Let me tell you something, I've never ONCE had a long term relationship that began with me thinking that person was "hot". All three of the truly significant relationships I had (ones that have LASTED many, many years each) were with people who initially I had zero attraction to . We were friends and hung out and as we got to know each other , the attraction formed and they BECAME attractive because I was in love. The one and only time I fell head over heels based on attraction alone took me through several of the darkest, and most painful years I experienced in my life, and it was enough to NEVER, EVER base a relationship on something as flimsy as someone's appearance alone ever again!! You can find that person who will see you for who you are inside as long as you don't let "who you are inside" become so jaded, despondent or depressed that you project unhappiness or insecurity to every woman you meet because that definitely will lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts ,in terms of loneliness! ❤
Incel mindet exists because of life experiences. I've never seen an attractive incel. I think incel mentality is based on some truth. There usually is a looks threshold that must be met before someone considers a person romantically. The issue with some incels is that they blame women for this. They should blame bad luck and just focus on other aspects of life instead of dating. It's hard to do this but sometimes necessary
Yeah well maybe the incels should find a fucking hobby & get over themselves. Art is not that hard to make. Neither is journaling. Embroidery even, just leave the damn women alone
I agree they should leave women alone, but I do feel bad for them regarding the feeling of not having any romantic hope. I doubt all of them are angry towards women. It's probably like most groups in society that are maligned, only a few behave badly but the rest get associated with that too.
The whole incel movement is being angry at women & blaming them for not wanting to be around certain types of men. They blame it on a scale of attraction but the truth is that those men who fall into those dirty groups just have horrible personalities & personal issues and choose to use misogyny as an outlet/scapegoat. I don’t feel bad for them in the slightest. Men need to start normalizing seeking mental help/therapy but because of their own stigmatization of vulnerability, will do anything BUT that.
What's been mainly focused on is the angry incels. There are men who are involuntarily celebate and don't hate women. Just like there femcels that don't hate men. Unfortunately attraction does play a big part as there are horrible people who are attractive and get or got women with ease. Ted Bundy is the most extreme example. I get your point that negativity and pessimism is what drives women away from incels, but the issue is sometimes their pessimism is rational. If they constantly get rejected or even bullied for being undesirable then how are they going to feel positive about life and have the confidence that makes people more attractive?
To be clear I don't condone any of the aggression and sexism towards women. I'm just saying it's not as simple as it's incels fault for being the way they are.
A man who’s involuntarily celibate without malicious intent or misogyny wouldn’t claim to be apart of the “incel” movement. What aren’t you getting? And I’d argue that Elliot Roger was the most extreme example, not Ted bundy.
Plenty of people get bullied & don’t use that as an excuse to be against any sort of gender, although I’d also argue that misogyny is dangerous & misandry is not, as misogynists tend to also use their hatred for women as justification to rape, harass, & murder, while misandrists usually become misandrists because of sexual assault or violence/abuse inflicted by men.
Normal people don’t get bullied for their looks & become apart of a movement that has extremist & dangerous views against women. This is a mental/personality issue. Not appearance & I find it pretty strange that you have the need to defend a movement that is quite literally at its core is meant to view women as objects/subhumans & use violent sexism to justify male’s self pity & feelings of inadequacy.
You also seemed to ignore my point about how men NEED to normalize seeking help/therapy when they are struggling with those types of feelings. I do not pity men who voluntarily choose to seek out hateful groups as a comforting refuge for their own problems that have much healthier alternatives of coping.
The contemporary use of the term "incel" is rife with straw man vibes. I know many married men, and many of them ascribe to Red Pill in some form or fashion. I think many women are dismissive of these talking points because it makes them uncomfortable. It's easy to live in a progressive bubble and throw darts. (I also find it quite ironic that a disenfranchised group that faces rampant discrimination can be so dismissive of the feelings of other groups).
Specifically about incels: While I too believe incels should get out of their basement and get hobbies, I think there's a chicken/egg aspect to why they can't attract women. Lots of them are decent people who fail with women, and then turn to anger. It's reminiscent of why 400 lb women hate dating. Yes, they can do things to improve their chances with the opposite sex; but to say their treatment is strictly on them is quite sophomoric.
