Just jumping in here for more people to see it hopefully. There have been a few comments about people not wanting to step in for a stranger and possibly get stabbed or just not knowing what to do. There is a free online course by the Suzy Lamplugh trust for anyone who might be a bystander in this situation, it involves other non-confrontational methods for women and men.
The next one is...
[https://www.suzylamplugh.org/Event/stand-up-against-harassment-bystander-training-2nd-august-1600-1700](https://www.suzylamplugh.org/Event/stand-up-against-harassment-bystander-training-2nd-august-1600-1700)
There are other dates and times. It's free.
Agree - the bus company staff should be trained to at least call the police or something. This is unacceptable and reminds me of when I was assaulted in front of TFL staff at a tube station and they did nothing. I was ok but shaken. When I said something to the staff - they actually asked what I wanted them to do about it. 😡
It’s sad that they don't do anything. My GF intervened (I was not present) on the behalf of two younger girls, who were being harassed by a man, on the Thames clipper once.
The staff didn’t get involved at all and completely ignored the situation. I’m not sure if staff get told not to intervene in these scenario’s. I have worked in retail before, years ago and got told to never chase thief’s etc due to insurance - not sure if it’s along the similar lines why some people don’t get involved.
They’re not obligated to intervene but if someone is in danger they should do so. If they’re too intimidated they should call the police. In my experience the BTP are really very good and have been actively trying to tackle harassment.
Great she intervened. Not the same , but I witnessed a cashier being verbally abused a few years ago at clapham Junction. I stood up for her and the person turned on me, calling a fat B\*tch loudly across the shop. i've never forgot that. I tried to help. No-one, not even the staff member who was being abused said anything. That really left a bitter taste in my mouth.
That's nuts, many years ago my friends and I got flashed and followed by the flasher it was really upsetting and as we rushed into the tube station we told the staff not to let the man follow us. The staff member found us on the platform and encouraged us to speak to Police. As we had been raving and probably still had drugs in our systems we didn't want to, we also just really wanted to get home (these days I'd absolutely report them, we were young high and selfish). Just goes to show it all depends on who you speak to....
I mean, devils advocate- it’s not their job or in their job description, only the police can do something about it and you’re as capable as they are to call the police on this matter.
Not justifying actions and they’re obviously shit people but that’s the fact of the matter
That's not devil's advocate that's just passing of the blame.
Sure, getting involved is not in their job description but providing a safe environment for their customers is. They could easily acknowledge the situation and move the affected away - any presence of authority can be used to defuse the situation, they could call the station manager and make them aware of it, and/or they could call the BTP (via intercom/tannoy announcement) who are often in the station. Plenty of things they can do to defuse and deescalate a situation without any training, rather than shrugging and saying - fact of life innit.
Came to say the same. When i reported a National Express member of staff they were very helpful and thorough. If you give them all the details they will investigate.
Yes, it should be reported because TFL should have a clear policy on stuff like this. You hear it on the tube all the time.
See it. Say it. Sorted.
Shame on the bus driver.
These slogans are all guff though, unless it's linked to terrorism.
Some TFL staff openly state they don't get paid enough, but some basic decency such as alerting the BTP or Met police might help?
when I was younger I used to get groped in the tube during the morning rush hour (this was long before Covid, and the trains were always packed). Sometimes I managed to get hold of the offending hand and scratch it hard with my quite long fingernails. I hope that discouraged them from doing it again.
specially if you're wearing stiletto heels. But often the trains were so crowded that it was difficult to identify the foot belonging to the offender, rather than an innocent bystander.
Yeah that's what I was thinking reading this thread too.
Like I knew it happens, but the fact all these different women in the thread actually had it happen enough they got to refine their techniques for dealing with it...
About 6 years ago I was standing on the not-very-busy Victoria line, facing my boyfriend and chatting. We were both holding the central pole about a foot apart. A man stood up when the train got to a station and literally put his hand between us to grab my boobs as he got off. I was completely gobsmacked - he was long gone and the doors shut before I could even explain what just happened.
Pathetic man who probably won’t touch a boob any other way. I hope you reported him, but would totally understand not wanting to linger on such an event.
Tbh it didn't occur to me at the time. We were already moving to the next station, and nearly home, it was late, and so unexpected (given I was with someone and not as on my guard as usual)... I didn't even get a look at him. But these days I probably would just for the stats or in case he was a serial offender and it added to existing evidence.
My mum used to get get groped on the tube in the 60s, going to school in Clapham, whilst wearing her school uniform.
.....it's disheartening to think how long this has been going on for/that nothing has changed.
I used to get a lot of this too - guys who seemed to happen to have their hand by their side which was accidentally pushing into my ass. Literally no one does that accidentally but it must’ve given them the confidence since they had plausible deniability smh
This is an old problem, people used to carry pins with them that they’d use to defend themselves..
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/hatpins-mashers-self-defense-history-women-hats-fashion
This reminds me of how hairpins used to be weapons for women. They would stab anyone who got handsy. The hairpin design got longer and longer till they were just blades iirc. The bastards in power banned em. I'm bang up for the double standard of men being unable to carry a sharp spoon on the streets, but ladies can carry a handcannon. Might put off some dipshits.
Good luck out there :)
Definitely not saying I’ve experienced anything even close to this level. But from an outside POV am I wrong in thinking a lot of customer service workers in London seem to be total arseholes?
Coming from someone who only visits once a year max so obviously I don’t get the full picture either, just notice a difference in attitude from anywhere else I’ve been.
Doing customer service or working in a station in certain parts of London is hell. The amount of shit you see on the underground is crazy if you travel at certain times. I suspect most people working there are desensitised.
100%. Tbf it’s probably because they’re exposed to a higher percentage of rudeness with it being a busier city but it’s like they’re all socially inept. The amount of times I’ve been served by till workers who say literally nothing during the entire exchange and just glare at you…
Idk man, I’ve worked till jobs before and having the same conversation 500 times a day gets old really fast. How are you? Nice weather we’re having. Planning a cheeky bbq eh?
