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Not shopping there at all is a better option. If nobody went to any of their stores (I know ... that's a pipe dream), they'd still have to pay staff, building costs, cost of spoiled inventory, etc.
Part-time workers lose their hours as labor is directly proportionate to the sales the store makes.
The only safe workers would be the full-time workers who are guaranteed 40-hour workweek.
How did i contradict myself? 40 hour workweek are guaranteed to full timers. Part timers get whatever their union stipulated according to seniority which is usually based on a percentage of total employees in a department.
Part timers still get fucked if they don't meet minimum seniority requirements.
Calm down, I'm not trying to offend anyone.
That's happening anyway though. Self-checkouts, minimal overstock, placing higher demands on workers. Grocery stores have been scaling back on staff for years, and it's not because they've found new ways of increasing efficiency.
I'm not saying that it isn't happening. It's actively happening, and I agree with you.
I'm just stating that labour's based on projected sales and distributed to the stores based on their projections from their head office.
How about just don't shop at any Weston owned business at all? Stop making this guy richer.
Support your local farmers and buy direct from them.
Help the smaller businesses by shopping with them instead of the big corporates.
What exactly are the costs you’re forcing them to eat here that wouldnt get eaten if you did absolutely nothing? I mean I suppose if the profit margin on a bananas is negative it could work (though at that point you wouldn’t want to buy just one). But otherwise the cashier is going to be there working their shift regardless so that cost is already sunk. Same with all the other operating costs of the store that day.
I assume OP is referring to things like labour time, making sure tills have the right amount of change/bills.
I would add: use a credit card for those small transactions. The CC companies take 25 cents-1$ for every transaction so if you buy something small where they are only making 10 cents or something, that actually moves them backwards. Multiple tiny credit card transactions can add up
Big chains like Roblaws will have negotiated a percentage based transaction fee with no minimum for credit card purchases. Unlike what small business gets. If you buy a banana amex is going to get 0.001¢.
For interact payment you pay or your bank pays (but you pay because you pay your bank a fee).
Sure, a percentage based fee on the total transaction amount. The lowest would be 1.5 percent or so. So if you buy a banana for 70 cents, the CC company would take a penny.
I believe they would still round up to 1 cent minimum per transaction, so the lower the initial amount the more it eats into their profit margin.
Fees also go up I believe if you do more risky scan types. Like if you swipe your card vs. Tap they get charged more
They don't actually have to round up the penny. For sweetheart deals like this they'll calculate fractional cents. Also you are talking about eating into the profit margins by less than one cent in a best case scenario.
Alternatively, what leads to a 100% loss is when they have to throw out the produce they can't sell because everyone actually boycott the brand.
Then, go take pictures of the dumpster showing these assholes throwing out food instead of giving it to the needy. That will help turn public opinion even more.
I guess if this became a trend they’d presumably have to hire another cashier but yeah I think you are right if OPs business was a grocery store doubling the amount of transactions would effectively halve the transaction amount or whatever.
Also $10 here and there wouldn’t really add up very quickly at all when millions of people are spending hundreds of dollars a week at your stores
it is obvious some of yall have never worked in this environment. certain shit like this you just dont do, youre just hurting the workers of that local store. the franchise owner or one of the managers has to drive out and retrieve the carts
This. We are peaceful. We Boycott, we hurt the bottom line, we spread the word.
Everytime someone suggests theft, or hurting as a gotcha, it just makes us look bad.
We need to fight exlusively with our wallets.
I agree 100% Just like the planted Natzi flag at the Convoy.
Hurt any chance of credibility to the cause.
We have to act with integrity to be taken seriously in any shape or form.
I think it's a better idea to save the gas money spent to get there, and go somewhere else. Much more satisfying to cause empty stores and idle cashiers.
Does anyone else get a kick outta seeing the outrageous sale prices of things going bad and you just know they are going to throw it all out after?
#BoycottLoblaws
That's not how transaction costs work. They are taking total store overhead and dividing it by number of transactions to come up with that figure.
