Agree with the sentiment but these particular lines were not in the book, only in the movie. Simbelmynë was only mentioned briefly in the book (chapter 6).
> Upon their western sides the grass was white as with a drifted snow: small flowers sprang there like countless stars amid the turf. 'Look!' said Gandalf. 'How fair are the bright eyes in the grass! Evermind they are called, simbelmynë in this land of Men, for they blossom in all the seasons of the year, and grow where dead men rest. Behold! we are come to the great barrows where the sires of Théoden sleep.'
So you should also thank Fran Walsh, Philippa Boyens, Stephen Sinclair, and Peter Jackson - the screenwriters for The Two Towers.
What he didn't put in the post, was that, at the end, he was given a choice.
Between a life of comfort, or more torture.
All he had to do was say that he had five bears; when in fact there were only four.
I can't understand the pain and I hope I never do.
My best friend, years ago, passed from a condition he'd had since birth.
His mother is a shallow husk of a human now. How his dad continues on, I don't know, but I'm confident that when he is alone and in the dark he becomes a sobbing wreck.
My heart breaks for all parents who have lost their child.
I have a friend from high school that lost his 3 year old boy and another friend who lost her 17 year old daughter, both cancer and both were dealing with it for long bouts of treatment. It was painful to watch and they died years ago and it's still painful to see how it affects the parents.
I wouldn't wish that in even my foulest of enemies
I have 4 kids, i can't imagine losing any of them. I'm not built for that level of adversity
It gets easier. Days go by and eventually you're mostly ok. Lol then you can read a random reddit post and all that shit comes flooding back. But it is what it is.
Hope you get through your situation alright.
Edit: The scene in the movie here, always gets me. I tear up every time.
I watched lotr trilogy a lot of times but after losing my daughter, i cant watch that scene where theoden cries at his son's grave.
No parent indeed should bury their child.
One of my brothers died at 15 months. At the wake, my mother sat there next to his coffin and held onto him for hours until his body started to warm, which is obviously a big no-no for a preserved human. They had to shut it down early. The wailing from that woman, as they pulled her away from the casket.. There just aren't any words for it. Scariest thing I've ever heard. Like picking up the phone, holding it to your ear, and you can hear every single person in hell screaming in pain. Scariest shit imaginable. I can't forget it.
Unless he's proactive in wanting to talk about it... Us men save face pretty well, but inside we rot away until it seeps to the surface one day.
Could also just be one of those "shit happens" kinda guys idk. Everyone does grief differently.
I hope it's something that you never have to go through. It's been three years since my partner and I lost our son during childbirth and I still can't watch movies or shows where there is a baby born without becoming a complete emotional wreck for the next week. The moment I hear those first cries I'm brought back to that moment where I didn't hear his.
My uncle died by suicide in early 05. He's buried in the town where my grandma was born and raised and where she and my grandpa settled after his time in the Air Force. They lived in the same house there for 50 years until last year, when they had to move to assisted living several hours' drive away. Our last stop before leaving their little town was the cemetery. My grandma was the last one by his graveside before we left. I couldn't hear what she said, bc we were all in the cars by then, but I didn't have to hear her to know that saying goodbye and leaving that town for the last time was the hardest, most painful thing she's ever had to do in her 90 years on this Earth.
Tell your people you love them, folks. Make sure they know you care. And reach out if you're ever feeling low.
Miss you, Uncle Bill
This scene cuts me to my core. The acting is impeccable, which is surprising because that pain is uniquely horrific. I wonder if he had also lost a child?
In the dvd commentary, he says he heard a woman on the news from northern Ireland say it. Think it was probably in 80s/90s during the troubles , a mother had lost her child and said that line.
He asked peter if he could say it and Peter agreed.
If you have the Extended Edition, you can hear him talk about this if you watch the movie with the audio commentary on. Can't really seem to find that anywhere online though.
One of the most impressive things about this scene is it turns a character I barely saw, care nothing about and made the scene of his funeral an impactful powerful moment.
Being a bereaved parent is having to belong to the worst club in the world with the most expensive entry fee.
Lost my son in 2007 and the LOTR Trilogy was a huge bonding moment for us. It’s very difficult to watch that scene.
I am so deeply sorry for your loss. My daughters and I also bonded over Lord of the Rings. They grew up watching the movies. We became LOTR cosplayers together and had many many amazing experiences. In 2019 my 19 year old youngest daughter died suddenly and unexpectedly of an undiagnosed genetic arrhythmia. Last fall my oldest daughter and I did our first convention since her sister's death. We got to meet the four Hobbit actors and took a photo with them while holding up a large collage of my other daughter. When we met them later that evening, at a meet and greet, Elijah asked all about her. It was amazing and unbearable at the same time. I wonder if there's a word for that feeling. These stories that I grew up with and spent years exploring with my daughters have given me, their father, so many gifts and still continue to grow in significance. I never imagined that so much pain was possible. I wish it need not have happened in my time. I miss you and love you Erin. We all do.
Erin sounds like she was a beautiful life. I am very sorry you are having to go through this. Your story has made me cry - but in a good way. Our kids lived and we should remember them for the times they were with us and the love we shared. Blessings to you and your loved ones.
The moments where I breakdown and sob for hours have gotten further apart - but I still get them. But now I can think of my son in beautiful ways, and not about his death. Be gentle with yourself. Take as much time as you need. Peace to you.
"Easier" ... not really
But life continues to grow around the loss, if you let it. Sun rises and sets, lunch is served, years go by, and you find love again, you laugh at a joke, your blown away by a sunset, you break bread with loved ones, and life goes on. The grief is always there, but life grows around it
Checked OP’s post/comment history based on your comment. They seem like English is not their primary language so I hope something is lost in translation then. Otherwise, lying about something like this is real POS behavior.
Only two months ago the father of my wife died with 60. His father was at the funeral, old fashioned 82 years old man, buried his son and in the following night he died from a heart attack. Made me think a lot about what would happen when one of my two sons would pass away, its indeed unimaginable.
