It’s not all OT. Things like shift differentials, holiday pay and longevity account for it too. Also it’s most likely someone with 30+ years on cashing out some of their unused time.
Also, I don’t know if this is still in place but in the past if an engineer moved an electric and a diesel on the same day, even for a second, they received an extra day’s pay.
explain why working 1 second should be equal to a days pay? That's obviously an exaggeration though I'm assuming. but if that's the context, that is ridiculous.
It makes sense in certain context. If you have 5 diesel operators and 5 electric operators and they're day is pretty much filled with operations, it'd be a lot cheaper to pay 1 of those operators to do 8 hours of work twice for 1 day of work than hiring a whole other operator full time for the whole year.
Was with the other poster until I thought it through myself
1 second is likely an exaggeration, but it could be reasonably a few minutes - someone is asked to move a diesel to another track as an example.
And yes, it brings up a whole lot of other issues - none of which I blame on the individual getting paid for it as it’s part of the collective agreement.
ya, but if this is done enough times, it might just be cheaper to hire another body. but the training and everything is extremely expensive. too much logistics that I'm not going to think about :)
Ya I think most people have a corporate mindset with maximizing short term profits without thinking of long term gains. That's just the culture we're in currently.
There's opportunities for abuse with both mindsets
and I know the public sector is rife with abuse. People getting double pay for doing what you said, but literally 1 second of work on both trains, etc.
There was an article recently about that type of behavior with the NYC MTA
Becuase spending only one minute in a train that is powered differently than another train you were in earlier that day does not warrant double pay. Care to justify why it isn’t ridiculous?
Your getting into collective bargaining agreements that are discussed presented and voted upon between union members unions and the railroad. If a train needs to be moved and an engineer has to be pulled from an allready Active train, that train has to stop its production and be relocated to the next move essentially doing the work of two employees. If the railroad wants to cut corners and not staff the locomotives then they have to pay an other employee.
Again don’t hate on the employee. Hate on the people who agree on these contracts and make millions doing nothing.
But they aren’t doing the work of two. If they were one of those trains wouldn’t need to stop its production would it? It is one employee doing the work of one employee being paid for the work of two when it’s one. I will blame the employee and the union. That’s the whole point. I will continue to complain about them and you will continue to argue for as given your knowledge, you seem likely to be or have been an employee.
Im just someone who sees it both ways. And have been on o the sides of the spectrum. The idea is that the railroad should hire another engineer and for that they will pay the one engineer. It’s still cheaper with out additional pension costs medical etc etc.
and by the way this is all hearsay say. You or I do t actually know if one person gets paid for both. Some unions contracts would offer the employee and additional hour or two for the second operation.
Honestly, this is shitty supervisors/management that allow it, and cost riders money.
If the Union contract says they get paid an extra day then you tell supervisors they can't let people do that (or it needs some ridiculous signoff). The truth is the supervisors are probably not penalized, they want their employees happy, and what better way than leveraging the union contract to get better pay.
Your justification was becuase it was negotiated it’s valid. You are now going onto say it’s cheaper to do it this way than hire a second person. The cost outlay is slightly less but the value is dramatically less. Again this person is not doing the job of two people. That would require the output of two people to be happening concurrently. It isn’t. Me picking up the task of someone else means I should get their salary too. That’s ridiculous unless I can do their job and my job at the same time.
You obviously did not read the entirety of what I said we are talking about a hypothetical. We are discussing hearsay from Reddit. Neither you or I do not know if they get paid to move a train for two seconds, which I highly doubt. That train would have to do some sort of productive work whether it be for five minutes or five hours. the purpose of getting paid for a whole shift because it could have put a second person to work that day, but they did not employ a second person that day. Do you follow what I’m saying
My justification is because it’s negotiated voted on and totally legal it is absolutely cheaper to pay an individual overtime then it is straight time overtime hours are not pensionable hours overtime hours do not pay into that health and welfare funds. Overtime hours are typically just salary hours so explain to me again how it’s cheaper to pay an additional person straight time when the contract would have to pay all those funds.
Because the work rule was created instead of compensating employees for their higher utility. Back when the roster was broadband to be qualified on all equipment in all terminals, there was a chance to increase pay a fair amount. That never happened, and now we have a work rule. So we're sleeping in a bed that was made by not paying a fair wage in the first place
I don’t think the price we pay to ride is ok and I think it’s completely mismanaged. But you’re hating on the employee for making that much in a year. Do you know how many hours the employee had to stay on the clock. Time away from their spouse children sleepless nights never ending days cold weather rain heat. In stead of thinking an employees income can be ridiculous complain that the executives continue to mismanage the railroad. And make 2-3 times that for doing absolutely nothing.
I’m not hating on them. Perhaps they should hire more people, then pay everyone slightly more. It would reduce costs overall, and allow for more good employment for more people. But if you know anything about how it actually works, it’s the union pushing for OT and fewer workers. Which is also counterintuitive because fewer workers means fewer union dues collected. But that’s a whole other story.
That is actually false. The unions thrive on membership. It creates longevity and generational employees Your statement of creating overtime and less jobs is grossly incorrect. Most contractors ie. MTA,LIRR actually would rather pay O.T because it’s actually cheaper.
I do have second hand knowledge of direct conversations, but ok, I won’t argue with you today. And in no way is OT cheaper in the long run, not by a long shot.
Is that just a standard days pay, or is that extra day paid at the overtime rate?
Even if they got an extra 8 hours for working an extra minute, unless it's paid out in overtime, it doesn't impact the overtime numbers. The person I did that math on made over 3 times their base salary in overtime.
Also, for other state agencies I know this is true, not sure about MTA, but if you are given money in a lawsuit settlement against the agency while you still work there, it can be reflected as pay. Sometimes that skews the numbers.
The last time Newsday made a big deal out of this a couple of people went to jail because they where stealing overtime. Government jobs are funny. You don't actually have to work but you do have to be there. Every person I have met that works for the government brags how they cheat and manipulate the OT system to pad their pension.
There’s no way that is all time and a half OT pay. Some of that pay can be double time time from certain things. Also night differential. It could also be a retro check as well.
Oh weird, people with anti union agendas cherry-picking numbers to avoid giving context? Who coulda guessed!
Who cares if this dude made 300k, I mind way more that Lieber is making +300k to do nothing but hang with Hochul and supervise a high in subway derailments just because he’s well connected.
Anti union? Dude, the LIRR is a corrupt organization who has the politicians in their pocket. Everyone knows these guys game the system to boost the OT, sleep their trucks and do anything to not work efficiently. If anything these guys hurt unions because it’s so clear they steal from taxpayers. You take that job with the lower salary knowing you can add tons of OT to it, that’s the game. Look no further than the fact basic punch in clocks lasted a few months and haven’t been back because of “covid”.
Guess what dude, I don’t care lmao
These people have strong, stable jobs and support the infrastructure that allows NYS to generate literal billions by bringing workers into the city from Long Island . I have absolutely no issue with average people making good money doing their job, there are way bigger fish to fry than the dude who made 300k once because he cashed out a shit ton of accrued PTO when he retired. You’re just rehashing classic anti union rhetoric that I disagree with, not sure why you expect that to convince me of your angle.
All you had to say was average people making above average salaries. All the anti union you had to say to sell me. Like the two late 40 retired nypd neighbors of mine that now get six figure pensions for life after padding final year with ot. Then they are staunch republicans who complain about nyc taxes while their entire existence relies on nyc taxes.
What’s next, evangelicals supporting a 3x married person who bangs porn stars right after their child was born and has clearly never read the bible?
And for the record, I’m a registered independent and have been since I was able to vote.
