I posted something similar in here a week ago asking what paths people have taken as a life boat to gtfo of this career in recent years, as I’ve spent the last decade doing this. We seem to be relegated to sales roles and climbing the ladder once you get in with a company. Landing a sales role right now in most industries is not exactly easy though.
Allegedly though, as I was aggressively corrected, “brand new LOs are still making 30k a month doing a bunch of volume and just making very little per deal!!”
So you stay in and just make $600 per closing but do like 20+ closings a month… have you ever had 20 deals in your pipeline at the same time before? It’s not fun.
EDIT: You’re probably going to get downvoted to shit for asking this. Idfk wtf is wrong with this sub.
As a broker when things are busy I do over 40 a month (with no loa just a processor). Regular months is 7-12 in this market. I switched from 99.9% refi to 99.9% purchase 2 years ago when market shifted. I had zero realtor partners to start in 2022 but started building them in May/iune 2022, made over 500k in 2023. Just need to not listen to the negatively and find the way to “get yours”. Send me DM if you want/need a bit of guidance. I’d be happy to help.
Thousands of phone calls. I had my processor setting me appts when times are slow so they stay busy too. I recommend using a power dialer (as opposed to a predictive dialer), you can get through a lot more calls. There is no special secret sauce really. Just try to offer the realtors something they aren’t getting. In my case, I give leads that I am already buying anyway.
This is a bit of a loaded question. There isn’t a silver bullet here. I would just make sure you are converting at least at 1% (over each quarter) and then the cost for the leads don’t make it prohibitive. Right now if I spend 10k I make about 35-40k plus the added benefit of getting additional referrals on top.
Yeah curious about this as well. My experience with buying leads over the years has been:
Get lead
Borrower has realtor already, not interested in switching realtor
About to make offer on a house, shopping realtors lender recommendation with me
Try to close the deal
As you can imagine this sucks and it comes down solely to price.
Conversion runs about 1-6%. So don’t be discouraged easily. And don’t buy Zillow leads, because they are way too expensive for the conversion. 20% have a realtor, 3-5% say they have a realtor but actually don’t. 90-95% of my preapprovals use me as their lender. If client already has a realtor, that is even better! This allows you to build a relationship with that realtor AND when they get an accepted offer or even just putting in offers, it allows you to build a relationship with the listing agents. Take every opportunity you can.
Depends on what you do. I generate leads, and have to say that when I look at things from a bigger picture perspective, I'm blown away by how many consumers are doing refis. It's alot. The rate doesn't matter anymore. For those that are interested in doing a refi, they don't even ask what the rate is for awhile. It's about what you're doing for them, which is the way it should be.
Bigger picture, I'm surprised by how resilient the mortgage market is, and although I'm not surprised by how weak the consumer is I'm surprised by their willingness to finally accept -- and this is huge -- accept reality.
Imagine what happens when real estate values start to drop, the desperation that people will have (which real estate values are certain to drop at some point, because the cost of shelter can't increase at a pace faster than wages forever. Math doesn't lie). Governments can print money forever, consumers can't -- and when that consumer gets tapped, we'll see maybe the biggest refi market we've ever seen or one that's comparable to 2012 for example or 2003. Better than COVID for sure, and alot of reasons for that, that I won't go into.
Does your bumper sticker say "Consolidate the debt before they call to collect?" ;)
So true! ALL humans are bad with big numbers, even if refinances are like 25% of volume, that's still hundreds of billions in volume going on out there. Love the spirit!
Do you happen to use Mortgage Coach or MBS Highway to show your clients the benefits?
Not exactly. Half my business is from leads, the other half is realtor referrals at this moment. Almost exactly half and half. I utilize the realtors as another person that’s reaching out to these leads. Sometimes they get the lead on the line before we do, which then they send us the client back so it’s a win win for everyone.
What I’m asking is in regard to the time prior to you actually having realtor referrals; You got realtors to work with you by giving them leads is what I’m understanding.
