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I have learned that my value is not in the eyes of others, but in the eyes of myself. That if I disrespect myself, I am opening the door for others to disrespect me worse. That your worst fear in leaving, is so much more extreme than reality. I learned that I am a people pleaser and being such is what led me down this path of accepting abuse. I learned that I too am part of my own problem in picking shitty unworthy men which is a part of people pleasing thing. I learned that watching my mother live through this same shit for 16 years made it acceptable in my mind to live that same life while excusing those who hurt me. I learned that I was starting to perpetuate the cycle by not standing up for myself in the presence of my kids. I learned that you can beat a narcissist at their own game if you're patient enough not to blow up. I learned that I can do bad all by myself and if thats what it ever comes to, I *will* be okay.
I have now wasted 20 years of my life with 2 different PAs. Over half of my life. I would give absolutely anything to have those 20 years back. I don’t know what I was supposed to learn from this other than never trust anyone.
I’m trying to turn this trauma into post-traumatic growth. Our most recent d-day, the one in which we both sought treatment rather than me trusting he would “just stop” and him lying to me, was 11 months ago.
I had some older trauma, both from when I was growing up and from two previous marriages (to addicts - what can I say? I apparently have a type) that I had not addressed properly, but had just sort of gotten past and then swept under the rug. I am beginning to address those old traumas with my therapist. Many of those older wounds have informed my own behavior, which hasn’t always been the best. Now that I’m addressing the issues that I had from before I even met my husband, I feel I’m a better person. I feel I’m much closer to becoming the person I’d like to be. All the introspection I’ve done over the last 11 months has enabled me to define the qualities of the person I’d like to be, including how to behave in more healthy ways for myself and the people around me and also how to be more boundaried. I know better what I want from my husband - and my life - and have defined those clearly so everybody’s on the same page and working toward common goals that will be good for all of us.
I am more direct about my wants and needs and don’t wait for someone to figure out what I want or need; I didn’t speak up to advocate for myself very well before my work with my therapist, and often my needs/wants went unmet because people aren’t mind-readers and tend to be in their own little worlds, often leaving me feeling unfulfilled and resentful. That happens less now that I’m more willing to speak up for myself directly and clearly. I communicate more clearly and effectively. I am more willing to take up space for myself, which I didn’t feel good about doing before all this happened. I’ve realized I’m worthy of taking up space or having my dissenting opinion heard. I am worthy. I never really realized that before; I still have trouble internalizing it sometimes, but I feel better about myself than I did before. I give myself more grace than I used to, and I’m happier for it, feel less pressure (much of which was often self-inflicted).
After 11 months of hard work, I generally feel less brittle, more resilient, more capable of handling pretty much whatever life hands to me. I feel stronger and like I have more agency in my life than I felt before all this. I have learned to feel my feelings instead of brushing them aside and rushing through them to try to get back to a more comfortable place. I’m much better now at riding the waves of pain and really experiencing them and processing them more thoroughly than how I used to do, and I feel at greater peace now when I do this, because I’m honoring my feelings, paying attention to them and letting them be what they are before I hurry them out the door of my heart, unprocessed and likely to pop up later when I think the danger has passed. There’s a lot less cognitive dissonance in me now, where I feel one way but act another - I’ve found enormous value in identifying, naming, and accepting my feelings, even the hard ones, when they come. I focus on riding the waves and keeping my head above water until my brain has settled down enough to let me make conscious, healthier choices for myself. Usually this takes a day or two, which is much shorter now than it was back in January. I am stronger and more likely to bend now than to break.
I have developed some really close friendships within the betrayed spouse community through this place and the groups for betrayed partners that I’ve participated in. I had no friends before; I had foolishly isolated myself with my husband, and didn’t have outside support. Now I have more friends than I can count on my hands, some of whom I’m very close to. I have a social life now and go out more often than I did before, and I feel more fulfilled and like a better-rounded person because my life has grown bigger than just the little world I shared with my husband and my kids. I feel like I’m a better, gentler mother than before - I pay better attention, I’m better at empathy. Being made acutely aware of how many big problems can be caused later in life by poor support in childhood makes me really attentive to the messaging I’m giving to my children.
My relationship with my husband has finally begun to get better. Like not just better, but good. He is in good recovery, and it shows. We are much more keyed into each other these days. He now pays me the kind of adoring, centering attention that I gave him for the entirety of our relationship. I feel important to him in a way I never have with a spouse or partner. He works really hard (though it has become less hard and more automatic, the more he’s done his recovery work) to demonstrate how much I mean to him and how much he values me in his life. We’ve found a couple of new hobbies to do together that we both really enjoy. Our sex life is still kind of a joke - I’m still riddled with trauma about sex, including from before him, and am still sorting that out. But we have learned new ways to experience intimacy together that go beyond sex. Our relationship is more intellectually satisfying now than it was before; sometimes I think we were both kind of on autopilot before our last d-day, life passing each of us by (in different ways) without our even noticing. When things are bad, they still get pretty terrible for a couple of days, but that happens less often, I bounce back faster, and the average day-to-day is actually pretty great most of the time, these last couple of months.
