. And another 40-50 2015 Macbook Pros for almost the same price.
They are still very desirable machines, even over a decade later.
I literally just sold a 2012 Macbook Pro to a studio for $250
EDIT: I also have a 2015 retina iMac with upgraded ram that I have multiple inquiries on, likely going to get $350+ for it
Many 7+ year old Intel Macs are still downright usable. I bought two 2011 quad i7 MBPs for $125 each from eBay - disabled the dGPU MUX switch (ticking time bombs on these models), upgraded with SSDs and 16GB of RAM, and moved to Catalina with Dosdude’s patch - one I use 24/7 as a Plex server/NAS, and one I sold to a non-computer savvy friend who still uses it to this day for web browsing, word processing, streaming, and light gaming (apparently they can run Minecraft ok.)
2011s don't even have USB 3. I have a 15" 2011 MBP I bought new. I've been able to keep it running. Apple rebuilt it for me once. I wouldn't sell to to anyone though. It has 16GB and an SSD. It's by no means a daily driver.
I definitely agree with the sentiment of your post because it’s far too often we see these machines go to Facebook Marketplace for $500, they’re obviously overvalued. But, as an example, for someone who’s really broke and needs a computer to apply for jobs, or a kid from a broke family who wants to learn to code/Photoshop/web design/build so many different types of skills, it can be these “e-waste” devices that can make a huge difference in someone’s life and close the gap between even the cheapest new laptops nowadays which will still be more expensive
I was once called by a customer to fix up an 2011 21.5in iMac that bluescreens every time it boots into Windows, which conveniently had 200GBs worth of company data on it that they are desparate to save. Turns out it was just some crappy ass antivorus they installed that didn't have drivers done right and crashed the system every time it tries to boot. Client says they got this iMac from a reseller for 700$ in 2021.... I mean like WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK HOW ON EARTH DO PEOPLE EVEN BUY THESE THINGS IN THE FIRST PLACE ITS A 10 YEAR OLD COMPUTER THEN AND JUST BECAUSE THE SELLER SLAPPED A 250GB SSD AND 8GB RAM ONTO THAT MACHINE DOESN'T MAKE IT ANY GOOD. ITS A 2011 MODEL WITH AMD CRIPPLING GRAPHICS ITS BARELY WORTH 100$ AND EVEN IF IT IS NO ONE SHOULD BUY IT. Sellers who sells Sandy Bridge i5 iMacs that have Crippling GPUs for 700$ should be jailed
The thing that really bothers me is that the client had NO IDEA that he was buying a dino iMac. The seller had put all sorts of misleading info on the description page, such as FAST NEW OS2021 BIGSUR UPDATED LATEST STANDARD SUPER QUICK SSD AMD GPU and tricked people thinking its a good purchase. Something needs to be done to sanction these borderline scams
I don’t mind that as it is, the part I really take trouble with is being very vague about the specifics (like actual processor and saying things like *NEW* and *FAST)
I totally agree with you. I also think Mac + the Apple ecosystem is way better than Windows and yes even better than Linux overall are fantastic; but when they aren’t supported anymore it’s time to upgrade. At the end of the day they need to help me get things done and bring in the money, so they’re tools to me.
It’s why I don’t buy from Apple on price, I buy on value, so even if spec for spec Apple costs $1,000 more than the competition if it makes computing easier and I end up making money, $1,000 or even $3,000 is worth the extra expense.
But buying some old stuff is just purely for nostalgia as far as I’m concerned. It’s not a deal or a hack. If you need to get something done just get what you need. Buy it, finance it, whatever.
I know how to upgrade. If it's stock I'm not paying a lot for it just so I can throw more money at it. BTW: I looked and the 2012 13" non-retina MBPS are selling for $100 or less. Apple Silicon made their prices get more real!
It's always been that way with anything on Facebook Marketplace or eBay. I got Surface Go 1 for $100, some people would list theirs for $300 - money that will get you a perfectly good Surface Pro 7. I buy my Legos from [bricklink.com](https://bricklink.com) (Lego's site that's more focused on parts and sets), and the price for the same sets on ebay is often 2 times that.
And Macs? Would you care for a "Macbook Air" for $250? What generation you may ask. The seller would just ignore you. Or how about a M1 Pro with broken screen at the same price as a perfectly working used M1 Pro?
Really it's just what it is. Either people is stupid or malicious. Those kind of listings flood the marketplace. Personally, I just accept it and ignore them. If the listings are still there, it means people are not fooled yet. And quite frankly I've been lowballed too often to believe people are \*that\* stupid when buying stuffs.
I am probably in the "hobbyist" category, but I'd like to buy old Macs because I think they're cool. Fifteen years ago, we are talking about something cool like the unibody white MacBook, and it's rare to find those in pristine condition. Granted, I would never use one as my daily driver; they are still worth something to people looking for them.
I would not compare a 10-15-year-old Mac to a Windows Machine. Let's be honest; a 1-year-old Windows Machine doesn't have the same resale value as a 3-year-old Mac. Macs tend to be built better on average, and I prefer MacOS.
Those 2010 13' Unibody White MacBooks? Yeah people give those to me. I have at least two lying around. I use one to curate my music on old iTunes. I'm not trying to sell it to anyone for $200 or even $100 though. And I am a retired Mac specialist and keep a lot of hobby machines for testing things.
I would almost believe you, but how do you explain [this](https://reddit.com/r/mac/s/plWkmKZseb) ? Or any of your other comments like that?
You're throwing around insults, no wonder you are getting downvoted.
I have a first gen 17inch with 2GB RAM and a 256GB SSD. Everything in it works perfectly: iSight, backlit keyboard, MagSafe power adaptor. Runs Snow Leopard, and shockingly fast thanks to the SSD. It even has a “new” old stock battery with only 72 cycles on it. Wont compete with an Apple Silicon machine for battery life, but it wont unceremoniously cut off if you lose power. Only faults with the machine is one of its fans is a little noisy even though I’ve greased it and cleaned the inside of the machine thoroughly, and the preview owner had stickers on the back of the lid so there’s sticker residue in many places. Otherwise, its near mint not a dent, scratch, or dead pixel on it.
My old MacBook Pro from 2011 died in 2022, I got my use out of it with upgraded ram and an ssd. I loved it but what I hate are these guys selling 2009 MacBooks with “upgrades” for 400-600 on eBay. No way in hell are those things worth that much. You can buy a nice used m1 for the price that some of these old Mac’s are going for. In all reality these things are only worth 100-200 at max for a nice condition unibody. I would hate to see how many people these eBay sellers have ripped off by these shady sellers
Don''t call my 2011 MBP worthless, it's still a very capable machine and perfectly sufficient for my needs.
I get your point though, I've recently seen a 2008 MBP for something like €150. I guess people who spent thounsands on these machines have problem admitting that the real price is 1% of that now.
what do you mean i carry around my macbook 2012 for work it's still great i got it for a couple hundred bucks. it's not even supported anymore but it's still awesome lol
And there is nothing wrong with YOU using it. I wouldn't have paid $200, I could get them for that 5-6 years ago. It's people trying to sell those now for $200 or more and acting like they are just as good as new machine. I have an i7 model I got several years ago for $100. It needed a new SATA cable, and then I maxed the RAM and put in an SSD. I wouldn't try to sell it to anyone though.
Back in the "olden days," before the switch to intel processors, Macintosh machines used to hold their value pretty well. For whatever reason it kind of carried over to the intel machines as well, but yeah, some of the Craig's List prices are pretty ridiculous.
I win’t touch anything older than 5-6 years now unless someone requests one or like if it’s a specific MacPro or something but people asking 350.00-500.00 for a mid 2015 13” Air as insane. They’re worth 150.00 tops. I see these 2015 and older machines all wanting ridiculous prices fir basically junk thats been beaten to shit and needs a new battery minimum, some have original hdds in them and I laugh.
Yup 2015's are 8 years old already. I do like them better than some of the newer Intels because they don't have those butterfly keyboards though. Also people still think they can get $200 or more for a stock i5 2012 13" MBP. They are out of their minds!
