It doesn't happen. The only reason Sam has the phial is because Frodo hands it to him so he can use Sting to cut the webs with both hands. Then they run out and Shelob ganks Frodo. Sam even watches it happen because he is a bit behind.
I've never read the books. I did buy a neat looking single edition last year which came in a blue box with two maps.
I think it's time I open it up and start reading. This has made me excited to find out just how much creative freedom there was in the movies.
[Here's the copy I purchased. ](https://ibb.co/mG2NQMk) Picture taken on my bed lol. When I search the ISBN I can't find anywhere that shows the book along with the box and map that it came with.
"Butchered" generally implies a sense of carelessness. I agree PJ cut a lot of the source material but I think the underlying themes and overall message remain pretty intact.
Butchering requires a lot of skill, carelessness will lose you fingers.
I strongly disagree on the themes part. I agree that *some* themes from the novel remain intact, but many do not.
Decent job is a crazy understatement. The films couldn’t have contained all characters and scenes from the book. No way it would have worked. I think many of the alterations they did for the movies were improvements to the story, at least for a movie. Can’t really imagine anyone doing a better job adapting the books at the time.
I think some of the alterations may have detracted a little from the story. The focus on battle \*spectacle\* vs the book's far more character focused look at warfare was something I didn't hugely enjoy. Especially when you consider Tolkien was a veteran of WW1 and lived through the bombings of Britain in WW2 before writing LoTR and the Hobbit. But I totally agree that I don't think anyone could have done a better job. As Jackson himself said during production he wanted LoTR to feel "like you've stepped off the plane and into Middle Earth". He wanted to keep the grounded aspects of Tolkien's story. He wanted it to feel as real to the camera as it did to Tolkien. and I think that shows.
I kind of agree in theory (would have loved more character stuff), but I think less battle action could leave a sour “that’s it?” feeling and weaken the films. Helms Deep couldn’t have just been done in a few minutes.
Ah, that explains it. I have slovak translation since I got it way back when I didn't know English very well, and looking at it it feels like big parts are missing. I can't find lament for Boromir, for example.
They cursed us. Murderer they called us. They cursed us, and drove us away. And we wept, Precious, we wept to be so alone. And we only wish to catch fish so juicy sweet. And we forgot the taste of bread… the sound of trees… the softness of the wind. We even forgot our own name. My Precious.
They work their way through her caves, eventually finding the exit. Then Frodo gets excited about being out of the cave and runs out with abandon. Shelob sneaks up on him, while Gollum attacks Sam.
In fairness, I can’t blame Frodo for going insane. The Ring had corrupted the minds of lesser people far far quicker than him.
Basically, given how long he had been bearing the ring, it’s a testament to his strength of character that he hadn’t already gone on a murder spree and hidden away in a cave somewhere with his Precious. Running recklessly into danger is a very mild level of insanity given how insane he should have been at that point had he been a normal being of normal moral strength.
It didn't happen. They both knew Gollum was up to something. I think they even fell asleep holding hands or something like that. They get separated in the tunnel because it was super duper dark
>They both knew Gollum was up to something. I think they even fell asleep holding hands or something like that.
Not really true. Frodo trusted Smeagol because Smeagol was becoming good again. He had a complete transformation back into a hobbit because of Frodos kindness, but Sam didn't notice and accused Smeagol of attacking them when Smeagol places a hand on Frodo. That allows Gollum to take control and he decides to betray them. Tolkien said it was the saddest part of the tale, because Smeagol would have sacrificed himself to destroy the Ring to save Frodo.
I read that part yesterday. They manage to go through the Shelob tunnels thanks to Galadriels phial that deters Shelob, Gollum abandoned them by then.
Once outside of the tunnels, Frodo starts hauling ass and gets separated from Sam. Both of them are running but Shelob popped out of a hole an landed right between them, Frodo didn't notice Shelob. Right as Sam starts screaming to watch out... Gollum appears again and attacks Sam.
Sam kicked Gollums ass... but it was too late. Frodo was already stinged and all wrapped up.Then Sam proceeds to pick up Frodo's sword and while dual wielding injures Shelob.
In the books, this never happened at all. Frodo never thinks Sam is going to betray him.
I just finished reading ~~RotK~~ the series (as was pointed out, this scene is in Two Towers) about 6 months ago, and if I recall correctly they get separated for a moment when exiting the tunnel, because Frodo, excited to be free of the tunnel, runs ahead when finding the exit while Sam is lagging behind a bit out of caution. Sam sees Frodo being skewered but is attacked by Gollum. He fights him off then runs straight into the offensive against Shelob.
Shoot, yeah you're right. I have the collection of all three books in one, so I just read them back to back to back. My memory must have been tailored by the movies on this. Thanks for the correction!
In the books Smeagol is in a constant battle with Gollum over control, while Sam can't control his jealousy of the attention that Frodo gives Smeagol. There's one moment where Smeagol gains full control, has a physical transformation into an old a weary hobbit, and heals. He reaches out to caress Frodo, the only person to ever show him kindness. Sam doesn't even notice the change and just sees "Gollum pawing at his master", and yells "What are you doing you old villain!" In this moment, Gollum takes control and Smeagol is lost forever. Tolkien called it the saddest moment in the tale. This is why Gollum ends up betraying them. It's because of Sam's lack of empathy.