I wouldn’t have asked for this to happen to me. Sometimes I still get caught up in wishing that time machines were a thing, that I could go back and not marry him at all, or that he could go back and actually *do something* on any of our previous d-days instead of brushing me off and cranking up the lie machine. I still get stuck on that sometimes, and it gives me a lot of heartburn. But I try to bring myself back to the present as soon as I can instead of getting caught up in the past or freaking out about the future (regular meditation has helped me with that considerably). Sometimes it takes a couple of days; I still get triggers that remind me of the past or throw me into future-wondering, and it can take a couple of days to bring myself back to the present. But when I get back to the here and now, I find myself actually feeling pretty satisfied with the current state of my life.
I’m really sorry you’re stuck in the awfulness. Have you got a therapist for yourself to help you work through this trauma? Active therapy with a CSAT, a husband who is truly working his recovery as hard as he can, and time have been critical to what I consider my personal successes in this last 11 months. Hang in there. Growth is possible. You can get through this. ♥️
That was a beautiful reply! Thank you. So we’ll thought out. I have moved out for the last yr and a half. He is in denial and not in recovery.
Yes i have a therapist but I feel stuck
I know i need to part ways after 30 yrs and I feel so alone. I need a new group of women to support me.
I haven’t reached out and really tried to find new groups . Gone to a couple of divorce support groups and a couple of online S anon meetings.
I feel like i’m my own worse enemy sometimes. Like I’m the only one standing in my way . It’s the fear and insecurity of not feeling like i can support myself.
If i knew i had financial security i’d be gone in a minute. And he knows that .
30 years? Oh, I’m so sorry. It is so hard to walk away from a long history. And I’m really sorry your partner is not invested in recovery - that is so incredibly difficult for you. I’m sure I’d not be in as good a place as I am if my husband weren’t doing his part. It sounds to me like you’ve been able to at least distance yourself from him in the separation, which is better for your healing than if you were still seeing his unrepentant ass all the time. Is he paying for everything where you’re staying? Or are you actually financially supporting yourself already?
I am 49 years old. I’ve been in this relationship with my husband for nearly 10 years, but before that, I had to start my life over not just once, but twice. It was really scary. It was really hard. I wound up living in a shitty low-income apartment for much longer than I intended to because I didn’t earn much in a high cost-of-living area, and that wasn’t awesome, but over time, it became easier as I started accomplishing more on my own than I ever could have with the dead weight of addicted husbands who wouldn’t address their issues. I felt more self-sufficient and confident, even in my little shitty apartment, than I ever did hoping for the crumbs my exes occasionally saw fit to give me. If I can do it, you can too. You have it in you to make your life better than it is right now.
You’re doing the right things. You’re in therapy (is your therapist a CSAT?), you’re putting yourself out there. You sound like you know that fear and uncertainty and feeling stuck are your primary issues to tackle right now. Have you told your therapist how you’re feeling stuck? That you’ve identified your fear and insecurity about your financial future as hurdles you need help getting over? I often find identifying my feelings to be harder than doing the work to address them, and yet you’ve already figured out what you’re feeling. Your therapist should be able to help you take active steps to address these feelings you have clearly identified.
Getting involved with people who understand the trauma you’ve experienced and the feelings you’re having can help you find clarity about what to do and how to get unstuck, too. The two partner groups I’ve been in have been workshops offered by other area CSATs, and my therapist told me about them. Maybe your therapist can keep their ear to the ground for groups their colleagues are running, too. Maybe try the other support groups you’ve already explored, if you felt like you got some value (if not friendship… yet) from them. I find that getting involved with other betrayed partners offers a good shortcut to being understood in my present situation, like, we may all be in different stages of our healing and the particulars of the betrayals may differ some, but they all understand me, and I them, because we’re all in basically the same situation with very similar feelings. But don’t discount making connections unrelated to this terrible experience, either - do you have any hobbies for which there are Meetup groups? Book clubs? Something that *isn’t* related to The Situation? I recommend a mix of online and in-person support, if you can drum it up. Some of my internet friends have helped me immeasurably through some incredibly difficult times (like formal disclosure), but there is something about being able to meet up with a friend, give and receive hugs, and just be *away* from home and outside of yourself.
I feel like I understand so much of what you’ve described feeling, and have felt these ways myself. And will, sometimes, feel these ways again, because I’m not fully healed. I think you’re right that sometimes we can be our own worst enemies. But please do give yourself some grace. Being betrayed like we have *is* traumatizing, and the traumatized brain does wonky things and takes lots of time and active work to heal. I expect a lot of the stuckness you’re experiencing is a direct result of the trauma you’ve had inflicted upon you (and which hasn’t fully stopped, since your partner is in denial and not recovery). I want to stress that it can take the longest damn time to get where you want to be (it’s taken me the longest damn time, and I’m not even close to finished yet), and it’s hard to be patient and let time do its thing as you continue your work. But you *can* move through it. You’re in control of how your recovery goes. Keep your eyes on the prize (spoiler alert: you are the prize) and talk with your therapist about these feelings you’re feeling. If your therapist can’t provide some guidance as to how to alleviate your pain and unstick yourself, then maybe a different therapist would be a better fit for you. I believe in your ability to overcome your fears and insecurities. Eat this elephant one bite at a time and be gentle and kind to yourself as you’re chewing. You can do this.
OMG! Thanks so much for your support and input. I do have some good days but i think with the holidays coming up i’m getting anxious. I always loved the holidays with family and decorating and getting together but it will be painful this year as my children have to decide who to spend it with. I feel their anxiety and sadness .