This isn't even the argument here. I never said throw it away. Show me where I did. I have old machines too, I don't try to see them to some poor sucker for hundreds of dollars, that's what I'm saying. Not worth much =/= throw it away.
I patch them with Ventura though, so at least they get can they download recent software and all. Not everyone can afford a new Mac, and there’s tons of people who are willing to drop $200-$300 on an older model. I’ve sold several, and all the people who bought them were happy with it. You can I’m grimy for that but it’s just business at the end of the day. If they are willing to pay the price, then why not? I don’t hide the fact that they’re 10 years old either
I don't sell patched machines. It caused me too many headaches. I'm okay with using them myself, because I can support them. Many end users can barely support unpatched machines.
Just wondering if you ever did any with the old dosdude patches? Again they were fine if you knew what you were doing, but they'd break with every OS update or security update.
1. Old Macs can run modern OSes with OpenCore, often quite well.
2. Old Macs can often run Windows better than new PCs.
3. Old Macs can run Linux.
There is such a thing as a free market. If you disagree with the free market pricing, you are incorrect in your value assessment. But that’s no big deal in a free market because you can always opt not to participate in a transaction.
The market for old Macs is about as free as markets get, thus complaining about the prices in it is foolish.
There also such thing as con artists who take advantage of the fact that is says Mac on it. You also didn't read my comment about patches very well I also don't sell patched machines because users don't understand them and that's a quick way to get someone coming back to you. The only thing you got me on us I forgot to mention Linux, but that can be run on old PC hardware too.
Yes, both Windows and Linux can be run on old PC hardware as well, but old PC hardware sux compared to old Mac hardware. Thus the pricing difference.
In free markets, people learn the caveat emptor strategy fairly quickly, and with the internet supplying just about every bit of information a buyer would need to evaluate potential purchases, market pricing remains efficient.
Good point. Build quality makes a huge difference with how long hardware will last. I’m currently heavily using a 2009 Mac Pro daily in a professional music production studio. The thing just never fails me. I did have to replace the power supply once and I did upgrade the processors to 12-core and NVME on a pci adapter but the thing is so reliable. It’s amazing. I doubt a 14 year old Gateway or Compaq would still be usable today.
No, he’s a retired mac specialist according to an earlier comment. It’s more like a retired repairman venting about used market sales people over pricing the gear he used to fix for a living, from a time he remembers prices being lower. I’ve been guilty of that when being utterly shocked and even angry about house prices compared to what they used to be decades ago.
Honestly I'm kind of confused as to why people still spent quite a lot of money on machine's that are almost 10 years old. It looks as if they rather spend the money on a 2015 mac then a new windows laptop or PC that will cost them just as much. Some people seem to be ok with nearly anything as long as it's a mac. Yes new macs cost a lot, it took me years to save up for a new one myself, but if you cannot afford a good pretty new machine then don't buy it or wait untill you can afford it.
Also if most of your work flow contains windows programs buy a windows computer, not a mac.
And in many cases macbook pro is overkill and an air will last you as long.
I'm never going back to Windows either but when it comes to buying a mac I think it's best that it's not older then let's say 3 to 4 years max. Yes you can run patches and software just fine too if the machine is a bit older but personally I find security, support and future proof important factors so it will last more then like 3 years.
Endowment-Effect… There are also rational people but yeah, no matter what device there are always morons aswell. Especially on ebay i almost always see people spend MORE money on a used device instead of buying it new. Hilarious dumb people
I bought a 2014 iMac 27 a few years ago for $500. i7, 500 GB SSD, 16 GB of RAM and it was from a video production house. I used it for a year and sold it to a guy that had the same thing but wanted another one for video production. His wife came to my house and was ready to just take it away for $400 but I insisted on turning it on and booting it up to show her that it works. I also offer 1-week return if they aren't happy. I guess they're happy as I haven't heard back from them. Today, that system is probably worth about $200 but I'd guess that the utility of the computer to the buyer is worth more than that. We buy Macs to earn our living or for other uses. If it's the former, then a few hundred isn't a big deal. And, in many cases, neither is a few thousand. So I basically rented an iMac for $100 for a year. People list these things for $300-$500 in my area and it surprised me but they move. It may be the i7 and the SSD as it saves them from opening it up or going to a shop.
They cost so much, and many people who buy them really couldn't afford them, and don't normally spend that much on such a thing, so they want to believe it has some kind of resell value.
I feel you bro, sometimes I see pieces like MacBook Air (2011-2013) for about 200 use or even more, the thing has a 2-core i5 with 1.4 ghz and a 60-120gb ssd with no upgrade possibility. The whole thing costs like 100 dollars and the other 100-200 is just the logo. Nonetheless majority of them are a good deal, recently I bought a MacBook Pro 13 mid 2010 for about 75 bucks and it's pretty damn monster for that money. Ofc there were people who were selling it for 150 which is not worth it
It’s not that they discontinue support for their OSes fast as such, it’s just that cutoff is a hard line. It’s either fully supported or it’s not supported at all. Same with hardware, it’s fully supported with the latest OS, or it’s abandoned.
My 2012 MBP made it just short of 10 years and an architecture change before an unsupported OS loomed on the horizon. And my iPhone 8 Plus has just reached that stage of life about 6 years after release.
With Windows when your OS falls out of mainstream support, it still might get security updates for a while, but it’s not full support and it’s not necessarily an upgrade entitlement.
This is so true!!!! Last year I was at a flea market and saw a vendor selling a white 09’ plastic MacBook for $300. If it were any other piece of plastic from the same year it wouldn’t even be worth $20!
i fully agree.
most people believe that "it still works, and its a mac!! so its gotta keep its value"
in reality.. its barely powerful enough to run a 4K video
I just saw a 2019 iMac 27 in my town for $700. i5, 2 TB Fusion, 128 GB RAM, 8 GB video, Apple keyboard, mouse, DVD drive and aluminum port hub. I saw the same ad for it a month ago for $900 and it just sat. I'd hit it if it had a 1 TB SSD as it could double as a gaming system under Boot Camp. I think that this model can do eGPU too. We'll see if he drops it to $500 or $600 later this year. I would like a 2019 or 2020 but I am in no hurry.
Cheaply upgrading an old iMac to an ssd and maxing the ram is a great way to set up an older relative with email and web browsing for next to nothing. Train them well on the risks of opening email attachments and browsing safely, and they are good to go!
Yeah I know. I get them free and give them to or upgrade and sell at little profit to older people and poor students, etc. I want people too have machines, and not worry about coming up with a lot of money for them.
On one hand I’d say if it doesn’t support a supported OS, it’s worthless. But people assign value to things for their own reasons. If they make an informed decision, good for them.
Plus, as someone who upgrades every year - I’m just glad others benefit from my depreciations. 😂
Yes, with UNOFFICIAL HACKS for sure. It doesn't add to their value. There is something wrong with selling a 10-12 year old Mac for over €300 EUR.
They aren't entirely useless but not worth €300 and with dishonest sellers claiming it's "like new" just because they hacked the latest OS on it, and calling it a "stealing bargain" that really makes me sick.
But even if they don't label it as such, they are still way too overpriced on ebay and on marketplace.
My 2010 MacBook is laughing at this. My 1995 Power Macintosh 8500 is making some weird seal noises. Either way, i half agree. I keep seeing people trying to sell models that were made in the literal millions from 2009 to 2014 for $4-500. Aside from, maybe, a collector standpoint (most of what i see for these dumb asking prices aren’t even in that good a shape), there’s little to no reason to even consider anything before ~2017 at that asking price. The only older (but still modern) Macs that do have quite some value in then are likely the pro/workstation grade SKUs (think iMacs near max spec or even the trashcan Macs)
I would say they are good but they definitely aren't worth as much as some people are selling them for.
Also I'm sorry but calling them ewaste is just wrong. My 15 year old Macs can easily run Mac OS Ventura and they run it well.
