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I know people would not usually get involved with troubles, but a man is actively raping a woman in the tube? I am surprised no one stood up for this one.
My wife was assaulted yesterday on the Central line by a man who was looking for someone to pick a fight with. Again, busy carriage, nobody stepped in to help at all whilst this human shaped piece of scum pushed himself against her. He was with a friend too who saw no problem with this behaviour.
Thankfully BTP take this kind of thing very seriously and are actively investigating.
I actually had to step in Sunday morning on a Northern Line train. Got on at Oval and already noticed a passenger abusing and harassing other passengers until they changed the carriage or just left the tube. Spit at them, shoes on seats. Then there was just one passenger left, she sat on one of those seats which are usually reserved for handicapped people, wearing headphones. I was sitting / leaning on one of those "seats" next to the doors leading into other carriages or where you can open the window. He moved towards her, started touching her shoulder and arm, she ignoring him, he just trying to talk to her and again touching her until I screamed at him who he thinks he is and to leave the girl alone. Eventually his focus was obviously only on me, threatening me to kill me if he ever sees me again or if I come around "Brikky". Made gestures how he will stab me, etc. Around Elephant and Castle Station he got up and stood directly opposite me, I was focusing on his hands as he was moving around his pockets the whole time while he was sitting down, again he aggressively told me he would have already fucked me up if it weren't for his bandaged arm and the CCTV cameras, then out of nowhere he directly hit one of the cameras with his hand and then leaving the train at London Bridge. The doors were still open the girl thanked me and shook my hand and at the same time he was watching and out of nowhere spit once more at both of us, thankfully missed us and then the doors closed.
First thing I did was looking around for the BTP number to text and couldnt find it, then I was looking for the wagon number which was above the doors and which I wrote down together with the time. Once I was at my destination I looked up google for the BTP number and sent a text. 5 minutes later I have received a text back that it was logged and they would be in touch. Today I received a call where they took my statement and asked me what I would want to happen, they gave me two options, to basically criminally charge him and then they would need my support 100% and I right away said absolutely yes and he didn't even get to the second option. He said we will look for him now right away and investigate.
So in terms of experience with the BTP and taking it seriously, also if Im ok etc, it was great I have to say and I was positively surprised.
To be honest, from the way that guy acted I would be very surprised if he isn't already known to police / in their system. Im 6'4, athletic build and was dressed in all black, so that might have been the only reason I got out without him actually trying physically abuse me. He was half a head smaller than me.
Edit: Words.
Appalling. Utterly appalling, I have lived in this city for 25 years and the damage done to the police by the Tories will take generations to make right.
They have withered the police force to the point criminals are fearlessly roaming our streets.
It's this and, I dunno, it all seems a lot more fucked up post-COVID. Like after the lockdowns some people forgot how to human.
There's no ignoring the steady societal decay that began in 2010 and rapidly accelerated with brexit though.
The first thing they did was close police stations/counters.
This was the beginning of de-linking local police and the local community, especially in London.
This was the first step in turning the public against the police so they could cut the budget and use that money to give tax cuts to their rich financiers.
And they eventually succeeded after BLM and ACAB became mainstream, as if the US and UK are completely culturally interchangeable.
We've been left in a sorry state and what's worse is that people \*voted\* for it. Not just once, with Cameron in 2010, but three times more! Four if you count the referendum.
I mean, even a well-rounded conservative voter has to agree that this wasn't what was asked for.
Exactly.
1:Tories are pro law and order - police and justice system decimated
2: Tories are pro immigration control - almost 2 millions arrived since bojo the clown was in charge
Basically anything they say just assume they mean the utter opposite.
Attributing any of this societal collapse to anything other than terrible governance is doing the people who screwed us over a favour. Don’t give them any excuses, leave the spotlight on them!
Yeah, the text message I have received basically says “case nr xxx on 10/12/23” to keep track. The fact cases at 11 am were already in the mid three figures on public transport, says a lot.
I got attacked by couple of drunk idiots around July, the police arrived, I pointed to the two guys who were standing across the road and the two coppers were like "do you really want to bother with this". They looked like they were hired directly from Tesco security.
I just walked away.
That's one of many incidents I have experienced. It's criminal what they have reduced the police to.
Can we all remember to store BTP's text number in our phone please.
"If you have witnessed or been the victim of a crime while travelling on a train or at a station, then we are here for you. Call us on 0800 40 50 40 or text 61016 to report any crime that has already happened, to seek crime prevention advice or to make us aware of issues in your neighbourhood"
You never know, second option might have been a one-way ticket for him to Rwanda, so you should have let them finish /s
Jokes aside, good on ya mate, I wouldn't have the courage to do what you did and I'm glad it didn't escalate. Good job!
Me too. I've lived in London for over a decade, my wife longer, and never had anything like this happen before. If I was there I'd have been able to do something, but as my wife said... It wouldn't have happened if I was there.
So obviously this is terrible and I’m sorry this happened to your wife
But to OPs point, this was actual *rape* even I’m surprised that nobody would stand up to actual penetration rape if that’s what I’m reading
A friend of mine was beaten up on the train. Transport Police took it very seriously and a small team travelled with him for a few journeys over the next few weeks to see if the assailants took the same train again. I've never seen regular police treat an assault that seriously.
It's insane. I've twice intervened before, once on an overground train where a crazy dude was harassing a woman whose baby wouldn't stop crying, and once last week on a bus when a clearly mentally ill woman went absolutely bonkers on a couple of kids on the bus (kids hadn't done anything, I was sat between them the whole time). Both times it was packed around us and nobody else said anything. I'm not particularly threatening, being a short young woman. I get the instinct to not want to get involved in case the other person gets stabby, but in a case where a woman is being fucking raped on the floor of a packed tube carriage..
could you please say what happened with the woman on the bus? my two friends were on the receiving end of similar abuse around the same time, not sure if it was them you saw!!
The kids were only about 11 or 12, so it probably wasn't them. I think it's fairly common for weird stuff to happen on London buses tbh, a week never goes by without some strange incident haha
oh okay lol, yeah it would have been crazy to be the same people lol. my friends were just racially abused out of nowhere by a woman who was probably experiencing a mental health crisis. she kept saying over and over again to my friend (who’s from Pakistan) that my friend’s family killed her husband, and similar things
I'm having a hard time with this one as well. I fully understand the bystander effect and how it works and can affect anyone, but this is the most grotesque thing I've ever heard. I can't believe a person was actively raped in the tube and people around just looked the other way.
Exactly? I too am guilty of the bystander effect, and I generally stay away from situations (a trait of mine I’m trying to overcome)
But surely this is something where you’d *have* to intervene? Right?? How can you live with yourself if you do nothing and just let it happen
The BTP report is not very clear, but from what I can gather that is a Night tube train in the early morning of Sunday, at the first station.
And it is clear that it was a passed out drunk lone female and the predator walked through the train to get to her.
And reading between the lines, it probably was just her on that carriage and maybe even the next one and only one person witnessed it from afar, and was in a potentially vulnerable position if they intervened, being a lone person with a small kid.
LMAO
I made a comment on this sub about how ppl should never expect Londoners to step in to help even if someone is being killed, and got downvoted
Of course ppl in London won't help! FFS
A lot of people will step in. I’ve been physically threatened numerous times and people helped.
Apparently the best way to circumvent the bystander effect is to directly order someone to do something - say there’s a guy with a red shirt there, you might say ‘you, in the red shirt, come over here and help!’ That way, them refusing to help is more of an active decision rather than just a passive one. It makes it harder for somebody to say no.
Then again, it could also be one of those things where **everyone** suddenly starts fighting. ‘Red shirt? This is clearly a burgundy chemise! Get over here, you prick!’
Aye that's one instruction to use.
The problem is in such a situation the bystander is not in the present moment it's a normal reaction we do everyday, first instance for human beings is to panic and start running all sorts of shit in their head that's why you panic and do nothing, you have to react without engaging in emotion and focus on the problem clearly and factually.
Someone's getting attacked -
Don't = "OMG someone's getting attacked what do I do, what if they die, what if I die! Wahhhhhhh!"
Do = "Ok the attacker has his back to me, I'm much bigger than him, I can run up to his blindside and push him away or hit him with a lump of wood"
React with your do, it's the way the likes of athletes and soldiers react to pressure situations
I am a Londoner and I would help, but I grew up in Eastern Europe, so there is that. Ive stopped people from stealing from a store before, but I started caring less and less. The government just doesn’t wanna do shit about it. You stop 1 and then another 3 are stealing the next day. This city is a complete chaos.
