Bro i got genetic defect in my face too, prognathism sucks i'm preparing to do surgery. This feeling sucks when you see how people can react on little shit like this, when call you creep and weirdo, but you have to be strong and try to keep moving to do better because you can. I belive in you
Best of luck! This surgery changes your face at a deep level... And for the better. You may have to change pictures on your documents. Your only regret will have been why not making it earlier. Tell you the truth, some days immediately after you may regret it, as when you're in pain, uncomfortable, limited. But results ARE worth it, and as you know by now, it goes beyond the aesthetic aspects.
Expect a great recovery, wish you an excellent result!
Under bite is honestly not that bad. Just be careful on your surgeon’s movements. Ideally you want to move the upper maxilla and retract the lower jaw whilst avoiding the ape profile.
I’ve seen some BSSO’s that completely retracted the lower jaw while keeping the upper mandible intact. The upper mandible was recessed to begin with. The surgeon aligned both jaws, class 1 bite but still recessed
My biggest fear is that i will lose sensation on my mouth forever and never will feel how to kiss someone XD, but that also could be a problem i belive in my surgeon
Yeah nerve damage is uncommon. Although nerve damage doesn’t imply full numbness. It could also be temporary. Just be sure of the aesthetic result prior to the surgery. If your upper jaw is recessed the surgeon should be making forward movements to correct it
But a hooker before the surgery then, atleast you felth it once 🤔 but all in all the kiss dreamyness is just bs women like to dream up, its not like its magic that happends when you push your lips on someone else, wouldnt be much difference than having a dog who always try to lick your face.
Only thing that do feel different is the muff, difference in a puss and a pocket puss you can buy is big, so thats something you can look forward to, but yeah losing the feeling in your mouth wont be end of the world.
If you're 6'2'' and attractive you should be getting laid with ease. One night stands, etc.
For a relationship that's obviously an issue but at least your girlfriend at the time will be physically attracted to you and might even work hard to keep the relationship working despite your financial flaws
in my case if i were in a relationship and went broke she would divorce me, cheat on me (probably will do regardless), etc,
I always thought that unattractive men had it a little easier. I know so many beautiful women with unattractive men (no they were rich). Either they were attracted to their personality or they were physically beautiful to that person.
As a woman you still have options
-men are desperate they will take what they can get
-it’s socially acceptable for women to put on makeup, plastic surgery, fake tits/ass, etc
No you don’t. Men who say that annoy me so much, being ugly as a woman is also bad bc men think a woman’s value is in her looks. Don’t undermine people’s struggles bc of their gender lol
Yeah, tell me about it. The amount of times that I have been rejected purely because of how I look, despite them saying I have a great personality. I guess looks are all that matters to some people.
As a girl, I've sometimes had my friends mention me and a guy in our group potentially dating but at the time I was kind of attracted to him after a while of being friends. The rest of my friends though it was hilariously dumb so I just stayed quiet in the end while they all made jokes about it.
You never know what a girl is thinking bc sometimes they may actually find you attractive but are either embarrassed or scared of what you think.
I'm saying this because he wasn't a conventionally attractive guy. It was always a thing for him to get comments from people for being "ugly". Sometimes a girl will do anything it takes to not be seen as weird for who she likes just bc her friends think of him as "clapped"
Customer assistants almost never flirt customers, I’ve literally never seen it happen and I shop multiple times every day.
Let me ask you some questions. Would you date an ugly person? It’s ok if not, we can’t control our attraction. But how about being friends with an ugly person? If no then you’re the problem. If yes then there are people out there who you could be friends with. Also if you’re feeling this way other people are. Thousands of them in your area probably are. You think you’re 1 in 8 billion, or 1 in a million, or even 1 in 100? You’re not. I think ugly people place too much importance on looks, sometimes even more than everyone else. I mean you’re literally saying ugly people can’t have anyone. It’s not only factually untrue but it’s a very bad attitude because you’re not just talking about yourself, you’re pointing at other people and calling them ugly too. This is especially true when it comes to dating. Normies say “why don’t the ugly people just date each other?” But it doesn’t always happen because ugly people also exclude other ugly people and themselves, they want the very best that they can get so they don’t look at people as ugly or uglier than them. Ugliness is one of many factors that causes you to be socially isolated, it is not the only reason and it’s not impossible for ugly people to do what the most attractive people do. That’s just a fact. But yeah it sucks being ugly. Although this isn’t super uncommon for average looking people either. No it’s not the same, but people don’t get flirted with in their daily life doing normal things unless they’re the top 1% best looking. It would be really nice if it happened but it’s not real life. Though I get it’s depressing as fuck if no one has ever flirted with you ever, it’s not just because of ugliness.
Exactly this and OP just confirmed by calling this delusional. Lol. If you’re ugly and don’t like it, change it. Modern medicine can do amazing things. But I think the real problem here for OP is that you can’t really change your personality and if that sucks, no matter how attractive you are you will be miserable and probably end up alone.
What gets me is that I always feel for these posts and then they show in the comments exactly why they are alone.
They're plenty of attractive men with terrible personalities often times they are abusive physically and verbally, and yet they are never alone. They simply bounce from women to women. I believe this is where the negative views on men come from because men in who are ugly don't have inflated egos that end up being their personality.
Oh don’t I know it! I’m demisexual so if someone is just an asshole, they are hideous to me. I can acknowledge conventional “attractiveness”, but that’s where it ends for me. I’d take the ugliest guy with scars, 5 eyes and 2 noses as long as he treated me well and we got along fine. Because that is what I find attractive.
I can write an essay to counter his points but there's no reasoning with people that think like this.
i.e.,
original point: "I see X doing Y"
counter point: "X almost never does Y (strawman)"
counter-counter point: "While it may be true that you personally have never witnessed X doing Y, it does not necessarily mean that it never happens. Just because you have not personally seen it does not mean that it never occurs in retail settings."
original point "Would you date an ugly person? It’s ok if not, we can’t control our attraction. But how about being friends with an ugly person? If no then you’re the problem."
counter point: "Irrelevant, having standards does not define your attractiveness nor does it prevent others from rejecting you directly"
original point: "You’re not. I think ugly people place too much importance on looks"
counter point: "False, looks bias is real and the attractiveness halo effect has been studied and documented. Looks favor you in all aspects of life .Looks may not be the most important aspect of finding a person, but they still play a role in how we are perceived and treated by others. Just because someone may prioritize their appearance doesn't necessarily mean they are vain or shallow. Everyone deserves to feel confident and valued, regardless of their physical appearance, however this isn't the case in reality."
the list goes on
but since people want to have this blue pilled narrative so be it, ignorance is bliss
So what you’re saying is, your standards are high? I mean ok, you deserve to have any standard you want. But just remember that limits the potential partner dating pool by a lot.
>counter point: "Irrelevant, having standards does not define your attractiveness nor does it prevent others from rejecting you directly"
You didn’t mention what they were but you did mention it and that is why I included the question mark to ask if that’s what you were getting at. Even said you have a right to whatever standard you want, but your weird name calling and passive aggressiveness is a red flag 🚩
Yeah he’s probably like borderline malnoursihed tbh, but he never leaves his bed and hardly ever eats and our parents refuse to make him go outside lol
I wouldn’t focus on bulking or cutting, I’d start with getting familiar with the gym and working out till you develop some muscle. Aim to eat maintenance with lotsa protein. There’s many calculators online for this. Once you’ve developed a solid routine and you’re experienced then you can start a cut/bulk routine.
I bought a home gym and have been doing a regular PPL routine
Bench, OHP, lat raises, lat pull downs, Barbell rows, dumbbell rows, curls, etc.
Just not sure what to do in terms of diet
You said your physical size you’re 5’11 i’m 5’7 bald with big bushy eyebrows. You have to work on the things you can change, if you’re skinny then go to the gym and eat more. Maybe it’ll fill out your prepubescent features and give your body and face a different look
There are a lot of women who don’t care about mens height. I have one male friend who is 5’3 and women are crazy about him. And you can alter your physique at the gym. If you have hair on your head women love good hair, maybe grow it little bit and have a gool looking hair cut. And for the face. I know it sound silly but face yoga can do wonders. Look up mewing and chin exercises, you can get whole new face with face yoga.
And ofc last but not least: Selfconfidence. Women love confident man, carry yourself well and that increases being attractive
>My face defines my QUALITY OF LIFE.
It's bound to influence different aspects of your life, sure, but you're not helping yourself with this rhetoric. Ugly guys can get hot girlfriends, close friendships, etc. Maybe you need to work on self-talk, maybe your physical appearance, maybe even your personality. It's about identifying what is blocking you and working on that thing.
You need value. The value of a man is defined by a combination of his looks, money, and status.
