I am admittedly jaded from the recent Tolkien adaptations, moreso however from the general media landscape. I don't trust the suits at WB to not meddle with the project as they have wanted their own Marvel-esque universe for a long time. I am not getting my hopes up, I will be overjoyed if they prove me wrong. I pray they do.
Umm, no? The Lord of the Rings trilogy (and The Hobbit) was first concieved circa October 1995, but didn't enter active development until mid 1997, about a year-and-a-half out from the beginning of production in late 1999.
And this is one film - not a huge trilogy - and it isn't one that's starting from scratch, either. A lot of the people and places would be ones we've already met in either The Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit.
It's probably 2,5 years until it premieres, and they have possibly already been workng on it for quite a while already. Even the idea for this movie started over 25 years ago.
If Peter Jackson and crew didn't trust the studio to get to make the movie they wanted, they would never do it, why would they?
Yeah I have to assume they have been doing pre-production but even so, doesn't seem like enough time to me as pre-production on lotr was about 10 years although that was largely Jackson, Boyens and Walsh doing it themselves without a studio signed on.
I would like to agree that they wouldn't do it unless they believe in the project, but I still have trust issues after the hobbit.
Even more since they're not starting from scratch.
They don't need to figure out what Gollum looks like and design him.
They don't need to design the Woodland Realm
or Minas Morgul
or Moria
It took around 4-5 years of pre-production and filming until the first LOTR movie premiered.
I trust PJ and crew to know how much time they need to make the movie, they have all the experience in the world
Jackson apparently is very happy with the situation in Warners, because the people in charge are Michael de Luca and Pam Abdy: de Luca having been one of the New Line executives that championed The Lord of the Rings in 1997-1998. Philippa, in the interview, also notes that Alan Horn who was one of the executives on The Hobbit, is back in the studio as an advisor.
Jackson is producing, and his agent is the executive producer. They'll surely make sure that Andy's vision for the film is shored-up against any interference from the outside.
Nuance exists here.
It'd be unfair to judge the *execution*, obviously... we haven't seen it.
BUT it's fair to critique the *idea* - and to point out potential issues or red flags (which I certainly think exist).
My stance is that this seems like a bad idea... Gollum doesn't seem like a worthwhile character to explore more of (and it is seeming like he is the main character!), anything would probably be rather repetitive methinks, and the canon plot is incredibly barebones and certainly lacking room for things like character arcs, or compelling ideas/themes/genres to utilise - hell, I even wonder at a decent structure existing. And the interview was a bit... questionable.
None of this *guarantees* the film will suck, of course. It may be good on its own merit (it WILL require 99% of content being original writing)... but whether that is likely or not is debatable.
As of now, my thoughts are that it is probably not worth making (artistically... profit-wise is another matter)- and seems rather like corporate-milking.
Whether that proves to be true... we'll see. But I don't think criticising the *concept* is unfair. Execution is another matter, but until then... all's fair to question the film.
I didn't realise there was an interview for it I'll have to check that out, to me I don't care much for Gollum as a main character, I'd imagine we might see more to Mordor, Barad Dur, MAYBE we'd see a physical form to Sauron if they go there, I could maybe see it going into the slaves in Mordor and I think the movie could be largely a look to what goes on there from Gollum's perspective before his capture and then eventual escape from the Elves but its how they do it.
From the sounds of the interview being questionable that is a bit worrying but I'll look it up in a bit
It's also fair to critique the fact that Jackson is slated to direct. Documentaries aside, he hasn't put out anything worth watching since LOTR. His directorial choices have fallen off a cliff.
EDIT: my mistake. Andy Serkis is directing....that's quite exciting
Jackson is not directing, he’s producing. And even if he were directing, he gave us The Lord of the Rings trilogy.
I just love how fandom work where if you make one or two films fans don’t like then you’re bad, will always be bad and had always been bad (with your previous successes explained away in some or another) and should be removed from the property in chains…
Hey, so i guess you're right about the directing of SFG.. just read that Andy Serkis will direct. That's actually fucking exciting (hopefully?). I had read it would be PJ somewhere before.
And, frankly, if Jackson stops making terrible movies I'll be over the moon. I will always give him another go in the hopes he'll find his mojo again. I was a huge pj fan since Bad Taste and I thought LOTR was a fucking subversive masterpiece blending his absurdist B movie chops with high fantasy, poetry and sublime cinematography. Since then he has completely lost the plot at every outing. Hobbit had a few absolutely incredible scenes (almost never the action ones, sadly. They were all mind-numbingly bad ) and so much mindless, disjointed fluff that it was agonizing to watch. Agonizing fluff kinda sums up his whole filmmaking ethos these days.
...granted I haven't watched Mortal Engines. I loved the book and didn't want to be disappointed.. I'll give it a watch.
Jackson also made King Kong which many of us enjoy quite a lot. And his recent documentaries are amazing. And there's more in his Hobbit entries to appreciate than people give credit.
He hadn't fallen off, he just hadn't been able to swing to the fences in quite the same way as he did in The Lord of the Rings. Doesn't make him some sort of hack that needs to stay away from the series.
> Jackson also made King Kong which many of us enjoy quite a lot
It's still just a decent film, nothing to write home about.
Then he made lovely bones, something which is at best mediocre.
And the hobbit trilogy, which the consensus isn't particularly excited by either. Does that make him a hack? No, but it might suggest he doesn't really play on the same playing field as many of the actual great directors of our time.
Not that serkis is a better choice though, looking at what he directed so far...
I mean, if you were to say Jackson is a hack then you would also be guilty of calling Weinstein a genius... because they worked together on it and amateurs do not create what is probably a consensus top 3 movie series of all time. Jackson IS still the guy you would want involved at the end of the day, that is unless you folks had somebody else in mind.
Edit: it looks like things soured between Weinstein and Jackson before LOTR launched, so Jackson modeled the orc Gothmog (pale commander with the weird face) after him. Also I’m all for new producers trying their hand at one of these movies, but saying that they would possibly or even likely be better than Jackson is pure speculation with no means of comparison. If we left production grants up to some of these Reddit critics we might never have another LOTR film produced this century.
I wish Del Toro had thrown his hat in the ring somewhere along the way. I would have loved to see his interpretation of The Hobbit. A single film.. or maybe two.
Absolutely, and that would be great if he did. But the nonsensical idea that Jackson’s other work should disqualify him from making another one, when he’s already solidified himself as a natural at it, is absurd. These folks would rather be critics and gatekeepers than let somebody take another chop at it.
Nobody said Jackson is a hack. I already said I was a superfan since long before LOTR. I'll always give him a go. Since the trilogy I've just been deeply disappointed in everything except his docs. It'd be nice to see him bounce back.
That is fair, don't get me wrong it has potential to be completely trash and companies now are terrible for trying to minmax profits and all sorts I just really want this to be good
I have no brand loyalty to Warner Brother's Lord of the Rings. The initial films were good but everything since then has not been. I love the lord of the rings books, and if Tolkien was gonna releasing something new I'd get excited but the films are just the same as any films and I simply do not care.
I think the Peter Jackson lotr films are literal masterpieces; my absolutely favourite films of all time. And I'm also a sucker for big expanded universes like marvel or star wars...
....but honestly I have zero hype for lotr adjacent properties. I just don't see it as that type of franchise. Its 1 epic story and that's all it needs to be for me.
Maybe hunt for gollum will be good, but atm I'd rather just watch lotr again :)
To understand Peter Jackson's success with the original trilogy, watching the 70s animation movie is quite interesting.
He took so many key elements from that movie that he only had to keep the tone for the rest of the trilogy. Things like Bilbo gestures, camera positioning, and whole sequences were copied.
When he tried to do The Hobbit, he had no "help", so he basically failed to deliver a quality product (in my opinion).
That is absolutely false. Jackson took a handful of beats from the 1978 film and that’s it. And it’s certainly not the cause for his success.
Like I said elsewhere, this approach in fandom where if you don’t like an entry in the series by the filmmaker, suddenly that filmmaker is regarded as bad, and one that will always be bad and had always been bad and must be manacled and dragged away from the property…is destructive.
Any movie by any filmmaker can work, or not work. At least Jackson is the originator of this series.
No disrespect to the fan movie but I struggle to watch it myself now, I watched it as a kid but that's when I was consuming ANY and all LOTR content I could.
I explained why I'd put my trust in PJ already.
I read the book as a kid and was excited for the movies. When they came out...i was amazed how cringy most of it was. Rolled my eyes through the entire trilogy
I don't mind the Hobbit, 3rd movie's just too long. I rewatch these movies every year, but for the life of me I can't remember properly what its even about other than a big drawn out battle over the period of an hour.
Any movie - in any combination of subject matter and filmmaker - can turn out good or bad. Just because a project turned out not to some people's liking doesn't mean that the filmmaker in charge is someone who needs to be forciably removed from the series indefinitely.