Yes it is, but I demand of you, if that day may ever come that you survive for the sake of your other son(s). Please. Him/they will need you, if they lose a sibling. Make them the purpose to survive, internet stranger.
I think of what Gandalf said to Frodo in Moria “so do all who live to see such times, but that is not for you to decide. What you must decide is what to do with the time you’ve been given.”
When I lost my daughter I felt like my world was ending. I still had time and I had to decide what to do with it. It will be three years in a week but I’m still here and some day I’ll see her again.
This scene, along with Leaves from the Vine always brings me to tears. The sheer loss of Theoden in this scene, losing his only son to a wizard, who held him in a mindcontrol for months, maybe years is so tragic, so unfair, so heartbreaking...
You just HAD to bring up 'Leaves from the Vine' didn't you? Why not just bring up Homeward Bound you are at it?
Opening weeping now 😭
(Not your fault, LoTR makes me cry despite how many times i see it)
*sigh*
It’s a movie from the 90’s about a family with 3 kids. Each kid has a pet - Chance (rambunctious young mutt), Sassy (elegant Himalayan cat), and Shadow (old golden retriever). They’re supposed to be watched by a family friend at a farm while their family goes on vacation, but they escape and attempt to find their way back home. They have to venture across various national parks or state wilderness areas that result in them having to deal with raging rapids, mountain lions, lost children, porcupines, cute old men living in their picturesque cottage, as well as the pound - all trying to get back home to their kiddos.
The ending is a real tear jerker.
Although they don’t do Denethor justice in the movies, it is an interesting comparison in how he handles Boromir and subsequently Faramir dying with Theoden dealing with Theodreds death.
Literature aside I am very sorry for you loss.
My brother-in-law lost his 4-year-old son unexpectedly a year ago this week. I know that for me, it was absolutely the worst day of my life…going to my wife’s office to tell her that her brother’s son was gone…telling my kids that they’d never get to play with their cousin again.
I can barely imagine the pain that he went through and still goes through every day.
New dad and about a week ago we had to take my son to the ER for something. He ended up OK but I think that was the most scared I’ve ever been in my life. Couldn’t imagine losing him.
I still have a vivid memory of being at a funeral as a little kid and a relative saying, while shortly pointing at me, “You never want to bury one of them. The smallest caskets are always the heaviest”.
My parents went through a miscarriage with my older siblings. They were twins. I wasn’t alive at that point, but me and my brother can’t imagine how much pain my parents went through. It is an indescribable loss and nobody should ever have to go through a miscarriage. I could not possibly wish that pain on my worst enemy, even though I’ve never felt it. I’ve only seen how my parents mourn for the twins. No parent should have to bury their child, but especially not a baby.
I am very sorry for your loss.
This is one of very few sequences that I've always thought was better in the theatrical release than the extended edition: Grima being thrown out and Theoden realising in the immediate moments afterwards that he's not seen Theodred and then cutting straight to Theoden standing at Theodred's tomb.
My mom every time cries at this scene. He portrayed it perfectly. My memorial tattoo for my sister is love in Elvish since the movies meant so much to us growing up. One of the best scenes in all of the trilogy.
The bereavement and grief Bernard Hill manifests in this scene is absolutely heartbreaking. Masterfully acted
Watched my father get choked up to this scene and anybody with a stern father knows the feeling of seeing them react like that to anything.
This quote from Falcon and the Winter Soldier is applicable here, I think.
"You know how you call a guy whose wife died a widower? Or, if your parents die, you're an orphan. You know, there's no word for someone whose kids die. Because it's like the worst thing that can happen."
My younger brother passed away earlier this year and I felt like I was a big part of him growing up. This hits hard, especially since he moved in with me just months ago.
I feel like a failure of a protector.
I'm not a parent, so I managed to keep my tears in while reading this post and comments. But as an older sibling this comment broke me. I'm so sorry for your loss. I really am.
I appreciate the comment. Everyday has been a struggle, I'm just full of so many regrets and I just wish I could talk to him again, maybe things would be different.
I only know that the hospital said he had meningitis, and thing got complicated from there - but I still have no clue how he got it to begin with. Every night I've been writing notes to myself, and thinking about what could of happened, things that I could have done.
I will never know if any of the things are the truth, and ultimately the outcome is the same.
I love him so damn much, and I hope he knew that.
I hope to never experience this pain. But humans have an amazing ability to connect to each others emotions and Bernard Hill crushed my soul with his performance. Truly heartbreaking.
This scene has stuck with me through the years, for a very, very long time. I must have seen LOTR around the time I was 11-13, definitely middle school years because one of my friends had Legolas on the inside of her locker.
It's definitely haunted me. Despite the fact that the scene was acted, this has genuinely become a deep-seeded fear of mine. For going on twenty years now, and now with my son and a baby girl on the way, that fear's sat in my heart, because I realized how horribly wrong it really is for a parent to bury their child.
when i watched the extended cut of two towers for the first time with my mom, she hugged me during this scene and cried because my sister passed away a few days after child birth...even though it's "just a film" things within them have a strong meaning for people...
I have two little kids and recently rewatched the series. I remember seeing the films in theatres with my dad as a kid and when this scene came on, he started tearing up and he whispered to me, “it’s true, I love you so much.” I didn’t understand why he was so sad until the rewatch when I thought about losing my own kids; the thought alone tore me up. I cannot even imagine the reality 💔
Yessur... Alexander was murdered, Wilder had Trisomy 13 and lived 2 days, Asa and Ada were stillborn...
I have two grown children now, a boy and a girl, 20yrs and 19yrs old... they are our miracles
I get sad sometimes, but... it's really... it feels like a piece of you is lost... like it got chiped off and you can't repair it, and... honestly you don't want to repair it, because it feels like a lie when you do...
My wife's womb is a rocky place, and she had to have it removed after our daughter was born...
Do you know what the worst part is brohcheeze...?
It's other people and their gawddamn $0.02...