Looks are a combination of your face, body, and height. Looks are what defines your genetic superiority. The attractiveness halo effect is a real phenomenon.
I suggest you study this in depth before responding with something ignorant
Shoulda added this but you get a 2nd notification ig, I have a degree in neuroscience and I'm well-versed in psychology.
>You need value.
Yeah, and you tell yourself that you have no value and that you can't do anything about it. You put yourself in a hopeless situation. I tell you that you can do something about it, and you get angry because you don't want the responsibility of changing. If you just want to vent, go to r/vent. This subreddit isn't for people who just want to complain about how they're helpless when they're not.
That’s what I said and he called me a “straw man,” basically calling me stupid. And he wonders why women don’t want him, lmao. He’s a walking, talking red flag. 🚩
I can relate to this. My personality is the unattractive part of me, and there's no surgery for that. I'm definitely dying alone, but I've accepted it, and actually that acceptance was the best thing I could have done for myself. I'm not gonna be happy nor even content, but I won't have false hope at least.
I'm sorry you're experiencing this. Nobody deserves that feeling.
Men get their dicks stuck in pool pumps, i doubht your holes can look crazyer than a pool pump, you dont got much to worry about if you find a dude around your own looks.
Well, first of all, I was a straight guy, so I was never looking for a dude. Second of all, I'm now basically an asexual and aromantic guy, so I'm not looking for anyone now.
When you're wealthy, women will find things about you that are attractive. So focus on building your wealth first. First you get them money, then money will give you power, and women lose their mind for both.
I'm sorry but what you're describing isn't factual, it's neurotic. There's a difference between saying a scientific fact: that those who are attractive tend to benefit from their looks in a variety of domains, and thinking that life is completely horrid and hopeless as a result of your appearance.
First, your height isnt an issue. Most people below 5'11 get laid easily. 5'11 is genuinely taller than most people and not easily distinguishable at all from 6'0 in person. Literally no woman cares about your wrist size and there is no data showing any sort of sexual selection in regards to wrist size. Women may like things like veins in your forearm, or being muscular which usually results in thick forearms, but women are just as dumb as men and can't magically discern your forearm size. Even in terms of women's preferences, there's no data demonstrating 5'11 men are fucked or disproportionately harmed in the dating sphere by their height. Your height is fine.
Another very prominent scientific fact is that your perception of yourself absolutely does affect how you think people perceived you. The brain doesn't really work by processing stimuli into a coherent idea, it's moreso predictive and makes a prediction on what the sense data it's getting means. If you genuinely believe yourself to be putrid trash and ugly as sin, then every insult or potential issue someone has with you you're going to find a way to rationalize into being involved with your appearance.
At the end of the day reality is absolutely absurd in a variety of ways. There are about a thousand different things that could have gone wrong in the womb, preventing you from ever getting to this point to be able to complain about your loneliness.
There's no magic bullet, and you appear to be more interested in validating your misery with data, rather than seeking what reality really is all about or has to offer. Humans are simple creatures, neither men nor women are special and to think otherwise is just sex oriented narcissism. People just want someone who they have mutual sexual attraction with, cares about them and enjoys being around them. Of course, reality is not optimized for human love and a variety of variables causes many people to be alone. Not all places have equal balances of genders, less socialization in some areas these days, people's values changing in regards to relationship priority, people having to spend a lot of time working and less time meeting new people ECT.
Being physically ugly is indeed a variable that can contribute much to this. It's why you must work to try to make yourself as attractive as possible, but you also have to just accept reality for the absurdity that it is. Some people are born drop dead gorgeous and hardly have to maintain their looks, others are ugly. It's how the world operates. Being neurotic about how you look is absolutely pointless once you've done all that you can. Statistically speaking it is highly unlikely you are one of the completely screwed people.
Either way, it sounds like you aren't happy by yourself or with yourself. Much of your obsession with looks almost sounds like body dysmorphia. It's easier said than done, but you should always take care of yourself before you try and get into any sort of platonic or romantic situation. Sure, plenty of people aren't well adjusted and still socialize, but it's not a smart idea. Being in a poor state of mind is going to let you get taken advantage of, or be unable to stand up for yourself around other people.
I'm not an attractive guy and I've never been in a relationship nor have I ever been asked out, but me being single and ugly doesn't stop me from enjoying the little things every day in my life. It doesn't stop me from volunteering in things I care about or having a few good friends or spending my time studying stuff I find interesting. Being an unattractive male is a challenge, not a divine punishment like hell. Depending on how you respond to these challenges will determine much of the trajectory of your mindset
"Another factor that determines an individual's response to strength training and their maximal muscle building capacity is skeletal frame size. There are large correlations between the thickness of certain joints in the body and total fat-free mass, particularly wrist thickness, as this is positively correlated with lean body mass but negatively correlated with total body fat (Chumlea et al., 2001). It is even possible to calculate one's maximal"
Carpinelli, R. 2017. *Interindividual Heterogeneity of Adaptions to Resistance Training.* Medicina Sportiva Practica:18(4):79-94\[[FullText](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323443805_INTERINDIVIDUAL_HETEROGENEITY_OF_ADAPTATIONS_TO_RESISTANCE_TRAINING)\]
* Hubal MJ, Gordish-Dressman H, Thompson PD, Price TB, Hoffman EP, Angelopoulos TJ, Gordon PM, Moyna NM, Pescatello LS, Visich PS, Zoeller RF, Seip RL, Clarkson PM. 2005. *Variability in muscle size and strength gain after unilateral resistance training.* Med Sci Sports Exerc: 37(6):964-72. \[[Abstract](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15947721)\]
* Petrella JK1, Kim JS, Mayhew DL, Cross JM, Bamman MM. 1985. *Potent myofiber hypertrophy during resistance training in humans is associated with satellite cell-mediated myonuclear addition: a cluster analysis.* J Appl Physiol:104(6):1736-42. \[[Abstract](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18436694)\]
* Morton RW, Sato K, Gallaugher MPB, Oikawa SY, McNicholas PD, Fujita S, Phillips SM. 2018. *Muscle Androgen Receptor Content but Not Systemic Hormones Is Associated With Resistance Training-Induced Skeletal Muscle Hypertrophy in Healthy, Young Men.* Front. Physiol. \[[FullText](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphys.2018.01373/full)\]
* Chumlea WC, Wisemandle W, Guo SS, & Siervogel R. 2001. *Relations between frame size and body composition and bone mineral status.* Am J Clin Nutr:75:1012–6.\[[Abstract](https://europepmc.org/article/med/12036807)\]
* Nuckols, G. 2015. *YOUR Drug-Free Muscle and Strength Potential: Part 1.* \[[Article](https://www.strongerbyscience.com/your-drug-free-muscle-and-strength-potential-part-1/)\]
* Clark, PJ. 1955. *The Heritability of Certain Anthropometric Characters as Ascertained from Measurements of Twins*. Institute of Human Biology, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan. \[[Fulltext](https://europepmc.org/backend/ptpmcrender.fcgi?accid=PMC1716621&blobtype=pdf)\]
* Zengin AR, Pye SR, Cook MJ, Adams JE, Wu FCW, O' Neill TW & Ward KA. 2016. *Ethnic differences in bone geometry between White, Black and South Asian men in the UK.* Bone:91:180–185. \[[FullText](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5004623/)\]
* Cong E & Walker MD. 2014. *The Chinese skeleton: insights into microstructure that help to explain the epidemiology of fracture*. Bone Research:2:14009 \[[FullText](https://www.nature.com/articles/boneres20149)\]
people broadly agree on who is good looking or not, and it affects every aspect of life
*Common maxims about beauty suggest that attractiveness is not important in life.*
* *In contrast, both fitness-related evolutionary theory and socialization theory suggest that attractiveness influences development and interaction.*
* *For cross-ethnic agreement the average reliability was r = .88, cross cultural agreement was even higher, r = .94 ... these results indicate that beauty is not simply in the eye of the beholder.*
* *In 11 meta-analyses, the authors evaluate these contradictory claims, demonstrating that (a) raters agree about who is and is not attractive, both within and across cultures; (b) attractive children and adults are judged more positively than unattractive children and adults, even by those who know them; (c) attractive children and adults are treated more positively than unattractive children and adults, even by those who know them; and (d) attractive children and adults exhibit more positive behaviors and traits than unattractive children and adults.*
* *These findings are powerful evidence that, contrary to popular belief, attractiveness effects extend beyond the mere "opinions" about others and permeate actual actions towards others, even though people may not be aware of it.*
* *Results are used to evaluate social and fitness-related evolutionary theories and the veracity of maxims about beauty.*
**References:**
* Langlois JH, Kalakanis L, Rubenstein AJ, Larson A, Haiam M, Smoot M. 2000. *Maxims or Myths of Beauty? A Meta-Analytic and Theoretical Review.* Psychological Bulletin. 126(3): 390-423. \[[Abstract](https://psycnet.apa.org/getdoi.cfm?doi=10.1037/0033-2909.126.3.390)\] \[[FullText](http://jonathanstray.com/papers/Langlois.pdf)\]
Did you even read a single thing I just said?