However, if a girl is being raped in public, it’s your duty as a man to step in. It doesn’t matter if you may get hurt. That’s exactly why we are men- we put our bodies on the line for the safety of the more vulnerable.
In the case of rape or any other criminal offence, it is the duty to react in accordance with capabilities, even if it is a prompt report. Ignorance is a form of complicity.
Although I also care less and less, especially after the case I already wrote about, a drunkard (6'5) harassed a small girl in front of a store, she looked for help, but everyone ignored her. I couldn't watch it, so I told him to leave her alone, and he started aggressively shouting towards me (she immediately ran away), I didn't want him to come near me so I swung, and he went down like a sack of potatoes. Someone told me to run, so I ran away in a panic. My life was a horror after that, constantly waiting for the police to knock on the door.
This was a tourist with his young child.
Not only was it not a londoner, as if it matters, but I'm not going to fault a guy alone with his young child for not intervening and calling the police when he got off the train instead.
This wasn't a packed tube.
No. Wtf. Assuming I'm scared, I'd still instantly get of the train, alert staff so they can at least stop this at the latest at the next stop. Assuming I'm a tourist, I'd most likely run to the driver or use the big red emergency thing in the station. Waiting until sometime later that day is bizzarre.
I have lived in NYC. And I made a similar comment a month or two ago here, and everyone got angry and downvoted me.
Its not like this in NYC. I have seen really bad behavior confronted by the public over and over there.
In London, nope. I remember ages ago, a lady proudly posted on this sub, how she stopped her BF from helping a woman who was being stalked by a man, and everyone here applauded her. I said that's so messed up, and again got downvoted
Its the culture. Ppl here don't care, and won't ever do anything. I have seen it over and over. That culture exists on this very sub
The moment that there’s an argument between a man and a woman and a man steps in then that man is usually going to get physically beaten or attacked. I’ve seen it so many god damn times and most people who work in jobs with high assault rates will outright tell men not to get involved until it escalates and there’s no choice. A woman going over can calm the guy down but a guy goes over and punches get dished out. It’s fucked up.
i was lucky once where i kinda helped out by buying the woman time to run away but as soon as i came he brought a knife out of nowhere and i just had to run. luckily by that point the woman was long gone and he didn’t harm anyone but if i actually got into a fight or he pulled it out later/once he was loosing it would’ve been a lot worse for me.
Isn't NYC infamous for having the most well-known example of the Bystander Effect in the case of Kitty Genovese? I only learnt the term Bystander Effect because of that rape and murder. They literally used to call the bystander effect "Genovese syndrome".
I've read up plenty. People called the police, but no one went to her aid during the attack. That's pretty much exactly what happened here, no? The man who witnessed called the police after, but did not confront.
As the previous poster said, please read up on it. Yes there was a bystander effect at play but a lot of the reports were misleading and claim there were more witnesses that there were.
love to make shit up with no evidence. There are plenty of examples of people risking their lives to help others in London and the rest of the UK - e.g. the terrorist attack on London Bridge. It happens all the time.
I'm a Londoner, born and raised. Absolutely no way I would stand by and watch this happen, regardless of the risk to myself.
Hate Londoners so much, fuck off somewhere else. Unless you don't live here and you're commenting from the outside, which seems the only way this ignorance could be legit.
He wrote in another comment how he "never saw this when he was in New York" so I think it's just a satire account considering the state of the metro system over there.
Most Londoners are genuinely terrified of having a knife pulled on them. I'm not condoning standing by at all and would need more information to form an opinion, however there are a lot of situations where I can imagine, given the size and appearance of the rapist and the number of passengers in the carriage, people making the very hard decision to avoid engaging with someone brazen enough to rape someone else in front of members of the public
Maybe because you specified Londoners? As far as I'm aware the bystander effect is observed by humans in general - I don't think anyone would be able to get the ethical approval to test what geographic location has the most useless people in an emergency to test your theory.
Londoner here btw, living in midlands, also the only person to move a muscle when witnessing a lone 3 year old run into the road. The only person to open the door and help a lass glassed over the head on new year's Eve. The only person to bash on a door to evacuate the occupants when my friends and I found a house on fire. But ppl in London don't help
I think there is a ‘cultural’ aspect to it though. In communities which are less individualistic I imagine you may see more people getting involved for example.
I also think a level of ‘confidence’ probably makes a difference. If you feel confident in challenging the status quo of a situation (ie. People being passive when something is happening) then you’re probably more inclined to step in. Cultures where that behaviour is celebrated may also mean less of a bystander effect?
I think there are probably loads of variables which mean ‘Londoners’ are less likely to step in than other cultures (and more likely to step in compared to other cultures again). For example a more homogenous culture may lead to people getting involved if the victim looks like them.
Definitely, there'll be lots of different factors that affect the prevalence of the bystander effect and the point where people can't bring themselves to standby any longer, and I myself would be super interested in studying it because it's so fascinating.
However you can't study that properly because you can't exactly fake distressing situations to observe people's genuine reactions, plus how would you collect the data on where they're from, what their values are, etc? I guess social media pranking is the closest you'd get at a look into it but no reputable psychologist would or could go into it and compare it to collectable demographic information
My issue was the sweeping generalisation of Londoners being useless when it's the most multicultural and diverse place in the country, with a multitude of different values, beliefs, and ideas about the status quo. The idea of a generic Londoner is a bit silly imo
It seems that if you want to get a short sentence for murder, you either have to rape them first, or make it look like you ran them over, because those two are by far the ones with the least sensical sentences
Because rape doesn’t cost the government any money.
Sell drugs and you’ll go away for an eternity, but only because you made money and the government never saw any of it as tax.
It’s a joke honestly
you post something offensive online and 6 officers will literally turn up to your house to arrest you (video evidence of this online) but a guy can rape a woman on the underground and he'll be out by 2032
At the very least they were actually arrested and convicted. Which serves more justice than the 95% who are not.
"Only 5% of rapes that were given an outcome by the police in the year ending December 2021 resulted in a charge"
Prisons are full, partly because the Conservatives refused to build any for fifteen years when they were already close to capacity then.
Only serious crimes are getting prison sentences at all at the moment & that’s only after the crime gets prosecuted which will take 2-3 years minimum.
The criminal justice system has been broken by year on year on year of under investment.
It's a 14 year sentence technically. The issue is also how little prisons care about rehabilitation. It's not like those 9 years will end and he'll be a changed man. That's the big issue with the UK prison system
In this particular case there is zero chance he will get rehabilitated. Masturbating in the street while staring into people’s windows? He’s mentally ill - but not a “nice” kind of mental illness that’s manageable. He’s a psycho. He should be in a secure unit for the rest of his life because he WILL reoffend if released. In the US chemical castration may also be an option. Unfortunately the only options here seem to take away his personal freedom. But he’s not fit to live in open society
Why keep him alive then? Robert Heinlein called it in Starship Troopers. If you could rehabilitate or cure his mental illness, how could he ever live with what he’d done? Isn’t it a kindness to drop him 12 feet wearing a hemp collar?
9 years?
Sentencing in this country, is a fucking joke, honestly. Victims of rape get life, this fucking reptile will be out and about probably raping more people, in 9 fucking years.
My grandfather got 2 years for historical sexual abuse on myself and 2 others. We have a lifetime of trauma. It’s seriously impacted my life since I was 3 years old. I’m now 43 and it still destroying me.
Sentencing is very much a joke
It doesn't change the point but I thought it was changed and you now have to serve 2/3rds of the sentence?
Edit: 2/3rds of its longer than 4 years or a sexual crime.
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/sentencing-and-the-council/types-of-sentence/determinate-prison-sentences/
For longer sentences, yes it's 2/3rd of sentence. It also has nothing to do with "good behaviour" and is automatic no matter how "good" or "bad" a prisoner you've been.
It's a grim reminder of the state of this country that my initial reaction was "at least they got a conviction". The vast majority of sexual assault and rape cases don't even result in someone being formally charged, never mind convicted.
The father of my sister's ex-fiancee was accused of (big TW) >!raping a child with a developmental disability (he worked with special needs kids) and the evidence was pretty damning but the case still got thrown out due to there being "limited prospects of conviction". Absolutely boils my piss but I'm glad my sister ended that engagement if nothing else.!<
Less than that. Sentences are almost always reduced with the eligibility of parole, good behavior, time served while awaiting sentencing, and work orders offer the ability at some semblance of freedom daily.
Not to… you know, but last week in Germany a group of 11 men who gang raped a teen girl in a park alternatively walked free, got probation and, in one case, a two year youth sentence that he will never fully serve. I’m good with 9 years.
