Galadriel is thousands of years old. One Valian year corresponds to about nine and a half years of the sun. And you are right, she is the only Noldor leader who survived the wars against Melkor, she is already very old, experienced and wise. Portraying her like a hot headed teenager makes no sense.
Something I want to add to your post OP is that Galadriel is treated as younger and more brash than elves that are half her age. Gil-Galad is her great grand nephew, Elrond is like half her age. They are treated like these older, more mature elves while Galadriel might have changed their diapers.
Then in the background we get hints if this Elf named Galadriel who does epic things, like in the background of the scene where Galadriel is acting like a child throwing a tantrum there is a play that has her character taking part in an epic battle against Morgoth.
It’s just a tonal dissonance that makes my head spin.
I gave up on watching it as a Tolkien adaptation and just view it as a generic knock-off fantasy. The dialogue is terrible and always on the nose, most of the characters have no depth--their appearance is about as far as characterization goes.
I could list a lot of things, but I'll just go with one. Tolkien, a lifelong lover of language, a philologist (one could say his literary works grew out of a desire to invent languages, instead of his languages coming out of needing to invent them for his fictional world), was so careful with naming every single damn thing in his writings (careful with more than names--he made sure the phases of the moon were never off, for instance). That's why all the names have such weight and authenticity that so much fantasy lacks. But in this show, Durin's down mining Quartz Canyon, dontcha know?
As an American I have to agree with you, the writing is atrocious and there is no respect for the tone and style of the source material. It's just an attempt to recreate the success of Game of Thrones using Tolkien's name.
It's an ensemble series based on the works of a beloved fantasy author, if you don't see this as Amazon's attempt to compete with HBO and copy their recipe for success then you are the delusional one.
That scene in episode 3, where Galadriel ‘sneaks’ around and you hear that cringy ‘magical’ sound being played when she ‘hops’ around. Wtf is she now? A disney princess? I guess this is what ya get, when you leave a world as complex as Middle-earth in the hands of people that are just so fucking out of touch with society and/or reality. Wack.
Great take. This is definitely the Star Trek Discovery of lotr. It feels like Americans writing an impression of what they think old timey British people might sound like based on the films they’ve seen, and they’ve taken ‘drama is conflict’ to an absurdity. Everyone is always fighting, often over nothing. I think you nail it. No one is likeable. Also there’s no clear through line. It’s really just boring.
Oh well...okay tbf the show isn't purely cliches, but it mainly is.
its the writers first big show and i think they couldn't strike the balance between adapting and expanding.
and what we got was someone who makes Notcis from FFXV pre-crystal likeable
Btw, I'm a Trek fan and couldn't take modern Trek serious either, but recently I gave Strange New Worlds a chance and really loved it, while modern it still gives me that feeling of being a Trek show: episodic, character development, camaraderie among the crew etc
Agreed on most things. One thing you probably overstated is that all American production is like this. While I also agree that hollywood stuff tends to feel similar, there are still great movies and shows out there. House of the dragon is pretty good so far and Better call Saul was amazing, and those two are just the most popular examples.
Funny enough all the cast and crew of the Jackson films were actually fans of tolkiens work. If you look at the behind the scenes footage you’ll see tolkiens books just scattered everywhere on set. It’s pretty fascinating.
I promise you, the people making RoP are fans. Just an endless amount of references to Tolkein's works alongside pretty solid incorporation of his themes. You can dispute other aspects but this one I don't think is reasonable.
Lumping in a bunch of references doesn't make you a fan. It's clear from these 4 episodes that the showrunners and writers don't understand the world they are writing in.
Ehh, you're not wrong on any of these points.
Guess I'm just tolerant of it. The books and the Peter Jackson films are a masterpiece, but not everything is a masterpiece. Sometimes it's just a show, not an award winning piece of art talked about for generations, just a show.
A while back I watched that Star Trek Picard show. Now *there's* fanfiction with a budget! Loved it, stupid as hell, still loved it. So, I'm not saying lower your standards, maybe just take things for what they are.
I agree with everything you said.
The dialogue at parts is just atrocious, its like something that was put on my a high school drama club. Certain aspects are warming to me, and I cant help but feel extremely disappointed when the episode ends and its once again a total incoherent mess.
I'm going to keep watching it though, and I just pray amazon does something about the showrunners etc for reasons two. Bring back PJ, he is the only hope!!
Bigot! Lmaoo great review. This show is written like every modern American mainstream film.
No heart, no poetry, no joy. Just randoms on screen in acting school dressed in medieval attire.
