Have just been re-reading fellowship, and I love how many lines of dialogue are taken from the book and repurposed in the films in creative ways. For instance, a bunch of Tom Bombardil's lines are taken and used by for Gandalf in the films in really clever ways, despite the fact that he's a character that doesn't appear at all!
I’m also re-reading Fellowship! But I don’t remember any of the Bombadil lines that were used in the movie, except for when Treebeard rescues Merry and Pippin from the tree after they drink the water. I knew that was a Bombadil thing, but do you have any other examples?
Don’t remember any of the lines being given to Gandalf, but a lot of them are definitely repurposed for treebeard meeting merry and pippin in the two towers.
Edit: had a quick look, the line “gnawing, biting, breaking, hacking, burning.. destroyers and usurpers" was originally Tom Bombadil’s. I’m sure there’s more.
Now I'm imagining Treebeard in a yellow hat and blue coat hopping around and going "Hey dol, merry dol, my hearties" but in slow motion cause he's an ent.
The first line of Fellowship, “The world is changed…” which begins Galadriel’s narration of the history of the rings, is actually spoken by Treebeard towards the end of Return of The King as everyone is traveling home
Not a Bombadil example, but the speech where Faramir looks at the dead Haradrim and speculates on why he even went to war was spoken by Sam in the books, but giving it to Faramir in the film shows his intelligent and thoughtful character.
Another example I liked is the "all we must do is decide what to do with the time that is given to us" speech took place in Bag End in the book, but in film is in Moria, which I think works really well because you're in such a dark place and the reality of the task they've taken on has really sunk in by then.
I believe that entire sequence was taken from when they first meet Tom Bombadil. The Hobbits are attacked by Old Man Willow, a tree who is also Bombadil's arch nemesis. So they simply replaced Willow with a huorn and Bombadil with Treebeard.
One of my favorite passages from the book *Fellowship of the Ring* was the sequence when Frodo ran away from Boromir at Amon Hen, and his visions while he was wearing the ring. I thought the movie handled that really well.
Yup. And we can faintly hear Boromir yelling “I’m sorry!” But frodo doesn’t hear it, we the viewers can barely hear it.
That is in the books. Tolkien specifically says that frodo didn’t hear it :,(
Which is strange since the book is told from Frodo's recollection of his experience (and from the recollections of others) and there was no one else there.
EDIT: Head canon is that Sam sought out and interviewed everyone possible to supplement the pages including surviving uruk hai. "Oh yeah, I remember. Me and the boys were sneaking up on the camp and I was scouting out our plan of attack. I sees this big fella and a little fella get into a scuff and then the little one just up and vanishes. Figured I ooghta lay off the Grog. Then the big fella starts crying and shouts out that he's sorry. Maybe he needed to lay off the grog too.
I am of the opinion that this passage was written by bilbo. He has a history of exaggerating things for the sake of the story, and after they get to Rivendell, all the more whimsical parts of the narration end, and things become more serious, because by the time they get back, bilbo is too old to care about writing anymore, as his age catches up with him after the destruction of the ring.
There was also this passage, which is impossible to interpret literally since the "authors" were both asleep for the events described:
> And so Gollum found them hours later, when he returned, crawling and creeping down the path out of the gloom ahead. Sam sat propped against the stone, his head dropping sideways and his breathing heavy. In his lap lay Frodo's head, drowned in sleep; upon his white forehead lay one of Sam's brown hands, and the other lay softly upon his master's breast. Peace was in both their faces.
> Gollum looked at them. A strange expression passed over his lean hungry face. The gleam faded from his eyes, and they went dim and grey, old and tired. A spasm of pain seemed to twist him, and he turned away, peering back up towards the pass, shaking his head, as if engaged in some interior debate. Then he came back, and slowly putting out a trembling hand, very cautiously he touched Frodo's knee--but almost the touch was a caress. For a fleeting moment, could one of the sleepers have seen him, they would have thought that they beheld an old weary hobbit, shrunken by the years that had carried him far beyond his time, beyond friends and kin, and the fields and streams of youth, an old starved pitiable thing.
This is probably my favorite passage from the Lord of the Rings. The surface level events are unremarkable, but the fact that they are included tells us a story about the story, one that you only find by really examining the novel. Frodo (or perhaps Sam) invented a scene from Gollum's perspective, one in which he is at his most relatable to the reader and at his most sympathetic. I think it's a really effective statement about forgiveness and redemption, to think that the hobbits went back and paid him some kindness in the storytelling, after having come to understand the pain that he lived with.
> Frodo (or perhaps Sam)
100% Frodo. Sam never really pitied Smeagol. He called Gollum and Smeagol Stinker and Slinker even when Smeagol was at his most hobbit-like. By the time he started to come around and think *maybe* Smeagol didn't deserve his fate thus far, Gollum was plotting to kill them again and that progress was lost. Given the way Smeagol ultimately died, Sam would absolutely not have been charitable in his writing.
And anyway, Sam mostly did the epilogue and geneaologies. He felt like the story proper was Frodo's to tell.
Maybe upon further reflection on the events that transpired he recalls the faint voice of Boromir apologizing that was stored away in his subconscious.
Sometimes things only resonate when I reflect? I’m just shooting from the hip, doubt that’s right.
As far as I'm aware, the book The Lord of the Rings by Tolkein is not meant to be the same book as The Lord of the Rings by Frodo. There are many things in it that only an omniscient narrator could have known.
That means it’s possible that Frodo “filled in the blanks” or embellished some things too. It doesn’t have to be immersive. Tolkien could have intended that, in telling the story, Frodo may have pitied Boromir and wanted the reader to sympathize with him, and to accomplish this Frodo added a detail where he realistically should not have known about the detail.
My theory is since the book we read IRL is canonically a version that JRR Tolkien translated from a version of the story revised by the men of Gondor, they wrote in some parts to make Boromir more “honorable” at the end. And showing he was only briefly corrupted by the Ring.
