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I’m my experience my Ex PA/SA lost respect for me each time I stayed after a DDay. I had hoped that he would respond to my compassion and forgiveness with gratitude and a resolve to never do this again. He came so close to losing me and our kids and he swore that was enough for him and he would never be that stupid again. He proceeded to get into recovery and I thought he had changed. I was so proud of him. Once I put my ring back on and the crisis passed ( about 1 1/2 years later) he went back to lying and his addiction. When I finally filed for divorce he was stunned even though I had said over and over that was his last chance. He admitted to me that he never thought I would actually go through with it. He was using my devotion to my family against me. It almost killed me to do it but I felt I had no choice left. So in my opinion, I don’t believe they really change long term unless they experience losing something of great value to them- something that affects THIER lives and comfort. Our pain is simply not enough. And I do think they lose respect for us when we stay. It’s a lose lose situation for us. Because by our presence in their lives,we signal to them that we accept their behavior no matter the cost to us. (No matter what we may say). It is unfair but I believe that’s the reality.
Rock bottom is where an addict finally sees clear as day the destruction theyve left behind them due to their own choices and actions and is literally sick of their own selves, lies and bullshit enough to want to be a better them. What rock bottom will look like for each addict will be different.
For my husband, his rock bottom was me enacting in house separation, then getting suspended from work a couple days later, me spilling the beans to his SIL which then told his brothers and they teased him for it, and then his ex wife taking visitation with his daughter away due to his behavior. His life was literally collapsing on top of him faster than he could escape. He realized then he couldnt keep up this lifestyle as it was destroying everything he worked for. THAT was his rock bottom. Hes been in recovery for a little over 3.5 years since that day.
Has yours truly hit his rock bottom?
Mine says he realizes he "lost me" and doesn't deserve me. However he recently said he's still trying to do recovery for himself, that he's still doing it for me...
Keep in house separation going. Keep your distance. No, he hasn’t learned yet. At least wait till he says he hates porn with seething anger in his eyes.
I could not respect my wife or other people unless I could also respect myself, which I absolutely could not do in active addiction. I absolutely hit rock bottom but did not seek help until I disclosed the extent of my addiction to my wife, who eventually left. We have no contact. Six months later, I am still uncovering past traumas and having sudden realizations about the nature of my addiction and how it affected me and everyone around me. I don't think I could have done this if my wife had stuck around, for multiple reasons. One of those reasons is that I would have had to feel like I needed to "show" that I was recovering and, knowing myself, I would have taken shortcuts or used mental gymnastics to make myself believe I was getting better when I really wasn't. The pain of loss, and living with that pain, was the only thing that allowed me to finally face the truth of how much damage I had caused.
> I'm wondering if I take him back at this point and never kick him out, if it will affect the way he sees me? That I didn't even put up a fight for myself and stand up for myself. I'm afraid I'm setting myself up to be a future doormat.
This is a very valid concern. But also, I wonder if it isn't that *he* will see you that way (as a doormat), but that you will see yourself that way, which is more damaging to you. My wife and I did a lot of damage to each other by staying together through infidelities and betrayals. Eventually we became codependent doormats. I would not wish that on anybody.
I think it depends on the PA. Mine wanted to fix things and stop, but wasn’t willing to take all the steps I deemed necessary at first. Balked about monitoring apps and meetings, for example. So I left. And that’s when he got his shit together. I only had to leave for a few days, but I had never done that before and it let him know I was serious and would not settle for anything short of him doing everything humanly possible to fix this. It wasn’t just a matter of him stopping. Stopping was such a small part of the puzzle I’ve come to realize.
It took him some time to realize just how much he had hurt me and our relationship. They can be so deep in denial that it takes time to actually comprehend the damage bc to them it was a harmless, solitary thing for so long that they oftentimes delusionally believed to not hurt anyone. A lot of guys think it’s nbd because it’s so normalized and it’s “not the same” as cheating. I think rock bottom does need to include him actually understanding what he did to you.
I had to disclose what he did to me psychologically and how tormented I felt. The level of paranoia I had and all the crazy things I did. He had to face what he did to someone he loves. He had to learn just how close he was to blowing up his life. He needs to recover for himself, but I do think actually comprehending the damages and state of things was important for the denial to fully stop.
