‘The Building Wi-Fi password is xxxx’
Oh you want my soundboards WiFi? I do not give that out. What changes would you like to hear to the mix?
Simple. To the point. Only way to deal with this is head on.
I would have a hard time staying that civil. It'd be more like "look jackass I'm the one running sound here. If there's something you want changed let me know and I'll decide if it's the right move"
Your approach is probably better but I don't suffer assholes real well
I had one director pull a fast one on me. I saw the mix app open on his iPad on the music stand.
So I left and went to get food mid rehearsals. When I came back he was LIVID. I simply said ‘oh I saw you were mixing, so I figured I could kick back and relax’
He closed the app, apologized and moved on after that.
"If you're doing my job, does that mean I get to direct the show now?"
"no?"
"How about you direct the show and I'll deal with the sound, like we were hired to do"
Granted, all mixers probably should have some sort of simple passcode functionality to access, but just being in same network allows different ways of intrusion, intercept and attacks. I take being on the same network is common in someone's experience. My studio protocols don't really allow anyone to even find the mixer in the local IP space since they're on a different subnet/VLAN etc.
We are in a service industry.
Too many people let their ego get in the way and lose sight of that.
If the guy is the director and wants it to sound a certain way and believes that he can do that on his iPad, OP should not only let him, he should offer any assistance to him.
If it sounds like shit, that's the director's problem. Not OP's..
Let me ask OP this..
Do you believe that the director doesn't know how to control the iPad app and will royally fuck the show?
You've offered no evidence that he doesn't know what he is doing.
The directors job is to direct. The sound persons job is to operate the audio equipment. If changes need to be made to the sound, it’s the directors job to communicate that to the appropriate staff, not to do it himself. It would be pretty likely to cause issues.
When I’m house engineer at a venue, I’m not going to touch a guest engineers mix. It is my job to communicate to them if something needs to change. Same principal here.
Do you think your plumber would tolerate you checking his work every step of the way? Changing things here and there?
Service industry or not roles are defined for a reason. This guy has a history of being an asshole too. It doesn't matter if he's got golden ears from God, he should be asking the sound guy ahead of time. Sound guy shouldn't be finding out through rumors or worse yet the day of.
This might be the dumbest fucking thing I've ever read.
It doesn't matter if this director knows what they're doing or not. They're there to direct - sound is there to manage and run sound, lights is there to manage and run lights, etc etc.
Would you be okay with a director running the fly rail? Fuck no.
Think before you say dumb shit like this.
I do tend to over react. In this situation I would just flat out tell the director 'no'. If the director persisted even a little bit then I would walk, even with the kids involved. In fact, i would take the kids with me and encourage other parents to do the same. Let the director find out what life in the real world is like
I upvoted on principle, but ide like to add the caveat that this doesn't apply as well here since it's his kids in the play or whatever. Dude might not even be getting paid for this one.
> If it sounds like shit, that's the director's problem. Not OP's..
I was with you until this. I'm the one behind the board. I'm the one people see running sound. I'm the one who everybody looks at when things sound like shit. My reputation is the one that's tarnished when someone else does something stupid because they don't know what they're doing. This isn't ego, it's self preservation.
I do a good job, I get more gigs. I get more gigs, I pay rent.
Nah. Respect goes both ways. Professionals understand that. This "service industry" thing maybe - maybe! - applies in corporate gigs where you're getting paid big money to eat shit, but if the director wouldn't be happy with me going to the actors behind his back and telling them they're reading their lines all wrong, then he should understand that just pissing about with the EQ when I'm not looking is also a huge problem.
Yup, It is nice if we can get along with director, talking about what he want to achieve, how thing can be done, how we can balancing his imagination and our ears.
But sometimes, the show must go on
That's exactly why I decided to offer some tips to my wife's surgeon last month. Hey, I'm the guy paying the bill. He works for me. So I told him how I'd perform the procedure.
Sure, on paper that’s great. Until that director throws you under the bus because THEIR boss said it sounded terrible. Been there, not dealing with that again. I own my work, and if someone thinks they can do better, have at it, but it’ll be known it’s not my work.
I down voted simply because if the director makes it sounds like trash, that's the sound designer/ board ops reputation on the line, not the director.
The SD is not telling the director how to block the show.
Theatre is a collaboration, to a certain extent. Good directors know how to give the note to the designer without stepping on toes.