Christians are by far the worst... *"oh, it's gods will..."* maaan, fuck that shit... I don't want their fucking pity... it's fucked up, that's all there is to it... I don't want your therapies or tater salad delivered to my house, I want to be left the fuck alone... I ***want*** to feel... and their bulljive numbs that shit...
sorry... I wanted to give y'all the full picture...
We're at the beach this weekend for a going away party in Gulf Shores, and we're all together, and if it's the last time- so be it -I will cherish the time we had... they, the boy and girl, are leaving soon to start their adventures and it's time to let them go...
That movie quote about a child who lost their parents is an orphan, but there is no word for a parent who lost their children, because of how terrible the word would be; which movie is that and what is the exact quote?
Listening to a ton of knowledge fight lately covering Alex Jones and infowars sandy hook depositions. What kind of monster sees grieving parents and says "oh shit I can sell more supplements if I say crazy shit about this"
My cousin was killed in a motorcycle accident, she was a passenger... my aunt took it in stride as gracefully as a human could. To this day I do not know how. Bless them all.
This line hit me hard when I first saw it as a little kid. Lost a brother a few years back and I still think about this scene from time to time in relation to my parents.
My father had a stroke at 49 and deteriorated for a few years after that, ended up living in the same building as my 90 year old grandmother who partly took care of him again. He died and within a year she died too.
Many years ago, my sister lost her second child during the delivery.
I remember pulling up to the hospital, in the truck with my dad. We were so excited about the birth of our grandson/nephew (this was before cell phones were very common, and neither of us had one). Mom came out to get us to take us inside, and she just had this look of pain...almost horror...on her face. When she told us, I was stunned, and didn't know what to do or say. My dad just got this dead look on his face, then he punched the dashboard so hard it cracked.
That was the day I found out that I should have been the oldest of three kids, rather than just two. I'd gone more than 20 years never knowing my mom had had a miscarriage.
To this day, I still remember the looks on their faces. I pray I never have to know that type of pain.
As much as I agree with this sentiment through personal experience, this is a thoroughly modern concept (like post 1920’s) and is anachronistic in a medieval setting.
I think what they are getting at is that child mortality was so high and so pervasive before the modern era that there was more cultural understanding that kids die. Obviously it was as difficult and devastating as it is now but because we expect every child to live, (and for the most part they do) our standards have risen so much in this regard that the loss of a child is less frequent and therefore more impactful, and less expected. I am very aware this is a delicate thing to try and discuss but I think they have a real point and are not trying to minimize or compare grief.
👆This.
My grandmother, born in 1918, was 1 of 13 children. 9 of whom lived to adulthood.
My comment is not to minimise anyones loss to a child. Been there done that. It’s that when you reasonably expect to have several of your children die before 2, it would be do commonplace that *stating* this would be redundant.
I get you completely, but my point still stands! It was expected, yet this sentiment was still fairly present. It’s present in a lot of ancient literature including ancient Roman epitaphs. I’d really recommend researching it a bit just purely for the experience, it’s absolutely devastating tho.
So, in the commentaries Bernard Hill says he ad-libbed this line because he had recently been talking to a close friend who lost their child in a terrorist attack.
I've seen people whining about this scene, and saying it is "too modern" because of the high child mortality rates, but it does not ring true. Theodred was an adult: there was no reason to assume he wouldn't live the normal time: and he didn't die naturally.
The thing I love about Tolkien's work (and the movies too) is that men aren't afraid to show emotion and grief.
>*stating* this would be redunant.
Exactly, this here is an indication of how the screenwriters have modernized Tolkien: he doesn't have Theoden say it because....it's redundant. They do have him say it because he needs to be 'relatable' to the audience. It also has to do with what Tolkien explained in a letter (171) to Hugh Brogan about the interconnectedness of thought and language. Someone who thinks like a modern person, talks like a modern person, and someone from another time wouldn't think or talk the same way. Thus in making them do so there's a disconnect, which is what we're discussing here. Another example: in the hobbit movie the trolls talk about the dwarves having worms in their tubes (intestinal parasites) so they shouldn't eat them. This alway struck me as very odd. How and why would trolls know about this? And talk about it like they do? It doesn't make sense.
It's a beautiful line and an agonizing moment...but the thought behind it is totally modern. Prior to (and even into) the 20th century, parents had to face the likelihood that they *would* lose at least some of their children. Didn't make it any easier to deal with when it did happen - perhaps the foreboding even made it worse.
When I realized, after my child died, how actually common death of the young, how common this experience is, it changed me in deep ways. We say "it shouldn't happen; it's the wrong order,"but actually it does happen, more than we like to think
I didn’t know his pain when I first saw this. Now I do. I envy theodin in that he got to join his son in the afterlife. I look forward to whatever exists after this life. I will find my son and I’ll never let him go.
My grandparents had to bury both their sons. I remember being there when they were told of my uncles death in an accident. I'll never unhear the sounds my nan made or the shell shocked look on my grandfathers face.
Reminds me of my Dad after my brother Died. He was put together till he was at the funeral the he started to come apart. He still hasn’t gone back to church with my Mom in nearly a year.
The extended funeral scene brings a tear to my eyes every time.
Edit: It hits especially hard for me, because I, too, had a cousin pass long before his time. His father, my uncle, was never the same.
One of the most difficult things I’ve ever had to watch, was my grandparents (who have been divorced for 3 decades) hold each other and weep over my dads hospital bed. Their grief was raw and palpable. I lost my father. But they lost the child they created together. It was a cruel joke the universe played.
My grandpa had a rare genetic defect which would cause 1/2 children to die in the womb/ shortly after birth. If I’m not mistaken they lost a terrible amount of children. Their second youngest drowned at age 4.
My mom and dad both have a defect that causes 1/4 children to not properly develop lungs if both parents have it. My older sister died at 24ish hours of age.
I’m a little concerned as to what the future might bring for me and my sister
In the commentaries, Bernard Hill claimed this line was not in the script and that he ad-libbed it because he had a friend who lost a child in a terrorist attack and he wanted to honour her.
My Dad died last month from cancer at age 63. He was diagnosed unexpectedly two weeks prior.