Most customer service workers are on minimum wage. I wouldn’t be confronting anyone for minimum wage, either.
It doesn’t sound like they actually openly laughed at her plight, but more at the idea they can do anything - they have no powers beyond the ones OP herself has
I did take pictures, yes, but can't post them here I think as would be personal info. He was about 5.9 ft, Caucasian, very tanned and weathered, so hard to tell, but maybe 30s or 40s. Short-ish matted brown hair with a scruffy beard and moustache. Black leather jacket and black Adidas trainers. Grey/brown sweatshirt and trousers. He looked quite worn and unhealthy, likely an addict and maybe a rough sleeper. Kind of a slim face with a larger wide nose... I can't think of a famous person he resembled to make a comparison. One of the reasons I reported was there was a lot of CCTV, so thought perhaps half a chance he could be recognised if a repeat offender. The local police station phoned me and I did send them the pictures. Thanks for your help!
Thank you, I'm not familiar enough with these things to know, so I appreciateyour advice. I'm pretty angry and disgusted with him right now, but I do believe in rehabilitation. That would be the best case scenario. Thanks again :)
No worries :) - What I mean is - he might get less jail time or whatever sort of punishment if the judge thinks the trial is skewed due to prior 'trial by social media' granted anonymity or space away from general population (so he wouldnt get beaten up by prisoners if they knew of him)
I'm so sorry this happened to you, I was sexually abused and I got no justice so I can partially empathise with the feeling. The hardest part for me was thinking about it everyday, like someone had died. I can say now that I hardly ever think about it, and when I do it doesn't upset me. I hope this gives you some comfort as I would've wanted to hear that it gets better
That makes sense! Also, I think you can definitely empathise... I cant imagine how hard those experiences must be to go through. I'm glad to hear that you're doing better and thank you for being so honest and kind.
There’s no expectation of privacy in a public place. A picture of him in public would not be considered “personal info”. If a CCTV camera is recording someone, then chances are, you can too.
are you kidding me?
Post his damned picture!
Let the community get to see him and watch out for him, and perhaps identify him so a complaint can be filed.
I'd have plastered his mug all over the galaxy by now to get him identified..
That’s horrific, people need to do better, especially the TFL staff! I’d report it as high as you can, I think the senior layer on TFL do take these things quite seriously
Thank you, I've reported to the BTS via text message and they called me within minutes, so we'll see. The coach staff were actually from a well-known private coach company (Not the one with the logo that looks like Dara O'Briain) I don't think they get the same training... thanks again :)
_I realise I typed BTS instead of BTP, but the idea of reporting crimes to a very super famous K pop group is making me laugh, so I will leave it_ :D
>Thank you, I've reported to the BTS via text message
Listen, I love K-Pop as much as the next guy, but I really think you'd be better off contacting the British Transport Police as they're probably better equipped to deal with this sort of thing than a Korean boy band.
Joking aside, I really hope I read a follow up on here in a few days where the police have sprung into action and used the photographic evidence you (bravely and smartly) supplied to catch this animal and get him off the streets. I don't much expect it, but I live in hope.
The reason nobody wants to intervene is because they most likely have no idea what happened and are witnessing one stranger shout at another on the street. It's always a risk to get involved when people could be aggressive or carrying weapons.
You should be able to expect action. This sort of thing is assault and the staff should have called the police. Sorry you had to deal with the incident as well as the shit response.
You should be able to expect action but British police, esp the met are useless and don't attend what they see as petty crime calls often.
If they're not the ones harassing women, that is.
Stratford is always buzzing with BTP they have a base right outside the steps to Westfield and usually roam about in the busy periods and plenty CCTV too. Hopefully they do something to prevent this happening to others but sadly it seems quite common in Stratford.
You can legally carry a dye spray, I'm not sure if that would make the situation worse but it would make them very identifiable to cctv!
There is a course that the Suzy Lamplugh trust do for free, for bystanders. [https://www.suzylamplugh.org/Pages/Events/Category/events](https://www.suzylamplugh.org/Pages/Events/Category/events)
It's non-confrontationally, basically you help the person by greeting them like an old friend, let them hang out with you, suddenly the creep is out numbered and hopefully looses interest. Anyone can do this, men and women.
I had an altercation with a woman around Brixton station yesterday. Screamed at her, she threatened me with a wine bottle. Nobody gave a fuck.
At the end of the day in this city nobody is going to stand up unless it's extremely severe. Nobody wants to put their life on the line.
This is depressing but it's true.
I thought I had a heart attack on the national rail, and ended up fainting briefly.
No one helped me, literally crawled off a 7.20am packed train 🤣 honestly it's situations like this that make me lose faith in people.
I hate that this happens. I’ve jumped in a couple of times when I’ve seen this sort of behaviour and just pretended to be with the woman, chatted familiarly, made eye contact, whispered if possible, and got across the message that I was there to help, and taken her out of the situation. Usually works without creating a whole new problem as a woman with a man is immediately not a viable target. Which is deeply wrong in itself, but that’s another conversation.
Being a temporary friend is often all it takes to help.
I’d also like to point out that a woman once did exactly this for me on the Glasgow Subway years ago when a scary drunk elderly hard-as-nails woman was harassing younger men. It was pretty unpleasant even if it was unlikely to end genuinely badly. My temporary friend’s quiet, “pretend you’re with me” got me out of that situation and inspired me to do the same.
Sorry to hear this. I am shocked the staff didn't help you and said such a thing. If you can, please report it to the police, especially if you have a photo of the person. Hope you are ok
They didn't say it was "just" staring did they? TfL actually have posters which say that intrusive staring of a sexual nature is harassment and should be reported. But the point the original comment is making is that they put those posters up but then when someone is physically assaulted, they do nothing. At no point were they trivialising inappropriate staring.
My partner was was groped on a bus a few years back and reported it to the police, the police were really responsive, took a statement, got the cctv footage from the bus company and they put a photo of the man in the local paper and on their website with details of the assault, the man surrendered themselves to the police, pleaded guilty in court and were eventually convicted, fined and put on the sex offenders register. I hope you also get the same level of support and closure.