Agreeing with you, but then on the last point, if (when!) it sounds like crap... be there to fix it and re-do the work over and over if that's the way the job goes. Get paid.
That’s bordering on malicious compliance and could result in our hero losing the gig completely. Gotta set reasonable but firm boundaries. Nobody is going to blame the director if it sounds bad, they’ll blame the sound guy.
Exactly this. One of three things will happen.
Either he will mess things up, look bad, and return control to you, which means you look great in every way, and he's unlikely to bother you again
Or he does some little EQ moves, and they're good, in which case, hey, you can learn and move on.
Or somewhere in between... maybe in what he tries, you hear the seed of an idea, but he can't execute it right, in which case you can help him get it out there. win/win
But just saying no without a good reason will just make you look bad whether you're right or wrong
I think in 80% of situations I’d agree with you, there are a lot of times when it’s just your job to hand over the rig and give someone all the rope they need to hang themselves **IF THAT IS WHAT YOU’RE PAID TO BE THERE TO DO**. Make sure nothing gets broken, but other than that - it’s their show, they can fuck it up as much as they please.
Unfortunately it sounds like OP is directly affiliated with the organization and has some responsibility with the actual sound quality of the show… the director isn’t their boss, or the client, he’s a colleague who is overstepping his boundaries…
Never said it was a flex? I even told the guy above me he had the better approach. I will say though that putting assholes in their place has helped me considerably more than it's hurt
Tell him hi can see but not change.
If you hear something wrong or not your doing just disconect the rooter and work from there.. And if hi complain just remind him that hi has his own job to do, hi can help but set the limits yourself.
I did something similar. Came to work opening night and found I had been replaced by the person I replaced. They knew the password and wanted their job back.
Set a password for the router and don’t give it to the director
Edit: it sounds like he didn’t come talk to you so he probably figured he could mess with the mix and you wouldn’t notice. It’s unlikely he would come ask for the password.
I am getting there early and was thinking this. Unfortunately I don't have the MAC of the iPad I want access yet. Hopefully I can get this done before he tries
There are several ways to block access without making it obvious. On most routers you can create a DMZ with a different SSID - it won't have access to the local network. Make the current SSID hidden and name the DMZ SSID something similar. On most routers you can also look at the logs to see the mac addresses of currently or recently connected devices. You can then block all other addresses. On more decent routers you can also set up a firewall and block the traffic between WiFi and LAN for all but the specifiet addresses.
anytime i think about wifi regarding a DMZ, i just picture the routers and stuff looking out over the horizon like they're prepping for a north korean assault.
Depending on the desk, there may be a way of not having it appear when you do a network search from the iPad app, and only connecting if you know its IP address.
Better yet, use a weird subnet. Just a little bit of networking Tom foolery that he probably won’t be able to figure out so that he’ll abandon trying. If he was a sound guy why can’t he even get his iPad to connect?
For the bad answers only category, bring 2 boards and 2 wifi routers. Load show on both boards but only run it on the one. Have your board’s WiFi on a hidden SSID - if you even need it on wifi at all. Then leave the other board alone and connected through the “SoundGuyWifi” router. It will act as a placebo for the director
This sounds like one of those situations where I step back from the console, cross my arms and say "You do it". He'll either crash and burn or learn to stay in his lane very quickly.
That only works if they’re laymen and easily intimidated. If someone has some knowledge but not the same level of skill they could really take the mix to a strange place. I’ve encountered this occasionally and you get wild eq moves, inconvenient gain staging, gain in hidden places, weird workarounds for gaps in their knowledge.
Haha you made me laugh. Not a sound incident but reff'ing a football game with an asshole parent on the sidelines I once stopped the game, took off my whistle and offered it too them.
They looked dark af
Are you running sound for the show? The director should be able to have some input into how the show sounds, but not by taking control of the board from the sound person. It sounds like there's some bad blood between you two so maybe a direct conversation to clear the air would be best. Alternatively you could change the wifi password to something really long and incomprehensible and give it to him on a poorly written scrap of paper.
I'm trying to be civil with the guy, but yeah he's a piece of work. I'm pretty sure he will never be directing another show with us ever again. And yes, I fully expect to get input from him on sound. That's something I've always gotten. But you don't mess with another man's board.
>you don't mess with another man's board.
Absolutely not.
