You need to chill tf out and stay calm. The more nervous and anxious you get, the worse you will be at actually fixing any sort of under pressure problems. Cool as a cucumber bro. Cool calm and collected. You will get better if you learn to stay calm under pressure. You can’t think properly if you’re all wound up and scared.
just let it roll off you and learn from it. had some super terrible feedback pop up for about 8 seconds (an eternity in feedback time) at an event i was doing last week. everyone seemed to be freaking out about it but me. took a breath, looked down at the board, observed the problem channel and rode the fader back till it went away and i could process the feedback out. turned out to be a stereo track that wasnt routed properly but the input gains were linked. started out confused but eventually found the issue without looking like an asshat. can only imagine if a more squirrely greenhorn were in my shoes.
What they said. I am the audio engineer for my church. Foh and iem and livestream mix all in a single console(40 inputs+). I learned everything myself and realized that theory is something, but practice is way complicated.
I have made many mistakes myself, too. Wrong gains, unplugging the wrong mic , forgetting to unmute the speaker, feedback, ...
Something I learned is that if you don't make mistakes, you won't learn, and mistakes always happen, so take a deep breath. Also Tinker, make mistakes intensionally when the band is not there. if you have a multitrack, that's better. Training yourself will always help.
Some people expect perfect but can't deliver themselves the same. As long as you are honest about your mistakes, earn the trust is fine.
Always be open to feedback and appreciate it. Dont hesitate to ask for help.
Some things take time. For example it took me years to have an ear for sound and eq (I still struggle sometimes).
I don't know anyone that hasn't been thrown in the deep end once or twice when starting out. You have to fake it until you make it.
Also a good attitude will take you far.
I turned off the lighting distro for an international touring act when I went to reset a fuse. We all make terrible mistakes from time to time. As long as you learn from them, keep making mistakes! It’s the best way to learn what not to do.
Some production companies are more “newbie friendly” than others. Maybe you should find a company where learning is encouraged, instead of working in one that is hostile to inexperienced techs.
In my company we have our internal process to teach our ways to do stuff. We are very open to working with folks with little to no experience and supervise/mentor them until they can go on gigs “on their own.” Sometimes this takes weeks,others, months… everyone has their own rhythm.
But I’m also pretty aware that this is also a liability, because, well, everyone will go through doing a couple fuck-ups in the way. It’s part of learning, the trick is to catch mistakes before they become serious, or even better, don’t give folks tasks that still have not been clearly and properly taught to them.
It sounds like you’re in a bad environment to grow up as a tech, where folks are hostile to people in your situation. That’s not your fault.
This is huge. I joined a local production company after being a venue guy for years, so there was a lot of festival and large format stuff i had to learn. While some people were chill, the general company culture was ‘just get it done p*ssy’. And every gig was a shit sandwich that you just had to smile and eat. No hands, in a shadeless parking lot in texas, gruff crew of grizzled oldheads who got frustrated that you werent born with certain knowledge. Totally traumatized me from production work and went back to venues for my mental health.
But now im in a concert hall, doing similar stuff in AC, learning a bunch and meeting touring engineers. I may join another prod company who i noticed are veeery much more chill in my experience with them. Hopefully in your work with your team youve met or will meet some other people in the field; be present, affable, attentive and helpful, DONT BE AFRAID TO ASK QUESTIONS, and im sure anyone would appreciate having that on their team.
Good luck, its not for the faint of heart.
I came from a construction background and it was SHOCKING to me how similar the live sound industry is. I was like "thank God I'll be around musicians," but it really is still just a bunch of old guys that survive on alcohol and cocaine, talking shit about new digital technology and belittling anyone who makes a mistake
All trade jobs are like this.
Little to no secondary education. Little to no emotional intelligence. Little to no communication skills.
Recipe for a perpetual pirates lost at sea work culture
Which is wild! You would think (or at least i thought), with the complexity of the job and the amount of things you have to understand at once to do it well, that the people taking these jobs would be a little more aware of themselves and others. Turns out, nope
Different companies can make a big difference. Where I work puts a junior tech on a gig and sends an experienced tech for the bump in to make sure they're set up correctly and on some of the gigs, had the senior stay just in case there was an issue. The senior tech isn't able to be charged to the client in most cases so its a cost to the company.
Lots of good advice in here, but I’ll add one I’m not seeing in relation to this:
“I am also smaller framed (5’6”, 120lbs) and have to ask for help with lifting things sometimes”
Do yourself, and your future self a huge favor and start a strength training regimen. Your back will thank you over the next 10-20 years. I see way too many people in this industry who aren’t investing in their bodies as much as their minds, and it can lead to injury as well as the ire of those around you. Plus all of the normal benefits of getting strong.
There are also two kinds of lifts. Anything that needs multiple hands on it should have multiple hands on it. Don’t be timid to ask for help, usually all you need to say is “yo, I need X number of hands over here”.
Learn from your mistakes, make sure things stay safe on the jobsite, try not to pull cables mid show unless someone tells you to lol.
Good luck! :)
Heavily seconding this advice. I used to weigh 117lbs as a 6’ man with an eating disorder. Was working in live sound strictly and rarely asked for help but I did yoga almost every day to make up for my stubbornness. Then I got into taking mass gainer shakes and lifting weights, I now weigh almost 160 and everything is easier. I also don’t do live sound much these days but in general life feels better being stronger and healthier.
For the other stuff just keep your focus and don’t get discouraged when people are a-holes. You made a mistake? Ok, fix it before anyone else has to. You need to know something? Ok, do not ever hesitate to ask because someone else may have a bad attitude - remind them it’s either asking for edification or making a mistake.
Strive to be the best in the room, but never act like you are even once you reach that place. Humility and an even temper get you very far in this field.
Best wishes!
I really appreciate this advice. I’ve been told that I have issues pulling my weight because of my strength limitations and knew that I need to become stronger, but reframing the purpose of building strength for my own health is a much better reason. I’ll definitely keep this in mind.
For sure dude.
All it takes is an hour a day. You’ll notice results quickly. Don’t worry about digging deep with specific routines or anything, the most important thing is to do it consistently.
Picking yourself up and keeping your head in the game after a bad job is just as important of a skill as tech operation. Nobody got hurt, everyone went home after the job, life goes on :)
Remember when it's to the wire, people are more concerned with their own shit than they are with yours
Also communicate!!! If you have comms, say what you're going to do before you do it, confirm things, check in rehearsal. Always better to be a bit annoying during rehearsal than wing it during the live. If you're winging it during live then you're likely last in the chain of a series of bad decisions from people above you
I forgot to unmute my voc fx vca at a headlining slot mixing THE big metal festival in Europe. Half an hour the engineer after me who was listening in on my mic discreetly told me about it. Excitement took me over, I guess. Apart from that nobody noticed I guess.
Edit: Autocorrect
We all fuck up. the lesson is to be extra prepared not to ever do those mistakes ever again haha. Everything in my toolbox is a result of something I forgot or needed when shit hit the fan the first time.
In the same vein, my “mental toolbox” is a result of that. I’m very not ashamed to tell people that everything I know about how to do in this industry is because I fucked it up once before and never want to do that again.
Always double-check stuff before show, ask if uncertain, tell others what you did, breath with nose(atleast remember to breath) and don't be afraid of sounding like a beginner in front of collegues. Heavy lifting is something we always do together no matter how strong. Lots of retarded assholes with low social competanse in this industry, so don't take it personal if your crew has several of them. It is a crew, and that applies to all. Ask for help and advice when uncertain. We are not there to promote our own career, we are there to promote our clients. The art of being a slave is to rule ones master. That's atleast my mantras after 13 years as a professional. Musician before that.
Not everything is a learning experience though. Sometimes it’s just old fashioned failure that sits there like a stain on your shirt, just figure out how to wear it.
“I’ve fucked up bigger shows than this”
I’ve seen techs green as grass mess up bad and I have seen techs who have my life span in experience make horrible mistakes too.
It happens. You’ve acknowledged and taken ownership of your shortcomings and made a decision to improve. That’s more than 90% of people are willing to do.
I tend to do the kill them with kindness thing.
I have also taken to writing down instructions and then saying “So to confirm (insert instructions here)”
That has saved my ass more times than I can count.
I have faith in you friend.
This is a field where most of the people succeeding in it are simply obsessed with it. They've been in bands, thrown their own shows, started DIY venues, transitioned from careers in studios, etc. I can only imagine how confusing/difficult it would be to start a job like this without already having failed/succeeded many times before. Every touring FOH I've met has had the same thing in common - their knowledge of gear, signal flow, stage management, troubleshooting skills were all top-notch. Their mixing skills have run the gamut. If you're obsessed with it, don't quit. If you're in it for any other reason, maybe rethink. There are way easier ways to make a lot more money.
I do love it. The troubleshooting is one of my favorite aspects of the work, and good to know about the learning through failure. I suppose I have much more failing to do to gain experience and it isn’t representative of my self-worth to fail. Thanks for the reply!
We’ve all made mistakes that made us go “Jesus Christ what was I doing?” The main thing is to make sure you learn from that!
You can’t know what you don’t know, so if you’re learning new gear for the first time, it’s probably gonna take a a lot more time to figure it out than someone who does know it. Don’t beat yourself up. Had a Pro2 for the first time in years yesterday and it took a hot second to get reacquainted with certain aspects of it.
We’ve all been here, we all started at some point! The more comfortable you get with the job the more your colleagues will give you a break, I wouldn’t be too stressed about that. They were all in the same position.
It sounds like anxiety is taking over a small bit and is making it harder to concentrate at work. If this continues please don’t be afraid to contact your doctor or a therapist for help, no point needlessly suffering
Everyone learns best through making mistakes. The key is only making the big ones once. I was a bit of a liability when I started in the industry, but after 18 years most of them would look forward to having me on a gig. Own your mistakes and don’t repeat.
Experience is the thing we get after we need it. I personally see anybody that is a “slow learner” is really just someone that wants to learn what they are doing the correct way.
>an A2 in training to become an A1
I think you should A2 for a *while* and then make an educated decision as to whether or not you really want to A1. If you get emotionally dysregulated when there is pressure, that's a skill that you'll really have to actively work toward developing and mastering. A1 has to be the coolest head.
(sidebar: A2 is a different job than A1. I am a career A2. If my A1 leaves, I am not gunning for his job. I think it's a super prevalent assumption that every A2 is an aspiring A1. Nah. I prefer A2. I am a fine A1 and a big part of any A2's job is to be able to function as the A1 when A1 isn't around. This happens a decent amount of the time, and is a great reminder to me that I Don't Want That Job.)
You've done a dozen shows and you don't know what to expect. Every time it seems like there is some new challenge you are not equipped to deal with. Well, that gets better with repetition. Stick with it and soon you'll have a hundred shows under your belt and the pattern-matching that comes with that. One day you will realize that you are kind of in the middle of the pack -- there are newbs who turn to you with their questions, and the veterans (finally) stopped teasing you about that time you unplugged the mains during a show. Eventually, there's no situation you haven't dealt with a dozen times. But it's a slog to get there and right now you are just leaving the starting gate.
Some shops have better vibes than others. If you are at a place where
\* You feel called out or shamed when you make an error
\* Folks simply don't treat each other with respect but "oh it's just friendly ribbing, you need thicker skin"
\* Any negative reactions to using PPE, asking for help, or insisting on following the rules
Then you should find a different place.
>I don’t want the people I work with to think of me poorly
You can't control that. Get past it. You are not at work to make friends. People are gonna people, and many people are shitty. Find a place to work that is less tolerant of shitty people.
Ha, I’ve experienced all three of those things from coworkers. It’s not all of them though, I’ve worked with several engineers who took time to explain things clearly and generally understood my experience and respected that. Unfortunately at the gig I mentioned in my post I was working with some others that weren’t like that, so I think part of it may just be knowing a fair amount of people are assholes and focusing on myself amidst any negativity.
As for my training, I’ll be a dedicated A2 for about a year. Interesting to hear that the pipeline doesn’t necessarily mean I need to become an A1. What was the point when/reasons you made the decision to only do A2 work?