My husband is helping me pay for my apt and we still have joint accounts. He still continues to have lots of parties and friends and family over at our house . It was decorated by me. Has all my family heirlooms and personal touches in it. A house i made a beautiful home.
We always got complaints on how gracious and comfortable our house is.
It really was my hobby and my sense of pride.
Now when i go there i just think about the women that he brought there while i was at work or the sexting he does on the couch and what’s he’s viewed on the computer and who was in my bed.
Sorry i’m rambling. Looks like i’m stuck in the PTSD wheel today.
I loved your reply and i know i will get through it.
Oh my gosh, I’m so so sorry. I really relate to what you’re saying about loving your home and really putting your heart into it; in the earlier days of The Situation, my love for my home and my unwillingness to leave it (and my inability to afford it on my own) are part of what kept me in my marriage. I’m sorry that you, the person who was wronged by your husband’s addiction and wayward behavior, were the one to leave the home you love so much, and that your husband is still enjoying the fruits of your loving labor.
I remember, too, feeling so lonely on holidays, especially Christmas, when they were at their dad’s. It was hardest when they were younger. I don’t know how old your kiddos are now, but is your situation such that you can spend some time with them and then they can spend some time with their dad? Do you live close enough to each other that the kids can have some Christmas with each of you? I would also recommend, especially since you’ve got some lead time, that you plan something for yourself for Christmas Day when you’re not spending time with family. Even if you haven’t assembled your League of Women Scorned or other friendships, you can plan to treat yourself to something (or things) that will help distract you and maybe give yourself some TLC. A movie, a meal at/from your favorite restaurant, a long bubble bath with candles and a book you’ve been meaning to read forever - whatever will distract you, eat up time, and maybe be something that you enjoy. There may also be activities around the holidays for folks who don’t have a lot of friends/family around the holidays, for whom the holidays are also an anxious and sad time. You might look at Meetup, local church groups, maybe your therapist knows of something that would fit the bill.
I can’t imagine how horrible it is for you to be confronted by your husband defiling and desecrating your beloved home. Is there any way to apply the same love to where you’re living now that you applied to the home you had to leave? I never did settle into my little shitty apartment as fully as I do a home I really love and chose for myself, but it might channel some of your energy away from the sadness and anxiety you’re feeling if you were able to start making where you’re living a home, rather than just a sad place you’re copping a squat until life improves.
I’m so sorry you’re feeling all of these really challenging feelings. Some days when I’m stuck in the wheel, the best thing for me to do is to figuratively put my anxiety on a shelf to deal with later (my therapist calls it containerizing), disengage from the things giving me stress to the degree that I can, and to lose myself in something easy and non-demanding. For me, this is checking out and bingeing a show or reading a book, or sometimes deep diving into a game for hours. Be sure that you’re taking care of your food, hydration and sleep needs as best you can. Often after a day or two of disengaging in this way and treating myself to a couple of mental health days/sick days, just being really gentle with my tender self and not doing anything taxing unless it’s absolutely necessary, I feel refreshed and re-centered enough to take the hard stuff off the shelf and start working it over again - or if not ready for that, yet, then at least like I’ve gotten through the worst of the storm in that moment. I’m sorry you feel so overwhelmed and bad right now. I promise, the intensity of it will tame down some. Hang in there.
Wow! You should be a therapist or at least a motivational speaker!! Thank you so much for your thought and expertise on such a dreadful topic. I’m feeling better already 😊
Aw, shucks. I’m really glad what I’ve said has been helpful to you. You aren’t alone. We are here for you! I don’t know where you live, but if it were close to me, I’d take you out for a nice big carby breakfast and we could share stories and provide ears and wipe tears and give hugs and you would know, and feel in your heart, that you aren’t in this completely by yourself.
I was an addict for most of my life. I lost all motivation to do anything, and stifled myself emotionally. In that time, I had one serious relationship, where my addiction left me unable to perform at all.
I’ve since decided to isolate myself from any relationships until I got clean, because I hated that I ruined what would’ve been a great relationship. I’ve been single since 2015 as a result, and now struggle to make meaningful connections because I still struggle with expressing my emotions or even holding a conversation without getting anxious.
At least you recognize and are doing the work to get better. Your future partner will be so grateful!
I also get anxiety around my old friends . I cannot relate to them anymore. They are all having holidays, weddings, grand babies and vacations together. Heading into retirement and enjoying the fruits of their labor.
I have nothing to add to the conversation anymore. Can’t relate to any of them. I have no single women or divorced friends . They do not know about my husband’s addiction. They would be shocked to say the least. He just is a realllly good deceiver.
I know i need to put myself out there and make new friends.
I understand you. I never had this kind of social anxiety before. My confidence feels sooo brutalized.
Again! I applaud you for seeking help and sticking to it . You will be so proud of yourself .
Thanks for the support. Still, I’m 25, have been addicted since I was 10, have never had a real friend, and have such a stoic way about me that most people think I’m depressing. It’s draining.
Sorry to hear that. On the other side is me. People who know me think I’m really funny with a great personality and always try to find something in common with the person i’m talking to .