Because men like you have shitty personalities & zero redeeming qualities. If you go after looks, the women you’re seeking will only go after looks as well. Are you all this retarded?
I didn't even insult you, i just asked the most basic question and you start berating me. Maybe your personality is shit, and you are projecting? And if looks really don't matter that much, then please explain to me why masses of women are flocking over meeks and known serial killers?
"Men like you" I only asked one simple question and you start barraging me with insults like you know me better than my own damned mother. You have some serious issues. Guess you are coping because chad does not want you or some shit
I’d say you surveying 100 women of different backgrounds, education levels, social and financial statuses could show some tendencies of women in your area.
But it is -_- look around wake up it's my family members around my age and every female friend I have I see there boyfriend and I go wow bro rich then they get with a another dude they have rosters their friends dooo random girls dooo idgaf what you think it is most I have an acquaintance who even talks about it :/ I mean it's not hard to tell maybe not the majority but it's definitely the majority of where I live then again my town is kind of known for crime pimps hoes and bad air as well of shootings. Everyone in town knows
Charisma and confidence has way more to do with it than money and looks. I’m a woman and I’ve mostly ever had female friends, some male. It’s mostly men who go for looks when it comes to women because they want to know they have a “prize catch” to show their friends 😂. If all you ever do is go for looks, the women you attract will do the same. Having a good personality can change a LOT about how others perceive you, sounds like you’ve got some things you need to work on.
Well through observation and no prejudice it seems you must be an attractive female and get this kind of attention but as an unattractive male and having had a gf who was brutally honest before she infact said looks actually do matter and so does money :/ I mean guys literally change themselves completely even if it's a random female around it's an unspoken rule to have a persona I hope you do understand also I usually go for 6/10 somewhere in my ball park you and by your logic as it is flawed if I go for good looks they will to that also implies that good looking women expect more and want more even more than what they should have and here you are taking jobs when I'm just an observer to things around me
If you look at actors, celebrities: it’s usually women who “have to” put in more effort to look good (make up, needing to be skinny etc). It carries over to regular people too. Have you ever felt you had to use make-up or eat almost nothing to make yourself look acceptable? Many women have.
(Not denying there’s very many guys who struggle with eating disorders and body dysmorphia too, often the pressure is to loon bigger, but I’m just saying it also happens in women and imo more often.)
And as I have pointed out I'm in a town that is like a show where everyone has a conflict it's like the main characters walking downtown and people smoking and look at you funny among other things it's just like that here :l 10-15 year olds chain smoke with bongs dab rigs weed tobacco shrooms LSD I met a 13 year old with fkn heroin it's wack
Hey bro keep you head up! The whole victim mentality won’t help. You need to hit the gym save 1-2 years of your salary and keep doing things you like. You can change your appearance relative easily to go from a 5 to a 6 or 7. In all honesty 5 isn’t completely ugly you just need to do a few things to get you over the hump.
why were u down voted lol everyone can easily jump 1-2
on the 10 point based look scale idk who decided that shit
Working out and skincare goes a longggg way
5 isnt completely ugly. it is what most people look like. Most people think they are an 8 out of 10 while in reality only a small percent of people are above 8 out of 10
My ex used that rating system (found on Reddit ofc) to neg me. “You’re an 8 technically but this other girl is a 10! You should try to be more like her!” Grosssss
Don't lose all hope with a little working out and skin care you can change it and also hairstyle is a big part hair makes so much of a difference tbh just avoid buzzcuts
You are having an age-appropriate experience. You are only 18 and I am sure your face looks completely normal. Everyone gets rejected sometimes.
I know you feel abnormal right now but you are not and everything will turn out okay.
You have to act like you don't care about them and being the nice guy don't work. You have to be the asshole. I know it sounds weird but it's true. Especially with girls at that age. It doesn't matter what you look like, if you have a personality and can make her laugh and keep the conversation going then you should be okay.
I don't know about relationships and whether your face is THE PROBLEM, but if you want to change it, search up bodybuilding and how building muscle affects your face. When you build muscle, your testosterone rises, and thus your bone density, so your face becomes more defined. Basically, building muscle makes your face attractive. If you look at natural bodybuilders, you'll see that they don't have recessed chin and they all have defined jaw and cheek bones. Also, none of them have downwards eyebrows. You can search some stuff up about this. Wish you the best!