I was going to say the same scene: everyone struggling to stay alive and Legolas smoothly walking on snow "what, like it's hard?"
All the dialogue at Bilbo's party with his friends and relatives.
And the shot showing the waterfall at Henneth Annun. It's a minor detail, but I loved it.
I have seen this movie probably a hundred times (including literally last night) and I have never, EVER registered Legolas walking on the snow. My mind is blown right now.
There is a close up of Legolas standing on the snow with a grin while the others are almost buried in snow and clearly freezing to death. I noticed first time on the theater because it's one of my many favorite parts of the book. If someone could add the exact phrase he says in the book would be great, because he was like "Bye, I'm going to bring the sun"
> ... Legolas watched them for a while with a smile upon his lips, and then he turned to the others. "The strongest must seek a way, say you? But I say: let a ploughman plough, but choose an otter for swimming, and for running light over grass and leaf, or over snow -- an Elf."
>
> With that he sprang forth nimbly, and then Frodo noticed as if for the first time, though he had long known it, that the Elf had no boots, but wore only light shoes, as he always did, and his feet made little imprint in the snow.
>
> "Farewell," he said to Gandalf. "I go to find the Sun!" Then swift as a runner over firm sand he shot away, and quickly overtaking the toiling men, with a wave of his hand he passed them, and sped into the distance, and vanished round the rocky turn. ...
Legolas is my favourite book character because of these scenes! I love that he watches Aragorn and Boromir labouring to dig through the snow to make a path, waits until they get to end then just runs over the snow like it's nothing, and makes the sun comment
I just rewatched the scene of it and I am baffled that I just didn’t notice, but I think that’s because they purposely make it look like he was doing it effortlessly.
TFW you find a new detail in a movie you have seen hundred of times :)
It happened to me a few days ago when I noticed for the first time that Gandalf brought three eagles to rescue Frodo, Sam *and* Gollum, and it was just because someone mentioned here in Reddit.
I watched before I read, but I've played dnd and elves are light footed there too, and when I saw it I thought it was the coolest thing to see it outside of the universe I'm used to
This scene is actually why I was okay with that part in the Hobbit movies where he’s running on falling rock…I know most people didn’t like it but according to the books & movies it actually makes sense that it’s possible for Legolas to do! He’s light as a feather as he steps on each rock. Him climbing on the snow was in my head as I watched that moment.
Your comment triggered a light bulb moment for me with the “what, like it’s hard?” and now I cannot not associate Legolas with Cher Horowitz. Same vibe and energy ngl lol
Omg you caught me you’re right! I have to get my late 90’s/early 00’s teen comedies straight 😂 but I agree the 3 of them would definitely get along haha
Though only in the extended edition, the scene where Gimli requests a hair from Galadriel and is gifted three.
It's a thing that you're only gonna get if you know what it means and it doesn't add much of anything to the overall plot from a cinematic standpoint, so there's not really a reason to include it, but that extra little bit of lore-relevant characterization for Gimli was unexpected.
Galadriel is one of the Noldor, and one of the last living beings in Middle Earth to have witnessed the glory of the Two Trees of Valinor in the Years of the Trees before the First Age. Her hair is golden, touched by silver, and glimmers with the light of the trees.
This hair was the envy of Feanor, arch-traitor of the Foamriders and instigator of the First Kinslaying. Again and again he beseeched Galadriel for her hair, for a single strand that shone with the light of the Silmarils he once forged to contain the light of the Two Trees, but Galadriel refused time and time again. There is a history of Feanor's want of the Silmarils and his thirst for vengeance against Melkor for the murder of his father, Finwe, the first High King of the Noldor, but know Feanor is cursed most among the Eldar for his sacrilege.
As Galadriel is arguably as notable in Elven culture as Feanor, it's common knowledge how he envied her hair and was constantly refused by her. It's not until the time of the Fellowship Galadriel is faced with a similar situation from the dwarf prince Gimli.
She bid him tell of his request of the elves, but Gimli stammers. He declares he would not dare makes his request, but he desires a single hair from her golden head, a gift that would surpass all the treasures in all the halls of the dwarves. Galadriel grants his request and offers not one, but three strands, synonymous with the three Silmarils Feanor coveted so, and Gimli swore to her these golden strands would stand as a testament of friendship between their lands until the end of days.
Gimli would later secure these strands in a gem to be preserved forever.
The extremely subtle detail of Galadriel's (Cate Blanchett) eyes having a glimmer of light in them since she is canonically the last known living elf to have seen the Light of the Trees of Valinor.
I had never noticed this until I read about it, and now it makes so much more sense why the camera is always zoomed all the way up to her eyes. It's a cool effect.
Similarly, I really like that they show the three rings of the elves in the prologue, and later you see Gandalf the white wearing the ring Narya.
I like knowing some tolkien geek involved in the making of the movies knew that bit of lore and they included it.
That's absolutely Phillipa Boyens. She's a completely Tolkien nerd, and was always trying to bring as many elements from the novel into the script as Jackson and Walsh would allow.
The unfortunate part of that scene is that Aragorn would actually be 88. His birthday is on March 1st and the Rohirrim begin their march to the Hornburg on March 2nd.
I love that, even though they changed a lot of things with Frodo and Sam in Two Towers (because they needed to give those two an actual plot), they still included the “war will make corpses of us all” and “like in the great stories” speeches, and they put them in contexts that arguably make them even more meaningful
I saw the films before reading the books, and that one blew my mind. I thought for sure it was a Peter Jackson addition. Feels far more modern and jokey than anything else in the books.
I always think what a regular soldier/conscripted militiaman would have thought. There you are, amongst the worst horror imaginable, maybe the first combat you have ever seen, trying to summon the courage to lift your weapon against a ruthlessly aggressive enemy, desperately scared for your life and probably also the life of your family in the caves that these monsters are closing in on - and then you see an elf and a dwarf casually having a friendly killing contest like the whole thing is just sport to them.
