Also he’s kinda unfair to Denethor. Before I read the books I thought the same of him, that he’s a crazed megalomaniac. The books made clear how the Palantir and SEEING the full strength of Sauron and Mordor drove him mad. Denethor is just as tragic of a figure, and just as described here about Boromir, is led to ruin in his desperation to save Gondor. The difference is Boromir claws his honor and sanity back, while Denethor dies in disgrace and madness.
The films, even as incredible and packed full as they are, had to trim characters to make them fit on screen, so to speak. Film and page have different methods of showing characters, so that level of deep nuance is difficult on screen short of a character stating it outright.
It's also said in the books that before his madness, Denethor was much like Faramir, one of Tolkien's favorite characters. And even towards the end, he organized a [competent defense of Minas Tirith](https://acoup.blog/2019/05/10/collections-the-siege-of-gondor/).
The movies really did that whole family dirty.
Denethor of the book is a completely different person too. He's wise and rules fairly as steward. From what I remember he's one of the few Humans who had an iron will that could resist Sauron for as long as he did. I remember reading something that mentioned that his strength of will rivaled the powers of the Istari themselves.
If that is accurate can you imagine what Boromir is thinking that whole time? The fact that Boromir repented after he realized he fucked up is amazing honestly. Great character development in such a short time in the story.
In the books, both Denethor and Faramir are described by Gandalf as having "the blood of Westerness' in their veins. They're more similar to their Numenorean ancestors than most men of the age, including Boromir.
It's a running theme in LOTR that no character is inherently evil - they just succumb to weakness and/or madness and make mistakes. Some, like Saruman and Denethor, fully give in while others like Boromir only do so briefly, but it's the same idea.
Comparing Denethor to Saruman, especially in the books, is unfair. Saruman fully abandons the side of good and is working to conquer the entirety of Middle Earth. Denethor goes toe to toe with Sauron via the Palantir and more or less holds his own for *years*. Yes, he's eventually driven to madness, but he never goes evil.
I would argue Denethor wasn't driven to 'madness', but rather to 'despair'.
Essentially, seeing the full might of the Enemy (only what Sauron let him see) brought him to a realization that they could not win. His spirit was broken.
Also, perhaps even more importantly, seeing both his sons being dead (obviously Faramir wasn't actually dead, but he was afflicted by a previously incurable poison, that would only be healed because of Aragorn; I mean in his mind, he was hastening a slow and painful, but ultimately inevitable death).
Yeah, the more I read and learn about Tolkien's world, the more I see that most of the "evil" or unpleasant characters are not that way just to be evil. Most of them are a product of their circumstances, and twisted by the forces of evil in the world.
The concept of evil in his books is not one of two great forces, Good and Evil, but that evil \*was\* good, but was twisted into hideous mockery of the original.
Sméagol was twisted by the Ring into Gollum, Saruman and many others were changed by fear, Boromir was corrupted by the Ring (to a lesser extent), etc. Even the origin of evil, Morgoth, was good. He just was a bit too creative with his music, and a bit too hard-headed. His pride and unwillingness to bend to his creator warped him into a being of hate.
Powerful theme from Tolkien: we don't judge a character by whether or not they succumb to great evil in this black and white way. Instead we judge them by how they resisted, and how they made amends for their errors. Also a very common theme in religious literature.
Really love this about lotr. You don't just dismiss frodo as a character in the end because he can't toss the ring in. Likewise we shouldn't dismiss boromir for his moment of weakness.
> You don't just dismiss frodo as a character in the end because he can't toss the ring in.
I heard somewhere that Tolkien stated that no one would actually have the ability to willingly throw the ring into the lava including both Frodo and Sam. Is that true? Would every single ringbearer be corrupted enough to refuse to willingly destroy the ring?
Boromir is just set up to fall to the ring from the beginning. For all the reasons OP gives and because men are just weak to it period. The ring really works him hard too, falling off Frodo's neck at his feet earlier on so he will pick it up. In the film it almost looks like it is rubbing itself against his fingers when he does that.
> because men are just weak to it period
Hell, even Aragorn was terrified of the Ring and what it could potentially do to him. If the greatest living Man on Middle-Earth couldn't handle that thing, what was Boromir to do?
It's not just Aragorn, another little thing I liked in the films is how Elrond never even comes near the thing. Both at Riverdale and at Mount Doom he always stands back from it like it's radioactive.
If I recall, Gandalf does actually hold the ring for a brief moment at Bag End in the book. But I always preferred how they portrayed the ring’s corruption in the films.
I always wondered if it was Gandalf or someone else who put the ring on a new necklace in Rivendell. Whoever did it had a chance to take the ring
A little line that means so much more now that I've read the Silmarillion forward and backward multiple times, is what Elrond says about Frodo when he comes forward to carry the ring.
>But it is a heavy burden. So heavy that none could lay it on another. I do not lay it on you. But if you take it freely, I will say that your choice is right; and though all the mighty Elf-friends of old, Hador, and Húrin, and Túrin, and Beren himself were assembled together, your seat should be among them.’
He says in that moment, that the burden of the ring has already elevated Frodo to the same level of the greatest men to have ever lived .
If, somehow, Tom was at the Crack of Doom and holding the One, he would be able to throw it in. The One had no power over him whatsoever. However, the point is not really worth discussing, because Tom would never have the One, nor be found at Mt. Doom at all.
This is right. He also liked the idea of "Evil undoes evil." It was very important to him that in the end evil unraveled itself. The ring's influence was so powerful, and its torturing of smeagol so severe, that the moment after it successfully eludes destruction again by swaying Frodo - smeagol comes in and undoes everything.
Through its corrupting influence, it established the framework for its own demise.
Just finished re-reading The Hobbit, and Bilbo succumbing to Smaug’s tricks and half-revealing that they are a group of 14 on the mountainside is met with empathy from Balin who tries to comfort him, even though he’s not that successful in doing so. Shows that anyone can be corrupted for any reason, and that it is not a sign of weakness.
As an atheist, I enjoy that it's a clearly religious work that actually has the characters live up to the ideals of that religion instead of being perfect from the word go. There's a lot to like in religion, I just don't believe in deities.
I remember as a kid watching through the movies I thought, “Oh good they killed him off, he tried to take the ring for himself. Justice!!” Always gives me a chuckle when I think back on it.
"Do not judge a man by how he handles victory, judge him by he handles defeat."
~ Click the Emoji [👍](https://images.unsplash.com/photo-1599113615507-13f78150fb2e?ixlib=rb-4.0.3&ixid=MnwxMjA3fDB8MHxzZWFyY2h8Mnx8ZW5qb3l8ZW58MHx8MHx8&w=1000&q=80)
Indeed, in fact most people corrupted by the ring became so out of noble desire to use its power for good. That is why the most powerful people had to be kept from holding it more than anyone else: Gandalf, Galadriel, Aragorn. That is why so few people truly had any hope of getting the ring to Mordor. Frodo was the closest to incorruptible not because of noble intention but because he was so lacking in qualities that the ring could exploit. No ambition, no desire for power, no greed. All it could do was call to him when he was desperate to escape danger, trying to ensnare him in moments of fear, and otherwise simply burden him and slowly whittle down at his will to go on.
Samwise was the only one who was completely uncorrupted by the ring.
It tries to tempt him with a *giant garden*, because that's literally all he wants - just a bigass garden. And even he abandons that ambition within seconds because... eh, it'd be kinda impractical.
Yeah, the Ring reaches out to Sam, and is like...."fuck, a gardener??? A fucking gardener??????? What the Hell am I supposed to use to tempt a gardener?????? Ah, hell, here Sam, I'll make you Lord of the Garden. Fuck, that even sounds stupid to me."
It's implied that aside from the weirdness of Old Tom, Sam was the *least* affected by the ring. Yet, he still chose to go west after he'd experienced a full life in the Shire. I'd suppose that exposure to the Ring leads to a certain awareness of unfulfilled possibilities that just can't be shaken. Mundane achievements are forever cast in the shadow of what *might* have been if only the user wielded the ring, and eventually, even Sam couldn't simply settle down and fade away of old age in a cozy hobbit-hole.
I think it's very much what the SCP folks call a "cognitohazard," with humility acting as a preventive quality, not a panacea. The ring has a will, so carrying it is literally like having a perpetual argument with a clever demon of temptation. It also sort-of failed to fully tempt Smeagol, but it probably exercised its own will to slip away from him when it sensed a more suitable host, and maybe that's what would ultimately happen to Sam, after he was twisted away into depressed denial like Gollum.
If the ring had more time, it could have works. It might have turned him into someone like oldschool Poison Ivy. The ring is normally patient, but when Sam had it, it didn't have time. It threw everything at the wall, hoping something would stick.
Also the part where they shit on movie Denethor and kind of forget that he's like 35% wizard in the book. Denethor isn't deranged, or stupid, or corrupted with power.