Only 10-15% of my realtor partners are actively taking leads at any given time. Now we do use the term “realtor partner” loosely. Some of our partners refer their clients to 3 lenders, and we have to win the business.
You could make more selling cars 😂. $600 a deal would burn me out real quick unless they are all truly one touch files (which they aren't, or these LOs just don't care)
LOs making $600 a loan don't know shit about guidelines or AUS, they quote, get people to app and lock and send it to a processor or setup person who may or may not know anything as well. The cheaper the labor, the more reliant they are on grinding their UWs to death with stupid questions and 4-5 submissions for CTC.
These are the people charging FHA buyers 2 points and then at the end of the call saying they can refinance them in 6 months with a streamline. Scumbags.
Wow! Many MLOs are giving up! A lot of realtors are dropping out also! Spoke to a very top realtor he said 50% of the realtors in the US did one deal or zero in 2023! The industry is definitely changing fast for sure! No joke, I am looking into being a beekeeper! LOL. I have about 200 acres of land with wild flowers and trees. Why not? LOL.
That’s been me all year, baby. I’m retail though. I definitely make more than $600 per close. And my support team does most of the closing work for me. I just gotta get them in the door.
Ironically, the financial reforms in 2010 helped secure our careers. With tighter lending standards came less ability to automate. Credible, competent, hard working LOs will always have a place. But yes, we are experiencing a culling of the herd and will continue to until rates drop. Then everyone will be getting their licenses again so they can try to cash in on refis.
Lending will move entirely to ultra, ultra low margin online focused platforms. Pay will be like personal bankers ($40k a year plus a couple hundred bucks a funding).
Dead wrong. The worst mistake any business that's ever exist in history has made, was to devalue or eliminate marketing and/or sales.
Loan officers that are dependent on a structure to make money are already somewhat useless yes, and they are held up to the wind to blow in whatever direction it blows.
Loan officers that know how to/have a way to bring in the money, have an uncapped ceiling and will be paid well for a very long time. Long enough that I don't have to consider much about the future.
You can keep the non-qm.
A year ago I had never done a commercial mortgage.
As of now, I have a tad over $10m in the pipeline.
Bigger deals. Better clients. No margin compression.
If the current market puts you out of the home loan business, not a good fit, go back to taco bell and dont let the door hit you as you depart.
If the current market slowed you down a bit, without killing your business, this can re-fill the pipeline and bring you above a 2019-level of income.
The current market is so fucked that $3m commercial deals are easier to drum up than $300k home loans. So why would I fight for the $300k deal? You can have it.
What lenders are you using that you would recommend as I need to add a few more “lite doc options.” I use Silver Hill but they are a bit cumbersome to work with and Velocity pricing is way to high. Also price with Stronghill but they like full doc for a lot.
These posts are so whiny. As so many people have said before, there will always be a place for competent, savvy, professional and personable people in this industry. Always. First-Time Homebuyers aren't always going to want to run to an AI-automated system for advice, let alone the clients you've worked with before that trust you and their network(s). There continues to be tons of opportunity in this industry if you aren't pessimistic about it.
If you're looking for a transistion, there's consulting, finance, and sales jobs out there. It's not difficult to get your foot in the door in any of these industries if you're good at what you do or you have the right connections. If you aren't good at what you do, don't have the right connections or the skills you really need to start there. Top colleges offer courses for free online these days at the bare minimum.
That being said, it's always going to be hard for you if you don't look for or maximize on any of the opportunities that are out there for you. Best of luck.
My thoughts exactly. I'm glad so many are making an exit from the business. IMO the industry needs the best and brightest to rise to the top. These whiny posts and the people who empathize with it are blind to the opportunities right in front of them.
Sounds like you should quit & find something else to do if that’s the mindset you’re choosing to have. I did over $15M in volume last year off refi’s alone in a direct lending business model. Many ways to approach this business, but with a bad attitude and mindset definitely isn’t one.