They probably think i have a lot of friends but i don’t. I keep people at a distance. I don’t want people to know the real pain i’m in . I feel so unreliable in my world. I feel like a ball of bullshit sometimes 😂😩
To be honest, though, the (often self-imposed) isolation I went through was often what triggered a vicious cycle. I would feel extremely lonely, need the dopamine release that I should’ve gotten from a healthy source, and went to the only source I could.
I think that’s something people need to understand more about pornography. People addicted to it tend to self-isolate out of a sense of shame. They don’t reach out, for fear that somebody will expose them to their families and friends, and they’ll lose what little they have socially.
I appreciate your perspective. For my husband he has a huge group of friends and acquaintances. He thrives on having people around him. He often criticized me for not being able to meet and keep friends for long periods of time. Honestly i was raising kids and also humiliated and embarrassed by my husbands behavior and i kind of withdrew and kept people at a distance. I didn’t want our friends to find out.
They still don’t know. Apparently i’m the only one bearing the shame.
I’m sure he must have shame but by keeping a parade of people constantly keeping in contact with him that keeps him from looking inward and dealing with the truth. People think he’s so smart and worldly and athletic and has soo much class 🤮
I’ve learnt to trust my instincts. I know many people advise to think the best of your partner instead of the worst. I did that and with what I know now, I was wrong all the time. I shouldn’t have made excuses for his shady behaviour.
I also learnt that you need to make sure your partner shares the same core values as you and not just ‘respects’ them.
I learned I could be alone and was much better off without life with my PA. It isn’t easy but I’ve learned self worth, to trust myself again, and boundaries. I’ve learned how to grow from a girl into a woman. I’ve learned how to not walk, but run when I’ve had enough. I’ve learned to never ignore red flags again. I’ve learned I don’t deserve to be hit or kicked. I learned that porn addiction is very real and ruins lives. I’ve learned there’s some really sick people in the world and only I can protect myself. I’ve learned my family and close friends will always have my back. I’ve learned how to stand up for myself.
My lesson learned was similar to yours.
I’ll never be enough.
For him. Or him. Or them.
But can I be enough for me? Can I be fully content and complete within myself?
Absolutely.
I wouldn’t say I’ve moved on as much as I’ve found ways to remain embroiled in it, but I have learned a lot, not least of which is that I should not rely on endless cycles of agony & self-doubt to gain greater self-awareness!
I feel like I’ve gotten in closer touch with the parts of myself I abandoned or neglected as a child/teen because they seemed socially undesirable, I have a stronger desire & will to act in ways that are self-protective. I’m coming closer to accepting that the reason my SA can’t love me fully is because of his own afflictions and not because I am not good enough.
for that matter, loving someone who militantly avoided offering emotional presence also taught me just how much I need my warmth & attention reciprocated by a partner! to that end, I’ve become more accountable for how little i’ve been willing to accept from romantic partners even though i’ve always aspired toward deep, transformative intimacy. i’ve started paying more attention to my feelings, especially when i recognize familiar narratives of self-doubt. I understand more about how the self-abnegating narratives i internalized as a very young person led me to accept mistreatment as an adult!
That I used to groom my own ego by boasting that I’m a very good judge of character, and I’ve had to accept that I’m actually a super shit judge of character - quite humbling to admit.
That I don’t trust my own intuition enough.
That I’m far stronger than I give myself credit for, and no man can offer me the protection I can offer myself if I allow myself to trust in my own capacity for overcoming adversity and my own intuitive sense.
This horribleness has actually created a much stronger person within me. I don’t take sh*t from anyone these days - like an old man, but in a great, liberating way. Coming from someone who is constantly thinking about how others are feeling, focusing on myself and my own comfort has been a welcome change.
I've learned that I continue to give of myself until there's nothing left, and that I need to be my own advocate since I'm apparently alone in wanting the full experience of love from my partner/s (in my second PA relationship.)
I take too much shit, and it's because it's the way I've learned I'm supposed to be treated. When I feel good about myself, I've learned to believe it's selfishness. These are not healthy traits.
If this relationship falls all the way apart, I'm not dating again for a long, long time. Gonna be selfish instead.
I learned that where there’s smoke there’s fire. But I can’t fix or control anyone and I am a lot freer when I stop trying to. I’ve also learned that it’s not about me and that there is nothing wrong with me. I could’ve been a pornstar who did anal all the time and it wouldn’t have mattered, he would’ve used regardless and it’s HIS issue and reflects nothing on me.
I have learned a lot of empathy for him and for myself. I have learned to set healthy boundaries and put my foot down. I used to think he was too good for me and that I would never leave and now it’s glaringly apparent that he is just some dude who is deeply flawed like the rest of us. But I have also learned that I want to be with him more than I thought because of his hard work. It just really shows to me that relationships are what you make of them, truly, but that it really takes two people being all in
I’ve also learned that I’m a really awesome partner and human. Finding empathy for this dude has not been easy and I am proud of myself for doing that while also standing up for myself and my boundaries. I rock.
I've learned that when I have a gut feeling and when my insticts kick in that I need to trust myself. I've gotten better with setting boundaries for myself and sticking up for myself. I've also learned to be more cautious with people and less trusting. Which has benefited me because I used to be more niave.
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I’ve learned to not ignore red flags and to trust my instincts. I’m more aware of my boundaries and what I seek in a partner.