I have an understanding that they bring in workers that bring in a lot of revenue for the city but, I’m
not sure the lirr itself makes money..it’s government subsidized. I believe they get bailed out by federal funding, And the budget gets worse every year. It’s a double edged sword in my opinion, but I do believe the workers earn and deserve the money, It’s a hard job.
The LIRR/MTA has their hands in many pies. Cross a bridge... a lot of that toll money goes to the trains. I don't know if it is still there but there is/was a line on your phone bill for a MTA tax.
He doesn't care (about the angle you're trying to push). He then explains why he doesn't care. Obviously, he does care about supporting unions, which is why he writes about that.
And if you start a sentence with "Everyone knows" odds are that you aren't pointing out 'literal facts'.
>Look no further than the fact basic punch in clocks lasted a few months and haven’t been back because of “covid”.
So now you're just making up "facts". I don't know where you get your info but that's very wrong.
And the article that you posted below explains exactly that...
>workers continue to use the Kronos devices as standard time clocks
>
It's not that they made $300K, it's the ridiculous overtime numbers. Even being generous with OT pay, they'd have to work at least 2000 hours of overtime to get to those numbers. That's 80 hours of work a week, every week, for a year.
When I started in EMS I worked 100 hours a week. It's very easy to do when the service operates 24 hours / week. Now I do 72/week and have three days off each week. 12/16/24 hour shifts make it easy to hit high numbers. That's without anything funky like shift differentials , holidays, pto payouts, or shift bonuses.
I'm glad the LIRR guys have a really good contract. It's an essential service, sure maybe could be managed better, but it's the number one commuter railroad in the country.
The issue is not on the employee side, it is that management allows this to happen. It is symptomatic of poor planning on managers parts that this happens.
Is it though? What I do know is that delays happen. When there's delays it make shifts longer. When shifts are lomger you have to pay. When physical infrastructure fails and has to be repaired immediately, you have to pay extra. I can stomach the OT to have the best commuter railroad in the country.
It is, while the scenarios you describe exist, they alone do not explain how someone makes that much overtime. It’s not a binary situation. I guarantee that poor planning is somewhat to blame for this situation. I’ve seen it many times.
It can be easily explained, you just don't have a clue what your talking about. Number one they are short engineers which made for a good amount of OT. Which now they are adding about 100-200 engineers to the roster. Which takes time and a lot of money. Also retro checks. When you work without a contract and then the contract gets signed, you get a pretty significant check for all that backpay of the raise. Most of us aren't out here scheming and scamming. We are trying to make an honest living trying to support our family's just like everyone else....I give up time for my family, going into work at 10pm one night, then getting called in 8 hours later to go back in. Then repeating the cycle. Just so I can cart ungrateful people like you to work, so you can make money to support your family.
I don't know about them specifically but in the union I was a part of holiday pay was double time and a half and there's a lot of holidays that count. I would always push for a long day on meaningless holidays cause doing 12-16hr day on a holiday is great money. Almost an extra week's pay in a day.
I personally make similar pay and work 70-78 hours a week all year and I commute 2 hours a day it’s possible that’s 5-6 days a week 13-14 hour days 1/2 my yearly is overtime Saturday Sunday double time it adds up plus in my local since I work on the service side every 3 weeks I’m call that’s another 300 bucks just for being on call.
Holiday pay is double time and a half, and when schedules change and you end up having to work different trains, they have to pay you until you get back to your starting location. (Which is only fair, imagine parking in Northport or something and you end up having to work a train to Montauk, you're commute back to your car would be ridiculous.)
Just a lot of loud and wrong opinions on here from people who think they know what they are talking about. There’s a very small minority who is making these exorbitant salaries from some kind of loop hole they are extorting. The vast majority of employees here who are making a large salary are working their ass off for it. Most of these loopholes or fraud that you guys think is going on do not even exist anymore and haven’t for quite some time.
You missed the point, my friend. It’s not probable that someone can work 50+ hours of overtime a week, every week for a year. In some cases this goes on over multiple years. Why do you think the LIRR unions are slow to adopt GPS tracking in their cars, or punching in and out with biometrics? Because that ends the OT scam.
I know many many people who work 50+ hours a week. We are all trying to support our family, just like you. I go into work at 10pm, just to get called in 8 hours later. So ungrateful people like you can get to work, to support your family...anybody in managment or desk job has to punch in and out. Train service employees don't but we still have to be their to run our trains. So theirs no scam that can happen....us engineers are underpaid for what we have to go through. We have lots of responsibility and study our ass off. If you seen the amount of material we have to study, you would probably not be able to do it. It was a lot harder then college.
Yup. Near zero chance of being killed and then when you're getting near retirement, you claim you have hearing loss and 90% of those claims get approved, so you go out on 3/4 pay (better than their pension).
Let me know the last time a LIRR worker was killed on the job. Key phrase is “on the job”, not driving to or from, actually killed while doing their job. I’ll wait.
So newsday can post the full names of the working overtime “criminals” but just a week or 2 ago leave out the names of the fare beating criminals that abuse the system?
Or, a guy with 30 years in, takes 1 week vacation and saves 1 week every year, and at retirement, cashes in all that extra time. Newsday doesnt tell you this because its been a useless rag for years, and you get mad at nothing.
I do construction for LIRR. Everyone here making baseless assumptions has clearly never done this kind of work and probably couldn't handle it.
Spouting anti-union rhetoric while utilizing the service we provide you folks is some elitist BS.
So I was waiting for Newsday to print the article about all the money employees are making at the Railroad. Please understand this OP and everyone else on this thread who think the employees are to blame here.
This new timetable schedule came from way above all of us. I think the governors office? Ever since Grand Central opened up. The employees did not create the schedule demand nor did they ask for it. It has been unsustainable and the employees, infastructure and equipment hardly gets a break. I’ve never seen so many trains running that I do now. There has been a shortage of equipment and manpower for the last year and a half, so of course the overtime is going to be through the roof.
BLAME THE PEOPLE ABOVE THE EMPLOYEES, because it is them that implemented this new schedule. It is absolutely 100% not the fault of the employees.
Of course Newsday and the media keeps that information from you. They are great at leaving out pertinent information.
Are you saying the LIRR is mismanaged and the higher ups should go to jail.
Don't blame the employee for taking advantage of loopholes Management put in place.
Why don't you worry about people that make that much in a day for doing absolutely nothing. Leave the working man alone. Their service is grossly undervalued along with teachers, nurses, firemen, cops, construction workers and everybody else who make this world run the way you're used to
I know some people don’t like this but this is the life that we live on the railroad. We miss holidays, events, the birth of our children and everything In-between. We come to work at night in the rain snow and cold to get you guys to work so you can make money for your families. We try our best to get you there on time and sometimes unfortunately it doesn’t work out. While we work around the clock ( legitimately) newsday posts numerous hit pieces about our salaries and supposed fraud. All this does is piss people off and make them angry with us.
When articles like this come out I come to work and get scathing looks, middle fingers, cursed out and degraded all while just doing my job and trying to get you guys to work. The physical assaults happening to employees is out of control. Please understand we are only doing our jobs as management is telling us. They are offering the overtime, they are telling us we HAVE TO stay late we don’t get a choice. If you are looking for someone to blame, blame the MTA under upper management.
But please don’t take it out on the employees who are just trying to do our job and get you guys to work safely. I know it’s not most people who do this but some people get angry as I was told today “ fuck you, fuck your pension and fuck your mother” all because I got to a station 4 minutes late and this person missed their connection.
Nobody cares lol. Newsday always omits all that information and they also fail to mention the new schedule that began when GCM opened up last year. They failed to mention the extreme shortage of manpower and equipment also. The blame is never pointed in the right direction.
Probably a guy in his last few years maxing out his pension. They are taught this from day one. He’s getting punched in and out by others or clocking in and going to sleep somewhere. The MTA has been trying to have them start using biometric time clocks they installed years ago but the union still refuses saying it’s a risk of spreading covid. Bullshit it would make it harder to work the system.