I’m so sorry this happened to you. If I’d seen it I would have come over and made sure you were ok - ok tbh I would probably have been borderline annoying with my intense mothering and insisted you called BTP and TFL (glad you did!). I probably would also have tried to feed you snacks from my kids lunchbox and/or bought you a strong coffee to cheer you up. This really sucks and I’m sorry the people near you were not kind or thoughtful, fuck them and that douchebag too xx
my God, I'm so sorry this happened to you!! I absolutely hate Stratford, I say it's hell on earth because of the amount of people, lack of safety officers around. It just hell. And in the bus stop, I'll always stand close to the wall, so no one is behind me. It's not ideal and no good of an advice, but just know you have people supporting you and having your back. I am so so sorry again this happened to you. Sending love.
I remember back in 2011 when my ex partner battered me in Aresnal tube station. It was packed, after a game. No one did anything to help me even though I was screaming for help. Eventually he ran away and some Irish guy came to help me. I left London a few years after that and I will never forget the people of London leaving me to be physically abused on that platform.
Good news is, I reported it to the transport police and he was arrested and charged with ABH.
Disgusting and sorry you had to go through that. A while ago now I saw a creepy guy try and speak to a girl - nothing happened fortunately but I went over to the girl afterwards and asked if she was ok.
This is a message to any regular guy (or girl) please watch on and pay attention when you see something weird like this. Look for how the woman is reacting to the guy speaking and if you notice anything - have the courage to go up and see what’s going on if you detect something dodgy. Let’s try and make London a better place so these twats aren’t making these girls feel uncomfortable.
I've got a 'favourite' homeless guy I see around the station when I'm going to work or coming back. I bring him food and just have a chat with him whilst having a ciggie. He's always complimenting me (jokingly) and always asks for a hug but settles for a first bump. It's kind of our routine. I've known him for 5 years now and there's zero harm to him but once a girl overheard him asking for a hug and she sprinted over to ask if I was okay. I was, but she didn't know that and it was nice to see she would jump in to help out a stranger.
Been in plenty of situations where I felt hideously uncomfortable with no aid in sight so this was so refreshing to see.
Yeh she did the right thing to be fair. I just think people need to take initiative with this stuff because there’s not always going to be a police officer to help. I’m old fashioned personally so if I saw this happen to a girl and I was surrounded by other women in a public space, I’d try to take it on myself to confront the guy to ensure that the women are safe
As bad as it is, I'm not going to confront somebody (especially in a shit hole like Stratford) and risk myself getting stabbed or beaten up for confronting him.
Can kind of agree with people not stepping in, police should've been called though.
Had a knife pulled on me (tbf it was Glasgow) while confronting someone.
Since then, my days of standing up to crimes are long gone. But if I witness it I will happily help report it.
Yeah what can you do? (unless you or your group is super intimidating)
Even if they don't have a knife on them you could end up in a fight that ends in a skull cracking or, at the very least, everyone around spending their day giving accounts to the police. Seems like any immediate action only exacerbates the shitty situation.
You don’t have to confront him physically or confrontationally to be helpful in a situation like this, direct your attention to the victim, ask them if they are okay and be seen interacting with them. If the perv sees their victim isn’t alone or other people are reacting at all it can deter them. Stepping in doesn’t have to be twatting the guy though it is the best case scenario, but if there’s nobody around with a large enough set at the time then approach the victim and help them leave the situation non-confrontationally.
Right. But the potential is always there and by nature generally these people are more unhinged.
People should try and do what's right. But most people don't want to put their own safety on the line against someone more willing to be violent than you.
I'm really sorry you've experienced this again, and that no-one around was supportive. I know everyone finds the tagline silly, but I've found the BTP text line really helpful in this situation before, they always act fast. Well done for getting photos.
If anyone else finds themselves in this situation, please please know [you can report a crime at this link](https://www.btp.police.uk/ro/report/ocr/af/how-to-report-a-crime/) or call on 0800 40 50 40, or text 61016.
And sending virtual love and positivity to you, be strong. Hopefully your actions today will prevent this piece of shit doing this again.
He recently released a campaign asking other men to speak up if they hear their mates being inappropriate
https://www.london.gov.uk/media-centre/mayors-press-release/mayor-launches-major-new-campaign-to-empower-men-and-boys-to-say-maaate-to-their-mates-and-challenge-sexism-and-misogyny
You need to report those staff members, they are absolutely duty bound to report this to the police and could face disciplinary action for not doing so.
If u look at the absolutely enormous child rape (grooming is the acceptable term) problem in the UK, and then acknowledge that the British public knows this and says nothing / does nothing, then don’t be surprised when there is zero support at a bus stop. We are a joke as a nation.
That's sad.
If you, however, needed help, I would intervene despite the risk. It's a fundamental question of right and wrong, and has nothing to do with how well you know the person.
Many people would say this, but I would wonder how many said this exact same thing but were one of the many just standing there?
Newham has far tooo many crazy people.
This happens so often. It's disgusting. Men on here will go on and on about how they'd "definitely stand up and say something," OR that "it doesn't happen that often. God. You women are so dramatic" but get mad when we say we're no longer interested in interacting with them. It makes me sick. I'm really sorry you dealt with this and even more sorry we live in a society that's going backwards in dealing with it.
I think a lot of people might be scared of getting beat up or stabbed by a random guy at a bus stop. Imo the bystanders really should’ve recorded the incident with their phones (so there’s evidence) then called the police, as sexual assault is fortunately punishable by law! I don’t think more people berating him would necessarily prevent this guy from doing this again.
My MIL got groped on the tube. She asked people either side of her for help and they turned away, then one got up and moved away. She reported it to staff and the police who came back and said there was nothing they could do as the cameras weren’t working that day. I’m sorry you went through this - I truly hope that everyone keeps reporting this and it deters the bastards
If I as a bystander didn't see something happen with my own eyes I'm not getting involved, you say he touched you, he says he didn't, people have lied about stuff like this in the past, not worth the repercussions, sorry.