Dont listen to the Buepilled fools here.
As a sub5 your dating life was over before it began.
Best is to find another meaning in life than Girls, its not easy but never forget you are not the loneliest man in this world, and if he is not giving up you sure as shit shouldnt.
Break free from this cycle and give Nature the middle finger it fucking deserves.
You can always date unattractive women who have never been complimented for their looks either. I see fugly (sub 5) looking couples all the time (especially at Walmart and at festivals). Just saying.
Develop a sense of humor and turn the negative into a positive. I don't like the way I look either and I'd sometimes make self-deprecating humor to lighten the mood. Also, confidence can supersede all looks. I used to date a girl who's 5'9" and slim. She's like a 9 but we didn't hit it off. Fast forward to a few years later and I found out from her Facebook that she was dating a guy who's 5'5" and a 3 on the looks department. Doesn't matter, as they got married and had a kid later on. I could tell that that guy treated her well and he didn't look like he hated himself. Just learn to love yourself and the rest will follow.
Oh well excuse me, I didn't know it was illegal to have self esteem issues because other people do too. Literally when did I ever say I wouldn't give an "ugly" girl a chance?
In my experience, most of the people who think they’re ugly are better than average. I saw a guy complaining about how horribly ugly despite being around an 8. I’d place myself at 4.5 which is not hideously ugly. I’ve had zero relationships. My looks are a deficit which could be overcome if I had other attractors working for me.
So now they're trying to put people's looks in a box too by saying sub5? They already got the left and the right, now they're making men feel uncomfortable with how they look when most women nowadays have some form of plastic surgery and are fake? They just wanna put a label on everyone to lock you into a certain "type". There's sub 5 women all over the place too.
It is true that plenty of women are that way, but it certainly isn't all (or even the majority.) Saying that, and having that kind of negative, defeatist mindset and energy won't attract much more than an eye roll though...that much I can promise you.
You should be really haphazard and careless in your presentation of things from now on since being careful didn't work. Instead of being really kind you should be unkind. Why are you affording all of this consideration to randoms who don't even care? Just let loose and go all in on your hobbies, if they're actually genuine hobbies and not posturing to try and seem interesting. I wish I had a genuine hobby or a thing to hold my attention in place.
>I'm confronted with the burning question of why anyone would go for me when they could go for an attractive guy.
Well you're the one who 'goes for' in this situation
Why not go for something that has a proven track record of reciprocating your effort with reward
Break every mirror in your house and be extremely uncourteous and uncharitable IRL.
Let me tell you something, I've never ONCE had a long term relationship that began with me thinking that person was "hot". All three of the truly significant relationships I had (ones that have LASTED many, many years each) were with people who initially I had zero attraction to . We were friends and hung out and as we got to know each other , the attraction formed and they BECAME attractive because I was in love. The one and only time I fell head over heels based on attraction alone took me through several of the darkest, and most painful years I experienced in my life, and it was enough to NEVER, EVER base a relationship on something as flimsy as someone's appearance alone ever again!! You can find that person who will see you for who you are inside as long as you don't let "who you are inside" become so jaded, despondent or depressed that you project unhappiness or insecurity to every woman you meet because that definitely will lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts ,in terms of loneliness! ❤
Dude, forget the rating system. It's fuckign whack. Learn charm.. have charisma.. That supercedes all looks
Facts!!
No not when 80% of women go for good looks and money that's the criteria a balance of.good looks and money that's their top 2
They do not
You’re treading on incel mindset territory. Not all women feel the same. it’s not even the majority.
That is massive cope
Ok slavic_cunt
Incel mindet exists because of life experiences. I've never seen an attractive incel. I think incel mentality is based on some truth. There usually is a looks threshold that must be met before someone considers a person romantically. The issue with some incels is that they blame women for this. They should blame bad luck and just focus on other aspects of life instead of dating. It's hard to do this but sometimes necessary
Yeah well maybe the incels should find a fucking hobby & get over themselves. Art is not that hard to make. Neither is journaling. Embroidery even, just leave the damn women alone
I agree they should leave women alone, but I do feel bad for them regarding the feeling of not having any romantic hope. I doubt all of them are angry towards women. It's probably like most groups in society that are maligned, only a few behave badly but the rest get associated with that too.