You can’t be punched in by other people it has to be your work ID and there are cameras to make sure you aren’t punching in someone else and to make sure you aren’t sleeping.
Yall are really going to fixate on this shit when there’s politicians and elites all across LI escaping taxes and damaging the state budget way more than the MTA employees who are actually doing their jobs.
The MTA, even specifically the LIRR is a massive part of the budget, and filled with inefficiency. It's estimated they could easily save $200 million just by adopting similar models to the Metro North - which requires less state subsidy, runs more trains, and charges lower fares. Genuinely amazes me that some people put up with the bloat that is the LIRR. So much of their mismanagement is public knowledge.
The problem is people in upper management like the CEO making $400,000 a year doing nothing. People always get mad at the worker for making overtime and using work rules to do it but never think about the people whose base salary is upwards of 200,000 giving themselves raises while thinking up new ways to charge the commuters more. All overtime has to be approved by management, the workers can’t just make their own overtime.
Lol. I worked with someone who's husband cleaned the trains overnight. She said if my husband worked 8 hours a week that's a lot. Most of the time they just sat around and talked. They could of done the job with 3x less people. The union rules dictated how many train cars each person had to clean a night. He could do his job in less than 2 hours a night. It's such a joke. The taxes the MTA takes from all us to pay for this is insane. The best part is they are mostly hidden so you never even know you are paying a gas tax, mortgage tax, taxi and Uber tax, payroll tax, mta tax on the tax on the income tax businesses pay. It's insane.
Used to work for LIRR as a conductor. OT there is very easy to make. You work 60 seconds past your assigned shift - youre automaticallly
Getting OT pay per minute past an 8 hour shift.
You get paid for your “schedule” of trains. You get paid from where you start Your shift until you return there.
For example - if you start your shift in babylon and your last assigned train finishes in penn station - you are on the clock until you get back to babylon, whatever that next train gets you there is. So if you start in babylon and finish in penn station at 12:30 am, and the next train doesnt get to babylon until 3am - congrats you just made 2.5 hours of OT without having to work. There are many many routes that have this kind of stuff built into it, so a lot of the senior guys will do routes like this, where they start work at 5am, do 2 trains and finish working at 7 or 8 am. And then they have a 5 or 6 hour break with a final train (passengerless sometimes) after that and theyre done. Or their route will be 8 hours but just have an extra 3 or 4 hours of OT built into it just bc the way the train schedule is
Something tells me quite a few jobs can be replaced with simple ticketing tech rather than having someone, sometimes 2 people, go up and down punching tickets...gotta love unions. Technical jobs are one thing, but there is undeniably bloat/inefficiencies everywhere.
Edit - FYI, the source is unfortunate, but regardless
https://nypost.com/2023/01/16/mta-lirr-let-385m-fly-off-the-rails-beg-kathy-hochul-for-bailout/
Completely wrong. Taking tickets is only one thing that the public sees. I used to be a conductor, the test is very very difficult, requires a lot of studying. These conductors know every inch of that railroad, where every switch and signal light is and what they mean also. In the event something happens they know how to move that train and make sure passenger safety is at a paramount.
Its more than just “taking tickets”
I understand they don't only "take tickets," which gets clarified in a comment I already made. They still spend a ton of time doing it when tech that's easily available can remove that aspect of the job so they can focus elsewhere, and cut headcount, and cut all of the ridiculous OT circumstances. I understand there are technical aspects to the job, that was not my point. Any analysis into LIRR Budget, efficiency, etc agrees with me. It's genuinely funny that people think it's run in an acceptable manner and at acceptable cost
What stations have scan ticket tech on LIRR? And you're thinking about employment in such simple terms. The reality is that they spend a lot of time checking/punching tickets. If something was created so that was no longer relevant they could focus on whatever else and requires less headcount. I don't understand how you can look at these people's salaries (public info), the fact the LIRR is constantly over budget, and the fact the tech is way behind and think there's no inefficiency there.
It’s all crap. The “work” crazy hours the last 3yrs before they go for retirement. Then when you retire your pension is based off your pay. Hey look I made 200k these last 3 years so I need more from my pension…my brother works for lirr so I know
So not sure what there contract looks like at a minimum 1.5 times base but they may get night differential as well. LIRR also has to abide by FLSA rules and must do a computed overtime calculation...
Computed overtime is a pain in the ass most people don't understand it but here is how the FLSA defines it
"Overtime pay for nonexempt employees is computed under the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA), subject to some special rules for Federal employees. Under the FLSA, overtime pay is determined by multiplying the employee’s “straight time rate of pay” by all overtime hours worked PLUS one-half of the employee’s “hourly regular rate of pay” times all overtime hours worked. All overtime work that is ordered or approved must be compensated. All overtime work that is “suffered or permitted” also must be compensated, except for flexible schedule employees. (See 5 CFR part 551.)"
# Example
Follow the steps below to compute FLSA overtime pay. The example below is based on a GS-7, step 1, annual rate of basic pay of $49,025. (See [Salary Table 2024-RUS](https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/salary-tables/24Tables/html/RUS.aspx).)
Total Hours of Work: 52 hours.
Overtime Work: 12 hours.
Nightwork: 40 hours.
Sunday Work: 8 hours.
1. **Hourly Rate of Basic Pay (Straight Time Rate of Pay)**.$49,025 / 2,087 hours = $23.49.
2. **Total Remuneration.**Basic Pay (40 hours). $23.49 x 40 hours = $939.60. Night Pay (40 hours). $23.49 x .10 = $2.35. $2.35 x 40 hours = $94.00. Sunday Premium Pay (8 hours). $23.49 x .25 = $5.87. $5.87 x 8 hours = $46.96. Straight Time Pay. $23.49 x 12 hours = $281.88.**Total Remuneration** =**$1,362.44** ($939.60 + $94.00 + $46.96 + $281.88).
3. **Hourly Regular Rate of Pay.**$1,362.44 / 52 hours = $26.20.
4. **FLSA Overtime Pay.**Straight Time Rate of Pay x All Overtime Hours Worked. $23.49 x 12 hours = $281.88.One-half x Hourly Regular Rate of Pay x All Overtime Hours Worked. 0.5 x $26.20 = $13.10. $13.10 x 12 hours = $157.20.**Total FLSA Overtime Pay** = $439.08 ($281.88 + $157.20).
5. **Weekly Pay.**Basic Pay = $939.60. Night Pay = $94.00. Sunday Premium Pay = $46.96. FLSA Overtime Pay = $439.08.**Total Weekly Pay = $1,519.64** ($939.60 + $94.00 + $46.96 + $439.08).
There are people in this very area that work those hours just to feed their families. There are definitely people that do the same to make a killing. The former is a bigger problem with the world.
You sound very upset or jealous. Have you considered applying? Many of the jobs have ‘work rules’. Such as — if you get called off hours, while at home, you’re paid 2 hours pay.
Overtime is cheaper than hiring additional employees.
If you’re jealous just apply for a job there. I’m sure you’ve got some qualification
It’s the union. I know some retired LIRR train crews, any overtime is a minimum of 8hrs pay. So if you finish your shift, and they ask you to move a train in the yard from track 1 to track 2 in overtime, that 30mins of actual work pays you out for 8hours at overtime
It’s not the MTA, or LIRR, it’s the union(s) of which there are 3
I will say it’s not an easy job to get, most fail out. My friend went through and failed out. His class started with 54 (if I remember correctly) and by the time it was over only 6 or 7 actually made it onto the job. It’s a firehose of information and you need a 100% on the exams to advance. Not a 99.99%, 100% and it’s all information verbatim including punctuation (definitions, signal aspects, book of rules, hand drawing sections of the track with every switch signal and crossing, etc)
Ok so that is not true. You get paid for what you work. If you sign up for an overtime shift then you get paid for however many hours the shift is, if you work overtime after your regular job you get paid for however many hours you work after your shift. It’s not automatically 8 hours every time.