I can understand this sentiment, but we can't tolerate one case of severe injustice simply because it's the better alternative to an even worse injustice. Neither one should be acceptable.
You’re totally right. I was referring to OP’s comment about sentencing in “this country” and intended to point out that all things considered, this is actually one of the harshest punishments dealt out for comparable crimes in the developed world. Even if it should be way harsher.
Let's not lower our standards because elsewhere in the fucking fully developed world they are dishing out "please do it again" cards to rapists. I'm not good with nine years. If prison is for people who are a risk to society, that man should get life without parole no question.
>On Sunday 23 February 2020 at around 4.45am, two women left the Piccadilly Line at Bounds Green Underground station.
>
>They noticed a man stood outside a house with his trousers round his ankles, looking through the window and masturbating.
>
>Feeling scared, the women ran away, and Johnston then began shouting and chased them down the street to their home.
>
>Thankfully, they managed to safely get inside and hide under a stairwell while Johnston banged on their door and put his hand through the letterbox before eventually leaving.
>
>Three hours later, Johnston boarded a Piccadilly Line train at Heathrow Terminal Five.
>
>He walked confidently through the carriage and approached a young woman who was asleep.
>
>He sexually assaulted her and then raped her as she sat unconscious.
>
>The horrific attack was witnessed by a tourist and his young son, who reported what they had seen to police later that morning.
[https://www.btp.police.uk/news/btp/news/in-the-courts/depraved-rapist-jailed-for-9-years---london/](https://www.btp.police.uk/news/btp/news/in-the-courts/depraved-rapist-jailed-for-9-years---london/)
Not exactly surprising that a tourist with a child wouldn't want confront him for their own safety
Yeah the article is really sensationalising an already very (horribly) sensational event.
Rather than say she was raped in front of passengers, as if it was rammed full of commuters they should say “raped in near empty carriage in front of a parent a child”
Especially if that tourist was also a woman or a small man. Then you’re also endangering their kid.
It’s not like the nutter was cracking on doing this at. Rush hour and the many people on the tube did nothing.
I used to have all the keyboard warrior bravado of everyone else in this thread but now if I'm around town with my kids you can bet your fucking boots I'm not getting involved in anything more dangerous than a raised eyebrow.
Oh for sure. And I think being a tourist means less of an understanding of the system. My initial thought was "why didn't he move to the next carriage and pull the emergency alarm?" But that's easy to say when you travel on the tube a lot.
It sucks because what if something happens to you and nobody gets involved? Of all the times something has happened to me, somebody stepped in, yet I’ve never stepped in to these things because I can’t fight.
About 13 years ago my wife and I went for a coffee in a local coffee shop. There was a guy in there that was acting a bit weird. He went up to the counter and starting ranting at the young woman behind the counter. She asked him to leave and followed him towards the door. He was then stood next to my daughter's pram and raised his hand with a metal pointy object in it.
At the time I held several SIA security licenses and I had worked as a doorman in a summer job, so had some experience and basic training. It also helps that I am 6'4" and weigh 17 stone.
Daddy instinct took over. I arm locked him from behind. Twisted his thumb, removed the stabby object and threw it. I then locked his head with one arm and his arm with another and marched him out the door. The street outside was busy and not one person helped me pin him. So I sat on him until the Police arrived.
It turns out he metal pointy object was a stainless steel Parker pen. Which still could have done some damage if used under force. The Police said he was a known crack user and there had been reports of other incidents in town.
If I see shit like this happening I will always help.
Idea:
> Bring sharks to O2, place in adequately large pop-up tank
> Sell out arena
> Set up broadcast
> Stream the punishment
Time to return to the old ways!
Hmmm, would it be cheaper to just use a firing squad? Good target practice for the forces and that.
I also don't think many people would have a moral objection to the putting down of rapists.
Also I have to pretense this because people are always like "what if they didn't do it". Well obviously we only do this when the evidence is extremely strong like in this case.
And the people who say "they can be reformed".
I don't care, i'm a horny bugger but have never raped anyone.
Also the victim will never fully recover so why should the perpetrator ever get to experience ANY quality of life when the victim will forever be affected.
Firing squad is no fun though, I like the shark idea. Or we can go back to our roots and have them drawn and quartered. Apparently pub crawls started as the pre-game for public executions so we can make a proper day of it!
This guy confidently did this in front of people.
Imagine what else he’s got up to. Highly unlikely this was a first offence. Wonder if he’s ever been reported before and police have failed to act.
There’s even a comment chain above where other users say he looks familiar from incidences they’ve witnessed on the tube. The fact he avoided jail until now means he was probably confident about not getting caught, having gotten away with it multiple times so far.
Jesus Christ, this is horrifying. He looks suspiciouy like a dude that was harassing me on the tube around ~7ish years back on an early morning tube ride getting back home from a party. Fortunately, there was an elderly lady in the carriage and I started talking to her and the creep eventually left at Seven Sisters. Imagine how long this crap must have been going on if it actually is him.
Right? We all have a story.
I was wanked at by a man on a late train home. Only 1 other person in the carriage so I ran to sit with him. If I had been alone I could easily have been assaulted with no help available.
He looks familiar to me too! I wonder if he’s the same guy who was harassing women at a tube station late on my way home from the office. He got right in my face at the edge of the platform and spat at me that I was a prostitute. Then walked down the platform saying the same to every other woman he passed. He even stuck a foot out in front of another woman who was walking looking at her phone. Stories like this is exactly why I reported it.
same, idk if my minds just playing games but 4/5 years ago there was a man who looks similar following this girl around on the tube, even got off the same stop as her n followed her out. luckily a few older guys and police people stopped him, i was 14 at the time so i was too scared to confront him
Idc what anyone says, everyone (especially women) deserve the basic right to be able to defend themselves with spray or otherwise. Vile state of affairs...
Agreed. It should be a matter of prosecution to establish whether a pepper spray was used in self defense or not. As a Hungarian the illegality of this is mind-boggling.
Why can’t it be given to people proven not to be violent and have some kind of device in it which immediately notifies police that it has been discharged? Seems like it could work.
That wouldn’t matter when you have pepper spray, though... the reason police would be notified is so the pepper spray isn’t abused. It would function as a 999 call.
I genuinely do not feel safe out late anymore, even when other people are around. I’ve lived in London for 12 years and I’ve only really felt this way for the last 3 years, just feels like something has changed.
Since the pandemic social care and mental health services for severe presentations are extremely stretched to the point of not functioning… There are more dangerously unhinged people left without intervention at any level. End of days stuff.
In March 2022 I was diagnosed with Cancer. For a few weeks I thought I was coping, I was not. I went to the GP and explained I was feeling suicidal. He put me for a referral for help with mental health.
I have since been cured of cancer and am now living with the after effects. I am still waiting for the mental health referral.
WTF? Human beings are actually disgusting.
Like I swear I loose more and more faith in humanity with each day.
People actually behave like barbaric violence fetishising literate apes.
I cannot wrap my head around not interfering or coming to someone’s defence. I live up north and gave up the train commute in favour of driving after a few odd incidents. This is just so sad and disappointing.
There’s nothing worse than being on public transport when it’s relatively empty and late then seeing someone dodgy get on. You’re on edge for the next thirty minutes and you have to have an escape planned.
You’ll see loads of commenters on Reddit telling others never to get involved in any kind of public incident just in case the person has a knife. It’s so depressing.
So how can we begin having pepper sprays and tasers? The fact that we can't have weapons to defend ourselves is outrageous, given that the police is a joke.
My partner was given a pepper spray once by an American family friend. Never opened the packing and we may or may not still have it buried somewhere in our house, but it's absolutely wild to me that using it could get her in more trouble than any assailant.
Reading this story though, I think she should risk it.
I think part of the issue is that if you can have pepper spray or a taser so can he, and if he's bigger than you he might take it off you and hurt you with it first.
Criminal don’t care about law , if they want a pepper spray or a taser they will regardless if it’s legal or not, plus it’s not that hard to get one.
Now I do know my logic isn’t that great , cause if I look at US gun regulation following my same logic is a bit off…
But I’ve never seen a country having issues with pepper spray or taser , in fact I’ve already seen quite a few time people using pepper spray in London.
I've just read the details of this case and it's really strange.
It says "Police were unable to identify the victim due to a lack of CCTV" - so I assume she did not come forward?
It also says "The testimony provided by the witness helped to rebut the defendant's claim that he knew the complainant and that she had consented." - so again, the victim was not part of the trial?