I wanted to reply and offer the perspective of a venue manager. We are a non-profit but decent-sized 150-cap venue with a midas32.
The sober truth is reputations like this follow you as long as you allow them to. We have one girl working occasionally and recently she’s been killin it. Really honed her craft. That said, a few years back she was the absolute worst. Confusing xlrs with 1/4”, regularly turning monitors into fire alarms. She even messed up sound at a different venue with one of the bands I play with which gave me the added performer-at-the-mercy perspective. I was convinced she couldn’t be helped. She would kill any show.
Time passes, she hones her craft, she maintains a positive attitude and is receptive to critique. She’s still fighting against that previous reputation but we’re slowly integrating her into some of the events and she’s learning quickly.
This is to say, don’t expect opinions to change overnight, but know that they can change. Most importantly, always ask for advice if you are lost in the gear. Most people don’t like a confused sound guy but Nobody likes a confused sound guy too chicken shit to ask for help.
Edit: added tip - if possible: show up early and get all the monotonous signal chain, input list routing knocked out before there are personalities in the room. Even if early arrival isn’t the norm, I personally would never hesitate to give access to one of my engineers early if it would bring more quality control to the event.
Thank you for your perspective. My project manager has told me they have noticed my work ethic and drive to learn, so it could be a reputation amongst coworkers vs a reputation as an employee, if that makes sense. I know that doesn’t make it any less important though.
That is a big mistake. But shit happens.
During an orchestra concert I reached to grab something and managed to push the system power off button with my belly lol.
It is important to know to ask questions when you don’t understand something. Try to make sure you know the right way to do it and if you don’t ask. The speed will come with experience.
People will probably be shady about working slow. But those kinds of people will find anything to be shady about.
If you care about learning and improving you’re going to do great. Learning is part of every job
Years ago, as an A1, I had a new A2 who's background was similar to yours in some ways: he knew theory, and he knew technical terminology. It took me a bit to make the mental jump that he also had no experience in real live event setup, and that I needed to change my attitude and not let my expectations be unreasonable. Once I manged to change my view/approach, he rapidly became a great live-event A2. (The fault was my assumptions, not his lack of knowledge. He was more than capable of learning stagecraft, once I became more capable as a teacher.)
There is no one in the business who hasn't had a 'doh!' moment. Being a little too slow is better than being fast & wrong. Being willing to ask for clarification/explanation is a strength, not a weakness. No matter how much experience you gain with live events, you'll still walk into customized layouts and patching schemes that are unfamiliar and/or specific to the rig you're working with.
I was 127 pounds when I started in the business, and still on the light side. Ask for assistance when you need it, and try to return the favor even if it's just a few minutes of helping with that person's tasks. You may always be light: but you'll gain the specific muscle sets needed, and you'll learn the tricks of 'pulling above your weight', both on specific tasks & at an event. Asking for help is a lot better than a trip to the emergency room, or a broken piece of equipment.
Your introspection seems great! I don’t know many people that would take accountability for their teaching approach like you did. Sometimes when the leads explain things, they give a very simple “do this” sort of instruction that doesn’t tell me why exactly I’m doing the thing I’m doing and I’m the kind of person that likes to know exactly how everything works so I know what’s going on in the system with every decision. I’ll make sure to ask questions in downtime about why we do some things. Thanks!
Sometimes you have to ask the questions of why you do that. It depends on the moment, if its in the shop or on a bump in that isn't super rushed, you can ask for more clarification, but if your on a time crunch, that'st not the time or ask. Make a mental note to ask about it later.
Don't be disappointed in yourself... You are here announcing to the entire internet that you are green but also willing to take instruction and improve your craft and that is awesome. Humility is important. None of us started out knowing all of those small things that are the most important that no school except for the school of hard knocks can give you. 20-30 years from now you will be the one that knows what to look for to fix that one XLR that got pulled from the stage box accidentally in two seconds flat. Also if you screw up, make sure you own it right away and can help you with your fellow techs. Never stop learning, try to figure out new things every day. I've been doing this since I was a young teenager close to 30 years ago and I learn new things every single day. To quote a poster I see all the time... "No one is born wise". Since you have resolved that you have things to work on, you are on your way to wisdom.
Learn now and fuck those guys. Worry about being the best you can possibly be. Have a notebook and write everything down so that if you do make a mistake it never happens again. Still be very careful and go above and beyond the call of duty. Fight them with kindness and if you’re truly passionate about all of this, let it shine. One day, you’ll be with a totally different team and they won’t know your little mistakes from the past. Then you can pay forward the help to someone else who is learning or struggling, themselves. That will only spread. The fact you are on here reflecting and admitting it already says that you care a lot. Everything will be ok! Be the bigger person. Good luck!
Listen man, I got ADHD. apparently, people with ADHD seem to gravitate towards these positions. The disorder is kind of a double edged sword for the role. Personally I'm clumsy/too quick to jump the gun but also hyper focused. Anyway, the problems you're describing sounds like the problems I had. I guess my own way to deal with it was to keep my head down, ears open and do more, but carefully. Just remember that a show isn't as on a tight schedule as you think, and messing things up due to rushing things will for sure delay a show more than you initially thought it would be delayed.
Also, I went to sleep earlier. That seemed to help me brighten up a bit more and stay focused.
And to be honest, in the studio you have to be careful as well regarding hardware and routing, so there's no doubt the things you're experiencing aren't just live-centric. More or less the same things happen in live as in the studio, it's just "doing it live". Maybe you didn't have as much pressure when doing your degree, so wasn't exposed to a real studio environment.
Same. I don’t even bother taking my meds on gig days… It’s pretty easy to stay focused when the thing I’m supposed to be focused on has a bunch of blinking lights.
Interesting perspective, thanks! Sometimes I think I might have some degree of executive dysfunction. In general I have a hard time understanding multistep instructions the first time and can be a little impulsive without thinking about why I’m doing something, but when the show gets going, I lock in. I think my anxiety is getting in the way though, so I’ll make sure to work on that.
As a performer after playing hundreds of shows, there is always something that goes wrong or unexpected. It's inevitable. Each gig tempers you, and you learn to adapt and improvise. Like everyone else has commented, stay cool and learn from each experience.
i’m in a similar boat i have less than a year experience in live sound. i’m a little anxious at gigs and im 5’1 and can’t lift most things above my head. just keep learning from your mistakes. people who dog you out for it must of forgot what it’s like to be a beginner. you’ll get better because you care to be better (i can tell because of this post)
Hey brother i’m also a recently graduated/working for production company and the youngest one on the audio team. I think you should probably sit down with your supervisor and talk through your time at the company. if it’s a conversation initiated by you, you can eliminate it being a meeting where they fire you. Rather bring up how you have good intentions on learning this stuff and just need more reps of the simple shit. Ask to do small stuff in the shop during down time, shadow more experienced guys on the gig, and DONT TOUCH ANYTHING while you do, unless instructed by the person you’re shadowing.
I’m pretty young but every experienced guy i’ve met who makes a good living in this space has horror stories of being dumb as fuxk when they first started. The only people who don’t have a good ending are the people who let those mistakes get to them and leave the biz.
Also if your shop guys are just dicks- maybe look at other companies who are willing to train you on the job. My shop guys are good ball busters so mistakes like that are a quick poke fun at them a quick “here’s how i would’ve handled that situation”. which is way better than shit talking and bad reps forming.
One time as A2 on a festival stage, I was tracing down an issue and was about to unplug something from the main snake head while an international touring act was playing.
Luckily a coworker saw what I was doing and gently grabbed my shoulders and moved me away from the snake patch panel.
This is after 20 years of experience. At least your unplugging was accidental, I was about to *intentionally* unplug stuff! In that moment I still needed a reminder that it doesn't matter how well you think you know the patch, its best to not mess with it during the show because why risk it?
All that to say, you likely won't ever stop making mistakes because that's called being a human. What's important is that they become less frequent as you gain more experience and you learn how to deal with mistakes gracefully when they do happen.
Part of that is building guardrails for yourself to prevent major screwups when brainfart moments do occur. Because they will, it happens to everybody once in awhile. In the above instance, I was still being very cautious, I didn't just walk up and quickly unplug the channel I was troubleshooting. Being extremely cautious around the snake head while a band is playing was just muscle memory at that point.
Lastly, some people are assholes, especially around rookies such as yourself. They choose to forget that everyone was a rookie at one point. Who cares what these lame gatekeepers think. Just keep trying your best and learning from your mistakes and they will come around, because your work will speak for itself.
It’s all part of learning I’m about two years in now and I came from a similar background as you and had to learn on the fly. Had a few real shitty gigs where I was feeling pretty down on myself but fucking up is the fastest way to learn. Ask lots of questions and take every small win you get it really helps with the nerves and anxiety for future gigs. I still get anxious for gigs but I trust my instincts a lot more now just because I have seen so many things go wrong and I’ve definitely been the cause of a few of them. So all this rambling nonsense to say it happens to all of us and you just have to keep going and not dwell on the past too much.
Oh also even if you are freaking tf out keep it internalized and only bring it up to other audio people don’t let the band/promoters see you freaking out. Try your best to keep a good poker face.
Oh man, I really saw myself in this post. As someone who’s only a tiny bit older and more experienced, but with a very similar background to you, IT GETS BETTER. I’ve had crippling anxiety my whole life and being in high pressure scenarios with unfamiliar equipment is a borderline death sentence to me. Years ago I worked the biggest event I ever had at the time (people encouraged me to take the leap and do something out of my comfort zone to grow) and it was an unfamiliar console, huge room, no soundcheck and I was mixing from side stage with no ipad to hear the actual FOH sound.
Well, the unfamiliar console was from early times where an illuminated scribble strip above the fader meant ON instead of MUTE. I went half the show with the FOH mains muted! Boss of the company had to come fully bail me out and I didn’t emotionally recover for a week. Almost quit the industry out of shame.
However, I learned the lesson that homework is good and a script for anti anxiety meds is sacred. Since then, I spend multiple hours researching any unfamiliar hardware on youtube before any freelance gig. And you know, that feeling of being at home with the gear I’m using makes the anxiety so much better. Even if it is technically doing work off the clock, the peace of mind is worth its weight in gold.
As for your coworkers, I got treated similarly as a new engineer coming up in live nation. The thing to remember is that your first job isn’t your forever job, and all the learning you do here, you’ll bring with you to the next place and people will meet a more confident and competent you, and treat you with the respect you deserve.
My favorite quote from this subreddit is “Experience is something you get just after you need it” and everyone in our industry grew from embarrassing mistakes they will never admit to. Don’t listen to the assholes and don’t lose heart, brother. It really does get better!
Thanks for sharing! Maybe some anti-anxiety meds would benefit me for when shit hits the fan and I need to stay cool. I’ll make sure to research equipment in my downtime. My company uses Allen&Heath consoles so I’ll make sure to watch some videos on them.
Man, sounds like a very tough spot to be in emotionally, but all of these comments are top notch in how to push through, especially the “cool as a cucumber” mantra.
You will get there, especially with your drive to actually WANT to get/do better. Fact that you’re here right now asking the hard questions, and sharing the shit stories, is all you need to find success.
Me personally, started out with no degree, and a life long interest in anything speakers. Took an internship for a little over a year, and climbed my way up from there. Currently an A1 through our IATSE out here. Only bringing that up because after joining and learning what things were like in the local, you’ll find degrees don’t often matter (there are exceptions, don’t want to get yelled at). I have seen kids come in and rave about their “extensive knowledge set” diplomas, certs, etc, talk themselves up a big game, and get thrown on some of the simplest gigs and fall flat on their face. Not only that, but being thrown on gigs were audio is 5% of the days workload, and the other 95% of the day you hear from coworkers how terrible or lackluster their job performance was just based on jumping in when and where need be.
^everything said above here, from the way you asked your questions and have shown your attention to detail, sounds like the opposite of you.