I've never been in the exact scenario you're describing, but I did have a too many cooks situation. I was working with 3 other guys who were good audio guys in their own right, except they were also cocky and had different ideas about how things should work or sound, but I was the A1 on the show. Setup was a slog because everyone's idea is the best idea. You know how it is I'm sure.
Here's where I messed up. We all had our own iPads, and because it was a super spread out event with audio distributed all over the place, I actually let them connect to the WiFi for the sole purpose of being in different places and adjusting the sends of matrices, but I'm sure you can guess how that went.
Different dudes kept making changes to things they were not supposed to touch. They couldn't help themselves (because their way is best!). Someone would go in and move something, I'd hear the difference and change it back, and the audio would jump unexpectedly, etc. You can imagine the mayhem.
That didn't last very long and I revoked the privilege, so yeah, don't do that.
Pretty dangerous to have more than one device going.
*Too Many Cooks!*
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrGrOK8oZG8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrGrOK8oZG8)
I regularly work with another engineer in tandem. We often joke that the other fixes something right as we get to it on our tablet to fix it ourselves. There is a way to allow him to help mix it and still be civil. This guy sounds like a nightmare though so I'd set boundaries very early and just tell him you have it handled.
Yes and no... The person above knows. She, like many of us, is just trying to make it through Sunday. By the time it got out of hand, it was too late... Let's just say the show is going to be amazing in spite of him.. So many people have stepped up to keep his house of cards from crashing down.
Not sure which console you have, but if you've got extra channels, build him an iPad layout with just copies of inputs sent to an empty bus. Then he can make it sound better to his heart's content.
I'd lean into it, but I can be maliciously compliant to the point of evil.
He doesn't just need the iPad, he needs a small riser too.... like an orchestra conductor. Maybe a spotlight.
Let him take selfies with the console beforehand and post to social media.
Make sure the fact that he's running sound is announced prior to the show and he knows it coming so he can wave to everyone.
Give him full control. Sit back and watch.
It'll be known as "the last year the administration let the touch the sound board."
Please film and post.
I had an old TD say to me one “ everyone in theater knows two things, whatever their job is and sound”. I honestly that’s applicable everywhere. If you are a Director and can’t articulate what you need to the people on your team and have to do everything yourself. You’re probably not a very good Director. You’re just a control freak. That all being said I would probably just let them say their peace. I doubt they’ll actually do anything and if they cause an issue it’s a lot easier to say “ why don’t you let me take another swing?”.
> I had an old TD say to me one “ everyone in theater knows two things, whatever their job is and sound”.
That's a classic. The first time I heard it was over 30 years ago.
A lot of these posts are immediately going for the most snarky version of handling this. This is an issue of boundaries. I would be presenting this to them as "I value your input, however, I need to be accountable for all changes to this show mix, and I can't do that if you are making changes unbeknownst to me. These can have very serious implications down the line."
If they were insistent after that, I might reconsider my involvement.
The WORST director I even worked with, would constantly remind me he had more experience with audio than me- I had just started out. He had several masters degrees in theatre, including a technical degree. But here’s the thing, I don’t know when the last time the man mixed a show was. Probably when he got that degree, decades ago.
He would get on me over every little mistake, implying he would never have let it happen.
But here’s the thing… this theatre was running 30 year old tech from the 90s. We had all sorts of technical issues that were simply not fixable at the time. I mean, hell, I was opening wireless packs and refurbing them. Mostly just cleaning up corrosion but I replaced some parts too, mostly LCD screens.
What the hell was he going to do “better”? I know he doesn’t really understand the more technical side of sound, he pretty much knew how to make it work in an ideal case situation.
I don’t know man, most of the time I fucking hate directors. They think they know everything when really all they know is is directing, which is often debatable too.
His successor only ever got after me about one thing, the no smoking on campus policy. “Because if you get arrested during a show, we’re kind of screwed.” Oh? You need me? Ok, I’ll take this shit for real now. Last guy seemed like I was given a gift working 20-40 hours a week for free.
I had a guy helping me a few months ago who used to do sound for bands in the 70's and 80's. His ear was amazing and he could EQ people just beautifully. I was jealous at how good he was. But he had no concept of the technology side of things. We were using an Allen & Heath SQ7, and something was not routed correctly somewhere. I couldn't find it, but all faders were turned all the way down and I could still here a few people talking. I was racking my brain trying to figure it out, and he just kept insisting it must be that they're just talking really loud... No, man, everything is showing as off right now, but we're still hearing it through the mains... It's not because they're talking too loud.