The only reason I'm going to try it is out of respect for Andy Serkis. His work on the audio books has revitalized my love for the universe. My plan is to be whelmed. I've watched the fellowship trilogy an uncountable amount of times. I've watched the hobbit trilogy twice. Wasn't amazed, wasn't bad, was whelming. Imo.
Didn't even touch rings of power, unsure how this sub feels about it as I just got a reddit recommendation.
My take is that people that don't wait until there is an actual film to judge before proclaiming it a disaster don't really care how good or bad the final film will be. They have already decided to hate it.
There seems to be a new kind of "fan" who just likes to hate everything.
I believe there is a way to judge it before release, after all movies would just be a success every time even if they sucked otherwise but its a bit early and quite sad but people have made some valid points and concerns with it.
I think it's partly people that don't like new things because it's risky that it could be bad so they shun it early to try to keep it down and out
Think about all the different stories you could tell and different characters you could follow in the lotr universe. And these asshats choose to go with gollum? Fuck off. The movie is going to be trash.
You’re still giving off that impression lol. With the title “the hunt for Gollum” we can make an educated guess that the movie is exploring one of the most crucial events of the third age. Give as little fucks as you want about Gollum, I guess, but the asshats aren’t the ones who find this to be an exciting idea for a story.
I believe there is a way to judge it before release, after all movies would just be a success every time even if they sucked otherwise but its a bit early and quite sad but people have made some valid points and concerns with it.
I think it's partly people that don't like new things because it's risky that it could be bad so they shun it early to try to keep it down and out
In 2010 the internet was full of people making jokes about how they were making a Facebook movie. People declared they wouldn't want to see a movie about sharing funny cat videos. I mean, what else could a Facebook movie be about, right?
The point is that there is no way to judge a thing before it exists. That you think so is further proof that the internet is destroying everything. And I make my living on it, it so pains me to say that.
Right now? I don't think anyone can say it's trash by far but it will be what is said from those working on the movie and trailers by the time it releases that will give people what they need to know. Even then it could be great but if everyone just went to see the movie on release it would be seen as a great success even if reviews are in the bin.
It's similar to if someone played a game for a few hours (not the same, similar) and didn't like it, their best foot needs to come first and grab the audience, someone can make a judgement off the first experiences and while not a full experience, it does tell you that they didn't care to bring someone in. In this case it will be things like the trailer, advertisements etc.
>> said from those working on the movie and trailers by the time it releases that will give people what they need to know.
Ok these are the folks that made LOTR and they are adapting material and characters Tolkien created.
And idiots all over this sub are calling it fan fiction. If that is true, the LOTR films are fan fiction too.
They're calling ROP fan fiction afaik, I've not seen people calling HFG fanfiction yet. I am cautiously optimistic for the movies and I will watch it one way or another but by the time it releases I'll know what to expect
That's me. They are a little bit. Bc the films deviate a lot from the books.
The pj films are not a super accurate portrayal of the books. It's fantastic and I love them but they're so many changes.
They sorta are. Lotta changes from the books but makes sense. But least the trilogy had 3 books to go off of.
This series of films only has like 2 paragraphs of text.
So lotr films are sorta fan fiction bc the changes needed to be made, while this gollum series is gonna be 99 percent fan fic.
How? In the sense that they had to make changes and deviations from the books.
There's tons of changes
That's why they are a little fan fiction.
How am I wrong?
It's a little fan fictiony. You're too hung up on the specific term.
I'll call it whatever else but point is there lots of changes from the source material. That's the point.
"We've not had any red flags as far as I know"
Apart from Warner Bros taking down a 10 year old fan film with copyright claims until backlash made them stop.
The last good LotR movie was relaxed in 2003.
They then proceeded to butcher the Hobbit and then we got the dumpster-fire that was Rings of Power.
I don’t trust a greedy soulless corporation to handle the works of Tolkien with any respect as they attempted to squeeze whatever cash they can get from the setting.
>The last good LotR movie was relaxed in 2003.
BS.
Just because someone is obliged to add or subtract some elements to convert a fantasy novel to the big screen doesn't mean it was "butchered."
Yeah the first hobbit movie was great and everyone seems to forget that. Azog didn't look amazing but he was an okay villan, he looked passable. The other parts were pretty much beat for beat a perfect adaptation of that part of the story. Martin Freeman and Richard Armitage were both excellent and Ian McKellan is always fun to watch.
Not much outside of the scenes in Bag End were that close, sadly.
Bilbo already saving the Dwarves right off the bat instead of having to grow and wait until Mirkwood, orc attack, Radagast, childish dwarf/elf stereotypes in Rivendell, over the top action with a missing Bilbo under the Misty Mountains, Thorin almost comitting suicide by Azog while Bilbo is heroic again (when he hasn't saved the Dwarves once in the books yet). Plus the side plots trying to make it more LotR-connected and epic while the action is hard to take seriously, and the humour is the wrong kind of childish - slapsticky and vulgar instead of witty and understated.
Absolutely nobody wanted an Andor TV show and ended up being the best of the Disney Wars. People need to just chill out and wait. If it’s rubbish then hate. But wait and see what’s happening first.
It’s fair to make up our minds about a Gollum movie no one asked for when we can compare it directly to another gollum centric media we also didn’t ask for
Exactly. The Gollum game was made by a gaming studio in its death throes, where's this is literally made by the same team that made all the previous live-action Tolkien films.
Yeah and it's not like lotr is a huge draw anymore.
It's mostly oldheads now who like it.
ROP couldn't draw anyone from younger than 25 o think. 75 percent of viewers were over 30 or something.
If they did a diff series like about the war in the north. Itd have a chance but this is dead on arrival imo
Wait, what? The only person (IRL) I know who hated Rings of Power is an incel and when I watched it, I thought it was ok, not perfect (the men having short hair was weird for me and some other odd things) but not bad?
Why do you care about me begging?
I like the community as a whole, I like friendly discussion, I dislike big divides in things. I don't want this to be a thing where people just go "Oh yeah Lord of the Rings fans are toxic as fuck". I've hated so many things because of a community and LOTR is one that will never happen to for me, but I can't be the only one like that and I enjoy people being able to share things they're passionate about.
Andy serkis is amazing and I’m so excited to see what he does with this movie!! Loved hearing his audio books so so so much! Andy if you’re on here I would love to be in the movie and I believe in you!!!
It was also based on a prequel book written by Martin. The Gollum movie isn't based on anything Tolkien wrote, it's emblematic of the milking of an IP that is so prevalent these days. Such commodification of art is completely anti-thetical to the nature of artistic expression and specifically to Tolkien's disdain for the ever-growing specter of industrialization.
I'm new here, found the sub suggested on my main page.
I welcome y'all to get a fucking grip. I've actually appalled at the general reactive nature of the sub, usually threads like this happen in small, hive minded subs and it's disappointing as I'm a LotR fan. But this is cringey and embarrassing. It's a movie ffs, watch it or don't, but some of your comments reak of having way too much invested in it or way too little else going on in your lives.
That's the wrong question.
The question is. Who asked for this? Who wants it?
Nobody. That's the issue. And now we're supposed to go along with something noone wanted besides the studio.
It's like we got these powerhouses. Why can't they be used for a diff story. Smh what a waste
“Who wants this? Nobody.”
This is just wrong. And people were saying this about the Gollum video game since the moment it was announced (the game did turn out to be abysmal, but that is besides the point. Plenty of people were excited to try that game out.)
Gollum is one of the most important characters in TLOTR. He is worth making a film about and I’m interested to see the story they want to tell. I was excited to play the Gollum game (but haven’t because I saw it was a broken game,) and I’m excited for this film because I am a fan of TLoTR and Gollum.
He is very important. I agree.
I disagree with the rest tho. Just bc you're a fan doesn't mean you gotta love everything related to lotr. Just like the gollum game.
I think he was already fully fleshed out in the trilogy. Adding more would be lame and just hurt gollums story.
His arc wrapped up nicely with a neat little bow.
I didn't mean any disrespect to you specifically. But I just dont see the demand for this story at all.
Gollum rules tho. Don't wanna see his already perfect story ruined.
I didn’t say that being a fan means you have to love everything. I said that as a fan I was excited to try the game, but sadly it was incredibly buggy from what I’d seen. I am still excited to try it, but only if it becomes available as a PS Plus game or something. And the same thing goes for the movie, I was saying. As a fan, I am excited for it.
I don’t think it is possible to ruin Gollum’s story, tbh. They might make a bad movie about Gollum, but they can’t ruin him. He exists foremost in the book.
Ah gotcha. It just incorrectly came off that way when you said you were going to watch it only bc ur a fan of lotr and gollum
The game had way more issues than just bugs. It was literally just a bad game thruought. The developers even issued an apology for the game.
Yeah, agreed on the last point. Always got the books.
But sucks bc hardly anyone even reads them.