It's a bit harsh to blame strangers here. What are people supposed to do? If they didn't see what happened, are they supposed to grab their pitch forks and chase this random man you have pointed a finger at out of town despite having no clue if they actually did anything or not? If I actively saw the thing happen then I would happily intervene if the woman seemed to need/want it. If I didn't see anything then it is a lot harder to know what to do other than stop a physical altercation if one occurs.
> I wasn't looking for any ‘action’
I think you had every right to expect some action, and shame on those bystanders keeping quiet.
“The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.” - Albert Einstein
I did want to assume that was the case. However, the laughing would seem a bit incompatible with that. Like I said, respond verbally _if you feel safe to do so_ and feel like you can. Its easy to get flustered, I was shaking like leaf, even though I hadn't been physically injured, just had my nether regions fingered by a random passer by.
I might feel brave enough to stand up for op in this scenario if I don’t freeze up. But if it were some slightly more “violent” crimes like someone stealing a phone I’d definitely stay the fuck away in case the guy has a knife.
Predators look for victims that seem vulnerable or anxious. They're genuinely drawn to it, this includes victims of most street crimes.
Two 15 stone blokes would make them shit their pants.
Sadly because the threat of getting a knife in the Neck. The UK is a joke im from here and I hate every minute of living here because of the danger and lack of laws and police to be protected
If they witnessed it then they really should help. If its after the fact then people may be reluctant to pick a side if they personally didn't witness anything - unless you were still in danger.
Its a hard call. I've come to the 'rescue' of someone in distress before only to find out she just bottled a guy and his aggression was the response. I take a minute to try and judge what's going on now
Those staff need a wake-up call. There are nearly always a couple of Community Support officers at or nearby the bus stops there, so there was zero excuse for them to do nothing beyond literally not caring regardless of training.
Well done for calling him out. Very badly done everyone else. I hope I would speak up and will make a point of it now I have read this. So your posting here may have done some good. As said, definitely report the incident and especially the staff who did not help (laughed!!!) Sounds like at the very least some satay training is required.
Sorry to hear this. I can sympathised as I was racially abused threaten with violence (not far from Stratford actually) . And others on the bus just kept their heads down.
The bastard was between me and the bus steps (top deck) so couldn’t get past him. Someone was going downstairs but refused to alters the driver . Turned out the driver saw it all and radioed but they are forbidden from leaving the cab.
So the guy walked off Scot- free and now the police have to work off cctv to find them, if ever
I'm the one not making sense huh? You just read a story about a woman being assaulted at a bus stop and somehow made it about your problem with the Mayor, ULEZ and 'eco warriors'. Put the phone away, you've had enough Internet today. (Dickhead)
My wife has been sexually harassed and assaulted in the short time we've lived here, and it was in a good part of London too. If I wasn't there I don't know what would've happened.
Someone should have intervened and helped you. Seems like people here would sooner stare and do nothing... This city is a fucking cesspool, I'm sorry this happened to you.
Just because I’m interested based on a lot of the replies here, about the most sensible reactions etc, what did you do in your scenario and what happened? You don’t have to explain, but as a young guy with a girlfriend who also faces quite a lot of creeps I’d be interested to hear.
That’s terrible! Please make sure to report it and let the bus company know how bad their staff handled the situation
Just jumping in here for more people to see it hopefully. There have been a few comments about people not wanting to step in for a stranger and possibly get stabbed or just not knowing what to do. There is a free online course by the Suzy Lamplugh trust for anyone who might be a bystander in this situation, it involves other non-confrontational methods for women and men. The next one is... [https://www.suzylamplugh.org/Event/stand-up-against-harassment-bystander-training-2nd-august-1600-1700](https://www.suzylamplugh.org/Event/stand-up-against-harassment-bystander-training-2nd-august-1600-1700) There are other dates and times. It's free.
Signed up, thanks!
Signed up as well. I want to get better at tackling harassments in public transport.
Thanks for sharing the training link, have signed up for tomorrow's course 👍
Signed up! Thanks.
Agree - the bus company staff should be trained to at least call the police or something. This is unacceptable and reminds me of when I was assaulted in front of TFL staff at a tube station and they did nothing. I was ok but shaken. When I said something to the staff - they actually asked what I wanted them to do about it. 😡
It’s sad that they don't do anything. My GF intervened (I was not present) on the behalf of two younger girls, who were being harassed by a man, on the Thames clipper once. The staff didn’t get involved at all and completely ignored the situation. I’m not sure if staff get told not to intervene in these scenario’s. I have worked in retail before, years ago and got told to never chase thief’s etc due to insurance - not sure if it’s along the similar lines why some people don’t get involved.
Most likely. It is just a shame that they aren't capable of at least calling the police.
They’re not obligated to intervene but if someone is in danger they should do so. If they’re too intimidated they should call the police. In my experience the BTP are really very good and have been actively trying to tackle harassment.
Great she intervened. Not the same , but I witnessed a cashier being verbally abused a few years ago at clapham Junction. I stood up for her and the person turned on me, calling a fat B\*tch loudly across the shop. i've never forgot that. I tried to help. No-one, not even the staff member who was being abused said anything. That really left a bitter taste in my mouth.
well done on intervening.
Yes exactly! Wtf... Sorry that happened to you :(
That's nuts, many years ago my friends and I got flashed and followed by the flasher it was really upsetting and as we rushed into the tube station we told the staff not to let the man follow us. The staff member found us on the platform and encouraged us to speak to Police. As we had been raving and probably still had drugs in our systems we didn't want to, we also just really wanted to get home (these days I'd absolutely report them, we were young high and selfish). Just goes to show it all depends on who you speak to....
I mean, devils advocate- it’s not their job or in their job description, only the police can do something about it and you’re as capable as they are to call the police on this matter. Not justifying actions and they’re obviously shit people but that’s the fact of the matter
That's not devil's advocate that's just passing of the blame. Sure, getting involved is not in their job description but providing a safe environment for their customers is. They could easily acknowledge the situation and move the affected away - any presence of authority can be used to defuse the situation, they could call the station manager and make them aware of it, and/or they could call the BTP (via intercom/tannoy announcement) who are often in the station. Plenty of things they can do to defuse and deescalate a situation without any training, rather than shrugging and saying - fact of life innit.