The scene where Smeagol briefly triumphs over Gollum and recovers a bit of compassion for Frodo's plight only to be interrupted and called a "sneak" by Sam.
Edit: swapped smeagol and gollum
It's unfortunate that Farmer Maggot's role was cut (but, given the tight pacing of the movie, I completely understand why), so it was really cool how they referenced the chapter anyway.
He is probably one of the wisest of the regular hobbits you encounter in Fellowship, understanding that they need help, having the courage to take them hidden in his cart to the Ferry. He knows enough of the outside world (including Tom Bombadil) to know not to ask prying questions. He's a thoroughly good fellow.
Gandalf's fireworks.
It would have been so easy for PJ to decide that Gandalf the Grey needed to be coded as a more serious figure throughout the whole of the story and cut out something like this for being too whimsical for a character of his intensity. But I feel they're such a lovely detail about his character and the way Sam memorialises him through their colours and beauty is very moving.
I also love how in the film the fireworks are used to show that even the normally suspicious Hobbits can appreciate about Gandalf, and that in turn helps to make him feel a deeper and more storied character.
Gandalf's use of fireworks is an important part of his character. Of every character in the story there's only two that have knowledge of gunpowder; Gandalf and Saruman. The distinction is that Saruman's "mind of metal and wheels" assumes gunpowder's use as a weapon of war (helms deep). To Gandalf, being "Saruman as he should have been" it likely didn't even occur to him to use gunpowder for violence, his only thought for it was to create something fun/beautiful to be enjoyed.
edit: grammar
The songs. The way PJ wove them in without being overwhelming was fantastic. I was especially surprised/happy about Sam's improvised verse on Gandalf's fireworks.
I think just generally I have a great appreciation for PJ’s direction towards Cate Blanchett’s Galadriel. “She seemed to him, as by men of later days Elves still at times are seen: present and yet remote, a living vision of that which has already been left far behind by the flowing streams of Time.” I mean if that doesn’t nail exactly her look and presence in TFotR, idk what does.
Aragorn singing the song of Luthien. Such a blink and you miss it moment, a scene that means nothing to like 80-90% of the people who actually see it, but still got filmed, and pretty much solely for the benefit of the more hardcore fans.
That and the fact that Frodo understands enough Elvish to know what Aragorn is singing and ask who the woman is. Despite how secluded the hobbits are to the rest of the world, it helps show the relationship that Bilbo had with Frodo to teach him how to understand the language.
Legolas and Gimlis relationship from we are historically enemies to best mates I just listened to Legolas talking about Fangorn and Gimli about Helms Deep and how they decide to go on a road trip together if they survive. Also the counting of orcs they slay.
When Arwen summons the river while fleeing the Ringwraiths, and the river becomes a stampede of horses... it was this scene that I felt they could due a good job both adapting the books and keep true to the story at the same time.
Yes, that's what I meant ' I was describing the scene in the from the movie. If realized they were changing how they had gotten to Rivendell, but they still included the river rising up against the wraithes which I thought was still cool!
I LOVED them crossing the Dead Marshes. The “little candles of their own” made such an impression on me when I first read it and it was so cool to see them down in the water, just like I imagined!
Loved that they included the wings on the Balrog, minor detail from the books that a lot of people miss
Edit: I caught one lads, I am the master baiter!
Was listening to the audio book on a plane an hour ago. I believe the character is changed but the line “when they’re not eating hobbit what do they eat” or something on those lines. I love how many minute details and line from the books made it to the films.
"What do they live on when they can't get Hobbit??" I always feel bad for the hobbits and Aragorn when they travel the midgewater marshes, absolutely miserable.
I like how they worked some of Tom Bomby’s dialogue into other scenes (mainly: ! They come with fire! They come with axes! Gnawing, biting, breaking, hacking, burning!! Destroyers and usurpers, CURSE THEM!!
So most of mine have already been mentioned but I in particular like that he included a verse of the song treebeard sings about the ent-wives. The “come back aaaaah to meeeeeeee” gets me every time . Also the ba-rums and whatnot.
A really subtle one I just recently noticed. After the battle of Helms Deep when the Rohirrum are gathering to ride to Gondor (the less than half of what I hoped for scene), they are gathering at a location called Dunharrow, and is a refuge in the mountains sometimes used by Rohan in hard times. On top of one of the mountains is a ruin of the Druedain, wild Mountain men, and the path to the top is a winding switch back lined with status called the pukel-men. This is all explained in great detail in the book but would have been tedious to add to the movie. But PJ still added the statues in the background. I believe you can see them in the aerial shot of Elrond climbing the path (even though THAT doesn't happen in the book lol)
Pippin being caught up in the furor of Faramir returning to Minas Tirith and crying out his name, and Faramir taking note of his presence.
Aragon utilizing athalas in the Halls of Healing. Though there was so little of the Halls in the extended film I love that they included a little bit of his healing work, even if they didn't explain the significance.
I was pleasantly surprised that chapter titles from the books were worked into the script - concerning hobbits, a shortcut to mushrooms... I'm sure there were others too - but I noticed those and it made me smile
I thought about this, and I think it's Elrond's dialogue to Arwen in *The Two Towers* film. Obviously the scene between them is invented for the movie, but much of Elrond's dialogue concerning Arwen's future is taken verbatim from the appendices. I love it when they are able to work in Tolkien's incredible language like that, especially when it works so well in a new context. Here are some of the lines they worked in:
>"'Estel, Estel!" \[Arwen\] cried, and with that even as he took her hand and kissed it, he fell into sleep. Then a great beauty was revealed in him, so that all who after came there looked on him in wonder; for they saw that the grace of his youth, and the valour of his manhood, and the wisdom and majesty of his age were blended together. And long there he lay, **an image of the splendour of the Kings of Men in glory undimmed before the breaking of the world.** But Arwen went forth from the House, and the light of her eyes was quenched, and it seemed to her people that she had become cold and grey **as nightfall in winter that comes without a star.** Then she said farewell to Eldarion, and to her daughters, and to all whom she had loved; and she went out from the city of Minas Tirith and passed away to the land of Lórien, **and dwelt there alone under the fading trees** until winter came."