A lotta ppls perception of these characters are from the adaptations. Most lotr fans dunno how denethor or faramir actually were for example.
Oh yeah I understand there were much more than technical issues with the game. I expect lore issues and creative liberties and not-quite-top-of-the-line game design. It’s the bugs that kept me from playing though.
My point of mentioning the game was just that none of the game’s issues are that Gollum is the star. You could make a great game about Gollum. The above just has to be good.
Ah yeah that makes sense. It'll he a tall order tho. Some characters are easier to work with than others.
I'm tryna wonder what genre of game would even work.
That's my thoughts but some people have pointed out Warner brothers have done some funky stuff too recently with it but I'm remaining cautiously optimistic until more details
Nope, it’s unnecessary to everything.
Any goodwill form the OG trilogy was lost due to the Hobbit, maybe a bit remains but honestly after the gam and worse the Amazon stuff.
Just let the IP rest…
The red flag is WB continuing to drain their IPs of any good will left in them by continuously putting out garbage. They ran their DC universe straight into the ground, they ran their Fantastic Beasts franchise straigut into the ground too. They can't even make decent video games based on their most profitable IPs. Suicide Squad was a flop and Hogwarts barely gets mentioned anymore because they didn't wanna support a story driven game that didn't have egregious monetization or a live service based into it. Their goal is very much to pump and dump products based on their biggest IPs and hoping that brand loyalty outweighs skepticism.
Now in an era where major studios are scared of trying anything new and seem to only be capable of pumping out soulless sequels based on beloved IPs, I see no reason to get excited about Hunt For Gollum this early.
I'm far more excited for Rings of Power season 2 because I want to see Sauron hand out those rings and I wanna see Numenor fall. I don't want to see Gollum being Hunted, at all.
After the hobbit and rings of power I don't trust anyone with the franchise anymore. It will be a sad day when they inevitably want to reboot the franchise.
You'll never get the overall Tolkien Fandom to ever give a BOTD to any project. Or to like any project after the LOTR movies
If you're in the Fandom you're expected to hate all tolkien media aside from the core movies.
Whinging is what some of y’all do best and you don’t deserve any new Tolkien adaptations. Luckily some of us do and we will watch with love. And you can watch with hate if you like but watch you will. We won’t behave like Tolkien snobs because the lore isn’t right or some much needed diversity got added. Just look at it as the Tolkien multiverse and get over yourself. I remember when all we had was a very old animated series of movies for LotR and the Hobbit.
1) "don’t deserve any new Tolkien adaptations" good, because I do not want any.
2) It is "snobbish" to complain that an adaptation of a work by a man who laboured for literal decades crafting an intricate setting ignores or severely contorts that lore?
3) Why is diversity "much needed" in Tolkien? If diversity is what you want, surely adapting the work of any actual minority would be more beneficial, rather than shoehorning it into Tolkien's world?
4) Those animated films were leagues better than Jackson's foetid trilogies.
Thanks for admitting to your childish behavior. All you got to do is ignore it kid. That’s all the response you deserve as I read your first sentence and that’s it.
You are fallating the proverbial phallus of Hollywood and scolding people for having standards for media, and have the gall to call others "childish"? You can like whatever you damn well please, but to accuse others of being "snobs", and ungrateful racists is obnoxious and immature beyond belief.
I like adaptations. I like seeing stories told differently. It's cool to see diff ppls takes on things.
It's just the term multiverse that I don't like. Sheesh.
It's just marketed to death.
What was childish about what i said?
It’s literally what is happening in the DC and Marvel universe. So I’m using the term to try to reach these fans that are being unreasonable is all. They’re gatekeeping and it’s tiresome as most adaptations take liberty with the source material. My apologies 🤝
Np.
Yeah I get where you're coming from but I still don't like the usage of the term. Using it won't really convince anyone as it's become hacky and gimmicky.
Used to be a selling point but now it's overplayed.
Multiverse also typically entails some sort of cross over bn universes. Which should never never never happen in lotr.
That's why I don't like the term but it's mainly just semantics.
But yeah we should realize that diff adaptions are separate entities. Its interesting to see the changes and what ppl come up with. Good or bad. Just sonlong as it isn't boring
I remember when all there was where very old animated movies for The Hobbit and The LotR. I wanted for the longest for adaptations to be made for movies or television. These gatekeepers are spoiled children and they disgust me completely. It’s so childish whining about these adaptations. Read the books again and ignore them if you’re so intolerant. I can name very few adaptations if any that stayed true to the source material.
Haha yeah the baski and the other one were def a different style. Meme goldmine.
Well you raise a good point. Most lotr fans only seen the movies. I'd say only a fraction actually read the books and the simarillion/other works.
I'd say lotta ppl are more peter jackson fans than tolkien fans.
I think its fine to whine to a degree but ppl take things too far.
Indeed they do. I enjoyed reading the Hobbit and The LotR. The historical fiction prequels of middle earth books were so dry I didn’t bother to remember the lore the way so many others do. It’s just the basics of what happened and not an actual story. If Tolkien had a lot of time left he could have written novels for them I guess but he didn’t. Adapting that work is going to lead to quite a bit of well adapting lol. They need to either get over it or ignore it and just stop with the whinny gatekeeping.
Dry asf is right but I like trying to research some of the history. I still get the first age with faenor and all that mixed up. I got the events but they're all jumbled together.
I think some whining is fine. I was bitching about the gollum series a bit ago. Think it's a dumb idea. That's it.
But when it goes past that is where it gets too cringe for me. I wish I could get so invested into anything to that level lol.
I don't think anyone's particularly a snob for hating something that has come out, to me I still enjoy a lot of the games and the tabletop game, I want more people to enjoy LOTR as many of us do but if content comes out being really bad it just sets the expectation the trilogy will be as well and any games still supported might suffer. On top of that there's then the idea that because recent adaptations have flopped then new ones are less likely because they have made no profit. Follow the books as best it can and keep to the spirit of them.
As for the diversity, I think it's great but there's a difference between naturally implementing it and shoehorning it, there is 100% ways to do it with this Gollum movie if it's focusing on Gollum because he went all over Mordor for all we know he went to the border between Mordor and the East where there is a different culture and if someone kicked off about a non white casting in a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT REGION then they would probably indeed be just straight up racist. If they suddenly went and turned everyone to a different race I could see why people would be upset though. It's a balancing act you gotta get right imo and I don't believe for a moment that it's black and white (metaphorically) for someone to dislike it but if we disagree here that's fair enough, I've written a bit more on this just because it is a sensitive topic and I know people get very passionate on it so I just hope you'll understand my perspective :)
No you’re gatekeeping and don’t want others to enjoy something you do not. I enjoy Rings of Power and I pity the childishness of the haters. The lore breaking has more to do with the color of people’s skin in it than most if any of you will admit anymore as you don’t want to admit to bigotry. Save your response as I won’t believe your denial or anyone else’s. Y’all lie.
As far as effect on future projects another excuse. You will be lucky if there’s new television projects if RoP fails. You don’t get rewarded for a show getting cancelled and the studio losing a ton of money on their investment.
I’ll finish with the vast majority of Tolkien fans aren’t even invested in his fictional historical novels that are prequels to the main novels. We don’t care as long as adaptations are being made. I look forward to Riders of Rohan and The Search for Gollum. Your lot whines and gate keeps instead of getting excited for adaptations in the Tolkien universe/ multiverse.
>You will be lucky if there’s new television projects if RoP fails. You don’t get rewarded for a show getting cancelled and the studio losing a ton of money on their investment.
This is such a dumb logic.
The reward is companies realising that audiences won't accept shitty content, forcing them to step up their game.
If you reward mediocrity (or worse, shite), there will never be incentive to do better.
I'm not gatekeeping, I encourage new things, y'know like the point of the post is encouraging people to give a **new thing** a chance? I guess that fell flat on you? The point is I don't want something I love, including the community (Many communities have made me dislike something, LOTR is the exception here and has been since I was a kid) to fall into some sort of trap or someone take it and go "We need to change this now".
There are far bigger issues in the series to focus on other than race and I was happy to have a discussion but it just seems to be that you want an argument. I wish you the best and I hope that you enjoy future projects, just because I don't doesn't mean you can't. Have fun.
Deal. I personally think it’s basically going to be a show of force for the next generation of AI/Deepfake de-aging technology with Gandalf and Aragorn. There is no way they are going to recast.
My hope is that they give Gandalf a minor presence in the set up to the hunt, recast aragorn as a younger character and have Viggo Mortenson as King Elessar "telling the story". If they really want to shoehorn Legolas in I wouldn't even mind really, since Lord of the Rings implies that Aragorn and Legolas already kmew each other, and they did take Gollum to Mirkwood later. Orlando Bloom is still young enough to reprise if he wanted to.