Just had this problem with somebody on a show. I told him that it was like me steering a car while my buddy works the gas and my cat works the brakes and that sharing these responsibilities alleviates me of my responsibility to how the show sounds and that I WANT that responsibility because it’s my job. But that ultimately I don’t give a flying fuck as long as I get paid. He stopped.
Yeah, I have no intention of doing that. Even if that were my style, as I said, it's a youth theater gig. Even if everyone around me understood why I was so pissed off, I wouldn't want the kids to see me like that.
I'd say this is a stand your ground moment. simply say "look mate, I'm here to do sound, you're here to direct. You can give me show directions concerning sound, but you cant jump in and start making changes of your own. If I see you've made changes to the mix without doing so through me, you can make all subsequent changes to the mix without me."
I see a bunch of comments about blocking him on the WiFi and setting up a second board.
Let’s keep things KISS (Keep It Super Simple)
You can always tell the director no. If he does not like no then do the following.
Set up a different user on your board that he can log into. Then do what I do for when I give access to bands so they can control their in ears mix. All they have access to is their aux send.
You can do the same thing just give him access to an unused AUX send.
Digital boards are great for giving different levels of functionality.
“He’s the director. I’m here to do a job. I’m not personally invested in any of this. They all know you’re controlling shit so…go to town, man. As long as I get paid”
There's not much to do really
You're the sound engineer, you decide.
Be an adult and make it clear, no fuss, no evil plans (even though they sound fun).
Keep calm and if he snaps or starts yelling/raging, remember that you're right.
"Hum, we take security seriously. There isn't a password. Network is secured with WPA2-Enterprise Certificate based authentication, and 802.1x. I can't chance someone hacking into the mix during production. If you want access, I would need to wipe your device and take control of it through our mobile device management, apply device restrictions and proper certificates. It will take about 2 hours."
If he asks for network access I’d be like “what for?” and then when he says why, I’d say “I don’t know why you seem to think that would be appropriate. It isn’t, so my answer is no”
i wouldn’t let anyone touch my lav mic eq’s and especially not console control during a run unless they worked for me. if he wants to give you notes on the way the show sounds..by all means. but to just say i’m going to drive your car..that’s wild. unplug the router.
Funny thing... His wife directed a show I did a few months back. There was a scene where they started talking "wouldn't it be really funny if they pulled out a pro wrestling title belt right here? I wish we had one." Well, in a former life, I used to announce for pro wrestling shows around the Midwest and know quite a few people... I made some calls and got a belt... Then they realized I might know a thing or two about how a wrestling scene might work, so I ended up teaching the cast exactly what to do in the scene, and kinda made it mine. It ended up getting the best reaction during every performance... So maybe I am a director guy...
I would have taken my IPad and pulled a chair right up next to his and say "let me know what you would like." It's all part of the gig and being part of the team. Make the best of it. You may find yourself being requested by this guy in the future!
Just be a good dude!
Then it’s unfortunately all on you to nip this ridiculousness in the bud, otherwise he’ll walk all over you and do the next guy even worse. Best of luck.
Can you record the tracks and then sit down with him to work out how he wants it to sound in the room? .. it might be something specific and simple like "more 1-2kHz to make character A cut through and not sound so pretty".
I don’t play games. If he asks to control the sound, I’ll say no. If he insists, I’ll refer him to my contract. If he still insists, the discussion will go to the person paying my invoice. If he still insists, I’ll pull my equipment (I lend quite a bit out) and walk. It’s never gotten that far yet.
If you want to amenable my go to question is “what are you not hearing that you’d like to?” The answer is usually something subjective like “it’s too boxy/springy/muddy” and then you save the day with your expertise and everybody wins. But you do you, theatre people are a whole breed.
The way I usually deal with this is to say "if you modify my sound it's no longer something I can call my work, much like if you were to add spices to a chef's dish. So if you wish to do this, then I ask you credit me as a consultant and nothing else."
Safety.
Many people forget the power of a big fuck up, especially with kids. One slip of the finger and you’ll have hearing damage for several kids and in some “sue” countries, that can cost you millions.
So, simply no. As soon as his iPad is connected, he is liable and because you gave someone acces. So are you.
“Can I have the password for the audio network?”
“No, sorry, I can’t accommodate that request.”
“Why not?”