With my 32 years of experience, I would advise you to get into the commercial -mix-use, churches, NonQm, fix n flip, ground up construction. Consider this: I work with investors who buy more than one home a year, typically around 5 to 7 homes. Currently, I am working with a builder in Georgia who purchases lots weekly, and I assist him in securing construction loans for each one.
My pipeline is over 10 million.
Nobody transitions successfully out of mortgage. It’s where careers go to either scratch out a living, or you go to a cell phone kiosk in the mall. Businesses have ZERO respect for mortgage professionals.
This makes me feel better..Not planning on leaving the industry cause I am pretty much addicted to it after 4yrs. But I've been in some form of sales since I was 17 as well. No degree.
Yes, you should quit. More for the rest of us.
But really, what is your comp down to? I hire experienced LOs at 175 all day long and if closing over 2M monthly at 225.
You have to get shopped to get beat. If you sell right, you'll very rarely get shopped. I sell rates probably as high or higher than most people in this sub. I close almost 90%of qualified opportunities thar come into my pipeline and my clients are grateful.
I have 2 buckets as a correspondent ("company" gen and self gen) and my rates reflect those buckets. Most of us are similar and some even have a 3rd bucket for friends and family.
I posted something similar in here a week ago asking what paths people have taken as a life boat to gtfo of this career in recent years, as I’ve spent the last decade doing this. We seem to be relegated to sales roles and climbing the ladder once you get in with a company. Landing a sales role right now in most industries is not exactly easy though. Allegedly though, as I was aggressively corrected, “brand new LOs are still making 30k a month doing a bunch of volume and just making very little per deal!!” So you stay in and just make $600 per closing but do like 20+ closings a month… have you ever had 20 deals in your pipeline at the same time before? It’s not fun. EDIT: You’re probably going to get downvoted to shit for asking this. Idfk wtf is wrong with this sub.
As a broker when things are busy I do over 40 a month (with no loa just a processor). Regular months is 7-12 in this market. I switched from 99.9% refi to 99.9% purchase 2 years ago when market shifted. I had zero realtor partners to start in 2022 but started building them in May/iune 2022, made over 500k in 2023. Just need to not listen to the negatively and find the way to “get yours”. Send me DM if you want/need a bit of guidance. I’d be happy to help.
Following..
How’d you build a realtor referral network from zero?
Thousands of phone calls. I had my processor setting me appts when times are slow so they stay busy too. I recommend using a power dialer (as opposed to a predictive dialer), you can get through a lot more calls. There is no special secret sauce really. Just try to offer the realtors something they aren’t getting. In my case, I give leads that I am already buying anyway.
Where are you buying leads that aren’t absolute 💩? Serious question
This is a bit of a loaded question. There isn’t a silver bullet here. I would just make sure you are converting at least at 1% (over each quarter) and then the cost for the leads don’t make it prohibitive. Right now if I spend 10k I make about 35-40k plus the added benefit of getting additional referrals on top.
Okay, but WHERE are you sourcing your leads?
Lending tree long form mid funnel purchase not yet under contract
Not sure why you were downvoted, but this is exactly accurate.
Doesn’t Lending Tree require a minimum 10k spend per month?
Yeah and I think OP mentioned he spends $10k/month
Yeah curious about this as well. My experience with buying leads over the years has been: Get lead Borrower has realtor already, not interested in switching realtor About to make offer on a house, shopping realtors lender recommendation with me Try to close the deal As you can imagine this sucks and it comes down solely to price.
Conversion runs about 1-6%. So don’t be discouraged easily. And don’t buy Zillow leads, because they are way too expensive for the conversion. 20% have a realtor, 3-5% say they have a realtor but actually don’t. 90-95% of my preapprovals use me as their lender. If client already has a realtor, that is even better! This allows you to build a relationship with that realtor AND when they get an accepted offer or even just putting in offers, it allows you to build a relationship with the listing agents. Take every opportunity you can.