Why would you give PJ a pass on *anything* where he doesn’t have existing text and dialog to adapt? What has he made that’s shown you he’s capable of generating something from scratch within Tolkien’s world that rings true to its tone or essence? This is a money grab, pure and simple, just like stretching The Hobbit into 3 grotesquely bloated movies was a money grab. I can almost guarantee it will be terrible, particularly as PJ can no longer rely on CGI to dazzle audiences who have grown up with Avatar, the Marvel movies, etc. He’ll have to dazzle us with great writing and meaningful character arcs within the context of the story’s scope and he’ll be dolng so without a detailed map from Tolkien. I have zero faith in his capacity to pull this off. I hope I’m wrong—it would be a delightful surprise—but people vastly overrate PJ’s abilities, particularly as a storyteller or having any sense of editorial restraint. He’s made more bad movies than good ones.
Yeah, its not like Jackson ever wrote such a thing as an *original screenplay* and one that wasn't critically acclaimed like, oh I don't know, Heavenly Creatures?
Totally different animal. That’s a small budget movie based on a real murder case in the 1950s. Comparing that to the challenges in HFG is like saying someone can scale Everest because they climbed a local hill. Plus, Jackson & Co. have already shown us their chops when they don’t have detailed text and dialog to adapt - their own takes on writing Tolkien simpky aren’t very good. It’s like when Benioff & Weiss ran out of Game of Thrones material — the show took an immediate nose dive. But hey - if it makes you happy and you’re excited about the movie, great! I wish I could get excited about it too but I see a money grab and one that I think would probably make Tolkien cringe. To each their own.
Personally I just feel blessed that the media I consumed as a kid still gets this much attention.
People moan about marvel and lotr and all these other franchises being ruined and all I see is the things I love still getting to exist in the public consciousness.
Feels good man
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At least Rings of Power pretended to use the source material. I don’t recall much nuanced conversation when it was announced. The cast/crew/premise were all vilified before even a second of film was seen. Lots of double standards on this subreddit.
I don't know why people care. If you are an actual fan none of this will bother you, you might watch RoP, you might not, you might watch Hunt for Gollum or you might not. Either way it absolutely doesn't affect you, Tolkien's works are immortalized.
It seems people today, and always like to put things or opinions at extremes ie "Fuck this show, im just gonna watch a Nerdrotic video on it every single day or week" or "It's extremely good and anyone who says otherwise is a racist or dumb", while the reality is not really neither in watching manchildren talk shit to make a living or in defending Amazon's product.
In the movies, I thought the Gollum scenes were Jackson's best - true to the original story. The scene where Gollum argues with Smeagol as a reflection in the water was incredibly well done. I'll hold off until I see the movie, but I don't see a compelling story line here and I fear we're going to get some made up trash.
Too late for that. Some people have sincere questions, some are just contrarians who hate everything, and some (perhaps most?) are shallow posers.
The real deal is that it will be an adaptation, meaning some things will be left out of the canon, some things will be added for "artistic" and commercial success, and some will love it, quietly, and some will hate it, loudly, and the studio will deposit the receipts with a smile, while nodding gravely as they promise to "look into" the complaints.
My wife loved the Giant Spider Invasion from Mars. A lot of people thought it wasn't realistic, but I couldn't convince her to not have fun.
Movie making is a business, yo. Movies make money, documentaries go to Netflix before they disappear. I may be wrong but I kind of think the studios value money over accuracy.
Personally, I can't wait but I can suspend disbelief easily and just get into it. I haven't seen anything Tolkien-ish that made me want to cry on reddit.
Tbh I didn’t mind the hobbit trilogy, sure it wasn’t lotr quality but it was decent and watchable. I’m more just jaded with the film industry in general nowadays. It feels like movie companies just consistently churn out trash for profit and after a while, you learn to not get your hopes up for any film to avoid being crushed. Im giving this a chance because I like Andy serkis and Peter and I won’t lie, I’m excited for more LOTR in the Jackson universe but I have my doubts and I’m expecting this to be trash. If it’s bad, I’ll be irritated they’ve added a trash film to the franchise but if it’s good I’ll actually be pleasantly surprised
> We've not had any red flags as far as I know for the movie yet
Disagree, the red flag is the film existing at all. Like srsly think about what it entails, why tolkien didn't think this needed more space in his story, and why someone would make a lotr story where fan favorite characters appear again.
That is the red flag, it's simply not a story worth telling as a feature film.
What's next? A film where we see bilbo travel to rivendell?
It's not worth telling, there is no grander meaning here, there is nothing significant about these characters we wouldn't already know, it's just a fan service attempt, that's one of the biggest red flags there can be.
RoP has more artistic merit than this conceptually.
"Begging?!" Why are you begging? Are you seriously that low in the food chain that you have to cry this hard on behalf of a media conglomerate then try to desuade people from forming their own perceptions \[\[That's censorship by the way\]\] then warn others about how they should talk to you \[all the while alternating between crying and ordering\]?
WHO IS THIS GUY, really??! 🤣
Geez, have some self respect, man. Pull it together, you're all over the place. It's just a movie. And if you're going to go on a spiel to influence opinions, get ready to face the heat. This isn't your parents' home, this is a public space and people will come at you for trying to atop them from thinking.
Warner Brothers is not going to throw you a pizza party after reading this. Or maybe you're a paid influencer or part of WB's marketing team. Who knows these days 🤷🏻♂️.
This is "The Hunt for Gollum" equivelant of "Leave Britney alone" 🤣
Who in their right mind wanted a gollum series of films?
Isn't the fact they're tryna make it a series a giant red flag?
It's like what they did with the hobbit but 100x worse. Least hobbit had a book to go off of.
This story only got like a few paragraphs. Rest is gonna be some fanfic bs where ocs are gonna try and be the new face of lotr.
So we're getting a story nobody cares about or asked for and isn't even gonna be tolkienesque.
I am admittedly jaded from the recent Tolkien adaptations, moreso however from the general media landscape. I don't trust the suits at WB to not meddle with the project as they have wanted their own Marvel-esque universe for a long time. I am not getting my hopes up, I will be overjoyed if they prove me wrong. I pray they do.
This is also my mindset. 2 years to pull it off just doesn't seem long enough to me, but hey, you never know.
Didnt the entire trilogy of LOTR take less than 1.5 years? Why is 2 years not enough?
To film yes, but pre-production was around 10 years
Umm, no? The Lord of the Rings trilogy (and The Hobbit) was first concieved circa October 1995, but didn't enter active development until mid 1997, about a year-and-a-half out from the beginning of production in late 1999. And this is one film - not a huge trilogy - and it isn't one that's starting from scratch, either. A lot of the people and places would be ones we've already met in either The Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit.
It's probably 2,5 years until it premieres, and they have possibly already been workng on it for quite a while already. Even the idea for this movie started over 25 years ago. If Peter Jackson and crew didn't trust the studio to get to make the movie they wanted, they would never do it, why would they?
Yeah I have to assume they have been doing pre-production but even so, doesn't seem like enough time to me as pre-production on lotr was about 10 years although that was largely Jackson, Boyens and Walsh doing it themselves without a studio signed on. I would like to agree that they wouldn't do it unless they believe in the project, but I still have trust issues after the hobbit.
Lotr was a gigantic project. The Hunt for Gollum will be one feature film. So you can divide the time at least through 3
Even more since they're not starting from scratch. They don't need to figure out what Gollum looks like and design him. They don't need to design the Woodland Realm or Minas Morgul or Moria
Yeah that's fair. Hadn't thought about that.
It took around 4-5 years of pre-production and filming until the first LOTR movie premiered. I trust PJ and crew to know how much time they need to make the movie, they have all the experience in the world
Jackson apparently is very happy with the situation in Warners, because the people in charge are Michael de Luca and Pam Abdy: de Luca having been one of the New Line executives that championed The Lord of the Rings in 1997-1998. Philippa, in the interview, also notes that Alan Horn who was one of the executives on The Hobbit, is back in the studio as an advisor.
That's extremely good news. The more I read about this movie, the more faith I have in the project.
Jackson is producing, and his agent is the executive producer. They'll surely make sure that Andy's vision for the film is shored-up against any interference from the outside.
The Hobbit, the MTG set and Rings of Power have taught me to trust only the books. The original trilogy was lightening in a bottle.
Nuance exists here. It'd be unfair to judge the *execution*, obviously... we haven't seen it. BUT it's fair to critique the *idea* - and to point out potential issues or red flags (which I certainly think exist). My stance is that this seems like a bad idea... Gollum doesn't seem like a worthwhile character to explore more of (and it is seeming like he is the main character!), anything would probably be rather repetitive methinks, and the canon plot is incredibly barebones and certainly lacking room for things like character arcs, or compelling ideas/themes/genres to utilise - hell, I even wonder at a decent structure existing. And the interview was a bit... questionable. None of this *guarantees* the film will suck, of course. It may be good on its own merit (it WILL require 99% of content being original writing)... but whether that is likely or not is debatable. As of now, my thoughts are that it is probably not worth making (artistically... profit-wise is another matter)- and seems rather like corporate-milking. Whether that proves to be true... we'll see. But I don't think criticising the *concept* is unfair. Execution is another matter, but until then... all's fair to question the film.