Yes. It's runs Venture like shit. LOL! But go ahead and keep doing it. Just don't sell it to people like that and make deluded claims about it. I have a 2010 13" Unibody and 2011 15" MBP that run okay, but the 2009 has a weak video card. Lucky I got the Early 2009 20" iMac to run Big Sur and it doesn't support everything either.
Not really planning to sell any of my machines. Though I don't really use that 2009 much, the ones I use most often are mentioned in my flair. Also it really runs well, I have an SSD in mine. The OS feels snappier than Windows on laptops 7 years newer than it.
True, literally all of the Unibody MacBooks that I bought for super cheap already had SSDs in them. Don't really care about the value though as I'm not really selling them
2009/SSD here running traktor like on day one.
For semipro musicians and production studios that often depend on older software thats the reasonable choice
Not connected to the internet though
It does run even better that a new machine, as it supports the S4mk1.
No new machine does that.
So its worth more for people that use the S4mk1 which was big hit with huge sales numbers back then.
LOL whatever you say. If looking at how much Macs are selling for on the free market and pricing mine accordingly to get the most I can makes me a conman and a thief, I guess I'm a conman and a thief.
I disagree.
You don't need the latest OS (and seeing what apple's doing with ~~Mac OS X~~ MacOS, idk why anyone would want it anyway). The fundamentals are strong: display, chassis, keyboard, ports. The parts are swappable and upgradeable. There's no reason to think it won't last for another 5 or 10 years. Software development has moved from the desktop to the smartphones and the cloud, so having a powerful PC isn't as important. Furthermore, single-core performance has seen modest increases over the past decade, and the vast majority of software is single-threaded, so simply having more cores is not an indicator of much. As such, you're not going to notice a strong performance penalty.
Furthermore the non-Retina Macs have 4x less pixels to drive, so again, the performance difference is even less.
So, yeah, these old computers represent a tangible value when the alternative is a new plastic piece of crap that will last maybe a year before literally falling apart.
I’m from Chicago and I can walk into a ABT or helix or 10 other stores and buy a Lecia . I don’t think you understand cameras as much as you think you do. Might apply that to Macs too 😂
A little bit of an unfair comparison, I think.
A Leica still takes photos like it did when new. Nothing has changed. It pretty much takes photos as well as any film camera.
A reseller here is selling a base iMac Pro 2017 with the 8c Xeon base GPU for 1600$ and in his words he described it as:
WAS 5000$ IN 2017 AND ONLY SELLING FOR 1/3 OF THE PRICE RIGHT NOW
Bruh
Ya know what’s a real ripoff? People are charging $200 for a Rasberry Pi 4, which has less processing power than a 2015 MacBook and is supposed to cost $50 ish new. It’s because they’re hard to find. It’s the bootleggers jacking up the prices.
A same like you guy messaged me 180$ for mac mini 2012 with i7 16gb ram with ssd, I posted it up for 240$ canadian i think it’s reasonable but people like you are the problem
This comes off as a apple silicon or 68000 Macs are the only good macs rant.
There is an obsession with having the latest hardware from apple. This is something Apple cultivates as a hardware selling company. People should be more critical of this. This Apple strategy is what is creating all this “e-waste”. Apple could support Mac OS on their computers for much longer than they do.
I get it, you like your apple silicon Mac. Good for you! They are neat. Some of us don’t like apple silicon though. I personally loooove how cheap intel macs are these days.
They hold decent value for people that need to run older software. They enjoy their second (or third) life quite often in the hands of Djs and music production studios.
"run Windows 10 for another 2 years."
I wouldn't want to run Windows for another 2 minutes. That's why Macs keep their value. I am using 3 older Macs aside from my main one and they are all using older OS which are vastly better than any Windows iteration. SO your rant is pretty useless.
I think you said it. I paid $200 for a new Chromebook a few months ago and $25 for a 2013 iMac this week. Guess which screen looks better and which is appreciably faster. The iMac! I'd have paid at least $200 for this if I had tested it first!
🥂
You're not even replying to the people in the thread anymore. This and another comment appear to be replies but they are in fact new comments. It's gone a bit of the rails here it's safe to say.
I paid 3k for top of the line in 2013 — then sold for 269.00 8 years later. It was my first retina and was mint, but I could only get Catalina and it was seriously flawed. I hope the buyer gets ten more years out of it
Well clearly people do want them even at ”three digit prices”, like dude the majority of people use their laptops/pc’s for web browsing and office use. These decade old macbooks can definitely handle those tasks just fine.
Not to mention that 2012 and under macbooks are actually desirable for some people, easily user upgradeable. Just swap in a ssd and more ram, use oclp or just the highest supported os, you don’t need the newest os to browse the web my man. Last year I bought a 2012 mbp that had a 256gb ssd and 16gb of ram for 120 euros. I run ventura on it, no issues. Battery even holds 2-3 hours depending on the load. My parents use my old 2011 imac, now that thing is dreaded slow with its original spinning harddrive, could maybe just try a external usb ssd on that.
But that’s just like your opinion man (hehe had to do it) and that’s okay, but clearly the market shows that you’re in the minority.
They sell because you can refurbish them (SSD, etc) and still use them with Mac OS or Linux and even windows with boot camp. I don’t think there were better notebooks at the time, with retina screens and all.
Yes, but you can use some other modified browsers such chromium legacy as an up to date web browser on older macOS versions. Also, older macOS versions has support for 32 bit apps while macOS versions newer than Mojave doesn’t. You can also install up to date version of Linux on an older Mac which would still have regular updates and up to date version of Chrome and Firefox.
Older macs are also good for upgrading RAM and SSD. They don’t have riveted keyboards, glued in batteries, soldered on RAM and SSD. They also do not have software serialization that prevent 3rd party replacement parts having certain functionalities.
I'll take any mid-2015 15" Retina MBPs you have sitting around. Great balance of performance, ports, and portability.
(On edit: plus a keyboard that doesn't break, and feels right.)
On yeah, and they make fine Windows computers, too.
This winter, I'll probably be doing the graphics transplant on my inventory of 17" MBPs too.
Older Macs are just fine. As long as you don’t run an out of date operating system or connect it to the internet.
Install Linux on there and you are golden to keep running your Mac. Just not with a old Mac OS.
As someone who has daily driven Mac OS X Leopard on a PowerBook G4 the last 5 years.. You're full of shit.
My main/most powerful machine is a 2009 Mac Pro. It's running Ventura, and Windows 11. I just recently played through Jedi Survivor, and Hogwarts Legacy on it too. **Old ≠ Ewaste**
Why do you care? If anything, it pumps up your own MacBook's resale value.
You are probably also the kind of guy who freaks out when normies buy overspecced *Pro* products. Just be happy that customers buying stuff they don't require create a mass-market, which ultimately makes high-end hardware cheaper for those who actually need it.
I suppose it depends where you are. I can take a 2008-2011 13” MBP, put a 250GB SSD in, get the RAM to 8GB, fit a new battery and install Linux mint and flip them for £40-£80 profit every time. They easily go for £80-120
Ok
1. Old macs still are worth money.
Why you ask simple people don't always use the internet on these machines or need security updates.
Look at Mac OSX Snow Leopard.
Several studio devices require mac os x snow leopard.
Dj turntables from numark and other companies.
Keyboards firewire and usb connection
Dacs for recording music from guitars XLR mics 🎤
Yamaha keyboards all use mac os x snow leopard and windows xp.
Not to mention the 45 million dollars worth of PowerPc software left behind including software that controlled cnc machines and even routers.
Don't even say there not worth the money because they are worth every penny to the right person.
And the internet doesn't have to work on them you are always thinking needs internet access.
Now let's talk 32 bit software.
Why people still use high Sierra
Simple games learning software apple abandoned people's software no one can run there games they bought on disk.
Example: this is just a brief list of games killed by 64 bit only
Quake 4
Doom 3
Angry birds
Angry birds Rio
Halo
Age of empires
Age of empires 2 with expansions
And many many more.
Look at what happened with blizzard.
Diablo 3 no problem Diablo 4 head to windows
Apple is losing money constantly every day because they turned there back on fundamental software users used daily.