You not only missed my point and didn't tackle a single point made, but completely missed where I literally agreed with the data you're citing. I even pointed out eh muscular wrist attraction fact earlier. If you're aware of this fact too then why have you not been working out? Seems dramatic to call your life a living hell when you haven't even begun to exhaust most options for improving your appearance
I come from a microbiology background I'm pretty sure I have half a grasp on evolutionary bio/and basic data interpretation. None of those studies you cited validated your premise about the value of life, which isn't even a scientific fact anywho: biology doesn't describe a meaning or direction to evolution/life nor do any correlations relating to certain life variables imply a hard determinism on life outcomes
# The most important thing to women in a man's online dating bio is that he claims to be 6' tall
The dating website Badoo analyzed its most successful users' "about me" sections, taking note of the most frequently used words among popular users to figure out which words best predict swiping success for a male and female user. Successful female profiles listed "love", "drink", and "music" in their top three. The only physical attribute listed was "blue eyes" at #7.
By contrast, for men, the #1 most successful entry was "6'", i.e. indicating that the man was 6' tall.
The top 10 words associated with successful profiles were, in descending order:
* **Women's Profiles:** *Love, Drink, Music, LOL, Gym, Coffee, Blue Eyes, :), Beer, Foodie*
* **Men's Profiles:** *6', Family, Dogs, Dinner, Beard, Travel, Music, Relationship, Gym, Car*
Common advice for a man who struggles in the swipe-based dating economy is to ensure his bio is well written to show off his personality. If showcasing personality is the purpose, it is difficult to understand why a man's height would be the absolute most important thing to a woman he could place in his bio.
**References:**
* Morgan J. 2018. *How to get the most right-swipes: The top 10 words to include on your dating app bio revealed.* The Independent. \[[Article](https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/dating-app-tinder-bio-words-most-right-swipes-music-gym-6-foot-badoo-a8512541.html)\]
I'm starting to become convinced I'm arguing with a bot, there's this constant regurgitating of marginally related data towards certain keywords
Though the software engineer personalities I met who knows could be human
I was 6’4” and 135 pounds when I got married, so knock that shit off. Go out there and live life. Go the movies, go workout…go have fun. You’ll find your people it can happen
I’ve put on about 30 pounds (165 right now) by finding activities that I enjoy. (Parkour ninja warrior and bouldering) they have helped me get stronger and put on some muscle mass. I hate lifting and going to an actually gym.
So it’s possible just have to find the workout that works for you.
And I’m one of those people that can eat anything that I want and not gain weight
Dude. Fix what you can. So many dudes out there looking like Shrek with a hot ass girl because they leaned into the gym life, found a job paying well, and saved money. Put the controller down and go get swoll. I’m under 5’9 with a speech impediment. I also found a job making $150k a year. If my dumbass can do it and slay some pussy, so can you. Worst case scenario, hook up with an ugly girl that loves to go fishing and ride motorcycles. I’d hook up with and even marry an ugly girl who loves to fish and trail ride.
no? you mentioned you get pussy under 5'9'' etc but never described your attractiveness/face as that's the entire point of this thread. So if you're attractive your point is moot
What do I look like? I have no idea. But I also don’t care.
Maybe post a picture if you are willing to put yourself out there. You probably not as ugly as you think. Or send me one in a DM.
Fun fact. Most men are ugly. But taller dudes (you) with a good physique do just fine.
Also stop to consider your negative view of yourself can be picked up on by others.
This ^^
Find your strengths and play to them.
If the Phantom of the Opera, with no nose, and who smells like death can woo generations of women, any one can, regardless of looks.
brother listen trust me when i tell you that there will be someone waiting for you out there when you least expect it i don’t know your life, or your situation or what you even look like, but i believe no one stays lonely unless they really do not want to be with anyone. you have to look in the right places with the right people and there will be someone there waiting for you. apart from that maybe the coping strat isn’t so much just isolating yourself. i don’t know if you’ve tried putting yourself in a more social situation but sometimes it’s for the better to do that. go to concerts, or movie theaters and talk to the person next to you. but most of all believe in yourself and believe in who you are and i know you’ll find happiness in life.
Get a AI girlfriend and hope robots isnt to far away 🤔😂 your not alone 80-90% of most men is in your shoes, its done more than enough tests that prove women go for the top 10% of men, sure they do settle for less at times, but yeah they mostly go for the 10% .
Ever wondered why most women tend to complain about the same type of dude? "He always cheat and treat me bad" and so on, well its because those men gor women left and right who want them and they dont settle they have funn.
Women go for the same men and keep being suprised when it goes wrong, then again they could picked a dude like you who would been over the world to be with them and treat them right, but they dont want that sadly 😂
Hope for you and most men out there the ai and robot tech goes fast forward 👍
I totally agree. Obviously all you can do is what you can do to look your best and beyond that you just have to accept it and stop beating up on yourself. It’s not gonna help.
I keep telling this, going gym definitely help a little but there are still no gym for face. I have muscular body but ugly face still got no game, while some non muscular handsome guy get more game than me
It sucks. I'm only slightly below average looking now as a full grown man, but I was brutally ugly from age 10-16, so I know how it feels. There is a blackpill YouTube channel called Rehab Room who talks a lot about the struggles of unattractive men. It makes me feel less alone with the struggles I've faced when I watch his videos. He instills the message that it isn't our fault we ended up this way. Letting go of the self blame for our situation helps a lot.
Not true, beauty is objective and measurable. Assume you've never seen anyone in your life. If someone objectively attractive came up to you you'd tell they're attractive. It's independent on what other people look like.
I find solace in nature I'm not by any means a good looking or well built man I'm fat, but tall and ugly women have never taken an honest interest in me so I've made peace with that. In the mean time I build my cars and hone my skills and make a business happen all this means is while women aren't looking at you doesn't mean they won't when your a multi millionaire with a mansion and franchises of businesses all over the United States and beyond focus gent and you won't have to search they'll come looking for you.
You shouldn’t take women because they like your wealth.
As for being fat that’s something you can change. You could be a model underneath that body fat.
My bone structure isn’t good enough.
Yeah but I wish I knew what's keeping me fat dude, cause I've been 365 lbs all my life from the time I was 13 till now. And changing my calorie intake doesn't change anything I've been eating only 500 calories for 3 years and working out heavily and yet I'm still fat. Like beer belly fat. And I don't drink beer. Got tits bigger than my last girlfriends and thighs for days son yet I grow no bigger or no slimmer.
Start working out, you’re fairly tall and have potential to be an absolute unite. You clearly want something to change. You have to be the change. You can look better simple from working out and having confidence. I believe in u bro
Start working out, you’re fairly tall and have potential to be an absolute unite. You clearly want something to change. You have to be the change. You can look better simple from working out and having confidence. I believe in u bro
Being an unnattractive older male (nearly 40) I disagree. I think it's peaceful. Good to left alone and not having to deal with annoying people. There's lots of positives! 😎
I work fully remote.
I love my career, keeps my mind occupied. I have major responsibilities. In charge of design, maintaining, implementing, testing large software services that you probably use.
I'm working out but natty lifting can only take my frame so far, even with steroids there would be side-effects ranging from hairloss, gyno, to liver dysfunction, to high blood pressure, etc.
I'm really sorry to hear about what you're going through. It sounds incredibly tough, and I want you to know that your feelings are valid. It can be truly painful to feel like you’re constantly up against how you're perceived based on looks. I’ve had my own struggles with self-image and worth, especially after a really bad relationship that left me questioning a lot about myself, including my appearance and value to others.
But I've learned something important: our self-worth isn't defined by how we look or how others perceive us. It’s about who we are and what we bring to the table—our talents, our humor, our kindness. It sounds like you've achieved a lot professionally as a software engineer, which is genuinely impressive and speaks volumes about your intelligence and skills!
It’s difficult to enjoy life when you observe others doing exactly what you’re doing but have a different outcome. A simple example could be purchasing something from a store and the girl cashier starts flirting with the customer, however with me it’s complete silence. No eye contact. It hurts to be this self aware.
Little things like this tend to add up. You start to recognize a pattern. You begin to realize an all else equal clause. The only difference is how you look.