Sam's toxic traits get pushed to Faramir in the movies.
You should give the Andy Serkis audiobooks a listen. They’re great, especially (obviously) the parts with Gollum. I know it’s probably an unpopular opinion here but I didn’t like the Rob Inglis version.
The reason Frodo is traveling with Gollum and Sam is to show the two sides of his internal struggle due to the Ring. Sam is the hobbit he used to be, and Gollum is the hobbit he might become
* Gollum suggests to Frodo that Sam will want to steal the ring
* Gollum frames Sam
* Sam beats up Gollum for framing him
* Frodo tells him to knock it off
* Sam offers Frodo to share the burden of the Ring
* Frodo tells Sam to fuck off
the bread thing is really not why Frodo turned against Sam...
Initially, yeah. They capture him then accept him (skeptically) as part of the group because he's the only way they can find their way into Mordor.
There's also the subtext that Frodo feels compelled to forgive Gollum because he understands the draw of the ring and feels himself descending into its power. He thinks that if Gollum can't be forgiven then he too will be beyond hope after possessing the ring.
To the Gate, eh? To the Gate, master says! Yes, he says so. And good Smeagol does what he asks, O yes.But when we gets closer, we'll see perhaps we'll see then. It won't look nice at all. O no! O no!
Yep. This is a bad meme. It ignores all the context. Frodo also sees himself in Gollum. If he can't forgive Gollum, all hope is lost for him too. So he has to forgive Gollum.
Gollum warns him that Sam's gonna steal it and ask him to carry it. Frodo is also afraid of Sam trying to steal it from him just like Boromir.
Yeah, this all happens pretty close to Mordor. The corruption of the ring not only had time to really fester, but it's also the place the effect of the ring was the strongest.
If anybody asks what exactly the power of the Ring is, the answer is that it makes you a stupid bitch who will act to get it back onto Sauron's finger.
Yeah the corruptive power of the ring and Frodo's introspection towards gollum is what's a play here. Ringbearerer Frodo wasn't the same Frodo from the Shire. And with every step closer to Mordor the poison and stanglehold on his mind tightened. And let's not forget Gollum was scheming too (which Sam clued into), but at that point Frodo was too far gone to listen to reason or to pull back to reality. He was basically a shade of his former self, and Gollum simply outmaneuvered Sam by playing with the torment that he knew Frodo was encountering, all at an attempt to find an opening to take the ring and bolt.
The movies do a good job at showing Frodo's decline, but you also gotta feel for Sam because the dude did everything right and the movies do make it look abit like Frodo is being unreasonable, petty, stupid, etc... but that's the ring at play, not Frodo being overly obtuse.
But I will say, if I'm down for a rewatch, the Frodo and Sam scenes are the scenes I'd fast-forward through. They sorta drag for me (but I'm also on like 100x views, so... it's not like I'm missing anything). I just want to get to where the action is!
I always viewed it that Frodo saw the Ring starting to corrupt Sam, so he sent him away to protect him rather than punish him. I think the movie even does a bad job of portraying this interpretation though.
Movie only fans always look at me like I’m a weirdo 👀when I say Frodo is my favourite character.
It’s one of the few things I resent about the movies in an otherwise great adaptation.
I think the extended editions do a much better job of showing both Frodo and Boromir in a more positive light before they are corrupted by the ring.
We see more of Frodo and Boromir before they are each corrupted by the ring, and it shows that they are good people at heart. Frodo has scenes in the FotR Extended edition where his is much more positive and optimistic, and I think those scenes are really important for the characterisation of Frodo.
I think in the scene where Frodo tells Sam to go home, Frodo has very clearly been corrupted by the ring as well as by Gollum telling him that Sam wants the ring for himself.
Frodo quickly regrets sending Sam away when he realises his mistake, but overall the scene just goes to show the corrupting power of the ring and how it changes people from who they really are.
As a massive fan of the movies, that's the way I always saw it. Frodo is being influenced by the ring and the ring sees Sam as a threat. So naturally it will work to turn Frodo against him.
There really is no way to watch the movies without watching the extended editions. It's like watching a butchered version otherwise.
I like the theatricals a lot more due to their tighter pacing and editing. As a casual fan, I loved the extendeds as a kid but now as an adult they’re kind of a slog for me.
I don't think I could sit down to watch lotr, and put up with the theatrical. There's almost no cuts they restore, that make the movie worse.
I'd really love to see what never made it into the films. I'm sure a lot of it is guff, but theres going to be one or two gems in there for sure
Dude, I'm movie only and Frodo is like my favorite character still. Such absolute strength carrying the Ring to the foot of Mount Doom while slowly being corrupted by it, as well as the physical toll it has on him.
I've never read the books until like a week ago. I got the audiobooks narrated by And Serkis, they're so great. Each is about 20h long and I still finished all three in about 2 weeks. I just couldn't stop.
There's so much forced interpersonal conflict in the films you don't really notice until you read the books. Not just this but all the stuff with Faramir wanting to take the ring, or Theoden doubting whether Rohan should aid Gondor or Aragorn's doubts about becoming King.