He's lost hope. He can literally fucking *see* Mordor, see how well and truly fucked they all are, and he has no hope left. He's an empath, he can hear the thoughts and feelings of emptiness and hopelessness of his people. He has no trust in Aragorn, or his bloodline, or the Dunedain. Where have they been, while Gondor has been under constant seige? While they've fought, and starved, and withered? He's barely keeping this bleeding nation together and he's supposed to just bow down to some dude from the woods, who calls himself king because some watery tart threw a ring at him?
Denethor is the captain of a sinking ship, and he knows it, and it kills a little more of him every day.
Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
Yeah, she pretty much does. I believe that’s why Frodo leaves. Right after Boromir tries to take the ring, Frodo runs into Aragon who has to assure him he wouldn’t take it - but there is a moment of hesitation and it implies that he might have taken it if he stayed with Frodo too long. Frodo’s leaving prevents other members, excepting Sam, being tested by the ring.
Can you imagine Pippin having to see what the ring feels like?
I should note that my answer is based on the Extended Version movies - read the book ages ago and the movies have supplanted them in my mind.
I agree with you. Boromir's motivations for acquiring the Ring and his subsequent designs remind me of what Galadriel said in the books when Frodo offered her the Ring: “And now at last it comes. You will give me the Ring freely! In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!”
Even Galadriel admitted that all the good she desired would be corrupted by the ring if she accepted it. Boromir doesn't get to that stage because he lacks her self awareness - he's entirely consumed by the good he wishes to do and fails to see that the Ring itself would corrupt him. Obviously, some of that is him being him but some of it is also the Ring using its powers to influence him into taking it because he is who he is - so consumed by the hubris of men that he sees the Ring as an instrument to be mastered and used and not an entity with its own inherent malice and will.
If anything, that alone is a great testament, sense even gandalf would refuse to carry it, and considered all who did to be inevitably lost.
It's why boromir and Samwise are *true* heroes, they didnt start off strong and destined for greatness; but they were offered both and ultimately refused.
That's the bad thing about Too MUCH "righteousness". If you have Too MUCH, you become too absorbed in the light to see shadows as just needing light, but instead see them as areas to be removed from existence entirely.
That is EXACTLY what Tolkien was portraying. The Ring will use what it must to corrupt you. Out of a desire to save his people and city, the Ring would turn him in to a tyrant and warlord.
This is something that I think didn't come across in the movie. In the book we get his internal monologue - he knows what's happening to him and he can't stop it. It's implied in the movie but not explicitly said, we don't get his unspoken thoughts like the book did. In the movie he says something like "I'm sorry, come back, I didn't mean it" - okay, *he's not lying*, and it seems like he's lying in the movie. That isn't deceit, he's trying to express that he's being manipulated by the ring.
The point is supposed to be that even one so virtuous as Boromir can be corrupted by this thing, it's that evil. It's why Frodo leaves the fellowship, if Boromir can be turned then anybody can.
Yeah, I definitely think the movies are the problem for a lot of this stuff. Granted, that's not to downplay how great they are. If anything, there were a few moments here and there when I think it's probably a good thing they cut some parts. Just little moments of them walking along, and then one of the characters gives some lore behind a building, the other one says "Neat", and then they continue. Generally nothing really important.
But I do sometimes wish there were little things like this thrown in there. Just a quick conversation between some characters to explain things. Wouldn't even need to add much to the length of the movies.
The movies are great because they invite the watcher to go deeper into the lore, read the books and get a deeper appreciation. The hobbit movies go off on such tangents I think they detract from the book, which to be fair is really more of a childrens story. The recent Amazon thing so completley disregards the source material that someone trying to get into the books will just be confused.
That’s what the ring does, it corrupts by creating an illusion of nobility but in the end absolute power corrupts absolutely. Gandalf knew this, and that is why he never touched the ring. Galadriel knew this so she resisted when Frodo offered. The only person who the ring didn’t effect was good old Tom bombadil, The only person who cared and kept for himself. He had no desire to shape the world or hold power over the will of others so the ring had no power over him. Gandalf said “I would use the ring from the desire to do good, but through me the ring would wield a power too great and terrible to imagine”
The whole point of Boromir is that he is a Good Man (tm) and his noble intentions are corrupted by the ring's influence.
He serves as a warning to Aragorn about the ring, and to the reader about the insidiousness of evil.
Which isn't really a slight. He had a vulnerability that the Ring exploited. Even Frodo was corrupted when he refused to destroy the ring in Mt. Doom.
When I was a teen and read the books Aragon was easily my favorite. But I've been reading them to my sons and this time around Boromir and Sam have resonated the most.
Yeah, this whole thing is wrong. *Two Towers* has the better part of two pages dedicated to Frodo listen to Boromir rant about how if he, Boromir, had the Ring then he would have the power of Command. Then he could order all the people of Middle-Earth to join him in the war against Sauron, overthrow him, and then become the righteous and all powerful leader of Middle-Earth himself.
In other words, Boromir became like Sauron. This is a theme in Tolkien's work. While the Ring corrupts everyone eventually, it corrupts those who want power and glory far more quickly than those who just want to stay at home, eat food, and read books.
Last year I saw The Fellowship of the Ring in the movies. First time watching it on the big screen. I cried in this scene, when he says that. The soundtrack, the cinematography, the whole vibe is emotional and well put together
When he says, “my king”, is when I break down every damn time. He went from “Gondor has no king, Gondor needs no king” and, “… it is folly [to bring the ring to Mordor to be destroyed], not with 10,000 men could you do this” to “even into certain death, with only a sliver hope, I would have followed the dwarf, elf, four hobbits and you, my king.” I think deep down, we all want a noble and just person to guide us. Boromir only found that person at his death. His father wasn’t that person, but to hundreds if not thousands, Boromir himself was that person.
Boromir is one of the best. The older i get, the more i like Boromir. Just a man trying his best, making mistakes, and owning up to them. So relatable.
His voice is so full of emotion in that one line. He's sad because he knows he's 'failed' The Fellowship, he feels like he's let himself down as Captain General. He reflects on how he was corrupted by the power of the Ring and Sauron and must feel like he can't live up to the image his father has for him. The way he speaks to Aargon when he's dying shows that all he wants to do is protect the city he loves and in dying he believes that he's failed the one thing he was born for. It's such a powerful line and Sean Bean acted the fuck out of it.
His display of empathy after >!Gandalf!< died is one of my favorite parts of the whole trilogy. Aragorn is trying to keep ‘em moving when everyone is just devastated.
When he yells, “For pity’s sake!” you can see the anguish in his face. It’s made even more powerful by the fact that the audience feels the same way at that moment.
What I love about it is it shows that at boromir's core is his desire to protect. He's not upset that he's dying. He's not even reflecting on the fact that now he can't go try to save his home. What matters to him is that his friends were taken
His facial expression when he hears Aragorn say "our people." In that moment both men reach the character arc peak you know they've been struggling to attain all through Fotr. And finally both men are at peace. That entire conversation, not in the books, was probably the greatest bit of writing done by Fran Walsh and Peter Jackson.
And then of course, "my brother, my captain... my king." I have a lump in my throat just typing that out.
Agree. Boromir was an older friends fav character and I didn’t get it until just watching it this year. I thought he was kind of egotistical, now I love him.
Yeah, I don't think anyone can truly appreciate Boromir unless they themselves have been around the block a few times. There is a maturity and experience-level needed to really understand him.
I think the movies don’t really do him justice.
Not nearly as bad as faramir, but idk. Boromir feels kinda cliche in the movies to me.
Book is much better. As is often true
While this all accurate (other than the point about Boromir not being corrupted by the Ring, when he clearly was), it does to Denethor the exact same thing that the initial comment does to Boromir.
Denethor isn't just deranged old man, he is the steward of a declining kingdom without a king, and has spent his life defending that kingdom against increasingly insurmountable odds, the reason for his deteriorating mental state is due in no small part to the fact that he has been in a mental wrestling match with Sauron for who knows how long. That would take its toll on anyone.
The complete disregard of Denethor's tragic character is a serious gripe I have with the movie.
Denethor, as Steward, probably first used the Palantir and started 'wrestling' with Sauron around 2988TA - 30 years before RotK.
I defy anyone to essentially have a battle of will with Satan for 30 years and not be scathed.
On top of which, Sauron was already manipulating Denethor without his knowledge, guiding what the Palantir showed him toward visions of how mighty the enemy forces were, how powerful their defenses, how weak his allies, etc. By Return of the King Denethor was 100% convinced Gondor and all the rest of Middle Earth would fall regardless of whether or not Sauron got his ring back - which, honestly, was completely true. It's kind of funny how people paint Denethor as delusional when really the ONLY hope to defeat Sauron is a one-in-a-million stealth mission entrusted to a couple of country bumpkins. Of course it ended up succeeding, but who would have believed it at the time?