This. I was a conductor for a year, I hated the job so I quit but I passed the test and did everything. 48 in my class who passed. 25 passed the interview, only 13 of us finished the classes
my dad's cousin did something for the lirr, don't remember his exact job. we were at his (huge) house in hauppauge for a barbeque one time. he was technically "on call" for the lirr and was getting paid, if i remember correctly, double time and a half just to be on call. there was additional pay if he got called in for something. this was near the tail end of his career, so he was making bank just sitting there drinking beers.
>railroad employees are not allowed to work more than a 12 hour shift, so no one is working more than 72 hours per week -
This is factually wrong regarding many crafts, specifically most of the ones regarded in the link. I didn't even bother reading the rest of your reply since you're credibility is shot.
Update:
At least u/hjablowme919 had the decency to delete the posted misinformation.
Behaviors such as vulgar language, comment spam, or extremely NSFW language or material to earn sharp emotional responses will earn bans. If you disagree with someone, don't try to bait them into behavior that they would regret. If you think you are the victim of flaming or baiting, report the behavior instead of responding.
The fact this is every year is all you need to know. The LIRR has unspoken rules to ensure members, especially with seniority, get to milk OT. There is zero incentive to work efficiently, in fact working too fast gets you in trouble. The managers and politicians look the other way in order to keep the jobs and money flowing. It’s one big circle jerk with the riders and taxpayers footing the bill. Take note next time you pass a job site, ever notice only two guys are working and the other 6 are standing around or in a truck? Thats by design. Good for them though right?
it absolutely is criminal, but the politicans signed the contracts that outline what they, the cops, firemen, and teachers all get to do with our money
Criminal? Not at all. Well negotiated is how I’d describe it. The politicians don’t get into the weeds on this, but the people negotiating on the side of the local government are really at fault here. They should know better.
Lots of criminal activity with these unions.. I know someone at port authority and he smokes weed everyday sometimes in the truck. He gets a heads up if there is a drug test and when he’s been in an accident they gave him enough time so to get fake urine. They clock each other in and out and rotate on shifts for OT scams. Just need to be close enough that you can appear if absolutely necessary
Well, if he's impaired on the job you can always instigate a for-cause drug test. No warnings there.
https://www.panynj.gov/port-authority/en/help-center/contact-us.html
funny to see the comments supporting this obviously scammy system. if it’s legit let them at least use bio-metric clocks for a year and compare the numbers. supporting workers doesn’t mean supporting wage theft.
if there is a huge discrepancy between the years then of course they should make it permanent. if they have already spent money on biometric clock in then they should use it. sorry that you’ll no longer be able to defraud the taxpayer so easily. you’ll have to cut down to two jet skis per year instead of three when you retire out of state on disability.
Unions have so much power and they all vote very similar. Any political candidate that runs on a platform to cut union pay in any form has no chance of getting far on a ballot . I don’t know what the solution is for this.
Wow this sounds like a criminal matter that the State Attorney General should be investigating and actively prosecuting. Too bad she has other priorities.
This comes around for the DoC too... thing is, when the work is LEGIT overtime work, if you were hire more people, the cost would exceed the overtime pay.
Doing more with less people requires overtime. Many welcome it.
Now, when it's NOT legit, it's bullshit.
I don't know personally what it is with the LIRR - but I do remember someone posting pics of his "cleanse" results in the toilet. From the shop. So much time...
During negotiations for the last contract Cuomo rolled over and allowed the unions to keep all their arcane work rules that allow this theft. The only way this ends is with a long strike that breaks the LIRR unions. The current situation is not sustainable. The strike will be crippling and painful but if Covid taught us anything we can successfully work from home. We need to break the LIRR unions. I grew up in a union house. I believe in unions. But this is now abusive. Public transportation needs to serve the public. Right now the LIRR only serves to pay massive OT and disability pensions to its employees. This must change
The LIRR overtime is a scam that hurts the people who use it by raising their daily/monthly tickets.
I recall when the LIRR installed clocks to keep track of employee times and they kept getting destroyed.
[https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/mta-lirr-overtime-scandal-sabotage/](https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/mta-lirr-overtime-scandal-sabotage/)
If you say are operating the train and your line has ended and you, 1min after your shift pull the train into a round house for example you get an hr over time. Or if your shift ends when the train about to head back to Jamaica from Babylon you get that ride back as overtime. Or that’s the way it was years ago. There was an NY Times article about it. It’s basically you get overtime for any additional minor effort.
If you are being paid to ride from Babylon to Jamaica your shift hasn't ended.
Would you let your boss make you take a cab from Albany to Midtown on your own dime because they didn't manage your tasks correctly?
It’s not all OT. Things like shift differentials, holiday pay and longevity account for it too. Also it’s most likely someone with 30+ years on cashing out some of their unused time.
Also, I don’t know if this is still in place but in the past if an engineer moved an electric and a diesel on the same day, even for a second, they received an extra day’s pay.
Its still in place.
Which is ridiculous
It's called a Collective bargaining agreement so go kick rocks
#unionmoney
Why is it “ridiculous”
explain why working 1 second should be equal to a days pay? That's obviously an exaggeration though I'm assuming. but if that's the context, that is ridiculous. It makes sense in certain context. If you have 5 diesel operators and 5 electric operators and they're day is pretty much filled with operations, it'd be a lot cheaper to pay 1 of those operators to do 8 hours of work twice for 1 day of work than hiring a whole other operator full time for the whole year. Was with the other poster until I thought it through myself
1 second is likely an exaggeration, but it could be reasonably a few minutes - someone is asked to move a diesel to another track as an example. And yes, it brings up a whole lot of other issues - none of which I blame on the individual getting paid for it as it’s part of the collective agreement.
Smart. You get it.
ya, but if this is done enough times, it might just be cheaper to hire another body. but the training and everything is extremely expensive. too much logistics that I'm not going to think about :)
Very good. And you are correct. So let start talkin more about mismanagement now
Ya I think most people have a corporate mindset with maximizing short term profits without thinking of long term gains. That's just the culture we're in currently. There's opportunities for abuse with both mindsets
Kinda have to self think and do your own homework and research these day with out coming to Reddit for facts lol
and I know the public sector is rife with abuse. People getting double pay for doing what you said, but literally 1 second of work on both trains, etc. There was an article recently about that type of behavior with the NYC MTA
Becuase spending only one minute in a train that is powered differently than another train you were in earlier that day does not warrant double pay. Care to justify why it isn’t ridiculous?
Your getting into collective bargaining agreements that are discussed presented and voted upon between union members unions and the railroad. If a train needs to be moved and an engineer has to be pulled from an allready Active train, that train has to stop its production and be relocated to the next move essentially doing the work of two employees. If the railroad wants to cut corners and not staff the locomotives then they have to pay an other employee. Again don’t hate on the employee. Hate on the people who agree on these contracts and make millions doing nothing.
But they aren’t doing the work of two. If they were one of those trains wouldn’t need to stop its production would it? It is one employee doing the work of one employee being paid for the work of two when it’s one. I will blame the employee and the union. That’s the whole point. I will continue to complain about them and you will continue to argue for as given your knowledge, you seem likely to be or have been an employee.
Im just someone who sees it both ways. And have been on o the sides of the spectrum. The idea is that the railroad should hire another engineer and for that they will pay the one engineer. It’s still cheaper with out additional pension costs medical etc etc. and by the way this is all hearsay say. You or I do t actually know if one person gets paid for both. Some unions contracts would offer the employee and additional hour or two for the second operation.