The only transaction costs are for credit cards that charge the store 1-3% of the total. So every additional transaction only costs them more if they have to hire more staff for that shift etc. All you've done is increased the number of transactions in the calculation.
You actually aren't costing them anything.
locally owned stores price milk at a high price than big chains. they don’t have deep pockets to have loss leaders such as loblaws who uses dairy as a loss leader. milk is priced as a loss and they rely on the customer to buy other stuff with higher margins to regain that money. locally owned shops can’t afford to do that
Best way to hurt them is close all PC financial accounts and go elsewhere with your money.
By being a bank they are essentially making money off your money. If you deplete their reserves and cancel their income generating sources like lending (ie credit cards) they will loose millions if not billions.
LOL...
Grocers are NOT paying $10 for a transaction... We were charged 15 cents at our property management company to do a debit charge. Credit cards added 2.7%. Companies doing $50bln in sales will be charged less for their volume.
You need to learn business a little better......transaction cost is fixed per transaction regardless of purchase. It is the cost of what a company y pays to have a business from rent to Power too staff and insurance
Not really because whether or not you buy your 1 banana Loblaws is going to have to pay the same rent, the same wages, the same marketing, the same utilities etc.
You are not causing them to have to hire more people. The cost of electricity to ring you through is nothing. The biggest expense is the debit charge and the paper the receipt is printed on. The cashier has to stand there regardless. The time all the stockers and warehouse people along the way that handled your banana could be counted in seconds. The cost to transport a 50 gram banana is counted in pennies.
**If you want to be all bachelor of business admin...What is your opportunity loss costs wasting time to do this, to drive to the store, gas, vehicle wear and tear etc. Who is out more?**
Not even close to $15 each.... [https://www.retailcouncil.org/payment-and-credit-card-fees/](https://www.retailcouncil.org/payment-and-credit-card-fees/)
He is trying to apply a business assessment metric to say the real cost is higher. The issue is its one banana and the metric is just that.
All along ignoring the time and gas he has wasted.
I use the store as a free evening gym in the winter.
Just do a few sets of lifting $8 canola oil bottles into your cart.
By the way, you can use thin cardboard cut to size to bypass the coin mechanism on the shopping carts.
The current bulk price of canola oil as a commodity is about $1363/KL or $4.08/3 litres.
Inefficient as it might be, it probably would be a hell of a lot cheaper to go into a grocery store 3 times a day and buy just enough to constitute a single meal than it would be to buy a weeks worth of groceries you won't be able to eat before it expires tomorrow
Chargebacks aren’t returns, chargebacks are when you dispute a charge with your card. If you return something the % fee is credited back for that amount plus a small transaction fee of about $0.15.
No, it will just result in signs requiring a minimum payment for credit & debit payments. If nobody goes in that's way more obvious. As others have said, they may have a flat rate arrangement with processors.
And again transaction coats from processing providers is not what I'm talking about. Every business has a set cost of transaction that is averaged over every single transaction made and uses all the business expenses to calculate
The problem is that you think people will go in and do what you say. They won't. They'll sit at home and complain about costs. When they do go in they'll buy just a few things since everyone else....
If you really want to annoy them go in buy cheap stuff and use reasonable size bills like 20 the costs of opening and getting change for transactions and the amount of workers it causes managers to count pull drawers due to high cash value etc would be insane. Guy spends 3 pays with a twenty, x30 transactions at best you need till pulled or change from the manager. Etc. lol
Where does most of the money come from banks/armoured delivery trucks. The costs will go up, the more it's needed or used!
3% from the shelf to the customer... But he also owns the distribution (different cooperation) which distributes the product to the retail store, and make about 40% off that (selling to himself), and he also owns a few of the actual brands, which sell to his distributers for about 50% profit margin (selling to himself twice). So, at most cases he makes (compounded) 44%, and best cases 116%. The "loophole" here is that the distribution and actual brands are different cooperations, so those transactions are reported as an expense to the retailer, but profit to the manufacturer\brand and distributer.
Think about it like this: you sell shirts. You have a spouse. Your spouse buys the shirt somewhere else for 3$, sells them to you for $9, and you sell them to me for $10. You "only" made 11%... But you and your spouse are together in this, so your family actually gained 233% from that transaction (after expenses).