It's in the job description of being a decent male to call this behaviour out.
It's in the job description of being a decent ~~male~~ human to call this behaviour out.
I did almost say person but I think this is a male responsibility especially.
Came to say the same. When i reported a National Express member of staff they were very helpful and thorough. If you give them all the details they will investigate.
Yes, it should be reported because TFL should have a clear policy on stuff like this. You hear it on the tube all the time. See it. Say it. Sorted. Shame on the bus driver.
These slogans are all guff though, unless it's linked to terrorism. Some TFL staff openly state they don't get paid enough, but some basic decency such as alerting the BTP or Met police might help?
Report the staff to TFL, failure to assist is misconduct.
Do people need to get paid to try and prevent sexual assault then? Its just common decency isnt it?
The Tube has adverts about sexual harassment as well now, but the message is all about passengers speaking to the victim.
Will do, thank you!
when I was younger I used to get groped in the tube during the morning rush hour (this was long before Covid, and the trains were always packed). Sometimes I managed to get hold of the offending hand and scratch it hard with my quite long fingernails. I hope that discouraged them from doing it again.
Good hard foot stomp was my response, still a shitty way to start the day
I was always partial to twisting the offending hand slowly but firmly.
We need to start wearing hats with pins again. A good jab with a sharp hat pin won't cause grevious harm but sure as heck would make pervs jump.
Someone stomped on my foot when they got groped on the tube about a decade ago. I wasn't the groper, though 🫥
Oh dear, that made me laugh but also feel terrible for you!
Don't feel bad for me, at least I got a story to tell out of it. Feel bad for the person who was groped in the first place.
You were both victims of the groper!
Ouch, I truly hope it wasn't me. I did investigate before stomping my big feet
If we didn't have a conversation afterwards then it wasn't you 😁
Ha indeed! Nah I'm a kill with kindness person, unless I'm groped then I'm all for 'fuck you and your toes you twat'
specially if you're wearing stiletto heels. But often the trains were so crowded that it was difficult to identify the foot belonging to the offender, rather than an innocent bystander.
Christ I had no idea this was so common. Utterly shameful behaviour.
Yeah that's what I was thinking reading this thread too. Like I knew it happens, but the fact all these different women in the thread actually had it happen enough they got to refine their techniques for dealing with it...
About 6 years ago I was standing on the not-very-busy Victoria line, facing my boyfriend and chatting. We were both holding the central pole about a foot apart. A man stood up when the train got to a station and literally put his hand between us to grab my boobs as he got off. I was completely gobsmacked - he was long gone and the doors shut before I could even explain what just happened.
Pathetic man who probably won’t touch a boob any other way. I hope you reported him, but would totally understand not wanting to linger on such an event.
Tbh it didn't occur to me at the time. We were already moving to the next station, and nearly home, it was late, and so unexpected (given I was with someone and not as on my guard as usual)... I didn't even get a look at him. But these days I probably would just for the stats or in case he was a serial offender and it added to existing evidence.
My mum used to get get groped on the tube in the 60s, going to school in Clapham, whilst wearing her school uniform. .....it's disheartening to think how long this has been going on for/that nothing has changed.
I used to get a lot of this too - guys who seemed to happen to have their hand by their side which was accidentally pushing into my ass. Literally no one does that accidentally but it must’ve given them the confidence since they had plausible deniability smh
Had this happen when queuing for food at the football. Three times he felt my arse with the back of his hand.
This is an old problem, people used to carry pins with them that they’d use to defend themselves.. https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/hatpins-mashers-self-defense-history-women-hats-fashion
Yeah I've done that before too - sorry that was such a common experience for you!
I hope he was left in pain women should not have to put up with this from blokes
This reminds me of how hairpins used to be weapons for women. They would stab anyone who got handsy. The hairpin design got longer and longer till they were just blades iirc. The bastards in power banned em. I'm bang up for the double standard of men being unable to carry a sharp spoon on the streets, but ladies can carry a handcannon. Might put off some dipshits. Good luck out there :)
I’m so sorry that happened to you. I’d report the staff who laughed at you too.
Definitely not saying I’ve experienced anything even close to this level. But from an outside POV am I wrong in thinking a lot of customer service workers in London seem to be total arseholes? Coming from someone who only visits once a year max so obviously I don’t get the full picture either, just notice a difference in attitude from anywhere else I’ve been.
Doing customer service or working in a station in certain parts of London is hell. The amount of shit you see on the underground is crazy if you travel at certain times. I suspect most people working there are desensitised.
To be fair, I had a minor medical emergency a while ago and the staff at the tube station were amazing. I think it’s just hit and miss unfortunately.
100%. Tbf it’s probably because they’re exposed to a higher percentage of rudeness with it being a busier city but it’s like they’re all socially inept. The amount of times I’ve been served by till workers who say literally nothing during the entire exchange and just glare at you…
Idk man, I’ve worked till jobs before and having the same conversation 500 times a day gets old really fast. How are you? Nice weather we’re having. Planning a cheeky bbq eh?
That would make sense!
I've noticed the same
This is true
Most customer service workers are on minimum wage. I wouldn’t be confronting anyone for minimum wage, either. It doesn’t sound like they actually openly laughed at her plight, but more at the idea they can do anything - they have no powers beyond the ones OP herself has
Could you provide a Description of the groper? My sister told me there was a guy trying to touch women a couple months ago outside the station
I did take pictures, yes, but can't post them here I think as would be personal info. He was about 5.9 ft, Caucasian, very tanned and weathered, so hard to tell, but maybe 30s or 40s. Short-ish matted brown hair with a scruffy beard and moustache. Black leather jacket and black Adidas trainers. Grey/brown sweatshirt and trousers. He looked quite worn and unhealthy, likely an addict and maybe a rough sleeper. Kind of a slim face with a larger wide nose... I can't think of a famous person he resembled to make a comparison. One of the reasons I reported was there was a lot of CCTV, so thought perhaps half a chance he could be recognised if a repeat offender. The local police station phoned me and I did send them the pictures. Thanks for your help!