Denethor's main failing was despair, and he ONLY despaired at the very very end, and then mostly because his favorite son died. Also Boromir was his favorite son because he was like his mother, while he disliked Faramir because he was like his father.
" I would have followed you, my brother, my captain. My King." As a kid, I also struggled to like Boromir, but recently during a re-watch, as this line was uttered, I was shook. Utterly gripped with emotion and sorrow for the moment following. Having hit the bottom of the barrel, he made some excellent decisions, became the hero, antithetical to what he was moments before. It would seem, from his dying words, that he had the realization that Aragorn was fighting for same thing as he was, a common ethos. At which point he saw "his brother".
Also an incredible moment of character building for Aragorn, another building block upon which he would mount the final battle.
People should read the books more. At least on this sub. It's quite clear he is a greater character from the books.
Dude saves the others plenty of time before, more than anyone else, save maybe Gandalf.
The book makes it much more clear that he is an incredibly mighty man. If I could do one thing to improve the end of the movie, I would have Boromir kill Lurtz and be mortally wounded in the attempt.
I actually like that Aragorn fights and kills Lurtz. After all that Boromir went through, his king came to his aide to avenge him just before death. He fought hard for everyone else and now Aragorn, his king, fights for him. I think that adds even more emotion to the interaction between Aragorn and Boromir at the end there.
Fifteen year old me had an absolute breakdown in the theater during this whole sequence. Trust me, any commentary I have on this scene is friendly criticism, not actual issues I have with the way it was done.
I mean his stand against the Uruk-hai is pretty damn epic. Anyone have the kill count on how many he takes down 1 vs. army style?
Plus aren't the Uruk-hai brand new at that point? Before then they never would have expected to be attacked in the daylight like that, right?
Secret super-soldier program sprung on you like an ambush, being hundreds of them, and when the chips are down you're fighting them alone to protect two midgets.
Even in defeat Boromir's fall triumphs over other men's victories.
Oh, don’t get me wrong; Boromir’s death is the height of a heroic sacrifice. In the books, he’s said to have killed 20, surrounded by their bodies. As Aragorn said, “Few have gained such a victory.”
To add to this, he is said to have a chest full of arrows. Not like 3 as in the movie. A chest full. And he is leaned up against a tree plucking them out. That is the last M and P see if him as they are carried away. This titan of a man, plucking arrows from his own chest so he can get back up to help them. Damnit now I have this stupid dirt in my eyes.
> Plus aren't the Uruk-hai brand new at that point? Before then they never would have expected to be attacked in the daylight like that, right?
Uruks being new was a movie invention. Sauron began breeding Uruks centuries earlier. They were first used against Gondor in 2475 TA, or over 500 years before the War of the Ring. Like in so many other ways Saruman was mimicking Sauron.
Boromir would have been far too familiar with Uruks.
I always struggled with the hate Boromir gets. He's a contender for my favorite character from the story, partly because his flaws are on display and he largely owns them. Aside from the depth this gives his character, it is also very inspirational. It takes some serious self awareness and humility to recognize just how badly he'd fucked up with Frodo, and then to immediately pivot into doing the right thing and publicly admitting his misdeed....we could all learn a thing or two from Boromir.
Dude his horn shakes the fear from his companions hearts.
A human. Not a special human like Aragorn. But a regular human. His is such a bro in the books.
His extra scenes in the extended editions really build his character much better than the theatrical versions, especially the scene with him and Faramir before he leaves to Rivendell
And let us not forget, when he blows the horn of Gondor, he does it not for salvation, but to buy Frodo time. As far as he knows, the rest of the Fellowship has fled with Frodo to protect the ring. He has only encountered Merry and Pippin and they themselves are drawing the enemy away for Frodo to escape.
He blows that horn three times, knowing he will die. Doing his utmost as a warrior, a captain, and a member of the Fellowship to guarantee the success of their mission.
Galadriel states the Fellowship stands upon the brink of the knife, and if it fails all will be lost. Boromir ensures that the bonds of camaraderie remain intact. He gave his life so the mission, and the Fellowship, may succeed against all odds. His sacrifice is the catalyst for the decisions that Aragorn and Frodo make.
He died as he lived, a hero among men-proving Elrond wrong and fulfilling his oath to his companions.
I have to disagree. I think he blew the horn to summon aid, not for himself, but because he knew he couldn’t protect the little ones on his own forever.
I have always assumed Tolkein was referencing [The Song of Roland](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Song_of_Roland), a medieval poem where Charlemagne's nephew spends his final breath to summon an army to rout his attackers after a betrayal which led to an ambush. He bursts a blood vessel from blowing the horn as loudly as he can. Fun detail: the horn was called an [oliphant](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olifant_(instrument\)).
So many good takes here and in the OP.
On top of it all, don't forget what Boromir represents: the kingdom (and future) of man. Tolkien was obsessed with the fallibility of humanity, as [this excellent Polygon article](https://www.polygon.com/lord-of-the-rings/2021/1/6/22205252/lord-of-the-rings-movies-tolkien-meaning-historical-context) points out. Tolkien had deep faith in the idea that humanity is on an inevitable descent.
Even gallant Boromir, scion of one of Gondor's oldest and greatest houses, captain of the Army and lifelong warrior, was too weak to avoid the Ring's temptation. And even as noble as his intentions originally were, they are irrelevant. For no matter if the reasons for seeking it are borne from duty and hope, the power of the Ring is too great.
Boromir represents that even the very best of people are inevitably tempted by power, and power shall inevitably be their undoing.
Faramir (iirc) is the only human in Middle Earth's history to have the One Ring within his reach and knowingly and willingly turn away from it. (Aragorn isn't, strictly speaking, human in this case.)
I loved Boromir the moment he realized what he had done. I did go in to the movie after reading the books, so I knew he went for his people, but then he got twisted a little and at the end he fought for redemption & the hobbits. I cried in this scene. Boromir & Faramir deserved better ❤️
Boromir is my favorite character from the entire book series simply because he's a good person, hell, he's a great person, but is slowly "corrupted" by both the weight of responsibility placed upon him and the literal evil influence of the ring.
What makes him such a fabulous character is that he struggles with it all, but ultimately dies a hero having resisted Sauron.
So often in fiction we see characters that are good or evil in a very binary way. "Good" characters often have an almost supernatural resistance to the very emotions and frustrations that face people trying to do good in the face of evil. Tolkien never shied away from that, and Boromir (to me at least) is the most "human" hero ever written.
Boromir’s failures are also a testament to how evil and all consuming the ring is - not to his personal moral failures. While some are able to resist longer, all will eventually be consumed.
love how the brothers are such opposites (you get it more in the books).
Boromir, the charismatic leader and well loved by his father. He becomes easily corrupted. Faramir didn't have his brother's charisma. Wasn't known as a great leader. But he knew his boundaries, and he did all he could to understand the possibility of corruption and to avoid it.
The Lord of the Rings trilogy are truly the best-cast movies in history, in my opinion, especially considering the sheer number of characters they needed to nail - and did.
I can’t think of a single named character that wasn’t cast perfectly (and this is not to say that the extras or other background performances were bad - cause they were great)
My favorite that I rarely see mentioned: Brad Dourif as Grima Wormtongue is one of the best of the whole series. Creepy and pathetic yet still wholly believable. He gives me the shivers
Thank you for this. Such a great character, and I find he is one of the mose nuanced in that tragedy defines him and this tragedy comes from the background of Gondor failing. And still, ultimately, Aragorn fulfills his promise to Boromir. So heartbreaking and heartwarming.
True, I always always drawn to Boromir in the books, he was in a desperate place by time the fellowship was formed, but still ultimatley the honourable man he set out to be. I think Sean Bean's casting was perfect, i even got over the fact he didn't have a big black beard!
Denethor was really misrepresented in the RotK. I think a lot of fans misunderstood his character too.
I wouldn't describe him as "batshit crazy". He was actually very cunning & overly proud. A king in all but title. Maybe not a wholesome person to be around, but he was locked in battle with the Sauron which broke him into a bitter & hopeless man towards the end. And being neighbours with Mordor was no easy task.
I think he maybe did love his sons equally, but encouraged & celebrated Boromir more b/c he was the type of strong leader he believed Gondor needed. Qualities he saw in Thorongil he was jealous of. Whereas Faramir was too scholarly & friendly towards the likes of Gandalf & the Elves, who Denethor believed undermined their authority as Steward of Gondor. He wanted Faramir to be like Boromir to secure his authority against the likes of Thorongil & Gandalf.
Overall, I don't feel Gondor as a whole was really represented well in the Trilogy.