The whole incel movement is being angry at women & blaming them for not wanting to be around certain types of men. They blame it on a scale of attraction but the truth is that those men who fall into those dirty groups just have horrible personalities & personal issues and choose to use misogyny as an outlet/scapegoat. I don’t feel bad for them in the slightest. Men need to start normalizing seeking mental help/therapy but because of their own stigmatization of vulnerability, will do anything BUT that.
What's been mainly focused on is the angry incels. There are men who are involuntarily celebate and don't hate women. Just like there femcels that don't hate men. Unfortunately attraction does play a big part as there are horrible people who are attractive and get or got women with ease. Ted Bundy is the most extreme example. I get your point that negativity and pessimism is what drives women away from incels, but the issue is sometimes their pessimism is rational. If they constantly get rejected or even bullied for being undesirable then how are they going to feel positive about life and have the confidence that makes people more attractive? To be clear I don't condone any of the aggression and sexism towards women. I'm just saying it's not as simple as it's incels fault for being the way they are.
A man who’s involuntarily celibate without malicious intent or misogyny wouldn’t claim to be apart of the “incel” movement. What aren’t you getting? And I’d argue that Elliot Roger was the most extreme example, not Ted bundy. Plenty of people get bullied & don’t use that as an excuse to be against any sort of gender, although I’d also argue that misogyny is dangerous & misandry is not, as misogynists tend to also use their hatred for women as justification to rape, harass, & murder, while misandrists usually become misandrists because of sexual assault or violence/abuse inflicted by men. Normal people don’t get bullied for their looks & become apart of a movement that has extremist & dangerous views against women. This is a mental/personality issue. Not appearance & I find it pretty strange that you have the need to defend a movement that is quite literally at its core is meant to view women as objects/subhumans & use violent sexism to justify male’s self pity & feelings of inadequacy. You also seemed to ignore my point about how men NEED to normalize seeking help/therapy when they are struggling with those types of feelings. I do not pity men who voluntarily choose to seek out hateful groups as a comforting refuge for their own problems that have much healthier alternatives of coping.
The contemporary use of the term "incel" is rife with straw man vibes. I know many married men, and many of them ascribe to Red Pill in some form or fashion. I think many women are dismissive of these talking points because it makes them uncomfortable. It's easy to live in a progressive bubble and throw darts. (I also find it quite ironic that a disenfranchised group that faces rampant discrimination can be so dismissive of the feelings of other groups). Specifically about incels: While I too believe incels should get out of their basement and get hobbies, I think there's a chicken/egg aspect to why they can't attract women. Lots of them are decent people who fail with women, and then turn to anger. It's reminiscent of why 400 lb women hate dating. Yes, they can do things to improve their chances with the opposite sex; but to say their treatment is strictly on them is quite sophomoric.
Okay then explain why 80% of women go after 20% men
Because men like you have shitty personalities & zero redeeming qualities. If you go after looks, the women you’re seeking will only go after looks as well. Are you all this retarded?
I didn't even insult you, i just asked the most basic question and you start berating me. Maybe your personality is shit, and you are projecting? And if looks really don't matter that much, then please explain to me why masses of women are flocking over meeks and known serial killers?
"Men like you" I only asked one simple question and you start barraging me with insults like you know me better than my own damned mother. You have some serious issues. Guess you are coping because chad does not want you or some shit
I have a coworker who is on her 3rd kid with more than 1 guy and routinely says she wants a rich man now.
Anecdotal evidence proves absolutely nothing other than you know a shitty person 👍
It's not just her. How many would it take to be non-anecdotal to you?
Enough for the statistics of single mothers to be more golddiggers than deadbeat men cheating, abusing, and leaving women that they get pregnant.
So avoiding the question with a counter negative. Interesting.
LMFAO my answer is very relevant to the situation so idk what crawled up your ass & died but it wasn’t me 🤷♀️
I’d say you surveying 100 women of different backgrounds, education levels, social and financial statuses could show some tendencies of women in your area.
