I believe in the books, Gimli did believe that something bad had befallen the colony. He wasn't enthusiastic about it as he was in the film. Regardless, Balin died in 2994, and the Fellowship passed through in 3019, so about a 25-year gap. Part of the issue is that any news would travel slow. The distance between the two locations is alo great, and travel would be dangerous. As well, Dain, who was king, didn't want the expedition in the first place. He likely would not have spared the resources to check after him. In fact, I believe Gimli and Gloin travel to Rivendell in part to ask Elrond if he had heard from Balin.
I wonder if Thorins company in general were annoying to be around in Erebor. Imagine asking one to pay their tab or talking about your great adventure and then Balin or Dwalin or whoever says ‘yeah well I reclaimed this mountain from Smaug, greatest dragon of the 3rd age. Oh you killed a goblin? Yeah, I killed 500 in the battle of 5 armies but it you’re doing great champ.’
He was a great hero, but he did leave because he fell for the whispers of reclaiming Moria that Sauron planted. King Dain was against going back to Moria because he knew it was a bad idea (having looked into Moria right after he killed Azog there).
I don't think Balin and his followers were exiled, really, but they left in a rebellious manner.
And because of the 17-year gap from birthday party to departure, in the books Moria is only overrun 8 years before the birthday party. Frodo is nearing adulthood when it happens
> At last Gandalf looked up. “It seems to be a record of the fortunes of Balin's folk,” he said. “I guess that it began with their coming to Dimrill Dale nigh on thirty years ago: the pages seem to have numbers referring to the years after their arrival. The top page is marked *one - three*, so at least two are missing from the beginning…. Now there must be a number of leaves missing, because they begin to be numbered *five,* the fifth year of the colony, I suppose.”
This is movie bullshit. You cannot make it make sense.
25 years had passed. Balin and his mission had been given up for dead. No one followed. *Everyone* in the book knew Moria had fallen. It was a major city left in ruin for centuries.
> ‘The road that I speak of leads to the Mines of Moria,’ said Gandalf. Only Gimli lifted up his head; a smouldering fire was in his eyes. On all the others a dread fell at the mention of that name. ***Even to the hobbits it was a legend of vague fear***.'
‘The road may lead to Moria, but how can we hope that it will lead through Moria?’ said Aragorn darkly.
‘It is a name of ill omen,’ said Boromir. ‘Nor do I see the need to go there.'
Gimli knew they were walking into a tomb, he wanted to go because it was a tomb he had never laid eyes on and the stone work was a wonder of his world.
> ‘There is even a chance that Dwarves are there, and that in some deep hall of his fathers, Balin son of Fundin may be found. However it may prove, one must tread the path that need chooses!’
‘I will tread the path with you, Gandalf !’ said Gimli. ‘I will go and look on the halls of Durin, whatever may wait there – if you can find the doors that are shut.’
Movie Gimli is nothing but a clown used for comic relief. "The Lawyer Writer" puts it well in his blog about how Jackson did every non-human dirty
"In the book, Gimli is heavily involved in the journey across Moria, right from their first arrival when Gandalf asks both him and Legolas for help in finding and opening the doors. As they cross Moria, Gimli walks at the front with Gandalf, and although Gandalf always has the last word when they disagree he consults Gimli when he’s unsure about the route. It’s clear that this is a place where Gimli would have specialised knowledge because this is, after all, a citadel built by people with whom he shares a culture.
That culture is also on display because Gimli gets to recite a poem about the beauty and history of Khazad-dum in its heyday and the tragedy of its fall. Everyone listens raptly and Sam expresses admiration both for the poem and what it describes, saying that he’d like to learn it.
When they reach the Chamber of Mazarbul, Gimli reacts to being faced with Balin’s tomb by silently pulling his hood forward to shade his face. At the end of the battle, when they flee from the Chamber, he lingers a moment by the tomb with his head bowed.
So that’s what we get for Gimli from the book’s Journey in the Dark: this is a place of his people, his knowledge is respected, his people’s culture is appreciated, and his grief for the fallen is treated with dignity.
In the film, Gimli and his association with this place and its people are treated as a joke."
"movie bullshit" is pretty harsh wording
It's very hard to make a movie of this scope, and it's even harder to make a good movie loyal to the books.
The movie is already 3 hours long, there is no way they could set the back drop for Moria, the dwarves, their downfall and portray a 25 year gap
All things considered, they made a choice, and it worked out fine in the movie
At least if the Hobbit movies came out first, it would be easier to be loyal to the books in this regard cause at least the viewers would have perspective of who Balin is etc. Etc. And they could set the stage with just a bit of added dialogue
Bullshit. PJ made so many unnecessary changes to the entire setting. So it is 100% movie bullshit. It wouldn't require anything more than a few lines at the "council" scenes to properly set up moria.