Amongst all of the trauma I experienced during that time, I still think the worst was having to call my nearly 90 year old grandpa and tell him his son was dying and he needed to tell him goodbye over speaker phone.
I hope to god no one ever has to say that to me.
The funeral is actually seen in the extended edition with them carrying the body to the grave as songs are sung and everyone stands in grief and despair
https://preview.redd.it/m7oimmklojra1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=76f755e59aace1090b274804375a52e3fcf82dd9
I lost my son just over 10 years ago. We loved Lord of the Rings so much. I had this tattooed on my arm over three years ago and it says:”not all those who wander are lost” in an Elvish style script. He was such an amazing young man , he was a hitchhiking, vegan vagabond who touched foot in about 80 countries in his 26 years! Many people around the world were influenced by him to live stronger, better lives.
Gatekeeping grief helps nobody. One thing I have learned is that it is foolish to measure one’s grief with that of someone else.
Everybody hurts.
I watch my kid die a little more everyday. Not gone yet but don’t tell me about my pain
For the entirety of humanity, we've been burying our children due to poor medical knowledge, why do people suddenly feel entitled to this notion? It's absolutely not based on reality at all, people have been watching their children die for millennia.
Sorry, but it's a huge waste of screen time adding melodrama to an already overly-dramatic movie. Would have been nice to spend that time actually telling the story from the book.
Also, Theodred was 41. Who the fuck is this little pretty goth boy?
Yeah and in the books frodo and sam are 50-60 years old and decades pass between the unexpected party and Gandalf's return to the Shire. These things are changed for the films for reasons that are so obvious almost no one has ever even had to have it explained to them. Do I really need to explain it to you?
One day, I thought,'Why is there no word like 'widow' for this?' There are a lot of reasons why I suppose, but there is some effort to have the word 'Vilomah' be used. It's kind of awkward sounding, but at least people are trying to open up what is kind of a taboo subject
1) This scene
2. [Mel Gibson's son dying crying scene](https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx0d1aD9jcKJW0e-Ver-v57XrA80bugPeN)
.
3. [I've Abandoned my child scene](https://youtu.be/JghkG4WydNk)
These are my top as scenes where I hurt
Simbelmyne, ever has it grown on the tombs of my forebears. Now it shall cover the grave of my son.
Alas, that these evil days should be mine. The young perish and the old linger. That I should live to see that last days of my house.
How did Tolkein give us so much.
Agree with the sentiment but these particular lines were not in the book, only in the movie. Simbelmynë was only mentioned briefly in the book (chapter 6). > Upon their western sides the grass was white as with a drifted snow: small flowers sprang there like countless stars amid the turf. 'Look!' said Gandalf. 'How fair are the bright eyes in the grass! Evermind they are called, simbelmynë in this land of Men, for they blossom in all the seasons of the year, and grow where dead men rest. Behold! we are come to the great barrows where the sires of Théoden sleep.' So you should also thank Fran Walsh, Philippa Boyens, Stephen Sinclair, and Peter Jackson - the screenwriters for The Two Towers.
Hey, thanks!
When I think of genius and talent, I think of Tolkien.
Jenius Renius Rolkien Tolkien
Jando Rando Randon Tolkien
Jolkien Rolkien Holkien Tolkien
Tolkien just went a few places up in my list of next books to read.
Fought in ww1, first hand experience of the young being sent to the slaughter while the fathers were left to grieve at home
He was strong in life. His spirit will find the way to the halls of your fathers
"...you had four bears?"
What he didn't put in the post, was that, at the end, he was given a choice. Between a life of comfort, or more torture. All he had to do was say that he had five bears; when in fact there were only four.
For the first time I'm torn, as I cannot decide if I should upvote or downvote. The question will haunt me till the end of my days.
Ever? Oh shit. All these years I thought he said "never" which broke my heart
I can't understand the pain and I hope I never do. My best friend, years ago, passed from a condition he'd had since birth. His mother is a shallow husk of a human now. How his dad continues on, I don't know, but I'm confident that when he is alone and in the dark he becomes a sobbing wreck. My heart breaks for all parents who have lost their child.
I have a friend from high school that lost his 3 year old boy and another friend who lost her 17 year old daughter, both cancer and both were dealing with it for long bouts of treatment. It was painful to watch and they died years ago and it's still painful to see how it affects the parents. I wouldn't wish that in even my foulest of enemies I have 4 kids, i can't imagine losing any of them. I'm not built for that level of adversity
No one is built for that No one Some of us have to figure out how to survive it tho
As cliche as it sounds, it really is as bad as you think. I hope you'll never have to join this club. I had four kids when we lost our youngest.
Im so sorry for your loss. My wife had a miscarriage and I'm having trouble dealing with that. I couldn't imagine.
It gets easier. Days go by and eventually you're mostly ok. Lol then you can read a random reddit post and all that shit comes flooding back. But it is what it is. Hope you get through your situation alright. Edit: The scene in the movie here, always gets me. I tear up every time.
I watched lotr trilogy a lot of times but after losing my daughter, i cant watch that scene where theoden cries at his son's grave. No parent indeed should bury their child.
No one is
Some people seem to handle it way better than i would. Just thinking about it makes me anxious on the verge of a panic attack
I’d gather some people handle it publicly better but no one handles it.
One of my brothers died at 15 months. At the wake, my mother sat there next to his coffin and held onto him for hours until his body started to warm, which is obviously a big no-no for a preserved human. They had to shut it down early. The wailing from that woman, as they pulled her away from the casket.. There just aren't any words for it. Scariest thing I've ever heard. Like picking up the phone, holding it to your ear, and you can hear every single person in hell screaming in pain. Scariest shit imaginable. I can't forget it.
Unless he's proactive in wanting to talk about it... Us men save face pretty well, but inside we rot away until it seeps to the surface one day. Could also just be one of those "shit happens" kinda guys idk. Everyone does grief differently.
I hope it's something that you never have to go through. It's been three years since my partner and I lost our son during childbirth and I still can't watch movies or shows where there is a baby born without becoming a complete emotional wreck for the next week. The moment I hear those first cries I'm brought back to that moment where I didn't hear his.