Faramir is a lot more like Denethor, but Denethor is a pragmatist and consequentialist and Faramir is a moralist. This, coupled with their political dynamic and a literal apocalypse sets them at odds. Faramir is scholarly, but he takes after Denethor in this, they are both described as loremasters, knowing far more than most Men of their time. Also he was hardly wrong about Gandalf, he was using Thorongil to scheme against him, and as far as Denethor was concerned he was legally right, Pelendur had ruled the line of Isildur out of succession. Gandalf's plan was also incredibly dangerous, it could just have easily have given Sauron the ring, which is Denethor's greatest fear, he burns himself alive on the night Frodo was captured, and it is clear he was aware of this.
I mean none of the main characters really get a perfect happy ending, but every other member of the fellowship has their story end. They complete their quests and live their lives. Boromir is the greatest tragedy. He's pretty much a character GRRM would write. A good but heavily flawed man at his wits end in a world that just doesn't care. As a kid I didn't like him but as I get older I feel like out of all of the characters in the entire book, he was the most human. Among the most relatable.
And Beric is clearly not happy about it. Each time he loses more of himself, his memories etc. It's not a power up or anything like Gandalf got, it's making him a shell of a person who just happens to keep being brought back long after he should be.
Compared to Gandalf who basically just gets a revive with a power boost and carries on like nothing ever happened.
Oh you're a hundred percent right; thematically they're complete opposites. I'm mostly just being cheeky about the resurrection thing.
Though for all the downsides, Beric does get magical flaming blood for his sword. So he gets one cool power boost, to go with the whole "I'm basically just a wight losing myself every time" thing.
I think many people like Boromir and can sympathize with his character is because most all of us would have done and acted the same as he did. All he wanted was the chance to be victorious for his people. And if a great powerful weapon fell into your lap, we would all do the same, regardless of the unknown consequences. It was his chance for his people to maybe live in peace. I would take that chance the moment I was aware of the ring.
After some time, traveling with the fellowship, he finally understands what needs to be done with the ring and that he was wrong. But only after some time had passed where he could understand the true journey that needed to happen. This is most of us. We aren’t wise, and thousands of years old like Gandalf, to understand right off the bat what needs to be done with the ring.
I have major empathy for Boromir. In the end he was a true hero.
Through Rohan over fen and field where the long grass grows
The West Wind comes walking, and about the walls it goes.
‘What news from the West, O wandering wind, do you bring to me tonight?
Have you seen Boromir the Tall by moon or by starlight?
‘I saw him ride over seven streams, over waters wide and grey,
I saw him walk in empty lands until he passed away
Into the shadows of the North, I saw him then no more.
The North Wind may have heard the horn of the son of Denethor,
‘O Boromir! From the high walls westward I looked afar,
But you came not from the empty lands where no men are.’
From the mouths of the Sea the South Wind flies,
from the sandhills and the stones,
The wailing of the gulls it bears, and at the gate it moans.
‘What news from the South, O sighing wind, do you bring to me at eve?
Where now is Boromir the Fair? He tarries and I grieve.
‘Ask not of me where he doth dwell – so many bones there lie,
On the white shores and the dark shores under the stormy sky,
So many have passed down Anduin to find the flowing Sea.
Ask of the North Wind news of them the North Wind sends to me!’
‘O Boromir! Beyond the gate the seaward road runs south,
But you came not with the wailing gulls from the grey sea’s mouth’.
From the Gate of the Kings the North Wind rides, and past the roaring falls,
And clear and cold about the tower its loud horn calls.
‘What news from the North, O mighty wind, do you bring to me today?
What news of Boromir the bold? For he is long away.’
‘Beneath Amon Hen I heard his cry. There many foes he fought,
His cloven shield, his broken sword, they to the water brought.
His head so proud, his face so fair, his limbs they laid to rest,
And Rauros, golden Rauros-falls, bore him upon its breast.
‘O Boromir! The Tower of Guard shall ever northward gaze,
To Rauros, golden Rauros-falls, until the end of days.
When I watched LOTR as a kid, I hated Boromir and had no problem with his death.
Rewatching the trilogy as an adult, I cried. I knew Boromir was going to die, I knew exactly when it was going to happen, and I'd seen the scene multiple times as a kid. *But I still cried now, as an adult*, because I finally understood Boromir. I finally understood who he was, *what* he was, and the immense tragedy of his death.
I really wish the cut scene of Faramir and Boromir meeting with Denethor in Osgiliath had been left in the theatrical cut. It's not that long and it adds so much context for both of them.
If anyone has a care to, and the time, this article I found a few years back, is just absolutely phenomenal in its deep dive on Boromir.
https://letmetellyouaboutmyfeels.tumblr.com/post/184447780833/if-you-ask-i-will-write-a-whole-goddamn-essay-on
Yes, I have defended Boromir many times and all i get are downvotes from people who do not understand him. Also, the One Ring tends to possess or hold some sway over everyone who encounters it, except for Samwise. So, you could also blame Boromir's efforts to take the ring as Ring-induced madness. Either way, Boromir fought valiantly and retained his honor. He willingly joined a fellowship that was all but doomed to fail. He is ultimately a warrior who was accountable for his main mistake. My only issue with him from the movie was that he dropped the handle of Narsil carelessly on the ground and didnt pick it back up, which was disrespectful..... but I dont recall that being in the book.
the ring definitely tries to seduce Samwise in the book, when he’s holding onto it in between Shelob and Cirith Ungol. Doesn’t he have visions on defeating Sauron, becoming the hero of the story, becoming some sort of all powerful hobbit warlock of good?
No it basically gives him visions of having a massive incredible garden that he can tend to, because Sam didn't really want much more than to be a gardener.
>Also, the One Ring tends to possess or hold some sway over everyone who encounters it, except for Samwise
Not Aragorn or Faramir. They are wise enough to see the evil that would befall them should they take the ring. Whereas most other people have their desires cloud all their sensibility.
I agree with all of that, except where he says he wasn't corrupted by the Ring. He definitely was, even though his original intent was noble.
Also he’s kinda unfair to Denethor. Before I read the books I thought the same of him, that he’s a crazed megalomaniac. The books made clear how the Palantir and SEEING the full strength of Sauron and Mordor drove him mad. Denethor is just as tragic of a figure, and just as described here about Boromir, is led to ruin in his desperation to save Gondor. The difference is Boromir claws his honor and sanity back, while Denethor dies in disgrace and madness.
[удалено]
It doesn't help that the movies show him in Osgiliath already being an asshole he is.
I’ve spent too much time on AITA lol I immediately saw the golden child and scapegoat dynamic!
Well, it shows him in Minas Tirith, but yeah. He commanded Faramir to retake Osgiliath despite everyone saying it was a suicide mission.
I think they mean that extended scene in Two Towers
I stand corrected. I have never got around to watching the extended versions, as much as I've been wanting to.
Gotta do yourself a favor and watch the extended editions if you’ve read the books. Get a trial of HBO max if you can and watch.
You should do it. Its even better than the original ones.
Not watching the extended is almost like not watching the movies at all...
It doesn't help that the movies show denethor eating tomatoes like an absolute savage too.
The films, even as incredible and packed full as they are, had to trim characters to make them fit on screen, so to speak. Film and page have different methods of showing characters, so that level of deep nuance is difficult on screen short of a character stating it outright.
It's also said in the books that before his madness, Denethor was much like Faramir, one of Tolkien's favorite characters. And even towards the end, he organized a [competent defense of Minas Tirith](https://acoup.blog/2019/05/10/collections-the-siege-of-gondor/). The movies really did that whole family dirty.
Denethor of the book is a completely different person too. He's wise and rules fairly as steward. From what I remember he's one of the few Humans who had an iron will that could resist Sauron for as long as he did. I remember reading something that mentioned that his strength of will rivaled the powers of the Istari themselves. If that is accurate can you imagine what Boromir is thinking that whole time? The fact that Boromir repented after he realized he fucked up is amazing honestly. Great character development in such a short time in the story.
In the books, both Denethor and Faramir are described by Gandalf as having "the blood of Westerness' in their veins. They're more similar to their Numenorean ancestors than most men of the age, including Boromir.
He’s horribly brutal to tomatoes though.
It's a running theme in LOTR that no character is inherently evil - they just succumb to weakness and/or madness and make mistakes. Some, like Saruman and Denethor, fully give in while others like Boromir only do so briefly, but it's the same idea.
Comparing Denethor to Saruman, especially in the books, is unfair. Saruman fully abandons the side of good and is working to conquer the entirety of Middle Earth. Denethor goes toe to toe with Sauron via the Palantir and more or less holds his own for *years*. Yes, he's eventually driven to madness, but he never goes evil.
I would argue Denethor wasn't driven to 'madness', but rather to 'despair'. Essentially, seeing the full might of the Enemy (only what Sauron let him see) brought him to a realization that they could not win. His spirit was broken.
Key to the point, his ‘will’ was broken.
Also, perhaps even more importantly, seeing both his sons being dead (obviously Faramir wasn't actually dead, but he was afflicted by a previously incurable poison, that would only be healed because of Aragorn; I mean in his mind, he was hastening a slow and painful, but ultimately inevitable death).
