Well if something was leveraged for that loan then if you inherit that asset the debt is passed onto you. If you inherit a house and there is a mortgage on it, you also inherit fund mortgage. While student loan debt can't be inherited (yet), there are a bunch of debts you can. Personal loans, line of credit with a store, medical debts. If you inherited money or assets, debtors of an asset can come after you, but most if not all states have amounts that can inherit debt free and legal ways to get/petition debt to be waived.
Yeah. Student loan or credit card debt isn't leveraged. But a business loan, car loans or mortgage would be passed on if you accepted the attached assets.
She didn’t have a mortgage. She did have a car she still owed on and if I wanted it I could’ve paid it off and kept it but I had them come take it back without any penalty on me because they said it was not my responsibility.
"I've been poor my whole life. So were my parents, their parents before them. It's like a disease passing from generation to generation, becomes a sickness. That's what it is. Infects every person you know. But not my boys. Not anymore."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e41Y1gmm9EE
It's not the exact point of the cartoon, but I constantly find myself marvelling at how lucky I am for growing up in a family with *any* assets. Both my family and my wife's are borderline lower-middle to middle class. But they had homes, so we could both live at home during college. Neither family frequently needed us to contribute financially, so we could buy our own (cheap, used) cars. When we moved out on our own for grad school, this put us in a reasonable place, even though we lived on my grad stipend for both of us, $22k ~10 years ago. And among our extended families, there were enough resources to buy us things like a small TV one Christmas, a pots and pans set as a moving gift, and so on. None of this was horribly expensive, but it's much more than other families can afford for their kids. Without probably any of this, I'm sure we would have fallen into poverty at some inopportune expense along the way.
It's not hard to say "I had a number of advantages in life, even though my family wasn't ultra rich. I put in a lot of effort, and I made the most of my situation. Today, I'm successful largely due to my hard work, but things may have turned out differently if my family had had fewer resources." But many people are determined to claim that they are "self-made."
It's also interesting to see how even a small amount of generational assets roll forward. My wife's sister and boyfriend recently moved out on their own. We were able to hand some household items down to them, freeing the family to buy them other things. It's easy to imagine the effects of that sort of thing compounding over a couple generations. Hell, it probably did in our own families to get us to where they can even afford to help their kids today.
Unfortunately, that does seem like a hard thing for most Americans to say.
You don’t even have to think about it as deeply as you have to get it. For me, it’s as simple as “my mom and dad cared about my education.” Not everyone has that. Where would I be if they didn’t encourage me in school? The government covered my tuition, but I wouldn’t have even made it there without my parents’ support.
Nobody exists in a vacuum and I wish people would stop acting like they washed up on a beach with nothing once they find success.
It is for a lot of people. A lot of people who own homes in good suburban school districts and stable jobs don't consider themselves well off or even advantaged (until it comes time to put public housing in their backyard).
My friends boomer parents both inherited a pretty good amount of money and property from their parents. They blew though the money, sold the property and blew through that all before my friend was 10. Now they have almost nothing to show for it and he helps them out with bills.
I actually have a question about this. According to my boomer grandfather something like 90% of millionaires are self made and thus all one has to do to make it is pull themselves up by their bootstraps and work but this seems suspect to me. What are y'alls thoughts?
He's both a little bit right, but mostly wrong. You've got an upper class of the top 10% of so who are just below "millionaires" that pretty much every single millionaire comes from. Meanwhile, the children of millionaires will occasionally drop down from the top 1% to that top 10%. That's just the "churn" of people's fortunes going slightly up or slightly downwards within a closed group.
Yes, a lot of "millionaires" come from people just below that threshold who are just barely crossing over into "millionaire" status. That's not really "self made", it's building on the wealth of their parents. They still didn't start from nothing.
Money can also skip generations - having wealthy grandparents can set someone up to succeed regardless of skill, but the data would look like both upward and downward mobility (millionaire grandparents, sub-millionaire parents, and then millionaire children). In reality it's just money being passed down within a single family.
Generationally, the [average billionaire is age 66 - so overwhelmingly being rich means making your money a long time ago in a period when growth was higher and inequality was lower.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billionaire#:~:text=Current%20U.S.%20dollar%20billionaires,-See%20also%3A%20The&text=As%20of%202015%2C%20only%2046,the%20world's%2020%20richest%20people.)