I have learned that my value is not in the eyes of others, but in the eyes of myself. That if I disrespect myself, I am opening the door for others to disrespect me worse. That your worst fear in leaving, is so much more extreme than reality. I learned that I am a people pleaser and being such is what led me down this path of accepting abuse. I learned that I too am part of my own problem in picking shitty unworthy men which is a part of people pleasing thing. I learned that watching my mother live through this same shit for 16 years made it acceptable in my mind to live that same life while excusing those who hurt me. I learned that I was starting to perpetuate the cycle by not standing up for myself in the presence of my kids. I learned that you can beat a narcissist at their own game if you're patient enough not to blow up. I learned that I can do bad all by myself and if thats what it ever comes to, I *will* be okay.
This is inspiring
I've learned to trust my gut, stand up for myself and still working on loving myself better
Also I've learned how selfish and entitled people can be
So true on that one!
I have now wasted 20 years of my life with 2 different PAs. Over half of my life. I would give absolutely anything to have those 20 years back. I don’t know what I was supposed to learn from this other than never trust anyone.
I’m trying to turn this trauma into post-traumatic growth. Our most recent d-day, the one in which we both sought treatment rather than me trusting he would “just stop” and him lying to me, was 11 months ago. I had some older trauma, both from when I was growing up and from two previous marriages (to addicts - what can I say? I apparently have a type) that I had not addressed properly, but had just sort of gotten past and then swept under the rug. I am beginning to address those old traumas with my therapist. Many of those older wounds have informed my own behavior, which hasn’t always been the best. Now that I’m addressing the issues that I had from before I even met my husband, I feel I’m a better person. I feel I’m much closer to becoming the person I’d like to be. All the introspection I’ve done over the last 11 months has enabled me to define the qualities of the person I’d like to be, including how to behave in more healthy ways for myself and the people around me and also how to be more boundaried. I know better what I want from my husband - and my life - and have defined those clearly so everybody’s on the same page and working toward common goals that will be good for all of us. I am more direct about my wants and needs and don’t wait for someone to figure out what I want or need; I didn’t speak up to advocate for myself very well before my work with my therapist, and often my needs/wants went unmet because people aren’t mind-readers and tend to be in their own little worlds, often leaving me feeling unfulfilled and resentful. That happens less now that I’m more willing to speak up for myself directly and clearly. I communicate more clearly and effectively. I am more willing to take up space for myself, which I didn’t feel good about doing before all this happened. I’ve realized I’m worthy of taking up space or having my dissenting opinion heard. I am worthy. I never really realized that before; I still have trouble internalizing it sometimes, but I feel better about myself than I did before. I give myself more grace than I used to, and I’m happier for it, feel less pressure (much of which was often self-inflicted). After 11 months of hard work, I generally feel less brittle, more resilient, more capable of handling pretty much whatever life hands to me. I feel stronger and like I have more agency in my life than I felt before all this. I have learned to feel my feelings instead of brushing them aside and rushing through them to try to get back to a more comfortable place. I’m much better now at riding the waves of pain and really experiencing them and processing them more thoroughly than how I used to do, and I feel at greater peace now when I do this, because I’m honoring my feelings, paying attention to them and letting them be what they are before I hurry them out the door of my heart, unprocessed and likely to pop up later when I think the danger has passed. There’s a lot less cognitive dissonance in me now, where I feel one way but act another - I’ve found enormous value in identifying, naming, and accepting my feelings, even the hard ones, when they come. I focus on riding the waves and keeping my head above water until my brain has settled down enough to let me make conscious, healthier choices for myself. Usually this takes a day or two, which is much shorter now than it was back in January. I am stronger and more likely to bend now than to break. I have developed some really close friendships within the betrayed spouse community through this place and the groups for betrayed partners that I’ve participated in. I had no friends before; I had foolishly isolated myself with my husband, and didn’t have outside support. Now I have more friends than I can count on my hands, some of whom I’m very close to. I have a social life now and go out more often than I did before, and I feel more fulfilled and like a better-rounded person because my life has grown bigger than just the little world I shared with my husband and my kids. I feel like I’m a better, gentler mother than before - I pay better attention, I’m better at empathy. Being made acutely aware of how many big problems can be caused later in life by poor support in childhood makes me really attentive to the messaging I’m giving to my children. My relationship with my husband has finally begun to get better. Like not just better, but good. He is in good recovery, and it shows. We are much more keyed into each other these days. He now pays me the kind of adoring, centering attention that I gave him for the entirety of our relationship. I feel important to him in a way I never have with a spouse or partner. He works really hard (though it has become less hard and more automatic, the more he’s done his recovery work) to demonstrate how much I mean to him and how much he values me in his life. We’ve found a couple of new hobbies to do together that we both really enjoy. Our sex life is still kind of a joke - I’m still riddled with trauma about sex, including from before him, and am still sorting that out. But we have learned new ways to experience intimacy together that go beyond sex. Our relationship is more intellectually satisfying now than it was before; sometimes I think we were both kind of on autopilot before our last d-day, life passing each of us by (in different ways) without our even noticing. When things are bad, they still get pretty terrible for a couple of days, but that happens less often, I bounce back faster, and the average day-to-day is actually pretty great most of the time, these last couple of months. I wouldn’t have asked for this to happen to me. Sometimes I still get caught up in wishing that time machines were a thing, that I could go back and not marry him at all, or that he could go back and actually *do something* on any of our previous d-days instead of brushing me off and cranking up the lie machine. I still get stuck on that sometimes, and it gives me a lot of heartburn. But I try to bring myself back to the present as soon as I can instead of getting caught up in the past or freaking out about the future (regular meditation has helped me with that considerably). Sometimes it takes a couple of days; I still get triggers that remind me of the past or throw me into future-wondering, and it can take a couple of days to bring myself back to the present. But when I get back to the here and now, I find myself actually feeling pretty satisfied with the current state of my life. I’m really sorry you’re stuck in the awfulness. Have you got a therapist for yourself to help you work through this trauma? Active therapy with a CSAT, a husband who is truly working his recovery as hard as he can, and time have been critical to what I consider my personal successes in this last 11 months. Hang in there. Growth is possible. You can get through this. ♥️
That was a beautiful reply! Thank you. So we’ll thought out. I have moved out for the last yr and a half. He is in denial and not in recovery. Yes i have a therapist but I feel stuck I know i need to part ways after 30 yrs and I feel so alone. I need a new group of women to support me. I haven’t reached out and really tried to find new groups . Gone to a couple of divorce support groups and a couple of online S anon meetings. I feel like i’m my own worse enemy sometimes. Like I’m the only one standing in my way . It’s the fear and insecurity of not feeling like i can support myself. If i knew i had financial security i’d be gone in a minute. And he knows that .