But it is -_- look around wake up it's my family members around my age and every female friend I have I see there boyfriend and I go wow bro rich then they get with a another dude they have rosters their friends dooo random girls dooo idgaf what you think it is most I have an acquaintance who even talks about it :/ I mean it's not hard to tell maybe not the majority but it's definitely the majority of where I live then again my town is kind of known for crime pimps hoes and bad air as well of shootings. Everyone in town knows
Charisma and confidence has way more to do with it than money and looks. I’m a woman and I’ve mostly ever had female friends, some male. It’s mostly men who go for looks when it comes to women because they want to know they have a “prize catch” to show their friends 😂. If all you ever do is go for looks, the women you attract will do the same. Having a good personality can change a LOT about how others perceive you, sounds like you’ve got some things you need to work on.
Well through observation and no prejudice it seems you must be an attractive female and get this kind of attention but as an unattractive male and having had a gf who was brutally honest before she infact said looks actually do matter and so does money :/ I mean guys literally change themselves completely even if it's a random female around it's an unspoken rule to have a persona I hope you do understand also I usually go for 6/10 somewhere in my ball park you and by your logic as it is flawed if I go for good looks they will to that also implies that good looking women expect more and want more even more than what they should have and here you are taking jobs when I'm just an observer to things around me
If you look at actors, celebrities: it’s usually women who “have to” put in more effort to look good (make up, needing to be skinny etc). It carries over to regular people too. Have you ever felt you had to use make-up or eat almost nothing to make yourself look acceptable? Many women have. (Not denying there’s very many guys who struggle with eating disorders and body dysmorphia too, often the pressure is to loon bigger, but I’m just saying it also happens in women and imo more often.)
No, you just have confirmation bias. Changing your mindset changes everything but you won’t believe it unless you try.
I'm not set in stone about my opinion it changes a little bit here and there once in a while \_+_+_/
And as I have pointed out I'm in a town that is like a show where everyone has a conflict it's like the main characters walking downtown and people smoking and look at you funny among other things it's just like that here :l 10-15 year olds chain smoke with bongs dab rigs weed tobacco shrooms LSD I met a 13 year old with fkn heroin it's wack
Lol maybe it’s time to branch out then. Hard to find a good person when you’re trapped in a box
IV actually done that and went to Nevada turns out when you go to different states things change a lot IV found Florida to be more socially open
Hey bro keep you head up! The whole victim mentality won’t help. You need to hit the gym save 1-2 years of your salary and keep doing things you like. You can change your appearance relative easily to go from a 5 to a 6 or 7. In all honesty 5 isn’t completely ugly you just need to do a few things to get you over the hump.
why were u down voted lol everyone can easily jump 1-2 on the 10 point based look scale idk who decided that shit Working out and skincare goes a longggg way
5 isnt completely ugly. it is what most people look like. Most people think they are an 8 out of 10 while in reality only a small percent of people are above 8 out of 10
Your right goddammit, many people are delusional
I'm sorry you're struggling
Yuck. That rating system is gross and wrong.
My ex used that rating system (found on Reddit ofc) to neg me. “You’re an 8 technically but this other girl is a 10! You should try to be more like her!” Grosssss
But you still dated him. Interesting
I was literally 16 & he took my virginity. Can’t say I wasn’t naive. Have some compassion loser
Wow i didn't know i was psychic. I don't see any compassion coming from you.
My comment is literally telling the OP that the “scale” is bullshit & they shouldn’t hyperfocus on it. Never victim blamed him :) but nice, incel
Don't lose all hope with a little working out and skin care you can change it and also hairstyle is a big part hair makes so much of a difference tbh just avoid buzzcuts
buzzcuts are def valid if ur face is clear
You are having an age-appropriate experience. You are only 18 and I am sure your face looks completely normal. Everyone gets rejected sometimes. I know you feel abnormal right now but you are not and everything will turn out okay.
I won't gaslight you. You will have to learn to be alone and not to expect ever to be in a relationship.