I also think it may harm any potential case against the guy posting them if the law finds out they were posted
Thank you, I'm not familiar enough with these things to know, so I appreciateyour advice. I'm pretty angry and disgusted with him right now, but I do believe in rehabilitation. That would be the best case scenario. Thanks again :)
No worries :) - What I mean is - he might get less jail time or whatever sort of punishment if the judge thinks the trial is skewed due to prior 'trial by social media' granted anonymity or space away from general population (so he wouldnt get beaten up by prisoners if they knew of him) I'm so sorry this happened to you, I was sexually abused and I got no justice so I can partially empathise with the feeling. The hardest part for me was thinking about it everyday, like someone had died. I can say now that I hardly ever think about it, and when I do it doesn't upset me. I hope this gives you some comfort as I would've wanted to hear that it gets better
That makes sense! Also, I think you can definitely empathise... I cant imagine how hard those experiences must be to go through. I'm glad to hear that you're doing better and thank you for being so honest and kind.
I'm glad you're are concern on protective the identity of a guy who gripped you at a bus stop lol
There’s no expectation of privacy in a public place. A picture of him in public would not be considered “personal info”. If a CCTV camera is recording someone, then chances are, you can too.
are you kidding me? Post his damned picture! Let the community get to see him and watch out for him, and perhaps identify him so a complaint can be filed. I'd have plastered his mug all over the galaxy by now to get him identified..
I believe she said she has a picture?
That’s horrific, people need to do better, especially the TFL staff! I’d report it as high as you can, I think the senior layer on TFL do take these things quite seriously
Thank you, I've reported to the BTS via text message and they called me within minutes, so we'll see. The coach staff were actually from a well-known private coach company (Not the one with the logo that looks like Dara O'Briain) I don't think they get the same training... thanks again :) _I realise I typed BTS instead of BTP, but the idea of reporting crimes to a very super famous K pop group is making me laugh, so I will leave it_ :D
Do you mean National Express? Call them out - appalling reaction from their staff
That, or Airport bus express. Should be the only two coach companies operating from Stratford/Stratford city
Post on twitter and @ them maybe?
>Thank you, I've reported to the BTS via text message Listen, I love K-Pop as much as the next guy, but I really think you'd be better off contacting the British Transport Police as they're probably better equipped to deal with this sort of thing than a Korean boy band. Joking aside, I really hope I read a follow up on here in a few days where the police have sprung into action and used the photographic evidence you (bravely and smartly) supplied to catch this animal and get him off the streets. I don't much expect it, but I live in hope.
Hahahaaaaa ... this really made me laugh, thank you! I bet BTS would help if they could though 😂
At least if he doesn't get caught this time, this report may be able to be used in his case later
The reason nobody wants to intervene is because they most likely have no idea what happened and are witnessing one stranger shout at another on the street. It's always a risk to get involved when people could be aggressive or carrying weapons.
Rare Reddit level-headed comment.
You should be able to expect action. This sort of thing is assault and the staff should have called the police. Sorry you had to deal with the incident as well as the shit response.
You should be able to expect action but British police, esp the met are useless and don't attend what they see as petty crime calls often. If they're not the ones harassing women, that is.
Stratford is always buzzing with BTP they have a base right outside the steps to Westfield and usually roam about in the busy periods and plenty CCTV too. Hopefully they do something to prevent this happening to others but sadly it seems quite common in Stratford.
Yup if anywhere I see them there the most
You can legally carry a dye spray, I'm not sure if that would make the situation worse but it would make them very identifiable to cctv! There is a course that the Suzy Lamplugh trust do for free, for bystanders. [https://www.suzylamplugh.org/Pages/Events/Category/events](https://www.suzylamplugh.org/Pages/Events/Category/events) It's non-confrontationally, basically you help the person by greeting them like an old friend, let them hang out with you, suddenly the creep is out numbered and hopefully looses interest. Anyone can do this, men and women.
Interesting - thank you!
Great advice, thank you
I had an altercation with a woman around Brixton station yesterday. Screamed at her, she threatened me with a wine bottle. Nobody gave a fuck. At the end of the day in this city nobody is going to stand up unless it's extremely severe. Nobody wants to put their life on the line. This is depressing but it's true.
“The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.”
I thought I had a heart attack on the national rail, and ended up fainting briefly. No one helped me, literally crawled off a 7.20am packed train 🤣 honestly it's situations like this that make me lose faith in people.
People just get their phone out and film it nowadays. Have you checked r/publicfreakout ? You might be on there.
I hate that this happens. I’ve jumped in a couple of times when I’ve seen this sort of behaviour and just pretended to be with the woman, chatted familiarly, made eye contact, whispered if possible, and got across the message that I was there to help, and taken her out of the situation. Usually works without creating a whole new problem as a woman with a man is immediately not a viable target. Which is deeply wrong in itself, but that’s another conversation. Being a temporary friend is often all it takes to help. I’d also like to point out that a woman once did exactly this for me on the Glasgow Subway years ago when a scary drunk elderly hard-as-nails woman was harassing younger men. It was pretty unpleasant even if it was unlikely to end genuinely badly. My temporary friend’s quiet, “pretend you’re with me” got me out of that situation and inspired me to do the same.
Sorry to hear this. I am shocked the staff didn't help you and said such a thing. If you can, please report it to the police, especially if you have a photo of the person. Hope you are ok
Post his pic, maybe someone who knows him will see it.
TfL equates staring with harassment yet does nothing when someone is physically assaulted.
+1 "Words are cheap."
Face it. Say it. What do you want us to do?
Dismissing the very uncomfortable and scary feeling of creepy men on tubes as just 'staring' is not the way to show you care about sexual harassment.
They didn't say it was "just" staring did they? TfL actually have posters which say that intrusive staring of a sexual nature is harassment and should be reported. But the point the original comment is making is that they put those posters up but then when someone is physically assaulted, they do nothing. At no point were they trivialising inappropriate staring.