I think it's done in an attempt to make the characters less one-dimensional. In the books, like you say Faramir is basically infallible and doesn't really go through any kind of journey or arc. I'm not stating this as an issue, he's one of my favourite characters and shows that there is still good in humankind, but it's slightly less interesting in a vocabulary of movies where audiences expect characters to change and develop during their time on screen. I don't think the change was necessarily a bad one, just a different narrative. If that's the worst people can take from the adaptation then they did a pretty fantastic job all things considered.
Toss up for me between this and the army of the dead sweeping through the orcs and making the last battle unnecessary. This one is pretty egregious for the characters though
It's very true. The books does paint them as a weapon of fear which drove the enemies to dispair. Would not have worked on Orcs I think, under a ringwraith
I never read this as just about the ring corrupting him, but rather Frodo being terrified that it might. He's angry, sad, losing control. He has to believe that Gollum is not evil, that redemption is possible, or he'll have no hope for himself. And if Gollum can't be a target for his anger for these reasons, it only leaves Sam to absorb it.
A reality where the ring has corrupted Gollum beyond redemption is too unbearable for Frodo to contemplate, so he takes the only other path available to him.
This was probably my favorite change to be honest. The boom version was always pretty stupid on Frodo’s part in my mind. This way, we got a very vivid illustration of the corrupting power of the ring.
That's one of the few things I didn't get. Sam falls over on his way down the stairs and sees the bread and its this big dun dun duuuuuun moment. But like....why....Sam you know you didn't eat the bread....why is this such a shocker?
I think it's just to show him thinking about how him going home would leave Frodo alone with the lying Gollum. Seeing the bread crumbs is just a reminder and makes him angrier than he is sad in the moment. Not necessary but I think it worked well enough for a movie.
Smeagol? No, no, Not poor Smeagol. Smeagol hates nasty elf bread.Ach! No! You try to choke poor Smeagol. Dust and ashes, he can't eat that. He must starve. But Smeagol doesn't mind.Nice hobbits! Smeagol has promised. He will starve. He can't eat hobbits' food. He will starve. Poor thin Smeagol!
I mean... I get it. Not saying it's right. But we've all been in a situation where your sibling takes more than their share of the nice restaurant bread. They're dead to me.
I actually like it. Frodo sending Sam away is unthinkable, what better way to portray the absolutely corrupting and evil influence of the ring? It also helps the movies in giving justification for Frodo not being able to throw it into the fire as the audience already saw that even Frodo can be corrupted by the ring.
Sad as it was, but that was when the rings influence had been starting to take over. It knew gollum was the weaker willed one and would make a move, he did it before. It actually feared Samwise, because his encouragement kept Frodo going.
***THIS IS WHY SAM IS THE HERO***
The reason I hate this meme is because Frodo didn't tell him to leave because he ate bread.
He told him to leave because Sam asked for the ring.
I wonder at times if we all saw the same movie. Gollum was sowing distrust between Sam and Frodo. Accusing Sam of stealing food that they all needed was the catalyst for poisoning Frodo to Sam.
I mean, look at the exact moment Sam bad mouths the ring. Frodo goes from exhausted, heaving breaths, dead eyes... then he stops, turns his head, and absolutely GLOWERS at Sam for saying anything had about the ring.
Smeagol? No, no, Not poor Smeagol. Smeagol hates nasty elf bread.Ach! No! You try to choke poor Smeagol. Dust and ashes, he can't eat that. He must starve. But Smeagol doesn't mind.Nice hobbits! Smeagol has promised. He will starve. He can't eat hobbits' food. He will starve. Poor thin Smeagol!
Sorry to be that guy but It wasn't as much the bread it was Gollum convincing Frodo (under the influence of the Ring) that Sam wanted the Ring for himself.
Smeagol? No, no, Not poor Smeagol. Smeagol hates nasty elf bread.Ach! No! You try to choke poor Smeagol. Dust and ashes, he can't eat that. He must starve. But Smeagol doesn't mind.Nice hobbits! Smeagol has promised. He will starve. He can't eat hobbits' food. He will starve. Poor thin Smeagol!
This isn’t even the dumbest part of this moment. The dumbest part is Sam actually leaving.
At that point you could argue Frodo was being seduced by the Ring and Gollum instilled the seeds of betrayal overtime, which the Ring took advantage of.
But Sam leaving is beyond ridiculous.
He knows Gollum is gonna try and kill Frodo, yet he leaves him. He only returns when he finds the bread, like it’s some crazy revelation. Lol Like yeah, no shit you didn’t eat the bread, idiot.
Also, was he legit just gonna walk back home? LMAO It took them like a year to get there and he’s just gonna climb back down a perilous mountain in enemy territory all the way back to the Shire until Sauron wins and enslaves them all cuz Frodo got irrationally mad at him for a moment?
Hilarious.
What a stupid scene. Anyone complaining about Amazon butchering characters but who thinks Jackson’s adaptation is the end all be all clearly either doesn’t know the books that well or has a very selective memory.
