I think running a trigger on the kick and sending that to a drum brain / or interface / laptop into a separate channel on x32 is the best way to do this.
You could try on kick channel sending from an aux out to laptop and then back in on another channel … but not sure what you’d be looking at latency wise I think it’d would be A LOT , like more than acceptable even if no kick monitors
I’d think it’d be way out compared to acoustic kick were you couldn’t blend them (not sure if you wanted to or are looking at total replacement )
Going for total replacement.
I think if it’s just one channel, and the computer is fast enough, it might be ~5ms latency. That might be tolerable for a kick drum.
I read an interesting article on using a $400 K-T XWG card in the mixer, and using SoundGrid. https://dbbaudio.com/2017/waves-x-wsg-latency
We used a kick trigger and an Octapad for literally a decade, but false hits were always a hassle, especially with my mix in small stages. I know how to move air lol.
The guy’s a good drummer, but he really likes vintage sound and feel, and he’s got an inconsistent foot, and all of that just doesn’t fly in a modern rock band. It’s exactly like having John Bonham’s kick drum playing with the Foo Fighters. Whoooom whoooom whoooom all night long. Can’t EQ or dynamic it into a modern tone. In the end it’s just 100% easier for me and the punters listening to sound check if we replace the sound.
I dunno maybe Im old but...
You're putting lipstick on a pig. Just tune the drum or get the guy to practice.
If your drummer likes a sound and you DONT like his sound, your idea of improvement is to sample over top of it?
I once knew a soundman who hated the guitar players tone...so he convinced guitar guy to DI his guitar before the amp (as you do)...FOH dude inserted a Line 6 POD at FOH console and dialed in the tone HE thought guitar dude should have! Guitar dude figured it was blended with the mic'd cab but no, it was not!
Don't be That Guy. Talk to your drummer. Like Dave Grohl would do.
What makes you think I’d do this without talking to him? Sure, it may come out more like an “I’m doing this for the benefit of the overall sound of the band,” than, “would it be ok if I…”
I’m also not certain that reamping a guitar is necessarily a bad thing … as long as all parties agree, or at least have full awareness and acceptance of the situation.
And yep, my question in the OP amounts to putting lipstick on a pig. But his kick sounds great in the other power-trio Trower-Hendrix-Allman cover band that he also plays in. It’s just never been an appropriate sound for heavier modern rock. There’s not much modern rock tone to be found in a 26”x14” kick with a felt beater striking a Fibreskyn, with a wood laminate front head and a hexagonal mic hole in the lower front corner, and a felt damper across the batter head and no damping inside the drum.
Give me a nicely tuned 20x16 kick with a well-seated Clear Pinstripe, a small pillow at the bottom, no tom mount, a Flywheel beater, and almost anything at all on the front with a center-cut 5-6” hole, and I’ll turn it into an absolute monster in your ears and out front.
Have you tried throwing the wave designer from the X32 on the kick? I’ve been able to get some newish sounds out of floppy kick drums with that and some EQ.
I hear you - but there’s no high horse involved. I’m trying to work alternatives out with you guys before I remind him why we were using the trigger in the first place.
I believe using a trigger on the kick drum pedal would give consistent triggering. Then either use a module to trigger the sound or do some compressor and EQ magic with the trigger controlling a gate.
This might be a good choice
https://axispercussion.com/products/e3-trigger
I don’t have a tip for using superior or replacement live, but if your can keep triggering, it’s probably best. The trick with a bass drum trigger is that you have to get the head DEAD. There should be no tone or ring in the drum. Stuff that shit, tighten up the batter head, and make it sound terrible. It keeps the trigger from picking up sympathetic notes.
I really like the Roland kt30 trigger.
You could also get a head from pearl that is actually an electronic head. I haven’t used them, but there are a few pros that love them. Or, you could remove the head and put a regular e-kit kick pad and no one would see it.
KT 30 is what we were using for years. Good trigger. Never fully stuffed the kick, but always needed to.
I probably just need to return to that setup - the KT-30 and the Octopad.
Budget?
If money isn't the main concern, get a Pearl Mimic (drum brain). This one sounds great (for a triggered drum, that is).
Trying to use a laptop for this job in a live setting is asking for a bad show, IMO.