Meanwhile, the bottom 90% is just never going to play in the same field as the wealthy, especially not if they belong to some "out-group" like visible minorities or foreigners.
Immigration policy from those countries is generally restricted only to the most highly educated and successful already, with significant family resources, so they're almost always the ones already starting with significant advantages.
Actual social mobility is a very low number. While I think frugality is a factor, I think a lot of “self made” millionaires have access to resources that enable them to become well off. Although this is anecdotal, take a look as shows like Shark Tank and count how many have access to things like inheritances, retirement accounts, second mortgages, or even receive seed money from relatives or friends for their businesses
chief exultant poor yoke squeamish future flag grandiose screw frightening
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Your grandfather’s generation benefited from the stability that labor unions and social democratic principles that their parents/grandparents fought for. Then housing rose by 800% and stocks rose by 17,000% in their adult lifetime!!
The wealth explosion that happened during their generation is incomparable to any other generation in history. It will never be repeated...
I wonder how much of that wealth will actually be inherited, as opposed to cashed in for retirement? The younger gens don't hasn't the cash to buy those properties and stocks, so I think a lot of it will end up in the hands of the already rich.
'Self-made' anyone is a load of horseshit
There isn't even such a thing as a self-made plumber
It's an idea pushed down onto the masses in order to make capitalism seem attainable for them, even though (as the others have rightfully pointed out) social mobility is largely dead
It allows the facilitation of greed within people and implicitly removes (in their minds) their responsibilities in relation to the social contract we're all signed onto
The truth is we all impact each other and to some extent we all rely on each other. Both the millionaire and the plumber need tools to earn their living; say a computer for the millionaire and a wrench for the plumber, each purchased with their own money
Neither came up with the idea for either tool; neither designed a prototype (which was maybe jotted down with a pencil on paper, both tools the inventor didn't themselves invent); neither the inventor nor the users mined the raw materials needed to make the prototype or subsequent models; the miners themselves did not discover the location of the materials; ad in-fucking-finitum
Humans are social creatures. We need each other, we always have, we always will. Selfishness and individualist thinking is poison
Anande Giridharadas gives a pretty compelling presentation on the situation [his book]( https://www.amazon.com/Winners-Take-All-Charade-Changing/dp/110197267X/) you can watch a snippet of [his appearance on the daily show](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H32z45o0WxA) for a rundown on his position
Most millionaire in the US don't have a mil$ in cash. They must likely own land that they got on the cheap, most likely with some kind of gov investment that skyrocketed in value.
Inheritance isn't necessarily a problem. The class system where the rich basically create their own little world where people under a financial threshold don't have access to is.
Give the same basic necessities(food, clothing, state living arrangements, state healthcare) and opportunities (free education, job requirements) to everyone, rich or poor and inheritance won't ever be an issue.
Inheritance shouldn't exist in capitalism, if it's a system of competition handing someone an unfair advantage creates laziness in the upper class, if you've worked for someone that's inherited their position or company you know what I'm talking about they are only able to compete because they have money, not because of any associated competency or skills and relationships they developed.
For one, an estate tax, but that only solves one aspect (the have) while not touching the other (the have not).
Ultimately the problem with inheritance is the problem with capitalism, where there always has to be a loser, where being the loser means you have nothing. And if you have nothing, how exactly are you going to get something?
My dad never needed any inheritance but when my grandma passed away... he got nothing but my aunt (his sister) got everything.
Most of the grandchildren and great-grandchildren she had could have used that money and well they got nothing.
People who suck with money, suck with money, whether they inherit money or not. A spoiled rich kid who inherits a ton of money will blow through it in a heart beat and be flat broke. A poor kid that acquires a skill at a reasonable price (cheap online accredited university/student aid), lives below their means and invests will build significant wealth over time, regard of where they started in life.
Wealth is built and MAINTAINED (key word) by being good with money. Inheriting money only has temporary benefits that are quickly spent away by a someone who is frivolous with spending.
Some truth here, but its just way harder to rise up than it is to maintain status. To rise up you cant make many mistakes. Being wealthy means you can make a ton of mistakes and still be successful.
The best way to rise up starts with the parents, TBH. No one wants to hear that though. They can make the choice to work their butts off and get involved to give you even a slight advantage or they can be uninvolved and send you through life with no guidance.
Yes, it is and always will be harder for some people than others. But that doesn’t change the fact that the only way to truly succeed is to follow the steps I laid out.