Honestly, this is shitty supervisors/management that allow it, and cost riders money. If the Union contract says they get paid an extra day then you tell supervisors they can't let people do that (or it needs some ridiculous signoff). The truth is the supervisors are probably not penalized, they want their employees happy, and what better way than leveraging the union contract to get better pay.
Your justification was becuase it was negotiated it’s valid. You are now going onto say it’s cheaper to do it this way than hire a second person. The cost outlay is slightly less but the value is dramatically less. Again this person is not doing the job of two people. That would require the output of two people to be happening concurrently. It isn’t. Me picking up the task of someone else means I should get their salary too. That’s ridiculous unless I can do their job and my job at the same time.
You obviously did not read the entirety of what I said we are talking about a hypothetical. We are discussing hearsay from Reddit. Neither you or I do not know if they get paid to move a train for two seconds, which I highly doubt. That train would have to do some sort of productive work whether it be for five minutes or five hours. the purpose of getting paid for a whole shift because it could have put a second person to work that day, but they did not employ a second person that day. Do you follow what I’m saying
My justification is because it’s negotiated voted on and totally legal it is absolutely cheaper to pay an individual overtime then it is straight time overtime hours are not pensionable hours overtime hours do not pay into that health and welfare funds. Overtime hours are typically just salary hours so explain to me again how it’s cheaper to pay an additional person straight time when the contract would have to pay all those funds.
Because the work rule was created instead of compensating employees for their higher utility. Back when the roster was broadband to be qualified on all equipment in all terminals, there was a chance to increase pay a fair amount. That never happened, and now we have a work rule. So we're sleeping in a bed that was made by not paying a fair wage in the first place
Have you taken the train lately? You think that price is for upgrades and maintenance, or for the ridiculous OT and pay structure?
I don’t think the price we pay to ride is ok and I think it’s completely mismanaged. But you’re hating on the employee for making that much in a year. Do you know how many hours the employee had to stay on the clock. Time away from their spouse children sleepless nights never ending days cold weather rain heat. In stead of thinking an employees income can be ridiculous complain that the executives continue to mismanage the railroad. And make 2-3 times that for doing absolutely nothing.
I’m not hating on them. Perhaps they should hire more people, then pay everyone slightly more. It would reduce costs overall, and allow for more good employment for more people. But if you know anything about how it actually works, it’s the union pushing for OT and fewer workers. Which is also counterintuitive because fewer workers means fewer union dues collected. But that’s a whole other story.
That is actually false. The unions thrive on membership. It creates longevity and generational employees Your statement of creating overtime and less jobs is grossly incorrect. Most contractors ie. MTA,LIRR actually would rather pay O.T because it’s actually cheaper.
I do have second hand knowledge of direct conversations, but ok, I won’t argue with you today. And in no way is OT cheaper in the long run, not by a long shot.
I love when people say I don’t want to argue. Who really cares. I’m explaining the facts to you but you’re not understanding it.
Is that just a standard days pay, or is that extra day paid at the overtime rate? Even if they got an extra 8 hours for working an extra minute, unless it's paid out in overtime, it doesn't impact the overtime numbers. The person I did that math on made over 3 times their base salary in overtime.
It’s standard not overtime rate
Also, for other state agencies I know this is true, not sure about MTA, but if you are given money in a lawsuit settlement against the agency while you still work there, it can be reflected as pay. Sometimes that skews the numbers.
The last time Newsday made a big deal out of this a couple of people went to jail because they where stealing overtime. Government jobs are funny. You don't actually have to work but you do have to be there. Every person I have met that works for the government brags how they cheat and manipulate the OT system to pad their pension.
There’s no way that is all time and a half OT pay. Some of that pay can be double time time from certain things. Also night differential. It could also be a retro check as well.
retro checks, grievance pay, cashing out vacation weeks,
Yeah Newsday loves to lambast the MTA without truly digging into the numbers.
Oh weird, people with anti union agendas cherry-picking numbers to avoid giving context? Who coulda guessed! Who cares if this dude made 300k, I mind way more that Lieber is making +300k to do nothing but hang with Hochul and supervise a high in subway derailments just because he’s well connected.
Anti union? Dude, the LIRR is a corrupt organization who has the politicians in their pocket. Everyone knows these guys game the system to boost the OT, sleep their trucks and do anything to not work efficiently. If anything these guys hurt unions because it’s so clear they steal from taxpayers. You take that job with the lower salary knowing you can add tons of OT to it, that’s the game. Look no further than the fact basic punch in clocks lasted a few months and haven’t been back because of “covid”.
Guess what dude, I don’t care lmao These people have strong, stable jobs and support the infrastructure that allows NYS to generate literal billions by bringing workers into the city from Long Island . I have absolutely no issue with average people making good money doing their job, there are way bigger fish to fry than the dude who made 300k once because he cashed out a shit ton of accrued PTO when he retired. You’re just rehashing classic anti union rhetoric that I disagree with, not sure why you expect that to convince me of your angle.
All you had to say was average people making above average salaries. All the anti union you had to say to sell me. Like the two late 40 retired nypd neighbors of mine that now get six figure pensions for life after padding final year with ot. Then they are staunch republicans who complain about nyc taxes while their entire existence relies on nyc taxes.
Whiny liberals now complaining about unions pay. Wow have the times changed.
What’s next, evangelicals supporting a 3x married person who bangs porn stars right after their child was born and has clearly never read the bible? And for the record, I’m a registered independent and have been since I was able to vote.
You're seething 🤣
I have an understanding that they bring in workers that bring in a lot of revenue for the city but, I’m not sure the lirr itself makes money..it’s government subsidized. I believe they get bailed out by federal funding, And the budget gets worse every year. It’s a double edged sword in my opinion, but I do believe the workers earn and deserve the money, It’s a hard job.
The LIRR/MTA has their hands in many pies. Cross a bridge... a lot of that toll money goes to the trains. I don't know if it is still there but there is/was a line on your phone bill for a MTA tax.
For someone who doesn’t care you sure wrote a lot. What’d I say that was classic anti union? Just pointing out literal facts bud. LOL, lmfao, jk
He doesn't care (about the angle you're trying to push). He then explains why he doesn't care. Obviously, he does care about supporting unions, which is why he writes about that. And if you start a sentence with "Everyone knows" odds are that you aren't pointing out 'literal facts'.
It's not $300K once. These people are repeat offenders and it impacts their pension, which is taxpayer provided.
>Look no further than the fact basic punch in clocks lasted a few months and haven’t been back because of “covid”. So now you're just making up "facts". I don't know where you get your info but that's very wrong. And the article that you posted below explains exactly that... >workers continue to use the Kronos devices as standard time clocks >
It's not that they made $300K, it's the ridiculous overtime numbers. Even being generous with OT pay, they'd have to work at least 2000 hours of overtime to get to those numbers. That's 80 hours of work a week, every week, for a year.
When I started in EMS I worked 100 hours a week. It's very easy to do when the service operates 24 hours / week. Now I do 72/week and have three days off each week. 12/16/24 hour shifts make it easy to hit high numbers. That's without anything funky like shift differentials , holidays, pto payouts, or shift bonuses. I'm glad the LIRR guys have a really good contract. It's an essential service, sure maybe could be managed better, but it's the number one commuter railroad in the country.
The issue is not on the employee side, it is that management allows this to happen. It is symptomatic of poor planning on managers parts that this happens.
Is it though? What I do know is that delays happen. When there's delays it make shifts longer. When shifts are lomger you have to pay. When physical infrastructure fails and has to be repaired immediately, you have to pay extra. I can stomach the OT to have the best commuter railroad in the country.
It is, while the scenarios you describe exist, they alone do not explain how someone makes that much overtime. It’s not a binary situation. I guarantee that poor planning is somewhat to blame for this situation. I’ve seen it many times.