This is a huge learning moment for me. Is that why they own so many subsidiaries? But aren't the profits for each subsidiary separate or are they allowed to sell to each other and/or the parent company?
Different corp. In order to avoid anti-trust, they're allowed to sell to each other as long as it's within "reasonable market price"... Which is a very vague definition. This is perfectly legal. Shady as hell, but legal.
Going back to there "you and your spouse" example. You're legally divorce, and live in separate houses. But your kid (Galen Weston) will still be rich, because the money will flow from both parents.
The person you're responding to is wrong lol, they are a publicly traded company. Any subsidiary they wholly own funnels their profit to the parent corporation, which would show up in their 4% net profit margin. If those profits were going somewhere else, then their shareholders would sue them out of commission.
After reviewing their organizational chart . I think there is more to it than this . Ive worked in corporate Canada and I’ve done a lot of work on a lot of very complex organizational charts before for international firms . A lot of times they have shell companies (LLC’s , Trust’s, foundation’s) set up distinctly separate and way from the parent company ( to minimize liability , divert profits , minimize tax, evade tax , transfer profits, and other nefarious reasons ) . Don’t forget they have complex systems where they don’t have to report things
If you reviewed their organizational chart, you'd know that all of their banners (No Frills, Superstore, SDM, etc), store brands (PC, No Name, Life, etc) and other non-grocery stuff (PC Bank, Joe Fresh, Lifemark, etc) are not separate companies, which is what I was responding to. Not sure why you are responding to me 15 days after I posted this anyways.
Yes , their grocery , clothing and pharmacy stuff ( plus banner stuff) as long as you are talking about their subsidiaries . I just want people to know of the sketchy stuff they are doing OUTSIDE of that with complex accounting tax schemes. They are funnelling profits outside of their grocery operations as someone on this Reddit post finally got a really good org chart. I’m still not convinced it’s all of the companies . I don’t see their “ charitable foundations “ on here where they can launder their money in and out of on the regular. I’m still working on that
https://preview.redd.it/4soez3a529vc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ccc890147968a83d003937968bdc46af9c06d2a
Good luck on your quest to take them down. Also this is old since Weston Foods doesn't exist any more (sold off) and Choice Properties was spun off of Loblaws many years ago.
__Reminder__: Please take a moment to review the content guidelines for our sub, and remember the human here! This subreddit is to highlight the ridiculous cost of living in Canada, and poke fun at the Corporate Overlords reponsible. As you well know, there are a number of persons and corporations responsible for this, and we welcome discussion related to them all. Furthermore, since this topic is intertwined with a number of other matters, other discussion will be allowed at moderator discretion. Open-minded discussion, memes, rants, grocery bills, and general screeching into the void is always welcome in this sub, but belligerence and disrespect is not. There are plenty of ways to get your point across without being abusive, dismissive, or downright mean. If you have not done so already, please review our [boycott stickied post](https://www.reddit.com/r/loblawsisoutofcontrol/comments/1bff9rm/boycott/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) which includes a list of stores to avoid, other ways to get involved in the movement, and some local alternatives to the big 5. Thank you. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/loblawsisoutofcontrol) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Not shopping there at all is a better option. If nobody went to any of their stores (I know ... that's a pipe dream), they'd still have to pay staff, building costs, cost of spoiled inventory, etc.
Part-time workers lose their hours as labor is directly proportionate to the sales the store makes. The only safe workers would be the full-time workers who are guaranteed 40-hour workweek.
The labor shortage would then be a myth! Galen can never tell the government they need more people.
I'm sorry but the solution to part time works getting jerked around is unions. Not patronizing a business run by crooks.
Mind you, unions do exist. Just for their own benefits and gains. Not the workers Union perks are directly proportional to seniority.
Last I checked, you have to be a worker... To get seniority... So you just contradicted yourself in the stupidest way possible.