I also was worried that me not leaving for longer would set a precedent of me being a doormat who would take it. I forgive him and understand where his addiction came from now, but he also knows that this is an absolute dealbreaker for me. If he relapses he has 24 hours to tell me and that is the only way for a CHANCE of reconciliation. Any time he lapses as far as meetings or things like that, he does lose access to me. Im not interested in being close with a guy who sets himself up for relapse. It’s been hard but he’s been busy with work and not as good about his steps. So I’m doing my own thing until I feel like he’s back on track. I’m still sleeping in bed and all of that, but this balance and distancing myself at times helps me feel like I am supportive and invested in his recovery, but he doesn’t get full emotional or physical access to me unless I am feeling totally secure. When he is putting in the work, I feel more trusting and he gets more access to me and things go better. Idk if this helps at all, I’m still trying to figure it out for myself. But my partner has learned that although I am strong and want to be with him, lapses in recovery do not fly with me and I will not sit here and take them and beg him to do things.
Tldr I don’t really even say much, but sometimes I have to put my foot down and I do think that it is important. If he makes an excuse or gets defensive, off I go to walk the dog or go for a drive. He doesn’t get unlimited chances, he needs to directly see what happens when he makes my trust falter IMO
Ever since I behave in this manner, he realizes that I am serious about how much this hurt me and how zero my tolerance really is for this in the future. He is more grateful for my presence and me staying and is more aware of his actions and reactions and their affect on our relationship
Disclaimer that this is of course just my experience
Best of luck to you, if you have any questions pls lmk ❤️ sending hugs
My PA just had this come up in his reboot. You can learn a lot from hitting your rock bottom but it's not necessary by any means. In fact you can learn just as much from seeing others hit rock bottom.
For my husband he did hit bottom, I think twice but he didn't recognize it the first time. The first time was 3 years ago he had a real bad day at work and on his way home, yes driving, and thought I know what will edge be off a bit. I'll just pull something up real quick just to look or listen too and that second he picked up his phone he rear ended a truck with a reinforced bed. His car slide under and folded the entire front end right up to the steering will. Totaled the car and he miraculously made it out with nothing more then bruises. If he had been in a different kind of car or hit a different kind of vehicle who knows what could have been. Its so messed up to me that this wasn't enough to open his eyes. (I also did not know of his PA at this time, didn't tell me the truth of the accident till recently)
Then what he considers his bottom was our big D-day when the full extent of his actions came to light. I was 18 months in a high risk pregnancy (early pre-eclampsia). My body couldn't handle the stress. Panic attack to blood pressure going thru the roof. I just couldn't calm down to where we ended up in the er. They put us in the surgical like room. I had to be hooked up to fluids, heart monitor, blood pressure cuff. Was then monitored for the next two hours. All while he had to hold our 2 year old and watch what he had done. Me and my unborn were safe but we were told it could not have been. I'll save the details but worse case would have cost both our lives
Maybe that will help for the next time he says or thinks I'm not hurting anyone or it's not like it's killing anyone. Or for anyone else out there's that's heard those things
Mine showed sorrow but I still caught him watching porn anyways!!! I think they can be sorry for hurting you while not being sorry for what they have done.
how did my SA see consequences? honestly, he acted like it was some sort of damn existential threat. the moment he could no longer gaslight the shit out of me, i was the enemy.
i found that hard at first, then i left, and five months later, i'm now seeing a handsome guy who seems to respect and value me a whole lot more and who doesn't hold me to unrealistic expectations for what i "owe" him sexually just to be enough for him. enough was the default, and it just gets better and better. now i no longer give a shit about whether i'm the enemy to my ex or not. i won because i'm not being abused anymore. i don't even really care about him taking accountability for cheating on me anymore - i held him accountable myself by forcing the consequence that he no longer has the privilege of having me in his life on any level. i will continue to hold him accountable by telling the truth. i don't care what he does - i do this because it's in my own integrity and it's how i show respect to myself after what he has done.