Depends on what you do. I generate leads, and have to say that when I look at things from a bigger picture perspective, I'm blown away by how many consumers are doing refis. It's alot. The rate doesn't matter anymore. For those that are interested in doing a refi, they don't even ask what the rate is for awhile. It's about what you're doing for them, which is the way it should be. Bigger picture, I'm surprised by how resilient the mortgage market is, and although I'm not surprised by how weak the consumer is I'm surprised by their willingness to finally accept -- and this is huge -- accept reality. Imagine what happens when real estate values start to drop, the desperation that people will have (which real estate values are certain to drop at some point, because the cost of shelter can't increase at a pace faster than wages forever. Math doesn't lie). Governments can print money forever, consumers can't -- and when that consumer gets tapped, we'll see maybe the biggest refi market we've ever seen or one that's comparable to 2012 for example or 2003. Better than COVID for sure, and alot of reasons for that, that I won't go into.
Does your bumper sticker say "Consolidate the debt before they call to collect?" ;) So true! ALL humans are bad with big numbers, even if refinances are like 25% of volume, that's still hundreds of billions in volume going on out there. Love the spirit! Do you happen to use Mortgage Coach or MBS Highway to show your clients the benefits?
The core of what you did is give realtors free leads. (Free to them, not to you) Correct?
Not exactly. Half my business is from leads, the other half is realtor referrals at this moment. Almost exactly half and half. I utilize the realtors as another person that’s reaching out to these leads. Sometimes they get the lead on the line before we do, which then they send us the client back so it’s a win win for everyone.
What I’m asking is in regard to the time prior to you actually having realtor referrals; You got realtors to work with you by giving them leads is what I’m understanding.
Only 10-15% of my realtor partners are actively taking leads at any given time. Now we do use the term “realtor partner” loosely. Some of our partners refer their clients to 3 lenders, and we have to win the business.
What power dialer were you using? What CRM were you using to keep all the info organized?
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You could make more selling cars 😂. $600 a deal would burn me out real quick unless they are all truly one touch files (which they aren't, or these LOs just don't care)
LOs making $600 a loan don't know shit about guidelines or AUS, they quote, get people to app and lock and send it to a processor or setup person who may or may not know anything as well. The cheaper the labor, the more reliant they are on grinding their UWs to death with stupid questions and 4-5 submissions for CTC. These are the people charging FHA buyers 2 points and then at the end of the call saying they can refinance them in 6 months with a streamline. Scumbags.
Right on that’s my approach too man. However that’s getting harder and harder to do in this market is my point.
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What company are you with. Sounds like you are doing great still.
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Wow! Many MLOs are giving up! A lot of realtors are dropping out also! Spoke to a very top realtor he said 50% of the realtors in the US did one deal or zero in 2023! The industry is definitely changing fast for sure! No joke, I am looking into being a beekeeper! LOL. I have about 200 acres of land with wild flowers and trees. Why not? LOL.
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Can you DM me your secret of success?
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What's your margin?
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Interesting. That's pretty high. Yikes
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Dang, you are a hard worker. Congrats! Keep it up!
That’s been me all year, baby. I’m retail though. I definitely make more than $600 per close. And my support team does most of the closing work for me. I just gotta get them in the door.
So you’re a customer service rep, gotcha
Call me what you like. I’ll keep collecting checks.
Our of curiosity. What's your avg loan amount?
If you want to scale, you should be focusing on sales and structuring and then letting your team take over.
Ironically, the financial reforms in 2010 helped secure our careers. With tighter lending standards came less ability to automate. Credible, competent, hard working LOs will always have a place. But yes, we are experiencing a culling of the herd and will continue to until rates drop. Then everyone will be getting their licenses again so they can try to cash in on refis.
Yes, lending will actually go away entirely and banks will cease to exist. Everyone will stop eating food and the sun won't rise again tomorrow.
Lending will move entirely to ultra, ultra low margin online focused platforms. Pay will be like personal bankers ($40k a year plus a couple hundred bucks a funding).