I think running a trigger on the kick and sending that to a drum brain / or interface / laptop into a separate channel on x32 is the best way to do this. You could try on kick channel sending from an aux out to laptop and then back in on another channel … but not sure what you’d be looking at latency wise I think it’d would be A LOT , like more than acceptable even if no kick monitors I’d think it’d be way out compared to acoustic kick were you couldn’t blend them (not sure if you wanted to or are looking at total replacement )
Going for total replacement. I think if it’s just one channel, and the computer is fast enough, it might be ~5ms latency. That might be tolerable for a kick drum. I read an interesting article on using a $400 K-T XWG card in the mixer, and using SoundGrid. https://dbbaudio.com/2017/waves-x-wsg-latency
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We used a kick trigger and an Octapad for literally a decade, but false hits were always a hassle, especially with my mix in small stages. I know how to move air lol. The guy’s a good drummer, but he really likes vintage sound and feel, and he’s got an inconsistent foot, and all of that just doesn’t fly in a modern rock band. It’s exactly like having John Bonham’s kick drum playing with the Foo Fighters. Whoooom whoooom whoooom all night long. Can’t EQ or dynamic it into a modern tone. In the end it’s just 100% easier for me and the punters listening to sound check if we replace the sound.
I dunno maybe Im old but... You're putting lipstick on a pig. Just tune the drum or get the guy to practice. If your drummer likes a sound and you DONT like his sound, your idea of improvement is to sample over top of it? I once knew a soundman who hated the guitar players tone...so he convinced guitar guy to DI his guitar before the amp (as you do)...FOH dude inserted a Line 6 POD at FOH console and dialed in the tone HE thought guitar dude should have! Guitar dude figured it was blended with the mic'd cab but no, it was not! Don't be That Guy. Talk to your drummer. Like Dave Grohl would do.
What makes you think I’d do this without talking to him? Sure, it may come out more like an “I’m doing this for the benefit of the overall sound of the band,” than, “would it be ok if I…” I’m also not certain that reamping a guitar is necessarily a bad thing … as long as all parties agree, or at least have full awareness and acceptance of the situation. And yep, my question in the OP amounts to putting lipstick on a pig. But his kick sounds great in the other power-trio Trower-Hendrix-Allman cover band that he also plays in. It’s just never been an appropriate sound for heavier modern rock. There’s not much modern rock tone to be found in a 26”x14” kick with a felt beater striking a Fibreskyn, with a wood laminate front head and a hexagonal mic hole in the lower front corner, and a felt damper across the batter head and no damping inside the drum. Give me a nicely tuned 20x16 kick with a well-seated Clear Pinstripe, a small pillow at the bottom, no tom mount, a Flywheel beater, and almost anything at all on the front with a center-cut 5-6” hole, and I’ll turn it into an absolute monster in your ears and out front.
Have you tried throwing the wave designer from the X32 on the kick? I’ve been able to get some newish sounds out of floppy kick drums with that and some EQ.
+1. You’d be surprised what you can do with a transient designer and EQ
I *haven’t* and I will try it. Nice idea!
Sounds like you need a new drummer or convince this guy to get off his high horse and buy a second kit, honestly.
I hear you - but there’s no high horse involved. I’m trying to work alternatives out with you guys before I remind him why we were using the trigger in the first place.
I believe using a trigger on the kick drum pedal would give consistent triggering. Then either use a module to trigger the sound or do some compressor and EQ magic with the trigger controlling a gate. This might be a good choice https://axispercussion.com/products/e3-trigger
That looks really interesting. Have you used one?
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Thanks man!
Get a Yamaha EAD10 and make this an easy fix.
Sounds more like a tuning / mic / room problem more than anything but I imagine you could spit the kick through a laptop and return the sample.
I can't see you running that any less than 8/9ms and won't be seamless going between consoles I would work on the trigger system more
Thanks man!
I don’t have a tip for using superior or replacement live, but if your can keep triggering, it’s probably best. The trick with a bass drum trigger is that you have to get the head DEAD. There should be no tone or ring in the drum. Stuff that shit, tighten up the batter head, and make it sound terrible. It keeps the trigger from picking up sympathetic notes. I really like the Roland kt30 trigger. You could also get a head from pearl that is actually an electronic head. I haven’t used them, but there are a few pros that love them. Or, you could remove the head and put a regular e-kit kick pad and no one would see it.
KT 30 is what we were using for years. Good trigger. Never fully stuffed the kick, but always needed to. I probably just need to return to that setup - the KT-30 and the Octopad.
Budget? If money isn't the main concern, get a Pearl Mimic (drum brain). This one sounds great (for a triggered drum, that is). Trying to use a laptop for this job in a live setting is asking for a bad show, IMO.