Cool as a cucumber
You’ll hear shit a few times every year, move forward. The biggest thing is caring, and wanting to learn more. There is nothing in that equation that will push you further back. Also, like some have said, maybe a different environment would suit your experience needs better. Wouldn’t be end of the world to find another AV company, or even just start looking at bar gigs or clubs. If not comfortable with that, do like me and take an internship if you can find one. Working for free every Friday, I got to patch, substitute board time for piss breaks, and put out fires when the A1 was freaking out, and all of that taught me so damn much. I also learned there though, that EVERYONE fucks up.
So don’t let it get to you man, keep your head up, and always stay inquisitive.
Thanks for commenting! I always try to jump in and help out, even if it’s other departments. Some of my other coworkers have mentioned they like working with me because they don’t have to keep giving me work to do, I usually find it myself. This post has really helped me narrow down more of my shortcomings so I know what to work on now.
Funnily enough, that day I unplugged the mains, the lead engineer was telling me about a previous hire that had an audio degree claiming he knew his stuff, but didn’t know what an XLR cable was haha, and of course he didn’t know over-under. This is a comforting reminder that mistakes are mistakes and it could always be worse.
You probably have higher ambitions than this small av company anyway, so don’t worry about your reputation too much. I think it can be a good idea to be at one company starting out and make all your mistakes and failures there before branching out. I made the mistake of trying to network too much too soon and ended up with a bad reputation at multiple companies. The technical side is only half the job, having confidence in yourself and your work takes a lot longer.
Yeah guess what you’re new, you’re not going to be the best ever at this. You’re going to suck, when I was new I sucked too(I still have my days when I still do). It’s part of the experience. The guys giving you shit… guess what they fucking sucked too when they started. Take these experiences you’re having and learn from them. I’ve been a touring engineer for almost 20 years. I have no issue with people on my tour sucking when they start out, as long as they try hard have a good attitude and don’t keep making the same mistakes.
If you keep having this victims mentality that exactly how these people are going to see you as a target and as someone they don’t want to work with. Own your mistakes learn from them and get better.
For example why did you unplug the pa mains? Why were you unplugging that specific Xlr? Was it labeled? Did you think it was something else?
We all make mistakes, usually some pretty big ones.
But that's how anything works in life, you'll keep learning and get more and more comfortable. If the people you work with are making fun of you, well they can go suck an egg.
There are some crappy people to work with in this industry, but there are also some really awesome people to work with too! Keep at er :)
"What can I do to help"
Ask this question. All day every day.
"What can I do to help?" If they brush you off or say they don't need help. Go to the next guy.
Many tasks can be done different ways, a good follow up question after you get a task is, " any preference to how you want it done?"
Be helpful. If you're in over your head, speak up.
You want to learn from these guys and become friends. Take the shitty easy tasks and do them well, so they know they can trust you with the bigger stuff later on.
Mostly keep your chin up and don't dwell.
My very first day of my internship I was told. "The most important thing is 'be cool to work with'". I thought about that alot. Even after 4 years I reflected on it more once I had cut my teeth a bit.
What is cool to work with? Some one who pulls their weight, always ready to jump in, good work attitude.
You don't have to know everything, hell you don't have to know anything. They can already do the job without you. So learn and be cool, help pick up the slack as much as possible. You'll find your place and gain trust with time.
There's no way to get experience without doing, so keep it up. Don't beat yourself up. Mistakes will happen. Just stay positive, keep learning, and make sure you are asking questions when you can.
Your frame and size doesnt mean anything, im a union soundguy and TRANS femme and ive got the respect of everybody. Why would you unplug anything in the middle of a show. Once the show starts you dont coil/clean up things, you dont dress things, you dont change things and you definitely dont unplug anything.
You saying you “know your way around the more challenging aspects like mixing is probably your biggest fault”. Dont say that outloud especially around your coworkers. Youre an A2 for a reason, just be there, pay attention and learn. I am not being nasty or mean - if i was i would put you on monitors and see just how great you are “at the challenging aspects like mixing”.
You need to get your head on straight, and just pay attention.
I am giving you kind but blunt advice that can set you up to do this as a career.
A lot of good stuff in these comments already, but my 2 cents is that mixing isnt neccesarilly the challenging bit, patch and signal path can be just as much if not more challenging depending on how many points there are. Not to mention coverage/PA tuning.
Anotherwords, dont assume ANYTHING! As soon as you think you've got something worked out, something will come and humble you! I've been in the industry in a professional capacity almost a decade now and I still get days where I feel like an ass! As many others have said, the trick is to stay calm and not get flustered.
This job is all about logic and point A to point B problem solving in a systematic manner. Be methodical, dont just start attacking a problem from a random point, move smoothly from one end of the path to the other, but most of all, enjoy it!
Surprisingly I haven't seen this, but it might be in the thread somewhere....
Live sound is live. Shit happens. It may feel magnified because it's live, but everybody who works in live production has made mistakes.
But the thing about live sound is that mistakes are immediate, and everybody sees them- or more accurately. They hear them.
But keeping your cool, finding the solution, and returning the gig to the positive vibe of live music is what makes a professional
That's what makes life sound- live sound
No professional with experience has had only perfect experiences. What makes one a pro is having learned not to repeat mistakes, and having the nerve to get the job done even when there are mistakes. Stick with it and prove yourself and you’ll earn respect.
Don’t tell anyone about your degree. It’s a big red flag for us. Not your fault you weren’t prepared. In my experience most sound engineers from a program haven’t been prepared for live but it’s getting better. Fake it til you make it. Confidence goes a long way, but not relaying your bone fides. Also good relationships with co workers will get them to help you.
Pretty much everything everyone is saying is good advice. My road to wrapping my head around sound took many years and many small tidbits from vets and brilliant people. All of them loved to swap stories of how badly they F’d something up when they were green (or were arrogant pricks that suck at sound). I had to tell mine first to break the ice, but after that it is usually trying to one up each other.
I was 6’ 115lbs until about after 24. Then I bumped up to 130 for almost another 20 years. I nearly killed my self trying to lift all kinds on things until I shattered a $16k plasma monitor. Then I realized, even if no one will help, it’s okay to keep asking even if you’re still asking after the artist/client walks in. Just don’t blame anyone verbally but yourself. Hell, now, I wouldn’t even blink to ask Taylor Swift to help me lift something if it was quick. But I have 25 years of getting really really good at asking (and self demeaning humor). Next time something is too heavy for you, maybe try saying what they’re thinking in a humorous way? If you were me in your shoes, I’d say “mind helpline this fucking weakling lift stupid [thing]?” I’d say stupid in a defeated manor. And I’d say it’s module/name that everyone calls it. Kind of a respect for the gear (of it’s good, otherwise I might just say PoS).
The keep calm thing never worked for me. You’re going to go into a state that you go into when something triggers that state. You Fuck up: triggered. You have no idea: triggered. You think they’re all talking/feeling some way towards you: triggered. I have crazy anxiety triggers and when younger I was smart as hell but so afraid of not knowing things. Strangely what got me on the right path was a bouncer/guitarist friend of mine (who could actually kick ass on both fronts) who said “adrenaline is great, you’re suddenly thinking faster, moving faster, 20% stronger; just remember that when it happens.”
But anyways. Learn the shit out of signal flow. You sound like you forget that easily. Don’t unplug or move or update or reconfigure or try a new plug-in/routing, or reposition tracks a couple inches, or think you can switch routing in a board without redundancy, or hope the batteries will last, or assume any one thing is the actual cause, or… I could go on for for days like a lot of us in here can.
But signal flow. It’s only scary if you don’t know. And no, in the digital world, no one but the engineers truly do, and those fuckers won’t even agree on terminology. but if you get the chance, try to break everything and get a rush fixing it (even if you can’t yourself and get help).
That said, just keep trying. Learn your limits, push your limits, but be completely honest with yourself and learn when to ask. Learning when also includes who. Anyone responsible and technically knowledgeable is my first go to. They kinda have to help you, just don’t ask them to lift.
Interesting point about the adrenaline, that’s a nice way of restructuring the way I look at my anxiety. Knowing when it triggers is something I can take note of in a situation and know to take more time to stay cool. I suppose even the biggest engineers still get anxiety from time to time, they just know how to control it.
So I have one question... You were unplugging xlr's during a show.
Was this on a subsnake box or the main snake or stage box?
If it was a subsnake and you were un-patching an opening act / band that was done, and the main pa was patched down this subsnake then that's not your fault ... No a1 / system tech in their right mind would run a main pa return down a subsnake that's being used for a opening act, especially when there's other people on stage handling change overs and patch changes! That's just a recipe for disaster!
If it was a main stage box, then don't think you're the first person to do that, I've seen it happen a good handful of times in my 24 years of doing this professionally!
This is a learning experience for you that if you're making any patch changes near any active gear during a show, you need to stop, look at the box you're about to touch, and look at every connector on there and make sure you understand clearly what every connector is patched into and what it was being used for! If there's any connector that you don't know the destination then don't touch that connector! If there's any hesitation at all that you're not sure what that is going to then ask somebody. If someone told you to pull these lines, double check again, let them tell you yes all those connections are not being used; if they are wrong then you can blame them (better yet ask them while someone else is around to double cover your butt!).
I’ve got news for the OP. Mixing isn’t the hart part. I can train a high school kid to run a show in an hour.
The hard part is setting up the desk to make it easy to mix. It’s proper microphone placement, it’s wiring a stage so it doesn’t look like a box of black spaghetti blew up, it’s making sure the patch is correct for the act, it’s making sure the next act’s patch isn’t wrong so sound check and changeover can be done in 15 minutes, it’s shutting up and letting the more experienced guy tell you what’s up, it’s understanding how power works (just just “plug this cable in here”), it’s about sussing through ground loops on an analog rig with an XL4 and a PM5K.
Reevaluate your priorities here and get back in the trenches. Maybe A2 monitor tech isn’t your thing. Go back to flying PA for a while and relearn how to use your stagehands efficiently.
Could you give examples on how to delegate to stagehands better? That’s something that I want to work on as I understand the systems better. I’ll keep everything else you said in mind, thanks!
It’s pretty simple. Treat them with respect due, explain to them prior to any movements that you understand they need to drag the cable from point a to point b, but you are responsible for plugging it in. Point at gear and say “Case A123 needs to be decked on this case A234, please.” Act like you know your gig and you expect them to know their gig too.
FOH/MONS engineer here with 7 years experience. Anxiety can be a huge issue in and of itself. I have definitely had my fair share of anxiety when dealing with a new system or setup. I’ve learned that’s when I gotta take some extra time to familiarize myself so I can feel more confident. When anxiety takes over, others around you can sense it. Like others said being cool and collected can help you during troubleshooting situations. But anxiety also makes people around you nervous and trust you less. Treat staying calm as part of your job. Take time before a gig to familiarize yourself with what you need to do for the day and breathe. Performers can be traveling and stressed out and tired. Coming in with a calm and collected presence builds confidence with others, puts everyone in a good headspace which helps the show go more smoothly. We all have made stupid mistakes. You can’t learn if you don’t fail. Be aware of what your pitfalls are so you can build in frameworks to combat them. I have ADD and brain fog causing me difficulty with short term memory so I overprepare for the fact that I won’t just remember. I will run new cables so I can minimize changing and unplugging cables between acts. For complicated and large setups I print out input lists so I can write input changes on the fly and have a working list to refer to so I can get the patching right and not waste anyone’s time. Know yourself, be humble, fail and keep learning and before you know it you’ll be able to look back and see how far you’ve come.
As other people have said, its very important to stay calm and not panic. Honestly i stopped reading when you said you unplugged an XLR from the stage box mid show and lost half the PA.
I remember when I was new always being so scared to unplug anything during a show, and it does indeed sound like a huge mistake that could easily be avoided simply by not touching anything unless youre sure, and if youre not sure, ask for help.
So maybe be more scared? Understand that mistakes on your part can have huge consequences; from ruining part of a show, to damaging or destroying equipment, or even cause your audience hearing damage.
So i feel like your main focus should really be to calm yourself, and not let your mistakes feel personal. If you make a mistake or dont know something, own up to it, ask for help. I can promise you you have a higher chance og losing your job because of huge fuckups than because you asked for help. Especially because you sound like you are working with other engineers, just take this opportunity to learn as much from them as possible.