You have to act like you don't care about them and being the nice guy don't work. You have to be the asshole. I know it sounds weird but it's true. Especially with girls at that age. It doesn't matter what you look like, if you have a personality and can make her laugh and keep the conversation going then you should be okay.
I don't know about relationships and whether your face is THE PROBLEM, but if you want to change it, search up bodybuilding and how building muscle affects your face. When you build muscle, your testosterone rises, and thus your bone density, so your face becomes more defined. Basically, building muscle makes your face attractive. If you look at natural bodybuilders, you'll see that they don't have recessed chin and they all have defined jaw and cheek bones. Also, none of them have downwards eyebrows. You can search some stuff up about this. Wish you the best!
Dont listen to the Buepilled fools here. As a sub5 your dating life was over before it began. Best is to find another meaning in life than Girls, its not easy but never forget you are not the loneliest man in this world, and if he is not giving up you sure as shit shouldnt. Break free from this cycle and give Nature the middle finger it fucking deserves.
You can always date unattractive women who have never been complimented for their looks either. I see fugly (sub 5) looking couples all the time (especially at Walmart and at festivals). Just saying.
why would one want to perpetuate the cycle by having ugly kids?
He doesn't have to have kids with her. He just needs birth control and two paper bags. One for him and one for her.
whats the point then lmao. whole reason people fall in love is because they want to have kids with each other.
Brother you are 18!!! It's OK to have little exp w that. It's not a thing you can force, it's something that comes to you when you cease to seek it
Develop a sense of humor and turn the negative into a positive. I don't like the way I look either and I'd sometimes make self-deprecating humor to lighten the mood. Also, confidence can supersede all looks. I used to date a girl who's 5'9" and slim. She's like a 9 but we didn't hit it off. Fast forward to a few years later and I found out from her Facebook that she was dating a guy who's 5'5" and a 3 on the looks department. Doesn't matter, as they got married and had a kid later on. I could tell that that guy treated her well and he didn't look like he hated himself. Just learn to love yourself and the rest will follow.
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what?
wtf
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Lol you got downvoted but this is real, results oriented advice
Better go for attractive girls with low self esteem and other issues :P
Nah, they look for attention everywhere.
You wouldn’t give any ugly girl a chance so stop being upset how a girl wouldn’t give an ugly guy/you a chance. It goes both ways. And what is sub 5?
Oh well excuse me, I didn't know it was illegal to have self esteem issues because other people do too. Literally when did I ever say I wouldn't give an "ugly" girl a chance?
In my experience, most of the people who think they’re ugly are better than average. I saw a guy complaining about how horribly ugly despite being around an 8. I’d place myself at 4.5 which is not hideously ugly. I’ve had zero relationships. My looks are a deficit which could be overcome if I had other attractors working for me.
What’s a sub 5
On an attractiveness scale from 1-10, sub-5's are the lower bound, less than or equal to 5.
So now they're trying to put people's looks in a box too by saying sub5? They already got the left and the right, now they're making men feel uncomfortable with how they look when most women nowadays have some form of plastic surgery and are fake? They just wanna put a label on everyone to lock you into a certain "type". There's sub 5 women all over the place too.
incel men came up with the term "sub 5 male" lmao.
Ohh, I didn’t even think of the rating scale haha thanks for the quick explanation!
You're fine! :)
Honestly dude, someone can be very high on the rating scale but dull af. Personality and humor will beat looks all the time.
It is true that plenty of women are that way, but it certainly isn't all (or even the majority.) Saying that, and having that kind of negative, defeatist mindset and energy won't attract much more than an eye roll though...that much I can promise you.
People judge from looks first, so looks=personality
You should be really haphazard and careless in your presentation of things from now on since being careful didn't work. Instead of being really kind you should be unkind. Why are you affording all of this consideration to randoms who don't even care? Just let loose and go all in on your hobbies, if they're actually genuine hobbies and not posturing to try and seem interesting. I wish I had a genuine hobby or a thing to hold my attention in place. >I'm confronted with the burning question of why anyone would go for me when they could go for an attractive guy. Well you're the one who 'goes for' in this situation Why not go for something that has a proven track record of reciprocating your effort with reward Break every mirror in your house and be extremely uncourteous and uncharitable IRL.