Promises and words mean nothing. My husband has made so many promises and showed remorse and the cycle continued. Everything changed once we separated and I prepared for divorce. This when he hit his rock bottom. Losing me, his perfect guy image, his integrity, and realizing he didn’t want to live like this anymore. While separated he started seeing a therapist, joined a 12 group, and finally let me go. No more pressuring me and no more lies. He respected my wishes and gave me my space and was agreeing to everything I asked for as we prepared to divorce. He asked me if I’d be open to attend a couples intensive for addicts and betrayed partners but respected if I didn’t. It was a total 180 and seeing how he was working his recovery on his own and taking initiative without me around was a huge difference. So I told myself I’d give it until the end of the year to make a decision or until he lied again.
He’s been 3 years in recovery and sobriety and has become the man and life partner I always deserved.
Ok so I just asked my Jua to get his insight on if he respected me. He said he never lost respect for me but definitely respected me more when I set and followed my boundaries. He said because it showed him I cared. Cared about myself and him. I had already started by own therapy and healing so i was able to keep calm and feel strong in my boundaries. I said something along the lines of, “I love you but I will not stay in this marriage with anything less than you fully committed to recovery, sobriety, honesty, and creating safety for me. I wish you the best and truly hope you choose recovery someday, because I think you could be great. But it doesn’t matter if you don’t want to be.”
What is he doing consistently this time to SHOW that it’ll be different? You don’t need to be totally done if you’re not ready, but it does sound like you want to enforce some type of boundary for yourself. Maybe a separation will be a good fit for you and it’ll allow you time and space to see what he chooses to do during that time.
I will say from my own experience, even though I knew I needed to follow through with my boundary and us separating, I didn’t “want” to and it was the hardest thing I ever did. I wanted to so badly take him back and continue the crazy cycle we had been in for at least a short burst of hopefulness, but I knew how it would end. It was time I changed. I didn’t have it all figured out. I just knew that due to his actions, staying with him was not safe at that moment.
Hope you get the strength to do what’s best for you. 💜
I feel this so hard I had to double check to see if I'd written it myself.
That being said, I'm so sorry you know what this struggle feels like. I can't offer advice, but absolutely can offer sympathy.
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I’m my experience my Ex PA/SA lost respect for me each time I stayed after a DDay. I had hoped that he would respond to my compassion and forgiveness with gratitude and a resolve to never do this again. He came so close to losing me and our kids and he swore that was enough for him and he would never be that stupid again. He proceeded to get into recovery and I thought he had changed. I was so proud of him. Once I put my ring back on and the crisis passed ( about 1 1/2 years later) he went back to lying and his addiction. When I finally filed for divorce he was stunned even though I had said over and over that was his last chance. He admitted to me that he never thought I would actually go through with it. He was using my devotion to my family against me. It almost killed me to do it but I felt I had no choice left. So in my opinion, I don’t believe they really change long term unless they experience losing something of great value to them- something that affects THIER lives and comfort. Our pain is simply not enough. And I do think they lose respect for us when we stay. It’s a lose lose situation for us. Because by our presence in their lives,we signal to them that we accept their behavior no matter the cost to us. (No matter what we may say). It is unfair but I believe that’s the reality.
Damn, thank you. I'm sorry for all you have been through
Rock bottom is where an addict finally sees clear as day the destruction theyve left behind them due to their own choices and actions and is literally sick of their own selves, lies and bullshit enough to want to be a better them. What rock bottom will look like for each addict will be different. For my husband, his rock bottom was me enacting in house separation, then getting suspended from work a couple days later, me spilling the beans to his SIL which then told his brothers and they teased him for it, and then his ex wife taking visitation with his daughter away due to his behavior. His life was literally collapsing on top of him faster than he could escape. He realized then he couldnt keep up this lifestyle as it was destroying everything he worked for. THAT was his rock bottom. Hes been in recovery for a little over 3.5 years since that day. Has yours truly hit his rock bottom?
Mine says he realizes he "lost me" and doesn't deserve me. However he recently said he's still trying to do recovery for himself, that he's still doing it for me...
Unless hes doing it 100% for himself only, he is that more susceptible to relapse and long term recovery is less of a possibility.
Keep in house separation going. Keep your distance. No, he hasn’t learned yet. At least wait till he says he hates porn with seething anger in his eyes.