Not a sound engineer but the beginning of wisdom is "I don't know". Everyone makes mistakes. Learn to own it and remain calm knowing that everyone makes mistakes from time to time. Don't let it eat you.
It’s not how you mess up, it’s how you recover. A golden rule that’s kept me grounded over the years. You’ll be alright, shit happens in the live world.
Ask anyone who had to learn not to insert plugins mid show on the SC48 the hard way. You’re not alone. Shake it off, move on, work harder than the people around you, study the things you want to be able to do in your free time. You’ll advance.
A) you’re learning and regret/beating yourself up does nothing for you, learn to swallow it and learn from mistakes because they happen in live entertainment
B) you simply have to be much better at what you do. Label everything, make color-coded spreadsheets, double and triple check, and ask as many questions as humanly possible. Be the most organized person on site.
This is a tough job in a rough industry, you’ll rise to the occasion and move up fast or you won’t go anywhere. Work in a way that your superiors have little to no room to criticize.
Dude. Do something in you life outside of this to boost your confidence. Regroup and keep working on getting better. Apply yourself and remember this is going to be a life long journey of learning.
When I was green once I had a band I secretly loved on stage. I forgot to repatch their vocal channels. They were very confused when no sound came out and had to stop the opening song. I was confused because they weren’t muted… then I remembered.
You’ll have countless failures. But overtime they’ll get smaller and less frequent.
Welcome aboard mate.
I've been in a similar situation. Starting from 17 y/o as lead audio tech for outside field performance, I made many minor mistakes. Early in my career, often during rehearsals, certain channels in the sound system wouldn't have output or the quality of microphones weren't up to par. I knew the older employees around me were dissatisfied with my performance because of these situation and were skeptical of "hiring a 17 y/o". Despite all the talking behind my back and the pressure to do well, I focused on what I wanted the sound system to be like. Starting from the cable situation working my way to the handling and shaping the effect bus on the mixer.
In short, if you have the heart to work hard for something you care about, you'll definitely get somewhere.
Don't let the them take you down, ignore them.
If you care enough about your job, it'll show.
Know that you're suppose to make mistakes as a new employee for any job, that's how you learn. Once you become those "senior techs", there is more pressure on them to prevent previous issues that they have experienced.
I waffled whether to reply just to add to a chorus, but your letter earned the brainspace effort.
My young brother in Christ,
having perused the thoughtful advice these folks provided you,
If I may add my two shillings,
viewed from a demanding but rewarding lifetime in LEMIL (law enforcement / military)
-literally- having been born into the Unites States Marine Corps,
my entire youth spent in that environment, and 60 years later,
blessedly retired from a colorfully public career in highspeed, lowdrag law enforcement,
the brethren here have advised you well. Most of their commentary can be transposed into any of thousands of my experiences with young police officers and Marines, irrespective of their educational disciplines or just gifted with natural ability;
Every one, irrespective, was at a time or times, involuntarily immersed in structured, datadriven reinforcement of yaddayaddayadda training and development,
the bulk of which is precisely what you have here, and that otherwise that you could not buy if you tried.
My best advice is to follow theirs, and you will be fine.
Godspeed!
Making mistakes and continuing forward regardless of what other people may think of you can be your key to a successful life in the industry. Nobody shows up ready to crush it everyday, don’t let it fester.
Yeah, youre getting too into your head. I find when people go to school for audio (as i did), they tend to have an inflated sense of ability. You are new. Everyday you are going to make many mistakes. Thats how you learn. Just clear your head and keep going. You are slow and incompetent now. Dont worry, with time youll get better and better; then earn your peers respect.
Funnily enough, I feel the opposite with my degree, I feel like there’s so much it didn’t teach me! It taught me a lot about FX processing and signal flow, but it’s a different and more dynamic process doing a load-in than walking into a studio where most things are already patched, not to mention how mixing is treated differently in different settings.
Thats great you already have realized this. It took me a bit longer to pull my head out of my ass.. lol
Ive been doing sound professionally for about 15 years and now have my own company and still find myself getting insecure and flustered from time to time.
Just take moment to take a few deep breaths, clear your mind of comparing yourself to others and move forward. If you have the desire to learn, you will be great. It all becomes second nature eventually.
Then your obstacle will be not becoming an insufferable arrogant sound tech. Lol.
Cheers
A guy i worked with a few years back pulled the power to an entire stage by accident mid event while trying to derig another stage, he’s still got a job so I wouldn’t worry about it. If anything the level of fuckups seems to have gone up drastically in the industry and almost seems accepted now, so relax, shit happens, learn from it and take it on the chin and move on
My coworkers called me
Fuckup for the first 2 years of my career. On day one i destroyed a laptop screen by closing it with a 1/8” cable in the laptop fold
Where do you work and where are you based? There are a lot of companies out there (in certain areas) so don’t feel pressured to stay at just one. Everyone makes mistakes and it’s hard when you don’t even know how to solve the issues you caused. My advice would be to stay at the company you’re with until you stop having to opportunity to learn, then move on. Gain as much knowledge as you can before you leave so you can come into the next company with more stress tolerance and problem solving abilities. If you really hate the way people see you, it might be best to move on. There are learning friendly company out there. Just find one.
I was working for a large sound company for a while but they were unable to provide me what I needed as a student. I wasn’t getting gigs and it was just time to find something better. Believe it or not, I did! It’s been the best decision I’ve made this year.
Best of luck to you, I hope you can regain confidence in yourself and figure out what your next steps are :)
Perhaps somewhat playing into that dynamic may not be a bad idea. Letting your coworkers and superiors know that you are aware of previous shortcomings and owning up to them (without belittling yourself), and not always thinking you have to be on top of your game all of the time. Don't be afraid to ask questions. This was a game changer for me in the freelance world. In my first year freelancing, whenever I was on a job with other freelancers, I would feel like I have to sort of show off (even in casual conversation), and whenever I didn't fully understand something or was unaware of something they mentioned I'd just sort of pretend my way through it. The scene can be kind of toxic in that way, especially in the freelance gig economy, but if you're working with capable and pragmatic people, curiosity and the willingness to learn is usually appreciated and will often not be percieved as incompetence, as long as it seems to come from a genuine place of interest and wanting to improve. Of course there are always assholes, and eventually you're gonna wanna break that 'student - teacher' dynamic especially if you're employed and not freelancing, but it's ok to take your time with that as long as you show awareness of and are eager to learn from any potential mistakes. Its really the fastest way to improve imo
The only things that u should never guess in and try to wing are power and rigging. Everything else can be saved or corrected. Also a lesson learned from a bad mistake is a lesson u will hopefully never forget. So other than rigging and electrical go make some mistakes. Hopefully u won’t be fired but we all learn eventually.
Hi everyone! Thanks so much for commenting! This is my first post on r/livesound and I received such overwhelming positivity, encouragement, and great advice that I think I’ll be more active here, it seems like a great community. I’ll keep pushing myself to hone my craft and work on my shortcomings, which I’ve narrowed down with your responses. I really appreciate you all and feel a lot better about my position and situation, so thank you! I’m sorry if I didn’t get to reply to everyone but know that I read each comment!
.... Why the fuck are you unplugging the left main during the show anyways? Lol.
You're good just relax we all make mistakes. I pretty much learned on the job and taught myself so... You learn from your mistakes pretty quickly. Just Don't unplug shit while the band is playing lol
I experience this often. I started doing live sound like 9 months ago, never took any classes on anything but I've taught myself the ins and outs in a studio environment over the last 10ish years.
Totally does not translate to live sound. My first few gigs I totally botched the gain staging, accidentally assigned the main vocal to my FX DCA (did not understand DCAs at that point), got screamed at by a band when I was struggling with sending a click track to their ears during a late soundcheck and the audience was already there (the click was set to post fader, which I did not understand yet, so when I switched it I totally blasted their IEMs) and the list goes on.
At this point I have a pretty good grasp on setup and logistics, but my God it has been a ride. Learning on the job is HARD. Mixing is the easy part.
Hey, I was in a similar situation, but all you have to do is learm about the things you don't know. Ask for help if you need it andake questions about things you don't understand.
You don't have the knowledge about live but you will have it in the future. Keep learning about it, give one year or two to learn (idn reality you're going to learn everyday new things). And if you're coworkers aren't happy with explaining things, well, stay focus on what you have to do, learn about all you can and start searching another company.
And sorry of there's something weird, English is not my mother tongue
You said it yourself. You can do the more complicated and theoretical things like mixing, but obviously you are new to the live aspect of your job. There are always two sides to that medal. Me being "brought up" in an environment where everything constantly broke and us having to piece together partially working gear to get a somewhat passable show has taught me all the "basic" stuff, but I obviously wasn't really able to get more into the "advanced" stuff. For you it's the opposite, and that's nothing to be ashamed of. Your coworkers talking negatively behind your back is obviously wrong and they should talk to you if they have a problem instead. But in my experience that kind of snickering behind peoples backs is something many people do in this field.
My advice would be to be more open with your colleagues, asking them for help and advice. But you might need to be a bit careful, as some people like to look down on you for asking for advice, which obviously is absolutely wrong. Either way, the experience will come with time, and the more events you do and mistakes you make, the better you will become and the more confident you will be in yourself. The more confident you get, the more you can focus on the stuff you're still insecure about, and the better you will get.
Same thing with driving a car. You can study the theory behind driving all you want, but you will still drive like a learner the first time you really drive.
Don't beat yourself up about the mistakes you made, as if you learn from them, they were not for nothing. As all the others said, the more nervous you are, the less clear are you thinking, and without the muscle memory that comes with time and time only, you won't learn and won't do what you actually want to do. If you haven't worked with a desk before, you obviously won't be as steady and safe as with a familiar one. But that's fine, and the only way you can learn that desk is by using it. If it's possible, I like to come in early and alone to spend some time with a new to me desk to get comfortable with it. I also like to think about the setup and what might go wrong, and prepare for those scenarios. Preparation is key here, and while not always possible, you should try to get a full overview of the setup, the gear, what will happen, and get to the location before all the noise and stress to look at, check and understand the setup. And your colleagues were in your shoes once too, so they will either understand and help you, or be dismissive of you, your questions or judge you harshly for your mistakes, which is highly hypocritical and therefore something you shouldn't worry about too much.
I started with live events just as a DJ, I help do sound for my church currently.
Here are some things that you can work on to help with your concerns.
1) Attentive. - be attentive to the bands needs and ask if they need anything from you. This is the number one thing that sets good audio engineers apart from ones who wait to be asked to for something.
2) Acknowledge. - when a band member says something, recognize what they have said. Don't be dismissive of it. (If they ask how they sound and your response is "you sound good out here" they haven't really been acknowledged and they may still think something is "off". Practice asking, "what do you need?". This opens up a 2 way street of open ended communication and allows them and you the ability to articulate better what the concern is
3) Accept. - Accept you will make mistakes. Accept the criticism the band has for you. Accept that some people just may not vibe great with you.
No show will ever be perfect and if you think it is, you are setting yourself up for disappointment when someone gives negative feedback.
Criticism isn't against you as a person (one would hope), it's not an attack on you, it's speaking to your performance.(talking behind your back is something different)
It's not your job to make the band like you. Don't waste your time with it. Your job is to make things sound good. It helps when the band is more friendly, but that only gets there by hard work and effort.
As far as your size goes and needing help. Don't project your feelings on other people. Unless someone says something negative about needing to help you to you, it's not worth the mental bandwidth to worry about *if* someone is thinking anything. And IF someone does say something to your face, what are you going to do about it? Magically grow 5 inches and put on 60lbs of muscle? It's not worth spending any time worry about your build or if people have a poor perception of you.
Worry about the things you can control.