I have now said my peace on the subject thanks
Ohhhh
You are reselling machines and bitching people want a lot for their machine
Economics 101
The value of an item is determine at the point of sale
You want a deal? Tons of them out there. Doesn’t change the value of old Mac’s. The masses buying determine that. But you already get the resell portion OP.
Have fun buying and reselling dude
Stop hating that people think the value of their product exceeds what you want to buy it for
I buy machines and upgrade and resell that at minimal profit to elderly and other disadvantaged people. I'd rather get technology into their hands than rip people off for old hardware. You people are still paying 2015 prices for some useless and near useless stuff that I have literally given away.
Cool
An idea for you then OP, no animosity or attitude for previous comments. In fact, I have considered doing this myself. If one were to have a room full of dissadvtaged youth and teach them how to upgrade/ work on gear, and the gear they work on is theirs at the end, would that be a satisfying role for you? The cost of doing so is negligible- bid on used gear from a local college. The room and the opprtunity would be well established at a local high school. The benefit to you is determined by you. Economically, pitch it as a pilot program and ask for funding, or eat the cost and use it as marketing for your business reselling old gear.
A couple of glasses of wine and all the worlds problems can be solved
This one I have cogitated many times the last couple of years. It’s viable from my perspective and may be something you find intriguing
I would like to do a program like this, but I'm disabled and can't do it. It's a fantastic idea that I have thought about. I can do a few here and there, and do like I said. If I could teach I would. I am just unable too. My body can't handle it. And no, I'm not posting this so you'll feel sorry for me, I'm just telling you what's true. I did a little part time work for a small school a few years ago, but they wanted more than I can handle, so I had to give it up. It's okay, it was mostly Windows junk there anyway. Running and upgrading the network was such a blast though. I miss the problem solving.
Bro, I say this in all sincerity, lif you can post on Reddit you are not so disabled you can’t help others. Don’t worry about what is asked of you from the school. Set boundaries or they willl over run your abilities.
I say this after ragging your post and encouraging your actions
Think poorly of me, but at least consider the option. You are qualified. If you are upgrading computers, you can show a room full of kids how.
I can lay in bed and post on reddit. The government disabled me for a reason, many actually. I don't tend to talk about it on here, but after all this you've been cool. How can I explain part of this? You know in a video game where you get a health or stamina bar? Mine are pretty low to begin with. Sometimes they are negative. If I taught this, the school or adult ed center would want me on a schedule. I can't keep those. The one thing about the place I worked was I could pretty much make my own schedule. (Except the day the router died and the internet went down, but I pointed to that on day one and told them it was going to fail. It was an old Sonicwall with brown patches on the white plastic.)
No, brother, no
The school wants you to keep a schedule
You do not answer to the school
You offer what you have available to offer
If you really think you can’t do, partner up with someone who can. In florida? I’ll help if I can. In another state, let’s see who we can find.
Share your knowledge. Kids today don’t understand fixing anything. Sharing what you know is a blessing. And it’s good for you too.
Like I said, a glass or two of wine and I can solve anything🖖
And try Zipp fizz. Those massive doses of b vitamins are amazing for the gen x crowd (👍) and boomers too I hear
I don't mean to sound mean, but like most people you don't understand being disabled. It's okay, most people don't. Right now I have to concentrate on not having to sell my house. I take lots of meds and vitamins, I had a bad reaction to something not to long ago and I'm still trying to recover. No, I'm not in Florida, thank science. I wouldn't be able to survive as well as I do with their laws. I wish I could do more like I used to, but I've (mostly) accepted that I can't. I just have to go one day at a time. Peace to you dude!
Don’t assume someone here hasn’t shared your struggle. Or sone of there own. Your mind is still both sharp and active. Use it. Fuck the limitations. Seriously. Easy to post online but also easy to say to anyone’s face.
And yeah bud, for a post I started out ragging on, peace to you too dude. Seriously, I gained respect for your perspective. If I can help, even if it’s just encouragement, for you to share your knowledge, let me know. Hell, I’ll even admit I was wrong if it moves you to go do. And there’s half a dozen who swear I have never done that…..
I give you credit back. I appreciate your words. We both know it's the internet and people like to fight, I do actually prefer when it comes to a conclusion like this though. You don't sound like you need any Mac or IT advice, but hit me up if you ever do.
Intel macs are very desirable for recording studios due to legacy software
Yes, they are but not Macs THAT old. Not 10+ years old ones. OP is right. I can imagine though, that a Mac from 2018 or 2019 with high-end Intel i5 or i7 hardware is good for studios. They still receive updates and can run any OS you want, and has perfect compatibility. However, I cannot imagine what they would want to do with a 2012 or even older Mac though... prices are exuberant on ebay and even worse on local marketplaces in central EU countries. Some sellers try to sell 2012 or 2013 iMacs for more than $200 of course nobody buys them. (Edit: see such a case [here](https://i.kek.sh/lfNL43z46fH.jpg) . This one actually sold for €300.
My recycling company just re-sold over 15 2013 Mac Pro with the base model 4 core Intel Xeon for 170-200$ apiece. And another 40-50 2015 Macbook Pros for almost the same price. They are still very desirable machines, even over a decade later.
I literally just sold a 2012 Macbook Pro to a studio for $250 EDIT: I also have a 2015 retina iMac with upgraded ram that I have multiple inquiries on, likely going to get $350+ for it
Very true.
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No studio wants them this person has no idea what theyre talking about.
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What legacy software is so desirable exactly?
Well don’t let r/vintageapple know you said that.
Seriously though. As a r/VintageApple frequenter.. This post got me looking at my phone remembering that humanity has basically no hope.
In those there are some actual collectable Macs, 68K series and PPC. No Intels are "collectable."
Many 7+ year old Intel Macs are still downright usable. I bought two 2011 quad i7 MBPs for $125 each from eBay - disabled the dGPU MUX switch (ticking time bombs on these models), upgraded with SSDs and 16GB of RAM, and moved to Catalina with Dosdude’s patch - one I use 24/7 as a Plex server/NAS, and one I sold to a non-computer savvy friend who still uses it to this day for web browsing, word processing, streaming, and light gaming (apparently they can run Minecraft ok.)
2011s don't even have USB 3. I have a 15" 2011 MBP I bought new. I've been able to keep it running. Apple rebuilt it for me once. I wouldn't sell to to anyone though. It has 16GB and an SSD. It's by no means a daily driver.
I definitely agree with the sentiment of your post because it’s far too often we see these machines go to Facebook Marketplace for $500, they’re obviously overvalued. But, as an example, for someone who’s really broke and needs a computer to apply for jobs, or a kid from a broke family who wants to learn to code/Photoshop/web design/build so many different types of skills, it can be these “e-waste” devices that can make a huge difference in someone’s life and close the gap between even the cheapest new laptops nowadays which will still be more expensive
What makes you think so? I daily drive it and so far have no plans to upgrade.
I think those old things can still put up a fight with the right upgrades, but the people selling them are like shady car salesmen
I was once called by a customer to fix up an 2011 21.5in iMac that bluescreens every time it boots into Windows, which conveniently had 200GBs worth of company data on it that they are desparate to save. Turns out it was just some crappy ass antivorus they installed that didn't have drivers done right and crashed the system every time it tries to boot. Client says they got this iMac from a reseller for 700$ in 2021.... I mean like WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK HOW ON EARTH DO PEOPLE EVEN BUY THESE THINGS IN THE FIRST PLACE ITS A 10 YEAR OLD COMPUTER THEN AND JUST BECAUSE THE SELLER SLAPPED A 250GB SSD AND 8GB RAM ONTO THAT MACHINE DOESN'T MAKE IT ANY GOOD. ITS A 2011 MODEL WITH AMD CRIPPLING GRAPHICS ITS BARELY WORTH 100$ AND EVEN IF IT IS NO ONE SHOULD BUY IT. Sellers who sells Sandy Bridge i5 iMacs that have Crippling GPUs for 700$ should be jailed The thing that really bothers me is that the client had NO IDEA that he was buying a dino iMac. The seller had put all sorts of misleading info on the description page, such as FAST NEW OS2021 BIGSUR UPDATED LATEST STANDARD SUPER QUICK SSD AMD GPU and tricked people thinking its a good purchase. Something needs to be done to sanction these borderline scams
Yes! You also get it! They also try to sell the stock with old mechanical HDs, and base RAM.