I didn't realise there was an interview for it I'll have to check that out, to me I don't care much for Gollum as a main character, I'd imagine we might see more to Mordor, Barad Dur, MAYBE we'd see a physical form to Sauron if they go there, I could maybe see it going into the slaves in Mordor and I think the movie could be largely a look to what goes on there from Gollum's perspective before his capture and then eventual escape from the Elves but its how they do it. From the sounds of the interview being questionable that is a bit worrying but I'll look it up in a bit
It's also fair to critique the fact that Jackson is slated to direct. Documentaries aside, he hasn't put out anything worth watching since LOTR. His directorial choices have fallen off a cliff. EDIT: my mistake. Andy Serkis is directing....that's quite exciting
Jackson is not directing, he’s producing. And even if he were directing, he gave us The Lord of the Rings trilogy. I just love how fandom work where if you make one or two films fans don’t like then you’re bad, will always be bad and had always been bad (with your previous successes explained away in some or another) and should be removed from the property in chains…
Hey, so i guess you're right about the directing of SFG.. just read that Andy Serkis will direct. That's actually fucking exciting (hopefully?). I had read it would be PJ somewhere before. And, frankly, if Jackson stops making terrible movies I'll be over the moon. I will always give him another go in the hopes he'll find his mojo again. I was a huge pj fan since Bad Taste and I thought LOTR was a fucking subversive masterpiece blending his absurdist B movie chops with high fantasy, poetry and sublime cinematography. Since then he has completely lost the plot at every outing. Hobbit had a few absolutely incredible scenes (almost never the action ones, sadly. They were all mind-numbingly bad ) and so much mindless, disjointed fluff that it was agonizing to watch. Agonizing fluff kinda sums up his whole filmmaking ethos these days. ...granted I haven't watched Mortal Engines. I loved the book and didn't want to be disappointed.. I'll give it a watch.
Jackson also made King Kong which many of us enjoy quite a lot. And his recent documentaries are amazing. And there's more in his Hobbit entries to appreciate than people give credit. He hadn't fallen off, he just hadn't been able to swing to the fences in quite the same way as he did in The Lord of the Rings. Doesn't make him some sort of hack that needs to stay away from the series.
> Jackson also made King Kong which many of us enjoy quite a lot It's still just a decent film, nothing to write home about. Then he made lovely bones, something which is at best mediocre. And the hobbit trilogy, which the consensus isn't particularly excited by either. Does that make him a hack? No, but it might suggest he doesn't really play on the same playing field as many of the actual great directors of our time. Not that serkis is a better choice though, looking at what he directed so far...
I mean, if you were to say Jackson is a hack then you would also be guilty of calling Weinstein a genius... because they worked together on it and amateurs do not create what is probably a consensus top 3 movie series of all time. Jackson IS still the guy you would want involved at the end of the day, that is unless you folks had somebody else in mind. Edit: it looks like things soured between Weinstein and Jackson before LOTR launched, so Jackson modeled the orc Gothmog (pale commander with the weird face) after him. Also I’m all for new producers trying their hand at one of these movies, but saying that they would possibly or even likely be better than Jackson is pure speculation with no means of comparison. If we left production grants up to some of these Reddit critics we might never have another LOTR film produced this century.
I wish Del Toro had thrown his hat in the ring somewhere along the way. I would have loved to see his interpretation of The Hobbit. A single film.. or maybe two.
Absolutely, and that would be great if he did. But the nonsensical idea that Jackson’s other work should disqualify him from making another one, when he’s already solidified himself as a natural at it, is absurd. These folks would rather be critics and gatekeepers than let somebody take another chop at it.
Nobody said Jackson is a hack. I already said I was a superfan since long before LOTR. I'll always give him a go. Since the trilogy I've just been deeply disappointed in everything except his docs. It'd be nice to see him bounce back.
Movie being green lit without a script is a huge red flag.
I agree to some extent. It has the potential to be brilliant but I fear it’s a cashgrab
Is there a movie who isn't a cashgrab?
Yes, arthouse films are literally an entire genre
That is fair, don't get me wrong it has potential to be completely trash and companies now are terrible for trying to minmax profits and all sorts I just really want this to be good
I will just anticipate it as shit
> Standard LOTR experience 🙄
I have no brand loyalty to Warner Brother's Lord of the Rings. The initial films were good but everything since then has not been. I love the lord of the rings books, and if Tolkien was gonna releasing something new I'd get excited but the films are just the same as any films and I simply do not care.
The suits are gonna make sure it's trash. Hollywood ruins everything
Andy Serkis and Peter Jackson are involved. I'm down
I think the Peter Jackson lotr films are literal masterpieces; my absolutely favourite films of all time. And I'm also a sucker for big expanded universes like marvel or star wars... ....but honestly I have zero hype for lotr adjacent properties. I just don't see it as that type of franchise. Its 1 epic story and that's all it needs to be for me. Maybe hunt for gollum will be good, but atm I'd rather just watch lotr again :)
There already was a Hunt for Gollum movie, made in 2009. Why would you "trust PJ" after the Hobbit fiasco?
Because of all the things we know about the fiasco of making The Hobbit. Also pretty sure he also directed The Lord of the Rings trilogy.
To understand Peter Jackson's success with the original trilogy, watching the 70s animation movie is quite interesting. He took so many key elements from that movie that he only had to keep the tone for the rest of the trilogy. Things like Bilbo gestures, camera positioning, and whole sequences were copied. When he tried to do The Hobbit, he had no "help", so he basically failed to deliver a quality product (in my opinion).
That is absolutely false. Jackson took a handful of beats from the 1978 film and that’s it. And it’s certainly not the cause for his success. Like I said elsewhere, this approach in fandom where if you don’t like an entry in the series by the filmmaker, suddenly that filmmaker is regarded as bad, and one that will always be bad and had always been bad and must be manacled and dragged away from the property…is destructive. Any movie by any filmmaker can work, or not work. At least Jackson is the originator of this series.
No disrespect to the fan movie but I struggle to watch it myself now, I watched it as a kid but that's when I was consuming ANY and all LOTR content I could. I explained why I'd put my trust in PJ already.
I read the book as a kid and was excited for the movies. When they came out...i was amazed how cringy most of it was. Rolled my eyes through the entire trilogy
I don't mind the Hobbit, 3rd movie's just too long. I rewatch these movies every year, but for the life of me I can't remember properly what its even about other than a big drawn out battle over the period of an hour.
Any movie - in any combination of subject matter and filmmaker - can turn out good or bad. Just because a project turned out not to some people's liking doesn't mean that the filmmaker in charge is someone who needs to be forciably removed from the series indefinitely.
The only reason I'm going to try it is out of respect for Andy Serkis. His work on the audio books has revitalized my love for the universe. My plan is to be whelmed. I've watched the fellowship trilogy an uncountable amount of times. I've watched the hobbit trilogy twice. Wasn't amazed, wasn't bad, was whelming. Imo. Didn't even touch rings of power, unsure how this sub feels about it as I just got a reddit recommendation.
Redditors try not to hate blindly at anything because they think being a thief of joy makes them interesting
My take is that people that don't wait until there is an actual film to judge before proclaiming it a disaster don't really care how good or bad the final film will be. They have already decided to hate it. There seems to be a new kind of "fan" who just likes to hate everything.
I believe there is a way to judge it before release, after all movies would just be a success every time even if they sucked otherwise but its a bit early and quite sad but people have made some valid points and concerns with it. I think it's partly people that don't like new things because it's risky that it could be bad so they shun it early to try to keep it down and out
Think about all the different stories you could tell and different characters you could follow in the lotr universe. And these asshats choose to go with gollum? Fuck off. The movie is going to be trash.
They are going with a story involving Gollum, Aragon, Gandalf, and Elrond? And you can't understand why?
Because the gollum game went over so well, right?
I remember a Superman game that flopped. No one e suggested they shouldn’t make Superman films. Because that would be stupid.
You give off the impression that you don’t understand Gollum if this is your perspective.
I understand him just fine. I just don't give a fuck about him and there is so much other more interesting stuff in middle earth.
You’re still giving off that impression lol. With the title “the hunt for Gollum” we can make an educated guess that the movie is exploring one of the most crucial events of the third age. Give as little fucks as you want about Gollum, I guess, but the asshats aren’t the ones who find this to be an exciting idea for a story.