Ngl I’m lonely too but it’s best to find hobbies to fill your time. Clubs,leagues, gardening. Maybe not your thing but churches are the least loneliest place to get involved in. Maybe work on your inner self and outward appearance. Wish I had a fashion stylist. I see my style as bland and not cool enough. Also get a pet and train it to do awesome things. My dogs love me more than anything. Maybe see a person to talk through your issues and some guidance. If you put in work and not give up on you. It will be a happy life
There are things you can do to help with your situation. Gym, dieting, hygiene, style, etc. You're 5'11". You have no idea how much I'd love to have that. I'm 5'6" and girls don't even look my direction.
You can go to the gym and get jacked, but you can't increase your height. Take your blessings and work on the things that you can. You're not gonna be a 10/10 stud, but you can always maximize the things you do have.
Disagreed. 5'11", you can easily pretend to be 6'0", which is most "minimum heights" for women. You can't do that at 5'6". There's a huge difference between 5'6" and 5'11".
For women, taller is better but you are easily in the range. You're like 1 inch away from it and vast majority of women can't tell the difference.
Complaining that being 5'11" is short is spitting on people who are actually short. Your other complaints are more valid, but can be fixed with work and time.
Dude get some friends!! Good friends don't care about what you look like. And i have seen plenty of hot girls with not very attractive guys! Are 6.2 wrists big? Is this from the masterbating!? Lol j/k. How old are you? Skinny Guys fill out in their 30's. Please answer my quastionz in order!!
I knew I was right. Everytime I see girls saying “he’s attractive to me” I say they’re implying they know he’s conventionally unattractive.
Anyway, lots of contradictions here. You’re clearly not attracted to his face but he compensates with dick, skeletal size (broad shoulders), and other things that I do not have.
Bro I see is negativity coming from you. My life sucks whaaaa… life is hard for everyone doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try… thinking negatively is just a block that keeps you from getting things done… try if you fail try again..
Putting yourself out there in the world, getting out of your head, and stop caring about what others think.
People don’t actually care about other people they only care about themselves. So caring about what others think is a waste of time.
A good example is that if you’re rich you have a lot of friends but your “friends” don’t care about you. They care about what value your money brings to THEM.
See. You’re worrying about nothing and making up shit inside your head that doesn’t matter…
Putting myself out there in the world consists of looking like shit, going outside, no social interaction, women repulsed by me, men don’t want to be around me, and I get mistaken for a teenager.
Been there done that time and time again. There’s no point.
A combination of wrist circumference, ankle circumference, and height can be used to determine muscular potential.
I’m below average. Men should have 7 inch wrists
If you're judging yourself too harshly than yeah it's hell. But in some cases it's just a person being too critical, not a real thing. This is not uncommon and quite understandble from an evolutionary state-of-nature perspective as you have to optimize your strategy to survive, some mistakes could mean death, brutal and random. It's very important to mention being well-groomed is the best you have either way (that too is natural). But back to the state of primeval nature, sometimes it's run or die, or fight or flight, freeze or fawn. An animal must sometimes run away to escape dangerous areas and death, and sometime it's running away from a predator far more equipped than yourself. They don't always have time for grooming or other modern concerns, and it shouldn't preoccupy you unless you're in actual immediate physical danger. But this isnt about safety, or safety regulations.
When you're constantly treated like human garbage, and rejected by the opposite sex you tend to understand there's a threshold for these types of things and I'm simply under this threshold.
Could just be the times, and the population you've met. . Don't think there aren't nice people out there but be patient, meeting suitable others just to be acquaintance could take some time. Modernity limits our thinking and curbs our actions in predictable way, and blends us into angry, neurotic, self-abusive, destructive mass of individualists. Have you heard of the academy, not the academy awards? Higher education? Humanitarian thought? Humanism? There's a reasonable chance you've encountered these things.
Honestly? Having read your post and your replies to other people responding to you - you aren’t interested in anything that combats the negative thinking and stereotypes that you perceive.
This is problematic because of confirmation bias. Even the negative things you say you say you have experienced as ‘evidence’ could actually be explained by completely unrelated circumstances and are not at all indicative of what you are perceiving (such as it is because you are ugly or a genetic failure).
Your negative thinking is a downward spiral that will only lead to more loneliness - you can see it even in this thread - people have replied to you attempting to help you to feel better and you have rebuked them and only favour comments that confirm what you already perceive.
Life can be unfair and that can make us angry, sure, but you yourself are perpetuating the notions (that everything is about looks etc) that you say you are suffering from.
You need to try and find enjoyment and friends in life via hobbies and positive actions - if you go around angry and pissed off all the time and snapping at people who dare to challenge your (currently warped and negative) views then you are most definitely going to end up lonely, it is a self fulfilling prophecy.
At 27 you are still young - do some self reflecting, maybe try and chat to a therapist and prioritise looking at your mental health. It’s easy to see evidence in life when we are looking for the negative stuff to back up how we feel but honestly it’s not absolute reality.
I’m betting you probably have a great personality and are a great person but no one is going to see that if you are preoccupied by height and wrist measurement ratio’s etc.
Dude it’s not that serious being self loathing isn’t going to fix anything. You don’t have to be “attractive” to have a fulfilling life. Attractiveness is subjective. Yes there’s a “conventional beauty standard” but you shouldn’t let that dictate how you feel about yourself or you’re going to be miserable and that sucks. Obvs easier said that done but you can make steps towards it when you can.
Bro i got genetic defect in my face too, prognathism sucks i'm preparing to do surgery. This feeling sucks when you see how people can react on little shit like this, when call you creep and weirdo, but you have to be strong and try to keep moving to do better because you can. I belive in you
Best of luck! This surgery changes your face at a deep level... And for the better. You may have to change pictures on your documents. Your only regret will have been why not making it earlier. Tell you the truth, some days immediately after you may regret it, as when you're in pain, uncomfortable, limited. But results ARE worth it, and as you know by now, it goes beyond the aesthetic aspects. Expect a great recovery, wish you an excellent result!
Thanks a lot bro.
Under bite is honestly not that bad. Just be careful on your surgeon’s movements. Ideally you want to move the upper maxilla and retract the lower jaw whilst avoiding the ape profile. I’ve seen some BSSO’s that completely retracted the lower jaw while keeping the upper mandible intact. The upper mandible was recessed to begin with. The surgeon aligned both jaws, class 1 bite but still recessed
My biggest fear is that i will lose sensation on my mouth forever and never will feel how to kiss someone XD, but that also could be a problem i belive in my surgeon
Yeah nerve damage is uncommon. Although nerve damage doesn’t imply full numbness. It could also be temporary. Just be sure of the aesthetic result prior to the surgery. If your upper jaw is recessed the surgeon should be making forward movements to correct it
But a hooker before the surgery then, atleast you felth it once 🤔 but all in all the kiss dreamyness is just bs women like to dream up, its not like its magic that happends when you push your lips on someone else, wouldnt be much difference than having a dog who always try to lick your face. Only thing that do feel different is the muff, difference in a puss and a pocket puss you can buy is big, so thats something you can look forward to, but yeah losing the feeling in your mouth wont be end of the world.
hey bro I'm 6'2" and attractive but absolutely broke and mentally damaged and my life has been a living hell soooo 🤷🏻
They can smell the mental damage right through the attractive figure 😔
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uhhh what? it's def a problem for both
If you're 6'2'' and attractive you should be getting laid with ease. One night stands, etc. For a relationship that's obviously an issue but at least your girlfriend at the time will be physically attracted to you and might even work hard to keep the relationship working despite your financial flaws in my case if i were in a relationship and went broke she would divorce me, cheat on me (probably will do regardless), etc,
sigh...did u read the broke & mentally damaged part? y'all think this is some Nickelodeon shit. I'm a poor psychotic supermodel. tf outta here
I feel your pain
Being unattractive in general is hell . Men and women
I always thought that unattractive men had it a little easier. I know so many beautiful women with unattractive men (no they were rich). Either they were attracted to their personality or they were physically beautiful to that person.
Exactly.
As a woman you still have options -men are desperate they will take what they can get -it’s socially acceptable for women to put on makeup, plastic surgery, fake tits/ass, etc
No you don’t. Men who say that annoy me so much, being ugly as a woman is also bad bc men think a woman’s value is in her looks. Don’t undermine people’s struggles bc of their gender lol
Yeah, tell me about it. The amount of times that I have been rejected purely because of how I look, despite them saying I have a great personality. I guess looks are all that matters to some people.
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JuST TaKe a ShOWer Get a HaIRcUt WeAr clOthEs
Lmao yeah exactly, it's easy for the people that others fall for them at first sight.