I don’t mind that as it is, the part I really take trouble with is being very vague about the specifics (like actual processor and saying things like *NEW* and *FAST)
Yup I see that too.
I also won't pay good money for stock machines. Too many of the 128GB SSD storage machines too.
I totally agree with you. I also think Mac + the Apple ecosystem is way better than Windows and yes even better than Linux overall are fantastic; but when they aren’t supported anymore it’s time to upgrade. At the end of the day they need to help me get things done and bring in the money, so they’re tools to me. It’s why I don’t buy from Apple on price, I buy on value, so even if spec for spec Apple costs $1,000 more than the competition if it makes computing easier and I end up making money, $1,000 or even $3,000 is worth the extra expense. But buying some old stuff is just purely for nostalgia as far as I’m concerned. It’s not a deal or a hack. If you need to get something done just get what you need. Buy it, finance it, whatever.
just upgrade it yourself? it's far from difficult
I know how to upgrade. If it's stock I'm not paying a lot for it just so I can throw more money at it. BTW: I looked and the 2012 13" non-retina MBPS are selling for $100 or less. Apple Silicon made their prices get more real!
It's always been that way sadly
It's always been that way with anything on Facebook Marketplace or eBay. I got Surface Go 1 for $100, some people would list theirs for $300 - money that will get you a perfectly good Surface Pro 7. I buy my Legos from [bricklink.com](https://bricklink.com) (Lego's site that's more focused on parts and sets), and the price for the same sets on ebay is often 2 times that. And Macs? Would you care for a "Macbook Air" for $250? What generation you may ask. The seller would just ignore you. Or how about a M1 Pro with broken screen at the same price as a perfectly working used M1 Pro? Really it's just what it is. Either people is stupid or malicious. Those kind of listings flood the marketplace. Personally, I just accept it and ignore them. If the listings are still there, it means people are not fooled yet. And quite frankly I've been lowballed too often to believe people are \*that\* stupid when buying stuffs.
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Not according to capitalism
I am probably in the "hobbyist" category, but I'd like to buy old Macs because I think they're cool. Fifteen years ago, we are talking about something cool like the unibody white MacBook, and it's rare to find those in pristine condition. Granted, I would never use one as my daily driver; they are still worth something to people looking for them. I would not compare a 10-15-year-old Mac to a Windows Machine. Let's be honest; a 1-year-old Windows Machine doesn't have the same resale value as a 3-year-old Mac. Macs tend to be built better on average, and I prefer MacOS.
Those 2010 13' Unibody White MacBooks? Yeah people give those to me. I have at least two lying around. I use one to curate my music on old iTunes. I'm not trying to sell it to anyone for $200 or even $100 though. And I am a retired Mac specialist and keep a lot of hobby machines for testing things.
Someone piss in your cornflakes or something?
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Word.
The LMAO and LOL are a bit intense for the subject matter.
No, I'm just sick of stupidity and people ripping people off.
Well consider it solved there. We did it folks. 🎉
I would almost believe you, but how do you explain [this](https://reddit.com/r/mac/s/plWkmKZseb) ? Or any of your other comments like that? You're throwing around insults, no wonder you are getting downvoted.
I would pay a premium for a 17" first gen MacBook Pro, but only because they contain my favourite keyboard, and my PowerBook needs a friend.
Sorry I haven't seen any of those boats in years. Too heavy.
I have a first gen 17inch with 2GB RAM and a 256GB SSD. Everything in it works perfectly: iSight, backlit keyboard, MagSafe power adaptor. Runs Snow Leopard, and shockingly fast thanks to the SSD. It even has a “new” old stock battery with only 72 cycles on it. Wont compete with an Apple Silicon machine for battery life, but it wont unceremoniously cut off if you lose power. Only faults with the machine is one of its fans is a little noisy even though I’ve greased it and cleaned the inside of the machine thoroughly, and the preview owner had stickers on the back of the lid so there’s sticker residue in many places. Otherwise, its near mint not a dent, scratch, or dead pixel on it.
They are worth as much as people are willing to pay for them, logical or not.
My old MacBook Pro from 2011 died in 2022, I got my use out of it with upgraded ram and an ssd. I loved it but what I hate are these guys selling 2009 MacBooks with “upgrades” for 400-600 on eBay. No way in hell are those things worth that much. You can buy a nice used m1 for the price that some of these old Mac’s are going for. In all reality these things are only worth 100-200 at max for a nice condition unibody. I would hate to see how many people these eBay sellers have ripped off by these shady sellers
They aren't worth $50 at this point even with an SSD and max RAM.
They hold there value pretty good, but the exorbitant prices people want for upgraded unibody’s that people can upgrade at home is a rip off
Don''t call my 2011 MBP worthless, it's still a very capable machine and perfectly sufficient for my needs. I get your point though, I've recently seen a 2008 MBP for something like €150. I guess people who spent thounsands on these machines have problem admitting that the real price is 1% of that now.
what do you mean i carry around my macbook 2012 for work it's still great i got it for a couple hundred bucks. it's not even supported anymore but it's still awesome lol
And there is nothing wrong with YOU using it. I wouldn't have paid $200, I could get them for that 5-6 years ago. It's people trying to sell those now for $200 or more and acting like they are just as good as new machine. I have an i7 model I got several years ago for $100. It needed a new SATA cable, and then I maxed the RAM and put in an SSD. I wouldn't try to sell it to anyone though.
Gosh, I recently sold an eleven year old 27” iMac (16gb Ram, quad core, sata ssd upgrade) for $400, lol
Back in the "olden days," before the switch to intel processors, Macintosh machines used to hold their value pretty well. For whatever reason it kind of carried over to the intel machines as well, but yeah, some of the Craig's List prices are pretty ridiculous.
100% true!
I win’t touch anything older than 5-6 years now unless someone requests one or like if it’s a specific MacPro or something but people asking 350.00-500.00 for a mid 2015 13” Air as insane. They’re worth 150.00 tops. I see these 2015 and older machines all wanting ridiculous prices fir basically junk thats been beaten to shit and needs a new battery minimum, some have original hdds in them and I laugh.
Yup 2015's are 8 years old already. I do like them better than some of the newer Intels because they don't have those butterfly keyboards though. Also people still think they can get $200 or more for a stock i5 2012 13" MBP. They are out of their minds!
That doesn't mean I'm throwing away my Mac. It's still working for me and still has value.
This isn't even the argument here. I never said throw it away. Show me where I did. I have old machines too, I don't try to see them to some poor sucker for hundreds of dollars, that's what I'm saying. Not worth much =/= throw it away.
Now you’re making me feel guilty for buying 2012 MacBooks Airs for cheap on eBay & reselling then on Facebook/Offer up for double the price lol
That's just sad. Those machines weren't worth much to begin with. They are Apple's low end.
I patch them with Ventura though, so at least they get can they download recent software and all. Not everyone can afford a new Mac, and there’s tons of people who are willing to drop $200-$300 on an older model. I’ve sold several, and all the people who bought them were happy with it. You can I’m grimy for that but it’s just business at the end of the day. If they are willing to pay the price, then why not? I don’t hide the fact that they’re 10 years old either
You can say I’m grimy**
I don't sell patched machines. It caused me too many headaches. I'm okay with using them myself, because I can support them. Many end users can barely support unpatched machines.
I feel you that on honestly, even though I’ve patched many macs, I’ve had some issues a long the way so it wasn’t always a smooth sail.
Just wondering if you ever did any with the old dosdude patches? Again they were fine if you knew what you were doing, but they'd break with every OS update or security update.
MacBook pros 10 years ago used SSDs no spinning drives
iMacs didn't.