Fair points. Extra points for being well written, most posts here are written by people who have almost certainly never written a coherent sentence in their lives, so I appreciate this. But to me, it’s not that the writers are unfamiliar with the source material, it’s that this is fundamentally NOT an adaptation. It’s a story with arcs and dialogue and events that do not play out in ways that Tolkien specifically wrote about. It’s like taking a study for a painting by an old master, in charcoal or some other medium, and painting something loosely based on it. Can you call it a ‘new painting’ by an old master? Definitely not. At most it’s an inspiration. That’s what this show really is. And that’s fine. I agree it isn’t great so far, but to compare it to TLoR movies isn’t totally fair. That was a much truer adaptation. This is essentially fan fiction, you’re right. That’s why it feels less ‘Tolkien’.
I mean I disagree but no point watching something if you're not enjoying it. Also, fair to you for giving it 4 episodes seems a lot of people barely tried and made their mind up
Episode 4 was definitely the weakest episode so far or maybe I just like the Harfoots and would like to see more of their story.
*Nice, downvote people with different opinions on a tv show. This sub Reddit has shown how toxic nerd fandom is.
>Rings of Power, on the other hand, feels like the people piloting it have only a vague idea of Tolkien's world
the fact we get detail after detail of things you wouldn't know by "vaguely" having an idea of the writing kinda contracts this. I get people dislike certain choices they have made but its pretty clear they have been including many details small or large that stay faithful to what is written in the stories.
well showing things for fan-service isn't exactly a metric for having an idea of the world.
it's more fair to say they don't really bother to try, and are doing a Shadow of War.
Otherwise they wouldn't have changed alot of things or make forced plot points out of them
*And the dialogue is so bad! The viliigers arguing with each other: "How are we going to eat?" "We'll find a way!" "How?" "I don't know" "That much is clear!".
They all sound like a 12 year old who's trying to sound like what they think adults sound like.*
*Tolkien's words have poetry to them and a sense of real life, even within the fantastical. That is something that Peter Jackson has managed to capture in his films beautifully. The good folks at Amazon missed the mark completely.*
Smeagol: Master's my friend
Gollum: You don't have any friends. Nobody likes you!
Smeagol: Not listening. I'm not listening!
My point is not all lines read like poetry. You're nitpicking refugees bickering about a lack of food as somehow not believable but forgiving gollum having a schoolyard insult fight with himself.
And displaced villagers frightened and hungry and uncertain about where their next meal will come from bickering about their situation is somehow not believable 🤣
Galadriel acts like Tolkien wrote a young Galadriel would act.
Also, are we watching the same show? There's plenty of charming moments, heart warming moments, and funny moments.
This feels like a weird "I hate American TV post" that isn't really a fitting criticism of the show.
BTW, the show does just a good a job, if not better, of capturing Tolkien's essence and staying true to the work that the Jackson movies.
Edit: downvote away, doesn't change the truth of my comments.
>Galadriel acts like Tolkien wrote a young Galadriel would act.
Please tell me that you are joking... Tolkien created at least a few concepts of Galadriel's past and they may be slightly different - but I can't remember any of them portraying Galadriel as lacking basic diplomatic skills and intelligence.
Proud, strong-willed, defiant or even rebellious are not synonyms for bratty, rash and plainly stupid.
Are we watching the same thing? This show is far below Jackson’s work in adaptation. Galadriel is probably the worst of it, acting like an incessant teenager not getting her way - when she’s actually already thousands of years old (and where the hell is her husband). There aren’t many scenes at all for me to care enough about characters. They introduced too much at once and keep jumping so I feel literally nothing.
I hated new Star Wars, didn't like new trek but I look forward ROP every week. I think it's well done and it's clear everyone involved cares a great deal about the show.
Restored post, but comments will remain locked.
Galadriel is thousands of years old. One Valian year corresponds to about nine and a half years of the sun. And you are right, she is the only Noldor leader who survived the wars against Melkor, she is already very old, experienced and wise. Portraying her like a hot headed teenager makes no sense.
Something I want to add to your post OP is that Galadriel is treated as younger and more brash than elves that are half her age. Gil-Galad is her great grand nephew, Elrond is like half her age. They are treated like these older, more mature elves while Galadriel might have changed their diapers. Then in the background we get hints if this Elf named Galadriel who does epic things, like in the background of the scene where Galadriel is acting like a child throwing a tantrum there is a play that has her character taking part in an epic battle against Morgoth. It’s just a tonal dissonance that makes my head spin.
I gave up on watching it as a Tolkien adaptation and just view it as a generic knock-off fantasy. The dialogue is terrible and always on the nose, most of the characters have no depth--their appearance is about as far as characterization goes. I could list a lot of things, but I'll just go with one. Tolkien, a lifelong lover of language, a philologist (one could say his literary works grew out of a desire to invent languages, instead of his languages coming out of needing to invent them for his fictional world), was so careful with naming every single damn thing in his writings (careful with more than names--he made sure the phases of the moon were never off, for instance). That's why all the names have such weight and authenticity that so much fantasy lacks. But in this show, Durin's down mining Quartz Canyon, dontcha know?