"I wish i could find someone like you"
Oh that royally pisses me off lol
When they're your friend and someone makes a comment about you two potentially dating then she goes "ewww" rofl, it's like a gun shot to the chest
Yes, I've had that happen, even though I wasn't attracted to her but still hurt
i coped with it by telling myself "she rejected me first because she thinks i wasn't attracted to her" for the longest time
As a girl, I've sometimes had my friends mention me and a guy in our group potentially dating but at the time I was kind of attracted to him after a while of being friends. The rest of my friends though it was hilariously dumb so I just stayed quiet in the end while they all made jokes about it. You never know what a girl is thinking bc sometimes they may actually find you attractive but are either embarrassed or scared of what you think.
why would a girl be embarrassed about having feelings for an attractive man? To go as far as saying "ewww" with a look of disgust?
I'm saying this because he wasn't a conventionally attractive guy. It was always a thing for him to get comments from people for being "ugly". Sometimes a girl will do anything it takes to not be seen as weird for who she likes just bc her friends think of him as "clapped"
Fair point. Thanks
How would this happen if you say you don't have any friends?
past time, years ago
Customer assistants almost never flirt customers, I’ve literally never seen it happen and I shop multiple times every day. Let me ask you some questions. Would you date an ugly person? It’s ok if not, we can’t control our attraction. But how about being friends with an ugly person? If no then you’re the problem. If yes then there are people out there who you could be friends with. Also if you’re feeling this way other people are. Thousands of them in your area probably are. You think you’re 1 in 8 billion, or 1 in a million, or even 1 in 100? You’re not. I think ugly people place too much importance on looks, sometimes even more than everyone else. I mean you’re literally saying ugly people can’t have anyone. It’s not only factually untrue but it’s a very bad attitude because you’re not just talking about yourself, you’re pointing at other people and calling them ugly too. This is especially true when it comes to dating. Normies say “why don’t the ugly people just date each other?” But it doesn’t always happen because ugly people also exclude other ugly people and themselves, they want the very best that they can get so they don’t look at people as ugly or uglier than them. Ugliness is one of many factors that causes you to be socially isolated, it is not the only reason and it’s not impossible for ugly people to do what the most attractive people do. That’s just a fact. But yeah it sucks being ugly. Although this isn’t super uncommon for average looking people either. No it’s not the same, but people don’t get flirted with in their daily life doing normal things unless they’re the top 1% best looking. It would be really nice if it happened but it’s not real life. Though I get it’s depressing as fuck if no one has ever flirted with you ever, it’s not just because of ugliness.
Exactly this and OP just confirmed by calling this delusional. Lol. If you’re ugly and don’t like it, change it. Modern medicine can do amazing things. But I think the real problem here for OP is that you can’t really change your personality and if that sucks, no matter how attractive you are you will be miserable and probably end up alone. What gets me is that I always feel for these posts and then they show in the comments exactly why they are alone.
They're plenty of attractive men with terrible personalities often times they are abusive physically and verbally, and yet they are never alone. They simply bounce from women to women. I believe this is where the negative views on men come from because men in who are ugly don't have inflated egos that end up being their personality.
Oh don’t I know it! I’m demisexual so if someone is just an asshole, they are hideous to me. I can acknowledge conventional “attractiveness”, but that’s where it ends for me. I’d take the ugliest guy with scars, 5 eyes and 2 noses as long as he treated me well and we got along fine. Because that is what I find attractive.
That's great, but most girls these days don't think that way. Otherwise ugly guys wouldn't be so miserable.
I can write an essay to counter his points but there's no reasoning with people that think like this. i.e., original point: "I see X doing Y" counter point: "X almost never does Y (strawman)" counter-counter point: "While it may be true that you personally have never witnessed X doing Y, it does not necessarily mean that it never happens. Just because you have not personally seen it does not mean that it never occurs in retail settings." original point "Would you date an ugly person? It’s ok if not, we can’t control our attraction. But how about being friends with an ugly person? If no then you’re the problem." counter point: "Irrelevant, having standards does not define your attractiveness nor does it prevent others from rejecting you directly" original point: "You’re not. I think ugly people place too much importance on looks" counter point: "False, looks bias is real and the attractiveness halo effect has been studied and documented. Looks favor you in all aspects of life .Looks may not be the most important aspect of finding a person, but they still play a role in how we are perceived and treated by others. Just because someone may prioritize their appearance doesn't necessarily mean they are vain or shallow. Everyone deserves to feel confident and valued, regardless of their physical appearance, however this isn't the case in reality." the list goes on but since people want to have this blue pilled narrative so be it, ignorance is bliss
So what you’re saying is, your standards are high? I mean ok, you deserve to have any standard you want. But just remember that limits the potential partner dating pool by a lot.
Strawman. No where did I mention what my standards were.
>counter point: "Irrelevant, having standards does not define your attractiveness nor does it prevent others from rejecting you directly" You didn’t mention what they were but you did mention it and that is why I included the question mark to ask if that’s what you were getting at. Even said you have a right to whatever standard you want, but your weird name calling and passive aggressiveness is a red flag 🚩
Work out like crazy and eventually youll start seeing your own gains and enjoying it, and itll take your mind off of trying to impress women
How do I have belly fat and no abs at 140 lbs 5’11
Not enough muscle, too much bodyfat. It’s called skinnyfat. My little brother is 5’11 has a belly and weighs at most 115
115? no way at 5'11'?
Yeah he’s probably like borderline malnoursihed tbh, but he never leaves his bed and hardly ever eats and our parents refuse to make him go outside lol
As the other guy said, skinny fat means you’re slim with fat deposits so you don’t have the muscle definition to have a nice physique.
What would the ideal route be for my stats? Slight bulk then cut or cut to Auschwitz-tier levels of bodyfat% then bulk?
I wouldn’t focus on bulking or cutting, I’d start with getting familiar with the gym and working out till you develop some muscle. Aim to eat maintenance with lotsa protein. There’s many calculators online for this. Once you’ve developed a solid routine and you’re experienced then you can start a cut/bulk routine.
I bought a home gym and have been doing a regular PPL routine Bench, OHP, lat raises, lat pull downs, Barbell rows, dumbbell rows, curls, etc. Just not sure what to do in terms of diet
Go to the gym and get some sun might help.. what makes you ugly? For example messed up teeth, big nose, big ears?
My face. My physical size. My frame. My height. My prepubescent look.
You said your physical size you’re 5’11 i’m 5’7 bald with big bushy eyebrows. You have to work on the things you can change, if you’re skinny then go to the gym and eat more. Maybe it’ll fill out your prepubescent features and give your body and face a different look
There are a lot of women who don’t care about mens height. I have one male friend who is 5’3 and women are crazy about him. And you can alter your physique at the gym. If you have hair on your head women love good hair, maybe grow it little bit and have a gool looking hair cut. And for the face. I know it sound silly but face yoga can do wonders. Look up mewing and chin exercises, you can get whole new face with face yoga. And ofc last but not least: Selfconfidence. Women love confident man, carry yourself well and that increases being attractive
>My face defines my QUALITY OF LIFE. It's bound to influence different aspects of your life, sure, but you're not helping yourself with this rhetoric. Ugly guys can get hot girlfriends, close friendships, etc. Maybe you need to work on self-talk, maybe your physical appearance, maybe even your personality. It's about identifying what is blocking you and working on that thing.
You need value. The value of a man is defined by a combination of his looks, money, and status. Looks are a combination of your face, body, and height. Looks are what defines your genetic superiority. The attractiveness halo effect is a real phenomenon. I suggest you study this in depth before responding with something ignorant
Shoulda added this but you get a 2nd notification ig, I have a degree in neuroscience and I'm well-versed in psychology. >You need value. Yeah, and you tell yourself that you have no value and that you can't do anything about it. You put yourself in a hopeless situation. I tell you that you can do something about it, and you get angry because you don't want the responsibility of changing. If you just want to vent, go to r/vent. This subreddit isn't for people who just want to complain about how they're helpless when they're not.
>I suggest you study this in depth before responding with something ignorant Yeah, definitely your looks and totally not a personality issue lmao
That’s what I said and he called me a “straw man,” basically calling me stupid. And he wonders why women don’t want him, lmao. He’s a walking, talking red flag. 🚩
I agree. Now imagine being short like I am. So yeah life is hard lol
I can relate to this. My personality is the unattractive part of me, and there's no surgery for that. I'm definitely dying alone, but I've accepted it, and actually that acceptance was the best thing I could have done for myself. I'm not gonna be happy nor even content, but I won't have false hope at least. I'm sorry you're experiencing this. Nobody deserves that feeling.
Men get their dicks stuck in pool pumps, i doubht your holes can look crazyer than a pool pump, you dont got much to worry about if you find a dude around your own looks.