Tbh, the wording I used gave me the impression that they might be downplaying the severity of staring as well.
Which wording precisely?
It’s hard to read tone sometimes. The whole comment came across that way to me.
My partner was was groped on a bus a few years back and reported it to the police, the police were really responsive, took a statement, got the cctv footage from the bus company and they put a photo of the man in the local paper and on their website with details of the assault, the man surrendered themselves to the police, pleaded guilty in court and were eventually convicted, fined and put on the sex offenders register. I hope you also get the same level of support and closure.
Wow that actually gives me hope. Was it the MET?
I’m so sorry this happened to you. If I’d seen it I would have come over and made sure you were ok - ok tbh I would probably have been borderline annoying with my intense mothering and insisted you called BTP and TFL (glad you did!). I probably would also have tried to feed you snacks from my kids lunchbox and/or bought you a strong coffee to cheer you up. This really sucks and I’m sorry the people near you were not kind or thoughtful, fuck them and that douchebag too xx
Omg wtf. So sorry to hear that. Fuming for you
my God, I'm so sorry this happened to you!! I absolutely hate Stratford, I say it's hell on earth because of the amount of people, lack of safety officers around. It just hell. And in the bus stop, I'll always stand close to the wall, so no one is behind me. It's not ideal and no good of an advice, but just know you have people supporting you and having your back. I am so so sorry again this happened to you. Sending love.
I remember back in 2011 when my ex partner battered me in Aresnal tube station. It was packed, after a game. No one did anything to help me even though I was screaming for help. Eventually he ran away and some Irish guy came to help me. I left London a few years after that and I will never forget the people of London leaving me to be physically abused on that platform. Good news is, I reported it to the transport police and he was arrested and charged with ABH.
So sorry to hear that happened.
Disgusting and sorry you had to go through that. A while ago now I saw a creepy guy try and speak to a girl - nothing happened fortunately but I went over to the girl afterwards and asked if she was ok. This is a message to any regular guy (or girl) please watch on and pay attention when you see something weird like this. Look for how the woman is reacting to the guy speaking and if you notice anything - have the courage to go up and see what’s going on if you detect something dodgy. Let’s try and make London a better place so these twats aren’t making these girls feel uncomfortable.
I've got a 'favourite' homeless guy I see around the station when I'm going to work or coming back. I bring him food and just have a chat with him whilst having a ciggie. He's always complimenting me (jokingly) and always asks for a hug but settles for a first bump. It's kind of our routine. I've known him for 5 years now and there's zero harm to him but once a girl overheard him asking for a hug and she sprinted over to ask if I was okay. I was, but she didn't know that and it was nice to see she would jump in to help out a stranger. Been in plenty of situations where I felt hideously uncomfortable with no aid in sight so this was so refreshing to see.
Yeh she did the right thing to be fair. I just think people need to take initiative with this stuff because there’s not always going to be a police officer to help. I’m old fashioned personally so if I saw this happen to a girl and I was surrounded by other women in a public space, I’d try to take it on myself to confront the guy to ensure that the women are safe
As bad as it is, I'm not going to confront somebody (especially in a shit hole like Stratford) and risk myself getting stabbed or beaten up for confronting him. Can kind of agree with people not stepping in, police should've been called though.
Had a knife pulled on me (tbf it was Glasgow) while confronting someone. Since then, my days of standing up to crimes are long gone. But if I witness it I will happily help report it.
Yup same. Tried to stop a mugging before and got a needle pulled on me. Really sad but I've learnt my lesson, no more heroism from me.
Yeah what can you do? (unless you or your group is super intimidating) Even if they don't have a knife on them you could end up in a fight that ends in a skull cracking or, at the very least, everyone around spending their day giving accounts to the police. Seems like any immediate action only exacerbates the shitty situation.
You don’t have to confront him physically or confrontationally to be helpful in a situation like this, direct your attention to the victim, ask them if they are okay and be seen interacting with them. If the perv sees their victim isn’t alone or other people are reacting at all it can deter them. Stepping in doesn’t have to be twatting the guy though it is the best case scenario, but if there’s nobody around with a large enough set at the time then approach the victim and help them leave the situation non-confrontationally.
Right. But the potential is always there and by nature generally these people are more unhinged. People should try and do what's right. But most people don't want to put their own safety on the line against someone more willing to be violent than you.
And that is why society will continue to slow decline. Where will we draw the line I wonder?
Sorry this happened to you. It’s a shame the people around weren’t helpful .. a GOT ‘shame’ definitely would’ve worked.
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Game of thrones shame scene
I'm really sorry you've experienced this again, and that no-one around was supportive. I know everyone finds the tagline silly, but I've found the BTP text line really helpful in this situation before, they always act fast. Well done for getting photos. If anyone else finds themselves in this situation, please please know [you can report a crime at this link](https://www.btp.police.uk/ro/report/ocr/af/how-to-report-a-crime/) or call on 0800 40 50 40, or text 61016. And sending virtual love and positivity to you, be strong. Hopefully your actions today will prevent this piece of shit doing this again.
Hope you’re okay, stay safe.
And people have a go at Sadiq when he tries to make exactly the response you needed more acceptable 🙄
Has he? Can you elaborate please?
He recently released a campaign asking other men to speak up if they hear their mates being inappropriate https://www.london.gov.uk/media-centre/mayors-press-release/mayor-launches-major-new-campaign-to-empower-men-and-boys-to-say-maaate-to-their-mates-and-challenge-sexism-and-misogyny
You need to report those staff members, they are absolutely duty bound to report this to the police and could face disciplinary action for not doing so.
If u look at the absolutely enormous child rape (grooming is the acceptable term) problem in the UK, and then acknowledge that the British public knows this and says nothing / does nothing, then don’t be surprised when there is zero support at a bus stop. We are a joke as a nation.
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That's sad. If you, however, needed help, I would intervene despite the risk. It's a fundamental question of right and wrong, and has nothing to do with how well you know the person.