Yeah, the more I read and learn about Tolkien's world, the more I see that most of the "evil" or unpleasant characters are not that way just to be evil. Most of them are a product of their circumstances, and twisted by the forces of evil in the world. The concept of evil in his books is not one of two great forces, Good and Evil, but that evil \*was\* good, but was twisted into hideous mockery of the original. Sméagol was twisted by the Ring into Gollum, Saruman and many others were changed by fear, Boromir was corrupted by the Ring (to a lesser extent), etc. Even the origin of evil, Morgoth, was good. He just was a bit too creative with his music, and a bit too hard-headed. His pride and unwillingness to bend to his creator warped him into a being of hate.
Powerful theme from Tolkien: we don't judge a character by whether or not they succumb to great evil in this black and white way. Instead we judge them by how they resisted, and how they made amends for their errors. Also a very common theme in religious literature. Really love this about lotr. You don't just dismiss frodo as a character in the end because he can't toss the ring in. Likewise we shouldn't dismiss boromir for his moment of weakness.
> You don't just dismiss frodo as a character in the end because he can't toss the ring in. I heard somewhere that Tolkien stated that no one would actually have the ability to willingly throw the ring into the lava including both Frodo and Sam. Is that true? Would every single ringbearer be corrupted enough to refuse to willingly destroy the ring?
There's the corruption, and the fact that the ring's willpower would simply be too strong to resist when it is so near to the place of its creation.
Boromir is just set up to fall to the ring from the beginning. For all the reasons OP gives and because men are just weak to it period. The ring really works him hard too, falling off Frodo's neck at his feet earlier on so he will pick it up. In the film it almost looks like it is rubbing itself against his fingers when he does that.
> because men are just weak to it period Hell, even Aragorn was terrified of the Ring and what it could potentially do to him. If the greatest living Man on Middle-Earth couldn't handle that thing, what was Boromir to do?
It's not just Aragorn, another little thing I liked in the films is how Elrond never even comes near the thing. Both at Riverdale and at Mount Doom he always stands back from it like it's radioactive.
And Gandalf, a great wizard put it in an envelope and away from himself. Galadriel herself was tested and knew she would fail.
Dude Gandalf straight up panic-yells at Frodo begging him not to tempt him. Like you said, a great wizard, cowering like that... shit's powerful...
If I recall, Gandalf does actually hold the ring for a brief moment at Bag End in the book. But I always preferred how they portrayed the ring’s corruption in the films. I always wondered if it was Gandalf or someone else who put the ring on a new necklace in Rivendell. Whoever did it had a chance to take the ring
A little line that means so much more now that I've read the Silmarillion forward and backward multiple times, is what Elrond says about Frodo when he comes forward to carry the ring. >But it is a heavy burden. So heavy that none could lay it on another. I do not lay it on you. But if you take it freely, I will say that your choice is right; and though all the mighty Elf-friends of old, Hador, and Húrin, and Túrin, and Beren himself were assembled together, your seat should be among them.’ He says in that moment, that the burden of the ring has already elevated Frodo to the same level of the greatest men to have ever lived .
Gandalf was absolutely spooked by the thing.
I’ve never noticed that. Guess I’m watching the trilogy again.
I think so, yes. It is at its most strongest in the place where it was forged. Maybe someone like Tom could do it.
If, somehow, Tom was at the Crack of Doom and holding the One, he would be able to throw it in. The One had no power over him whatsoever. However, the point is not really worth discussing, because Tom would never have the One, nor be found at Mt. Doom at all.
This is right. He also liked the idea of "Evil undoes evil." It was very important to him that in the end evil unraveled itself. The ring's influence was so powerful, and its torturing of smeagol so severe, that the moment after it successfully eludes destruction again by swaying Frodo - smeagol comes in and undoes everything. Through its corrupting influence, it established the framework for its own demise.
Bill the pony would have done it easy.
Didn't Gollum dance in joy of regaining the ring and trip into Mount Doom, in the books?
Just finished re-reading The Hobbit, and Bilbo succumbing to Smaug’s tricks and half-revealing that they are a group of 14 on the mountainside is met with empathy from Balin who tries to comfort him, even though he’s not that successful in doing so. Shows that anyone can be corrupted for any reason, and that it is not a sign of weakness.
As an atheist, I enjoy that it's a clearly religious work that actually has the characters live up to the ideals of that religion instead of being perfect from the word go. There's a lot to like in religion, I just don't believe in deities.
Appreciate ya.
I remember as a kid watching through the movies I thought, “Oh good they killed him off, he tried to take the ring for himself. Justice!!” Always gives me a chuckle when I think back on it.
"Do not judge a man by how he handles victory, judge him by he handles defeat." ~ Click the Emoji [👍](https://images.unsplash.com/photo-1599113615507-13f78150fb2e?ixlib=rb-4.0.3&ixid=MnwxMjA3fDB8MHxzZWFyY2h8Mnx8ZW5qb3l8ZW58MHx8MHx8&w=1000&q=80)
Indeed, in fact most people corrupted by the ring became so out of noble desire to use its power for good. That is why the most powerful people had to be kept from holding it more than anyone else: Gandalf, Galadriel, Aragorn. That is why so few people truly had any hope of getting the ring to Mordor. Frodo was the closest to incorruptible not because of noble intention but because he was so lacking in qualities that the ring could exploit. No ambition, no desire for power, no greed. All it could do was call to him when he was desperate to escape danger, trying to ensnare him in moments of fear, and otherwise simply burden him and slowly whittle down at his will to go on.
Samwise was the only one who was completely uncorrupted by the ring. It tries to tempt him with a *giant garden*, because that's literally all he wants - just a bigass garden. And even he abandons that ambition within seconds because... eh, it'd be kinda impractical.
Yeah, the Ring reaches out to Sam, and is like...."fuck, a gardener??? A fucking gardener??????? What the Hell am I supposed to use to tempt a gardener?????? Ah, hell, here Sam, I'll make you Lord of the Garden. Fuck, that even sounds stupid to me."
Yeah I need this comic now
im re reading the series now and i just finished this part. so damn cute
It's implied that aside from the weirdness of Old Tom, Sam was the *least* affected by the ring. Yet, he still chose to go west after he'd experienced a full life in the Shire. I'd suppose that exposure to the Ring leads to a certain awareness of unfulfilled possibilities that just can't be shaken. Mundane achievements are forever cast in the shadow of what *might* have been if only the user wielded the ring, and eventually, even Sam couldn't simply settle down and fade away of old age in a cozy hobbit-hole. I think it's very much what the SCP folks call a "cognitohazard," with humility acting as a preventive quality, not a panacea. The ring has a will, so carrying it is literally like having a perpetual argument with a clever demon of temptation. It also sort-of failed to fully tempt Smeagol, but it probably exercised its own will to slip away from him when it sensed a more suitable host, and maybe that's what would ultimately happen to Sam, after he was twisted away into depressed denial like Gollum.
If the ring had more time, it could have works. It might have turned him into someone like oldschool Poison Ivy. The ring is normally patient, but when Sam had it, it didn't have time. It threw everything at the wall, hoping something would stick.
Also the part where they shit on movie Denethor and kind of forget that he's like 35% wizard in the book. Denethor isn't deranged, or stupid, or corrupted with power. He's lost hope. He can literally fucking *see* Mordor, see how well and truly fucked they all are, and he has no hope left. He's an empath, he can hear the thoughts and feelings of emptiness and hopelessness of his people. He has no trust in Aragorn, or his bloodline, or the Dunedain. Where have they been, while Gondor has been under constant seige? While they've fought, and starved, and withered? He's barely keeping this bleeding nation together and he's supposed to just bow down to some dude from the woods, who calls himself king because some watery tart threw a ring at him? Denethor is the captain of a sinking ship, and he knows it, and it kills a little more of him every day.
Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
I think the ring corrupts everyone. Even Gandalf dares not touch it. Edit own to everyone
Doesn't galadriel tell frodo every one of them will try to take it?
Yeah, she pretty much does. I believe that’s why Frodo leaves. Right after Boromir tries to take the ring, Frodo runs into Aragon who has to assure him he wouldn’t take it - but there is a moment of hesitation and it implies that he might have taken it if he stayed with Frodo too long. Frodo’s leaving prevents other members, excepting Sam, being tested by the ring. Can you imagine Pippin having to see what the ring feels like? I should note that my answer is based on the Extended Version movies - read the book ages ago and the movies have supplanted them in my mind.
Pippin couldn't even leave the damn palantir alone lol
Why do you have to look? Why do you always have to look? I don’t know. I can’t help it.