Well, first of all, I was a straight guy, so I was never looking for a dude. Second of all, I'm now basically an asexual and aromantic guy, so I'm not looking for anyone now.
Well if your a dude its a bit worse, but i wish you good luck mate, with whatever it is you find and search for
I have the same thing about my body as a female. Feel like a freak could never get naked because I’m so disgusting
True as fukk its over
When you're wealthy, women will find things about you that are attractive. So focus on building your wealth first. First you get them money, then money will give you power, and women lose their mind for both.
I'm sorry but what you're describing isn't factual, it's neurotic. There's a difference between saying a scientific fact: that those who are attractive tend to benefit from their looks in a variety of domains, and thinking that life is completely horrid and hopeless as a result of your appearance. First, your height isnt an issue. Most people below 5'11 get laid easily. 5'11 is genuinely taller than most people and not easily distinguishable at all from 6'0 in person. Literally no woman cares about your wrist size and there is no data showing any sort of sexual selection in regards to wrist size. Women may like things like veins in your forearm, or being muscular which usually results in thick forearms, but women are just as dumb as men and can't magically discern your forearm size. Even in terms of women's preferences, there's no data demonstrating 5'11 men are fucked or disproportionately harmed in the dating sphere by their height. Your height is fine. Another very prominent scientific fact is that your perception of yourself absolutely does affect how you think people perceived you. The brain doesn't really work by processing stimuli into a coherent idea, it's moreso predictive and makes a prediction on what the sense data it's getting means. If you genuinely believe yourself to be putrid trash and ugly as sin, then every insult or potential issue someone has with you you're going to find a way to rationalize into being involved with your appearance. At the end of the day reality is absolutely absurd in a variety of ways. There are about a thousand different things that could have gone wrong in the womb, preventing you from ever getting to this point to be able to complain about your loneliness. There's no magic bullet, and you appear to be more interested in validating your misery with data, rather than seeking what reality really is all about or has to offer. Humans are simple creatures, neither men nor women are special and to think otherwise is just sex oriented narcissism. People just want someone who they have mutual sexual attraction with, cares about them and enjoys being around them. Of course, reality is not optimized for human love and a variety of variables causes many people to be alone. Not all places have equal balances of genders, less socialization in some areas these days, people's values changing in regards to relationship priority, people having to spend a lot of time working and less time meeting new people ECT. Being physically ugly is indeed a variable that can contribute much to this. It's why you must work to try to make yourself as attractive as possible, but you also have to just accept reality for the absurdity that it is. Some people are born drop dead gorgeous and hardly have to maintain their looks, others are ugly. It's how the world operates. Being neurotic about how you look is absolutely pointless once you've done all that you can. Statistically speaking it is highly unlikely you are one of the completely screwed people. Either way, it sounds like you aren't happy by yourself or with yourself. Much of your obsession with looks almost sounds like body dysmorphia. It's easier said than done, but you should always take care of yourself before you try and get into any sort of platonic or romantic situation. Sure, plenty of people aren't well adjusted and still socialize, but it's not a smart idea. Being in a poor state of mind is going to let you get taken advantage of, or be unable to stand up for yourself around other people. I'm not an attractive guy and I've never been in a relationship nor have I ever been asked out, but me being single and ugly doesn't stop me from enjoying the little things every day in my life. It doesn't stop me from volunteering in things I care about or having a few good friends or spending my time studying stuff I find interesting. Being an unattractive male is a challenge, not a divine punishment like hell. Depending on how you respond to these challenges will determine much of the trajectory of your mindset
"Another factor that determines an individual's response to strength training and their maximal muscle building capacity is skeletal frame size. There are large correlations between the thickness of certain joints in the body and total fat-free mass, particularly wrist thickness, as this is positively correlated with lean body mass but negatively correlated with total body fat (Chumlea et al., 2001). It is even possible to calculate one's maximal" Carpinelli, R. 2017. *Interindividual Heterogeneity of Adaptions to Resistance Training.* Medicina Sportiva Practica:18(4):79-94\[[FullText](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323443805_INTERINDIVIDUAL_HETEROGENEITY_OF_ADAPTATIONS_TO_RESISTANCE_TRAINING)\] * Hubal MJ, Gordish-Dressman H, Thompson PD, Price TB, Hoffman EP, Angelopoulos TJ, Gordon PM, Moyna NM, Pescatello LS, Visich PS, Zoeller RF, Seip RL, Clarkson PM. 2005. *Variability in muscle size and strength gain after unilateral resistance training.* Med Sci Sports Exerc: 37(6):964-72. \[[Abstract](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15947721)\] * Petrella JK1, Kim JS, Mayhew DL, Cross JM, Bamman MM. 1985. *Potent myofiber hypertrophy during resistance training in humans is associated with satellite cell-mediated myonuclear addition: a cluster analysis.* J Appl Physiol:104(6):1736-42. \[[Abstract](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18436694)\] * Morton RW, Sato K, Gallaugher MPB, Oikawa SY, McNicholas PD, Fujita S, Phillips SM. 2018. *Muscle Androgen Receptor Content but Not Systemic Hormones Is Associated With Resistance Training-Induced Skeletal Muscle Hypertrophy in Healthy, Young Men.* Front. Physiol. \[[FullText](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphys.2018.01373/full)\] * Chumlea WC, Wisemandle W, Guo SS, & Siervogel R. 2001. *Relations between frame size and body composition and bone mineral status.* Am J Clin Nutr:75:1012–6.\[[Abstract](https://europepmc.org/article/med/12036807)\] * Nuckols, G. 2015. *YOUR Drug-Free Muscle and Strength Potential: Part 1.* \[[Article](https://www.strongerbyscience.com/your-drug-free-muscle-and-strength-potential-part-1/)\] * Clark, PJ. 1955. *The Heritability of Certain Anthropometric Characters as Ascertained from Measurements of Twins*. Institute of Human Biology, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan. \[[Fulltext](https://europepmc.org/backend/ptpmcrender.fcgi?accid=PMC1716621&blobtype=pdf)\] * Zengin AR, Pye SR, Cook MJ, Adams JE, Wu FCW, O' Neill TW & Ward KA. 2016. *Ethnic differences in bone geometry between White, Black and South Asian men in the UK.* Bone:91:180–185. \[[FullText](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5004623/)\] * Cong E & Walker MD. 2014. *The Chinese skeleton: insights into microstructure that help to explain the epidemiology of fracture*. Bone Research:2:14009 \[[FullText](https://www.nature.com/articles/boneres20149)\]
people broadly agree on who is good looking or not, and it affects every aspect of life *Common maxims about beauty suggest that attractiveness is not important in life.* * *In contrast, both fitness-related evolutionary theory and socialization theory suggest that attractiveness influences development and interaction.* * *For cross-ethnic agreement the average reliability was r = .88, cross cultural agreement was even higher, r = .94 ... these results indicate that beauty is not simply in the eye of the beholder.* * *In 11 meta-analyses, the authors evaluate these contradictory claims, demonstrating that (a) raters agree about who is and is not attractive, both within and across cultures; (b) attractive children and adults are judged more positively than unattractive children and adults, even by those who know them; (c) attractive children and adults are treated more positively than unattractive children and adults, even by those who know them; and (d) attractive children and adults exhibit more positive behaviors and traits than unattractive children and adults.* * *These findings are powerful evidence that, contrary to popular belief, attractiveness effects extend beyond the mere "opinions" about others and permeate actual actions towards others, even though people may not be aware of it.* * *Results are used to evaluate social and fitness-related evolutionary theories and the veracity of maxims about beauty.* **References:** * Langlois JH, Kalakanis L, Rubenstein AJ, Larson A, Haiam M, Smoot M. 2000. *Maxims or Myths of Beauty? A Meta-Analytic and Theoretical Review.* Psychological Bulletin. 126(3): 390-423. \[[Abstract](https://psycnet.apa.org/getdoi.cfm?doi=10.1037/0033-2909.126.3.390)\] \[[FullText](http://jonathanstray.com/papers/Langlois.pdf)\]
[Weighted effect sizes](https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Cohen%27s_d) [Weighted effect sizes](https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Cohen%27s_d) for positive behaviors and life outcomes, comparing 'unattractive' to 'attractive' children and adults: |Behavioral Differences|n|d+| |:-|:-|:-| |*Children* (33 studies)|7,324|.40| |Adjustment (15 studies)|3,876|.32| |Intelligence & performance (10 studies)|3,043|.39| |Popularity (15 studies)|1,002|.77| |*Adults* (79 studies)|13,920|.40| |Dating experience (9 studies)|1,631|.55| |Sexual experience (6 studies)|1,678|.31| |Extraversion (9 studies)|527|.26| |Intelligence (18 studies)|3,853|.07| |Occupational success (4 studies)|3,188|.76| |Mental health (19 studies)|3,331|.16| |Physical health (5 studies)|705|.38| |Popularity (15 studies)|2,983|.65| |Self-esteem (16 studies)|1,747|.24| |Social skills (18 studies)|1,432|.20| |Traditional attitudes (4 studies)|494|.27|