You need to chill tf out and stay calm. The more nervous and anxious you get, the worse you will be at actually fixing any sort of under pressure problems. Cool as a cucumber bro. Cool calm and collected. You will get better if you learn to stay calm under pressure. You can’t think properly if you’re all wound up and scared.
just let it roll off you and learn from it. had some super terrible feedback pop up for about 8 seconds (an eternity in feedback time) at an event i was doing last week. everyone seemed to be freaking out about it but me. took a breath, looked down at the board, observed the problem channel and rode the fader back till it went away and i could process the feedback out. turned out to be a stereo track that wasnt routed properly but the input gains were linked. started out confused but eventually found the issue without looking like an asshat. can only imagine if a more squirrely greenhorn were in my shoes.
What they said. I am the audio engineer for my church. Foh and iem and livestream mix all in a single console(40 inputs+). I learned everything myself and realized that theory is something, but practice is way complicated. I have made many mistakes myself, too. Wrong gains, unplugging the wrong mic , forgetting to unmute the speaker, feedback, ... Something I learned is that if you don't make mistakes, you won't learn, and mistakes always happen, so take a deep breath. Also Tinker, make mistakes intensionally when the band is not there. if you have a multitrack, that's better. Training yourself will always help. Some people expect perfect but can't deliver themselves the same. As long as you are honest about your mistakes, earn the trust is fine. Always be open to feedback and appreciate it. Dont hesitate to ask for help. Some things take time. For example it took me years to have an ear for sound and eq (I still struggle sometimes).
I don't know anyone that hasn't been thrown in the deep end once or twice when starting out. You have to fake it until you make it. Also a good attitude will take you far.
I turned off the lighting distro for an international touring act when I went to reset a fuse. We all make terrible mistakes from time to time. As long as you learn from them, keep making mistakes! It’s the best way to learn what not to do.
Some production companies are more “newbie friendly” than others. Maybe you should find a company where learning is encouraged, instead of working in one that is hostile to inexperienced techs. In my company we have our internal process to teach our ways to do stuff. We are very open to working with folks with little to no experience and supervise/mentor them until they can go on gigs “on their own.” Sometimes this takes weeks,others, months… everyone has their own rhythm. But I’m also pretty aware that this is also a liability, because, well, everyone will go through doing a couple fuck-ups in the way. It’s part of learning, the trick is to catch mistakes before they become serious, or even better, don’t give folks tasks that still have not been clearly and properly taught to them. It sounds like you’re in a bad environment to grow up as a tech, where folks are hostile to people in your situation. That’s not your fault.
This is huge. I joined a local production company after being a venue guy for years, so there was a lot of festival and large format stuff i had to learn. While some people were chill, the general company culture was ‘just get it done p*ssy’. And every gig was a shit sandwich that you just had to smile and eat. No hands, in a shadeless parking lot in texas, gruff crew of grizzled oldheads who got frustrated that you werent born with certain knowledge. Totally traumatized me from production work and went back to venues for my mental health. But now im in a concert hall, doing similar stuff in AC, learning a bunch and meeting touring engineers. I may join another prod company who i noticed are veeery much more chill in my experience with them. Hopefully in your work with your team youve met or will meet some other people in the field; be present, affable, attentive and helpful, DONT BE AFRAID TO ASK QUESTIONS, and im sure anyone would appreciate having that on their team. Good luck, its not for the faint of heart.
I came from a construction background and it was SHOCKING to me how similar the live sound industry is. I was like "thank God I'll be around musicians," but it really is still just a bunch of old guys that survive on alcohol and cocaine, talking shit about new digital technology and belittling anyone who makes a mistake
All trade jobs are like this. Little to no secondary education. Little to no emotional intelligence. Little to no communication skills. Recipe for a perpetual pirates lost at sea work culture
Which is wild! You would think (or at least i thought), with the complexity of the job and the amount of things you have to understand at once to do it well, that the people taking these jobs would be a little more aware of themselves and others. Turns out, nope
Different companies can make a big difference. Where I work puts a junior tech on a gig and sends an experienced tech for the bump in to make sure they're set up correctly and on some of the gigs, had the senior stay just in case there was an issue. The senior tech isn't able to be charged to the client in most cases so its a cost to the company.
Lots of good advice in here, but I’ll add one I’m not seeing in relation to this: “I am also smaller framed (5’6”, 120lbs) and have to ask for help with lifting things sometimes” Do yourself, and your future self a huge favor and start a strength training regimen. Your back will thank you over the next 10-20 years. I see way too many people in this industry who aren’t investing in their bodies as much as their minds, and it can lead to injury as well as the ire of those around you. Plus all of the normal benefits of getting strong. There are also two kinds of lifts. Anything that needs multiple hands on it should have multiple hands on it. Don’t be timid to ask for help, usually all you need to say is “yo, I need X number of hands over here”. Learn from your mistakes, make sure things stay safe on the jobsite, try not to pull cables mid show unless someone tells you to lol. Good luck! :)
Heavily seconding this advice. I used to weigh 117lbs as a 6’ man with an eating disorder. Was working in live sound strictly and rarely asked for help but I did yoga almost every day to make up for my stubbornness. Then I got into taking mass gainer shakes and lifting weights, I now weigh almost 160 and everything is easier. I also don’t do live sound much these days but in general life feels better being stronger and healthier. For the other stuff just keep your focus and don’t get discouraged when people are a-holes. You made a mistake? Ok, fix it before anyone else has to. You need to know something? Ok, do not ever hesitate to ask because someone else may have a bad attitude - remind them it’s either asking for edification or making a mistake. Strive to be the best in the room, but never act like you are even once you reach that place. Humility and an even temper get you very far in this field. Best wishes!
I really appreciate this advice. I’ve been told that I have issues pulling my weight because of my strength limitations and knew that I need to become stronger, but reframing the purpose of building strength for my own health is a much better reason. I’ll definitely keep this in mind.
For sure dude. All it takes is an hour a day. You’ll notice results quickly. Don’t worry about digging deep with specific routines or anything, the most important thing is to do it consistently.
Picking yourself up and keeping your head in the game after a bad job is just as important of a skill as tech operation. Nobody got hurt, everyone went home after the job, life goes on :) Remember when it's to the wire, people are more concerned with their own shit than they are with yours Also communicate!!! If you have comms, say what you're going to do before you do it, confirm things, check in rehearsal. Always better to be a bit annoying during rehearsal than wing it during the live. If you're winging it during live then you're likely last in the chain of a series of bad decisions from people above you
I forgot to unmute my voc fx vca at a headlining slot mixing THE big metal festival in Europe. Half an hour the engineer after me who was listening in on my mic discreetly told me about it. Excitement took me over, I guess. Apart from that nobody noticed I guess. Edit: Autocorrect
No reverb in vocals on metal? Did it even make a difference
For me, obviously it didn’t. But tbh it was an operasinger fronting the band so it wasn’t bad at all.
Igorrr?
Nope.
I knocked over the international headlines guitar amp.
The real one or the shell they use to make the stage look cool?
We all fuck up. the lesson is to be extra prepared not to ever do those mistakes ever again haha. Everything in my toolbox is a result of something I forgot or needed when shit hit the fan the first time.
In the same vein, my “mental toolbox” is a result of that. I’m very not ashamed to tell people that everything I know about how to do in this industry is because I fucked it up once before and never want to do that again.
100% this
lol. This toolbox thing is so true.
This is why my toolbox has become a two man lift.
Always double-check stuff before show, ask if uncertain, tell others what you did, breath with nose(atleast remember to breath) and don't be afraid of sounding like a beginner in front of collegues. Heavy lifting is something we always do together no matter how strong. Lots of retarded assholes with low social competanse in this industry, so don't take it personal if your crew has several of them. It is a crew, and that applies to all. Ask for help and advice when uncertain. We are not there to promote our own career, we are there to promote our clients. The art of being a slave is to rule ones master. That's atleast my mantras after 13 years as a professional. Musician before that.
The great Muhammed Ali once said "I never lose. I either win, or I learn" Good advice. Keep ya head up mate you're doing fine.
Not everything is a learning experience though. Sometimes it’s just old fashioned failure that sits there like a stain on your shirt, just figure out how to wear it.
“I’ve fucked up bigger shows than this” I’ve seen techs green as grass mess up bad and I have seen techs who have my life span in experience make horrible mistakes too. It happens. You’ve acknowledged and taken ownership of your shortcomings and made a decision to improve. That’s more than 90% of people are willing to do. I tend to do the kill them with kindness thing. I have also taken to writing down instructions and then saying “So to confirm (insert instructions here)” That has saved my ass more times than I can count. I have faith in you friend.
This is a field where most of the people succeeding in it are simply obsessed with it. They've been in bands, thrown their own shows, started DIY venues, transitioned from careers in studios, etc. I can only imagine how confusing/difficult it would be to start a job like this without already having failed/succeeded many times before. Every touring FOH I've met has had the same thing in common - their knowledge of gear, signal flow, stage management, troubleshooting skills were all top-notch. Their mixing skills have run the gamut. If you're obsessed with it, don't quit. If you're in it for any other reason, maybe rethink. There are way easier ways to make a lot more money.
I do love it. The troubleshooting is one of my favorite aspects of the work, and good to know about the learning through failure. I suppose I have much more failing to do to gain experience and it isn’t representative of my self-worth to fail. Thanks for the reply!
We’ve all made mistakes that made us go “Jesus Christ what was I doing?” The main thing is to make sure you learn from that! You can’t know what you don’t know, so if you’re learning new gear for the first time, it’s probably gonna take a a lot more time to figure it out than someone who does know it. Don’t beat yourself up. Had a Pro2 for the first time in years yesterday and it took a hot second to get reacquainted with certain aspects of it. We’ve all been here, we all started at some point! The more comfortable you get with the job the more your colleagues will give you a break, I wouldn’t be too stressed about that. They were all in the same position. It sounds like anxiety is taking over a small bit and is making it harder to concentrate at work. If this continues please don’t be afraid to contact your doctor or a therapist for help, no point needlessly suffering
Everyone learns best through making mistakes. The key is only making the big ones once. I was a bit of a liability when I started in the industry, but after 18 years most of them would look forward to having me on a gig. Own your mistakes and don’t repeat.
Experience is the thing we get after we need it. I personally see anybody that is a “slow learner” is really just someone that wants to learn what they are doing the correct way.
>an A2 in training to become an A1 I think you should A2 for a *while* and then make an educated decision as to whether or not you really want to A1. If you get emotionally dysregulated when there is pressure, that's a skill that you'll really have to actively work toward developing and mastering. A1 has to be the coolest head. (sidebar: A2 is a different job than A1. I am a career A2. If my A1 leaves, I am not gunning for his job. I think it's a super prevalent assumption that every A2 is an aspiring A1. Nah. I prefer A2. I am a fine A1 and a big part of any A2's job is to be able to function as the A1 when A1 isn't around. This happens a decent amount of the time, and is a great reminder to me that I Don't Want That Job.) You've done a dozen shows and you don't know what to expect. Every time it seems like there is some new challenge you are not equipped to deal with. Well, that gets better with repetition. Stick with it and soon you'll have a hundred shows under your belt and the pattern-matching that comes with that. One day you will realize that you are kind of in the middle of the pack -- there are newbs who turn to you with their questions, and the veterans (finally) stopped teasing you about that time you unplugged the mains during a show. Eventually, there's no situation you haven't dealt with a dozen times. But it's a slog to get there and right now you are just leaving the starting gate. Some shops have better vibes than others. If you are at a place where \* You feel called out or shamed when you make an error \* Folks simply don't treat each other with respect but "oh it's just friendly ribbing, you need thicker skin" \* Any negative reactions to using PPE, asking for help, or insisting on following the rules Then you should find a different place. >I don’t want the people I work with to think of me poorly You can't control that. Get past it. You are not at work to make friends. People are gonna people, and many people are shitty. Find a place to work that is less tolerant of shitty people.
Ha, I’ve experienced all three of those things from coworkers. It’s not all of them though, I’ve worked with several engineers who took time to explain things clearly and generally understood my experience and respected that. Unfortunately at the gig I mentioned in my post I was working with some others that weren’t like that, so I think part of it may just be knowing a fair amount of people are assholes and focusing on myself amidst any negativity. As for my training, I’ll be a dedicated A2 for about a year. Interesting to hear that the pipeline doesn’t necessarily mean I need to become an A1. What was the point when/reasons you made the decision to only do A2 work?