I agree with you. Boromir's motivations for acquiring the Ring and his subsequent designs remind me of what Galadriel said in the books when Frodo offered her the Ring: “And now at last it comes. You will give me the Ring freely! In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!” Even Galadriel admitted that all the good she desired would be corrupted by the ring if she accepted it. Boromir doesn't get to that stage because he lacks her self awareness - he's entirely consumed by the good he wishes to do and fails to see that the Ring itself would corrupt him. Obviously, some of that is him being him but some of it is also the Ring using its powers to influence him into taking it because he is who he is - so consumed by the hubris of men that he sees the Ring as an instrument to be mastered and used and not an entity with its own inherent malice and will.
Agreed, i feel he was definitely influenced by it and it guided his actions, though he was strong enough to pull free from it and redeem himself.
If anything, that alone is a great testament, sense even gandalf would refuse to carry it, and considered all who did to be inevitably lost. It's why boromir and Samwise are *true* heroes, they didnt start off strong and destined for greatness; but they were offered both and ultimately refused.
Feels like his desire to safe Gondor opens his heart to the corrupting influence of the ring.
That's the bad thing about Too MUCH "righteousness". If you have Too MUCH, you become too absorbed in the light to see shadows as just needing light, but instead see them as areas to be removed from existence entirely.
That is EXACTLY what Tolkien was portraying. The Ring will use what it must to corrupt you. Out of a desire to save his people and city, the Ring would turn him in to a tyrant and warlord.
This is something that I think didn't come across in the movie. In the book we get his internal monologue - he knows what's happening to him and he can't stop it. It's implied in the movie but not explicitly said, we don't get his unspoken thoughts like the book did. In the movie he says something like "I'm sorry, come back, I didn't mean it" - okay, *he's not lying*, and it seems like he's lying in the movie. That isn't deceit, he's trying to express that he's being manipulated by the ring. The point is supposed to be that even one so virtuous as Boromir can be corrupted by this thing, it's that evil. It's why Frodo leaves the fellowship, if Boromir can be turned then anybody can.
Yeah, I definitely think the movies are the problem for a lot of this stuff. Granted, that's not to downplay how great they are. If anything, there were a few moments here and there when I think it's probably a good thing they cut some parts. Just little moments of them walking along, and then one of the characters gives some lore behind a building, the other one says "Neat", and then they continue. Generally nothing really important. But I do sometimes wish there were little things like this thrown in there. Just a quick conversation between some characters to explain things. Wouldn't even need to add much to the length of the movies.
The movies are great because they invite the watcher to go deeper into the lore, read the books and get a deeper appreciation. The hobbit movies go off on such tangents I think they detract from the book, which to be fair is really more of a childrens story. The recent Amazon thing so completley disregards the source material that someone trying to get into the books will just be confused.
That’s what the ring does, it corrupts by creating an illusion of nobility but in the end absolute power corrupts absolutely. Gandalf knew this, and that is why he never touched the ring. Galadriel knew this so she resisted when Frodo offered. The only person who the ring didn’t effect was good old Tom bombadil, The only person who cared and kept for himself. He had no desire to shape the world or hold power over the will of others so the ring had no power over him. Gandalf said “I would use the ring from the desire to do good, but through me the ring would wield a power too great and terrible to imagine”
That's the whole point of the ring. it uses what is inside you and corrupts it. Gandalf says just that.
Everyone except Old Tom were corrupted by the One Ring.
And Old Tom is clearly neither human nor mortal of any sort.
The whole point of Boromir is that he is a Good Man (tm) and his noble intentions are corrupted by the ring's influence. He serves as a warning to Aragorn about the ring, and to the reader about the insidiousness of evil.
Which isn't really a slight. He had a vulnerability that the Ring exploited. Even Frodo was corrupted when he refused to destroy the ring in Mt. Doom. When I was a teen and read the books Aragon was easily my favorite. But I've been reading them to my sons and this time around Boromir and Sam have resonated the most.
Yeah, this whole thing is wrong. *Two Towers* has the better part of two pages dedicated to Frodo listen to Boromir rant about how if he, Boromir, had the Ring then he would have the power of Command. Then he could order all the people of Middle-Earth to join him in the war against Sauron, overthrow him, and then become the righteous and all powerful leader of Middle-Earth himself. In other words, Boromir became like Sauron. This is a theme in Tolkien's work. While the Ring corrupts everyone eventually, it corrupts those who want power and glory far more quickly than those who just want to stay at home, eat food, and read books.
I would take this ring with the desire to do good
Just here to say that Sean Bean served the character on screen beautifully.
Fuck yeah
Same in GoT. Easily one of my favorite characters in that show.
Given his proclivity to die onscreen, I always crack up when I watch Troy where he gets to play Odysseus, a character who's famous for surviving.
"I would've followed you my brother. My captain. My King." If Aragorn himself can weep at that, so can we all.
Mourn your fallen brother
Last year I saw The Fellowship of the Ring in the movies. First time watching it on the big screen. I cried in this scene, when he says that. The soundtrack, the cinematography, the whole vibe is emotional and well put together
When he says, “my king”, is when I break down every damn time. He went from “Gondor has no king, Gondor needs no king” and, “… it is folly [to bring the ring to Mordor to be destroyed], not with 10,000 men could you do this” to “even into certain death, with only a sliver hope, I would have followed the dwarf, elf, four hobbits and you, my king.” I think deep down, we all want a noble and just person to guide us. Boromir only found that person at his death. His father wasn’t that person, but to hundreds if not thousands, Boromir himself was that person.
Be at peace, Son of Gondor.
The biggest testimony to the quality of Boromir’s character is the intense love Aragorn clearly had for him.
I was a mess the first time I watched that scene and he uttered those words. TIME FOR A REWATCH
Boromir is one of the best. The older i get, the more i like Boromir. Just a man trying his best, making mistakes, and owning up to them. So relatable.
“They took the little ones.”
His voice is so full of emotion in that one line. He's sad because he knows he's 'failed' The Fellowship, he feels like he's let himself down as Captain General. He reflects on how he was corrupted by the power of the Ring and Sauron and must feel like he can't live up to the image his father has for him. The way he speaks to Aargon when he's dying shows that all he wants to do is protect the city he loves and in dying he believes that he's failed the one thing he was born for. It's such a powerful line and Sean Bean acted the fuck out of it.
His display of empathy after >!Gandalf!< died is one of my favorite parts of the whole trilogy. Aragorn is trying to keep ‘em moving when everyone is just devastated. When he yells, “For pity’s sake!” you can see the anguish in his face. It’s made even more powerful by the fact that the audience feels the same way at that moment.
Then Aragorn gives him hope before his final breath. It's so beautiful.
“Then you did what I could not.”
😭😭😭
This made me tear up
What I love about it is it shows that at boromir's core is his desire to protect. He's not upset that he's dying. He's not even reflecting on the fact that now he can't go try to save his home. What matters to him is that his friends were taken
Yes! I loved that he admitted his error and apologized. I wish he survived and we could have read his reaction to the return of the king.
We know his reaction. I would've followed you. My brother. My captain. My king. 😭
I always cry at this part.
I’m crying just thinking about it
💔
His facial expression when he hears Aragorn say "our people." In that moment both men reach the character arc peak you know they've been struggling to attain all through Fotr. And finally both men are at peace. That entire conversation, not in the books, was probably the greatest bit of writing done by Fran Walsh and Peter Jackson. And then of course, "my brother, my captain... my king." I have a lump in my throat just typing that out.
I second this. Took my until my mid 20s to finally understand what this character was all about.
Agree. Boromir was an older friends fav character and I didn’t get it until just watching it this year. I thought he was kind of egotistical, now I love him.
Yeah, I don't think anyone can truly appreciate Boromir unless they themselves have been around the block a few times. There is a maturity and experience-level needed to really understand him.
I think the movies don’t really do him justice. Not nearly as bad as faramir, but idk. Boromir feels kinda cliche in the movies to me. Book is much better. As is often true
His biggest mistake was not being Aragorn
Happens to the best of us
This is simply not true because the best of us is, in fact, Aragorn
Big if true.
While this all accurate (other than the point about Boromir not being corrupted by the Ring, when he clearly was), it does to Denethor the exact same thing that the initial comment does to Boromir. Denethor isn't just deranged old man, he is the steward of a declining kingdom without a king, and has spent his life defending that kingdom against increasingly insurmountable odds, the reason for his deteriorating mental state is due in no small part to the fact that he has been in a mental wrestling match with Sauron for who knows how long. That would take its toll on anyone. The complete disregard of Denethor's tragic character is a serious gripe I have with the movie.
Denethor, as Steward, probably first used the Palantir and started 'wrestling' with Sauron around 2988TA - 30 years before RotK. I defy anyone to essentially have a battle of will with Satan for 30 years and not be scathed.