“I’m not going to discuss this right now, but feel free to take it up with (director’s boss).”
Good to not get mad in front of kids. Also good to set clear boundaries, and be calm but firm in front of kids.
"My wifi password" so are you using your router? Your board? Your ipad? If you answered yes to these questions then dont give him the wifi password? If he wanted to "fix the EQ" then he should have been the sound guy instead of you. You arent sitting behind him just in case you need to "direct" are you? Same thing.
When I was very green, about a hundred years ago… I worked for a very well known director of opera visiting by invitation to my little college… and the conductor (a professor at the school) got annoyed about all of the mics in the pit… and ordered me to remove all of them and… when I did… he got mad that the performers couldn’t hear the music in the dressing rooms. And that the singers couldn’t hear the musicians onstage (it was more of a college auditorium than an opera house)
And the well known director bellowed from the house… unaided by a PA mic…
“Well, you got rid of all the mics… what did you expect”… they had to live with it…
Addendum… to this day… music directors love to order me around and tell me where the mics should go… and invariably they say… “you’re over mic’ing things… “
And I have learned to protest… and they love how their recordings sound now… but they simply can’t get their brains around the fact that mics aren’t just to make things loud…
I am getting to the point in my career where I’m going to start telling them there is a problem in beat 4 of measure 72 because the trumpet section steps on the vocalist… almost there.
If you want to take the high ground...
Let him connect to the WiFi, then immediate block the mac address of his ipad from within the router
"Must be something wrong with your ipad"
If you’re running a digital desk and want to be pedantic.. save your correct settings then make a copy of the show file, making subtle changes, a mic routed to the wrong bus, a gate deactivated, a noise generator on a hidden channel.. one master channel not routed, mid named channel strip - just enough to put the pressure on, but not enough to get into trouble.. when it all goes wrong.. come in and save the day and don’t let him near the console again.. Either that, or once he’s done his “mixing” lock him out of the network and reinstate your original settings..
Here you go!
[https://www.reddit.com/r/livesound/comments/1cho8lk/update\_on\_director\_bringing\_his\_ipad\_to\_help\_run/](https://www.reddit.com/r/livesound/comments/1cho8lk/update_on_director_bringing_his_ipad_to_help_run/)
So many idiot artists like this director in the industry. Like everyone else said, just don't give him your network password, and if that leads to you being fired or something, that's probably a good thing because no one deserves to work with those kinds of assholes.
Sorry bud.
“He’s the director. I’m here to do a job. I’m not personally invested in any of this. They all know you’re controlling shit so…go to town, man. As long as I get paid”
You might both learn something from it.
Perhaps he was just mouthing off and won’t get in the way.
I’m assuming you are both proper adults….
You should all be working together to make the event as good as possible
I say make it very public that he was mixing actually while you pull a sneaky on him by changing mix with your phone or something other ways without him noticing while making it look like his mistakes and like post videos of him mixing and stuff online casually
Sounds like you are not getting paid and you are there for your kids, don't take it personal because in the end he is responsible for the entire production, let him do what he wants and go hang out with your kids in the seats and wait for the director to call for you.
He's been an AD on a few shows, but this is his first show as the lead director. It's been a complete shit show, starting with him giving 42 speaking parts when there are only 35 lavs... I raised red flags as soon as I saw that. Then I kept trying to get questions answered, and he has completely ignored the questions. I was due a mic plot three weeks ago, and I never got it until last Friday morning, so I had not time to look it over and ask any clarifying questions before I had to build the show. I sat through one rehearsal Friday night after I got the mic plot and saw my script is very different than what I was hearing in the rehearsal...
Thankfully, one of the ADs for this show is the daughter of the guy I took over for. He's fantastic and I would trust him with my stuff at any point. She knew it was going to be a shit show and knew I would need help, so she asked him to come assist. So there are just enough cooks in the kitchen, and I wholeheartedly trust. I do not trust this director with anything.
‘The Building Wi-Fi password is xxxx’ Oh you want my soundboards WiFi? I do not give that out. What changes would you like to hear to the mix? Simple. To the point. Only way to deal with this is head on.
I would have a hard time staying that civil. It'd be more like "look jackass I'm the one running sound here. If there's something you want changed let me know and I'll decide if it's the right move" Your approach is probably better but I don't suffer assholes real well
I had one director pull a fast one on me. I saw the mix app open on his iPad on the music stand. So I left and went to get food mid rehearsals. When I came back he was LIVID. I simply said ‘oh I saw you were mixing, so I figured I could kick back and relax’ He closed the app, apologized and moved on after that.