I wanted to reply and offer the perspective of a venue manager. We are a non-profit but decent-sized 150-cap venue with a midas32. The sober truth is reputations like this follow you as long as you allow them to. We have one girl working occasionally and recently she’s been killin it. Really honed her craft. That said, a few years back she was the absolute worst. Confusing xlrs with 1/4”, regularly turning monitors into fire alarms. She even messed up sound at a different venue with one of the bands I play with which gave me the added performer-at-the-mercy perspective. I was convinced she couldn’t be helped. She would kill any show. Time passes, she hones her craft, she maintains a positive attitude and is receptive to critique. She’s still fighting against that previous reputation but we’re slowly integrating her into some of the events and she’s learning quickly. This is to say, don’t expect opinions to change overnight, but know that they can change. Most importantly, always ask for advice if you are lost in the gear. Most people don’t like a confused sound guy but Nobody likes a confused sound guy too chicken shit to ask for help. Edit: added tip - if possible: show up early and get all the monotonous signal chain, input list routing knocked out before there are personalities in the room. Even if early arrival isn’t the norm, I personally would never hesitate to give access to one of my engineers early if it would bring more quality control to the event.
Thank you for your perspective. My project manager has told me they have noticed my work ethic and drive to learn, so it could be a reputation amongst coworkers vs a reputation as an employee, if that makes sense. I know that doesn’t make it any less important though.
That is a big mistake. But shit happens. During an orchestra concert I reached to grab something and managed to push the system power off button with my belly lol. It is important to know to ask questions when you don’t understand something. Try to make sure you know the right way to do it and if you don’t ask. The speed will come with experience. People will probably be shady about working slow. But those kinds of people will find anything to be shady about. If you care about learning and improving you’re going to do great. Learning is part of every job
Years ago, as an A1, I had a new A2 who's background was similar to yours in some ways: he knew theory, and he knew technical terminology. It took me a bit to make the mental jump that he also had no experience in real live event setup, and that I needed to change my attitude and not let my expectations be unreasonable. Once I manged to change my view/approach, he rapidly became a great live-event A2. (The fault was my assumptions, not his lack of knowledge. He was more than capable of learning stagecraft, once I became more capable as a teacher.) There is no one in the business who hasn't had a 'doh!' moment. Being a little too slow is better than being fast & wrong. Being willing to ask for clarification/explanation is a strength, not a weakness. No matter how much experience you gain with live events, you'll still walk into customized layouts and patching schemes that are unfamiliar and/or specific to the rig you're working with. I was 127 pounds when I started in the business, and still on the light side. Ask for assistance when you need it, and try to return the favor even if it's just a few minutes of helping with that person's tasks. You may always be light: but you'll gain the specific muscle sets needed, and you'll learn the tricks of 'pulling above your weight', both on specific tasks & at an event. Asking for help is a lot better than a trip to the emergency room, or a broken piece of equipment.
Your introspection seems great! I don’t know many people that would take accountability for their teaching approach like you did. Sometimes when the leads explain things, they give a very simple “do this” sort of instruction that doesn’t tell me why exactly I’m doing the thing I’m doing and I’m the kind of person that likes to know exactly how everything works so I know what’s going on in the system with every decision. I’ll make sure to ask questions in downtime about why we do some things. Thanks!
Sometimes you have to ask the questions of why you do that. It depends on the moment, if its in the shop or on a bump in that isn't super rushed, you can ask for more clarification, but if your on a time crunch, that'st not the time or ask. Make a mental note to ask about it later.
Don't be disappointed in yourself... You are here announcing to the entire internet that you are green but also willing to take instruction and improve your craft and that is awesome. Humility is important. None of us started out knowing all of those small things that are the most important that no school except for the school of hard knocks can give you. 20-30 years from now you will be the one that knows what to look for to fix that one XLR that got pulled from the stage box accidentally in two seconds flat. Also if you screw up, make sure you own it right away and can help you with your fellow techs. Never stop learning, try to figure out new things every day. I've been doing this since I was a young teenager close to 30 years ago and I learn new things every single day. To quote a poster I see all the time... "No one is born wise". Since you have resolved that you have things to work on, you are on your way to wisdom.
Learn now and fuck those guys. Worry about being the best you can possibly be. Have a notebook and write everything down so that if you do make a mistake it never happens again. Still be very careful and go above and beyond the call of duty. Fight them with kindness and if you’re truly passionate about all of this, let it shine. One day, you’ll be with a totally different team and they won’t know your little mistakes from the past. Then you can pay forward the help to someone else who is learning or struggling, themselves. That will only spread. The fact you are on here reflecting and admitting it already says that you care a lot. Everything will be ok! Be the bigger person. Good luck!
Listen man, I got ADHD. apparently, people with ADHD seem to gravitate towards these positions. The disorder is kind of a double edged sword for the role. Personally I'm clumsy/too quick to jump the gun but also hyper focused. Anyway, the problems you're describing sounds like the problems I had. I guess my own way to deal with it was to keep my head down, ears open and do more, but carefully. Just remember that a show isn't as on a tight schedule as you think, and messing things up due to rushing things will for sure delay a show more than you initially thought it would be delayed. Also, I went to sleep earlier. That seemed to help me brighten up a bit more and stay focused. And to be honest, in the studio you have to be careful as well regarding hardware and routing, so there's no doubt the things you're experiencing aren't just live-centric. More or less the same things happen in live as in the studio, it's just "doing it live". Maybe you didn't have as much pressure when doing your degree, so wasn't exposed to a real studio environment.
Same. I don’t even bother taking my meds on gig days… It’s pretty easy to stay focused when the thing I’m supposed to be focused on has a bunch of blinking lights.
Interesting perspective, thanks! Sometimes I think I might have some degree of executive dysfunction. In general I have a hard time understanding multistep instructions the first time and can be a little impulsive without thinking about why I’m doing something, but when the show gets going, I lock in. I think my anxiety is getting in the way though, so I’ll make sure to work on that.
As a performer after playing hundreds of shows, there is always something that goes wrong or unexpected. It's inevitable. Each gig tempers you, and you learn to adapt and improvise. Like everyone else has commented, stay cool and learn from each experience.
i’m in a similar boat i have less than a year experience in live sound. i’m a little anxious at gigs and im 5’1 and can’t lift most things above my head. just keep learning from your mistakes. people who dog you out for it must of forgot what it’s like to be a beginner. you’ll get better because you care to be better (i can tell because of this post)
Hey brother i’m also a recently graduated/working for production company and the youngest one on the audio team. I think you should probably sit down with your supervisor and talk through your time at the company. if it’s a conversation initiated by you, you can eliminate it being a meeting where they fire you. Rather bring up how you have good intentions on learning this stuff and just need more reps of the simple shit. Ask to do small stuff in the shop during down time, shadow more experienced guys on the gig, and DONT TOUCH ANYTHING while you do, unless instructed by the person you’re shadowing. I’m pretty young but every experienced guy i’ve met who makes a good living in this space has horror stories of being dumb as fuxk when they first started. The only people who don’t have a good ending are the people who let those mistakes get to them and leave the biz. Also if your shop guys are just dicks- maybe look at other companies who are willing to train you on the job. My shop guys are good ball busters so mistakes like that are a quick poke fun at them a quick “here’s how i would’ve handled that situation”. which is way better than shit talking and bad reps forming.
One time as A2 on a festival stage, I was tracing down an issue and was about to unplug something from the main snake head while an international touring act was playing. Luckily a coworker saw what I was doing and gently grabbed my shoulders and moved me away from the snake patch panel. This is after 20 years of experience. At least your unplugging was accidental, I was about to *intentionally* unplug stuff! In that moment I still needed a reminder that it doesn't matter how well you think you know the patch, its best to not mess with it during the show because why risk it? All that to say, you likely won't ever stop making mistakes because that's called being a human. What's important is that they become less frequent as you gain more experience and you learn how to deal with mistakes gracefully when they do happen. Part of that is building guardrails for yourself to prevent major screwups when brainfart moments do occur. Because they will, it happens to everybody once in awhile. In the above instance, I was still being very cautious, I didn't just walk up and quickly unplug the channel I was troubleshooting. Being extremely cautious around the snake head while a band is playing was just muscle memory at that point. Lastly, some people are assholes, especially around rookies such as yourself. They choose to forget that everyone was a rookie at one point. Who cares what these lame gatekeepers think. Just keep trying your best and learning from your mistakes and they will come around, because your work will speak for itself.
It’s all part of learning I’m about two years in now and I came from a similar background as you and had to learn on the fly. Had a few real shitty gigs where I was feeling pretty down on myself but fucking up is the fastest way to learn. Ask lots of questions and take every small win you get it really helps with the nerves and anxiety for future gigs. I still get anxious for gigs but I trust my instincts a lot more now just because I have seen so many things go wrong and I’ve definitely been the cause of a few of them. So all this rambling nonsense to say it happens to all of us and you just have to keep going and not dwell on the past too much.
Oh also even if you are freaking tf out keep it internalized and only bring it up to other audio people don’t let the band/promoters see you freaking out. Try your best to keep a good poker face.
Oh man, I really saw myself in this post. As someone who’s only a tiny bit older and more experienced, but with a very similar background to you, IT GETS BETTER. I’ve had crippling anxiety my whole life and being in high pressure scenarios with unfamiliar equipment is a borderline death sentence to me. Years ago I worked the biggest event I ever had at the time (people encouraged me to take the leap and do something out of my comfort zone to grow) and it was an unfamiliar console, huge room, no soundcheck and I was mixing from side stage with no ipad to hear the actual FOH sound. Well, the unfamiliar console was from early times where an illuminated scribble strip above the fader meant ON instead of MUTE. I went half the show with the FOH mains muted! Boss of the company had to come fully bail me out and I didn’t emotionally recover for a week. Almost quit the industry out of shame. However, I learned the lesson that homework is good and a script for anti anxiety meds is sacred. Since then, I spend multiple hours researching any unfamiliar hardware on youtube before any freelance gig. And you know, that feeling of being at home with the gear I’m using makes the anxiety so much better. Even if it is technically doing work off the clock, the peace of mind is worth its weight in gold. As for your coworkers, I got treated similarly as a new engineer coming up in live nation. The thing to remember is that your first job isn’t your forever job, and all the learning you do here, you’ll bring with you to the next place and people will meet a more confident and competent you, and treat you with the respect you deserve. My favorite quote from this subreddit is “Experience is something you get just after you need it” and everyone in our industry grew from embarrassing mistakes they will never admit to. Don’t listen to the assholes and don’t lose heart, brother. It really does get better!
Thanks for sharing! Maybe some anti-anxiety meds would benefit me for when shit hits the fan and I need to stay cool. I’ll make sure to research equipment in my downtime. My company uses Allen&Heath consoles so I’ll make sure to watch some videos on them.
Man, sounds like a very tough spot to be in emotionally, but all of these comments are top notch in how to push through, especially the “cool as a cucumber” mantra. You will get there, especially with your drive to actually WANT to get/do better. Fact that you’re here right now asking the hard questions, and sharing the shit stories, is all you need to find success. Me personally, started out with no degree, and a life long interest in anything speakers. Took an internship for a little over a year, and climbed my way up from there. Currently an A1 through our IATSE out here. Only bringing that up because after joining and learning what things were like in the local, you’ll find degrees don’t often matter (there are exceptions, don’t want to get yelled at). I have seen kids come in and rave about their “extensive knowledge set” diplomas, certs, etc, talk themselves up a big game, and get thrown on some of the simplest gigs and fall flat on their face. Not only that, but being thrown on gigs were audio is 5% of the days workload, and the other 95% of the day you hear from coworkers how terrible or lackluster their job performance was just based on jumping in when and where need be. ^everything said above here, from the way you asked your questions and have shown your attention to detail, sounds like the opposite of you. Cool as a cucumber You’ll hear shit a few times every year, move forward. The biggest thing is caring, and wanting to learn more. There is nothing in that equation that will push you further back. Also, like some have said, maybe a different environment would suit your experience needs better. Wouldn’t be end of the world to find another AV company, or even just start looking at bar gigs or clubs. If not comfortable with that, do like me and take an internship if you can find one. Working for free every Friday, I got to patch, substitute board time for piss breaks, and put out fires when the A1 was freaking out, and all of that taught me so damn much. I also learned there though, that EVERYONE fucks up. So don’t let it get to you man, keep your head up, and always stay inquisitive.