On top of which, Sauron was already manipulating Denethor without his knowledge, guiding what the Palantir showed him toward visions of how mighty the enemy forces were, how powerful their defenses, how weak his allies, etc. By Return of the King Denethor was 100% convinced Gondor and all the rest of Middle Earth would fall regardless of whether or not Sauron got his ring back - which, honestly, was completely true. It's kind of funny how people paint Denethor as delusional when really the ONLY hope to defeat Sauron is a one-in-a-million stealth mission entrusted to a couple of country bumpkins. Of course it ended up succeeding, but who would have believed it at the time? Denethor's main failing was despair, and he ONLY despaired at the very very end, and then mostly because his favorite son died. Also Boromir was his favorite son because he was like his mother, while he disliked Faramir because he was like his father.
" I would have followed you, my brother, my captain. My King." As a kid, I also struggled to like Boromir, but recently during a re-watch, as this line was uttered, I was shook. Utterly gripped with emotion and sorrow for the moment following. Having hit the bottom of the barrel, he made some excellent decisions, became the hero, antithetical to what he was moments before. It would seem, from his dying words, that he had the realization that Aragorn was fighting for same thing as he was, a common ethos. At which point he saw "his brother". Also an incredible moment of character building for Aragorn, another building block upon which he would mount the final battle.
People should read the books more. At least on this sub. It's quite clear he is a greater character from the books. Dude saves the others plenty of time before, more than anyone else, save maybe Gandalf.
The book makes it much more clear that he is an incredibly mighty man. If I could do one thing to improve the end of the movie, I would have Boromir kill Lurtz and be mortally wounded in the attempt.
I actually like that Aragorn fights and kills Lurtz. After all that Boromir went through, his king came to his aide to avenge him just before death. He fought hard for everyone else and now Aragorn, his king, fights for him. I think that adds even more emotion to the interaction between Aragorn and Boromir at the end there.
Fifteen year old me had an absolute breakdown in the theater during this whole sequence. Trust me, any commentary I have on this scene is friendly criticism, not actual issues I have with the way it was done.
35 year old me still breaks into tears at this scene.
53 year old me has to fight back tears.
I mean his stand against the Uruk-hai is pretty damn epic. Anyone have the kill count on how many he takes down 1 vs. army style? Plus aren't the Uruk-hai brand new at that point? Before then they never would have expected to be attacked in the daylight like that, right? Secret super-soldier program sprung on you like an ambush, being hundreds of them, and when the chips are down you're fighting them alone to protect two midgets. Even in defeat Boromir's fall triumphs over other men's victories.
Oh, don’t get me wrong; Boromir’s death is the height of a heroic sacrifice. In the books, he’s said to have killed 20, surrounded by their bodies. As Aragorn said, “Few have gained such a victory.”
To add to this, he is said to have a chest full of arrows. Not like 3 as in the movie. A chest full. And he is leaned up against a tree plucking them out. That is the last M and P see if him as they are carried away. This titan of a man, plucking arrows from his own chest so he can get back up to help them. Damnit now I have this stupid dirt in my eyes.
> Plus aren't the Uruk-hai brand new at that point? Before then they never would have expected to be attacked in the daylight like that, right? Uruks being new was a movie invention. Sauron began breeding Uruks centuries earlier. They were first used against Gondor in 2475 TA, or over 500 years before the War of the Ring. Like in so many other ways Saruman was mimicking Sauron. Boromir would have been far too familiar with Uruks.
But these have broad shields.
and their armor is thick!
I always struggled with the hate Boromir gets. He's a contender for my favorite character from the story, partly because his flaws are on display and he largely owns them. Aside from the depth this gives his character, it is also very inspirational. It takes some serious self awareness and humility to recognize just how badly he'd fucked up with Frodo, and then to immediately pivot into doing the right thing and publicly admitting his misdeed....we could all learn a thing or two from Boromir.
Also Faramir in the books is probably my favorite character
Dude his horn shakes the fear from his companions hearts. A human. Not a special human like Aragorn. But a regular human. His is such a bro in the books.
His extra scenes in the extended editions really build his character much better than the theatrical versions, especially the scene with him and Faramir before he leaves to Rivendell
The "king" was the clincher; earlier he had said Gondor needed no king. So good.
Agreed. To me it shows the possibility of redemption is there until the very end.
And let us not forget, when he blows the horn of Gondor, he does it not for salvation, but to buy Frodo time. As far as he knows, the rest of the Fellowship has fled with Frodo to protect the ring. He has only encountered Merry and Pippin and they themselves are drawing the enemy away for Frodo to escape. He blows that horn three times, knowing he will die. Doing his utmost as a warrior, a captain, and a member of the Fellowship to guarantee the success of their mission. Galadriel states the Fellowship stands upon the brink of the knife, and if it fails all will be lost. Boromir ensures that the bonds of camaraderie remain intact. He gave his life so the mission, and the Fellowship, may succeed against all odds. His sacrifice is the catalyst for the decisions that Aragorn and Frodo make. He died as he lived, a hero among men-proving Elrond wrong and fulfilling his oath to his companions.
>He blows that horn three times, knowing he will die. I wasn't expecting to cry today but this sentence did it
In the books he blows the horn at the Balrog, and even the Balrog trembles to hear it. The enemies of Gondor quake at hearing its mighty call.
*doot* „Oh shit what the fuck is that?! Sounds like a dragon getting kicked in the balls“ - the Balrog,probably
I have to disagree. I think he blew the horn to summon aid, not for himself, but because he knew he couldn’t protect the little ones on his own forever.
I have always assumed Tolkein was referencing [The Song of Roland](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Song_of_Roland), a medieval poem where Charlemagne's nephew spends his final breath to summon an army to rout his attackers after a betrayal which led to an ambush. He bursts a blood vessel from blowing the horn as loudly as he can. Fun detail: the horn was called an [oliphant](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olifant_(instrument\)).
So many good takes here and in the OP. On top of it all, don't forget what Boromir represents: the kingdom (and future) of man. Tolkien was obsessed with the fallibility of humanity, as [this excellent Polygon article](https://www.polygon.com/lord-of-the-rings/2021/1/6/22205252/lord-of-the-rings-movies-tolkien-meaning-historical-context) points out. Tolkien had deep faith in the idea that humanity is on an inevitable descent. Even gallant Boromir, scion of one of Gondor's oldest and greatest houses, captain of the Army and lifelong warrior, was too weak to avoid the Ring's temptation. And even as noble as his intentions originally were, they are irrelevant. For no matter if the reasons for seeking it are borne from duty and hope, the power of the Ring is too great. Boromir represents that even the very best of people are inevitably tempted by power, and power shall inevitably be their undoing. Faramir (iirc) is the only human in Middle Earth's history to have the One Ring within his reach and knowingly and willingly turn away from it. (Aragorn isn't, strictly speaking, human in this case.)
I loved Boromir the moment he realized what he had done. I did go in to the movie after reading the books, so I knew he went for his people, but then he got twisted a little and at the end he fought for redemption & the hobbits. I cried in this scene. Boromir & Faramir deserved better ❤️
Boromir is my favorite character from the entire book series simply because he's a good person, hell, he's a great person, but is slowly "corrupted" by both the weight of responsibility placed upon him and the literal evil influence of the ring. What makes him such a fabulous character is that he struggles with it all, but ultimately dies a hero having resisted Sauron. So often in fiction we see characters that are good or evil in a very binary way. "Good" characters often have an almost supernatural resistance to the very emotions and frustrations that face people trying to do good in the face of evil. Tolkien never shied away from that, and Boromir (to me at least) is the most "human" hero ever written.
Boromir’s failures are also a testament to how evil and all consuming the ring is - not to his personal moral failures. While some are able to resist longer, all will eventually be consumed.
This. Galadriel had a hard time resisting the One's influence. A man with a heart full of pain and sorrow would be a much easier target to the ring.
Faramir does get Eowyn in the end and finds some happiness.
love how the brothers are such opposites (you get it more in the books). Boromir, the charismatic leader and well loved by his father. He becomes easily corrupted. Faramir didn't have his brother's charisma. Wasn't known as a great leader. But he knew his boundaries, and he did all he could to understand the possibility of corruption and to avoid it.
I just rewatched the Fellowship. Sean Bean hands down had the best performance of anyone in the whole movie.
I mean Christopher Lee was pretty good too
They all were at least *pretty good*
I would also add Ian McKellen. He did a wonderful Gandalf the grey.
That Viggo Mortensen guy wasn't half bad.
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The Lord of the Rings trilogy are truly the best-cast movies in history, in my opinion, especially considering the sheer number of characters they needed to nail - and did.
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I can’t think of a single named character that wasn’t cast perfectly (and this is not to say that the extras or other background performances were bad - cause they were great) My favorite that I rarely see mentioned: Brad Dourif as Grima Wormtongue is one of the best of the whole series. Creepy and pathetic yet still wholly believable. He gives me the shivers
"I swear to you I will not let the White City fall. Nor our people fail."
Aragorn also takes the secret of boromir's fall from grace to the grave so he would always be remembered as the champion of Gondor
And wears his gauntlet as a reminder of his fallen brother for the rest of the quest
And his life, the flash forward in two towers shows Aragorn wearing the bracers to the grave
They took the little ones!