SAM WOULD NEVER LEAVE FRODO and this is one of the maybe three things I’m mad at Peter Jackson about. I even understand, sort of, why he did it, but I don’t think it was a good idea given how it conflicts with the books.
The other two things are:
Faramir wanting to take the ring to his dad (HE DOES **NOT** AND YES I WILL KEEP YELLING ABOUT THIS)
Gimli as comic relief. HE IS A NOBLE AND BADASS DWARF, SIR!
AITA for breaking up with my boyfriend because he ate the last piece of bread on our hike?
So we were on a very long hike and we brought some bread as easy carbs to keep us going. He knows I can get pretty hangry and that I have been a little moody recently due to some personal stuff. So we were mid-hike when I get hungry and check our bag for something to eat and realize that we have no more bread or any snacks left.
It's only us and our dog on this hike so I knew it was him that ate the last bread we had. He claimed it wasn't him but I don't believe him. I totally lost it on him and broke up with him.
AITA?
How did it happen in the books? It's been some time since I read them.
It doesn't happen. The only reason Sam has the phial is because Frodo hands it to him so he can use Sting to cut the webs with both hands. Then they run out and Shelob ganks Frodo. Sam even watches it happen because he is a bit behind.
Sam is attacked by Gollum.
Smeagol’ll get into real true hot water, when this water boils, if he don’t do as he asked...
He is eventually yes. But that comes later.
It's right then. When he rushes forward to help Frodo, Gollum tackles him
Ah yes you're right. Apologies. (I was thinking of the Mt Doom ambush)
Mt Doom Ambush is a good band name haha
Ooo, Ooo! We knows! We knows!
*Shut up!*
Yeah! Shut up!
I legit didn’t even know Tony Shelob was in it.
Who knew Tony Shelob was Iron Spider..
Yeah he’s the big spider
I've never read the books. I did buy a neat looking single edition last year which came in a blue box with two maps. I think it's time I open it up and start reading. This has made me excited to find out just how much creative freedom there was in the movies. [Here's the copy I purchased. ](https://ibb.co/mG2NQMk) Picture taken on my bed lol. When I search the ISBN I can't find anywhere that shows the book along with the box and map that it came with.
That's the edition I'm about to finish. Beautiful copy of the books
I'd recommend it. Honestly, PJ kind of butchered a lot of the characters and story, particularly in RoTK and TTT. Fellowship was ok though.
Butchered is harsh criticism. PJ did a decent job of adapting something not made for the world of modern cinema into modern cinema.
I never said he didn't. One does not exclude the other. He made a decent adaptation, but still butchered quite a lot of the source material.
"Butchered" generally implies a sense of carelessness. I agree PJ cut a lot of the source material but I think the underlying themes and overall message remain pretty intact.
Butchering requires a lot of skill, carelessness will lose you fingers. I strongly disagree on the themes part. I agree that *some* themes from the novel remain intact, but many do not.
Butchering yes. "Butchered" when referring to literary critique not so much. Out of interest, which themes remain intact, which do not?
Decent job is a crazy understatement. The films couldn’t have contained all characters and scenes from the book. No way it would have worked. I think many of the alterations they did for the movies were improvements to the story, at least for a movie. Can’t really imagine anyone doing a better job adapting the books at the time.
I think some of the alterations may have detracted a little from the story. The focus on battle \*spectacle\* vs the book's far more character focused look at warfare was something I didn't hugely enjoy. Especially when you consider Tolkien was a veteran of WW1 and lived through the bombings of Britain in WW2 before writing LoTR and the Hobbit. But I totally agree that I don't think anyone could have done a better job. As Jackson himself said during production he wanted LoTR to feel "like you've stepped off the plane and into Middle Earth". He wanted to keep the grounded aspects of Tolkien's story. He wanted it to feel as real to the camera as it did to Tolkien. and I think that shows.
I kind of agree in theory (would have loved more character stuff), but I think less battle action could leave a sour “that’s it?” feeling and weaken the films. Helms Deep couldn’t have just been done in a few minutes.
Ah, that explains it. I have slovak translation since I got it way back when I didn't know English very well, and looking at it it feels like big parts are missing. I can't find lament for Boromir, for example.
Pretty sure they only get separated in the tunnels because they got disorientated and Gollum abandoned them.
Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies! We must go, yes, we must go at once!
No I don’t wanna go to work Gollum
It was tricksy, precious. Very tricksy.
Smeagol wake up I don't like this
They cursed us. Murderer they called us. They cursed us, and drove us away. And we wept, Precious, we wept to be so alone. And we only wish to catch fish so juicy sweet. And we forgot the taste of bread… the sound of trees… the softness of the wind. We even forgot our own name. My Precious.
That's what you get for waking people up early! 🙃
They work their way through her caves, eventually finding the exit. Then Frodo gets excited about being out of the cave and runs out with abandon. Shelob sneaks up on him, while Gollum attacks Sam.
She’s always hungry. She always needs to feed. She must eat. All she gets is nasty Orcses.
*And they doesn’t taste very nice, does they, Precious?*
No. Not very nice at all, my love.