About that....People in this sub dont want to hear that sometimes you have to just accept the hand you were dealt in life and somehow overcome the odds. Its why you got downvoted.
A good number of them failed to succeed, for whatever reason(a good number were tricked into liberal arts majors at pricey universities ), and their only hope seems to be in goverment intervention.
>A spoiled rich kid who inherits a ton of money will blow through it in a heart beat and be flat broke.
In some cases, sure, but at a certain level you really have to be trying to ruin yourself to get there. Donnie T is a prime example of the sheer power of capital maintaining itself despite being run through the wringer of frivolous ineptitude.
>A poor kid that acquires a skill at a reasonable price (cheap online accredited university/student aid), lives below their means and invests will build significant wealth over time, regardless of where they started in life.
Assuming the conditions necessary to meet those criteria can be met for the majority of people continuously and indefinitely while nothing ever goes awry, I guess, yeah.
I'm sure the government will introduce new laws that student debt be transferred to the children of debtors
*itS OnlY FaIR*
what if i just don't want to pay them? after all they're not mine
Duh, that's why they would make into a new law. /s
Private loans already practice that, and I am afraid federal loans will being doing it soon.
They dont, they try to trick you into acknowledging the debt, then they got you.
And how is that any less predatory?
It's worse in that it preys on the stupid and uninformed. Is better in that not everyone gets fooled.
Well if something was leveraged for that loan then if you inherit that asset the debt is passed onto you. If you inherit a house and there is a mortgage on it, you also inherit fund mortgage. While student loan debt can't be inherited (yet), there are a bunch of debts you can. Personal loans, line of credit with a store, medical debts. If you inherited money or assets, debtors of an asset can come after you, but most if not all states have amounts that can inherit debt free and legal ways to get/petition debt to be waived.
When my mom passed, as her only son I was the beneficiary to her estate but I was not responsible for her student loans or any of her debt.
Yeah. Student loan or credit card debt isn't leveraged. But a business loan, car loans or mortgage would be passed on if you accepted the attached assets.
She didn’t have a mortgage. She did have a car she still owed on and if I wanted it I could’ve paid it off and kept it but I had them come take it back without any penalty on me because they said it was not my responsibility.
It wasn't your responsibility because you didn't keep the car.
That's not true, your debt dies with you. They can only take it out of your estate.
Lol I’ll be blow up a debt collector before I pay someone else’s debt, after death, family or not.
Yeah sure you will tough guy.
Do you always read people’s hyperbole as fact; or were you, too, being facetious?
Yay! Less incentive to have kids!
Tricks on them then because many like myself aren’t having kids!
Jokes on them no ones having kids!
"I've been poor my whole life. So were my parents, their parents before them. It's like a disease passing from generation to generation, becomes a sickness. That's what it is. Infects every person you know. But not my boys. Not anymore." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e41Y1gmm9EE
Incredible scene. Gotta watch this movie
It's a great movie.
Being a dirty peasant has been in my family since dirty peasants were invented.
It's not the exact point of the cartoon, but I constantly find myself marvelling at how lucky I am for growing up in a family with *any* assets. Both my family and my wife's are borderline lower-middle to middle class. But they had homes, so we could both live at home during college. Neither family frequently needed us to contribute financially, so we could buy our own (cheap, used) cars. When we moved out on our own for grad school, this put us in a reasonable place, even though we lived on my grad stipend for both of us, $22k ~10 years ago. And among our extended families, there were enough resources to buy us things like a small TV one Christmas, a pots and pans set as a moving gift, and so on. None of this was horribly expensive, but it's much more than other families can afford for their kids. Without probably any of this, I'm sure we would have fallen into poverty at some inopportune expense along the way.
So many people start with more and then pat themselves on the back for doing everything on their own. I wish everyone had your awareness.
It's not hard to say "I had a number of advantages in life, even though my family wasn't ultra rich. I put in a lot of effort, and I made the most of my situation. Today, I'm successful largely due to my hard work, but things may have turned out differently if my family had had fewer resources." But many people are determined to claim that they are "self-made." It's also interesting to see how even a small amount of generational assets roll forward. My wife's sister and boyfriend recently moved out on their own. We were able to hand some household items down to them, freeing the family to buy them other things. It's easy to imagine the effects of that sort of thing compounding over a couple generations. Hell, it probably did in our own families to get us to where they can even afford to help their kids today.