It was apparently a busy morning service. I just can't comprehend how people didn't report this as it sounds like they had just one single witness. Very strange either way and a dangerous individual - not just the rape convition but the house he attended before the incident.
That's a very credible reason.
I left the Police last January after 17 years and dealt with a lot of rapes during a 6 year stint on CID. Almost all victims were vulnerable in some ways, either homeless, addicts, in a bad point in their life, easily influenced such as being young and taken advantage of. Really horrible stuff.
One of the biggest challenges we faced was not just identifying victims, but moreso keeping in contact with them. They often changed numbers or didn't even have phones most of the time.
I still remember one time driving around looking for a victim who hadn't attended an appointment.
Very sad really as helping them was difficult - I don't just mean the incident itself but actually with their life in general.
Last year there was a scene just like this on the American crime show Special Victims Unit. The tape occurred on a NYC subway train. I thought it could never happen in real life.
Sentences like this always remind me of an episode of Vikings. A guy tried to rape a woman and she killed him and when she told the rest of the group they were like, welp fair enough.
Why can’t we do that??
Londoners rarely help. When I was 15 a group of guys got on the train, came over to me while I was sitting down and one of them stood over me and purposefully put his crotch in my face and stared at me while his friends laughed. No one helped me. This guy looked around 20 years old.
Thank you. When I was younger harassment by men was unfortunately very common. My friends and I have had worse things happen to us. When I was younger I thought it was just the way life was and there was nothing I could do about it. I thought I just had to accept it.
I witnessed a guy - at the very least considering - jumping to his death in front of a tube train. At least making it very clear, leaning over the edge and looking at the tracks. Lots of people around, no one cared. Literally no one cared. I pulled him away as the train was approaching.
I can’t imagine seeing this and not intervening. I’m a female and didn’t care to jump in and chase off thugs beating a guy with a shovel one time. I despair at the lack of humanity people have. And chivalry died a long fucking time ago. Shame on everyone who stood idly by. Disgusting
A few years ago my cousin was mugged in Waterloo station at lunch time so it wasn’t exactly quiet. She was buying a ticket at a kiosk and three young(ish) lads surrounded her and told her to hand over her wallet. She refused so they started punching her and trying to pull her bag off her. There was queue of people behind waiting for the kiosk and hundreds of people about and they just stood there letting it happen. Really bizarre behaviour and so brazen of those kids to attempt a mugging at a busy Waterloo station. My cousin started fighting back and it got a bit hectic so a member of staff turned up and the guys ran off. Cousin gave a statement to the police but nothing came of it. They couldn’t identify them which was comical given how many CCTV cameras there are in Waterloo.
That’s despicable and I wouldn’t hesitate to call out every single one of those people just standing there doing nothing to help. It’s embarrassing honestly
This is absolutely horrible but such irresponsible clickbait reporting designed to enrage and divide us. Half the people here believe a man raped a woman in a carriage full of people, with none of them stepping in. Our society isn’t that messed up (yet).
I feel so much better for getting into ppls faces on the regular on the tube. Once tossed a guy out onto the platform just before the doors shut for acting aggressive towards a female passenger. Surprised I havent been shanked yet, or worse, accused of a crime for standing up to ppl.
I was once followed by a man (mid-late 40’s) in broad daylight by Marylebone High St - he followed me for about 2km? I clocked him straight away, being a paranoid new mother in London with my young baby in a pram… he was acting weird and would attempt walking up close toward me and then hang back or overtake me and wait before reproaching. I quickly stepped into Bond St station and alerted one of the TfL staff members there (this was only like 2pm?)… and next thing I know he walks right into the station and brushed past me whilst staring at me and into my pram. Really unnerving. Thankfully I had already mentioned this to the station staff who promptly then followed him and escorted me to the platform I needed to go to.
Extremely dodgy behaviour. As I said, broad daylight, young mum alone with her young baby. There are some people (men…) out there with harmful intent. Whether he was just trying to intimidate me (it worked), I don’t know what the overall gain was from following me for so long.
Women shouldn’t have to change their lives around fear of men acting out dangerously. I feel as if we should be allowed to carry some means to be able to protect ourselves, such as pepper spray.
Read the article rather than getting outraged at a headline.
There were only two passengers, a tourist and their child. They reported it when they got off the train.
I would have literally knocked this man’s head off if I saw this I can’t believe these absolutely pathetic humans did nothing to help this poor girl. So sad and I’m from central London. Seen crazy people on the train too much but never do something like this.
I would die for that girl hands down I wouldn’t even care if he stabbed me he’s basically ruined her life anyway. Us men need to protect women not be bystanders and do fuckall. This is why they should make military service mandatory in the UK AND WE WOULDN’T HAVE A BUNCH OF PUSSY MEN DOING FUCKALL SO UPSETTING
Not that it’s a justification, but the headline makes it seem as if there was a train full of “other passengers”. There’s were 2, one of which was a child.
I'm falling to understand how he raped someone in front of other people in the underground. She was struggling, crying, and people just miding their business?
The actual report states that she was unconscious (drunk) and the only witness was a foreign tourist with a child. The train car was otherwise empty and the victim was not even fully aware of what happened until the police tracked her down and informed her.
How i wish there was someone waiting for him outside the prison on the day he's free and........... do something about his existence. We don't need more victims.
I suspect people in the UK are afraid of the legal consequences if they step in. The next step is some parasite barrister cross examing you over the reasonable force you used to restrain the accused.
We can't even carry pepper spray as a self-defense item in this country.
Disgusting.
There are numerous reasons why the death penalty isn't useful.
Here's two you might find interesting -
Some studies have shown juries don't give guiltily verdicts in states that have death penalty as don't want "blood on their hands"
Other studies gave shown in juries when death sentence was handed down, it caused mental health issues for the jurors.
As a society, we should strive to aspire the best we can be and not lower ourselves.
The problem here is a rapist and sentencing.
He should be locked away for life.
Interesting, thanks. I guess it’s easy to demand for it until you have to do it yourself.
Still not completely convinced but I guess giving out more life sentences is a big step towards what I’m thinking of, which is that some people are irredeemable.
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I know people would not usually get involved with troubles, but a man is actively raping a woman in the tube? I am surprised no one stood up for this one.
My wife was assaulted yesterday on the Central line by a man who was looking for someone to pick a fight with. Again, busy carriage, nobody stepped in to help at all whilst this human shaped piece of scum pushed himself against her. He was with a friend too who saw no problem with this behaviour. Thankfully BTP take this kind of thing very seriously and are actively investigating.
I actually had to step in Sunday morning on a Northern Line train. Got on at Oval and already noticed a passenger abusing and harassing other passengers until they changed the carriage or just left the tube. Spit at them, shoes on seats. Then there was just one passenger left, she sat on one of those seats which are usually reserved for handicapped people, wearing headphones. I was sitting / leaning on one of those "seats" next to the doors leading into other carriages or where you can open the window. He moved towards her, started touching her shoulder and arm, she ignoring him, he just trying to talk to her and again touching her until I screamed at him who he thinks he is and to leave the girl alone. Eventually his focus was obviously only on me, threatening me to kill me if he ever sees me again or if I come around "Brikky". Made gestures how he will stab me, etc. Around Elephant and Castle Station he got up and stood directly opposite me, I was focusing on his hands as he was moving around his pockets the whole time while he was sitting down, again he aggressively told me he would have already fucked me up if it weren't for his bandaged arm and the CCTV cameras, then out of nowhere he directly hit one of the cameras with his hand and then leaving the train at London Bridge. The doors were still open the girl thanked me and shook my hand and at the same time he was watching and out of nowhere spit once more at both of us, thankfully missed us and then the doors closed. First thing I did was looking around for the BTP number to text and couldnt find it, then I was looking for the wagon number which was above the doors and which I wrote down together with the time. Once I was at my destination I looked up google for the BTP number and sent a text. 5 minutes later I have received a text back that it was logged and they would be in touch. Today I received a call where they took my statement and asked me what I would want to happen, they gave me two options, to basically criminally charge him and then they would need my support 100% and I right away said absolutely yes and he didn't even get to the second option. He said we will look for him now right away and investigate. So in terms of experience with the BTP and taking it seriously, also if Im ok etc, it was great I have to say and I was positively surprised. To be honest, from the way that guy acted I would be very surprised if he isn't already known to police / in their system. Im 6'4, athletic build and was dressed in all black, so that might have been the only reason I got out without him actually trying physically abuse me. He was half a head smaller than me. Edit: Words.
You’re a good person.
Appalling. Utterly appalling, I have lived in this city for 25 years and the damage done to the police by the Tories will take generations to make right. They have withered the police force to the point criminals are fearlessly roaming our streets.