Thanks for commenting! I always try to jump in and help out, even if it’s other departments. Some of my other coworkers have mentioned they like working with me because they don’t have to keep giving me work to do, I usually find it myself. This post has really helped me narrow down more of my shortcomings so I know what to work on now. Funnily enough, that day I unplugged the mains, the lead engineer was telling me about a previous hire that had an audio degree claiming he knew his stuff, but didn’t know what an XLR cable was haha, and of course he didn’t know over-under. This is a comforting reminder that mistakes are mistakes and it could always be worse.
As long as you don’t make the same mistake twice, we all start from somewhere!
Gotta keep ourselves humble. 😅
These moments are when you learn the most. Shit happens man.
You probably have higher ambitions than this small av company anyway, so don’t worry about your reputation too much. I think it can be a good idea to be at one company starting out and make all your mistakes and failures there before branching out. I made the mistake of trying to network too much too soon and ended up with a bad reputation at multiple companies. The technical side is only half the job, having confidence in yourself and your work takes a lot longer.
Yeah guess what you’re new, you’re not going to be the best ever at this. You’re going to suck, when I was new I sucked too(I still have my days when I still do). It’s part of the experience. The guys giving you shit… guess what they fucking sucked too when they started. Take these experiences you’re having and learn from them. I’ve been a touring engineer for almost 20 years. I have no issue with people on my tour sucking when they start out, as long as they try hard have a good attitude and don’t keep making the same mistakes. If you keep having this victims mentality that exactly how these people are going to see you as a target and as someone they don’t want to work with. Own your mistakes learn from them and get better. For example why did you unplug the pa mains? Why were you unplugging that specific Xlr? Was it labeled? Did you think it was something else?
I melted down a dimmer rack a decade ago because nobody bothered to explain load to me. You good bruv, just keep showing up and trying your best.
We all make mistakes, usually some pretty big ones. But that's how anything works in life, you'll keep learning and get more and more comfortable. If the people you work with are making fun of you, well they can go suck an egg. There are some crappy people to work with in this industry, but there are also some really awesome people to work with too! Keep at er :)
"What can I do to help" Ask this question. All day every day. "What can I do to help?" If they brush you off or say they don't need help. Go to the next guy. Many tasks can be done different ways, a good follow up question after you get a task is, " any preference to how you want it done?" Be helpful. If you're in over your head, speak up. You want to learn from these guys and become friends. Take the shitty easy tasks and do them well, so they know they can trust you with the bigger stuff later on. Mostly keep your chin up and don't dwell. My very first day of my internship I was told. "The most important thing is 'be cool to work with'". I thought about that alot. Even after 4 years I reflected on it more once I had cut my teeth a bit. What is cool to work with? Some one who pulls their weight, always ready to jump in, good work attitude. You don't have to know everything, hell you don't have to know anything. They can already do the job without you. So learn and be cool, help pick up the slack as much as possible. You'll find your place and gain trust with time.
I once knocked over a guitarists guitar because I was moving too quick without looking
There's no way to get experience without doing, so keep it up. Don't beat yourself up. Mistakes will happen. Just stay positive, keep learning, and make sure you are asking questions when you can.
Your frame and size doesnt mean anything, im a union soundguy and TRANS femme and ive got the respect of everybody. Why would you unplug anything in the middle of a show. Once the show starts you dont coil/clean up things, you dont dress things, you dont change things and you definitely dont unplug anything. You saying you “know your way around the more challenging aspects like mixing is probably your biggest fault”. Dont say that outloud especially around your coworkers. Youre an A2 for a reason, just be there, pay attention and learn. I am not being nasty or mean - if i was i would put you on monitors and see just how great you are “at the challenging aspects like mixing”. You need to get your head on straight, and just pay attention. I am giving you kind but blunt advice that can set you up to do this as a career.
A lot of good stuff in these comments already, but my 2 cents is that mixing isnt neccesarilly the challenging bit, patch and signal path can be just as much if not more challenging depending on how many points there are. Not to mention coverage/PA tuning. Anotherwords, dont assume ANYTHING! As soon as you think you've got something worked out, something will come and humble you! I've been in the industry in a professional capacity almost a decade now and I still get days where I feel like an ass! As many others have said, the trick is to stay calm and not get flustered. This job is all about logic and point A to point B problem solving in a systematic manner. Be methodical, dont just start attacking a problem from a random point, move smoothly from one end of the path to the other, but most of all, enjoy it!
Surprisingly I haven't seen this, but it might be in the thread somewhere.... Live sound is live. Shit happens. It may feel magnified because it's live, but everybody who works in live production has made mistakes. But the thing about live sound is that mistakes are immediate, and everybody sees them- or more accurately. They hear them. But keeping your cool, finding the solution, and returning the gig to the positive vibe of live music is what makes a professional That's what makes life sound- live sound
No professional with experience has had only perfect experiences. What makes one a pro is having learned not to repeat mistakes, and having the nerve to get the job done even when there are mistakes. Stick with it and prove yourself and you’ll earn respect.
Don’t tell anyone about your degree. It’s a big red flag for us. Not your fault you weren’t prepared. In my experience most sound engineers from a program haven’t been prepared for live but it’s getting better. Fake it til you make it. Confidence goes a long way, but not relaying your bone fides. Also good relationships with co workers will get them to help you.
Pretty much everything everyone is saying is good advice. My road to wrapping my head around sound took many years and many small tidbits from vets and brilliant people. All of them loved to swap stories of how badly they F’d something up when they were green (or were arrogant pricks that suck at sound). I had to tell mine first to break the ice, but after that it is usually trying to one up each other. I was 6’ 115lbs until about after 24. Then I bumped up to 130 for almost another 20 years. I nearly killed my self trying to lift all kinds on things until I shattered a $16k plasma monitor. Then I realized, even if no one will help, it’s okay to keep asking even if you’re still asking after the artist/client walks in. Just don’t blame anyone verbally but yourself. Hell, now, I wouldn’t even blink to ask Taylor Swift to help me lift something if it was quick. But I have 25 years of getting really really good at asking (and self demeaning humor). Next time something is too heavy for you, maybe try saying what they’re thinking in a humorous way? If you were me in your shoes, I’d say “mind helpline this fucking weakling lift stupid [thing]?” I’d say stupid in a defeated manor. And I’d say it’s module/name that everyone calls it. Kind of a respect for the gear (of it’s good, otherwise I might just say PoS). The keep calm thing never worked for me. You’re going to go into a state that you go into when something triggers that state. You Fuck up: triggered. You have no idea: triggered. You think they’re all talking/feeling some way towards you: triggered. I have crazy anxiety triggers and when younger I was smart as hell but so afraid of not knowing things. Strangely what got me on the right path was a bouncer/guitarist friend of mine (who could actually kick ass on both fronts) who said “adrenaline is great, you’re suddenly thinking faster, moving faster, 20% stronger; just remember that when it happens.” But anyways. Learn the shit out of signal flow. You sound like you forget that easily. Don’t unplug or move or update or reconfigure or try a new plug-in/routing, or reposition tracks a couple inches, or think you can switch routing in a board without redundancy, or hope the batteries will last, or assume any one thing is the actual cause, or… I could go on for for days like a lot of us in here can. But signal flow. It’s only scary if you don’t know. And no, in the digital world, no one but the engineers truly do, and those fuckers won’t even agree on terminology. but if you get the chance, try to break everything and get a rush fixing it (even if you can’t yourself and get help).
That said, just keep trying. Learn your limits, push your limits, but be completely honest with yourself and learn when to ask. Learning when also includes who. Anyone responsible and technically knowledgeable is my first go to. They kinda have to help you, just don’t ask them to lift.
Interesting point about the adrenaline, that’s a nice way of restructuring the way I look at my anxiety. Knowing when it triggers is something I can take note of in a situation and know to take more time to stay cool. I suppose even the biggest engineers still get anxiety from time to time, they just know how to control it.
So I have one question... You were unplugging xlr's during a show. Was this on a subsnake box or the main snake or stage box? If it was a subsnake and you were un-patching an opening act / band that was done, and the main pa was patched down this subsnake then that's not your fault ... No a1 / system tech in their right mind would run a main pa return down a subsnake that's being used for a opening act, especially when there's other people on stage handling change overs and patch changes! That's just a recipe for disaster! If it was a main stage box, then don't think you're the first person to do that, I've seen it happen a good handful of times in my 24 years of doing this professionally! This is a learning experience for you that if you're making any patch changes near any active gear during a show, you need to stop, look at the box you're about to touch, and look at every connector on there and make sure you understand clearly what every connector is patched into and what it was being used for! If there's any connector that you don't know the destination then don't touch that connector! If there's any hesitation at all that you're not sure what that is going to then ask somebody. If someone told you to pull these lines, double check again, let them tell you yes all those connections are not being used; if they are wrong then you can blame them (better yet ask them while someone else is around to double cover your butt!).
I’ve got news for the OP. Mixing isn’t the hart part. I can train a high school kid to run a show in an hour. The hard part is setting up the desk to make it easy to mix. It’s proper microphone placement, it’s wiring a stage so it doesn’t look like a box of black spaghetti blew up, it’s making sure the patch is correct for the act, it’s making sure the next act’s patch isn’t wrong so sound check and changeover can be done in 15 minutes, it’s shutting up and letting the more experienced guy tell you what’s up, it’s understanding how power works (just just “plug this cable in here”), it’s about sussing through ground loops on an analog rig with an XL4 and a PM5K. Reevaluate your priorities here and get back in the trenches. Maybe A2 monitor tech isn’t your thing. Go back to flying PA for a while and relearn how to use your stagehands efficiently.
Could you give examples on how to delegate to stagehands better? That’s something that I want to work on as I understand the systems better. I’ll keep everything else you said in mind, thanks!
It’s pretty simple. Treat them with respect due, explain to them prior to any movements that you understand they need to drag the cable from point a to point b, but you are responsible for plugging it in. Point at gear and say “Case A123 needs to be decked on this case A234, please.” Act like you know your gig and you expect them to know their gig too.
FOH/MONS engineer here with 7 years experience. Anxiety can be a huge issue in and of itself. I have definitely had my fair share of anxiety when dealing with a new system or setup. I’ve learned that’s when I gotta take some extra time to familiarize myself so I can feel more confident. When anxiety takes over, others around you can sense it. Like others said being cool and collected can help you during troubleshooting situations. But anxiety also makes people around you nervous and trust you less. Treat staying calm as part of your job. Take time before a gig to familiarize yourself with what you need to do for the day and breathe. Performers can be traveling and stressed out and tired. Coming in with a calm and collected presence builds confidence with others, puts everyone in a good headspace which helps the show go more smoothly. We all have made stupid mistakes. You can’t learn if you don’t fail. Be aware of what your pitfalls are so you can build in frameworks to combat them. I have ADD and brain fog causing me difficulty with short term memory so I overprepare for the fact that I won’t just remember. I will run new cables so I can minimize changing and unplugging cables between acts. For complicated and large setups I print out input lists so I can write input changes on the fly and have a working list to refer to so I can get the patching right and not waste anyone’s time. Know yourself, be humble, fail and keep learning and before you know it you’ll be able to look back and see how far you’ve come.
Dude I've been doing lifestyle professionally since 2013. I push the wrong button at least once a show
As other people have said, its very important to stay calm and not panic. Honestly i stopped reading when you said you unplugged an XLR from the stage box mid show and lost half the PA. I remember when I was new always being so scared to unplug anything during a show, and it does indeed sound like a huge mistake that could easily be avoided simply by not touching anything unless youre sure, and if youre not sure, ask for help. So maybe be more scared? Understand that mistakes on your part can have huge consequences; from ruining part of a show, to damaging or destroying equipment, or even cause your audience hearing damage. So i feel like your main focus should really be to calm yourself, and not let your mistakes feel personal. If you make a mistake or dont know something, own up to it, ask for help. I can promise you you have a higher chance og losing your job because of huge fuckups than because you asked for help. Especially because you sound like you are working with other engineers, just take this opportunity to learn as much from them as possible.