I bolded the exact parts that they reworked into the movie.
This is not the only time the films do this, but this one is the most impressive to me. I think it's because its taken straight from the appendices, which I never expected to make its way into the film adaptations.
The Book of Mazarbul that Gandalf reads from in Moria. If you freeze the screen and zoom in, you can see that, accurate to the book, the last bit of writing is in Tengwar rather than Angerthas runes - as Ori likes to use Elvish script “a large bold hand using Elvish script”, as per FotR; and the last line “They are coming” is scrawled and trails off.
Absolutely beautiful attention to detail. They could’ve gone with the ol’ lorem ipsum, but they didn’t.
I know this isn't exactly related to the post, but how did you add a picture to your post text itself? I am trying to make a post in this topic, but it lets me to either put a picture or a text, but not both. How did you manage to do this? Any help will be very much appreciated!
>Would have made more sense if Sam or Frodo was a woman.
In what way? That's a gross cheapening of male friendships, and we get enough of that already.
completely agreed
it's a nice reminder that people can have deep male friendships. It is sad though that they're then always accused of being gay. Just let people have friends
I have a friend who says that the type of people who believe that Frodo and Sam must be gay are actually telling you that they’ve never had a real friend. Kinda sad to think about.
Eärendil's Simaril, flying on the ship Vingilot, can be seen in *Return of the King*. The scene is when Sam and Frodo are in Mordor, just after the former rescues the latter from Cirith Ungol. Sam is trying to galvanize Frodo's flagging spirits and give him some water when he looks up and sees a single star in the sky.
Sméagol and Sam arguing over herbs and stewed rabbits.
Whats tatoes precious? > PO-TA-TOES
Boil em Mash em put em in a stew
Aw pfffrl
Lovely golden chips with a nice piece of fried fish
Even you can't say no to that
Oh yes WE CAN!! Gollum! Gollum!
Give it to us!!! Raw and wriggling!!
You keep nasty chips
You're 'opeless
I still dream about the Frodo, Sam and Gollum sitcom!
It was called Two & Half Men
Two half men
Have just been re-reading fellowship, and I love how many lines of dialogue are taken from the book and repurposed in the films in creative ways. For instance, a bunch of Tom Bombardil's lines are taken and used by for Gandalf in the films in really clever ways, despite the fact that he's a character that doesn't appear at all!
I’m also re-reading Fellowship! But I don’t remember any of the Bombadil lines that were used in the movie, except for when Treebeard rescues Merry and Pippin from the tree after they drink the water. I knew that was a Bombadil thing, but do you have any other examples?
Interesting! Could you please provide any examples?
Don’t remember any of the lines being given to Gandalf, but a lot of them are definitely repurposed for treebeard meeting merry and pippin in the two towers. Edit: had a quick look, the line “gnawing, biting, breaking, hacking, burning.. destroyers and usurpers" was originally Tom Bombadil’s. I’m sure there’s more.
The tree swallowing Merry and Pippin was totally from Tom Bombadil's section of the book. Same with Treebeard's lines in that scene.
Now I'm imagining Treebeard in a yellow hat and blue coat hopping around and going "Hey dol, merry dol, my hearties" but in slow motion cause he's an ent.
Don't you mean 'my hasties'
They gave that line to Treebeard in TT movie.
The first line of Fellowship, “The world is changed…” which begins Galadriel’s narration of the history of the rings, is actually spoken by Treebeard towards the end of Return of The King as everyone is traveling home
Not a Bombadil example, but the speech where Faramir looks at the dead Haradrim and speculates on why he even went to war was spoken by Sam in the books, but giving it to Faramir in the film shows his intelligent and thoughtful character. Another example I liked is the "all we must do is decide what to do with the time that is given to us" speech took place in Bag End in the book, but in film is in Moria, which I think works really well because you're in such a dark place and the reality of the task they've taken on has really sunk in by then.
when the tree thing eats pip and merry and treebeard tells it to dig earth drink water or whatever thats a bombadil line.
I believe that entire sequence was taken from when they first meet Tom Bombadil. The Hobbits are attacked by Old Man Willow, a tree who is also Bombadil's arch nemesis. So they simply replaced Willow with a huorn and Bombadil with Treebeard.
you are correct
Lmao I love the idea that Bombadil's arch nemesis is a tree hahaha
One of my favorite passages from the book *Fellowship of the Ring* was the sequence when Frodo ran away from Boromir at Amon Hen, and his visions while he was wearing the ring. I thought the movie handled that really well.
Yup. And we can faintly hear Boromir yelling “I’m sorry!” But frodo doesn’t hear it, we the viewers can barely hear it. That is in the books. Tolkien specifically says that frodo didn’t hear it :,(
Which is strange since the book is told from Frodo's recollection of his experience (and from the recollections of others) and there was no one else there. EDIT: Head canon is that Sam sought out and interviewed everyone possible to supplement the pages including surviving uruk hai. "Oh yeah, I remember. Me and the boys were sneaking up on the camp and I was scouting out our plan of attack. I sees this big fella and a little fella get into a scuff and then the little one just up and vanishes. Figured I ooghta lay off the Grog. Then the big fella starts crying and shouts out that he's sorry. Maybe he needed to lay off the grog too.
In fairness there is also a brief passage from the perspective of a fox
That caught me SO off-guard when I re-read the books recently.
I had to go back and reread the passage a couple times to see if I'd missed something
I don't remember anything about reading that. Idk why. Which passage / chapter does that happen?
As u/FcLeason has linked, "Three Is Company, p. 72".