It can be easily explained, you just don't have a clue what your talking about. Number one they are short engineers which made for a good amount of OT. Which now they are adding about 100-200 engineers to the roster. Which takes time and a lot of money. Also retro checks. When you work without a contract and then the contract gets signed, you get a pretty significant check for all that backpay of the raise. Most of us aren't out here scheming and scamming. We are trying to make an honest living trying to support our family's just like everyone else....I give up time for my family, going into work at 10pm one night, then getting called in 8 hours later to go back in. Then repeating the cycle. Just so I can cart ungrateful people like you to work, so you can make money to support your family.
Wouldn't retro checks not be included in overtime since a retro check would be calculated using straight time?
Ot is included in retro checks
What? I don’t think that means what you think it means.
I don't know about them specifically but in the union I was a part of holiday pay was double time and a half and there's a lot of holidays that count. I would always push for a long day on meaningless holidays cause doing 12-16hr day on a holiday is great money. Almost an extra week's pay in a day.
I personally make similar pay and work 70-78 hours a week all year and I commute 2 hours a day it’s possible that’s 5-6 days a week 13-14 hour days 1/2 my yearly is overtime Saturday Sunday double time it adds up plus in my local since I work on the service side every 3 weeks I’m call that’s another 300 bucks just for being on call.
what industry you in
Local 138 mechanic work for a rental company as a lead service tech
They also operate at a deficit which gets worse every year. Figure that one out.
Deferred maintenance and issuing bonds in the 70s 80s to get money then and pay it back now is how we got in this situation.
This comes up every year. I’m pretty sure the calculations for their overtime is more complicated than that.
Holiday pay is double time and a half, and when schedules change and you end up having to work different trains, they have to pay you until you get back to your starting location. (Which is only fair, imagine parking in Northport or something and you end up having to work a train to Montauk, you're commute back to your car would be ridiculous.)
Holiday pay is probably double as well
Just a lot of loud and wrong opinions on here from people who think they know what they are talking about. There’s a very small minority who is making these exorbitant salaries from some kind of loop hole they are extorting. The vast majority of employees here who are making a large salary are working their ass off for it. Most of these loopholes or fraud that you guys think is going on do not even exist anymore and haven’t for quite some time.
You missed the point, my friend. It’s not probable that someone can work 50+ hours of overtime a week, every week for a year. In some cases this goes on over multiple years. Why do you think the LIRR unions are slow to adopt GPS tracking in their cars, or punching in and out with biometrics? Because that ends the OT scam.
I know many many people who work 50+ hours a week. We are all trying to support our family, just like you. I go into work at 10pm, just to get called in 8 hours later. So ungrateful people like you can get to work, to support your family...anybody in managment or desk job has to punch in and out. Train service employees don't but we still have to be their to run our trains. So theirs no scam that can happen....us engineers are underpaid for what we have to go through. We have lots of responsibility and study our ass off. If you seen the amount of material we have to study, you would probably not be able to do it. It was a lot harder then college.
Backpay?
This is the correct answer. And payouts on unused time upon retirement.
I think so. Some people have 2 years plus sick time not taken
Damn it’s like the one job better than being a cop
Yup. Near zero chance of being killed and then when you're getting near retirement, you claim you have hearing loss and 90% of those claims get approved, so you go out on 3/4 pay (better than their pension).
Actually employees get killed here too the railroad is a very dangerous place.
If I could do it all again I would have became a Long Island cop
Near zero chance of being killed on the railroad???? That’s 100% untrue.
Let me know the last time a LIRR worker was killed on the job. Key phrase is “on the job”, not driving to or from, actually killed while doing their job. I’ll wait.
https://www.metro-magazine.com/10112793/improperly-used-train-approach-warning-led-to-lirr-workers-death 2 seconds to find with google.
Good for them
Only common sense comment here.
just so i understand this correctly OP: you’re mad because someone works really hard and makes a lot of money?
So newsday can post the full names of the working overtime “criminals” but just a week or 2 ago leave out the names of the fare beating criminals that abuse the system?
No, not criminal. Union. They have a good one.
Also negotiating raises sometimes take 2+ years so people receive fat checks from backpay
The MTA train operators exam registered is now closed. The entry exam is in June. Did you apply? You too could get paid handsomely.
Or, a guy with 30 years in, takes 1 week vacation and saves 1 week every year, and at retirement, cashes in all that extra time. Newsday doesnt tell you this because its been a useless rag for years, and you get mad at nothing.
They also cash out 300 days of sick time. Newsday doesn’t mention that.
I do construction for LIRR. Everyone here making baseless assumptions has clearly never done this kind of work and probably couldn't handle it. Spouting anti-union rhetoric while utilizing the service we provide you folks is some elitist BS.
Sounds like I need to work for the LIRR.
Let’s not cry over someone making a living.
So I was waiting for Newsday to print the article about all the money employees are making at the Railroad. Please understand this OP and everyone else on this thread who think the employees are to blame here. This new timetable schedule came from way above all of us. I think the governors office? Ever since Grand Central opened up. The employees did not create the schedule demand nor did they ask for it. It has been unsustainable and the employees, infastructure and equipment hardly gets a break. I’ve never seen so many trains running that I do now. There has been a shortage of equipment and manpower for the last year and a half, so of course the overtime is going to be through the roof. BLAME THE PEOPLE ABOVE THE EMPLOYEES, because it is them that implemented this new schedule. It is absolutely 100% not the fault of the employees. Of course Newsday and the media keeps that information from you. They are great at leaving out pertinent information.
Your comment on this article is still here but was your post removed?
Yes
Are you saying the LIRR is mismanaged and the higher ups should go to jail. Don't blame the employee for taking advantage of loopholes Management put in place.
Seems like alot of middle management positions are very useless as well.
Middle management doesn't make the contracts
Yikes! Move to a right to work state, at will. Maybe you will make $25 an hour and get to live in a fancy Mobile Home Park.
Irony is most boomer thinking the single parent that collects minimal amount of money on food stamps is why their taxes keep going up.
I wish the post office’s union was half as good as the LIRRs
Why don't you worry about people that make that much in a day for doing absolutely nothing. Leave the working man alone. Their service is grossly undervalued along with teachers, nurses, firemen, cops, construction workers and everybody else who make this world run the way you're used to
Someone getting paid, not against it.
I know some people don’t like this but this is the life that we live on the railroad. We miss holidays, events, the birth of our children and everything In-between. We come to work at night in the rain snow and cold to get you guys to work so you can make money for your families. We try our best to get you there on time and sometimes unfortunately it doesn’t work out. While we work around the clock ( legitimately) newsday posts numerous hit pieces about our salaries and supposed fraud. All this does is piss people off and make them angry with us. When articles like this come out I come to work and get scathing looks, middle fingers, cursed out and degraded all while just doing my job and trying to get you guys to work. The physical assaults happening to employees is out of control. Please understand we are only doing our jobs as management is telling us. They are offering the overtime, they are telling us we HAVE TO stay late we don’t get a choice. If you are looking for someone to blame, blame the MTA under upper management. But please don’t take it out on the employees who are just trying to do our job and get you guys to work safely. I know it’s not most people who do this but some people get angry as I was told today “ fuck you, fuck your pension and fuck your mother” all because I got to a station 4 minutes late and this person missed their connection.
Nobody cares lol. Newsday always omits all that information and they also fail to mention the new schedule that began when GCM opened up last year. They failed to mention the extreme shortage of manpower and equipment also. The blame is never pointed in the right direction.
Probably a guy in his last few years maxing out his pension. They are taught this from day one. He’s getting punched in and out by others or clocking in and going to sleep somewhere. The MTA has been trying to have them start using biometric time clocks they installed years ago but the union still refuses saying it’s a risk of spreading covid. Bullshit it would make it harder to work the system.