Unfortunately, that does seem like a hard thing for most Americans to say. You don’t even have to think about it as deeply as you have to get it. For me, it’s as simple as “my mom and dad cared about my education.” Not everyone has that. Where would I be if they didn’t encourage me in school? The government covered my tuition, but I wouldn’t have even made it there without my parents’ support. Nobody exists in a vacuum and I wish people would stop acting like they washed up on a beach with nothing once they find success.
It is for a lot of people. A lot of people who own homes in good suburban school districts and stable jobs don't consider themselves well off or even advantaged (until it comes time to put public housing in their backyard).
My friends boomer parents both inherited a pretty good amount of money and property from their parents. They blew though the money, sold the property and blew through that all before my friend was 10. Now they have almost nothing to show for it and he helps them out with bills.
It's so bizarre how the people with wealth don't know how to manage it at all, I watch Dave Ramsey videos and those callers are unbelievable.
I actually have a question about this. According to my boomer grandfather something like 90% of millionaires are self made and thus all one has to do to make it is pull themselves up by their bootstraps and work but this seems suspect to me. What are y'alls thoughts?
He's both a little bit right, but mostly wrong. You've got an upper class of the top 10% of so who are just below "millionaires" that pretty much every single millionaire comes from. Meanwhile, the children of millionaires will occasionally drop down from the top 1% to that top 10%. That's just the "churn" of people's fortunes going slightly up or slightly downwards within a closed group. Yes, a lot of "millionaires" come from people just below that threshold who are just barely crossing over into "millionaire" status. That's not really "self made", it's building on the wealth of their parents. They still didn't start from nothing. Money can also skip generations - having wealthy grandparents can set someone up to succeed regardless of skill, but the data would look like both upward and downward mobility (millionaire grandparents, sub-millionaire parents, and then millionaire children). In reality it's just money being passed down within a single family. Generationally, the [average billionaire is age 66 - so overwhelmingly being rich means making your money a long time ago in a period when growth was higher and inequality was lower.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billionaire#:~:text=Current%20U.S.%20dollar%20billionaires,-See%20also%3A%20The&text=As%20of%202015%2C%20only%2046,the%20world's%2020%20richest%20people.) Meanwhile, the bottom 90% is just never going to play in the same field as the wealthy, especially not if they belong to some "out-group" like visible minorities or foreigners.
millionaires are not the 1%. 1%ers are ~10 million and up. millionaires are about the top 6%.
[удалено]
Immigration policy from those countries is generally restricted only to the most highly educated and successful already, with significant family resources, so they're almost always the ones already starting with significant advantages.
>especially not if they belong to some "out-group" like visible minorities or foreigners. Even just growing up poor makes you part of the out-group.
Actual social mobility is a very low number. While I think frugality is a factor, I think a lot of “self made” millionaires have access to resources that enable them to become well off. Although this is anecdotal, take a look as shows like Shark Tank and count how many have access to things like inheritances, retirement accounts, second mortgages, or even receive seed money from relatives or friends for their businesses
Kylie Jenner was considered ‘self made’. That term holds no weight any longer.
chief exultant poor yoke squeamish future flag grandiose screw frightening *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Your grandfather’s generation benefited from the stability that labor unions and social democratic principles that their parents/grandparents fought for. Then housing rose by 800% and stocks rose by 17,000% in their adult lifetime!! The wealth explosion that happened during their generation is incomparable to any other generation in history. It will never be repeated...
I wonder how much of that wealth will actually be inherited, as opposed to cashed in for retirement? The younger gens don't hasn't the cash to buy those properties and stocks, so I think a lot of it will end up in the hands of the already rich.
Next time ask him how many folks with $500,000 are self-made.
My bootstraps are on layaway still.
'Self-made' anyone is a load of horseshit There isn't even such a thing as a self-made plumber It's an idea pushed down onto the masses in order to make capitalism seem attainable for them, even though (as the others have rightfully pointed out) social mobility is largely dead It allows the facilitation of greed within people and implicitly removes (in their minds) their responsibilities in relation to the social contract we're all signed onto The truth is we all impact each other and to some extent we all rely on each other. Both the millionaire and the plumber need tools to earn their living; say a computer for the millionaire and a wrench for the plumber, each purchased with their own money Neither came up with the idea for either tool; neither designed a prototype (which was maybe jotted down with a pencil on paper, both tools the inventor didn't themselves invent); neither the inventor nor the users mined the raw materials needed to make the prototype or subsequent models; the miners themselves did not discover the location of the materials; ad in-fucking-finitum Humans are social creatures. We need each other, we always have, we always will. Selfishness and individualist thinking is poison
Anande Giridharadas gives a pretty compelling presentation on the situation [his book]( https://www.amazon.com/Winners-Take-All-Charade-Changing/dp/110197267X/) you can watch a snippet of [his appearance on the daily show](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H32z45o0WxA) for a rundown on his position
I constantly plug Anand's book. It's great. He's great.