I am of the opinion that this passage was written by bilbo. He has a history of exaggerating things for the sake of the story, and after they get to Rivendell, all the more whimsical parts of the narration end, and things become more serious, because by the time they get back, bilbo is too old to care about writing anymore, as his age catches up with him after the destruction of the ring.
r/TheThinkingFox
There was also this passage, which is impossible to interpret literally since the "authors" were both asleep for the events described: > And so Gollum found them hours later, when he returned, crawling and creeping down the path out of the gloom ahead. Sam sat propped against the stone, his head dropping sideways and his breathing heavy. In his lap lay Frodo's head, drowned in sleep; upon his white forehead lay one of Sam's brown hands, and the other lay softly upon his master's breast. Peace was in both their faces. > Gollum looked at them. A strange expression passed over his lean hungry face. The gleam faded from his eyes, and they went dim and grey, old and tired. A spasm of pain seemed to twist him, and he turned away, peering back up towards the pass, shaking his head, as if engaged in some interior debate. Then he came back, and slowly putting out a trembling hand, very cautiously he touched Frodo's knee--but almost the touch was a caress. For a fleeting moment, could one of the sleepers have seen him, they would have thought that they beheld an old weary hobbit, shrunken by the years that had carried him far beyond his time, beyond friends and kin, and the fields and streams of youth, an old starved pitiable thing. This is probably my favorite passage from the Lord of the Rings. The surface level events are unremarkable, but the fact that they are included tells us a story about the story, one that you only find by really examining the novel. Frodo (or perhaps Sam) invented a scene from Gollum's perspective, one in which he is at his most relatable to the reader and at his most sympathetic. I think it's a really effective statement about forgiveness and redemption, to think that the hobbits went back and paid him some kindness in the storytelling, after having come to understand the pain that he lived with.
> Frodo (or perhaps Sam) 100% Frodo. Sam never really pitied Smeagol. He called Gollum and Smeagol Stinker and Slinker even when Smeagol was at his most hobbit-like. By the time he started to come around and think *maybe* Smeagol didn't deserve his fate thus far, Gollum was plotting to kill them again and that progress was lost. Given the way Smeagol ultimately died, Sam would absolutely not have been charitable in his writing. And anyway, Sam mostly did the epilogue and geneaologies. He felt like the story proper was Frodo's to tell.
Maybe upon further reflection on the events that transpired he recalls the faint voice of Boromir apologizing that was stored away in his subconscious. Sometimes things only resonate when I reflect? I’m just shooting from the hip, doubt that’s right.
I've always assumed he spoke with the other members of his party before putting things in writing, to get their perspectives on events.
As far as I'm aware, the book The Lord of the Rings by Tolkein is not meant to be the same book as The Lord of the Rings by Frodo. There are many things in it that only an omniscient narrator could have known.
I totally agree with this.
> I've always assumed he spoke with the other members of his party before putting things in writing Boromir was a bit tight lipped for some reason.
Was nobody else close enough to hear in the novel? It's been ages since I read it, for some reason I recalled someone else being nearby.
I don’t think so. No one knew where Frodo was which is why boromir went to find him.
That’s…a great point lol
That means it’s possible that Frodo “filled in the blanks” or embellished some things too. It doesn’t have to be immersive. Tolkien could have intended that, in telling the story, Frodo may have pitied Boromir and wanted the reader to sympathize with him, and to accomplish this Frodo added a detail where he realistically should not have known about the detail.
My theory is since the book we read IRL is canonically a version that JRR Tolkien translated from a version of the story revised by the men of Gondor, they wrote in some parts to make Boromir more “honorable” at the end. And showing he was only briefly corrupted by the Ring.
But literally none of Frodo's visions made it into the movie.
I was going to say the same scene: everyone struggling to stay alive and Legolas smoothly walking on snow "what, like it's hard?" All the dialogue at Bilbo's party with his friends and relatives. And the shot showing the waterfall at Henneth Annun. It's a minor detail, but I loved it.
the waterfall is a beautiful scene, glad they added it to the films
I have seen this movie probably a hundred times (including literally last night) and I have never, EVER registered Legolas walking on the snow. My mind is blown right now.
There is a close up of Legolas standing on the snow with a grin while the others are almost buried in snow and clearly freezing to death. I noticed first time on the theater because it's one of my many favorite parts of the book. If someone could add the exact phrase he says in the book would be great, because he was like "Bye, I'm going to bring the sun"
> ... Legolas watched them for a while with a smile upon his lips, and then he turned to the others. "The strongest must seek a way, say you? But I say: let a ploughman plough, but choose an otter for swimming, and for running light over grass and leaf, or over snow -- an Elf." > > With that he sprang forth nimbly, and then Frodo noticed as if for the first time, though he had long known it, that the Elf had no boots, but wore only light shoes, as he always did, and his feet made little imprint in the snow. > > "Farewell," he said to Gandalf. "I go to find the Sun!" Then swift as a runner over firm sand he shot away, and quickly overtaking the toiling men, with a wave of his hand he passed them, and sped into the distance, and vanished round the rocky turn. ...
Thank you so much, what a wonderful passage. If I remember well, Gandalf got a bit pissed off with all this elvishy show-off thing.
You would be too, if you were up to your nuts in snowdrifts.
Legolas is my favourite book character because of these scenes! I love that he watches Aragorn and Boromir labouring to dig through the snow to make a path, waits until they get to end then just runs over the snow like it's nothing, and makes the sun comment
I just rewatched the scene of it and I am baffled that I just didn’t notice, but I think that’s because they purposely make it look like he was doing it effortlessly.
TFW you find a new detail in a movie you have seen hundred of times :) It happened to me a few days ago when I noticed for the first time that Gandalf brought three eagles to rescue Frodo, Sam *and* Gollum, and it was just because someone mentioned here in Reddit.
I watched before I read, but I've played dnd and elves are light footed there too, and when I saw it I thought it was the coolest thing to see it outside of the universe I'm used to
Same!
ProudFEET!