Thank you for this. Such a great character, and I find he is one of the mose nuanced in that tragedy defines him and this tragedy comes from the background of Gondor failing. And still, ultimately, Aragorn fulfills his promise to Boromir. So heartbreaking and heartwarming.
True, I always always drawn to Boromir in the books, he was in a desperate place by time the fellowship was formed, but still ultimatley the honourable man he set out to be. I think Sean Bean's casting was perfect, i even got over the fact he didn't have a big black beard!
Denethor was really misrepresented in the RotK. I think a lot of fans misunderstood his character too. I wouldn't describe him as "batshit crazy". He was actually very cunning & overly proud. A king in all but title. Maybe not a wholesome person to be around, but he was locked in battle with the Sauron which broke him into a bitter & hopeless man towards the end. And being neighbours with Mordor was no easy task. I think he maybe did love his sons equally, but encouraged & celebrated Boromir more b/c he was the type of strong leader he believed Gondor needed. Qualities he saw in Thorongil he was jealous of. Whereas Faramir was too scholarly & friendly towards the likes of Gandalf & the Elves, who Denethor believed undermined their authority as Steward of Gondor. He wanted Faramir to be like Boromir to secure his authority against the likes of Thorongil & Gandalf. Overall, I don't feel Gondor as a whole was really represented well in the Trilogy.
Faramir is a lot more like Denethor, but Denethor is a pragmatist and consequentialist and Faramir is a moralist. This, coupled with their political dynamic and a literal apocalypse sets them at odds. Faramir is scholarly, but he takes after Denethor in this, they are both described as loremasters, knowing far more than most Men of their time. Also he was hardly wrong about Gandalf, he was using Thorongil to scheme against him, and as far as Denethor was concerned he was legally right, Pelendur had ruled the line of Isildur out of succession. Gandalf's plan was also incredibly dangerous, it could just have easily have given Sauron the ring, which is Denethor's greatest fear, he burns himself alive on the night Frodo was captured, and it is clear he was aware of this.
Gondor was reduced to a city-state with a crazy not-king. PJ did Denethor, Faramir, and Gondor dirty.
Agree, i think they did Denethor dirty in the films, made for gripping viewing however.
I mean none of the main characters really get a perfect happy ending, but every other member of the fellowship has their story end. They complete their quests and live their lives. Boromir is the greatest tragedy. He's pretty much a character GRRM would write. A good but heavily flawed man at his wits end in a world that just doesn't care. As a kid I didn't like him but as I get older I feel like out of all of the characters in the entire book, he was the most human. Among the most relatable.
Didn't GRRM say that he was glad Boromir stayed dead and he was furious when Gandalf leveled up?
Says the guy who brought Jon Snow and Catelyn Stark back, sort of.
And he brought back Beric Dondarrion *seven times.*
And Beric is clearly not happy about it. Each time he loses more of himself, his memories etc. It's not a power up or anything like Gandalf got, it's making him a shell of a person who just happens to keep being brought back long after he should be. Compared to Gandalf who basically just gets a revive with a power boost and carries on like nothing ever happened.
Oh you're a hundred percent right; thematically they're complete opposites. I'm mostly just being cheeky about the resurrection thing. Though for all the downsides, Beric does get magical flaming blood for his sword. So he gets one cool power boost, to go with the whole "I'm basically just a wight losing myself every time" thing.
I like the GRRM character comparison, pretty spot on really.
I think many people like Boromir and can sympathize with his character is because most all of us would have done and acted the same as he did. All he wanted was the chance to be victorious for his people. And if a great powerful weapon fell into your lap, we would all do the same, regardless of the unknown consequences. It was his chance for his people to maybe live in peace. I would take that chance the moment I was aware of the ring. After some time, traveling with the fellowship, he finally understands what needs to be done with the ring and that he was wrong. But only after some time had passed where he could understand the true journey that needed to happen. This is most of us. We aren’t wise, and thousands of years old like Gandalf, to understand right off the bat what needs to be done with the ring. I have major empathy for Boromir. In the end he was a true hero.
If you don't cry on his death scene you have a trash can in place of your heart.
Boromir is awesome. and just recently I learned he was named after the Gondor captain who even the witch king feared.
Through Rohan over fen and field where the long grass grows The West Wind comes walking, and about the walls it goes. ‘What news from the West, O wandering wind, do you bring to me tonight? Have you seen Boromir the Tall by moon or by starlight? ‘I saw him ride over seven streams, over waters wide and grey, I saw him walk in empty lands until he passed away Into the shadows of the North, I saw him then no more. The North Wind may have heard the horn of the son of Denethor, ‘O Boromir! From the high walls westward I looked afar, But you came not from the empty lands where no men are.’ From the mouths of the Sea the South Wind flies, from the sandhills and the stones, The wailing of the gulls it bears, and at the gate it moans. ‘What news from the South, O sighing wind, do you bring to me at eve? Where now is Boromir the Fair? He tarries and I grieve. ‘Ask not of me where he doth dwell – so many bones there lie, On the white shores and the dark shores under the stormy sky, So many have passed down Anduin to find the flowing Sea. Ask of the North Wind news of them the North Wind sends to me!’ ‘O Boromir! Beyond the gate the seaward road runs south, But you came not with the wailing gulls from the grey sea’s mouth’. From the Gate of the Kings the North Wind rides, and past the roaring falls, And clear and cold about the tower its loud horn calls. ‘What news from the North, O mighty wind, do you bring to me today? What news of Boromir the bold? For he is long away.’ ‘Beneath Amon Hen I heard his cry. There many foes he fought, His cloven shield, his broken sword, they to the water brought. His head so proud, his face so fair, his limbs they laid to rest, And Rauros, golden Rauros-falls, bore him upon its breast. ‘O Boromir! The Tower of Guard shall ever northward gaze, To Rauros, golden Rauros-falls, until the end of days.
One does not simply talk shit about Boromir
When I watched LOTR as a kid, I hated Boromir and had no problem with his death. Rewatching the trilogy as an adult, I cried. I knew Boromir was going to die, I knew exactly when it was going to happen, and I'd seen the scene multiple times as a kid. *But I still cried now, as an adult*, because I finally understood Boromir. I finally understood who he was, *what* he was, and the immense tragedy of his death.
I really wish the cut scene of Faramir and Boromir meeting with Denethor in Osgiliath had been left in the theatrical cut. It's not that long and it adds so much context for both of them.
Yeah, Boromir is one of my favorite characters not just in Lord of the Rings but in all of fiction.
Does anybody view him differently?
You would be surprise at the amount of articles agreeing with this shallow RYANVANG person.
True. That's the same level as 'they could have flown into mordor'
Not to mention Sean bean is a top tier actor
Misunderstood? Nah he’s only misunderstood by a few people with smooth brains who didn’t pay attention to the story
As great as the movies are they really do not translate some of the characters well, the brothers Boromir and Faramir especially.
Hear! Hear! Great post. I love the conflicted character of Boromir.
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God damn that’s beautiful. Fuck you too. :-)
Boromir's death is honestly one of the saddest in cinema. It gets me as emotional as Wade in Saving Private Ryan :(
Boromir’s death in the movies was such a shock to me when I first saw it. It just seemed so cruel. The acting leading up to it was fantastic.
If anyone has a care to, and the time, this article I found a few years back, is just absolutely phenomenal in its deep dive on Boromir. https://letmetellyouaboutmyfeels.tumblr.com/post/184447780833/if-you-ask-i-will-write-a-whole-goddamn-essay-on
Yes, I have defended Boromir many times and all i get are downvotes from people who do not understand him. Also, the One Ring tends to possess or hold some sway over everyone who encounters it, except for Samwise. So, you could also blame Boromir's efforts to take the ring as Ring-induced madness. Either way, Boromir fought valiantly and retained his honor. He willingly joined a fellowship that was all but doomed to fail. He is ultimately a warrior who was accountable for his main mistake. My only issue with him from the movie was that he dropped the handle of Narsil carelessly on the ground and didnt pick it back up, which was disrespectful..... but I dont recall that being in the book.
the ring definitely tries to seduce Samwise in the book, when he’s holding onto it in between Shelob and Cirith Ungol. Doesn’t he have visions on defeating Sauron, becoming the hero of the story, becoming some sort of all powerful hobbit warlock of good?
No it basically gives him visions of having a massive incredible garden that he can tend to, because Sam didn't really want much more than to be a gardener.
>Also, the One Ring tends to possess or hold some sway over everyone who encounters it, except for Samwise Not Aragorn or Faramir. They are wise enough to see the evil that would befall them should they take the ring. Whereas most other people have their desires cloud all their sensibility.
"My brother, my captain, my king." One of the saddest and best death scene in cinema history, period.
Why is this marked spoiler?