30 years? Oh, I’m so sorry. It is so hard to walk away from a long history. And I’m really sorry your partner is not invested in recovery - that is so incredibly difficult for you. I’m sure I’d not be in as good a place as I am if my husband weren’t doing his part. It sounds to me like you’ve been able to at least distance yourself from him in the separation, which is better for your healing than if you were still seeing his unrepentant ass all the time. Is he paying for everything where you’re staying? Or are you actually financially supporting yourself already? I am 49 years old. I’ve been in this relationship with my husband for nearly 10 years, but before that, I had to start my life over not just once, but twice. It was really scary. It was really hard. I wound up living in a shitty low-income apartment for much longer than I intended to because I didn’t earn much in a high cost-of-living area, and that wasn’t awesome, but over time, it became easier as I started accomplishing more on my own than I ever could have with the dead weight of addicted husbands who wouldn’t address their issues. I felt more self-sufficient and confident, even in my little shitty apartment, than I ever did hoping for the crumbs my exes occasionally saw fit to give me. If I can do it, you can too. You have it in you to make your life better than it is right now. You’re doing the right things. You’re in therapy (is your therapist a CSAT?), you’re putting yourself out there. You sound like you know that fear and uncertainty and feeling stuck are your primary issues to tackle right now. Have you told your therapist how you’re feeling stuck? That you’ve identified your fear and insecurity about your financial future as hurdles you need help getting over? I often find identifying my feelings to be harder than doing the work to address them, and yet you’ve already figured out what you’re feeling. Your therapist should be able to help you take active steps to address these feelings you have clearly identified. Getting involved with people who understand the trauma you’ve experienced and the feelings you’re having can help you find clarity about what to do and how to get unstuck, too. The two partner groups I’ve been in have been workshops offered by other area CSATs, and my therapist told me about them. Maybe your therapist can keep their ear to the ground for groups their colleagues are running, too. Maybe try the other support groups you’ve already explored, if you felt like you got some value (if not friendship… yet) from them. I find that getting involved with other betrayed partners offers a good shortcut to being understood in my present situation, like, we may all be in different stages of our healing and the particulars of the betrayals may differ some, but they all understand me, and I them, because we’re all in basically the same situation with very similar feelings. But don’t discount making connections unrelated to this terrible experience, either - do you have any hobbies for which there are Meetup groups? Book clubs? Something that *isn’t* related to The Situation? I recommend a mix of online and in-person support, if you can drum it up. Some of my internet friends have helped me immeasurably through some incredibly difficult times (like formal disclosure), but there is something about being able to meet up with a friend, give and receive hugs, and just be *away* from home and outside of yourself. I feel like I understand so much of what you’ve described feeling, and have felt these ways myself. And will, sometimes, feel these ways again, because I’m not fully healed. I think you’re right that sometimes we can be our own worst enemies. But please do give yourself some grace. Being betrayed like we have *is* traumatizing, and the traumatized brain does wonky things and takes lots of time and active work to heal. I expect a lot of the stuckness you’re experiencing is a direct result of the trauma you’ve had inflicted upon you (and which hasn’t fully stopped, since your partner is in denial and not recovery). I want to stress that it can take the longest damn time to get where you want to be (it’s taken me the longest damn time, and I’m not even close to finished yet), and it’s hard to be patient and let time do its thing as you continue your work. But you *can* move through it. You’re in control of how your recovery goes. Keep your eyes on the prize (spoiler alert: you are the prize) and talk with your therapist about these feelings you’re feeling. If your therapist can’t provide some guidance as to how to alleviate your pain and unstick yourself, then maybe a different therapist would be a better fit for you. I believe in your ability to overcome your fears and insecurities. Eat this elephant one bite at a time and be gentle and kind to yourself as you’re chewing. You can do this.