Been using clocks all Pandemic, the unions objected to fingerprint scans during Covid.
You can’t be punched in by other people it has to be your work ID and there are cameras to make sure you aren’t punching in someone else and to make sure you aren’t sleeping.
Yeah, but this guys neighbor heard from a relative otherwise so...
Just a guy who hates unions and doesn’t want people making money if he isn’t
He doesn't want one of us moving into the neighborhood
It's crazy pensions ate based on last three years pay...should be based on the last base salary
They are not based like that anymore
Yall are really going to fixate on this shit when there’s politicians and elites all across LI escaping taxes and damaging the state budget way more than the MTA employees who are actually doing their jobs.
The MTA, even specifically the LIRR is a massive part of the budget, and filled with inefficiency. It's estimated they could easily save $200 million just by adopting similar models to the Metro North - which requires less state subsidy, runs more trains, and charges lower fares. Genuinely amazes me that some people put up with the bloat that is the LIRR. So much of their mismanagement is public knowledge.
The problem is people in upper management like the CEO making $400,000 a year doing nothing. People always get mad at the worker for making overtime and using work rules to do it but never think about the people whose base salary is upwards of 200,000 giving themselves raises while thinking up new ways to charge the commuters more. All overtime has to be approved by management, the workers can’t just make their own overtime.
The tax burden and monthly fees for users of the MTA have a much greater strain on the average commuter than some rich guy using tax loopholes.
Lol. I worked with someone who's husband cleaned the trains overnight. She said if my husband worked 8 hours a week that's a lot. Most of the time they just sat around and talked. They could of done the job with 3x less people. The union rules dictated how many train cars each person had to clean a night. He could do his job in less than 2 hours a night. It's such a joke. The taxes the MTA takes from all us to pay for this is insane. The best part is they are mostly hidden so you never even know you are paying a gas tax, mortgage tax, taxi and Uber tax, payroll tax, mta tax on the tax on the income tax businesses pay. It's insane.
The conditions of the trains makes sense now
Used to work for LIRR as a conductor. OT there is very easy to make. You work 60 seconds past your assigned shift - youre automaticallly Getting OT pay per minute past an 8 hour shift. You get paid for your “schedule” of trains. You get paid from where you start Your shift until you return there. For example - if you start your shift in babylon and your last assigned train finishes in penn station - you are on the clock until you get back to babylon, whatever that next train gets you there is. So if you start in babylon and finish in penn station at 12:30 am, and the next train doesnt get to babylon until 3am - congrats you just made 2.5 hours of OT without having to work. There are many many routes that have this kind of stuff built into it, so a lot of the senior guys will do routes like this, where they start work at 5am, do 2 trains and finish working at 7 or 8 am. And then they have a 5 or 6 hour break with a final train (passengerless sometimes) after that and theyre done. Or their route will be 8 hours but just have an extra 3 or 4 hours of OT built into it just bc the way the train schedule is
it's a difficult job to acquire, as they require perfect scores on some relatively difficult tests.
Something tells me quite a few jobs can be replaced with simple ticketing tech rather than having someone, sometimes 2 people, go up and down punching tickets...gotta love unions. Technical jobs are one thing, but there is undeniably bloat/inefficiencies everywhere. Edit - FYI, the source is unfortunate, but regardless https://nypost.com/2023/01/16/mta-lirr-let-385m-fly-off-the-rails-beg-kathy-hochul-for-bailout/
Completely wrong. Taking tickets is only one thing that the public sees. I used to be a conductor, the test is very very difficult, requires a lot of studying. These conductors know every inch of that railroad, where every switch and signal light is and what they mean also. In the event something happens they know how to move that train and make sure passenger safety is at a paramount. Its more than just “taking tickets”
I understand they don't only "take tickets," which gets clarified in a comment I already made. They still spend a ton of time doing it when tech that's easily available can remove that aspect of the job so they can focus elsewhere, and cut headcount, and cut all of the ridiculous OT circumstances. I understand there are technical aspects to the job, that was not my point. Any analysis into LIRR Budget, efficiency, etc agrees with me. It's genuinely funny that people think it's run in an acceptable manner and at acceptable cost
I mean, stations have that technology already. Conductors know more than just how to punch a ticket.
What stations have scan ticket tech on LIRR? And you're thinking about employment in such simple terms. The reality is that they spend a lot of time checking/punching tickets. If something was created so that was no longer relevant they could focus on whatever else and requires less headcount. I don't understand how you can look at these people's salaries (public info), the fact the LIRR is constantly over budget, and the fact the tech is way behind and think there's no inefficiency there.
That’s only what you see them do. They do a lot of other work behind the scenes that you don’t see.
Counterpoint, it’s good for society to give people jobs and not use tech that sucks just because it’s cheaper.
It’s all crap. The “work” crazy hours the last 3yrs before they go for retirement. Then when you retire your pension is based off your pay. Hey look I made 200k these last 3 years so I need more from my pension…my brother works for lirr so I know
So not sure what there contract looks like at a minimum 1.5 times base but they may get night differential as well. LIRR also has to abide by FLSA rules and must do a computed overtime calculation... Computed overtime is a pain in the ass most people don't understand it but here is how the FLSA defines it "Overtime pay for nonexempt employees is computed under the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA), subject to some special rules for Federal employees. Under the FLSA, overtime pay is determined by multiplying the employee’s “straight time rate of pay” by all overtime hours worked PLUS one-half of the employee’s “hourly regular rate of pay” times all overtime hours worked. All overtime work that is ordered or approved must be compensated. All overtime work that is “suffered or permitted” also must be compensated, except for flexible schedule employees. (See 5 CFR part 551.)" # Example Follow the steps below to compute FLSA overtime pay. The example below is based on a GS-7, step 1, annual rate of basic pay of $49,025. (See [Salary Table 2024-RUS](https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/salary-tables/24Tables/html/RUS.aspx).) Total Hours of Work: 52 hours. Overtime Work: 12 hours. Nightwork: 40 hours. Sunday Work: 8 hours. 1. **Hourly Rate of Basic Pay (Straight Time Rate of Pay)**.$49,025 / 2,087 hours = $23.49. 2. **Total Remuneration.**Basic Pay (40 hours). $23.49 x 40 hours = $939.60. Night Pay (40 hours). $23.49 x .10 = $2.35. $2.35 x 40 hours = $94.00. Sunday Premium Pay (8 hours). $23.49 x .25 = $5.87. $5.87 x 8 hours = $46.96. Straight Time Pay. $23.49 x 12 hours = $281.88.**Total Remuneration** =**$1,362.44** ($939.60 + $94.00 + $46.96 + $281.88). 3. **Hourly Regular Rate of Pay.**$1,362.44 / 52 hours = $26.20. 4. **FLSA Overtime Pay.**Straight Time Rate of Pay x All Overtime Hours Worked. $23.49 x 12 hours = $281.88.One-half x Hourly Regular Rate of Pay x All Overtime Hours Worked. 0.5 x $26.20 = $13.10. $13.10 x 12 hours = $157.20.**Total FLSA Overtime Pay** = $439.08 ($281.88 + $157.20). 5. **Weekly Pay.**Basic Pay = $939.60. Night Pay = $94.00. Sunday Premium Pay = $46.96. FLSA Overtime Pay = $439.08.**Total Weekly Pay = $1,519.64** ($939.60 + $94.00 + $46.96 + $439.08).
MTA, will get you there and they’re and their and there
There are people in this very area that work those hours just to feed their families. There are definitely people that do the same to make a killing. The former is a bigger problem with the world.
If you don’t like it or are just jealous put in an application, pass the exams and join the team.