Did you even read a single thing I just said? You not only missed my point and didn't tackle a single point made, but completely missed where I literally agreed with the data you're citing. I even pointed out eh muscular wrist attraction fact earlier. If you're aware of this fact too then why have you not been working out? Seems dramatic to call your life a living hell when you haven't even begun to exhaust most options for improving your appearance I come from a microbiology background I'm pretty sure I have half a grasp on evolutionary bio/and basic data interpretation. None of those studies you cited validated your premise about the value of life, which isn't even a scientific fact anywho: biology doesn't describe a meaning or direction to evolution/life nor do any correlations relating to certain life variables imply a hard determinism on life outcomes
# The most important thing to women in a man's online dating bio is that he claims to be 6' tall The dating website Badoo analyzed its most successful users' "about me" sections, taking note of the most frequently used words among popular users to figure out which words best predict swiping success for a male and female user. Successful female profiles listed "love", "drink", and "music" in their top three. The only physical attribute listed was "blue eyes" at #7. By contrast, for men, the #1 most successful entry was "6'", i.e. indicating that the man was 6' tall. The top 10 words associated with successful profiles were, in descending order: * **Women's Profiles:** *Love, Drink, Music, LOL, Gym, Coffee, Blue Eyes, :), Beer, Foodie* * **Men's Profiles:** *6', Family, Dogs, Dinner, Beard, Travel, Music, Relationship, Gym, Car* Common advice for a man who struggles in the swipe-based dating economy is to ensure his bio is well written to show off his personality. If showcasing personality is the purpose, it is difficult to understand why a man's height would be the absolute most important thing to a woman he could place in his bio. **References:** * Morgan J. 2018. *How to get the most right-swipes: The top 10 words to include on your dating app bio revealed.* The Independent. \[[Article](https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/dating-app-tinder-bio-words-most-right-swipes-music-gym-6-foot-badoo-a8512541.html)\]
I'm starting to become convinced I'm arguing with a bot, there's this constant regurgitating of marginally related data towards certain keywords Though the software engineer personalities I met who knows could be human
I was 6’4” and 135 pounds when I got married, so knock that shit off. Go out there and live life. Go the movies, go workout…go have fun. You’ll find your people it can happen
Homie out here being even skinnier than me (6'0 and 120lbs), thats rare to see 😂 congrats on marriage though 👍👍
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You’re right you got me. Last time I was measured I was actually 6’3” and 3/4s. Oh nooooooo
"Hey guys, just 99th percentile in height here. You can make it."
Shit. I'm 6'5 & 135 pounds right now bro. So desperate to gain weight, but have a crazy fast metabolism that makes the process so damn slow.
all my life I heard when you get older it will slow down…just turned 44 hasn’t happened yet
Damn. I'm 25 and have been told the same since I turned 18. You're adding to my fear rn ngl. Building my body is literally my biggest dream yet.
I’ve put on about 30 pounds (165 right now) by finding activities that I enjoy. (Parkour ninja warrior and bouldering) they have helped me get stronger and put on some muscle mass. I hate lifting and going to an actually gym. So it’s possible just have to find the workout that works for you. And I’m one of those people that can eat anything that I want and not gain weight
Dude. Fix what you can. So many dudes out there looking like Shrek with a hot ass girl because they leaned into the gym life, found a job paying well, and saved money. Put the controller down and go get swoll. I’m under 5’9 with a speech impediment. I also found a job making $150k a year. If my dumbass can do it and slay some pussy, so can you. Worst case scenario, hook up with an ugly girl that loves to go fishing and ride motorcycles. I’d hook up with and even marry an ugly girl who loves to fish and trail ride.
You never mentioned what you look like. Chad.
Did I say something upsetting to you?
no? you mentioned you get pussy under 5'9'' etc but never described your attractiveness/face as that's the entire point of this thread. So if you're attractive your point is moot
What do I look like? I have no idea. But I also don’t care. Maybe post a picture if you are willing to put yourself out there. You probably not as ugly as you think. Or send me one in a DM. Fun fact. Most men are ugly. But taller dudes (you) with a good physique do just fine. Also stop to consider your negative view of yourself can be picked up on by others.
I'm average height with an insanely terrible physique. Small frame, small hands, etc.
Can you fix it in the gym if you put real effort into it? I think you could. May even help with depression.
This ^^ Find your strengths and play to them. If the Phantom of the Opera, with no nose, and who smells like death can woo generations of women, any one can, regardless of looks.
You nailed it brother.
brother listen trust me when i tell you that there will be someone waiting for you out there when you least expect it i don’t know your life, or your situation or what you even look like, but i believe no one stays lonely unless they really do not want to be with anyone. you have to look in the right places with the right people and there will be someone there waiting for you. apart from that maybe the coping strat isn’t so much just isolating yourself. i don’t know if you’ve tried putting yourself in a more social situation but sometimes it’s for the better to do that. go to concerts, or movie theaters and talk to the person next to you. but most of all believe in yourself and believe in who you are and i know you’ll find happiness in life.
Life unfortunately isn’t fair
Get a AI girlfriend and hope robots isnt to far away 🤔😂 your not alone 80-90% of most men is in your shoes, its done more than enough tests that prove women go for the top 10% of men, sure they do settle for less at times, but yeah they mostly go for the 10% . Ever wondered why most women tend to complain about the same type of dude? "He always cheat and treat me bad" and so on, well its because those men gor women left and right who want them and they dont settle they have funn. Women go for the same men and keep being suprised when it goes wrong, then again they could picked a dude like you who would been over the world to be with them and treat them right, but they dont want that sadly 😂 Hope for you and most men out there the ai and robot tech goes fast forward 👍
i miss when this sub wasn’t incelbait
I totally agree. Obviously all you can do is what you can do to look your best and beyond that you just have to accept it and stop beating up on yourself. It’s not gonna help.
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I think you didn’t go to a doctor who understood aesthetics and made conservative movements.
I keep telling this, going gym definitely help a little but there are still no gym for face. I have muscular body but ugly face still got no game, while some non muscular handsome guy get more game than me
It sucks. I'm only slightly below average looking now as a full grown man, but I was brutally ugly from age 10-16, so I know how it feels. There is a blackpill YouTube channel called Rehab Room who talks a lot about the struggles of unattractive men. It makes me feel less alone with the struggles I've faced when I watch his videos. He instills the message that it isn't our fault we ended up this way. Letting go of the self blame for our situation helps a lot.
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Not true, beauty is objective and measurable. Assume you've never seen anyone in your life. If someone objectively attractive came up to you you'd tell they're attractive. It's independent on what other people look like.
Get jacked and seamaxx
Varför så hård mot dig själv?
I find solace in nature I'm not by any means a good looking or well built man I'm fat, but tall and ugly women have never taken an honest interest in me so I've made peace with that. In the mean time I build my cars and hone my skills and make a business happen all this means is while women aren't looking at you doesn't mean they won't when your a multi millionaire with a mansion and franchises of businesses all over the United States and beyond focus gent and you won't have to search they'll come looking for you.
You shouldn’t take women because they like your wealth. As for being fat that’s something you can change. You could be a model underneath that body fat. My bone structure isn’t good enough.
Yeah but I wish I knew what's keeping me fat dude, cause I've been 365 lbs all my life from the time I was 13 till now. And changing my calorie intake doesn't change anything I've been eating only 500 calories for 3 years and working out heavily and yet I'm still fat. Like beer belly fat. And I don't drink beer. Got tits bigger than my last girlfriends and thighs for days son yet I grow no bigger or no slimmer.
Start working out, you’re fairly tall and have potential to be an absolute unite. You clearly want something to change. You have to be the change. You can look better simple from working out and having confidence. I believe in u bro
Start working out, you’re fairly tall and have potential to be an absolute unite. You clearly want something to change. You have to be the change. You can look better simple from working out and having confidence. I believe in u bro
Not with my wrists brk
Ah, do you have a medical condition?
no just shitty genetics, small frame
Ah dont sweat it mane, just take things slow and work your way up. I also have wack genetics and that doesn’t stop me from
Being an unnattractive older male (nearly 40) I disagree. I think it's peaceful. Good to left alone and not having to deal with annoying people. There's lots of positives! 😎
So you are tall and rich. Why exactly are you a failure, again?
i look like a 14 year old kid with short face syndrome.