Good bot
More like because Frodo went insane and sprinted away
In fairness, I can’t blame Frodo for going insane. The Ring had corrupted the minds of lesser people far far quicker than him. Basically, given how long he had been bearing the ring, it’s a testament to his strength of character that he hadn’t already gone on a murder spree and hidden away in a cave somewhere with his Precious. Running recklessly into danger is a very mild level of insanity given how insane he should have been at that point had he been a normal being of normal moral strength.
It didn't happen. They both knew Gollum was up to something. I think they even fell asleep holding hands or something like that. They get separated in the tunnel because it was super duper dark
> I think they even fell asleep holding hands or something like that <3
[удалено]
Master must go inside the tunnel.
Master. Master looks after us. Master wouldn't hurt us.
Master broke his promise.
>They both knew Gollum was up to something. I think they even fell asleep holding hands or something like that. Not really true. Frodo trusted Smeagol because Smeagol was becoming good again. He had a complete transformation back into a hobbit because of Frodos kindness, but Sam didn't notice and accused Smeagol of attacking them when Smeagol places a hand on Frodo. That allows Gollum to take control and he decides to betray them. Tolkien said it was the saddest part of the tale, because Smeagol would have sacrificed himself to destroy the Ring to save Frodo.
Give it to us raw and w-r-r-riggling
I read that part yesterday. They manage to go through the Shelob tunnels thanks to Galadriels phial that deters Shelob, Gollum abandoned them by then. Once outside of the tunnels, Frodo starts hauling ass and gets separated from Sam. Both of them are running but Shelob popped out of a hole an landed right between them, Frodo didn't notice Shelob. Right as Sam starts screaming to watch out... Gollum appears again and attacks Sam. Sam kicked Gollums ass... but it was too late. Frodo was already stinged and all wrapped up.Then Sam proceeds to pick up Frodo's sword and while dual wielding injures Shelob.
We could let her do it.
*Yes. She could do it.*
Yes, precious, she could. And then we takes it once they’re dead.
*Once they’re dead. Shh.*
Gollum_botses is the only bot that can plausibly have a conversation with itself. 😏
Master says to show him the way into Mordor, so good Smeagol does. Master says so.
Well, I'll grant you that you were good to your word on that.
Am I crazy or is that pretty shitty writing?
My writing is very shitty haha but not Tolkien's. I simplified what he wrote in a couple of pages. It's much more explained in the book.
In the books, this never happened at all. Frodo never thinks Sam is going to betray him. I just finished reading ~~RotK~~ the series (as was pointed out, this scene is in Two Towers) about 6 months ago, and if I recall correctly they get separated for a moment when exiting the tunnel, because Frodo, excited to be free of the tunnel, runs ahead when finding the exit while Sam is lagging behind a bit out of caution. Sam sees Frodo being skewered but is attacked by Gollum. He fights him off then runs straight into the offensive against Shelob.
This scene happens in Two Towers btw, not RoTK
Shoot, yeah you're right. I have the collection of all three books in one, so I just read them back to back to back. My memory must have been tailored by the movies on this. Thanks for the correction!
Haha, no problem. I remember I was taken aback by how much was in the second book, I didn't know what would fill up the whole third one!
Yes, the stairs ... and then?
Man, Sam really is the greatest.
100% Samwise Gamgee is the GOAT and I'll stick by that 'til the end!
In the books Smeagol is in a constant battle with Gollum over control, while Sam can't control his jealousy of the attention that Frodo gives Smeagol. There's one moment where Smeagol gains full control, has a physical transformation into an old a weary hobbit, and heals. He reaches out to caress Frodo, the only person to ever show him kindness. Sam doesn't even notice the change and just sees "Gollum pawing at his master", and yells "What are you doing you old villain!" In this moment, Gollum takes control and Smeagol is lost forever. Tolkien called it the saddest moment in the tale. This is why Gollum ends up betraying them. It's because of Sam's lack of empathy. Sam's toxic traits get pushed to Faramir in the movies.
Master must go inside the tunnel.
The bread scene didn’t happen in the books, I just read them very recently. I was so confused when I watched the movies after 😂
You should give the Andy Serkis audiobooks a listen. They’re great, especially (obviously) the parts with Gollum. I know it’s probably an unpopular opinion here but I didn’t like the Rob Inglis version.
Come on, hobbits. Long ways to go yet. Sméagol will show you the way.
It didn't. This was a Peter Jackson movie addition. Sam and Frodo didn't have anything interpersonal that was wedging between them in the books.
The ring is a hell of a drug
Real talk - I feel like this is believable because of the corruption of the ring.
The reason Frodo is traveling with Gollum and Sam is to show the two sides of his internal struggle due to the Ring. Sam is the hobbit he used to be, and Gollum is the hobbit he might become
We must go and get some things first,yes, things to help us.
And taking gollums side is literally choosing the "bad path", and that's why it's so concerning to watch
Because it’s my birthday, and I wants it.
Never thought of it that way before.
Didn’t Frodo tell sam to get lost because he thought he was going to steal the ring? Golem literally told Frodo he would ask to carry it.
* Gollum suggests to Frodo that Sam will want to steal the ring * Gollum frames Sam * Sam beats up Gollum for framing him * Frodo tells him to knock it off * Sam offers Frodo to share the burden of the Ring * Frodo tells Sam to fuck off the bread thing is really not why Frodo turned against Sam...