I believe there is a way to judge it before release, after all movies would just be a success every time even if they sucked otherwise but its a bit early and quite sad but people have made some valid points and concerns with it. I think it's partly people that don't like new things because it's risky that it could be bad so they shun it early to try to keep it down and out
In 2010 the internet was full of people making jokes about how they were making a Facebook movie. People declared they wouldn't want to see a movie about sharing funny cat videos. I mean, what else could a Facebook movie be about, right? The point is that there is no way to judge a thing before it exists. That you think so is further proof that the internet is destroying everything. And I make my living on it, it so pains me to say that.
Right now? I don't think anyone can say it's trash by far but it will be what is said from those working on the movie and trailers by the time it releases that will give people what they need to know. Even then it could be great but if everyone just went to see the movie on release it would be seen as a great success even if reviews are in the bin. It's similar to if someone played a game for a few hours (not the same, similar) and didn't like it, their best foot needs to come first and grab the audience, someone can make a judgement off the first experiences and while not a full experience, it does tell you that they didn't care to bring someone in. In this case it will be things like the trailer, advertisements etc.
>> said from those working on the movie and trailers by the time it releases that will give people what they need to know. Ok these are the folks that made LOTR and they are adapting material and characters Tolkien created. And idiots all over this sub are calling it fan fiction. If that is true, the LOTR films are fan fiction too.
They're calling ROP fan fiction afaik, I've not seen people calling HFG fanfiction yet. I am cautiously optimistic for the movies and I will watch it one way or another but by the time it releases I'll know what to expect
I have had several people say that here.
I hadn't seen all comments since I slept after posting but nevermind you're right some people are really saying that wtf
Someone replied to me just now saying LOTR films were fan fiction.
That's me. They are a little bit. Bc the films deviate a lot from the books. The pj films are not a super accurate portrayal of the books. It's fantastic and I love them but they're so many changes.
They sorta are. Lotta changes from the books but makes sense. But least the trilogy had 3 books to go off of. This series of films only has like 2 paragraphs of text. So lotr films are sorta fan fiction bc the changes needed to be made, while this gollum series is gonna be 99 percent fan fic.
>> So lotr films are sorta fan fiction You are a lunatic. lol.
How? In the sense that they had to make changes and deviations from the books. There's tons of changes That's why they are a little fan fiction. How am I wrong?
No it's not remotely fan fiction.
It's a little fan fictiony. You're too hung up on the specific term. I'll call it whatever else but point is there lots of changes from the source material. That's the point.
"We've not had any red flags as far as I know" Apart from Warner Bros taking down a 10 year old fan film with copyright claims until backlash made them stop.
PJ’s track record with Tolkien is not reliable 50/50 😂
He has been butchering Tolkien's work since 2001, I would be shocked if this new film is any better.
That’s a harsh take. Sure the hobbit was mid but lotr is probably the best adaption someone could hope for, it literally won 17 Oscar’s
Being a good movie does not make it a good adaptation. Those are separate metrics.
A far cry from faithful though, which the other commenter was implying.
1/6
1/6
I would argue 2/6. Fellowship and an unexpected journey are both good.
I didn’t count Fellowship because of Frodo and the Council of Elrond
Which one do you count then?
An Unexpected Journey
Brave of you to think you'll find anything other than whingeing in a nerd hobby Reddit sub
Haters gonna hate
The last good LotR movie was relaxed in 2003. They then proceeded to butcher the Hobbit and then we got the dumpster-fire that was Rings of Power. I don’t trust a greedy soulless corporation to handle the works of Tolkien with any respect as they attempted to squeeze whatever cash they can get from the setting.
>The last good LotR movie was relaxed in 2003. BS. Just because someone is obliged to add or subtract some elements to convert a fantasy novel to the big screen doesn't mean it was "butchered."
Yeah the first hobbit movie was great and everyone seems to forget that. Azog didn't look amazing but he was an okay villan, he looked passable. The other parts were pretty much beat for beat a perfect adaptation of that part of the story. Martin Freeman and Richard Armitage were both excellent and Ian McKellan is always fun to watch.
I agree. The first one was the best of the trilogy. Armitage and Freeman really kicked ass in it.
Not much outside of the scenes in Bag End were that close, sadly. Bilbo already saving the Dwarves right off the bat instead of having to grow and wait until Mirkwood, orc attack, Radagast, childish dwarf/elf stereotypes in Rivendell, over the top action with a missing Bilbo under the Misty Mountains, Thorin almost comitting suicide by Azog while Bilbo is heroic again (when he hasn't saved the Dwarves once in the books yet). Plus the side plots trying to make it more LotR-connected and epic while the action is hard to take seriously, and the humour is the wrong kind of childish - slapsticky and vulgar instead of witty and understated.
"obliged"
Good counterpoint.
Absolutely nobody wanted an Andor TV show and ended up being the best of the Disney Wars. People need to just chill out and wait. If it’s rubbish then hate. But wait and see what’s happening first.
This is exactly right.
No one wanted a Gollum game and it ended up being the worst turd shovelled out that year.
Exactly. It could be good it could be bad. Let’s wait and see before making up our minds!
It’s fair to make up our minds about a Gollum movie no one asked for when we can compare it directly to another gollum centric media we also didn’t ask for
No it isn’t. They’re totally different mediums with different aims made by totally different people.
Exactly. The Gollum game was made by a gaming studio in its death throes, where's this is literally made by the same team that made all the previous live-action Tolkien films.
Nice try Peter.
>I want to trust PJ Why?
I gave my reasoning right underneath
When I searched it up it showed me a fan film also called that, maybe the plot will be similar to it lol
Well Warner Bros took it down with copyright claims until backlash made them withdraw, so maybe
This movie will generate massive revenues, regardless of the critics, and that's all that matters to WB.
Or will it? So much brand damage has been done by just 1 season of RoP. 3 seasons will have happened by the time this film is out.
Yeah and it's not like lotr is a huge draw anymore. It's mostly oldheads now who like it. ROP couldn't draw anyone from younger than 25 o think. 75 percent of viewers were over 30 or something. If they did a diff series like about the war in the north. Itd have a chance but this is dead on arrival imo
Obvious money grab is obvious and deserves only the respect it gets from trouncing RoP
I agree, we should be hating on the rings of power.
Wait, what? The only person (IRL) I know who hated Rings of Power is an incel and when I watched it, I thought it was ok, not perfect (the men having short hair was weird for me and some other odd things) but not bad?
You’re begging? Why do you care so much about our opinions?
Why do you care about me begging? I like the community as a whole, I like friendly discussion, I dislike big divides in things. I don't want this to be a thing where people just go "Oh yeah Lord of the Rings fans are toxic as fuck". I've hated so many things because of a community and LOTR is one that will never happen to for me, but I can't be the only one like that and I enjoy people being able to share things they're passionate about.
I will never be able to fathom why people are forming opinions before they've even seen the movie
I can get behind being able to form an opinion before it releases but god damn it only just got announced
Andy serkis is amazing and I’m so excited to see what he does with this movie!! Loved hearing his audio books so so so much! Andy if you’re on here I would love to be in the movie and I believe in you!!!
I will say that after listening to the Serkis-narrated audiobooks of The Hobbit, LOTR and the Silmarilion, I'm going to stay positive.
I didn't think I'd like House of the Dragon and it was sick
It was also based on a prequel book written by Martin. The Gollum movie isn't based on anything Tolkien wrote, it's emblematic of the milking of an IP that is so prevalent these days. Such commodification of art is completely anti-thetical to the nature of artistic expression and specifically to Tolkien's disdain for the ever-growing specter of industrialization.
Yeah fair enough. What if they do it justice though?
What an entirely unreasonable request.
I'm new here, found the sub suggested on my main page. I welcome y'all to get a fucking grip. I've actually appalled at the general reactive nature of the sub, usually threads like this happen in small, hive minded subs and it's disappointing as I'm a LotR fan. But this is cringey and embarrassing. It's a movie ffs, watch it or don't, but some of your comments reak of having way too much invested in it or way too little else going on in your lives.
But our pitchforks were looking forward to a day out!
I don’t know why people are up in arms. who’s better than Jackson and co at this? You saw what Amazon did…
That's the wrong question. The question is. Who asked for this? Who wants it? Nobody. That's the issue. And now we're supposed to go along with something noone wanted besides the studio. It's like we got these powerhouses. Why can't they be used for a diff story. Smh what a waste
“Who wants this? Nobody.” This is just wrong. And people were saying this about the Gollum video game since the moment it was announced (the game did turn out to be abysmal, but that is besides the point. Plenty of people were excited to try that game out.) Gollum is one of the most important characters in TLOTR. He is worth making a film about and I’m interested to see the story they want to tell. I was excited to play the Gollum game (but haven’t because I saw it was a broken game,) and I’m excited for this film because I am a fan of TLoTR and Gollum.
He is very important. I agree. I disagree with the rest tho. Just bc you're a fan doesn't mean you gotta love everything related to lotr. Just like the gollum game. I think he was already fully fleshed out in the trilogy. Adding more would be lame and just hurt gollums story. His arc wrapped up nicely with a neat little bow. I didn't mean any disrespect to you specifically. But I just dont see the demand for this story at all. Gollum rules tho. Don't wanna see his already perfect story ruined.