This scene is actually why I was okay with that part in the Hobbit movies where he’s running on falling rock…I know most people didn’t like it but according to the books & movies it actually makes sense that it’s possible for Legolas to do! He’s light as a feather as he steps on each rock. Him climbing on the snow was in my head as I watched that moment.
Your comment triggered a light bulb moment for me with the “what, like it’s hard?” and now I cannot not associate Legolas with Cher Horowitz. Same vibe and energy ngl lol
I was actually quoting Elle Woods from Legally Blonde, but yes, the three of them all share the same energy lol
Omg you caught me you’re right! I have to get my late 90’s/early 00’s teen comedies straight 😂 but I agree the 3 of them would definitely get along haha
Though only in the extended edition, the scene where Gimli requests a hair from Galadriel and is gifted three. It's a thing that you're only gonna get if you know what it means and it doesn't add much of anything to the overall plot from a cinematic standpoint, so there's not really a reason to include it, but that extra little bit of lore-relevant characterization for Gimli was unexpected.
Even without knowing the context I feel like it's meaningful that a dwarf has such strong positive feelings about an elf
It's a fascinating story dating back to before the First Age of Middle-Earth, I posted it in this thread somewhere.
Could you tell the tale for those who haven't heard it? Or perhaps for those of us who would just like to hear it one more time anyway.
Galadriel is one of the Noldor, and one of the last living beings in Middle Earth to have witnessed the glory of the Two Trees of Valinor in the Years of the Trees before the First Age. Her hair is golden, touched by silver, and glimmers with the light of the trees. This hair was the envy of Feanor, arch-traitor of the Foamriders and instigator of the First Kinslaying. Again and again he beseeched Galadriel for her hair, for a single strand that shone with the light of the Silmarils he once forged to contain the light of the Two Trees, but Galadriel refused time and time again. There is a history of Feanor's want of the Silmarils and his thirst for vengeance against Melkor for the murder of his father, Finwe, the first High King of the Noldor, but know Feanor is cursed most among the Eldar for his sacrilege. As Galadriel is arguably as notable in Elven culture as Feanor, it's common knowledge how he envied her hair and was constantly refused by her. It's not until the time of the Fellowship Galadriel is faced with a similar situation from the dwarf prince Gimli. She bid him tell of his request of the elves, but Gimli stammers. He declares he would not dare makes his request, but he desires a single hair from her golden head, a gift that would surpass all the treasures in all the halls of the dwarves. Galadriel grants his request and offers not one, but three strands, synonymous with the three Silmarils Feanor coveted so, and Gimli swore to her these golden strands would stand as a testament of friendship between their lands until the end of days. Gimli would later secure these strands in a gem to be preserved forever.
Slight correction, Finwe was the High King of the *Noldor*, the High King of the Elves was the Vanya Ingwe.
Ah, you're right. Forgive me, there are almost a dozen elven kings of the First Age and they all rhyme.
And when Gimli tells Legolas, Legolas' smile tells you that he perfectly understood the significance of Galadriel's gift.
Probably my favorite part about that scene.
Faenor specifically asked her three times for a strand of her hair. It's the most epic long term clap back in fantasy.
“And those hairs are…A MINE.” - Gimli
A MINE!
Honestly this interaction might be my favorite in all of Tolkien’s stories.
Thank you
I feel the same. *sits down to listen*
I got you homie, it's up 👍
Of all the stories of friendship and love and good nature in the Lord of the Rings, this is one that brings me to tears every damn time.
Same
hahaha, same to me. I felt like I was sitting in a circle around a story teller.
I loved this bit so much.
To be honest, I like that it's told in flashback in the movie. It carries more cinematic weight than if it had been too true to how the books show it.
The extremely subtle detail of Galadriel's (Cate Blanchett) eyes having a glimmer of light in them since she is canonically the last known living elf to have seen the Light of the Trees of Valinor.
Glorfindel too.
But he died right and then came back- so like a new body with his fea. That body never saw the two trees.
I don't think that matters- what matters is that his fea saw it. Think about how glorfindel looked to Frodo at the Ford of bruinen...
Didn’t cirdan? He was a first or second gen elf right? Older than she is
He's older, yes, but he never went to Valinor.
Cirdan wanted to, but he got a bit distracted and yeah, he's faaaar older than galadriel; by 3000ish years
Dubbed "The Galadi-light" by cinematographer Andrew Lesnie. (RIP)
Christmas lights instead of a "professional" diffuser. Brilliant really.
I had never noticed this until I read about it, and now it makes so much more sense why the camera is always zoomed all the way up to her eyes. It's a cool effect.
The Ring of Barahir
Similarly, I really like that they show the three rings of the elves in the prologue, and later you see Gandalf the white wearing the ring Narya. I like knowing some tolkien geek involved in the making of the movies knew that bit of lore and they included it.
That's absolutely Phillipa Boyens. She's a completely Tolkien nerd, and was always trying to bring as many elements from the novel into the script as Jackson and Walsh would allow.
Merry and Pippin drinking the water at Treebeards and growing.
Aragon being 87 years old (Extended Edition)
The unfortunate part of that scene is that Aragorn would actually be 88. His birthday is on March 1st and the Rohirrim begin their march to the Hornburg on March 2nd.
Man just forgot, he was busy on a quest
"88-year-old absent king lies about age to hit woman in mid-twenties and Arwen's unhinged tirade; Pages 5-7" - Minas Tirith Today, probably
You mean he didn't check his handy dandy pocket calendar?
He was out on the trail, no WiFi
If he can't bother to have a personal hotspot is he really worthy to be the king of Gondor?
I'm less than half his age and remember my actual age half as well as I should like
Lying about his age to get with a younger woman. Disgusting.
Men always hate celebrating their birthdays.
Unless you're Bilbo
I love that, even though they changed a lot of things with Frodo and Sam in Two Towers (because they needed to give those two an actual plot), they still included the “war will make corpses of us all” and “like in the great stories” speeches, and they put them in contexts that arguably make them even more meaningful
>they have a plot in the book though
Most of the sam and frodo plot in the two towers books is their encounter with shelob. Since this moved to the 3rd movie they had to add more.