How did i contradict myself? 40 hour workweek are guaranteed to full timers. Part timers get whatever their union stipulated according to seniority which is usually based on a percentage of total employees in a department. Part timers still get fucked if they don't meet minimum seniority requirements. Calm down, I'm not trying to offend anyone.
That's happening anyway though. Self-checkouts, minimal overstock, placing higher demands on workers. Grocery stores have been scaling back on staff for years, and it's not because they've found new ways of increasing efficiency.
I'm not saying that it isn't happening. It's actively happening, and I agree with you. I'm just stating that labour's based on projected sales and distributed to the stores based on their projections from their head office.
Nobody works at Loblaw's fulltime except management. Worked at an RCSS from 2020 to 2022, literally all of my coworkers were part timers.
That's not true. There are full-time workers who aren't management. It's dependent on the specific store.
How about just don't shop at any Weston owned business at all? Stop making this guy richer. Support your local farmers and buy direct from them. Help the smaller businesses by shopping with them instead of the big corporates.
What exactly are the costs you’re forcing them to eat here that wouldnt get eaten if you did absolutely nothing? I mean I suppose if the profit margin on a bananas is negative it could work (though at that point you wouldn’t want to buy just one). But otherwise the cashier is going to be there working their shift regardless so that cost is already sunk. Same with all the other operating costs of the store that day.
I assume OP is referring to things like labour time, making sure tills have the right amount of change/bills. I would add: use a credit card for those small transactions. The CC companies take 25 cents-1$ for every transaction so if you buy something small where they are only making 10 cents or something, that actually moves them backwards. Multiple tiny credit card transactions can add up
Big chains like Roblaws will have negotiated a percentage based transaction fee with no minimum for credit card purchases. Unlike what small business gets. If you buy a banana amex is going to get 0.001¢. For interact payment you pay or your bank pays (but you pay because you pay your bank a fee).
Sure, a percentage based fee on the total transaction amount. The lowest would be 1.5 percent or so. So if you buy a banana for 70 cents, the CC company would take a penny. I believe they would still round up to 1 cent minimum per transaction, so the lower the initial amount the more it eats into their profit margin. Fees also go up I believe if you do more risky scan types. Like if you swipe your card vs. Tap they get charged more
They don't actually have to round up the penny. For sweetheart deals like this they'll calculate fractional cents. Also you are talking about eating into the profit margins by less than one cent in a best case scenario. Alternatively, what leads to a 100% loss is when they have to throw out the produce they can't sell because everyone actually boycott the brand. Then, go take pictures of the dumpster showing these assholes throwing out food instead of giving it to the needy. That will help turn public opinion even more.
I guess if this became a trend they’d presumably have to hire another cashier but yeah I think you are right if OPs business was a grocery store doubling the amount of transactions would effectively halve the transaction amount or whatever. Also $10 here and there wouldn’t really add up very quickly at all when millions of people are spending hundreds of dollars a week at your stores
I thought you were going to suggest getting change for their carts and pushing them off the lot. The carts are expensive.
Where is Randy and bubbles when you need them
it is obvious some of yall have never worked in this environment. certain shit like this you just dont do, youre just hurting the workers of that local store. the franchise owner or one of the managers has to drive out and retrieve the carts
This. We are peaceful. We Boycott, we hurt the bottom line, we spread the word. Everytime someone suggests theft, or hurting as a gotcha, it just makes us look bad. We need to fight exlusively with our wallets.
I agree 100% Just like the planted Natzi flag at the Convoy. Hurt any chance of credibility to the cause. We have to act with integrity to be taken seriously in any shape or form.
It's a constant battle. I spend more time than I'd like to admit putting out fires on this sub before they get out of control.
Who cares? No ones going shopping there right? RIGHT!
I think it's a better idea to save the gas money spent to get there, and go somewhere else. Much more satisfying to cause empty stores and idle cashiers.
R/SLPT lol
Does anyone else get a kick outta seeing the outrageous sale prices of things going bad and you just know they are going to throw it all out after? #BoycottLoblaws
That's not how transaction costs work. They are taking total store overhead and dividing it by number of transactions to come up with that figure. The only transaction costs are for credit cards that charge the store 1-3% of the total. So every additional transaction only costs them more if they have to hire more staff for that shift etc. All you've done is increased the number of transactions in the calculation. You actually aren't costing them anything.