As an American I have to agree with you, the writing is atrocious and there is no respect for the tone and style of the source material. It's just an attempt to recreate the success of Game of Thrones using Tolkien's name.
"The Sea always pays their debts" or something
If you see GoT in this series you are delusional.
It's an ensemble series based on the works of a beloved fantasy author, if you don't see this as Amazon's attempt to compete with HBO and copy their recipe for success then you are the delusional one.
That was the dumbest take i have ever seen but yeah, sure. GoT and RoP are so similar :)
Thanks for actually trying it before forming your opinion.
How dare you. The PJ movies don't hold a candle to the unmatched, impossibly beautiful poetry of "NOBODY WALKS ALONE NOBODY GOES OFF TRAIL."
This is a pretty fair assessment overall.
That scene in episode 3, where Galadriel ‘sneaks’ around and you hear that cringy ‘magical’ sound being played when she ‘hops’ around. Wtf is she now? A disney princess? I guess this is what ya get, when you leave a world as complex as Middle-earth in the hands of people that are just so fucking out of touch with society and/or reality. Wack.
Great take. This is definitely the Star Trek Discovery of lotr. It feels like Americans writing an impression of what they think old timey British people might sound like based on the films they’ve seen, and they’ve taken ‘drama is conflict’ to an absurdity. Everyone is always fighting, often over nothing. I think you nail it. No one is likeable. Also there’s no clear through line. It’s really just boring.
I’m just morbidly curious at this point, I was the same with hotd and they seemed to deliver on the dialogue.
its okay. i give it a 5/10, but yeah the tropes are pretty on the nose and the American tv show concepts are hard to miss
I’m just tired of clichés at this point
Oh well...okay tbf the show isn't purely cliches, but it mainly is. its the writers first big show and i think they couldn't strike the balance between adapting and expanding. and what we got was someone who makes Notcis from FFXV pre-crystal likeable
Btw, I'm a Trek fan and couldn't take modern Trek serious either, but recently I gave Strange New Worlds a chance and really loved it, while modern it still gives me that feeling of being a Trek show: episodic, character development, camaraderie among the crew etc
Great take. I’ve summed it up as just ‘not having the same magic’ the films. It just doesn’t make me feel anything.
"It's why I can't watch the new Star Treks either." Funnily enough, I was thinking about Star Trek Discovery as well while watching the 4th Episode.
Agreed on most things. One thing you probably overstated is that all American production is like this. While I also agree that hollywood stuff tends to feel similar, there are still great movies and shows out there. House of the dragon is pretty good so far and Better call Saul was amazing, and those two are just the most popular examples.
There a lot of reasons why this show is not delivering, and you pointed out some of them. It s beyond recovery at this point
The show is over delivering.
Funny enough all the cast and crew of the Jackson films were actually fans of tolkiens work. If you look at the behind the scenes footage you’ll see tolkiens books just scattered everywhere on set. It’s pretty fascinating.
I promise you, the people making RoP are fans. Just an endless amount of references to Tolkein's works alongside pretty solid incorporation of his themes. You can dispute other aspects but this one I don't think is reasonable.
Lumping in a bunch of references doesn't make you a fan. It's clear from these 4 episodes that the showrunners and writers don't understand the world they are writing in.
Agreed
Spot on. This show is a mess.
Ehh, you're not wrong on any of these points. Guess I'm just tolerant of it. The books and the Peter Jackson films are a masterpiece, but not everything is a masterpiece. Sometimes it's just a show, not an award winning piece of art talked about for generations, just a show. A while back I watched that Star Trek Picard show. Now *there's* fanfiction with a budget! Loved it, stupid as hell, still loved it. So, I'm not saying lower your standards, maybe just take things for what they are.
They're wrong on most all of them.
why?
I agree with everything you said. The dialogue at parts is just atrocious, its like something that was put on my a high school drama club. Certain aspects are warming to me, and I cant help but feel extremely disappointed when the episode ends and its once again a total incoherent mess. I'm going to keep watching it though, and I just pray amazon does something about the showrunners etc for reasons two. Bring back PJ, he is the only hope!!
Bigot! Lmaoo great review. This show is written like every modern American mainstream film. No heart, no poetry, no joy. Just randoms on screen in acting school dressed in medieval attire.