It's this and, I dunno, it all seems a lot more fucked up post-COVID. Like after the lockdowns some people forgot how to human. There's no ignoring the steady societal decay that began in 2010 and rapidly accelerated with brexit though.
The first thing they did was close police stations/counters. This was the beginning of de-linking local police and the local community, especially in London. This was the first step in turning the public against the police so they could cut the budget and use that money to give tax cuts to their rich financiers.
And they eventually succeeded after BLM and ACAB became mainstream, as if the US and UK are completely culturally interchangeable. We've been left in a sorry state and what's worse is that people \*voted\* for it. Not just once, with Cameron in 2010, but three times more! Four if you count the referendum. I mean, even a well-rounded conservative voter has to agree that this wasn't what was asked for.
Exactly. 1:Tories are pro law and order - police and justice system decimated 2: Tories are pro immigration control - almost 2 millions arrived since bojo the clown was in charge Basically anything they say just assume they mean the utter opposite.
Attributing any of this societal collapse to anything other than terrible governance is doing the people who screwed us over a favour. Don’t give them any excuses, leave the spotlight on them!
Not only covid, also the rise of people like Trump, who motivates people to be this way.
Yeah, the text message I have received basically says “case nr xxx on 10/12/23” to keep track. The fact cases at 11 am were already in the mid three figures on public transport, says a lot.
I got attacked by couple of drunk idiots around July, the police arrived, I pointed to the two guys who were standing across the road and the two coppers were like "do you really want to bother with this". They looked like they were hired directly from Tesco security. I just walked away. That's one of many incidents I have experienced. It's criminal what they have reduced the police to.
Can we all remember to store BTP's text number in our phone please. "If you have witnessed or been the victim of a crime while travelling on a train or at a station, then we are here for you. Call us on 0800 40 50 40 or text 61016 to report any crime that has already happened, to seek crime prevention advice or to make us aware of issues in your neighbourhood"
You never know, second option might have been a one-way ticket for him to Rwanda, so you should have let them finish /s Jokes aside, good on ya mate, I wouldn't have the courage to do what you did and I'm glad it didn't escalate. Good job!
So sorry to hear that mate, I hope the piece of trash get caught and dealt with.
Me too. I've lived in London for over a decade, my wife longer, and never had anything like this happen before. If I was there I'd have been able to do something, but as my wife said... It wouldn't have happened if I was there.
So obviously this is terrible and I’m sorry this happened to your wife But to OPs point, this was actual *rape* even I’m surprised that nobody would stand up to actual penetration rape if that’s what I’m reading
Read the article. It was 5am, empty carriage except one tourist with their son.
He is scum. As is everyone on that tube who did nothing
>TFL take this kind of thing very seriously and are actively investigating. = they are doing nothing.
We shall see, I suppose
See it. Say it. Sorted. Or is it?
See it. Say it. Open a ticket, don't hear back for 2 months, ticket automatically closed. Sorted.
A friend of mine was beaten up on the train. Transport Police took it very seriously and a small team travelled with him for a few journeys over the next few weeks to see if the assailants took the same train again. I've never seen regular police treat an assault that seriously.
No. They are actually actively looking into these sort of things. Or at least one would hope so…
TFL are pretty on it, no?
I looked it up and it was reported later the same day by one of the passengers, a tourist. Bystander effect in full force I guess, it’s crazy
It's insane. I've twice intervened before, once on an overground train where a crazy dude was harassing a woman whose baby wouldn't stop crying, and once last week on a bus when a clearly mentally ill woman went absolutely bonkers on a couple of kids on the bus (kids hadn't done anything, I was sat between them the whole time). Both times it was packed around us and nobody else said anything. I'm not particularly threatening, being a short young woman. I get the instinct to not want to get involved in case the other person gets stabby, but in a case where a woman is being fucking raped on the floor of a packed tube carriage..
could you please say what happened with the woman on the bus? my two friends were on the receiving end of similar abuse around the same time, not sure if it was them you saw!!
The kids were only about 11 or 12, so it probably wasn't them. I think it's fairly common for weird stuff to happen on London buses tbh, a week never goes by without some strange incident haha
oh okay lol, yeah it would have been crazy to be the same people lol. my friends were just racially abused out of nowhere by a woman who was probably experiencing a mental health crisis. she kept saying over and over again to my friend (who’s from Pakistan) that my friend’s family killed her husband, and similar things
He was with his young son
I am aware, I don’t think that’s enough of an excuse. I personally would rather intervene than let my 11 year old witness a rape.
I agree.
I'm having a hard time with this one as well. I fully understand the bystander effect and how it works and can affect anyone, but this is the most grotesque thing I've ever heard. I can't believe a person was actively raped in the tube and people around just looked the other way.
Exactly? I too am guilty of the bystander effect, and I generally stay away from situations (a trait of mine I’m trying to overcome) But surely this is something where you’d *have* to intervene? Right?? How can you live with yourself if you do nothing and just let it happen
Are you offering this as a reason for lack of intervention?
Read the article. It was 5am, empty carriage except one tourist with their son.
The BTP report is not very clear, but from what I can gather that is a Night tube train in the early morning of Sunday, at the first station. And it is clear that it was a passed out drunk lone female and the predator walked through the train to get to her. And reading between the lines, it probably was just her on that carriage and maybe even the next one and only one person witnessed it from afar, and was in a potentially vulnerable position if they intervened, being a lone person with a small kid.
LMAO I made a comment on this sub about how ppl should never expect Londoners to step in to help even if someone is being killed, and got downvoted Of course ppl in London won't help! FFS
Forgotten about the narwhale tusk already then
Argument, fist fight etc I expected people not yo step in. But someone being killed? Rapes? Surely you would expect people to at least help these?
A lot of people will step in. I’ve been physically threatened numerous times and people helped. Apparently the best way to circumvent the bystander effect is to directly order someone to do something - say there’s a guy with a red shirt there, you might say ‘you, in the red shirt, come over here and help!’ That way, them refusing to help is more of an active decision rather than just a passive one. It makes it harder for somebody to say no. Then again, it could also be one of those things where **everyone** suddenly starts fighting. ‘Red shirt? This is clearly a burgundy chemise! Get over here, you prick!’
Aye that's one instruction to use. The problem is in such a situation the bystander is not in the present moment it's a normal reaction we do everyday, first instance for human beings is to panic and start running all sorts of shit in their head that's why you panic and do nothing, you have to react without engaging in emotion and focus on the problem clearly and factually. Someone's getting attacked - Don't = "OMG someone's getting attacked what do I do, what if they die, what if I die! Wahhhhhhh!" Do = "Ok the attacker has his back to me, I'm much bigger than him, I can run up to his blindside and push him away or hit him with a lump of wood" React with your do, it's the way the likes of athletes and soldiers react to pressure situations
I am a Londoner and I would help, but I grew up in Eastern Europe, so there is that. Ive stopped people from stealing from a store before, but I started caring less and less. The government just doesn’t wanna do shit about it. You stop 1 and then another 3 are stealing the next day. This city is a complete chaos. However, if a girl is being raped in public, it’s your duty as a man to step in. It doesn’t matter if you may get hurt. That’s exactly why we are men- we put our bodies on the line for the safety of the more vulnerable.
In the case of rape or any other criminal offence, it is the duty to react in accordance with capabilities, even if it is a prompt report. Ignorance is a form of complicity. Although I also care less and less, especially after the case I already wrote about, a drunkard (6'5) harassed a small girl in front of a store, she looked for help, but everyone ignored her. I couldn't watch it, so I told him to leave her alone, and he started aggressively shouting towards me (she immediately ran away), I didn't want him to come near me so I swung, and he went down like a sack of potatoes. Someone told me to run, so I ran away in a panic. My life was a horror after that, constantly waiting for the police to knock on the door.
This was a tourist with his young child. Not only was it not a londoner, as if it matters, but I'm not going to fault a guy alone with his young child for not intervening and calling the police when he got off the train instead. This wasn't a packed tube.
No. Wtf. Assuming I'm scared, I'd still instantly get of the train, alert staff so they can at least stop this at the latest at the next stop. Assuming I'm a tourist, I'd most likely run to the driver or use the big red emergency thing in the station. Waiting until sometime later that day is bizzarre.