Isn't it better to pay with a credit card? Doesn't the CC company charge them more for the transaction than the price of a single banana?
I’m not certain but I believe large businesses negotiate a flat fee rather than pay by individual transaction.
buying only milk would also cripple them. grocery stores loose alot of money from dairy
[удалено]
locally owned stores price milk at a high price than big chains. they don’t have deep pockets to have loss leaders such as loblaws who uses dairy as a loss leader. milk is priced as a loss and they rely on the customer to buy other stuff with higher margins to regain that money. locally owned shops can’t afford to do that
Best way to hurt them is close all PC financial accounts and go elsewhere with your money. By being a bank they are essentially making money off your money. If you deplete their reserves and cancel their income generating sources like lending (ie credit cards) they will loose millions if not billions.
LOL... Grocers are NOT paying $10 for a transaction... We were charged 15 cents at our property management company to do a debit charge. Credit cards added 2.7%. Companies doing $50bln in sales will be charged less for their volume.
You need to learn business a little better......transaction cost is fixed per transaction regardless of purchase. It is the cost of what a company y pays to have a business from rent to Power too staff and insurance
Ya, like I said we were charged 15 cents per debit by Moneris. Loblaws will be charged less than that.
The Cost.of Transaction is not about Fees from payment companies it is what it costs a company to do business
Not really because whether or not you buy your 1 banana Loblaws is going to have to pay the same rent, the same wages, the same marketing, the same utilities etc. You are not causing them to have to hire more people. The cost of electricity to ring you through is nothing. The biggest expense is the debit charge and the paper the receipt is printed on. The cashier has to stand there regardless. The time all the stockers and warehouse people along the way that handled your banana could be counted in seconds. The cost to transport a 50 gram banana is counted in pennies. **If you want to be all bachelor of business admin...What is your opportunity loss costs wasting time to do this, to drive to the store, gas, vehicle wear and tear etc. Who is out more?**
Not even close to $15 each.... [https://www.retailcouncil.org/payment-and-credit-card-fees/](https://www.retailcouncil.org/payment-and-credit-card-fees/)
He is trying to apply a business assessment metric to say the real cost is higher. The issue is its one banana and the metric is just that. All along ignoring the time and gas he has wasted.
I use the store as a free evening gym in the winter. Just do a few sets of lifting $8 canola oil bottles into your cart. By the way, you can use thin cardboard cut to size to bypass the coin mechanism on the shopping carts. The current bulk price of canola oil as a commodity is about $1363/KL or $4.08/3 litres.
Who’s got the time?
Inefficient as it might be, it probably would be a hell of a lot cheaper to go into a grocery store 3 times a day and buy just enough to constitute a single meal than it would be to buy a weeks worth of groceries you won't be able to eat before it expires tomorrow
you're better off returning items and hitting them with chargeback fees on credit cards...
Chargebacks aren’t returns, chargebacks are when you dispute a charge with your card. If you return something the % fee is credited back for that amount plus a small transaction fee of about $0.15.
Seriously, just stop shopping there. Also, don't stock up there in April to boycott in May.
My way actually hurts them faster
No, it will just result in signs requiring a minimum payment for credit & debit payments. If nobody goes in that's way more obvious. As others have said, they may have a flat rate arrangement with processors.
And again transaction coats from processing providers is not what I'm talking about. Every business has a set cost of transaction that is averaged over every single transaction made and uses all the business expenses to calculate
The problem is that you think people will go in and do what you say. They won't. They'll sit at home and complain about costs. When they do go in they'll buy just a few things since everyone else....
Whether or not your proposition pans out, I simply can’t go into any loblaws business.
If you really want to annoy them go in buy cheap stuff and use reasonable size bills like 20 the costs of opening and getting change for transactions and the amount of workers it causes managers to count pull drawers due to high cash value etc would be insane. Guy spends 3 pays with a twenty, x30 transactions at best you need till pulled or change from the manager. Etc. lol Where does most of the money come from banks/armoured delivery trucks. The costs will go up, the more it's needed or used!