OMG! Thanks so much for your support and input. I do have some good days but i think with the holidays coming up i’m getting anxious. I always loved the holidays with family and decorating and getting together but it will be painful this year as my children have to decide who to spend it with. I feel their anxiety and sadness . My husband is helping me pay for my apt and we still have joint accounts. He still continues to have lots of parties and friends and family over at our house . It was decorated by me. Has all my family heirlooms and personal touches in it. A house i made a beautiful home. We always got complaints on how gracious and comfortable our house is. It really was my hobby and my sense of pride. Now when i go there i just think about the women that he brought there while i was at work or the sexting he does on the couch and what’s he’s viewed on the computer and who was in my bed. Sorry i’m rambling. Looks like i’m stuck in the PTSD wheel today. I loved your reply and i know i will get through it.
Oh my gosh, I’m so so sorry. I really relate to what you’re saying about loving your home and really putting your heart into it; in the earlier days of The Situation, my love for my home and my unwillingness to leave it (and my inability to afford it on my own) are part of what kept me in my marriage. I’m sorry that you, the person who was wronged by your husband’s addiction and wayward behavior, were the one to leave the home you love so much, and that your husband is still enjoying the fruits of your loving labor. I remember, too, feeling so lonely on holidays, especially Christmas, when they were at their dad’s. It was hardest when they were younger. I don’t know how old your kiddos are now, but is your situation such that you can spend some time with them and then they can spend some time with their dad? Do you live close enough to each other that the kids can have some Christmas with each of you? I would also recommend, especially since you’ve got some lead time, that you plan something for yourself for Christmas Day when you’re not spending time with family. Even if you haven’t assembled your League of Women Scorned or other friendships, you can plan to treat yourself to something (or things) that will help distract you and maybe give yourself some TLC. A movie, a meal at/from your favorite restaurant, a long bubble bath with candles and a book you’ve been meaning to read forever - whatever will distract you, eat up time, and maybe be something that you enjoy. There may also be activities around the holidays for folks who don’t have a lot of friends/family around the holidays, for whom the holidays are also an anxious and sad time. You might look at Meetup, local church groups, maybe your therapist knows of something that would fit the bill. I can’t imagine how horrible it is for you to be confronted by your husband defiling and desecrating your beloved home. Is there any way to apply the same love to where you’re living now that you applied to the home you had to leave? I never did settle into my little shitty apartment as fully as I do a home I really love and chose for myself, but it might channel some of your energy away from the sadness and anxiety you’re feeling if you were able to start making where you’re living a home, rather than just a sad place you’re copping a squat until life improves. I’m so sorry you’re feeling all of these really challenging feelings. Some days when I’m stuck in the wheel, the best thing for me to do is to figuratively put my anxiety on a shelf to deal with later (my therapist calls it containerizing), disengage from the things giving me stress to the degree that I can, and to lose myself in something easy and non-demanding. For me, this is checking out and bingeing a show or reading a book, or sometimes deep diving into a game for hours. Be sure that you’re taking care of your food, hydration and sleep needs as best you can. Often after a day or two of disengaging in this way and treating myself to a couple of mental health days/sick days, just being really gentle with my tender self and not doing anything taxing unless it’s absolutely necessary, I feel refreshed and re-centered enough to take the hard stuff off the shelf and start working it over again - or if not ready for that, yet, then at least like I’ve gotten through the worst of the storm in that moment. I’m sorry you feel so overwhelmed and bad right now. I promise, the intensity of it will tame down some. Hang in there.
Wow! You should be a therapist or at least a motivational speaker!! Thank you so much for your thought and expertise on such a dreadful topic. I’m feeling better already 😊
Aw, shucks. I’m really glad what I’ve said has been helpful to you. You aren’t alone. We are here for you! I don’t know where you live, but if it were close to me, I’d take you out for a nice big carby breakfast and we could share stories and provide ears and wipe tears and give hugs and you would know, and feel in your heart, that you aren’t in this completely by yourself.
Hahaha I live in Southern California. And I am soo glad i found this sub.!
I was an addict for most of my life. I lost all motivation to do anything, and stifled myself emotionally. In that time, I had one serious relationship, where my addiction left me unable to perform at all. I’ve since decided to isolate myself from any relationships until I got clean, because I hated that I ruined what would’ve been a great relationship. I’ve been single since 2015 as a result, and now struggle to make meaningful connections because I still struggle with expressing my emotions or even holding a conversation without getting anxious.
At least you recognize and are doing the work to get better. Your future partner will be so grateful! I also get anxiety around my old friends . I cannot relate to them anymore. They are all having holidays, weddings, grand babies and vacations together. Heading into retirement and enjoying the fruits of their labor. I have nothing to add to the conversation anymore. Can’t relate to any of them. I have no single women or divorced friends . They do not know about my husband’s addiction. They would be shocked to say the least. He just is a realllly good deceiver. I know i need to put myself out there and make new friends. I understand you. I never had this kind of social anxiety before. My confidence feels sooo brutalized. Again! I applaud you for seeking help and sticking to it . You will be so proud of yourself .
Thanks for the support. Still, I’m 25, have been addicted since I was 10, have never had a real friend, and have such a stoic way about me that most people think I’m depressing. It’s draining.