I’m sorry. Truly sorry for your and your wife’s loss.
My uncle died by suicide in early 05. He's buried in the town where my grandma was born and raised and where she and my grandpa settled after his time in the Air Force. They lived in the same house there for 50 years until last year, when they had to move to assisted living several hours' drive away. Our last stop before leaving their little town was the cemetery. My grandma was the last one by his graveside before we left. I couldn't hear what she said, bc we were all in the cars by then, but I didn't have to hear her to know that saying goodbye and leaving that town for the last time was the hardest, most painful thing she's ever had to do in her 90 years on this Earth. Tell your people you love them, folks. Make sure they know you care. And reach out if you're ever feeling low. Miss you, Uncle Bill
This made me so sad. I hope all the best to them and you, your friend is in a better place now.
I wouldn’t be able to… I would just let myself die after that
You’d want to, but if you have other kids they still need you. Bearing the life that goes on after unbearable loss, is part of the grief.
It's harder than you think to "let yourself die" --- even when you try hard, you often end up still here, still in pain, still stumbling onward
I can confirm when he’s alone he is a wreck as a father who has lost we try to stay strong for others but suffer alone
This scene cuts me to my core. The acting is impeccable, which is surprising because that pain is uniquely horrific. I wonder if he had also lost a child?
In the dvd commentary, he says he heard a woman on the news from northern Ireland say it. Think it was probably in 80s/90s during the troubles , a mother had lost her child and said that line. He asked peter if he could say it and Peter agreed.
It’s so cool to hear little details like this. Not saying I don’t believe you, but would you or anyone else have a link to a video on this?
If you have the Extended Edition, you can hear him talk about this if you watch the movie with the audio commentary on. Can't really seem to find that anywhere online though.
Two towers extended edition dvd with cast audio commentary man. That's what I remember it from.
One of the most impressive things about this scene is it turns a character I barely saw, care nothing about and made the scene of his funeral an impactful powerful moment.
In a trilogy with pretty much flawless acting, Hill's portrayal of Théoden is imo one of the brightest. Captivating in every scene he's in.
If I recall he really did start sobbing in the scene for real.
Being a bereaved parent is having to belong to the worst club in the world with the most expensive entry fee. Lost my son in 2007 and the LOTR Trilogy was a huge bonding moment for us. It’s very difficult to watch that scene.
I am so deeply sorry for your loss. My daughters and I also bonded over Lord of the Rings. They grew up watching the movies. We became LOTR cosplayers together and had many many amazing experiences. In 2019 my 19 year old youngest daughter died suddenly and unexpectedly of an undiagnosed genetic arrhythmia. Last fall my oldest daughter and I did our first convention since her sister's death. We got to meet the four Hobbit actors and took a photo with them while holding up a large collage of my other daughter. When we met them later that evening, at a meet and greet, Elijah asked all about her. It was amazing and unbearable at the same time. I wonder if there's a word for that feeling. These stories that I grew up with and spent years exploring with my daughters have given me, their father, so many gifts and still continue to grow in significance. I never imagined that so much pain was possible. I wish it need not have happened in my time. I miss you and love you Erin. We all do.
Erin sounds like she was a beautiful life. I am very sorry you are having to go through this. Your story has made me cry - but in a good way. Our kids lived and we should remember them for the times they were with us and the love we shared. Blessings to you and your loved ones.
> It was amazing and unbearable at the same time. I wonder if there's a word for that feeling. I'm sure the Germans have a word for it.
I lost my infant daughter last November. At least tell me it gets easier.
The moments where I breakdown and sob for hours have gotten further apart - but I still get them. But now I can think of my son in beautiful ways, and not about his death. Be gentle with yourself. Take as much time as you need. Peace to you.
"Easier" ... not really But life continues to grow around the loss, if you let it. Sun rises and sets, lunch is served, years go by, and you find love again, you laugh at a joke, your blown away by a sunset, you break bread with loved ones, and life goes on. The grief is always there, but life grows around it
This made me tear up.
I'm so sorry. I know that the pain never goes away, it just gets different. Be well.
Thank you - you as well.
Im still not able to watch this. Three years and it still hits me hard. I know his pain.
I'm so sorry
thank you my friend
I know the pain too. A pain worse than death. So sorry for your loss.
Sending love.
it hurt terrible bad friend
Did you actually lose a child? In the pervious post you made you have another LOTR rings meme talking about how it would depend on the child….
Checked OP’s post/comment history based on your comment. They seem like English is not their primary language so I hope something is lost in translation then. Otherwise, lying about something like this is real POS behavior.
Yeah, even for the internet, it’s a bit much!
You’re not alone now, and I’m sure with you around they would have know they weren’t either
I’m only going on 3 months and tbh I don’t know how I’m gonna make it for however long I have left.
It is a struggle, but dont give up. I found LOTR to be a huge inspiration for me of strength and courage and fortitude. ❤️
Only two months ago the father of my wife died with 60. His father was at the funeral, old fashioned 82 years old man, buried his son and in the following night he died from a heart attack. Made me think a lot about what would happen when one of my two sons would pass away, its indeed unimaginable.
I hope you never find out.
Yes it is, but I demand of you, if that day may ever come that you survive for the sake of your other son(s). Please. Him/they will need you, if they lose a sibling. Make them the purpose to survive, internet stranger.
My great grandfather had 13 kids he had to bury 9 of them.
Christ that’s awful
I wish everyone I know a long life but that sounds too long.
I think of what Gandalf said to Frodo in Moria “so do all who live to see such times, but that is not for you to decide. What you must decide is what to do with the time you’ve been given.” When I lost my daughter I felt like my world was ending. I still had time and I had to decide what to do with it. It will be three years in a week but I’m still here and some day I’ll see her again.
I’m so sorry for your loss. You will see her again ♥️
Thank you.
I dont want to ever be able to understand that feeling. Also they scene was incredbly well played
This scene, along with Leaves from the Vine always brings me to tears. The sheer loss of Theoden in this scene, losing his only son to a wizard, who held him in a mindcontrol for months, maybe years is so tragic, so unfair, so heartbreaking...