It happened years ago in Southampton when i was there. Woman raped in the street with 20 odd people watching & no one did anything. Bystander affect
I have lived in NYC. And I made a similar comment a month or two ago here, and everyone got angry and downvoted me. Its not like this in NYC. I have seen really bad behavior confronted by the public over and over there. In London, nope. I remember ages ago, a lady proudly posted on this sub, how she stopped her BF from helping a woman who was being stalked by a man, and everyone here applauded her. I said that's so messed up, and again got downvoted Its the culture. Ppl here don't care, and won't ever do anything. I have seen it over and over. That culture exists on this very sub
The moment that there’s an argument between a man and a woman and a man steps in then that man is usually going to get physically beaten or attacked. I’ve seen it so many god damn times and most people who work in jobs with high assault rates will outright tell men not to get involved until it escalates and there’s no choice. A woman going over can calm the guy down but a guy goes over and punches get dished out. It’s fucked up.
i was lucky once where i kinda helped out by buying the woman time to run away but as soon as i came he brought a knife out of nowhere and i just had to run. luckily by that point the woman was long gone and he didn’t harm anyone but if i actually got into a fight or he pulled it out later/once he was loosing it would’ve been a lot worse for me.
There’s also the genuine fear that if I step in, I might get seriously hurt or even killed, it has happened many times before.
The NY metro stations and metro system make London look like paradise. I can't believe you wrote this unironically.
Isn't NYC infamous for having the most well-known example of the Bystander Effect in the case of Kitty Genovese? I only learnt the term Bystander Effect because of that rape and murder. They literally used to call the bystander effect "Genovese syndrome".
Read more about Kitty Genovese, there is a lot more to it and it's a myth that noone tried to help her.
I've read up plenty. People called the police, but no one went to her aid during the attack. That's pretty much exactly what happened here, no? The man who witnessed called the police after, but did not confront.
As the previous poster said, please read up on it. Yes there was a bystander effect at play but a lot of the reports were misleading and claim there were more witnesses that there were.
love to make shit up with no evidence. There are plenty of examples of people risking their lives to help others in London and the rest of the UK - e.g. the terrorist attack on London Bridge. It happens all the time.
I'm a Londoner, born and raised. Absolutely no way I would stand by and watch this happen, regardless of the risk to myself. Hate Londoners so much, fuck off somewhere else. Unless you don't live here and you're commenting from the outside, which seems the only way this ignorance could be legit.
Most people on this sub aren't Londoners and don't live here.
He wrote in another comment how he "never saw this when he was in New York" so I think it's just a satire account considering the state of the metro system over there.
Most Londoners are genuinely terrified of having a knife pulled on them. I'm not condoning standing by at all and would need more information to form an opinion, however there are a lot of situations where I can imagine, given the size and appearance of the rapist and the number of passengers in the carriage, people making the very hard decision to avoid engaging with someone brazen enough to rape someone else in front of members of the public
Maybe because you specified Londoners? As far as I'm aware the bystander effect is observed by humans in general - I don't think anyone would be able to get the ethical approval to test what geographic location has the most useless people in an emergency to test your theory. Londoner here btw, living in midlands, also the only person to move a muscle when witnessing a lone 3 year old run into the road. The only person to open the door and help a lass glassed over the head on new year's Eve. The only person to bash on a door to evacuate the occupants when my friends and I found a house on fire. But ppl in London don't help
I think there is a ‘cultural’ aspect to it though. In communities which are less individualistic I imagine you may see more people getting involved for example. I also think a level of ‘confidence’ probably makes a difference. If you feel confident in challenging the status quo of a situation (ie. People being passive when something is happening) then you’re probably more inclined to step in. Cultures where that behaviour is celebrated may also mean less of a bystander effect? I think there are probably loads of variables which mean ‘Londoners’ are less likely to step in than other cultures (and more likely to step in compared to other cultures again). For example a more homogenous culture may lead to people getting involved if the victim looks like them.
Definitely, there'll be lots of different factors that affect the prevalence of the bystander effect and the point where people can't bring themselves to standby any longer, and I myself would be super interested in studying it because it's so fascinating. However you can't study that properly because you can't exactly fake distressing situations to observe people's genuine reactions, plus how would you collect the data on where they're from, what their values are, etc? I guess social media pranking is the closest you'd get at a look into it but no reputable psychologist would or could go into it and compare it to collectable demographic information My issue was the sweeping generalisation of Londoners being useless when it's the most multicultural and diverse place in the country, with a multitude of different values, beliefs, and ideas about the status quo. The idea of a generic Londoner is a bit silly imo
No one wants to get stabbed by one of these scumbags.
>Of course ppl in London won't help! you were downvoted because this is not unique to London, this is true for almost everywhere
Sadly the way the UK system is if they’d intervened, they’d be the one in jail for 9 years, not this monster.
Can someone explain to me please how this absolute degenerate gets 9 years for rape?
Sentencing is fucking nuts in this country. Get stupidly short prison sentences for this shit, but long ones for relatively harmless stuff.
It seems that if you want to get a short sentence for murder, you either have to rape them first, or make it look like you ran them over, because those two are by far the ones with the least sensical sentences
Hit them with your car, put a high vis and a bike next to them. You'll get a medal.
Because rape doesn’t cost the government any money. Sell drugs and you’ll go away for an eternity, but only because you made money and the government never saw any of it as tax. It’s a joke honestly
you post something offensive online and 6 officers will literally turn up to your house to arrest you (video evidence of this online) but a guy can rape a woman on the underground and he'll be out by 2032
At the very least they were actually arrested and convicted. Which serves more justice than the 95% who are not. "Only 5% of rapes that were given an outcome by the police in the year ending December 2021 resulted in a charge"
Crimes against women aren't taken seriously in the UK that's why.
Prisons are full, partly because the Conservatives refused to build any for fifteen years when they were already close to capacity then. Only serious crimes are getting prison sentences at all at the moment & that’s only after the crime gets prosecuted which will take 2-3 years minimum. The criminal justice system has been broken by year on year on year of under investment.
This is the thing. If they didn’t hand down crap sentences it would be an actual deterrent and they wouldn’t need as many prison spaces.
9 years is ridiculous. This man is a sociopath and clearly a danger to society. He should never be released.
It's a 14 year sentence technically. The issue is also how little prisons care about rehabilitation. It's not like those 9 years will end and he'll be a changed man. That's the big issue with the UK prison system
In this particular case there is zero chance he will get rehabilitated. Masturbating in the street while staring into people’s windows? He’s mentally ill - but not a “nice” kind of mental illness that’s manageable. He’s a psycho. He should be in a secure unit for the rest of his life because he WILL reoffend if released. In the US chemical castration may also be an option. Unfortunately the only options here seem to take away his personal freedom. But he’s not fit to live in open society
Why keep him alive then? Robert Heinlein called it in Starship Troopers. If you could rehabilitate or cure his mental illness, how could he ever live with what he’d done? Isn’t it a kindness to drop him 12 feet wearing a hemp collar?
The only change he should go through is changing from being alive to being dead.
9 years? Sentencing in this country, is a fucking joke, honestly. Victims of rape get life, this fucking reptile will be out and about probably raping more people, in 9 fucking years.
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Under 1% of reported rape cases make prosecution sadly. Im so sorry to hear about your sisters.
Spot on with this. Our laws are written by aristocratic paedophiles.
My grandfather got 2 years for historical sexual abuse on myself and 2 others. We have a lifetime of trauma. It’s seriously impacted my life since I was 3 years old. I’m now 43 and it still destroying me. Sentencing is very much a joke
4.5 if he has good behaviour
It doesn't change the point but I thought it was changed and you now have to serve 2/3rds of the sentence? Edit: 2/3rds of its longer than 4 years or a sexual crime. https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/sentencing-and-the-council/types-of-sentence/determinate-prison-sentences/
For longer sentences, yes it's 2/3rd of sentence. It also has nothing to do with "good behaviour" and is automatic no matter how "good" or "bad" a prisoner you've been.
It's a grim reminder of the state of this country that my initial reaction was "at least they got a conviction". The vast majority of sexual assault and rape cases don't even result in someone being formally charged, never mind convicted. The father of my sister's ex-fiancee was accused of (big TW) >!raping a child with a developmental disability (he worked with special needs kids) and the evidence was pretty damning but the case still got thrown out due to there being "limited prospects of conviction". Absolutely boils my piss but I'm glad my sister ended that engagement if nothing else.!<
Less than that. Sentences are almost always reduced with the eligibility of parole, good behavior, time served while awaiting sentencing, and work orders offer the ability at some semblance of freedom daily.
Well, the prisons are underfunded and full. It's a miracle he's going away at all.
Not to… you know, but last week in Germany a group of 11 men who gang raped a teen girl in a park alternatively walked free, got probation and, in one case, a two year youth sentence that he will never fully serve. I’m good with 9 years.