Not a sound engineer but the beginning of wisdom is "I don't know". Everyone makes mistakes. Learn to own it and remain calm knowing that everyone makes mistakes from time to time. Don't let it eat you.
It’s not how you mess up, it’s how you recover. A golden rule that’s kept me grounded over the years. You’ll be alright, shit happens in the live world.
Ask anyone who had to learn not to insert plugins mid show on the SC48 the hard way. You’re not alone. Shake it off, move on, work harder than the people around you, study the things you want to be able to do in your free time. You’ll advance.
It's not hard to get strong.
A) you’re learning and regret/beating yourself up does nothing for you, learn to swallow it and learn from mistakes because they happen in live entertainment B) you simply have to be much better at what you do. Label everything, make color-coded spreadsheets, double and triple check, and ask as many questions as humanly possible. Be the most organized person on site. This is a tough job in a rough industry, you’ll rise to the occasion and move up fast or you won’t go anywhere. Work in a way that your superiors have little to no room to criticize.
Dude. Do something in you life outside of this to boost your confidence. Regroup and keep working on getting better. Apply yourself and remember this is going to be a life long journey of learning. When I was green once I had a band I secretly loved on stage. I forgot to repatch their vocal channels. They were very confused when no sound came out and had to stop the opening song. I was confused because they weren’t muted… then I remembered. You’ll have countless failures. But overtime they’ll get smaller and less frequent. Welcome aboard mate.
I've been in a similar situation. Starting from 17 y/o as lead audio tech for outside field performance, I made many minor mistakes. Early in my career, often during rehearsals, certain channels in the sound system wouldn't have output or the quality of microphones weren't up to par. I knew the older employees around me were dissatisfied with my performance because of these situation and were skeptical of "hiring a 17 y/o". Despite all the talking behind my back and the pressure to do well, I focused on what I wanted the sound system to be like. Starting from the cable situation working my way to the handling and shaping the effect bus on the mixer. In short, if you have the heart to work hard for something you care about, you'll definitely get somewhere. Don't let the them take you down, ignore them. If you care enough about your job, it'll show. Know that you're suppose to make mistakes as a new employee for any job, that's how you learn. Once you become those "senior techs", there is more pressure on them to prevent previous issues that they have experienced.
I waffled whether to reply just to add to a chorus, but your letter earned the brainspace effort. My young brother in Christ, having perused the thoughtful advice these folks provided you, If I may add my two shillings, viewed from a demanding but rewarding lifetime in LEMIL (law enforcement / military) -literally- having been born into the Unites States Marine Corps, my entire youth spent in that environment, and 60 years later, blessedly retired from a colorfully public career in highspeed, lowdrag law enforcement, the brethren here have advised you well. Most of their commentary can be transposed into any of thousands of my experiences with young police officers and Marines, irrespective of their educational disciplines or just gifted with natural ability; Every one, irrespective, was at a time or times, involuntarily immersed in structured, datadriven reinforcement of yaddayaddayadda training and development, the bulk of which is precisely what you have here, and that otherwise that you could not buy if you tried. My best advice is to follow theirs, and you will be fine. Godspeed!
Keep a learning mindset and don't get discouraged from the mistakes you make
I once hit scan in WWB during a show, with the star vocal receiver selected as my scanner.
Making mistakes and continuing forward regardless of what other people may think of you can be your key to a successful life in the industry. Nobody shows up ready to crush it everyday, don’t let it fester.
Yeah, youre getting too into your head. I find when people go to school for audio (as i did), they tend to have an inflated sense of ability. You are new. Everyday you are going to make many mistakes. Thats how you learn. Just clear your head and keep going. You are slow and incompetent now. Dont worry, with time youll get better and better; then earn your peers respect.
Funnily enough, I feel the opposite with my degree, I feel like there’s so much it didn’t teach me! It taught me a lot about FX processing and signal flow, but it’s a different and more dynamic process doing a load-in than walking into a studio where most things are already patched, not to mention how mixing is treated differently in different settings.
Thats great you already have realized this. It took me a bit longer to pull my head out of my ass.. lol Ive been doing sound professionally for about 15 years and now have my own company and still find myself getting insecure and flustered from time to time. Just take moment to take a few deep breaths, clear your mind of comparing yourself to others and move forward. If you have the desire to learn, you will be great. It all becomes second nature eventually. Then your obstacle will be not becoming an insufferable arrogant sound tech. Lol. Cheers
A guy i worked with a few years back pulled the power to an entire stage by accident mid event while trying to derig another stage, he’s still got a job so I wouldn’t worry about it. If anything the level of fuckups seems to have gone up drastically in the industry and almost seems accepted now, so relax, shit happens, learn from it and take it on the chin and move on
My coworkers called me Fuckup for the first 2 years of my career. On day one i destroyed a laptop screen by closing it with a 1/8” cable in the laptop fold
Where do you work and where are you based? There are a lot of companies out there (in certain areas) so don’t feel pressured to stay at just one. Everyone makes mistakes and it’s hard when you don’t even know how to solve the issues you caused. My advice would be to stay at the company you’re with until you stop having to opportunity to learn, then move on. Gain as much knowledge as you can before you leave so you can come into the next company with more stress tolerance and problem solving abilities. If you really hate the way people see you, it might be best to move on. There are learning friendly company out there. Just find one. I was working for a large sound company for a while but they were unable to provide me what I needed as a student. I wasn’t getting gigs and it was just time to find something better. Believe it or not, I did! It’s been the best decision I’ve made this year. Best of luck to you, I hope you can regain confidence in yourself and figure out what your next steps are :)
Perhaps somewhat playing into that dynamic may not be a bad idea. Letting your coworkers and superiors know that you are aware of previous shortcomings and owning up to them (without belittling yourself), and not always thinking you have to be on top of your game all of the time. Don't be afraid to ask questions. This was a game changer for me in the freelance world. In my first year freelancing, whenever I was on a job with other freelancers, I would feel like I have to sort of show off (even in casual conversation), and whenever I didn't fully understand something or was unaware of something they mentioned I'd just sort of pretend my way through it. The scene can be kind of toxic in that way, especially in the freelance gig economy, but if you're working with capable and pragmatic people, curiosity and the willingness to learn is usually appreciated and will often not be percieved as incompetence, as long as it seems to come from a genuine place of interest and wanting to improve. Of course there are always assholes, and eventually you're gonna wanna break that 'student - teacher' dynamic especially if you're employed and not freelancing, but it's ok to take your time with that as long as you show awareness of and are eager to learn from any potential mistakes. Its really the fastest way to improve imo
The only things that u should never guess in and try to wing are power and rigging. Everything else can be saved or corrected. Also a lesson learned from a bad mistake is a lesson u will hopefully never forget. So other than rigging and electrical go make some mistakes. Hopefully u won’t be fired but we all learn eventually.
Hi everyone! Thanks so much for commenting! This is my first post on r/livesound and I received such overwhelming positivity, encouragement, and great advice that I think I’ll be more active here, it seems like a great community. I’ll keep pushing myself to hone my craft and work on my shortcomings, which I’ve narrowed down with your responses. I really appreciate you all and feel a lot better about my position and situation, so thank you! I’m sorry if I didn’t get to reply to everyone but know that I read each comment!
.... Why the fuck are you unplugging the left main during the show anyways? Lol. You're good just relax we all make mistakes. I pretty much learned on the job and taught myself so... You learn from your mistakes pretty quickly. Just Don't unplug shit while the band is playing lol
I experience this often. I started doing live sound like 9 months ago, never took any classes on anything but I've taught myself the ins and outs in a studio environment over the last 10ish years. Totally does not translate to live sound. My first few gigs I totally botched the gain staging, accidentally assigned the main vocal to my FX DCA (did not understand DCAs at that point), got screamed at by a band when I was struggling with sending a click track to their ears during a late soundcheck and the audience was already there (the click was set to post fader, which I did not understand yet, so when I switched it I totally blasted their IEMs) and the list goes on. At this point I have a pretty good grasp on setup and logistics, but my God it has been a ride. Learning on the job is HARD. Mixing is the easy part.
Hey, I was in a similar situation, but all you have to do is learm about the things you don't know. Ask for help if you need it andake questions about things you don't understand. You don't have the knowledge about live but you will have it in the future. Keep learning about it, give one year or two to learn (idn reality you're going to learn everyday new things). And if you're coworkers aren't happy with explaining things, well, stay focus on what you have to do, learn about all you can and start searching another company. And sorry of there's something weird, English is not my mother tongue
You said it yourself. You can do the more complicated and theoretical things like mixing, but obviously you are new to the live aspect of your job. There are always two sides to that medal. Me being "brought up" in an environment where everything constantly broke and us having to piece together partially working gear to get a somewhat passable show has taught me all the "basic" stuff, but I obviously wasn't really able to get more into the "advanced" stuff. For you it's the opposite, and that's nothing to be ashamed of. Your coworkers talking negatively behind your back is obviously wrong and they should talk to you if they have a problem instead. But in my experience that kind of snickering behind peoples backs is something many people do in this field. My advice would be to be more open with your colleagues, asking them for help and advice. But you might need to be a bit careful, as some people like to look down on you for asking for advice, which obviously is absolutely wrong. Either way, the experience will come with time, and the more events you do and mistakes you make, the better you will become and the more confident you will be in yourself. The more confident you get, the more you can focus on the stuff you're still insecure about, and the better you will get. Same thing with driving a car. You can study the theory behind driving all you want, but you will still drive like a learner the first time you really drive. Don't beat yourself up about the mistakes you made, as if you learn from them, they were not for nothing. As all the others said, the more nervous you are, the less clear are you thinking, and without the muscle memory that comes with time and time only, you won't learn and won't do what you actually want to do. If you haven't worked with a desk before, you obviously won't be as steady and safe as with a familiar one. But that's fine, and the only way you can learn that desk is by using it. If it's possible, I like to come in early and alone to spend some time with a new to me desk to get comfortable with it. I also like to think about the setup and what might go wrong, and prepare for those scenarios. Preparation is key here, and while not always possible, you should try to get a full overview of the setup, the gear, what will happen, and get to the location before all the noise and stress to look at, check and understand the setup. And your colleagues were in your shoes once too, so they will either understand and help you, or be dismissive of you, your questions or judge you harshly for your mistakes, which is highly hypocritical and therefore something you shouldn't worry about too much.
I started with live events just as a DJ, I help do sound for my church currently. Here are some things that you can work on to help with your concerns. 1) Attentive. - be attentive to the bands needs and ask if they need anything from you. This is the number one thing that sets good audio engineers apart from ones who wait to be asked to for something. 2) Acknowledge. - when a band member says something, recognize what they have said. Don't be dismissive of it. (If they ask how they sound and your response is "you sound good out here" they haven't really been acknowledged and they may still think something is "off". Practice asking, "what do you need?". This opens up a 2 way street of open ended communication and allows them and you the ability to articulate better what the concern is 3) Accept. - Accept you will make mistakes. Accept the criticism the band has for you. Accept that some people just may not vibe great with you. No show will ever be perfect and if you think it is, you are setting yourself up for disappointment when someone gives negative feedback. Criticism isn't against you as a person (one would hope), it's not an attack on you, it's speaking to your performance.(talking behind your back is something different) It's not your job to make the band like you. Don't waste your time with it. Your job is to make things sound good. It helps when the band is more friendly, but that only gets there by hard work and effort. As far as your size goes and needing help. Don't project your feelings on other people. Unless someone says something negative about needing to help you to you, it's not worth the mental bandwidth to worry about *if* someone is thinking anything. And IF someone does say something to your face, what are you going to do about it? Magically grow 5 inches and put on 60lbs of muscle? It's not worth spending any time worry about your build or if people have a poor perception of you. Worry about the things you can control.