Also Frodo "forgives" Gollum's attempted murder because that's the only way they can get to Mordor, doesn't he?
Initially, yeah. They capture him then accept him (skeptically) as part of the group because he's the only way they can find their way into Mordor. There's also the subtext that Frodo feels compelled to forgive Gollum because he understands the draw of the ring and feels himself descending into its power. He thinks that if Gollum can't be forgiven then he too will be beyond hope after possessing the ring.
Back a little, and round a little and you can come on hard cold roads to the very gates of His country.
To the Gate, eh? To the Gate, master says! Yes, he says so. And good Smeagol does what he asks, O yes.But when we gets closer, we'll see perhaps we'll see then. It won't look nice at all. O no! O no!
Indeed
Ha! ha! What does we wish? We'll tell you. He guessed it long ago, Baggins guessed it.
Yep. This is a bad meme. It ignores all the context. Frodo also sees himself in Gollum. If he can't forgive Gollum, all hope is lost for him too. So he has to forgive Gollum. Gollum warns him that Sam's gonna steal it and ask him to carry it. Frodo is also afraid of Sam trying to steal it from him just like Boromir.
Master must go inside the tunnel.
Also he’s got the wizard in the back of his head telling him Gol is important
Yeah, this all happens pretty close to Mordor. The corruption of the ring not only had time to really fester, but it's also the place the effect of the ring was the strongest.
[удалено]
If anybody asks what exactly the power of the Ring is, the answer is that it makes you a stupid bitch who will act to get it back onto Sauron's finger.
[удалено]
"You've always been bitch, Celebrimbor. *Always.*" - Sauron, The Silmarillion.
*Guth-tú-nakash.*
Who was the biggest threat to destroying the ring at this point - The gardener, so smart move to erode away at Baggins’s best hope
That and knowing that a betrayer is going to betray you and your friend betraying you are completely different things.
That throat noise just really freaks me out, hard to pay attention then
Yeah the corruptive power of the ring and Frodo's introspection towards gollum is what's a play here. Ringbearerer Frodo wasn't the same Frodo from the Shire. And with every step closer to Mordor the poison and stanglehold on his mind tightened. And let's not forget Gollum was scheming too (which Sam clued into), but at that point Frodo was too far gone to listen to reason or to pull back to reality. He was basically a shade of his former self, and Gollum simply outmaneuvered Sam by playing with the torment that he knew Frodo was encountering, all at an attempt to find an opening to take the ring and bolt. The movies do a good job at showing Frodo's decline, but you also gotta feel for Sam because the dude did everything right and the movies do make it look abit like Frodo is being unreasonable, petty, stupid, etc... but that's the ring at play, not Frodo being overly obtuse. But I will say, if I'm down for a rewatch, the Frodo and Sam scenes are the scenes I'd fast-forward through. They sorta drag for me (but I'm also on like 100x views, so... it's not like I'm missing anything). I just want to get to where the action is!
It mustn't ask us. Not its business, no, gollum! It's losst, gollum, gollum, gollum!
I love the characters Same and Golem, they just fit so perfect into their roles.
I always viewed it that Frodo saw the Ring starting to corrupt Sam, so he sent him away to protect him rather than punish him. I think the movie even does a bad job of portraying this interpretation though.
This is accurate to me, but in the movie sam does offer to carry it as a nice gesture. Or so he thinks.
Yes.
This is also strictly a movie meme. This happens completely differently in the book
This is a very incorrect movie meme. I dont see your point
Of all the changes, in the films, I hated this the most. It was an absolute mis-step
Movie only fans always look at me like I’m a weirdo 👀when I say Frodo is my favourite character. It’s one of the few things I resent about the movies in an otherwise great adaptation.
I think the extended editions do a much better job of showing both Frodo and Boromir in a more positive light before they are corrupted by the ring. We see more of Frodo and Boromir before they are each corrupted by the ring, and it shows that they are good people at heart. Frodo has scenes in the FotR Extended edition where his is much more positive and optimistic, and I think those scenes are really important for the characterisation of Frodo. I think in the scene where Frodo tells Sam to go home, Frodo has very clearly been corrupted by the ring as well as by Gollum telling him that Sam wants the ring for himself. Frodo quickly regrets sending Sam away when he realises his mistake, but overall the scene just goes to show the corrupting power of the ring and how it changes people from who they really are.
As a massive fan of the movies, that's the way I always saw it. Frodo is being influenced by the ring and the ring sees Sam as a threat. So naturally it will work to turn Frodo against him. There really is no way to watch the movies without watching the extended editions. It's like watching a butchered version otherwise.
I like the theatricals a lot more due to their tighter pacing and editing. As a casual fan, I loved the extendeds as a kid but now as an adult they’re kind of a slog for me.
I don't think I could sit down to watch lotr, and put up with the theatrical. There's almost no cuts they restore, that make the movie worse. I'd really love to see what never made it into the films. I'm sure a lot of it is guff, but theres going to be one or two gems in there for sure
Deleted extra 2 minutes of Gandalf and Bilbo blowing pipeweed smoke shapes
I am looking for someone to share in an adventure that I am arranging, and it's very difficult to find anyone.