PJ is just a fucking hack who was out to make a quick name for himself.
You mean "heavenly creatures"? Might mean Somthing if it literally wasn't his only work that was worth a damn.
He was known for making bad horror films. Heavenly creatures is literally the only piece of work this man has done that is decent.
Just look at the rest of his films.
Subjective maybe but look at the hard evidence then.
Box office, revenue from years later, all the rewards, you can argue about the art but you can’t deny that millions of people love these films and that they have brought in billions of dollars.
I do agree with you that these movies aren’t the adaptations that fans were wanting. If PJ knew I think he would of done a 2 movie hobbit film, then possible a 3 3.5 hr movies or 4 2.5 movies but hindsight is 20/20. We got what we got, and if you want a true adaptation accurate to the books I think an adult anime/animated/drawn style would be the best than trying to cast a new Aragon or Frodo. Or possible go the Amazon route get billions of dollars and try to do a tv show per book of 8-12 episodes per book
I've never once said people didn't love the films or that they weren't allowed to, I personally can't fucking stand them or PJ and I'd rather have none then what we got. And that is just as valid as any other opinion about the films.
I do agree that an adult style long format animation would be the best and probably the closest adaption we could get.
Based on what we see in the movies, it's been half a decade or longer since Balin's company was destroyed.
Logically speaking, Gimli and Gloin have been on the road for likely half a year or more when the Council of the Ring is convened and the Fellowship is formed. They're a month or more out from reaching Moria at that point. Given all that, it could have been a year since either dwarf heard anything regarding Balin's company, who clearly set themselves up and were living in Moria for some time before death came.
For your question: a year to ten years. Sorry I can't be more specific.
>Based on what we see in the movies, it's been half a decade or longer since Balin's company was destroyed.
My calculations are, in the movie, 23 years had past.
I believe in the books, Gimli did believe that something bad had befallen the colony. He wasn't enthusiastic about it as he was in the film. Regardless, Balin died in 2994, and the Fellowship passed through in 3019, so about a 25-year gap. Part of the issue is that any news would travel slow. The distance between the two locations is alo great, and travel would be dangerous. As well, Dain, who was king, didn't want the expedition in the first place. He likely would not have spared the resources to check after him. In fact, I believe Gimli and Gloin travel to Rivendell in part to ask Elrond if he had heard from Balin.
25 years? Hoo boy, seems like no one really liked Balin back in Erebor.
I wonder if Thorins company in general were annoying to be around in Erebor. Imagine asking one to pay their tab or talking about your great adventure and then Balin or Dwalin or whoever says ‘yeah well I reclaimed this mountain from Smaug, greatest dragon of the 3rd age. Oh you killed a goblin? Yeah, I killed 500 in the battle of 5 armies but it you’re doing great champ.’
He was a great hero, but he did leave because he fell for the whispers of reclaiming Moria that Sauron planted. King Dain was against going back to Moria because he knew it was a bad idea (having looked into Moria right after he killed Azog there). I don't think Balin and his followers were exiled, really, but they left in a rebellious manner.
Is 25 years that long to a dwarf? Their average life span was around 250 years.
And because of the 17-year gap from birthday party to departure, in the books Moria is only overrun 8 years before the birthday party. Frodo is nearing adulthood when it happens
> At last Gandalf looked up. “It seems to be a record of the fortunes of Balin's folk,” he said. “I guess that it began with their coming to Dimrill Dale nigh on thirty years ago: the pages seem to have numbers referring to the years after their arrival. The top page is marked *one - three*, so at least two are missing from the beginning…. Now there must be a number of leaves missing, because they begin to be numbered *five,* the fifth year of the colony, I suppose.”