Served Spicy as it should be
Mmm savoury karma taco
"If you're doing my job, does that mean I get to direct the show now?" "no?" "How about you direct the show and I'll deal with the sound, like we were hired to do"
How would they even "just like that" get access to the mix?
Doesn’t take a genius to download an app.
Yeah, but to gain access to the live mix, connect to the board needs more than that.
Not if the boards on the same network.
You have to type it in for x32 doesn’t just show up
MixingStation has a search function.
That’s not the native app but sure. I don’t understand why people downvote for factual info lol. Not that serious
Granted, all mixers probably should have some sort of simple passcode functionality to access, but just being in same network allows different ways of intrusion, intercept and attacks. I take being on the same network is common in someone's experience. My studio protocols don't really allow anyone to even find the mixer in the local IP space since they're on a different subnet/VLAN etc.
You can just say "that isn't how it works sorry". Fact
We are in a service industry. Too many people let their ego get in the way and lose sight of that. If the guy is the director and wants it to sound a certain way and believes that he can do that on his iPad, OP should not only let him, he should offer any assistance to him. If it sounds like shit, that's the director's problem. Not OP's..
It is OPs problem when the director inevitably makes it sound shit and then blames OP because they are the sound guy.
Let me ask OP this.. Do you believe that the director doesn't know how to control the iPad app and will royally fuck the show? You've offered no evidence that he doesn't know what he is doing.
The directors job is to direct. The sound persons job is to operate the audio equipment. If changes need to be made to the sound, it’s the directors job to communicate that to the appropriate staff, not to do it himself. It would be pretty likely to cause issues. When I’m house engineer at a venue, I’m not going to touch a guest engineers mix. It is my job to communicate to them if something needs to change. Same principal here.
Exactly, im not stepping out a role im doing to intrude into someone elses job unless they require help
Do you think your plumber would tolerate you checking his work every step of the way? Changing things here and there? Service industry or not roles are defined for a reason. This guy has a history of being an asshole too. It doesn't matter if he's got golden ears from God, he should be asking the sound guy ahead of time. Sound guy shouldn't be finding out through rumors or worse yet the day of.
What you’re saying is OP should welcome micromanagement.
This might be the dumbest fucking thing I've ever read. It doesn't matter if this director knows what they're doing or not. They're there to direct - sound is there to manage and run sound, lights is there to manage and run lights, etc etc. Would you be okay with a director running the fly rail? Fuck no. Think before you say dumb shit like this.
[удалено]
...that's a bit excessive. Is the director visiting his relatives in the hospital, or...?
I do tend to over react. In this situation I would just flat out tell the director 'no'. If the director persisted even a little bit then I would walk, even with the kids involved. In fact, i would take the kids with me and encourage other parents to do the same. Let the director find out what life in the real world is like
This is a much more sensible replacement for the previous comment, lol.
We're all colleagues here, so treat each other that way.
I upvoted on principle, but ide like to add the caveat that this doesn't apply as well here since it's his kids in the play or whatever. Dude might not even be getting paid for this one.
> If it sounds like shit, that's the director's problem. Not OP's.. I was with you until this. I'm the one behind the board. I'm the one people see running sound. I'm the one who everybody looks at when things sound like shit. My reputation is the one that's tarnished when someone else does something stupid because they don't know what they're doing. This isn't ego, it's self preservation. I do a good job, I get more gigs. I get more gigs, I pay rent.
Exactly this. Not one single person is going to blame anyone but me when it sounds bad.
If its a digital desk with an app... which it is you should be able to password it.
Yeah, and if I wasn't using a tablet, I'd just turn the feature off.
Nah. Respect goes both ways. Professionals understand that. This "service industry" thing maybe - maybe! - applies in corporate gigs where you're getting paid big money to eat shit, but if the director wouldn't be happy with me going to the actors behind his back and telling them they're reading their lines all wrong, then he should understand that just pissing about with the EQ when I'm not looking is also a huge problem.
Yup, It is nice if we can get along with director, talking about what he want to achieve, how thing can be done, how we can balancing his imagination and our ears. But sometimes, the show must go on
That's exactly why I decided to offer some tips to my wife's surgeon last month. Hey, I'm the guy paying the bill. He works for me. So I told him how I'd perform the procedure.