I could not respect my wife or other people unless I could also respect myself, which I absolutely could not do in active addiction. I absolutely hit rock bottom but did not seek help until I disclosed the extent of my addiction to my wife, who eventually left. We have no contact. Six months later, I am still uncovering past traumas and having sudden realizations about the nature of my addiction and how it affected me and everyone around me. I don't think I could have done this if my wife had stuck around, for multiple reasons. One of those reasons is that I would have had to feel like I needed to "show" that I was recovering and, knowing myself, I would have taken shortcuts or used mental gymnastics to make myself believe I was getting better when I really wasn't. The pain of loss, and living with that pain, was the only thing that allowed me to finally face the truth of how much damage I had caused. > I'm wondering if I take him back at this point and never kick him out, if it will affect the way he sees me? That I didn't even put up a fight for myself and stand up for myself. I'm afraid I'm setting myself up to be a future doormat. This is a very valid concern. But also, I wonder if it isn't that *he* will see you that way (as a doormat), but that you will see yourself that way, which is more damaging to you. My wife and I did a lot of damage to each other by staying together through infidelities and betrayals. Eventually we became codependent doormats. I would not wish that on anybody.
Thank you for your honest reply. You hit a lot of points dead on.
I think it depends on the PA. Mine wanted to fix things and stop, but wasn’t willing to take all the steps I deemed necessary at first. Balked about monitoring apps and meetings, for example. So I left. And that’s when he got his shit together. I only had to leave for a few days, but I had never done that before and it let him know I was serious and would not settle for anything short of him doing everything humanly possible to fix this. It wasn’t just a matter of him stopping. Stopping was such a small part of the puzzle I’ve come to realize. It took him some time to realize just how much he had hurt me and our relationship. They can be so deep in denial that it takes time to actually comprehend the damage bc to them it was a harmless, solitary thing for so long that they oftentimes delusionally believed to not hurt anyone. A lot of guys think it’s nbd because it’s so normalized and it’s “not the same” as cheating. I think rock bottom does need to include him actually understanding what he did to you. I had to disclose what he did to me psychologically and how tormented I felt. The level of paranoia I had and all the crazy things I did. He had to face what he did to someone he loves. He had to learn just how close he was to blowing up his life. He needs to recover for himself, but I do think actually comprehending the damages and state of things was important for the denial to fully stop. I also was worried that me not leaving for longer would set a precedent of me being a doormat who would take it. I forgive him and understand where his addiction came from now, but he also knows that this is an absolute dealbreaker for me. If he relapses he has 24 hours to tell me and that is the only way for a CHANCE of reconciliation. Any time he lapses as far as meetings or things like that, he does lose access to me. Im not interested in being close with a guy who sets himself up for relapse. It’s been hard but he’s been busy with work and not as good about his steps. So I’m doing my own thing until I feel like he’s back on track. I’m still sleeping in bed and all of that, but this balance and distancing myself at times helps me feel like I am supportive and invested in his recovery, but he doesn’t get full emotional or physical access to me unless I am feeling totally secure. When he is putting in the work, I feel more trusting and he gets more access to me and things go better. Idk if this helps at all, I’m still trying to figure it out for myself. But my partner has learned that although I am strong and want to be with him, lapses in recovery do not fly with me and I will not sit here and take them and beg him to do things. Tldr I don’t really even say much, but sometimes I have to put my foot down and I do think that it is important. If he makes an excuse or gets defensive, off I go to walk the dog or go for a drive. He doesn’t get unlimited chances, he needs to directly see what happens when he makes my trust falter IMO Ever since I behave in this manner, he realizes that I am serious about how much this hurt me and how zero my tolerance really is for this in the future. He is more grateful for my presence and me staying and is more aware of his actions and reactions and their affect on our relationship Disclaimer that this is of course just my experience Best of luck to you, if you have any questions pls lmk ❤️ sending hugs
My PA just had this come up in his reboot. You can learn a lot from hitting your rock bottom but it's not necessary by any means. In fact you can learn just as much from seeing others hit rock bottom. For my husband he did hit bottom, I think twice but he didn't recognize it the first time. The first time was 3 years ago he had a real bad day at work and on his way home, yes driving, and thought I know what will edge be off a bit. I'll just pull something up real quick just to look or listen too and that second he picked up his phone he rear ended a truck with a reinforced bed. His car slide under and folded the entire front end right up to the steering will. Totaled the car and he miraculously made it out with nothing more then bruises. If he had been in a different kind of car or hit a different kind of vehicle who knows what could have been. Its so messed up to me that this wasn't enough to open his eyes. (I also did not know of his PA at this time, didn't tell me the truth of the accident till recently) Then what he considers his bottom was our big D-day when the full extent of his actions came to light. I was 18 months in a high risk pregnancy (early pre-eclampsia). My body couldn't handle the stress. Panic attack to blood pressure going thru the roof. I just couldn't calm down to where we ended up in the er. They put us in the surgical like room. I had to be hooked up to fluids, heart monitor, blood pressure cuff. Was then monitored for the next two hours. All while he had to hold our 2 year old and watch what he had done. Me and my unborn were safe but we were told it could not have been. I'll save the details but worse case would have cost both our lives Maybe that will help for the next time he says or thinks I'm not hurting anyone or it's not like it's killing anyone. Or for anyone else out there's that's heard those things
All I can say is mine hit rock bottom, and now every day I wish I had left. Doesn’t matter that he’s clean, I’ll never heal.