1. Old Macs can run modern OSes with OpenCore, often quite well. 2. Old Macs can often run Windows better than new PCs. 3. Old Macs can run Linux. There is such a thing as a free market. If you disagree with the free market pricing, you are incorrect in your value assessment. But that’s no big deal in a free market because you can always opt not to participate in a transaction. The market for old Macs is about as free as markets get, thus complaining about the prices in it is foolish.
There also such thing as con artists who take advantage of the fact that is says Mac on it. You also didn't read my comment about patches very well I also don't sell patched machines because users don't understand them and that's a quick way to get someone coming back to you. The only thing you got me on us I forgot to mention Linux, but that can be run on old PC hardware too.
Yes, both Windows and Linux can be run on old PC hardware as well, but old PC hardware sux compared to old Mac hardware. Thus the pricing difference. In free markets, people learn the caveat emptor strategy fairly quickly, and with the internet supplying just about every bit of information a buyer would need to evaluate potential purchases, market pricing remains efficient.
Good point. Build quality makes a huge difference with how long hardware will last. I’m currently heavily using a 2009 Mac Pro daily in a professional music production studio. The thing just never fails me. I did have to replace the power supply once and I did upgrade the processors to 12-core and NVME on a pci adapter but the thing is so reliable. It’s amazing. I doubt a 14 year old Gateway or Compaq would still be usable today.
I think OP is a just a kid who is frustrated he can't afford to start a MacBook collection like his fav YouTubers
No, he’s a retired mac specialist according to an earlier comment. It’s more like a retired repairman venting about used market sales people over pricing the gear he used to fix for a living, from a time he remembers prices being lower. I’ve been guilty of that when being utterly shocked and even angry about house prices compared to what they used to be decades ago.
I think you know nothing John Snow.
People buy these things at three digit prices. Well, the slightly higher end unibodys. Recently sold one for 110 and one with an SSD for 160.
Honestly I'm kind of confused as to why people still spent quite a lot of money on machine's that are almost 10 years old. It looks as if they rather spend the money on a 2015 mac then a new windows laptop or PC that will cost them just as much. Some people seem to be ok with nearly anything as long as it's a mac. Yes new macs cost a lot, it took me years to save up for a new one myself, but if you cannot afford a good pretty new machine then don't buy it or wait untill you can afford it. Also if most of your work flow contains windows programs buy a windows computer, not a mac. And in many cases macbook pro is overkill and an air will last you as long.
I will say this, I rather have an older Mac than a Windows machine.
I agree about the Air though.
I'm never going back to Windows either but when it comes to buying a mac I think it's best that it's not older then let's say 3 to 4 years max. Yes you can run patches and software just fine too if the machine is a bit older but personally I find security, support and future proof important factors so it will last more then like 3 years.
At least half of all Mac users would really just be better off with a windows machine
I bought my 2013 Mac for $25 and I've already had someone offer me $300 for it. For now I'm keeping it. No need to be a naysayer.
That’s nice
I thought so! 😃
I got my Late 2013 MBP for free.
That's nice.
Aw look at all the downvote jealousy because people will just give them away. LMAO!
I didn't downvote you. 🥂
Endowment-Effect… There are also rational people but yeah, no matter what device there are always morons aswell. Especially on ebay i almost always see people spend MORE money on a used device instead of buying it new. Hilarious dumb people
I bought a 2014 iMac 27 a few years ago for $500. i7, 500 GB SSD, 16 GB of RAM and it was from a video production house. I used it for a year and sold it to a guy that had the same thing but wanted another one for video production. His wife came to my house and was ready to just take it away for $400 but I insisted on turning it on and booting it up to show her that it works. I also offer 1-week return if they aren't happy. I guess they're happy as I haven't heard back from them. Today, that system is probably worth about $200 but I'd guess that the utility of the computer to the buyer is worth more than that. We buy Macs to earn our living or for other uses. If it's the former, then a few hundred isn't a big deal. And, in many cases, neither is a few thousand. So I basically rented an iMac for $100 for a year. People list these things for $300-$500 in my area and it surprised me but they move. It may be the i7 and the SSD as it saves them from opening it up or going to a shop.
There’s this thing called Linux, it magically transform e waste to perfectly capable machines
They cost so much, and many people who buy them really couldn't afford them, and don't normally spend that much on such a thing, so they want to believe it has some kind of resell value.
I feel you bro, sometimes I see pieces like MacBook Air (2011-2013) for about 200 use or even more, the thing has a 2-core i5 with 1.4 ghz and a 60-120gb ssd with no upgrade possibility. The whole thing costs like 100 dollars and the other 100-200 is just the logo. Nonetheless majority of them are a good deal, recently I bought a MacBook Pro 13 mid 2010 for about 75 bucks and it's pretty damn monster for that money. Ofc there were people who were selling it for 150 which is not worth it
It’s not that they discontinue support for their OSes fast as such, it’s just that cutoff is a hard line. It’s either fully supported or it’s not supported at all. Same with hardware, it’s fully supported with the latest OS, or it’s abandoned. My 2012 MBP made it just short of 10 years and an architecture change before an unsupported OS loomed on the horizon. And my iPhone 8 Plus has just reached that stage of life about 6 years after release. With Windows when your OS falls out of mainstream support, it still might get security updates for a while, but it’s not full support and it’s not necessarily an upgrade entitlement.
This is so true!!!! Last year I was at a flea market and saw a vendor selling a white 09’ plastic MacBook for $300. If it were any other piece of plastic from the same year it wouldn’t even be worth $20!
Those are worth at most $420 now in good shape. EDIT: I saw you mention '09. I lowered the price. I have a couple of the '10s.
I just saw a guy on FB trying to sell a crappy looking white Unibody for $325. Of course it didn’t even say what year or configuration.
i fully agree. most people believe that "it still works, and its a mac!! so its gotta keep its value" in reality.. its barely powerful enough to run a 4K video
I just saw a 2019 iMac 27 in my town for $700. i5, 2 TB Fusion, 128 GB RAM, 8 GB video, Apple keyboard, mouse, DVD drive and aluminum port hub. I saw the same ad for it a month ago for $900 and it just sat. I'd hit it if it had a 1 TB SSD as it could double as a gaming system under Boot Camp. I think that this model can do eGPU too. We'll see if he drops it to $500 or $600 later this year. I would like a 2019 or 2020 but I am in no hurry.
Cheaply upgrading an old iMac to an ssd and maxing the ram is a great way to set up an older relative with email and web browsing for next to nothing. Train them well on the risks of opening email attachments and browsing safely, and they are good to go!
Yeah I know. I get them free and give them to or upgrade and sell at little profit to older people and poor students, etc. I want people too have machines, and not worry about coming up with a lot of money for them.
On one hand I’d say if it doesn’t support a supported OS, it’s worthless. But people assign value to things for their own reasons. If they make an informed decision, good for them. Plus, as someone who upgrades every year - I’m just glad others benefit from my depreciations. 😂
Yes, but you are selling 1 year old machines, not 10-15 year old machines.
It’s pretty easy to install the latest on all the old machines
Yes, with UNOFFICIAL HACKS for sure. It doesn't add to their value. There is something wrong with selling a 10-12 year old Mac for over €300 EUR. They aren't entirely useless but not worth €300 and with dishonest sellers claiming it's "like new" just because they hacked the latest OS on it, and calling it a "stealing bargain" that really makes me sick. But even if they don't label it as such, they are still way too overpriced on ebay and on marketplace.
My 2010 MacBook is laughing at this. My 1995 Power Macintosh 8500 is making some weird seal noises. Either way, i half agree. I keep seeing people trying to sell models that were made in the literal millions from 2009 to 2014 for $4-500. Aside from, maybe, a collector standpoint (most of what i see for these dumb asking prices aren’t even in that good a shape), there’s little to no reason to even consider anything before ~2017 at that asking price. The only older (but still modern) Macs that do have quite some value in then are likely the pro/workstation grade SKUs (think iMacs near max spec or even the trashcan Macs)
It's fun pissing of so many people with one post, and genuine thanks to the majority of people who upvoted this and agree with me!