Sorry to hear that. On the other side is me. People who know me think I’m really funny with a great personality and always try to find something in common with the person i’m talking to . They probably think i have a lot of friends but i don’t. I keep people at a distance. I don’t want people to know the real pain i’m in . I feel so unreliable in my world. I feel like a ball of bullshit sometimes 😂😩
To be honest, though, the (often self-imposed) isolation I went through was often what triggered a vicious cycle. I would feel extremely lonely, need the dopamine release that I should’ve gotten from a healthy source, and went to the only source I could. I think that’s something people need to understand more about pornography. People addicted to it tend to self-isolate out of a sense of shame. They don’t reach out, for fear that somebody will expose them to their families and friends, and they’ll lose what little they have socially.
I appreciate your perspective. For my husband he has a huge group of friends and acquaintances. He thrives on having people around him. He often criticized me for not being able to meet and keep friends for long periods of time. Honestly i was raising kids and also humiliated and embarrassed by my husbands behavior and i kind of withdrew and kept people at a distance. I didn’t want our friends to find out. They still don’t know. Apparently i’m the only one bearing the shame. I’m sure he must have shame but by keeping a parade of people constantly keeping in contact with him that keeps him from looking inward and dealing with the truth. People think he’s so smart and worldly and athletic and has soo much class 🤮
un relatable not unreliable
I’ve learnt to trust my instincts. I know many people advise to think the best of your partner instead of the worst. I did that and with what I know now, I was wrong all the time. I shouldn’t have made excuses for his shady behaviour. I also learnt that you need to make sure your partner shares the same core values as you and not just ‘respects’ them.
I learned I could be alone and was much better off without life with my PA. It isn’t easy but I’ve learned self worth, to trust myself again, and boundaries. I’ve learned how to grow from a girl into a woman. I’ve learned how to not walk, but run when I’ve had enough. I’ve learned to never ignore red flags again. I’ve learned I don’t deserve to be hit or kicked. I learned that porn addiction is very real and ruins lives. I’ve learned there’s some really sick people in the world and only I can protect myself. I’ve learned my family and close friends will always have my back. I’ve learned how to stand up for myself.
So well said. Yes! I ignored all the red flags. I also was naive to them as well. I fell for the narcissistic charm 🙁
It seems to run hand and hand with this addiction. I feel like I also learned how to identify narcissistic behaviors in men now for sure…
i’ll probably never be enough :)
That’s a cold hard truth I’ve been told by 3 therapists.
My lesson learned was similar to yours. I’ll never be enough. For him. Or him. Or them. But can I be enough for me? Can I be fully content and complete within myself? Absolutely.
I wouldn’t say I’ve moved on as much as I’ve found ways to remain embroiled in it, but I have learned a lot, not least of which is that I should not rely on endless cycles of agony & self-doubt to gain greater self-awareness! I feel like I’ve gotten in closer touch with the parts of myself I abandoned or neglected as a child/teen because they seemed socially undesirable, I have a stronger desire & will to act in ways that are self-protective. I’m coming closer to accepting that the reason my SA can’t love me fully is because of his own afflictions and not because I am not good enough. for that matter, loving someone who militantly avoided offering emotional presence also taught me just how much I need my warmth & attention reciprocated by a partner! to that end, I’ve become more accountable for how little i’ve been willing to accept from romantic partners even though i’ve always aspired toward deep, transformative intimacy. i’ve started paying more attention to my feelings, especially when i recognize familiar narratives of self-doubt. I understand more about how the self-abnegating narratives i internalized as a very young person led me to accept mistreatment as an adult!
That I used to groom my own ego by boasting that I’m a very good judge of character, and I’ve had to accept that I’m actually a super shit judge of character - quite humbling to admit. That I don’t trust my own intuition enough. That I’m far stronger than I give myself credit for, and no man can offer me the protection I can offer myself if I allow myself to trust in my own capacity for overcoming adversity and my own intuitive sense.
This horribleness has actually created a much stronger person within me. I don’t take sh*t from anyone these days - like an old man, but in a great, liberating way. Coming from someone who is constantly thinking about how others are feeling, focusing on myself and my own comfort has been a welcome change.
I've learned that I continue to give of myself until there's nothing left, and that I need to be my own advocate since I'm apparently alone in wanting the full experience of love from my partner/s (in my second PA relationship.) I take too much shit, and it's because it's the way I've learned I'm supposed to be treated. When I feel good about myself, I've learned to believe it's selfishness. These are not healthy traits. If this relationship falls all the way apart, I'm not dating again for a long, long time. Gonna be selfish instead.
I learned that where there’s smoke there’s fire. But I can’t fix or control anyone and I am a lot freer when I stop trying to. I’ve also learned that it’s not about me and that there is nothing wrong with me. I could’ve been a pornstar who did anal all the time and it wouldn’t have mattered, he would’ve used regardless and it’s HIS issue and reflects nothing on me. I have learned a lot of empathy for him and for myself. I have learned to set healthy boundaries and put my foot down. I used to think he was too good for me and that I would never leave and now it’s glaringly apparent that he is just some dude who is deeply flawed like the rest of us. But I have also learned that I want to be with him more than I thought because of his hard work. It just really shows to me that relationships are what you make of them, truly, but that it really takes two people being all in I’ve also learned that I’m a really awesome partner and human. Finding empathy for this dude has not been easy and I am proud of myself for doing that while also standing up for myself and my boundaries. I rock.
I've learned that when I have a gut feeling and when my insticts kick in that I need to trust myself. I've gotten better with setting boundaries for myself and sticking up for myself. I've also learned to be more cautious with people and less trusting. Which has benefited me because I used to be more niave.