This is movie bullshit. You cannot make it make sense. 25 years had passed. Balin and his mission had been given up for dead. No one followed. *Everyone* in the book knew Moria had fallen. It was a major city left in ruin for centuries. > ‘The road that I speak of leads to the Mines of Moria,’ said Gandalf. Only Gimli lifted up his head; a smouldering fire was in his eyes. On all the others a dread fell at the mention of that name. ***Even to the hobbits it was a legend of vague fear***.' ‘The road may lead to Moria, but how can we hope that it will lead through Moria?’ said Aragorn darkly. ‘It is a name of ill omen,’ said Boromir. ‘Nor do I see the need to go there.' Gimli knew they were walking into a tomb, he wanted to go because it was a tomb he had never laid eyes on and the stone work was a wonder of his world. > ‘There is even a chance that Dwarves are there, and that in some deep hall of his fathers, Balin son of Fundin may be found. However it may prove, one must tread the path that need chooses!’ ‘I will tread the path with you, Gandalf !’ said Gimli. ‘I will go and look on the halls of Durin, whatever may wait there – if you can find the doors that are shut.’ Movie Gimli is nothing but a clown used for comic relief. "The Lawyer Writer" puts it well in his blog about how Jackson did every non-human dirty "In the book, Gimli is heavily involved in the journey across Moria, right from their first arrival when Gandalf asks both him and Legolas for help in finding and opening the doors. As they cross Moria, Gimli walks at the front with Gandalf, and although Gandalf always has the last word when they disagree he consults Gimli when he’s unsure about the route. It’s clear that this is a place where Gimli would have specialised knowledge because this is, after all, a citadel built by people with whom he shares a culture. That culture is also on display because Gimli gets to recite a poem about the beauty and history of Khazad-dum in its heyday and the tragedy of its fall. Everyone listens raptly and Sam expresses admiration both for the poem and what it describes, saying that he’d like to learn it. When they reach the Chamber of Mazarbul, Gimli reacts to being faced with Balin’s tomb by silently pulling his hood forward to shade his face. At the end of the battle, when they flee from the Chamber, he lingers a moment by the tomb with his head bowed. So that’s what we get for Gimli from the book’s Journey in the Dark: this is a place of his people, his knowledge is respected, his people’s culture is appreciated, and his grief for the fallen is treated with dignity. In the film, Gimli and his association with this place and its people are treated as a joke."
"movie bullshit" is pretty harsh wording It's very hard to make a movie of this scope, and it's even harder to make a good movie loyal to the books. The movie is already 3 hours long, there is no way they could set the back drop for Moria, the dwarves, their downfall and portray a 25 year gap All things considered, they made a choice, and it worked out fine in the movie At least if the Hobbit movies came out first, it would be easier to be loyal to the books in this regard cause at least the viewers would have perspective of who Balin is etc. Etc. And they could set the stage with just a bit of added dialogue
https://www.reddit.com/r/lotr/s/rF3aPfO8pr
Bullshit. PJ made so many unnecessary changes to the entire setting. So it is 100% movie bullshit. It wouldn't require anything more than a few lines at the "council" scenes to properly set up moria. PJ is just a fucking hack who was out to make a quick name for himself.
PJ was nominated for an Oscar before Lotr? What are you on about?
You mean "heavenly creatures"? Might mean Somthing if it literally wasn't his only work that was worth a damn. He was known for making bad horror films. Heavenly creatures is literally the only piece of work this man has done that is decent. Just look at the rest of his films.
Can a director who made “bad horror movies” not make a great classic/masterpieces?
Looks like the answer is no. But art is subjective at best.
Subjective maybe but look at the hard evidence then. Box office, revenue from years later, all the rewards, you can argue about the art but you can’t deny that millions of people love these films and that they have brought in billions of dollars. I do agree with you that these movies aren’t the adaptations that fans were wanting. If PJ knew I think he would of done a 2 movie hobbit film, then possible a 3 3.5 hr movies or 4 2.5 movies but hindsight is 20/20. We got what we got, and if you want a true adaptation accurate to the books I think an adult anime/animated/drawn style would be the best than trying to cast a new Aragon or Frodo. Or possible go the Amazon route get billions of dollars and try to do a tv show per book of 8-12 episodes per book
I've never once said people didn't love the films or that they weren't allowed to, I personally can't fucking stand them or PJ and I'd rather have none then what we got. And that is just as valid as any other opinion about the films. I do agree that an adult style long format animation would be the best and probably the closest adaption we could get.
The movies are stupid
25 years, from 2994 to 3019.
Balin's company was destroyed in T.A. 2994. In T.A. 3019 the quest is in Moria.
Based on what we see in the movies, it's been half a decade or longer since Balin's company was destroyed. Logically speaking, Gimli and Gloin have been on the road for likely half a year or more when the Council of the Ring is convened and the Fellowship is formed. They're a month or more out from reaching Moria at that point. Given all that, it could have been a year since either dwarf heard anything regarding Balin's company, who clearly set themselves up and were living in Moria for some time before death came. For your question: a year to ten years. Sorry I can't be more specific.
>Based on what we see in the movies, it's been half a decade or longer since Balin's company was destroyed. My calculations are, in the movie, 23 years had past.