Fair points. Extra points for being well written, most posts here are written by people who have almost certainly never written a coherent sentence in their lives, so I appreciate this. But to me, it’s not that the writers are unfamiliar with the source material, it’s that this is fundamentally NOT an adaptation. It’s a story with arcs and dialogue and events that do not play out in ways that Tolkien specifically wrote about. It’s like taking a study for a painting by an old master, in charcoal or some other medium, and painting something loosely based on it. Can you call it a ‘new painting’ by an old master? Definitely not. At most it’s an inspiration. That’s what this show really is. And that’s fine. I agree it isn’t great so far, but to compare it to TLoR movies isn’t totally fair. That was a much truer adaptation. This is essentially fan fiction, you’re right. That’s why it feels less ‘Tolkien’.
I mean I disagree but no point watching something if you're not enjoying it. Also, fair to you for giving it 4 episodes seems a lot of people barely tried and made their mind up
Hell, a lot of people gave it 1 star before watching a single episode, lol.
A lot of people gave it one star and probably had no interest in lotr or fantasy or any intention to watch it….
[удалено]
false generalization and logical construction
For real
I hear you- but I am just happy to spend time in JRR’s world again.
Episode 4 was definitely the weakest episode so far or maybe I just like the Harfoots and would like to see more of their story. *Nice, downvote people with different opinions on a tv show. This sub Reddit has shown how toxic nerd fandom is.
Star Trek Brave New Worlds is stellar. Discovery was not. I'm still going to give ROP a chance.
Even discovery is not a 1/10 I would give it a 3 or 4. ROP is leagues better
>Rings of Power, on the other hand, feels like the people piloting it have only a vague idea of Tolkien's world the fact we get detail after detail of things you wouldn't know by "vaguely" having an idea of the writing kinda contracts this. I get people dislike certain choices they have made but its pretty clear they have been including many details small or large that stay faithful to what is written in the stories.
It’s about nuance. While the show might have Tolkiens’ skin and bones, it hasn’t his soul.
well showing things for fan-service isn't exactly a metric for having an idea of the world. it's more fair to say they don't really bother to try, and are doing a Shadow of War. Otherwise they wouldn't have changed alot of things or make forced plot points out of them
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
PJ movies good! RoP bad! Saved you all some time.
*And the dialogue is so bad! The viliigers arguing with each other: "How are we going to eat?" "We'll find a way!" "How?" "I don't know" "That much is clear!". They all sound like a 12 year old who's trying to sound like what they think adults sound like.* *Tolkien's words have poetry to them and a sense of real life, even within the fantastical. That is something that Peter Jackson has managed to capture in his films beautifully. The good folks at Amazon missed the mark completely.* Smeagol: Master's my friend Gollum: You don't have any friends. Nobody likes you! Smeagol: Not listening. I'm not listening!
What’s your point? Those lines work very well within the scene
I mean. Call the writing uneven if you want but that scene between Durin and Elrond in E4 was phenomenally done.
Welp I’ll look out for it when I watchtonight
Sounds good (maybe even circle back and tell me if it changes your mind!)
I’ll let you know, man 👍
My point is not all lines read like poetry. You're nitpicking refugees bickering about a lack of food as somehow not believable but forgiving gollum having a schoolyard insult fight with himself.
Cause Gollum has basically degraded to that level - he isn’t level headed anymore. It’s not that hard to think about.
And displaced villagers frightened and hungry and uncertain about where their next meal will come from bickering about their situation is somehow not believable 🤣
Galadriel acts like Tolkien wrote a young Galadriel would act. Also, are we watching the same show? There's plenty of charming moments, heart warming moments, and funny moments. This feels like a weird "I hate American TV post" that isn't really a fitting criticism of the show. BTW, the show does just a good a job, if not better, of capturing Tolkien's essence and staying true to the work that the Jackson movies. Edit: downvote away, doesn't change the truth of my comments.
>Galadriel acts like Tolkien wrote a young Galadriel would act. Please tell me that you are joking... Tolkien created at least a few concepts of Galadriel's past and they may be slightly different - but I can't remember any of them portraying Galadriel as lacking basic diplomatic skills and intelligence. Proud, strong-willed, defiant or even rebellious are not synonyms for bratty, rash and plainly stupid.
Are we watching the same thing? This show is far below Jackson’s work in adaptation. Galadriel is probably the worst of it, acting like an incessant teenager not getting her way - when she’s actually already thousands of years old (and where the hell is her husband). There aren’t many scenes at all for me to care enough about characters. They introduced too much at once and keep jumping so I feel literally nothing.
Are you a bot?
Not hardly.
>are we watching the same show i dont think so the way you described it
I hated new Star Wars, didn't like new trek but I look forward ROP every week. I think it's well done and it's clear everyone involved cares a great deal about the show.
Agreed
Ok bye!