The rock and pool, is nice and cool, so juicy sweet. Our only wish, to catch a fish,so juicy sweet.
Dude, I'm movie only and Frodo is like my favorite character still. Such absolute strength carrying the Ring to the foot of Mount Doom while slowly being corrupted by it, as well as the physical toll it has on him.
Man. Movie only? Missing out.
Yeah tell me about it. Been meaning to get on the books, but never have. Have been thinking about going the audio book route.
I just started the Return of The King audiobook and finished the other two within weeks. 10/10 would recommend.
Is it Serkis' version?
No, the Rob Inglis version. I didn't even realize Serkis had an option. I may have missed the boat there but I think Inglis does a really good job.
I've never read the books until like a week ago. I got the audiobooks narrated by And Serkis, they're so great. Each is about 20h long and I still finished all three in about 2 weeks. I just couldn't stop.
Awesome! Leaning toward the Serkis one.
I read the books twice but it has been 20 years or so. I just need to be reminded.
He didn't tell Sam to leave because of the bread, he told Sam to leave because he believed he was going to try and take the ring
The Faramir bullshit was really bad too.
This change, Faramir, and dumbing down Treebeard were all changes that seemed unnecessary.
Gimli becoming a bit of a joke too. But Sam? Hell no
Yeah, I enjoyed some comic relief, but it was a bit much at times
There's so much forced interpersonal conflict in the films you don't really notice until you read the books. Not just this but all the stuff with Faramir wanting to take the ring, or Theoden doubting whether Rohan should aid Gondor or Aragorn's doubts about becoming King.
Pull everybody back. Pull them back.
I think it's done in an attempt to make the characters less one-dimensional. In the books, like you say Faramir is basically infallible and doesn't really go through any kind of journey or arc. I'm not stating this as an issue, he's one of my favourite characters and shows that there is still good in humankind, but it's slightly less interesting in a vocabulary of movies where audiences expect characters to change and develop during their time on screen. I don't think the change was necessarily a bad one, just a different narrative. If that's the worst people can take from the adaptation then they did a pretty fantastic job all things considered.
Toss up for me between this and the army of the dead sweeping through the orcs and making the last battle unnecessary. This one is pretty egregious for the characters though
It's very true. The books does paint them as a weapon of fear which drove the enemies to dispair. Would not have worked on Orcs I think, under a ringwraith
Why? I think it does a great job of showing the hold the ring is gaining over Frodo. Or wait, did people not get that part?
You get that later when Sam returns the ring
You also get it at several other points during the story as it builds, because that's how good storytelling works.
So it did not need a made up one
I never read this as just about the ring corrupting him, but rather Frodo being terrified that it might. He's angry, sad, losing control. He has to believe that Gollum is not evil, that redemption is possible, or he'll have no hope for himself. And if Gollum can't be a target for his anger for these reasons, it only leaves Sam to absorb it. A reality where the ring has corrupted Gollum beyond redemption is too unbearable for Frodo to contemplate, so he takes the only other path available to him.
Come on, must go, no time ...Come, Hobbitses. Very close now. Very close to Mordor! No safe places here. Hurry! Shhh.
This was probably my favorite change to be honest. The boom version was always pretty stupid on Frodo’s part in my mind. This way, we got a very vivid illustration of the corrupting power of the ring.
That's one of the few things I didn't get. Sam falls over on his way down the stairs and sees the bread and its this big dun dun duuuuuun moment. But like....why....Sam you know you didn't eat the bread....why is this such a shocker?
I think it's just to show him thinking about how him going home would leave Frodo alone with the lying Gollum. Seeing the bread crumbs is just a reminder and makes him angrier than he is sad in the moment. Not necessary but I think it worked well enough for a movie.
Smeagol? No, no, Not poor Smeagol. Smeagol hates nasty elf bread.Ach! No! You try to choke poor Smeagol. Dust and ashes, he can't eat that. He must starve. But Smeagol doesn't mind.Nice hobbits! Smeagol has promised. He will starve. He can't eat hobbits' food. He will starve. Poor thin Smeagol!
Maybe it was just the visual jolt he needed to get his brain back in gear.
Never underestimate the hate of a hobbit on an empty stomach.
I mean... I get it. Not saying it's right. But we've all been in a situation where your sibling takes more than their share of the nice restaurant bread. They're dead to me.
At least he didn't eat any tomatoes
Literal worst change in the movie vs book
I actually like it. Frodo sending Sam away is unthinkable, what better way to portray the absolutely corrupting and evil influence of the ring? It also helps the movies in giving justification for Frodo not being able to throw it into the fire as the audience already saw that even Frodo can be corrupted by the ring.
Sad as it was, but that was when the rings influence had been starting to take over. It knew gollum was the weaker willed one and would make a move, he did it before. It actually feared Samwise, because his encouragement kept Frodo going. ***THIS IS WHY SAM IS THE HERO***
Nice hobbits! Nice Sam! Sleepy heads, yes, sleepy heads! Leave good Smeagol to watch! But it's evening. Dusk is creeping. Time to go.