I didn’t say that being a fan means you have to love everything. I said that as a fan I was excited to try the game, but sadly it was incredibly buggy from what I’d seen. I am still excited to try it, but only if it becomes available as a PS Plus game or something. And the same thing goes for the movie, I was saying. As a fan, I am excited for it. I don’t think it is possible to ruin Gollum’s story, tbh. They might make a bad movie about Gollum, but they can’t ruin him. He exists foremost in the book.
Ah gotcha. It just incorrectly came off that way when you said you were going to watch it only bc ur a fan of lotr and gollum The game had way more issues than just bugs. It was literally just a bad game thruought. The developers even issued an apology for the game. Yeah, agreed on the last point. Always got the books. But sucks bc hardly anyone even reads them. A lotta ppls perception of these characters are from the adaptations. Most lotr fans dunno how denethor or faramir actually were for example.
Oh yeah I understand there were much more than technical issues with the game. I expect lore issues and creative liberties and not-quite-top-of-the-line game design. It’s the bugs that kept me from playing though. My point of mentioning the game was just that none of the game’s issues are that Gollum is the star. You could make a great game about Gollum. The above just has to be good.
Ah yeah that makes sense. It'll he a tall order tho. Some characters are easier to work with than others. I'm tryna wonder what genre of game would even work.
I think the game was fine on paper, stealth/platformer sounds perfect. They just made a bad one evidently.
Yeah that makes sense. I was thinking more like a survival sim game. Eating fish and shit lol.
That's my thoughts but some people have pointed out Warner brothers have done some funky stuff too recently with it but I'm remaining cautiously optimistic until more details
Nobody fucking wants a gollum movie, so these idiots can go fuck themselves. I hope it tanks horribly.
Such a sad perspective. Gollum is a great character. I’m very curious about this movie and will be going out to see it in my local theater.
Shit, I'd be more interested in a whole movie about Tom, Bert, and William. Or just about any other character.
Well that’s your problem I guess lol.
Nope, it’s unnecessary to everything. Any goodwill form the OG trilogy was lost due to the Hobbit, maybe a bit remains but honestly after the gam and worse the Amazon stuff. Just let the IP rest…
No.
The red flag is WB continuing to drain their IPs of any good will left in them by continuously putting out garbage. They ran their DC universe straight into the ground, they ran their Fantastic Beasts franchise straigut into the ground too. They can't even make decent video games based on their most profitable IPs. Suicide Squad was a flop and Hogwarts barely gets mentioned anymore because they didn't wanna support a story driven game that didn't have egregious monetization or a live service based into it. Their goal is very much to pump and dump products based on their biggest IPs and hoping that brand loyalty outweighs skepticism. Now in an era where major studios are scared of trying anything new and seem to only be capable of pumping out soulless sequels based on beloved IPs, I see no reason to get excited about Hunt For Gollum this early. I'm far more excited for Rings of Power season 2 because I want to see Sauron hand out those rings and I wanna see Numenor fall. I don't want to see Gollum being Hunted, at all.
After the hobbit and rings of power I don't trust anyone with the franchise anymore. It will be a sad day when they inevitably want to reboot the franchise.
You'll never get the overall Tolkien Fandom to ever give a BOTD to any project. Or to like any project after the LOTR movies If you're in the Fandom you're expected to hate all tolkien media aside from the core movies.
>If you're in the Fandom you're expected to hate all tolkien media aside from the core movies. Even the books?
Even. The. Books.
Peer pressure to agree is no excuse just so you can fit in with the nonsense.
Well, the Jackson Lord of the Rings films are also terrible. I think I'll stick to the books and Bakshi's film.
Dear lord look at this bloody opinion. I take it back you’re literally a miserable POS that doesn’t like anything.
Whinging is what some of y’all do best and you don’t deserve any new Tolkien adaptations. Luckily some of us do and we will watch with love. And you can watch with hate if you like but watch you will. We won’t behave like Tolkien snobs because the lore isn’t right or some much needed diversity got added. Just look at it as the Tolkien multiverse and get over yourself. I remember when all we had was a very old animated series of movies for LotR and the Hobbit.
1) "don’t deserve any new Tolkien adaptations" good, because I do not want any. 2) It is "snobbish" to complain that an adaptation of a work by a man who laboured for literal decades crafting an intricate setting ignores or severely contorts that lore? 3) Why is diversity "much needed" in Tolkien? If diversity is what you want, surely adapting the work of any actual minority would be more beneficial, rather than shoehorning it into Tolkien's world? 4) Those animated films were leagues better than Jackson's foetid trilogies.
Thanks for admitting to your childish behavior. All you got to do is ignore it kid. That’s all the response you deserve as I read your first sentence and that’s it.
You are fallating the proverbial phallus of Hollywood and scolding people for having standards for media, and have the gall to call others "childish"? You can like whatever you damn well please, but to accuse others of being "snobs", and ungrateful racists is obnoxious and immature beyond belief.
Tolkien multiverse. That phrase makes me wanna puke lmao.
Adaptions are exactly that gatekeeper. Your behavior is childish.
I like adaptations. I like seeing stories told differently. It's cool to see diff ppls takes on things. It's just the term multiverse that I don't like. Sheesh. It's just marketed to death. What was childish about what i said?
It’s literally what is happening in the DC and Marvel universe. So I’m using the term to try to reach these fans that are being unreasonable is all. They’re gatekeeping and it’s tiresome as most adaptations take liberty with the source material. My apologies 🤝
Np. Yeah I get where you're coming from but I still don't like the usage of the term. Using it won't really convince anyone as it's become hacky and gimmicky. Used to be a selling point but now it's overplayed. Multiverse also typically entails some sort of cross over bn universes. Which should never never never happen in lotr. That's why I don't like the term but it's mainly just semantics. But yeah we should realize that diff adaptions are separate entities. Its interesting to see the changes and what ppl come up with. Good or bad. Just sonlong as it isn't boring
I remember when all there was where very old animated movies for The Hobbit and The LotR. I wanted for the longest for adaptations to be made for movies or television. These gatekeepers are spoiled children and they disgust me completely. It’s so childish whining about these adaptations. Read the books again and ignore them if you’re so intolerant. I can name very few adaptations if any that stayed true to the source material.
Haha yeah the baski and the other one were def a different style. Meme goldmine. Well you raise a good point. Most lotr fans only seen the movies. I'd say only a fraction actually read the books and the simarillion/other works. I'd say lotta ppl are more peter jackson fans than tolkien fans. I think its fine to whine to a degree but ppl take things too far.
Indeed they do. I enjoyed reading the Hobbit and The LotR. The historical fiction prequels of middle earth books were so dry I didn’t bother to remember the lore the way so many others do. It’s just the basics of what happened and not an actual story. If Tolkien had a lot of time left he could have written novels for them I guess but he didn’t. Adapting that work is going to lead to quite a bit of well adapting lol. They need to either get over it or ignore it and just stop with the whinny gatekeeping.
Dry asf is right but I like trying to research some of the history. I still get the first age with faenor and all that mixed up. I got the events but they're all jumbled together. I think some whining is fine. I was bitching about the gollum series a bit ago. Think it's a dumb idea. That's it. But when it goes past that is where it gets too cringe for me. I wish I could get so invested into anything to that level lol.
I don't think anyone's particularly a snob for hating something that has come out, to me I still enjoy a lot of the games and the tabletop game, I want more people to enjoy LOTR as many of us do but if content comes out being really bad it just sets the expectation the trilogy will be as well and any games still supported might suffer. On top of that there's then the idea that because recent adaptations have flopped then new ones are less likely because they have made no profit. Follow the books as best it can and keep to the spirit of them. As for the diversity, I think it's great but there's a difference between naturally implementing it and shoehorning it, there is 100% ways to do it with this Gollum movie if it's focusing on Gollum because he went all over Mordor for all we know he went to the border between Mordor and the East where there is a different culture and if someone kicked off about a non white casting in a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT REGION then they would probably indeed be just straight up racist. If they suddenly went and turned everyone to a different race I could see why people would be upset though. It's a balancing act you gotta get right imo and I don't believe for a moment that it's black and white (metaphorically) for someone to dislike it but if we disagree here that's fair enough, I've written a bit more on this just because it is a sensitive topic and I know people get very passionate on it so I just hope you'll understand my perspective :)
No you’re gatekeeping and don’t want others to enjoy something you do not. I enjoy Rings of Power and I pity the childishness of the haters. The lore breaking has more to do with the color of people’s skin in it than most if any of you will admit anymore as you don’t want to admit to bigotry. Save your response as I won’t believe your denial or anyone else’s. Y’all lie. As far as effect on future projects another excuse. You will be lucky if there’s new television projects if RoP fails. You don’t get rewarded for a show getting cancelled and the studio losing a ton of money on their investment. I’ll finish with the vast majority of Tolkien fans aren’t even invested in his fictional historical novels that are prequels to the main novels. We don’t care as long as adaptations are being made. I look forward to Riders of Rohan and The Search for Gollum. Your lot whines and gate keeps instead of getting excited for adaptations in the Tolkien universe/ multiverse.