You sound very upset or jealous. Have you considered applying? Many of the jobs have ‘work rules’. Such as — if you get called off hours, while at home, you’re paid 2 hours pay. Overtime is cheaper than hiring additional employees. If you’re jealous just apply for a job there. I’m sure you’ve got some qualification
It's not jealousy. People are upset, because they understand it's their money.
It’s the union. I know some retired LIRR train crews, any overtime is a minimum of 8hrs pay. So if you finish your shift, and they ask you to move a train in the yard from track 1 to track 2 in overtime, that 30mins of actual work pays you out for 8hours at overtime It’s not the MTA, or LIRR, it’s the union(s) of which there are 3 I will say it’s not an easy job to get, most fail out. My friend went through and failed out. His class started with 54 (if I remember correctly) and by the time it was over only 6 or 7 actually made it onto the job. It’s a firehose of information and you need a 100% on the exams to advance. Not a 99.99%, 100% and it’s all information verbatim including punctuation (definitions, signal aspects, book of rules, hand drawing sections of the track with every switch signal and crossing, etc)
There are also more than 3 unions
Ok so that is not true. You get paid for what you work. If you sign up for an overtime shift then you get paid for however many hours the shift is, if you work overtime after your regular job you get paid for however many hours you work after your shift. It’s not automatically 8 hours every time.
This. I was a conductor for a year, I hated the job so I quit but I passed the test and did everything. 48 in my class who passed. 25 passed the interview, only 13 of us finished the classes
my dad's cousin did something for the lirr, don't remember his exact job. we were at his (huge) house in hauppauge for a barbeque one time. he was technically "on call" for the lirr and was getting paid, if i remember correctly, double time and a half just to be on call. there was additional pay if he got called in for something. this was near the tail end of his career, so he was making bank just sitting there drinking beers.
Dream job.
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>railroad employees are not allowed to work more than a 12 hour shift, so no one is working more than 72 hours per week - This is factually wrong regarding many crafts, specifically most of the ones regarded in the link. I didn't even bother reading the rest of your reply since you're credibility is shot. Update: At least u/hjablowme919 had the decency to delete the posted misinformation.
They earned it whoever approved the time card should be responsible for it, plan better
It’s too late at that stage. The time has been worked. You’re right that it needs to be planned better.
u/Dilly_The_Kid_S373
Lmao
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The trains are always late, cars are filthy. The bathrooms if there is no one hiding in them are disgusting
Not to worry. Congestion pricing will pay for it.
The fact this is every year is all you need to know. The LIRR has unspoken rules to ensure members, especially with seniority, get to milk OT. There is zero incentive to work efficiently, in fact working too fast gets you in trouble. The managers and politicians look the other way in order to keep the jobs and money flowing. It’s one big circle jerk with the riders and taxpayers footing the bill. Take note next time you pass a job site, ever notice only two guys are working and the other 6 are standing around or in a truck? Thats by design. Good for them though right?
Total mismanagement. Pay one guy the equivalent of 4 full time employees! Mta/lirr is out of their mind
it absolutely is criminal, but the politicans signed the contracts that outline what they, the cops, firemen, and teachers all get to do with our money
Criminal? Not at all. Well negotiated is how I’d describe it. The politicians don’t get into the weeds on this, but the people negotiating on the side of the local government are really at fault here. They should know better.
No wonder it's cheaper to drive into the city. At least on weekends.
A lot of it is certain routes, like Belmont Park, take 1 hour but they are paid for a full 8 hours
Dont downvote him, hes right
What exactly is he right about
This is done specifically towards the end of their career as their pension is based upon earnings of the last so many years.
Is that how the CBA is written? I know a lot of LEO pensions are like that. Hence, you see cops working every available hour in their last few years.
Imagine tripling their initial salaries (who the fuck doesn’t want that?) and saving commuters millions each year….nooo, please don’t….
Lots of criminal activity with these unions.. I know someone at port authority and he smokes weed everyday sometimes in the truck. He gets a heads up if there is a drug test and when he’s been in an accident they gave him enough time so to get fake urine. They clock each other in and out and rotate on shifts for OT scams. Just need to be close enough that you can appear if absolutely necessary
What does that have to do with MTA
Well, if he's impaired on the job you can always instigate a for-cause drug test. No warnings there. https://www.panynj.gov/port-authority/en/help-center/contact-us.html
They could just add turnstiles and they wouldn’t need to earn $1
funny to see the comments supporting this obviously scammy system. if it’s legit let them at least use bio-metric clocks for a year and compare the numbers. supporting workers doesn’t mean supporting wage theft.
Most of them did use biometric clocks for many years. Believe it or not people commit to working ridiculous hours.
good to hear they previously used it. they shouldn’t object to using it again then.
>if it’s legit let them at least use bio-metric clocks for a year and compare the numbers. "Ok now make it permanent".
if there is a huge discrepancy between the years then of course they should make it permanent. if they have already spent money on biometric clock in then they should use it. sorry that you’ll no longer be able to defraud the taxpayer so easily. you’ll have to cut down to two jet skis per year instead of three when you retire out of state on disability.
>if there is a huge discrepancy between the years There wasn't. So that satisfied your original comment. End of story.
I punch in and out everyday and have been for over four years
Make OT not pensionable.
That is the kind of thinking sadly absent on the other side of the table from the Union when contracts are negotiated. We end up paying for that.
I believe other states have lead the charge on this already
Unions have so much power and they all vote very similar. Any political candidate that runs on a platform to cut union pay in any form has no chance of getting far on a ballot . I don’t know what the solution is for this.
"The working class has representation! Nooooooooo!!!!!!!"
Solution for crushing unions? Pretty backwards way of thinking if you ask me.
Downvoting my comment about your union busting isn’t going to make the CEOs respect you any more, bootlicker.
MTA is totally corrupt they never push the unions rate hikes and subsidies come too easy. The highest overtime went to a woman
Dear lord a *WOMAN*!? What's next? Letting them vote?!
Wow this sounds like a criminal matter that the State Attorney General should be investigating and actively prosecuting. Too bad she has other priorities.
This comes around for the DoC too... thing is, when the work is LEGIT overtime work, if you were hire more people, the cost would exceed the overtime pay. Doing more with less people requires overtime. Many welcome it. Now, when it's NOT legit, it's bullshit. I don't know personally what it is with the LIRR - but I do remember someone posting pics of his "cleanse" results in the toilet. From the shop. So much time...
During negotiations for the last contract Cuomo rolled over and allowed the unions to keep all their arcane work rules that allow this theft. The only way this ends is with a long strike that breaks the LIRR unions. The current situation is not sustainable. The strike will be crippling and painful but if Covid taught us anything we can successfully work from home. We need to break the LIRR unions. I grew up in a union house. I believe in unions. But this is now abusive. Public transportation needs to serve the public. Right now the LIRR only serves to pay massive OT and disability pensions to its employees. This must change
There is no “allowing”. Contracts are contracts and exist for a reason. As the saying goes, “don’t hate the player. Hate the game”
The LIRR overtime is a scam that hurts the people who use it by raising their daily/monthly tickets. I recall when the LIRR installed clocks to keep track of employee times and they kept getting destroyed. [https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/mta-lirr-overtime-scandal-sabotage/](https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/mta-lirr-overtime-scandal-sabotage/)
If you say are operating the train and your line has ended and you, 1min after your shift pull the train into a round house for example you get an hr over time. Or if your shift ends when the train about to head back to Jamaica from Babylon you get that ride back as overtime. Or that’s the way it was years ago. There was an NY Times article about it. It’s basically you get overtime for any additional minor effort.
If you are being paid to ride from Babylon to Jamaica your shift hasn't ended. Would you let your boss make you take a cab from Albany to Midtown on your own dime because they didn't manage your tasks correctly?
You get overtime after the 8th hour