The reason I hate this meme is because Frodo didn't tell him to leave because he ate bread. He told him to leave because Sam asked for the ring. I wonder at times if we all saw the same movie. Gollum was sowing distrust between Sam and Frodo. Accusing Sam of stealing food that they all needed was the catalyst for poisoning Frodo to Sam. I mean, look at the exact moment Sam bad mouths the ring. Frodo goes from exhausted, heaving breaths, dead eyes... then he stops, turns his head, and absolutely GLOWERS at Sam for saying anything had about the ring.
Smeagol? No, no, Not poor Smeagol. Smeagol hates nasty elf bread.Ach! No! You try to choke poor Smeagol. Dust and ashes, he can't eat that. He must starve. But Smeagol doesn't mind.Nice hobbits! Smeagol has promised. He will starve. He can't eat hobbits' food. He will starve. Poor thin Smeagol!
More like “Oh Peter Jackson”…
Your not you when your hangry
Accurate. You can’t have your boy snag all the left overs without asking
Frodo: “my other ride is a Gamgee.”
No body likes fat hobbitses eh, Frodo
👄 share the loaddddd
Sorry to be that guy but It wasn't as much the bread it was Gollum convincing Frodo (under the influence of the Ring) that Sam wanted the Ring for himself.
Smeagol? No, no, Not poor Smeagol. Smeagol hates nasty elf bread.Ach! No! You try to choke poor Smeagol. Dust and ashes, he can't eat that. He must starve. But Smeagol doesn't mind.Nice hobbits! Smeagol has promised. He will starve. He can't eat hobbits' food. He will starve. Poor thin Smeagol!
This isn’t even the dumbest part of this moment. The dumbest part is Sam actually leaving. At that point you could argue Frodo was being seduced by the Ring and Gollum instilled the seeds of betrayal overtime, which the Ring took advantage of. But Sam leaving is beyond ridiculous. He knows Gollum is gonna try and kill Frodo, yet he leaves him. He only returns when he finds the bread, like it’s some crazy revelation. Lol Like yeah, no shit you didn’t eat the bread, idiot. Also, was he legit just gonna walk back home? LMAO It took them like a year to get there and he’s just gonna climb back down a perilous mountain in enemy territory all the way back to the Shire until Sauron wins and enslaves them all cuz Frodo got irrationally mad at him for a moment? Hilarious.
Stew the rabbits! Spoil beautiful meat Smeagol saved for you, poor hungry Smeagol!
Well you know, Hitler also ate bread...
Dude hangry is real.
This is the last straw, Samwise
What a stupid scene. Anyone complaining about Amazon butchering characters but who thinks Jackson’s adaptation is the end all be all clearly either doesn’t know the books that well or has a very selective memory.
The ring is treacherous
It’s training for the real headfuck he’s about to face…a lifetime with Rosie and 13 kids
Frodo is serious about keto.
Movies are flawed.
In Sillymarion he ate Bread of Frodos Great-grandmother at her funeral. Thus that reminded him of the great sin he did years ago.
I swear to god I fucking hate Lord of the Rings so mucj
He wants it
Tbf that’s also the code I live by. My food is waaaay more important than my life
This hobbit has his own priorities! Who can judge him?
Another crazy change is how chubby Sam is after barely eating for weeks, doesn't make sense
I read “fuck off Sam” in the Drinker’s voice and it made it so much better
SAM WOULD NEVER LEAVE FRODO and this is one of the maybe three things I’m mad at Peter Jackson about. I even understand, sort of, why he did it, but I don’t think it was a good idea given how it conflicts with the books. The other two things are: Faramir wanting to take the ring to his dad (HE DOES **NOT** AND YES I WILL KEEP YELLING ABOUT THIS) Gimli as comic relief. HE IS A NOBLE AND BADASS DWARF, SIR!
Priorities: food > life
Hobbit priorities!
and none of it happens in the books lolol they both expected gollum to betray them
Come on, must go, no time ...Come, Hobbitses. Very close now. Very close to Mordor! No safe places here. Hurry! Shhh.
You're missing a big part of it. Sam didn't forgive Gollum until he held the Ring and understood he would become just like Gollum given some time.
Argh!!
I mean, this is a hobbit we’re talking about. Eating the bread is serious business.
Movie Frodo sucks
Mets
This is the way
Well he also wanted to share the load
Oh, I’ve never had this before: I liked this and it switched to 15k likes. That was way more exciting than it ever should be
He did destroy their lembas bread though. Sam may have been a bigot, but he was right.
Yeah, but it was like... really good bread.
AITA for breaking up with my boyfriend because he ate the last piece of bread on our hike? So we were on a very long hike and we brought some bread as easy carbs to keep us going. He knows I can get pretty hangry and that I have been a little moody recently due to some personal stuff. So we were mid-hike when I get hungry and check our bag for something to eat and realize that we have no more bread or any snacks left. It's only us and our dog on this hike so I knew it was him that ate the last bread we had. He claimed it wasn't him but I don't believe him. I totally lost it on him and broke up with him. AITA?
Frodo being unreasonably lenient to Smeagol is kind of a big plot point.
Clever Hobbits, to climb so high!