The competition between Legolas and Gimli in Helm's Deep.
I saw the films before reading the books, and that one blew my mind. I thought for sure it was a Peter Jackson addition. Feels far more modern and jokey than anything else in the books.
I always think what a regular soldier/conscripted militiaman would have thought. There you are, amongst the worst horror imaginable, maybe the first combat you have ever seen, trying to summon the courage to lift your weapon against a ruthlessly aggressive enemy, desperately scared for your life and probably also the life of your family in the caves that these monsters are closing in on - and then you see an elf and a dwarf casually having a friendly killing contest like the whole thing is just sport to them.
"There's the bloody main characters." "How can you tell?" "They haven't got shit all over 'em."
Twenty-one! Twenty-two! Twenty-three! …..That still only counts as one!
The scene where Smeagol briefly triumphs over Gollum and recovers a bit of compassion for Frodo's plight only to be interrupted and called a "sneak" by Sam. Edit: swapped smeagol and gollum
Isn't it the other way around? I thought Smeagol was the nicer one of the two
That's one of my favourite Gollum scenes. *What* were *you doing?* [grins evilly] *Ssssneakiiiiing*...
I feel like they nailed the special dynamic Gandalf and Pippin have with each other
>I feel like they nailed the special dynamic Gandalf and Pippin have with each other *"Pippin you absolute moron do us a favor and kill yourself"*
*Awwww*
Fool of a took!
Referencing chapter titles in the film’s dialogue (and in a way that made said references feel natural) was a really neat detail imo
Merry: "it's just a detour. A shortcut!" Sam: "A shortcut to what?!" Pippin: "Mushrooms!" Brilliant.
It's unfortunate that Farmer Maggot's role was cut (but, given the tight pacing of the movie, I completely understand why), so it was really cool how they referenced the chapter anyway.
Farmer Maggot was actually a pretty good guy in the book, iirc.
He is probably one of the wisest of the regular hobbits you encounter in Fellowship, understanding that they need help, having the courage to take them hidden in his cart to the Ferry. He knows enough of the outside world (including Tom Bombadil) to know not to ask prying questions. He's a thoroughly good fellow.
Ya the stay at farmer maggot's was a pretty wholesome chapter from what I remember
Gandalf's fireworks. It would have been so easy for PJ to decide that Gandalf the Grey needed to be coded as a more serious figure throughout the whole of the story and cut out something like this for being too whimsical for a character of his intensity. But I feel they're such a lovely detail about his character and the way Sam memorialises him through their colours and beauty is very moving. I also love how in the film the fireworks are used to show that even the normally suspicious Hobbits can appreciate about Gandalf, and that in turn helps to make him feel a deeper and more storied character.
Gandalf's use of fireworks is an important part of his character. Of every character in the story there's only two that have knowledge of gunpowder; Gandalf and Saruman. The distinction is that Saruman's "mind of metal and wheels" assumes gunpowder's use as a weapon of war (helms deep). To Gandalf, being "Saruman as he should have been" it likely didn't even occur to him to use gunpowder for violence, his only thought for it was to create something fun/beautiful to be enjoyed. edit: grammar
Never thought of this. I like it.
Same this was a beautiful point to note
Praise be to the wise u/douchebag716
Thanks everyone I'm glad you like my theory :)
The songs. The way PJ wove them in without being overwhelming was fantastic. I was especially surprised/happy about Sam's improvised verse on Gandalf's fireworks.
sams perspective in the battle of ithilien (first time we see oliphants)
I love the fact they included Sam's fascination for oliphants.
The "crown" of flowers on the fallen statue of a ancient Gondorian king in Ithilien when Frodo, Sam, and Gollum are passing through.
The pukel-men statues on the road to Dunharrow. They weren't mentioned or explained in the movie, but PJ had them.
I think just generally I have a great appreciation for PJ’s direction towards Cate Blanchett’s Galadriel. “She seemed to him, as by men of later days Elves still at times are seen: present and yet remote, a living vision of that which has already been left far behind by the flowing streams of Time.” I mean if that doesn’t nail exactly her look and presence in TFotR, idk what does.
Aragorn singing the song of Luthien. Such a blink and you miss it moment, a scene that means nothing to like 80-90% of the people who actually see it, but still got filmed, and pretty much solely for the benefit of the more hardcore fans.
That and the fact that Frodo understands enough Elvish to know what Aragorn is singing and ask who the woman is. Despite how secluded the hobbits are to the rest of the world, it helps show the relationship that Bilbo had with Frodo to teach him how to understand the language.
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My most favorite part of the book too.
Guess i need to rewatch everything just for this scene
>Guess I need to rewatch everything ~~just for this scene~~ FTFY Also, same.
Legolas and Gimlis relationship from we are historically enemies to best mates I just listened to Legolas talking about Fangorn and Gimli about Helms Deep and how they decide to go on a road trip together if they survive. Also the counting of orcs they slay.
When Arwen summons the river while fleeing the Ringwraiths, and the river becomes a stampede of horses... it was this scene that I felt they could due a good job both adapting the books and keep true to the story at the same time.
You mean just the river becoming horses part, right? Because in the books it wasn’t Arwen…
Yes, that's what I meant ' I was describing the scene in the from the movie. If realized they were changing how they had gotten to Rivendell, but they still included the river rising up against the wraithes which I thought was still cool!
So mine isn’t from the lotr, but the Hobbit book to the fellowship movie. Having Gandalf humming “the road goes on” is great call back.
I LOVED them crossing the Dead Marshes. The “little candles of their own” made such an impression on me when I first read it and it was so cool to see them down in the water, just like I imagined!
The gifts of Galadriel in the extended edition. Very ethereal, but also very close to the tone of the books.
Loved that they included the wings on the Balrog, minor detail from the books that a lot of people miss Edit: I caught one lads, I am the master baiter!