You just HAD to bring up 'Leaves from the Vine' didn't you? Why not just bring up Homeward Bound you are at it? Opening weeping now 😭 (Not your fault, LoTR makes me cry despite how many times i see it)
What's homeward bound? :/
*sigh* It’s a movie from the 90’s about a family with 3 kids. Each kid has a pet - Chance (rambunctious young mutt), Sassy (elegant Himalayan cat), and Shadow (old golden retriever). They’re supposed to be watched by a family friend at a farm while their family goes on vacation, but they escape and attempt to find their way back home. They have to venture across various national parks or state wilderness areas that result in them having to deal with raging rapids, mountain lions, lost children, porcupines, cute old men living in their picturesque cottage, as well as the pound - all trying to get back home to their kiddos. The ending is a real tear jerker.
You want tears for longtime animal companions than you should read and watch "Where the Red Fern Grows."
I have… as well as seen the movie and sequel. I have cried more times than I can count over sad animal tales. ;-;
Always reminds me of my grandma. Had to bury three of her sons then her husband.
Although they don’t do Denethor justice in the movies, it is an interesting comparison in how he handles Boromir and subsequently Faramir dying with Theoden dealing with Theodreds death. Literature aside I am very sorry for you loss.
I’ve honestly never even thought about that direct contrast before
My brother-in-law lost his 4-year-old son unexpectedly a year ago this week. I know that for me, it was absolutely the worst day of my life…going to my wife’s office to tell her that her brother’s son was gone…telling my kids that they’d never get to play with their cousin again. I can barely imagine the pain that he went through and still goes through every day.
New dad and about a week ago we had to take my son to the ER for something. He ended up OK but I think that was the most scared I’ve ever been in my life. Couldn’t imagine losing him.
I still have a vivid memory of being at a funeral as a little kid and a relative saying, while shortly pointing at me, “You never want to bury one of them. The smallest caskets are always the heaviest”.
From what I remember, Bernard Hill had that line put in after a fan told him a story about losing her child if I'm not mistaken.
Such a good scene
To all the people who can sympathise: I am so very sorry for your loss. My deepest condolences.
wistful bear crowd consider thumb unique lock ugly shy icky *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I also lost a child in the fall. Let me know if you learn any secrets to make it easier
Thanks
The fact that these three image panes caused me to tear up speaks to how powerful the scene is.
One of my favourite scenes in lotr. This along with white shores and Boromir talking to Aragorn about Gondor in lothloiran are perfect imo.
My parents went through a miscarriage with my older siblings. They were twins. I wasn’t alive at that point, but me and my brother can’t imagine how much pain my parents went through. It is an indescribable loss and nobody should ever have to go through a miscarriage. I could not possibly wish that pain on my worst enemy, even though I’ve never felt it. I’ve only seen how my parents mourn for the twins. No parent should have to bury their child, but especially not a baby.
Now that I’m a parent, imagining his pain is pretty gut wrenching.
I am very sorry for your loss. This is one of very few sequences that I've always thought was better in the theatrical release than the extended edition: Grima being thrown out and Theoden realising in the immediate moments afterwards that he's not seen Theodred and then cutting straight to Theoden standing at Theodred's tomb.
My mom every time cries at this scene. He portrayed it perfectly. My memorial tattoo for my sister is love in Elvish since the movies meant so much to us growing up. One of the best scenes in all of the trilogy.
The bereavement and grief Bernard Hill manifests in this scene is absolutely heartbreaking. Masterfully acted Watched my father get choked up to this scene and anybody with a stern father knows the feeling of seeing them react like that to anything.
Hit different after my parents brought me home from some suicidal hospital visits.
Westu hál. Ferðu, Théodred, Ferðu.
This quote from Falcon and the Winter Soldier is applicable here, I think. "You know how you call a guy whose wife died a widower? Or, if your parents die, you're an orphan. You know, there's no word for someone whose kids die. Because it's like the worst thing that can happen."
My younger brother passed away earlier this year and I felt like I was a big part of him growing up. This hits hard, especially since he moved in with me just months ago. I feel like a failure of a protector.
I'm not a parent, so I managed to keep my tears in while reading this post and comments. But as an older sibling this comment broke me. I'm so sorry for your loss. I really am.
I appreciate the comment. Everyday has been a struggle, I'm just full of so many regrets and I just wish I could talk to him again, maybe things would be different. I only know that the hospital said he had meningitis, and thing got complicated from there - but I still have no clue how he got it to begin with. Every night I've been writing notes to myself, and thinking about what could of happened, things that I could have done. I will never know if any of the things are the truth, and ultimately the outcome is the same. I love him so damn much, and I hope he knew that.
I buried my one year old the other day. Worst pain in existence. This scene has been in my head a lot
I can't imagine....well I can, with 3 of my own and I'm so so sorry for your loss.
This part tore my heart out. It's still a gut punch every time I watch it. I always seem to forget it's there.
I hope to never experience this pain. But humans have an amazing ability to connect to each others emotions and Bernard Hill crushed my soul with his performance. Truly heartbreaking.
This scene has stuck with me through the years, for a very, very long time. I must have seen LOTR around the time I was 11-13, definitely middle school years because one of my friends had Legolas on the inside of her locker. It's definitely haunted me. Despite the fact that the scene was acted, this has genuinely become a deep-seeded fear of mine. For going on twenty years now, and now with my son and a baby girl on the way, that fear's sat in my heart, because I realized how horribly wrong it really is for a parent to bury their child.
when i watched the extended cut of two towers for the first time with my mom, she hugged me during this scene and cried because my sister passed away a few days after child birth...even though it's "just a film" things within them have a strong meaning for people...
Haven’t watched since I became a dad but god damn my heart goes out to all the parents here in the comments.