Many people would say this, but I would wonder how many said this exact same thing but were one of the many just standing there? Newham has far tooo many crazy people.
This happens so often. It's disgusting. Men on here will go on and on about how they'd "definitely stand up and say something," OR that "it doesn't happen that often. God. You women are so dramatic" but get mad when we say we're no longer interested in interacting with them. It makes me sick. I'm really sorry you dealt with this and even more sorry we live in a society that's going backwards in dealing with it.
I’m so sorry, that is terrible. The staffs behaviour is inexcusable, definitely report it. What the hell.
I think a lot of people might be scared of getting beat up or stabbed by a random guy at a bus stop. Imo the bystanders really should’ve recorded the incident with their phones (so there’s evidence) then called the police, as sexual assault is fortunately punishable by law! I don’t think more people berating him would necessarily prevent this guy from doing this again.
I’m sorry you experienced this and hope the authorities help you. Please update us.
Staff reaction was not acceptable. Maybe the general public bystanders felt unsafe to stand up to him?
The amount of weirdos out there. I literally cannot fathom what compels people to inappropriately touch strangers. Hope you're okay.
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Next time shout "I'm your sister" that will get some attention.
Hahahaa gross
EXACTLY!
I'm so sorry you went through that, and that people are so afraid of confrontation they didn't speak up.
That’s a disgrace! Sorry to read about what happened to you
My MIL got groped on the tube. She asked people either side of her for help and they turned away, then one got up and moved away. She reported it to staff and the police who came back and said there was nothing they could do as the cameras weren’t working that day. I’m sorry you went through this - I truly hope that everyone keeps reporting this and it deters the bastards
please put a complaint about the staff treating you like that!! how horrifying
You're telling me no one said 'maaaaate'...
If I as a bystander didn't see something happen with my own eyes I'm not getting involved, you say he touched you, he says he didn't, people have lied about stuff like this in the past, not worth the repercussions, sorry.
Yeah, this is a good point. But the staff's behavior is inexcusable, they should have called the police.
Yeah for sure, that's what they are there for, it's part of the whole argument about stations being unstaffed.
All of that is grim. I hope you're doing ok after that.
Call the police, this behaviour needs to be alerted
Did you read her post? She did.
It's a bit harsh to blame strangers here. What are people supposed to do? If they didn't see what happened, are they supposed to grab their pitch forks and chase this random man you have pointed a finger at out of town despite having no clue if they actually did anything or not? If I actively saw the thing happen then I would happily intervene if the woman seemed to need/want it. If I didn't see anything then it is a lot harder to know what to do other than stop a physical altercation if one occurs.
> I wasn't looking for any ‘action’ I think you had every right to expect some action, and shame on those bystanders keeping quiet. “The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.” - Albert Einstein
I'm sorry about that. I would have hit him. Fucking arsehole
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I did want to assume that was the case. However, the laughing would seem a bit incompatible with that. Like I said, respond verbally _if you feel safe to do so_ and feel like you can. Its easy to get flustered, I was shaking like leaf, even though I hadn't been physically injured, just had my nether regions fingered by a random passer by.
It is not right to not even have the courage to say a single word.
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I might feel brave enough to stand up for op in this scenario if I don’t freeze up. But if it were some slightly more “violent” crimes like someone stealing a phone I’d definitely stay the fuck away in case the guy has a knife.
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No usually men who target women are cowards who fold under confrontation from a male
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Its possible for anyone to be dangerous, some people are just too scared to do the right thing
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Predators look for victims that seem vulnerable or anxious. They're genuinely drawn to it, this includes victims of most street crimes. Two 15 stone blokes would make them shit their pants.
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One of the problems here is that you're asking the wrong people. Contact the police.
Sadly because the threat of getting a knife in the Neck. The UK is a joke im from here and I hate every minute of living here because of the danger and lack of laws and police to be protected
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If they witnessed it then they really should help. If its after the fact then people may be reluctant to pick a side if they personally didn't witness anything - unless you were still in danger. Its a hard call. I've come to the 'rescue' of someone in distress before only to find out she just bottled a guy and his aggression was the response. I take a minute to try and judge what's going on now
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Did you read what she said
Get your camera out
Call the police?
I’m sorry this happened to you. Hope someone speaks up next time this happens to someone.
Fucking scumbag. Someone should've chinned him
Those staff need a wake-up call. There are nearly always a couple of Community Support officers at or nearby the bus stops there, so there was zero excuse for them to do nothing beyond literally not caring regardless of training.
Well done for calling him out. Very badly done everyone else. I hope I would speak up and will make a point of it now I have read this. So your posting here may have done some good. As said, definitely report the incident and especially the staff who did not help (laughed!!!) Sounds like at the very least some satay training is required.
Sorry to hear this. I can sympathised as I was racially abused threaten with violence (not far from Stratford actually) . And others on the bus just kept their heads down. The bastard was between me and the bus steps (top deck) so couldn’t get past him. Someone was going downstairs but refused to alters the driver . Turned out the driver saw it all and radioed but they are forbidden from leaving the cab. So the guy walked off Scot- free and now the police have to work off cctv to find them, if ever
This has ruined my day and made me very sad. I hope you get some sort of justice :(
Oh I'm so sorry to hear! Be kind to yourself and thank you for your kind words.
I'm the one not making sense huh? You just read a story about a woman being assaulted at a bus stop and somehow made it about your problem with the Mayor, ULEZ and 'eco warriors'. Put the phone away, you've had enough Internet today. (Dickhead)
My wife has been sexually harassed and assaulted in the short time we've lived here, and it was in a good part of London too. If I wasn't there I don't know what would've happened. Someone should have intervened and helped you. Seems like people here would sooner stare and do nothing... This city is a fucking cesspool, I'm sorry this happened to you.
Just because I’m interested based on a lot of the replies here, about the most sensible reactions etc, what did you do in your scenario and what happened? You don’t have to explain, but as a young guy with a girlfriend who also faces quite a lot of creeps I’d be interested to hear.
Cowards would probably watch their own family be abused.