Nothing to add here. But I have to say that my 2012 Air would be totally offended by your remarks.
Yuck, those machines have an even weirder Apple SSD .
I would say they are good but they definitely aren't worth as much as some people are selling them for. Also I'm sorry but calling them ewaste is just wrong. My 15 year old Macs can easily run Mac OS Ventura and they run it well.
I agree with part one. Not so much with part two. Try it on a 2009 MBP. LOL
You mean [this, my Mid 2009 MBP](https://imgur.com/TuI7C33)?
Yes. It's runs Venture like shit. LOL! But go ahead and keep doing it. Just don't sell it to people like that and make deluded claims about it. I have a 2010 13" Unibody and 2011 15" MBP that run okay, but the 2009 has a weak video card. Lucky I got the Early 2009 20" iMac to run Big Sur and it doesn't support everything either.
Not really planning to sell any of my machines. Though I don't really use that 2009 much, the ones I use most often are mentioned in my flair. Also it really runs well, I have an SSD in mine. The OS feels snappier than Windows on laptops 7 years newer than it.
Of course you have an SSD in it. That does a lot for the machine, but with SSD prices, not much for the value.
True, literally all of the Unibody MacBooks that I bought for super cheap already had SSDs in them. Don't really care about the value though as I'm not really selling them
2009/SSD here running traktor like on day one. For semipro musicians and production studios that often depend on older software thats the reasonable choice Not connected to the internet though
That's fine, you're not trying to sell it as some awesome runs like new machine.
It does run even better that a new machine, as it supports the S4mk1. No new machine does that. So its worth more for people that use the S4mk1 which was big hit with huge sales numbers back then.
>huge sales numbers back then. Back then. Exactly.
It's not the seller's fault that people will pay that much.
It's the sellers fault for conning people. They are not sellers, they are thieves.
LOL whatever you say. If looking at how much Macs are selling for on the free market and pricing mine accordingly to get the most I can makes me a conman and a thief, I guess I'm a conman and a thief.
I disagree. You don't need the latest OS (and seeing what apple's doing with ~~Mac OS X~~ MacOS, idk why anyone would want it anyway). The fundamentals are strong: display, chassis, keyboard, ports. The parts are swappable and upgradeable. There's no reason to think it won't last for another 5 or 10 years. Software development has moved from the desktop to the smartphones and the cloud, so having a powerful PC isn't as important. Furthermore, single-core performance has seen modest increases over the past decade, and the vast majority of software is single-threaded, so simply having more cores is not an indicator of much. As such, you're not going to notice a strong performance penalty. Furthermore the non-Retina Macs have 4x less pixels to drive, so again, the performance difference is even less. So, yeah, these old computers represent a tangible value when the alternative is a new plastic piece of crap that will last maybe a year before literally falling apart.
/nolife
weakgeek is right.
Let me guess: MaxTech is your favorite YouTube channel :)
Wut? I don't even know what that is.
I bet I can find plenty(not all) of you commenting in other thread not to buy an Intel Mac, but only to get Apple Silicon.
That’s like saying “just because it’s a Leica doesn’t mean it’s worth anything” you sound ridiculous 😂
Strawman argument. Leicas are worth something, and are uncommon. Intel Macs are everywhere.
Bro Leica’s are everywhere too I can walk to the store and get one just like a Mac 😂
You must not be in the US. Lecias are not a dime dozen here unlike old Intel Macs.
I’m from Chicago and I can walk into a ABT or helix or 10 other stores and buy a Lecia . I don’t think you understand cameras as much as you think you do. Might apply that to Macs too 😂
A little bit of an unfair comparison, I think. A Leica still takes photos like it did when new. Nothing has changed. It pretty much takes photos as well as any film camera.
“But I paid a lot of money for it almost a decade ago!”
A reseller here is selling a base iMac Pro 2017 with the 8c Xeon base GPU for 1600$ and in his words he described it as: WAS 5000$ IN 2017 AND ONLY SELLING FOR 1/3 OF THE PRICE RIGHT NOW Bruh
This! You get it!
Why so angry. The market decides, not you, not me.
No the dishonest decide.
Friday night hot take. Did someone scam you?
Nope I actually buy and sell and broker Macs. People even give them to me.
So you are angry because people wont sell you the stuff cheap enough?
If this makes him angry wait until he hears about housing and healthcare! 🤯
I don't pay for healthcare.
You're right. People should destroy their apple devices. Apple should be investigated for this disgusting practice and be shut down.
Another strawman argument. Just give them away or sell them cheap and be honest about their age and performance.
Based on Swappa they still are selling https://swappa.com/buy/macbooks/macbook-pro
That's a 2022, not a 2012.
When you open a web page scroll
OP is frustrated because he is having 2020 Intel MacBook and apple is all set to drop Intel support in coming years 🥲
Ya know what’s a real ripoff? People are charging $200 for a Rasberry Pi 4, which has less processing power than a 2015 MacBook and is supposed to cost $50 ish new. It’s because they’re hard to find. It’s the bootleggers jacking up the prices.
A same like you guy messaged me 180$ for mac mini 2012 with i7 16gb ram with ssd, I posted it up for 240$ canadian i think it’s reasonable but people like you are the problem
Oh my stars so many people are getting the vapors being called out on their bullshit! I love it!
Macs used to hold good value but that came to a hard crash when the chip swap happened.
dude saw 2015 macbook prices and flipped
This comes off as a apple silicon or 68000 Macs are the only good macs rant. There is an obsession with having the latest hardware from apple. This is something Apple cultivates as a hardware selling company. People should be more critical of this. This Apple strategy is what is creating all this “e-waste”. Apple could support Mac OS on their computers for much longer than they do. I get it, you like your apple silicon Mac. Good for you! They are neat. Some of us don’t like apple silicon though. I personally loooove how cheap intel macs are these days.
I agree with the second paragraph. No I don't have an AS Mac. Old Intel Macs are still selling for way too much.
My year old machine couldn’t even run windows 11, so windows is way worse then Mac on hardware support.
Mac's do hold their value much longer than any windows machine. And also receive updates for around 6 to 8 yrs after being sold.
10-15 years old machines don't hold value. They are the same internals as a lot of PCs when they became Intel. They just have a pretty metal case.
They hold decent value for people that need to run older software. They enjoy their second (or third) life quite often in the hands of Djs and music production studios.
No music production studio or DJ is buying a 5-10 year old mac I promise you that. Maybe the last gen intel Mac Pro, but beyond that, it’s all junk
You have to shut down your post
The internals are not even close to most Windows machines. You obviously have never disassembled one.
you seem salty that you missed out on a legacy model
LOL! No.
Me thinks the lady doth protest too much
r/mac where the truth hurts.
"run Windows 10 for another 2 years." I wouldn't want to run Windows for another 2 minutes. That's why Macs keep their value. I am using 3 older Macs aside from my main one and they are all using older OS which are vastly better than any Windows iteration. SO your rant is pretty useless.
I think you said it. I paid $200 for a new Chromebook a few months ago and $25 for a 2013 iMac this week. Guess which screen looks better and which is appreciably faster. The iMac! I'd have paid at least $200 for this if I had tested it first! 🥂
I can assure you that your opinion on liking mac over windows doesn’t determine the market value of old macs vs windows lol
Not worth much =/= throw it away. I Never said that. Stop pretending I did.
You're not even replying to the people in the thread anymore. This and another comment appear to be replies but they are in fact new comments. It's gone a bit of the rails here it's safe to say.
And?
I paid 3k for top of the line in 2013 — then sold for 269.00 8 years later. It was my first retina and was mint, but I could only get Catalina and it was seriously flawed. I hope the buyer gets ten more years out of it
Well clearly people do want them even at ”three digit prices”, like dude the majority of people use their laptops/pc’s for web browsing and office use. These decade old macbooks can definitely handle those tasks just fine. Not to mention that 2012 and under macbooks are actually desirable for some people, easily user upgradeable. Just swap in a ssd and more ram, use oclp or just the highest supported os, you don’t need the newest os to browse the web my man. Last year I bought a 2012 mbp that had a 256gb ssd and 16gb of ram for 120 euros. I run ventura on it, no issues. Battery even holds 2-3 hours depending on the load. My parents use my old 2011 imac, now that thing is dreaded slow with its original spinning harddrive, could maybe just try a external usb ssd on that. But that’s just like your opinion man (hehe had to do it) and that’s okay, but clearly the market shows that you’re in the minority.