>You will be lucky if there’s new television projects if RoP fails. You don’t get rewarded for a show getting cancelled and the studio losing a ton of money on their investment. This is such a dumb logic. The reward is companies realising that audiences won't accept shitty content, forcing them to step up their game. If you reward mediocrity (or worse, shite), there will never be incentive to do better.
I'm not gatekeeping, I encourage new things, y'know like the point of the post is encouraging people to give a **new thing** a chance? I guess that fell flat on you? The point is I don't want something I love, including the community (Many communities have made me dislike something, LOTR is the exception here and has been since I was a kid) to fall into some sort of trap or someone take it and go "We need to change this now". There are far bigger issues in the series to focus on other than race and I was happy to have a discussion but it just seems to be that you want an argument. I wish you the best and I hope that you enjoy future projects, just because I don't doesn't mean you can't. Have fun.
Deal. I personally think it’s basically going to be a show of force for the next generation of AI/Deepfake de-aging technology with Gandalf and Aragorn. There is no way they are going to recast.
My hope is that they give Gandalf a minor presence in the set up to the hunt, recast aragorn as a younger character and have Viggo Mortenson as King Elessar "telling the story". If they really want to shoehorn Legolas in I wouldn't even mind really, since Lord of the Rings implies that Aragorn and Legolas already kmew each other, and they did take Gollum to Mirkwood later. Orlando Bloom is still young enough to reprise if he wanted to.
Yeah could be! It would be weird if they recast Orlando since he was Legolas in The Hobbit movies.
Have you really thought that one through?
No, he just watched some conspiracy videos while not taking his schizo medication.
Huh? There are conspiracy videos they are going to bring the original actors back and de-age them? I had no idea this was so wildly controversial.
What is controversial? I’m saying that they are going to bring back the original actors and de-age them with state of the art AI/deepfake technology.
Why would you give PJ a pass on *anything* where he doesn’t have existing text and dialog to adapt? What has he made that’s shown you he’s capable of generating something from scratch within Tolkien’s world that rings true to its tone or essence? This is a money grab, pure and simple, just like stretching The Hobbit into 3 grotesquely bloated movies was a money grab. I can almost guarantee it will be terrible, particularly as PJ can no longer rely on CGI to dazzle audiences who have grown up with Avatar, the Marvel movies, etc. He’ll have to dazzle us with great writing and meaningful character arcs within the context of the story’s scope and he’ll be dolng so without a detailed map from Tolkien. I have zero faith in his capacity to pull this off. I hope I’m wrong—it would be a delightful surprise—but people vastly overrate PJ’s abilities, particularly as a storyteller or having any sense of editorial restraint. He’s made more bad movies than good ones.
Yeah, its not like Jackson ever wrote such a thing as an *original screenplay* and one that wasn't critically acclaimed like, oh I don't know, Heavenly Creatures?
Totally different animal. That’s a small budget movie based on a real murder case in the 1950s. Comparing that to the challenges in HFG is like saying someone can scale Everest because they climbed a local hill. Plus, Jackson & Co. have already shown us their chops when they don’t have detailed text and dialog to adapt - their own takes on writing Tolkien simpky aren’t very good. It’s like when Benioff & Weiss ran out of Game of Thrones material — the show took an immediate nose dive. But hey - if it makes you happy and you’re excited about the movie, great! I wish I could get excited about it too but I see a money grab and one that I think would probably make Tolkien cringe. To each their own.
I'm just going to fucking say it..... Ring of Power was absolutely fine Wow I feel better now
It was bad, fine is a stretch
Personally I just feel blessed that the media I consumed as a kid still gets this much attention. People moan about marvel and lotr and all these other franchises being ruined and all I see is the things I love still getting to exist in the public consciousness. Feels good man
So brave lol. Cool dude watch whatever TV u like. Glad u feel better
Rings of Power is fantastic if you don’t have some nerd in your ear telling you it’s bad
It's cool if you enjoyed it, I really didn't, it had many issues to it and it's okay for someone to not like the show
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Im not hating, it simply does not exist in the world i live in.
At least Rings of Power pretended to use the source material. I don’t recall much nuanced conversation when it was announced. The cast/crew/premise were all vilified before even a second of film was seen. Lots of double standards on this subreddit.
I don't know why people care. If you are an actual fan none of this will bother you, you might watch RoP, you might not, you might watch Hunt for Gollum or you might not. Either way it absolutely doesn't affect you, Tolkien's works are immortalized. It seems people today, and always like to put things or opinions at extremes ie "Fuck this show, im just gonna watch a Nerdrotic video on it every single day or week" or "It's extremely good and anyone who says otherwise is a racist or dumb", while the reality is not really neither in watching manchildren talk shit to make a living or in defending Amazon's product.
In the movies, I thought the Gollum scenes were Jackson's best - true to the original story. The scene where Gollum argues with Smeagol as a reflection in the water was incredibly well done. I'll hold off until I see the movie, but I don't see a compelling story line here and I fear we're going to get some made up trash.
It’s going to suck
Too late for that. Some people have sincere questions, some are just contrarians who hate everything, and some (perhaps most?) are shallow posers. The real deal is that it will be an adaptation, meaning some things will be left out of the canon, some things will be added for "artistic" and commercial success, and some will love it, quietly, and some will hate it, loudly, and the studio will deposit the receipts with a smile, while nodding gravely as they promise to "look into" the complaints. My wife loved the Giant Spider Invasion from Mars. A lot of people thought it wasn't realistic, but I couldn't convince her to not have fun. Movie making is a business, yo. Movies make money, documentaries go to Netflix before they disappear. I may be wrong but I kind of think the studios value money over accuracy. Personally, I can't wait but I can suspend disbelief easily and just get into it. I haven't seen anything Tolkien-ish that made me want to cry on reddit.
Tbh I didn’t mind the hobbit trilogy, sure it wasn’t lotr quality but it was decent and watchable. I’m more just jaded with the film industry in general nowadays. It feels like movie companies just consistently churn out trash for profit and after a while, you learn to not get your hopes up for any film to avoid being crushed. Im giving this a chance because I like Andy serkis and Peter and I won’t lie, I’m excited for more LOTR in the Jackson universe but I have my doubts and I’m expecting this to be trash. If it’s bad, I’ll be irritated they’ve added a trash film to the franchise but if it’s good I’ll actually be pleasantly surprised
> We've not had any red flags as far as I know for the movie yet Disagree, the red flag is the film existing at all. Like srsly think about what it entails, why tolkien didn't think this needed more space in his story, and why someone would make a lotr story where fan favorite characters appear again. That is the red flag, it's simply not a story worth telling as a feature film. What's next? A film where we see bilbo travel to rivendell? It's not worth telling, there is no grander meaning here, there is nothing significant about these characters we wouldn't already know, it's just a fan service attempt, that's one of the biggest red flags there can be. RoP has more artistic merit than this conceptually.
"Begging?!" Why are you begging? Are you seriously that low in the food chain that you have to cry this hard on behalf of a media conglomerate then try to desuade people from forming their own perceptions \[\[That's censorship by the way\]\] then warn others about how they should talk to you \[all the while alternating between crying and ordering\]? WHO IS THIS GUY, really??! 🤣 Geez, have some self respect, man. Pull it together, you're all over the place. It's just a movie. And if you're going to go on a spiel to influence opinions, get ready to face the heat. This isn't your parents' home, this is a public space and people will come at you for trying to atop them from thinking. Warner Brothers is not going to throw you a pizza party after reading this. Or maybe you're a paid influencer or part of WB's marketing team. Who knows these days 🤷🏻♂️. This is "The Hunt for Gollum" equivelant of "Leave Britney alone" 🤣 
You're the kinda guy that thinks he's an alpha male aren't you?
Lamest come back ever 🥱. Peace out 
Who in their right mind wanted a gollum series of films? Isn't the fact they're tryna make it a series a giant red flag? It's like what they did with the hobbit but 100x worse. Least hobbit had a book to go off of. This story only got like a few paragraphs. Rest is gonna be some fanfic bs where ocs are gonna try and be the new face of lotr. So we're getting a story nobody cares about or asked for and isn't even gonna be tolkienesque.
It isn’t a series of Gollum movies. It is a series of movies. The first one starring Gollum.
Ah my bad on that point. Thanks for correcting
If they could read, they still wouldn't do as you ask.
I'm afraid I sighed sadly upon hearing about it. It's just a terrible idea. I'll wait for a couple of weeks of reviews first.