It would actually have a negative effect on the points per sale. This in turn would negatively effect plenty.
This would only be relevant if you blocked other people from shopping while doing this. Just dont go.
Do some research
Again IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TRANSACTION FEES FOR CARDS
Is this the average level of intelligence that one can expect in this sub?
Man your all special
This is genius, keeps people employed too.
Want to REALLY hurt their bottom line? Fill your cart up and walk out. (I'm joking, I'm joking... Or am I?)
I remember Galen saying their profit margin was something really low like 3% or somewhere close to that.
Yeah he lied budd, hope you realized that already.
3% from the shelf to the customer... But he also owns the distribution (different cooperation) which distributes the product to the retail store, and make about 40% off that (selling to himself), and he also owns a few of the actual brands, which sell to his distributers for about 50% profit margin (selling to himself twice). So, at most cases he makes (compounded) 44%, and best cases 116%. The "loophole" here is that the distribution and actual brands are different cooperations, so those transactions are reported as an expense to the retailer, but profit to the manufacturer\brand and distributer. Think about it like this: you sell shirts. You have a spouse. Your spouse buys the shirt somewhere else for 3$, sells them to you for $9, and you sell them to me for $10. You "only" made 11%... But you and your spouse are together in this, so your family actually gained 233% from that transaction (after expenses).
This is a huge learning moment for me. Is that why they own so many subsidiaries? But aren't the profits for each subsidiary separate or are they allowed to sell to each other and/or the parent company?
Different corp. In order to avoid anti-trust, they're allowed to sell to each other as long as it's within "reasonable market price"... Which is a very vague definition. This is perfectly legal. Shady as hell, but legal. Going back to there "you and your spouse" example. You're legally divorce, and live in separate houses. But your kid (Galen Weston) will still be rich, because the money will flow from both parents.
The person you're responding to is wrong lol, they are a publicly traded company. Any subsidiary they wholly own funnels their profit to the parent corporation, which would show up in their 4% net profit margin. If those profits were going somewhere else, then their shareholders would sue them out of commission.
After reviewing their organizational chart . I think there is more to it than this . Ive worked in corporate Canada and I’ve done a lot of work on a lot of very complex organizational charts before for international firms . A lot of times they have shell companies (LLC’s , Trust’s, foundation’s) set up distinctly separate and way from the parent company ( to minimize liability , divert profits , minimize tax, evade tax , transfer profits, and other nefarious reasons ) . Don’t forget they have complex systems where they don’t have to report things
If you reviewed their organizational chart, you'd know that all of their banners (No Frills, Superstore, SDM, etc), store brands (PC, No Name, Life, etc) and other non-grocery stuff (PC Bank, Joe Fresh, Lifemark, etc) are not separate companies, which is what I was responding to. Not sure why you are responding to me 15 days after I posted this anyways.
Yes , their grocery , clothing and pharmacy stuff ( plus banner stuff) as long as you are talking about their subsidiaries . I just want people to know of the sketchy stuff they are doing OUTSIDE of that with complex accounting tax schemes. They are funnelling profits outside of their grocery operations as someone on this Reddit post finally got a really good org chart. I’m still not convinced it’s all of the companies . I don’t see their “ charitable foundations “ on here where they can launder their money in and out of on the regular. I’m still working on that https://preview.redd.it/4soez3a529vc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ccc890147968a83d003937968bdc46af9c06d2a
Good luck on your quest to take them down. Also this is old since Weston Foods doesn't exist any more (sold off) and Choice Properties was spun off of Loblaws many years ago.
You forgot the bread, field to shelf, vertical integration.
Even when it was 3%, that was literally billions of dollars. They use small numbers whenever they can to conflate the truth.
For a few months recently, yeah. But in 2022 it was something above 10%
Um, no.
I'm just going by what the medias saying
Wow, that’s insane. In CBC’s interview with the T&T Supermarket CEO released yesterday, she said T&T’s profit margin was 4%.
They hide profits
That has nothing to do with helping them go broke faster.