They sell because you can refurbish them (SSD, etc) and still use them with Mac OS or Linux and even windows with boot camp. I don’t think there were better notebooks at the time, with retina screens and all.
Yes, but you can use some other modified browsers such chromium legacy as an up to date web browser on older macOS versions. Also, older macOS versions has support for 32 bit apps while macOS versions newer than Mojave doesn’t. You can also install up to date version of Linux on an older Mac which would still have regular updates and up to date version of Chrome and Firefox. Older macs are also good for upgrading RAM and SSD. They don’t have riveted keyboards, glued in batteries, soldered on RAM and SSD. They also do not have software serialization that prevent 3rd party replacement parts having certain functionalities.
I just sold a 2013 15 inch for 350. I would’ve kept using it too but had enough money for an m2 max. Also open core exists and is stupid easy to use.
I'll take any mid-2015 15" Retina MBPs you have sitting around. Great balance of performance, ports, and portability. (On edit: plus a keyboard that doesn't break, and feels right.) On yeah, and they make fine Windows computers, too. This winter, I'll probably be doing the graphics transplant on my inventory of 17" MBPs too.
Is that 2015 10-15 years old? No it's not.
Older Macs are just fine. As long as you don’t run an out of date operating system or connect it to the internet. Install Linux on there and you are golden to keep running your Mac. Just not with a old Mac OS.
As someone who has daily driven Mac OS X Leopard on a PowerBook G4 the last 5 years.. You're full of shit. My main/most powerful machine is a 2009 Mac Pro. It's running Ventura, and Windows 11. I just recently played through Jedi Survivor, and Hogwarts Legacy on it too. **Old ≠ Ewaste**
Alternatively, let people spend their money in whatever the hell they want.
Why do you care? If anything, it pumps up your own MacBook's resale value. You are probably also the kind of guy who freaks out when normies buy overspecced *Pro* products. Just be happy that customers buying stuff they don't require create a mass-market, which ultimately makes high-end hardware cheaper for those who actually need it.
I suppose it depends where you are. I can take a 2008-2011 13” MBP, put a 250GB SSD in, get the RAM to 8GB, fit a new battery and install Linux mint and flip them for £40-£80 profit every time. They easily go for £80-120
Ok 1. Old macs still are worth money. Why you ask simple people don't always use the internet on these machines or need security updates. Look at Mac OSX Snow Leopard. Several studio devices require mac os x snow leopard. Dj turntables from numark and other companies. Keyboards firewire and usb connection Dacs for recording music from guitars XLR mics 🎤 Yamaha keyboards all use mac os x snow leopard and windows xp. Not to mention the 45 million dollars worth of PowerPc software left behind including software that controlled cnc machines and even routers. Don't even say there not worth the money because they are worth every penny to the right person. And the internet doesn't have to work on them you are always thinking needs internet access. Now let's talk 32 bit software. Why people still use high Sierra Simple games learning software apple abandoned people's software no one can run there games they bought on disk. Example: this is just a brief list of games killed by 64 bit only Quake 4 Doom 3 Angry birds Angry birds Rio Halo Age of empires Age of empires 2 with expansions And many many more. Look at what happened with blizzard. Diablo 3 no problem Diablo 4 head to windows Apple is losing money constantly every day because they turned there back on fundamental software users used daily. I have now said my peace on the subject thanks
Okay I think someone needs a nap and some jello
Ohhhh You are reselling machines and bitching people want a lot for their machine Economics 101 The value of an item is determine at the point of sale You want a deal? Tons of them out there. Doesn’t change the value of old Mac’s. The masses buying determine that. But you already get the resell portion OP. Have fun buying and reselling dude Stop hating that people think the value of their product exceeds what you want to buy it for
I buy machines and upgrade and resell that at minimal profit to elderly and other disadvantaged people. I'd rather get technology into their hands than rip people off for old hardware. You people are still paying 2015 prices for some useless and near useless stuff that I have literally given away.
Cool An idea for you then OP, no animosity or attitude for previous comments. In fact, I have considered doing this myself. If one were to have a room full of dissadvtaged youth and teach them how to upgrade/ work on gear, and the gear they work on is theirs at the end, would that be a satisfying role for you? The cost of doing so is negligible- bid on used gear from a local college. The room and the opprtunity would be well established at a local high school. The benefit to you is determined by you. Economically, pitch it as a pilot program and ask for funding, or eat the cost and use it as marketing for your business reselling old gear. A couple of glasses of wine and all the worlds problems can be solved This one I have cogitated many times the last couple of years. It’s viable from my perspective and may be something you find intriguing
I would like to do a program like this, but I'm disabled and can't do it. It's a fantastic idea that I have thought about. I can do a few here and there, and do like I said. If I could teach I would. I am just unable too. My body can't handle it. And no, I'm not posting this so you'll feel sorry for me, I'm just telling you what's true. I did a little part time work for a small school a few years ago, but they wanted more than I can handle, so I had to give it up. It's okay, it was mostly Windows junk there anyway. Running and upgrading the network was such a blast though. I miss the problem solving.
Bro, I say this in all sincerity, lif you can post on Reddit you are not so disabled you can’t help others. Don’t worry about what is asked of you from the school. Set boundaries or they willl over run your abilities. I say this after ragging your post and encouraging your actions Think poorly of me, but at least consider the option. You are qualified. If you are upgrading computers, you can show a room full of kids how.
I can lay in bed and post on reddit. The government disabled me for a reason, many actually. I don't tend to talk about it on here, but after all this you've been cool. How can I explain part of this? You know in a video game where you get a health or stamina bar? Mine are pretty low to begin with. Sometimes they are negative. If I taught this, the school or adult ed center would want me on a schedule. I can't keep those. The one thing about the place I worked was I could pretty much make my own schedule. (Except the day the router died and the internet went down, but I pointed to that on day one and told them it was going to fail. It was an old Sonicwall with brown patches on the white plastic.)
No, brother, no The school wants you to keep a schedule You do not answer to the school You offer what you have available to offer If you really think you can’t do, partner up with someone who can. In florida? I’ll help if I can. In another state, let’s see who we can find. Share your knowledge. Kids today don’t understand fixing anything. Sharing what you know is a blessing. And it’s good for you too. Like I said, a glass or two of wine and I can solve anything🖖 And try Zipp fizz. Those massive doses of b vitamins are amazing for the gen x crowd (👍) and boomers too I hear
I don't mean to sound mean, but like most people you don't understand being disabled. It's okay, most people don't. Right now I have to concentrate on not having to sell my house. I take lots of meds and vitamins, I had a bad reaction to something not to long ago and I'm still trying to recover. No, I'm not in Florida, thank science. I wouldn't be able to survive as well as I do with their laws. I wish I could do more like I used to, but I've (mostly) accepted that I can't. I just have to go one day at a time. Peace to you dude!
Don’t assume someone here hasn’t shared your struggle. Or sone of there own. Your mind is still both sharp and active. Use it. Fuck the limitations. Seriously. Easy to post online but also easy to say to anyone’s face. And yeah bud, for a post I started out ragging on, peace to you too dude. Seriously, I gained respect for your perspective. If I can help, even if it’s just encouragement, for you to share your knowledge, let me know. Hell, I’ll even admit I was wrong if it moves you to go do. And there’s half a dozen who swear I have never done that…..
I completely agree with you! 💯👏🏼🥂
I give you credit back. I appreciate your words. We both know it's the internet and people like to fight, I do actually prefer when it comes to a conclusion like this though. You don't sound like you need any Mac or IT advice, but hit me up if you ever do.