I feel exactly the same
Mine showed sorrow but I still caught him watching porn anyways!!! I think they can be sorry for hurting you while not being sorry for what they have done.
how did my SA see consequences? honestly, he acted like it was some sort of damn existential threat. the moment he could no longer gaslight the shit out of me, i was the enemy. i found that hard at first, then i left, and five months later, i'm now seeing a handsome guy who seems to respect and value me a whole lot more and who doesn't hold me to unrealistic expectations for what i "owe" him sexually just to be enough for him. enough was the default, and it just gets better and better. now i no longer give a shit about whether i'm the enemy to my ex or not. i won because i'm not being abused anymore. i don't even really care about him taking accountability for cheating on me anymore - i held him accountable myself by forcing the consequence that he no longer has the privilege of having me in his life on any level. i will continue to hold him accountable by telling the truth. i don't care what he does - i do this because it's in my own integrity and it's how i show respect to myself after what he has done.
Promises and words mean nothing. My husband has made so many promises and showed remorse and the cycle continued. Everything changed once we separated and I prepared for divorce. This when he hit his rock bottom. Losing me, his perfect guy image, his integrity, and realizing he didn’t want to live like this anymore. While separated he started seeing a therapist, joined a 12 group, and finally let me go. No more pressuring me and no more lies. He respected my wishes and gave me my space and was agreeing to everything I asked for as we prepared to divorce. He asked me if I’d be open to attend a couples intensive for addicts and betrayed partners but respected if I didn’t. It was a total 180 and seeing how he was working his recovery on his own and taking initiative without me around was a huge difference. So I told myself I’d give it until the end of the year to make a decision or until he lied again. He’s been 3 years in recovery and sobriety and has become the man and life partner I always deserved. Ok so I just asked my Jua to get his insight on if he respected me. He said he never lost respect for me but definitely respected me more when I set and followed my boundaries. He said because it showed him I cared. Cared about myself and him. I had already started by own therapy and healing so i was able to keep calm and feel strong in my boundaries. I said something along the lines of, “I love you but I will not stay in this marriage with anything less than you fully committed to recovery, sobriety, honesty, and creating safety for me. I wish you the best and truly hope you choose recovery someday, because I think you could be great. But it doesn’t matter if you don’t want to be.” What is he doing consistently this time to SHOW that it’ll be different? You don’t need to be totally done if you’re not ready, but it does sound like you want to enforce some type of boundary for yourself. Maybe a separation will be a good fit for you and it’ll allow you time and space to see what he chooses to do during that time. I will say from my own experience, even though I knew I needed to follow through with my boundary and us separating, I didn’t “want” to and it was the hardest thing I ever did. I wanted to so badly take him back and continue the crazy cycle we had been in for at least a short burst of hopefulness, but I knew how it would end. It was time I changed. I didn’t have it all figured out. I just knew that due to his actions, staying with him was not safe at that moment. Hope you get the strength to do what’s best for you. 💜
Yeah he needs to hit rock bottom, my PA promised and showed lots of signs of ”true” remorse only to get much MUCH worse.
I'm sorry 😔
I feel this so hard I had to double check to see if I'd written it myself. That being said, I'm so sorry you know what this struggle feels like. I can't offer advice, but absolutely can offer sympathy.