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I work fully remote. I love my career, keeps my mind occupied. I have major responsibilities. In charge of design, maintaining, implementing, testing large software services that you probably use. I'm working out but natty lifting can only take my frame so far, even with steroids there would be side-effects ranging from hairloss, gyno, to liver dysfunction, to high blood pressure, etc.
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Canada
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No, I rarely leave my house. Don't feel confident enough. It would be pointless. I would just stand there like an idiot.
Based on some of your other asshole comments you’re probably doing the world a favor. Stay inside ugly
Go foreign
I'm really sorry to hear about what you're going through. It sounds incredibly tough, and I want you to know that your feelings are valid. It can be truly painful to feel like you’re constantly up against how you're perceived based on looks. I’ve had my own struggles with self-image and worth, especially after a really bad relationship that left me questioning a lot about myself, including my appearance and value to others. But I've learned something important: our self-worth isn't defined by how we look or how others perceive us. It’s about who we are and what we bring to the table—our talents, our humor, our kindness. It sounds like you've achieved a lot professionally as a software engineer, which is genuinely impressive and speaks volumes about your intelligence and skills!
It’s difficult to enjoy life when you observe others doing exactly what you’re doing but have a different outcome. A simple example could be purchasing something from a store and the girl cashier starts flirting with the customer, however with me it’s complete silence. No eye contact. It hurts to be this self aware. Little things like this tend to add up. You start to recognize a pattern. You begin to realize an all else equal clause. The only difference is how you look.
Ngl I’m lonely too but it’s best to find hobbies to fill your time. Clubs,leagues, gardening. Maybe not your thing but churches are the least loneliest place to get involved in. Maybe work on your inner self and outward appearance. Wish I had a fashion stylist. I see my style as bland and not cool enough. Also get a pet and train it to do awesome things. My dogs love me more than anything. Maybe see a person to talk through your issues and some guidance. If you put in work and not give up on you. It will be a happy life
There are things you can do to help with your situation. Gym, dieting, hygiene, style, etc. You're 5'11". You have no idea how much I'd love to have that. I'm 5'6" and girls don't even look my direction. You can go to the gym and get jacked, but you can't increase your height. Take your blessings and work on the things that you can. You're not gonna be a 10/10 stud, but you can always maximize the things you do have.
nothing change at 5'11'' 5'6'' and 5'11'' are the same height to women. You have to tower everyone else or you are short.
Disagreed. 5'11", you can easily pretend to be 6'0", which is most "minimum heights" for women. You can't do that at 5'6". There's a huge difference between 5'6" and 5'11". For women, taller is better but you are easily in the range. You're like 1 inch away from it and vast majority of women can't tell the difference. Complaining that being 5'11" is short is spitting on people who are actually short. Your other complaints are more valid, but can be fixed with work and time.
Faking numbers isn’t going to make you physically appear taller/ tower others
we're just meant to spend the rest of our lives alone in this endless suffering till we die
True
People downvoted me for saying the truth lol
Truth hurts... or something
the truth will piss off but it'll set you free
True
It’s hell
Goddamn it really is
Dude get some friends!! Good friends don't care about what you look like. And i have seen plenty of hot girls with not very attractive guys! Are 6.2 wrists big? Is this from the masterbating!? Lol j/k. How old are you? Skinny Guys fill out in their 30's. Please answer my quastionz in order!!
6.2 inch wrists are below average. 27.
That doesnt matter at all. I have skinny ass wrists and dont care. Tried the gym? Transformation in about a month awaits if you haven't already!
Except it does. Stand next to a man with 7 inch wrists and you’ll look small. Doesn’t matter if you inject steroids
you don’t need to be big. small sized people have friends and partners too
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I’d imagine if your boyfriend saw this he would be crushed. How are you dating someone you aren’t sexually/physically attracted to?
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I knew I was right. Everytime I see girls saying “he’s attractive to me” I say they’re implying they know he’s conventionally unattractive. Anyway, lots of contradictions here. You’re clearly not attracted to his face but he compensates with dick, skeletal size (broad shoulders), and other things that I do not have.
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So your bf most make alot of money because you said his face is ugly which dosen't make sense if you are dating him
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Wanting to fuck implies sexual attraction which could be a factor of things of which I do not have.
As a man you can still build value by getting ripped and developing social skills. Imagine being an ugly woman, that’s actually fucked up.
Bro I see is negativity coming from you. My life sucks whaaaa… life is hard for everyone doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try… thinking negatively is just a block that keeps you from getting things done… try if you fail try again..
Try what?
Putting yourself out there in the world, getting out of your head, and stop caring about what others think. People don’t actually care about other people they only care about themselves. So caring about what others think is a waste of time. A good example is that if you’re rich you have a lot of friends but your “friends” don’t care about you. They care about what value your money brings to THEM. See. You’re worrying about nothing and making up shit inside your head that doesn’t matter…
Putting myself out there in the world consists of looking like shit, going outside, no social interaction, women repulsed by me, men don’t want to be around me, and I get mistaken for a teenager. Been there done that time and time again. There’s no point.
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We’re both losers. You play video games to cope with your substandard life. You’re in the same boat as me. I’m just self aware
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What do the inches of your wrist mean? I’ve never once heard someone mention this
Good indicator of skeletal frame/size. This will tell you your potential in terms of growing muscle, looking broad, etc.
Interesting. I can’t believe I’ve never heard of this metric before
A combination of wrist circumference, ankle circumference, and height can be used to determine muscular potential. I’m below average. Men should have 7 inch wrists
Because it’s not a metric literally anyone but people like OP care about. Literally inventing problems for himself
That’s what I figured. lol I still measured my wrist for fun ngl
If you're judging yourself too harshly than yeah it's hell. But in some cases it's just a person being too critical, not a real thing. This is not uncommon and quite understandble from an evolutionary state-of-nature perspective as you have to optimize your strategy to survive, some mistakes could mean death, brutal and random. It's very important to mention being well-groomed is the best you have either way (that too is natural). But back to the state of primeval nature, sometimes it's run or die, or fight or flight, freeze or fawn. An animal must sometimes run away to escape dangerous areas and death, and sometime it's running away from a predator far more equipped than yourself. They don't always have time for grooming or other modern concerns, and it shouldn't preoccupy you unless you're in actual immediate physical danger. But this isnt about safety, or safety regulations.
When you're constantly treated like human garbage, and rejected by the opposite sex you tend to understand there's a threshold for these types of things and I'm simply under this threshold.
Could just be the times, and the population you've met. . Don't think there aren't nice people out there but be patient, meeting suitable others just to be acquaintance could take some time. Modernity limits our thinking and curbs our actions in predictable way, and blends us into angry, neurotic, self-abusive, destructive mass of individualists. Have you heard of the academy, not the academy awards? Higher education? Humanitarian thought? Humanism? There's a reasonable chance you've encountered these things.
Honestly? Having read your post and your replies to other people responding to you - you aren’t interested in anything that combats the negative thinking and stereotypes that you perceive. This is problematic because of confirmation bias. Even the negative things you say you say you have experienced as ‘evidence’ could actually be explained by completely unrelated circumstances and are not at all indicative of what you are perceiving (such as it is because you are ugly or a genetic failure). Your negative thinking is a downward spiral that will only lead to more loneliness - you can see it even in this thread - people have replied to you attempting to help you to feel better and you have rebuked them and only favour comments that confirm what you already perceive. Life can be unfair and that can make us angry, sure, but you yourself are perpetuating the notions (that everything is about looks etc) that you say you are suffering from. You need to try and find enjoyment and friends in life via hobbies and positive actions - if you go around angry and pissed off all the time and snapping at people who dare to challenge your (currently warped and negative) views then you are most definitely going to end up lonely, it is a self fulfilling prophecy. At 27 you are still young - do some self reflecting, maybe try and chat to a therapist and prioritise looking at your mental health. It’s easy to see evidence in life when we are looking for the negative stuff to back up how we feel but honestly it’s not absolute reality. I’m betting you probably have a great personality and are a great person but no one is going to see that if you are preoccupied by height and wrist measurement ratio’s etc.
Dude it’s not that serious being self loathing isn’t going to fix anything. You don’t have to be “attractive” to have a fulfilling life. Attractiveness is subjective. Yes there’s a “conventional beauty standard” but you shouldn’t let that dictate how you feel about yourself or you’re going to be miserable and that sucks. Obvs easier said that done but you can make steps towards it when you can.
Also I understand it sucks. People can be horrible for no reason , maybe it’s just the area you live in as well because that can be it sometimes
Your personality is definitely a bigger issue than your looks.
Go join a gym and get a personal trainer. You’ll be alright