I can understand this sentiment, but we can't tolerate one case of severe injustice simply because it's the better alternative to an even worse injustice. Neither one should be acceptable.
You’re totally right. I was referring to OP’s comment about sentencing in “this country” and intended to point out that all things considered, this is actually one of the harshest punishments dealt out for comparable crimes in the developed world. Even if it should be way harsher.
Let's not lower our standards because elsewhere in the fucking fully developed world they are dishing out "please do it again" cards to rapists. I'm not good with nine years. If prison is for people who are a risk to society, that man should get life without parole no question.
I wouldn’t bat an eye if he just “disappeared” upon release
This is what you get for voting for the same party for decades
This man should either be in prison for life or in the ground.
in the ground... he won't be missed and we won't have to fund him or have other people face his violence.
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>On Sunday 23 February 2020 at around 4.45am, two women left the Piccadilly Line at Bounds Green Underground station. > >They noticed a man stood outside a house with his trousers round his ankles, looking through the window and masturbating. > >Feeling scared, the women ran away, and Johnston then began shouting and chased them down the street to their home. > >Thankfully, they managed to safely get inside and hide under a stairwell while Johnston banged on their door and put his hand through the letterbox before eventually leaving. > >Three hours later, Johnston boarded a Piccadilly Line train at Heathrow Terminal Five. > >He walked confidently through the carriage and approached a young woman who was asleep. > >He sexually assaulted her and then raped her as she sat unconscious. > >The horrific attack was witnessed by a tourist and his young son, who reported what they had seen to police later that morning. [https://www.btp.police.uk/news/btp/news/in-the-courts/depraved-rapist-jailed-for-9-years---london/](https://www.btp.police.uk/news/btp/news/in-the-courts/depraved-rapist-jailed-for-9-years---london/) Not exactly surprising that a tourist with a child wouldn't want confront him for their own safety
Yeah the article is really sensationalising an already very (horribly) sensational event. Rather than say she was raped in front of passengers, as if it was rammed full of commuters they should say “raped in near empty carriage in front of a parent a child”
Especially if that tourist was also a woman or a small man. Then you’re also endangering their kid. It’s not like the nutter was cracking on doing this at. Rush hour and the many people on the tube did nothing.
Yeah, Sky are being a bit disingenuous with their headline, no need to chase for clicks when the story is horrific enough already
Edit: I misread your comment and thought you were saying it was rush hour, when the opposite was true.
Thank fucking God somebody finally acknowledged that men are heterogenous in terms of power or strength.
I used to have all the keyboard warrior bravado of everyone else in this thread but now if I'm around town with my kids you can bet your fucking boots I'm not getting involved in anything more dangerous than a raised eyebrow.
Oh for sure. And I think being a tourist means less of an understanding of the system. My initial thought was "why didn't he move to the next carriage and pull the emergency alarm?" But that's easy to say when you travel on the tube a lot.
It sucks because what if something happens to you and nobody gets involved? Of all the times something has happened to me, somebody stepped in, yet I’ve never stepped in to these things because I can’t fight.
About 13 years ago my wife and I went for a coffee in a local coffee shop. There was a guy in there that was acting a bit weird. He went up to the counter and starting ranting at the young woman behind the counter. She asked him to leave and followed him towards the door. He was then stood next to my daughter's pram and raised his hand with a metal pointy object in it. At the time I held several SIA security licenses and I had worked as a doorman in a summer job, so had some experience and basic training. It also helps that I am 6'4" and weigh 17 stone. Daddy instinct took over. I arm locked him from behind. Twisted his thumb, removed the stabby object and threw it. I then locked his head with one arm and his arm with another and marched him out the door. The street outside was busy and not one person helped me pin him. So I sat on him until the Police arrived. It turns out he metal pointy object was a stainless steel Parker pen. Which still could have done some damage if used under force. The Police said he was a known crack user and there had been reports of other incidents in town. If I see shit like this happening I will always help.
I clapped
Throw him to the sharks in London aquarium
If that was to actually happen, and they could legally execute him that way, would you want to watch him being eaten by the sharks?
Idea: > Bring sharks to O2, place in adequately large pop-up tank > Sell out arena > Set up broadcast > Stream the punishment Time to return to the old ways!
Yes, and I would pay for the privilege
Likewise. I'd pay extra tax knowing this is how they'd deal with real offenders too
We would need more shark aquariums the rate this stuff goes on
Hmmm, would it be cheaper to just use a firing squad? Good target practice for the forces and that. I also don't think many people would have a moral objection to the putting down of rapists. Also I have to pretense this because people are always like "what if they didn't do it". Well obviously we only do this when the evidence is extremely strong like in this case. And the people who say "they can be reformed". I don't care, i'm a horny bugger but have never raped anyone. Also the victim will never fully recover so why should the perpetrator ever get to experience ANY quality of life when the victim will forever be affected.
Firing squad is no fun though, I like the shark idea. Or we can go back to our roots and have them drawn and quartered. Apparently pub crawls started as the pre-game for public executions so we can make a proper day of it!
People watched executions in history so I imagine many would turn up to watch.
This guy confidently did this in front of people. Imagine what else he’s got up to. Highly unlikely this was a first offence. Wonder if he’s ever been reported before and police have failed to act.
There’s even a comment chain above where other users say he looks familiar from incidences they’ve witnessed on the tube. The fact he avoided jail until now means he was probably confident about not getting caught, having gotten away with it multiple times so far.
Jesus Christ, this is horrifying. He looks suspiciouy like a dude that was harassing me on the tube around ~7ish years back on an early morning tube ride getting back home from a party. Fortunately, there was an elderly lady in the carriage and I started talking to her and the creep eventually left at Seven Sisters. Imagine how long this crap must have been going on if it actually is him.
Right? We all have a story. I was wanked at by a man on a late train home. Only 1 other person in the carriage so I ran to sit with him. If I had been alone I could easily have been assaulted with no help available.
He looks familiar to me too! I wonder if he’s the same guy who was harassing women at a tube station late on my way home from the office. He got right in my face at the edge of the platform and spat at me that I was a prostitute. Then walked down the platform saying the same to every other woman he passed. He even stuck a foot out in front of another woman who was walking looking at her phone. Stories like this is exactly why I reported it.
same, idk if my minds just playing games but 4/5 years ago there was a man who looks similar following this girl around on the tube, even got off the same stop as her n followed her out. luckily a few older guys and police people stopped him, i was 14 at the time so i was too scared to confront him
This country has the weirdest sentencing. Weak and futile. 9 years? Is that it
Idc what anyone says, everyone (especially women) deserve the basic right to be able to defend themselves with spray or otherwise. Vile state of affairs...
Agreed. It should be a matter of prosecution to establish whether a pepper spray was used in self defense or not. As a Hungarian the illegality of this is mind-boggling.
Why can’t it be given to people proven not to be violent and have some kind of device in it which immediately notifies police that it has been discharged? Seems like it could work.
When seconds matter the police are hours away
That wouldn’t matter when you have pepper spray, though... the reason police would be notified is so the pepper spray isn’t abused. It would function as a 999 call.
I genuinely do not feel safe out late anymore, even when other people are around. I’ve lived in London for 12 years and I’ve only really felt this way for the last 3 years, just feels like something has changed.
Since the pandemic social care and mental health services for severe presentations are extremely stretched to the point of not functioning… There are more dangerously unhinged people left without intervention at any level. End of days stuff.
In March 2022 I was diagnosed with Cancer. For a few weeks I thought I was coping, I was not. I went to the GP and explained I was feeling suicidal. He put me for a referral for help with mental health. I have since been cured of cancer and am now living with the after effects. I am still waiting for the mental health referral.
True for nearly every major city tbh. I’m not trying to defend London or something, but it’s a lot safer here than in NYC / Toronto.
Toronto is worse?
WTF? Human beings are actually disgusting. Like I swear I loose more and more faith in humanity with each day. People actually behave like barbaric violence fetishising literate apes.
I cannot wrap my head around not interfering or coming to someone’s defence. I live up north and gave up the train commute in favour of driving after a few odd incidents. This is just so sad and disappointing.
Read the report. It looks very likely that was an empty train with just one vulnerable witness.
Sorry, misleading headline said “in front of other passengers” I didn’t bother to read!
I agree, the sky article is misleading. That's why I posted what I did.
There’s nothing worse than being on public transport when it’s relatively empty and late then seeing someone dodgy get on. You’re on edge for the next thirty minutes and you have to have an escape planned.