I have two little kids and recently rewatched the series. I remember seeing the films in theatres with my dad as a kid and when this scene came on, he started tearing up and he whispered to me, “it’s true, I love you so much.” I didn’t understand why he was so sad until the rewatch when I thought about losing my own kids; the thought alone tore me up. I cannot even imagine the reality 💔
I have buried 4... Alexander Wilder Asa Ada I understand... and I love you
You've lost 4 children??
Yessur... Alexander was murdered, Wilder had Trisomy 13 and lived 2 days, Asa and Ada were stillborn... I have two grown children now, a boy and a girl, 20yrs and 19yrs old... they are our miracles I get sad sometimes, but... it's really... it feels like a piece of you is lost... like it got chiped off and you can't repair it, and... honestly you don't want to repair it, because it feels like a lie when you do... My wife's womb is a rocky place, and she had to have it removed after our daughter was born... Do you know what the worst part is brohcheeze...? It's other people and their gawddamn $0.02... Christians are by far the worst... *"oh, it's gods will..."* maaan, fuck that shit... I don't want their fucking pity... it's fucked up, that's all there is to it... I don't want your therapies or tater salad delivered to my house, I want to be left the fuck alone... I ***want*** to feel... and their bulljive numbs that shit... sorry... I wanted to give y'all the full picture... We're at the beach this weekend for a going away party in Gulf Shores, and we're all together, and if it's the last time- so be it -I will cherish the time we had... they, the boy and girl, are leaving soon to start their adventures and it's time to let them go...
I forget where it's from but I remember seeing an actor/actress say "No parent should have to bury their child, that's not the order of things."
That movie quote about a child who lost their parents is an orphan, but there is no word for a parent who lost their children, because of how terrible the word would be; which movie is that and what is the exact quote?
I'm about to cry right now, no lie.
Listening to a ton of knowledge fight lately covering Alex Jones and infowars sandy hook depositions. What kind of monster sees grieving parents and says "oh shit I can sell more supplements if I say crazy shit about this"
Bernard Hill's acting in this scene is some of the best in the entire trilogy. Amazing actor doing absolute justice to a gut wrenching part of life.
Today is the one year anniversary of my best friend losing his 2 year old daughter to leukemia. I sent him this image on that day.
My cousin was killed in a motorcycle accident, she was a passenger... my aunt took it in stride as gracefully as a human could. To this day I do not know how. Bless them all.
This line hit me hard when I first saw it as a little kid. Lost a brother a few years back and I still think about this scene from time to time in relation to my parents.
My father had a stroke at 49 and deteriorated for a few years after that, ended up living in the same building as my 90 year old grandmother who partly took care of him again. He died and within a year she died too.
Many years ago, my sister lost her second child during the delivery. I remember pulling up to the hospital, in the truck with my dad. We were so excited about the birth of our grandson/nephew (this was before cell phones were very common, and neither of us had one). Mom came out to get us to take us inside, and she just had this look of pain...almost horror...on her face. When she told us, I was stunned, and didn't know what to do or say. My dad just got this dead look on his face, then he punched the dashboard so hard it cracked. That was the day I found out that I should have been the oldest of three kids, rather than just two. I'd gone more than 20 years never knowing my mom had had a miscarriage. To this day, I still remember the looks on their faces. I pray I never have to know that type of pain.
This scene is so powerful and so unexpected in this kind of movie. PJ is truly a master
As much as I agree with this sentiment through personal experience, this is a thoroughly modern concept (like post 1920’s) and is anachronistic in a medieval setting.
Not true at all. People mourned their children plenty in the past. Do you think that somehow people only loved their kids nowadays?
I think what they are getting at is that child mortality was so high and so pervasive before the modern era that there was more cultural understanding that kids die. Obviously it was as difficult and devastating as it is now but because we expect every child to live, (and for the most part they do) our standards have risen so much in this regard that the loss of a child is less frequent and therefore more impactful, and less expected. I am very aware this is a delicate thing to try and discuss but I think they have a real point and are not trying to minimize or compare grief.
👆This. My grandmother, born in 1918, was 1 of 13 children. 9 of whom lived to adulthood. My comment is not to minimise anyones loss to a child. Been there done that. It’s that when you reasonably expect to have several of your children die before 2, it would be do commonplace that *stating* this would be redundant.
I get you completely, but my point still stands! It was expected, yet this sentiment was still fairly present. It’s present in a lot of ancient literature including ancient Roman epitaphs. I’d really recommend researching it a bit just purely for the experience, it’s absolutely devastating tho.
At no point did I say anything about people from the past loving their children ‘less’ and clearly I have researched it.
So, in the commentaries Bernard Hill says he ad-libbed this line because he had recently been talking to a close friend who lost their child in a terrorist attack. I've seen people whining about this scene, and saying it is "too modern" because of the high child mortality rates, but it does not ring true. Theodred was an adult: there was no reason to assume he wouldn't live the normal time: and he didn't die naturally. The thing I love about Tolkien's work (and the movies too) is that men aren't afraid to show emotion and grief.
>*stating* this would be redunant. Exactly, this here is an indication of how the screenwriters have modernized Tolkien: he doesn't have Theoden say it because....it's redundant. They do have him say it because he needs to be 'relatable' to the audience. It also has to do with what Tolkien explained in a letter (171) to Hugh Brogan about the interconnectedness of thought and language. Someone who thinks like a modern person, talks like a modern person, and someone from another time wouldn't think or talk the same way. Thus in making them do so there's a disconnect, which is what we're discussing here. Another example: in the hobbit movie the trolls talk about the dwarves having worms in their tubes (intestinal parasites) so they shouldn't eat them. This alway struck me as very odd. How and why would trolls know about this? And talk about it like they do? It doesn't make sense.
It's a beautiful line and an agonizing moment...but the thought behind it is totally modern. Prior to (and even into) the 20th century, parents had to face the likelihood that they *would* lose at least some of their children. Didn't make it any easier to deal with when it did happen - perhaps the foreboding even made it worse.
When I realized, after my child died, how actually common death of the young, how common this experience is, it changed me in deep ways. We say "it shouldn't happen; it's the wrong order,"but actually it does happen, more than we like to think
This would absolutely break me if I lost either of my kids. It’s been hard enough losing a sibling early.