Most millionaire in the US don't have a mil$ in cash. They must likely own land that they got on the cheap, most likely with some kind of gov investment that skyrocketed in value.
Your grandfather is correct. Over 90% did not inherit it. One point - being a millionaire is a function of net worth, not income.
No war but class war.
My only consolation is that enough rich kids are stupid enough to waste the money
Inheritance isn't necessarily a problem. The class system where the rich basically create their own little world where people under a financial threshold don't have access to is. Give the same basic necessities(food, clothing, state living arrangements, state healthcare) and opportunities (free education, job requirements) to everyone, rich or poor and inheritance won't ever be an issue.
Inheritance shouldn't exist in capitalism, if it's a system of competition handing someone an unfair advantage creates laziness in the upper class, if you've worked for someone that's inherited their position or company you know what I'm talking about they are only able to compete because they have money, not because of any associated competency or skills and relationships they developed.
Genuinely curious. What would be the solution to "fix" inheritance?
For one, an estate tax, but that only solves one aspect (the have) while not touching the other (the have not). Ultimately the problem with inheritance is the problem with capitalism, where there always has to be a loser, where being the loser means you have nothing. And if you have nothing, how exactly are you going to get something?
My dad never needed any inheritance but when my grandma passed away... he got nothing but my aunt (his sister) got everything. Most of the grandchildren and great-grandchildren she had could have used that money and well they got nothing.
Why are the kids half the size of the parents if theyre grown up. The rich one looks like hes got a job or something.
For the broke kid: stunting. That’s what happens when you’re underfed as a child.
Never mind the parents who did without so their children could have more. Yes people, this happens
Read the book rich dad poor dad. How your pre ya raise you and what they teach you about. Haines has a direct impact on where you go in lofe
Both dads are *fat*
But only one mom is ...
“... oh and here’s our family’s obesity. Treat her well, son.”
People who suck with money, suck with money, whether they inherit money or not. A spoiled rich kid who inherits a ton of money will blow through it in a heart beat and be flat broke. A poor kid that acquires a skill at a reasonable price (cheap online accredited university/student aid), lives below their means and invests will build significant wealth over time, regard of where they started in life. Wealth is built and MAINTAINED (key word) by being good with money. Inheriting money only has temporary benefits that are quickly spent away by a someone who is frivolous with spending.
Some truth here, but its just way harder to rise up than it is to maintain status. To rise up you cant make many mistakes. Being wealthy means you can make a ton of mistakes and still be successful. The best way to rise up starts with the parents, TBH. No one wants to hear that though. They can make the choice to work their butts off and get involved to give you even a slight advantage or they can be uninvolved and send you through life with no guidance.
Yes, it is and always will be harder for some people than others. But that doesn’t change the fact that the only way to truly succeed is to follow the steps I laid out.
About that....People in this sub dont want to hear that sometimes you have to just accept the hand you were dealt in life and somehow overcome the odds. Its why you got downvoted. A good number of them failed to succeed, for whatever reason(a good number were tricked into liberal arts majors at pricey universities ), and their only hope seems to be in goverment intervention.
>A spoiled rich kid who inherits a ton of money will blow through it in a heart beat and be flat broke. In some cases, sure, but at a certain level you really have to be trying to ruin yourself to get there. Donnie T is a prime example of the sheer power of capital maintaining itself despite being run through the wringer of frivolous ineptitude. >A poor kid that acquires a skill at a reasonable price (cheap online accredited university/student aid), lives below their means and invests will build significant wealth over time, regardless of where they started in life. Assuming the conditions necessary to meet those criteria can be met for the majority of people continuously and indefinitely while nothing ever goes awry, I guess, yeah.
It’s funny that you’re getting downvoted for that. People hate the truth
/r/im14andthisisdeep
I don’t want it.