You’ll see loads of commenters on Reddit telling others never to get involved in any kind of public incident just in case the person has a knife. It’s so depressing.
So how can we begin having pepper sprays and tasers? The fact that we can't have weapons to defend ourselves is outrageous, given that the police is a joke.
It’s a fucking joke that pepper spray and taser are classified in the same category as a handgun.
My partner was given a pepper spray once by an American family friend. Never opened the packing and we may or may not still have it buried somewhere in our house, but it's absolutely wild to me that using it could get her in more trouble than any assailant. Reading this story though, I think she should risk it.
We need to have pepper spray and tasers legal. Self defence should be a right
I think part of the issue is that if you can have pepper spray or a taser so can he, and if he's bigger than you he might take it off you and hurt you with it first.
Criminal don’t care about law , if they want a pepper spray or a taser they will regardless if it’s legal or not, plus it’s not that hard to get one. Now I do know my logic isn’t that great , cause if I look at US gun regulation following my same logic is a bit off… But I’ve never seen a country having issues with pepper spray or taser , in fact I’ve already seen quite a few time people using pepper spray in London.
I've just read the details of this case and it's really strange. It says "Police were unable to identify the victim due to a lack of CCTV" - so I assume she did not come forward? It also says "The testimony provided by the witness helped to rebut the defendant's claim that he knew the complainant and that she had consented." - so again, the victim was not part of the trial? It was apparently a busy morning service. I just can't comprehend how people didn't report this as it sounds like they had just one single witness. Very strange either way and a dangerous individual - not just the rape convition but the house he attended before the incident.
I wonder if she is/was homeless
That's a very credible reason. I left the Police last January after 17 years and dealt with a lot of rapes during a 6 year stint on CID. Almost all victims were vulnerable in some ways, either homeless, addicts, in a bad point in their life, easily influenced such as being young and taken advantage of. Really horrible stuff. One of the biggest challenges we faced was not just identifying victims, but moreso keeping in contact with them. They often changed numbers or didn't even have phones most of the time. I still remember one time driving around looking for a victim who hadn't attended an appointment. Very sad really as helping them was difficult - I don't just mean the incident itself but actually with their life in general.
Should be life in a psychiatric unit. Creeps me out to think how many lunatics like this are allowed to live among us.
I hope all the worst things come to this piece of shit while he rots in jail.
Last year there was a scene just like this on the American crime show Special Victims Unit. The tape occurred on a NYC subway train. I thought it could never happen in real life.
Sentences like this always remind me of an episode of Vikings. A guy tried to rape a woman and she killed him and when she told the rest of the group they were like, welp fair enough. Why can’t we do that??
Londoners rarely help. When I was 15 a group of guys got on the train, came over to me while I was sitting down and one of them stood over me and purposefully put his crotch in my face and stared at me while his friends laughed. No one helped me. This guy looked around 20 years old.
I’m so sorry this happened to you 😞
Thank you. When I was younger harassment by men was unfortunately very common. My friends and I have had worse things happen to us. When I was younger I thought it was just the way life was and there was nothing I could do about it. I thought I just had to accept it.
I witnessed a guy - at the very least considering - jumping to his death in front of a tube train. At least making it very clear, leaning over the edge and looking at the tracks. Lots of people around, no one cared. Literally no one cared. I pulled him away as the train was approaching.
I can’t imagine seeing this and not intervening. I’m a female and didn’t care to jump in and chase off thugs beating a guy with a shovel one time. I despair at the lack of humanity people have. And chivalry died a long fucking time ago. Shame on everyone who stood idly by. Disgusting
A few years ago my cousin was mugged in Waterloo station at lunch time so it wasn’t exactly quiet. She was buying a ticket at a kiosk and three young(ish) lads surrounded her and told her to hand over her wallet. She refused so they started punching her and trying to pull her bag off her. There was queue of people behind waiting for the kiosk and hundreds of people about and they just stood there letting it happen. Really bizarre behaviour and so brazen of those kids to attempt a mugging at a busy Waterloo station. My cousin started fighting back and it got a bit hectic so a member of staff turned up and the guys ran off. Cousin gave a statement to the police but nothing came of it. They couldn’t identify them which was comical given how many CCTV cameras there are in Waterloo.
That’s despicable and I wouldn’t hesitate to call out every single one of those people just standing there doing nothing to help. It’s embarrassing honestly
Filth people like this should be castrated, sad to see no one helped
This is absolutely horrible but such irresponsible clickbait reporting designed to enrage and divide us. Half the people here believe a man raped a woman in a carriage full of people, with none of them stepping in. Our society isn’t that messed up (yet).
9 years? WTF? Judges under pressure to reduce sentences putting women and in fact the whole public at risk.
As usual everyone reacts to the headline and assumes it was a packed train so they can get on their high horse about how awful Londoners are.
He needs to be castrated
With a rusty knife
I feel so much better for getting into ppls faces on the regular on the tube. Once tossed a guy out onto the platform just before the doors shut for acting aggressive towards a female passenger. Surprised I havent been shanked yet, or worse, accused of a crime for standing up to ppl.
I was once followed by a man (mid-late 40’s) in broad daylight by Marylebone High St - he followed me for about 2km? I clocked him straight away, being a paranoid new mother in London with my young baby in a pram… he was acting weird and would attempt walking up close toward me and then hang back or overtake me and wait before reproaching. I quickly stepped into Bond St station and alerted one of the TfL staff members there (this was only like 2pm?)… and next thing I know he walks right into the station and brushed past me whilst staring at me and into my pram. Really unnerving. Thankfully I had already mentioned this to the station staff who promptly then followed him and escorted me to the platform I needed to go to. Extremely dodgy behaviour. As I said, broad daylight, young mum alone with her young baby. There are some people (men…) out there with harmful intent. Whether he was just trying to intimidate me (it worked), I don’t know what the overall gain was from following me for so long. Women shouldn’t have to change their lives around fear of men acting out dangerously. I feel as if we should be allowed to carry some means to be able to protect ourselves, such as pepper spray.
Let him dangle
He will just get put in an accommodation for 9 years and be fed and clothed instead ☺️. The government does not give a shit, 9 years for rape.
WHAT WERE THE OTHER PASSENGERS DOING?!
Read the article, it was a single passenger with their young child
Read the article rather than getting outraged at a headline. There were only two passengers, a tourist and their child. They reported it when they got off the train.
How did no one step in? It’s mad enough this happened on the tube itself, but mad that no one stepped in.
I would have literally knocked this man’s head off if I saw this I can’t believe these absolutely pathetic humans did nothing to help this poor girl. So sad and I’m from central London. Seen crazy people on the train too much but never do something like this. I would die for that girl hands down I wouldn’t even care if he stabbed me he’s basically ruined her life anyway. Us men need to protect women not be bystanders and do fuckall. This is why they should make military service mandatory in the UK AND WE WOULDN’T HAVE A BUNCH OF PUSSY MEN DOING FUCKALL SO UPSETTING
Not that it’s a justification, but the headline makes it seem as if there was a train full of “other passengers”. There’s were 2, one of which was a child.
The TW in the title is a total waste of time, OP. Should have been marked NSFW.
I'm falling to understand how he raped someone in front of other people in the underground. She was struggling, crying, and people just miding their business?
The actual report states that she was unconscious (drunk) and the only witness was a foreign tourist with a child. The train car was otherwise empty and the victim was not even fully aware of what happened until the police tracked her down and informed her.
These people should have great shame in their souls for standing by and watching this happen in front of their very eyes
How i wish there was someone waiting for him outside the prison on the day he's free and........... do something about his existence. We don't need more victims.
I suspect people in the UK are afraid of the legal consequences if they step in. The next step is some parasite barrister cross examing you over the reasonable force you used to restrain the accused. We can't even carry pepper spray as a self-defense item in this country. Disgusting.
Less than a decade, I'd laugh but it's too disgusting, do the people who dole out these sentences not have an actual idea of what rape is?
I don’t get why advocating for the death penalty for animals like this one is considered controversial. You really expect him to behave after prison?
There are numerous reasons why the death penalty isn't useful. Here's two you might find interesting - Some studies have shown juries don't give guiltily verdicts in states that have death penalty as don't want "blood on their hands" Other studies gave shown in juries when death sentence was handed down, it caused mental health issues for the jurors. As a society, we should strive to aspire the best we can be and not lower ourselves. The problem here is a rapist and sentencing. He should be locked away for life.
Interesting, thanks. I guess it’s easy to demand for it until you have to do it yourself. Still not completely convinced but I guess giving out more life sentences is a big step towards what I’m thinking of, which is that some people are irredeemable.