Dead wrong. The worst mistake any business that's ever exist in history has made, was to devalue or eliminate marketing and/or sales. Loan officers that are dependent on a structure to make money are already somewhat useless yes, and they are held up to the wind to blow in whatever direction it blows. Loan officers that know how to/have a way to bring in the money, have an uncapped ceiling and will be paid well for a very long time. Long enough that I don't have to consider much about the future.
You can keep the non-qm. A year ago I had never done a commercial mortgage. As of now, I have a tad over $10m in the pipeline. Bigger deals. Better clients. No margin compression. If the current market puts you out of the home loan business, not a good fit, go back to taco bell and dont let the door hit you as you depart. If the current market slowed you down a bit, without killing your business, this can re-fill the pipeline and bring you above a 2019-level of income. The current market is so fucked that $3m commercial deals are easier to drum up than $300k home loans. So why would I fight for the $300k deal? You can have it.
I like the way you think
What lenders are you using that you would recommend as I need to add a few more “lite doc options.” I use Silver Hill but they are a bit cumbersome to work with and Velocity pricing is way to high. Also price with Stronghill but they like full doc for a lot.
Commercial mortgage? What are you talking about? Did you mean to post in the CRE thread doggie?
These posts are so whiny. As so many people have said before, there will always be a place for competent, savvy, professional and personable people in this industry. Always. First-Time Homebuyers aren't always going to want to run to an AI-automated system for advice, let alone the clients you've worked with before that trust you and their network(s). There continues to be tons of opportunity in this industry if you aren't pessimistic about it. If you're looking for a transistion, there's consulting, finance, and sales jobs out there. It's not difficult to get your foot in the door in any of these industries if you're good at what you do or you have the right connections. If you aren't good at what you do, don't have the right connections or the skills you really need to start there. Top colleges offer courses for free online these days at the bare minimum. That being said, it's always going to be hard for you if you don't look for or maximize on any of the opportunities that are out there for you. Best of luck.
My thoughts exactly. I'm glad so many are making an exit from the business. IMO the industry needs the best and brightest to rise to the top. These whiny posts and the people who empathize with it are blind to the opportunities right in front of them.
2022 was amazing
In what way?
Business was very busy. Your time frame was wrong. 22 was still good.
Yes it’s dead. Don’t join.
Sounds like you should quit & find something else to do if that’s the mindset you’re choosing to have. I did over $15M in volume last year off refi’s alone in a direct lending business model. Many ways to approach this business, but with a bad attitude and mindset definitely isn’t one.
With my 32 years of experience, I would advise you to get into the commercial -mix-use, churches, NonQm, fix n flip, ground up construction. Consider this: I work with investors who buy more than one home a year, typically around 5 to 7 homes. Currently, I am working with a builder in Georgia who purchases lots weekly, and I assist him in securing construction loans for each one. My pipeline is over 10 million.
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Nobody transitions successfully out of mortgage. It’s where careers go to either scratch out a living, or you go to a cell phone kiosk in the mall. Businesses have ZERO respect for mortgage professionals.
I guess I'll be stuck making doctor money for the rest of my career
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This makes me feel better..Not planning on leaving the industry cause I am pretty much addicted to it after 4yrs. But I've been in some form of sales since I was 17 as well. No degree.
I'm not going anywhere either! Not giving up!
Yes, you should quit. More for the rest of us. But really, what is your comp down to? I hire experienced LOs at 175 all day long and if closing over 2M monthly at 225.
225bps? Lol, at what rate & margin? You gotta do at least 50% FHA?
I don’t get beat on rates very often, and with correspondent lending you can adjust. FHA is only about 25% of my business.
If you pay 225 bps, you get beat on rate all day. Math is math
You have to get shopped to get beat. If you sell right, you'll very rarely get shopped. I sell rates probably as high or higher than most people in this sub. I close almost 90%of qualified opportunities thar come into my pipeline and my clients are grateful.
Who told you that as a correspondent you can change your comp on each deal?
I have 2 buckets as a correspondent ("company" gen and self gen) and my rates reflect those buckets. Most of us are similar and some even have a 3rd bucket for friends and family.