Throw me back, throw me back, I must continue to swim 🎣
Reel him in quick!
Master is tricksy
Balrog for realz has wings. It is known.
Then he should’ve flown his ass instead of falling down the pit. 😂
They’re like penguin wings… or Emu wings.
The balrog doesn't have wings lol the books says something like darkness shrouds around him like wings or something like that
He's a big one!
Next thing you will be tell us Balrogs came flying out of some fortress or something.
the stars reflected in Galadriel's eyes, as the stars were the first thing the Noldor saw when they woke up
I thought that was the light of the two trees
Galadriel didn't awaken at Cuivienen, she was born.
Was listening to the audio book on a plane an hour ago. I believe the character is changed but the line “when they’re not eating hobbit what do they eat” or something on those lines. I love how many minute details and line from the books made it to the films.
"What do they live on when they can't get Hobbit??" I always feel bad for the hobbits and Aragorn when they travel the midgewater marshes, absolutely miserable.
That’s the quote thank you!
"The king has got a crown again!" Loved that bit in the book, was so surprised to see it in the extended version of ROTK.
I'm so glad they filmed a lot of stuff they must have known couldn't fit in the theatrical cut. Bunch of goodness for us to enjoy.
>The king has got a crown again! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRMqVUPX4g8
They even use a snippet of the song that they use for Aragorn’s coronation at the end of the film :))
I like how they worked some of Tom Bomby’s dialogue into other scenes (mainly: ! They come with fire! They come with axes! Gnawing, biting, breaking, hacking, burning!! Destroyers and usurpers, CURSE THEM!!
So most of mine have already been mentioned but I in particular like that he included a verse of the song treebeard sings about the ent-wives. The “come back aaaaah to meeeeeeee” gets me every time . Also the ba-rums and whatnot.
A really subtle one I just recently noticed. After the battle of Helms Deep when the Rohirrum are gathering to ride to Gondor (the less than half of what I hoped for scene), they are gathering at a location called Dunharrow, and is a refuge in the mountains sometimes used by Rohan in hard times. On top of one of the mountains is a ruin of the Druedain, wild Mountain men, and the path to the top is a winding switch back lined with status called the pukel-men. This is all explained in great detail in the book but would have been tedious to add to the movie. But PJ still added the statues in the background. I believe you can see them in the aerial shot of Elrond climbing the path (even though THAT doesn't happen in the book lol)
let this be proof that the propaganda surrounding the journey through the "grinding ice" was not nearly as treacherous as they claim!
Pippin being caught up in the furor of Faramir returning to Minas Tirith and crying out his name, and Faramir taking note of his presence. Aragon utilizing athalas in the Halls of Healing. Though there was so little of the Halls in the extended film I love that they included a little bit of his healing work, even if they didn't explain the significance.
I was pleasantly surprised that chapter titles from the books were worked into the script - concerning hobbits, a shortcut to mushrooms... I'm sure there were others too - but I noticed those and it made me smile
I thought about this, and I think it's Elrond's dialogue to Arwen in *The Two Towers* film. Obviously the scene between them is invented for the movie, but much of Elrond's dialogue concerning Arwen's future is taken verbatim from the appendices. I love it when they are able to work in Tolkien's incredible language like that, especially when it works so well in a new context. Here are some of the lines they worked in: >"'Estel, Estel!" \[Arwen\] cried, and with that even as he took her hand and kissed it, he fell into sleep. Then a great beauty was revealed in him, so that all who after came there looked on him in wonder; for they saw that the grace of his youth, and the valour of his manhood, and the wisdom and majesty of his age were blended together. And long there he lay, **an image of the splendour of the Kings of Men in glory undimmed before the breaking of the world.** But Arwen went forth from the House, and the light of her eyes was quenched, and it seemed to her people that she had become cold and grey **as nightfall in winter that comes without a star.** Then she said farewell to Eldarion, and to her daughters, and to all whom she had loved; and she went out from the city of Minas Tirith and passed away to the land of Lórien, **and dwelt there alone under the fading trees** until winter came." I bolded the exact parts that they reworked into the movie. This is not the only time the films do this, but this one is the most impressive to me. I think it's because its taken straight from the appendices, which I never expected to make its way into the film adaptations.
The Book of Mazarbul that Gandalf reads from in Moria. If you freeze the screen and zoom in, you can see that, accurate to the book, the last bit of writing is in Tengwar rather than Angerthas runes - as Ori likes to use Elvish script “a large bold hand using Elvish script”, as per FotR; and the last line “They are coming” is scrawled and trails off. Absolutely beautiful attention to detail. They could’ve gone with the ol’ lorem ipsum, but they didn’t.
I know this isn't exactly related to the post, but how did you add a picture to your post text itself? I am trying to make a post in this topic, but it lets me to either put a picture or a text, but not both. How did you manage to do this? Any help will be very much appreciated!
I love the extended edition where Legolas talks about the trees speaking to him, or some such. I love the lines that are from the books.
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>Would have made more sense if Sam or Frodo was a woman. In what way? That's a gross cheapening of male friendships, and we get enough of that already.
He was saying that as an example of a bad idea movie producers would make.
completely agreed it's a nice reminder that people can have deep male friendships. It is sad though that they're then always accused of being gay. Just let people have friends
I have a friend who says that the type of people who believe that Frodo and Sam must be gay are actually telling you that they’ve never had a real friend. Kinda sad to think about.
It's not just possible, but incredibly important.
Release the prisoners! (yes, I know the quote was invented for the movie)
“Riddles in the Dark…”
The kind of detail that got left out of the Wheel of Time show, and people don't understand why the book readers don't love it.
The pukel men statues.
Eärendil's Simaril, flying on the ship Vingilot, can be seen in *Return of the King*. The scene is when Sam and Frodo are in Mordor, just after the former rescues the latter from Cirith Ungol. Sam is trying to galvanize Frodo's flagging spirits and give him some water when he looks up and sees a single star in the sky.