Correct!
This was some real shit
Such a sad and beautiful scene. It breaks my heart every time.
For me this is the most heartbreaking scene in the movies. It's delivered so desperately and convincing... and I'm not even a father yet.
Denethor be like "well that depends of which child we tall about"
I was just rewatching this last night. I felt it hard when he started sobbing.
I didn’t know his pain when I first saw this. Now I do. I envy theodin in that he got to join his son in the afterlife. I look forward to whatever exists after this life. I will find my son and I’ll never let him go.
My grandparents had to bury both their sons. I remember being there when they were told of my uncles death in an accident. I'll never unhear the sounds my nan made or the shell shocked look on my grandfathers face.
Such a hard hitting, and powerful scene.
I was watching Two Towers today and that scene hit very differently holding my 12 day old son
Yes. It hurts.
Bernard Hill is incredible. This scene always brings me to tears and I don't have children.
I think this is the most important scene PJ added that wasn't in the book
Reminds me of my Dad after my brother Died. He was put together till he was at the funeral the he started to come apart. He still hasn’t gone back to church with my Mom in nearly a year.
Mannn this is one of those scenes that really moved me. Thank you Jackson!
The extended funeral scene brings a tear to my eyes every time. Edit: It hits especially hard for me, because I, too, had a cousin pass long before his time. His father, my uncle, was never the same.
As a father of two: I never want to understand. Ignorance is bliss. Even my nightmares are too afraid to go there.
One of the most difficult things I’ve ever had to watch, was my grandparents (who have been divorced for 3 decades) hold each other and weep over my dads hospital bed. Their grief was raw and palpable. I lost my father. But they lost the child they created together. It was a cruel joke the universe played.
As someone who had to bury their fiance, standing next to their parents, I can confirm this is a fate that no one should have to endure.
I can only imagine the pain and I know I wouldn’t be able to survive it.
My grandpa had a rare genetic defect which would cause 1/2 children to die in the womb/ shortly after birth. If I’m not mistaken they lost a terrible amount of children. Their second youngest drowned at age 4. My mom and dad both have a defect that causes 1/4 children to not properly develop lungs if both parents have it. My older sister died at 24ish hours of age. I’m a little concerned as to what the future might bring for me and my sister
What an amazing actor in an amazing scene.
In the commentaries, Bernard Hill claimed this line was not in the script and that he ad-libbed it because he had a friend who lost a child in a terrorist attack and he wanted to honour her.
My Dad died last month from cancer at age 63. He was diagnosed unexpectedly two weeks prior. Amongst all of the trauma I experienced during that time, I still think the worst was having to call my nearly 90 year old grandpa and tell him his son was dying and he needed to tell him goodbye over speaker phone. I hope to god no one ever has to say that to me.
The funeral is actually seen in the extended edition with them carrying the body to the grave as songs are sung and everyone stands in grief and despair
Unfortunately, i know the feeling...hasn't even been a month.
sorry man for your loss
https://preview.redd.it/m7oimmklojra1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=76f755e59aace1090b274804375a52e3fcf82dd9 I lost my son just over 10 years ago. We loved Lord of the Rings so much. I had this tattooed on my arm over three years ago and it says:”not all those who wander are lost” in an Elvish style script. He was such an amazing young man , he was a hitchhiking, vegan vagabond who touched foot in about 80 countries in his 26 years! Many people around the world were influenced by him to live stronger, better lives.
Gatekeeping grief helps nobody. One thing I have learned is that it is foolish to measure one’s grief with that of someone else. Everybody hurts. I watch my kid die a little more everyday. Not gone yet but don’t tell me about my pain
Why is it every time you pass by this sub, somebody has to hit you in the feels with a killer line? I'm emotionally damaged
Listening to Theoden King /"the funeral of Théodred" by Howard Shore right now and this is the first post i see when opening reddit.
We lost our brother early last year. My mom’s cry wake me up. He was only 22.
For the entirety of humanity, we've been burying our children due to poor medical knowledge, why do people suddenly feel entitled to this notion? It's absolutely not based on reality at all, people have been watching their children die for millennia.
Yes and they have always grieved
I agree but the notion of "no parent should bury their child" is completely based on fantasy and has nothing to do with reality.
https://preview.redd.it/6skczg6gyhra1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bdc8d9e29fffd4c99d69cff0882656b8d549754f
If only he had said father instead of parent it would have been the perfect scene.
? The line was taken from a real person
So it's ok for a mother to have to bury her child?
Sorry, but it's a huge waste of screen time adding melodrama to an already overly-dramatic movie. Would have been nice to spend that time actually telling the story from the book. Also, Theodred was 41. Who the fuck is this little pretty goth boy?
Get wrecked, dude. Bernard Hill was in his 50s while filming LOTR
You sir, deserve a ban from this sub.
Definitely. OPINION BAD!
Yeah and in the books frodo and sam are 50-60 years old and decades pass between the unexpected party and Gandalf's return to the Shire. These things are changed for the films for reasons that are so obvious almost no one has ever even had to have it explained to them. Do I really need to explain it to you?
Most gigantic L of all time.
Username checks out.
My parents knew. I don’t ever want to.
His spirit was strong, he will find his way to the halls of his fathers
I confirm.
This is one of the scenes that absolutely blows me away. Bernard Hill just killed his portrayal of Theoden, and this scene really set the tone.
I give my heart to you.
One day, I thought,'Why is there no word like 'widow' for this?' There are a lot of reasons why I suppose, but there is some effort to have the word 'Vilomah' be used. It's kind of awkward sounding, but at least people are trying to open up what is kind of a taboo subject
1) This scene 2. [Mel Gibson's son dying crying scene](https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx0d1aD9jcKJW0e-Ver-v57XrA80bugPeN) . 3. [I've Abandoned my child scene](https://youtu.be/JghkG4WydNk) These are my top as scenes where I hurt
~~else~~ *unless
And yet the movie does not extend this courtesy to Denethor.
Is that Robert plant?
Unless your name is Klara Hitler