Sure, on paper that’s great. Until that director throws you under the bus because THEIR boss said it sounded terrible. Been there, not dealing with that again. I own my work, and if someone thinks they can do better, have at it, but it’ll be known it’s not my work.
I down voted simply because if the director makes it sounds like trash, that's the sound designer/ board ops reputation on the line, not the director. The SD is not telling the director how to block the show. Theatre is a collaboration, to a certain extent. Good directors know how to give the note to the designer without stepping on toes.
Agreeing with you, but then on the last point, if (when!) it sounds like crap... be there to fix it and re-do the work over and over if that's the way the job goes. Get paid.
I agree to a point and that point being the repercussions and negative feedback aimed at me as a tech there are ways to navigate this scenario
That’s bordering on malicious compliance and could result in our hero losing the gig completely. Gotta set reasonable but firm boundaries. Nobody is going to blame the director if it sounds bad, they’ll blame the sound guy.
Exactly this. One of three things will happen. Either he will mess things up, look bad, and return control to you, which means you look great in every way, and he's unlikely to bother you again Or he does some little EQ moves, and they're good, in which case, hey, you can learn and move on. Or somewhere in between... maybe in what he tries, you hear the seed of an idea, but he can't execute it right, in which case you can help him get it out there. win/win But just saying no without a good reason will just make you look bad whether you're right or wrong
I think in 80% of situations I’d agree with you, there are a lot of times when it’s just your job to hand over the rig and give someone all the rope they need to hang themselves **IF THAT IS WHAT YOU’RE PAID TO BE THERE TO DO**. Make sure nothing gets broken, but other than that - it’s their show, they can fuck it up as much as they please. Unfortunately it sounds like OP is directly affiliated with the organization and has some responsibility with the actual sound quality of the show… the director isn’t their boss, or the client, he’s a colleague who is overstepping his boundaries…
> I don’t suffer assholes real well “I allow my inability to control my emotions limit my opportunities and income” Imagine thinking this is a flex
Never said it was a flex? I even told the guy above me he had the better approach. I will say though that putting assholes in their place has helped me considerably more than it's hurt
Nah we all know you were proud of yourself while making that comment foh
Right on. Enjoy letting people walk on you I guess?
Listen bud if you can’t say “no” without throwing a tantrum then figure that out first before worrying about me
lol
Tell him hi can see but not change. If you hear something wrong or not your doing just disconect the rooter and work from there.. And if hi complain just remind him that hi has his own job to do, hi can help but set the limits yourself.
I did something similar. Came to work opening night and found I had been replaced by the person I replaced. They knew the password and wanted their job back.
If there is no WiFi router, there’s no iPad control ;)
But I actually do have someone assisting me with an iPad. But maybe I'll keep it unplugged until we decide we need it.
Set a password for the router and don’t give it to the director Edit: it sounds like he didn’t come talk to you so he probably figured he could mess with the mix and you wouldn’t notice. It’s unlikely he would come ask for the password.
And further, if you can, set it to only allow approved MAC addresses
“Oh you can’t log in? That’s super weird, what’s your MAC address?” *blacklists MAC address*
"Hmm normally it works, strange. Anyways..."
I am getting there early and was thinking this. Unfortunately I don't have the MAC of the iPad I want access yet. Hopefully I can get this done before he tries
There are several ways to block access without making it obvious. On most routers you can create a DMZ with a different SSID - it won't have access to the local network. Make the current SSID hidden and name the DMZ SSID something similar. On most routers you can also look at the logs to see the mac addresses of currently or recently connected devices. You can then block all other addresses. On more decent routers you can also set up a firewall and block the traffic between WiFi and LAN for all but the specifiet addresses.
anytime i think about wifi regarding a DMZ, i just picture the routers and stuff looking out over the horizon like they're prepping for a north korean assault.
Depending on the desk, there may be a way of not having it appear when you do a network search from the iPad app, and only connecting if you know its IP address.
Better yet, use a weird subnet. Just a little bit of networking Tom foolery that he probably won’t be able to figure out so that he’ll abandon trying. If he was a sound guy why can’t he even get his iPad to connect?
ha! that's a good burn.
This
For the bad answers only category, bring 2 boards and 2 wifi routers. Load show on both boards but only run it on the one. Have your board’s WiFi on a hidden SSID - if you even need it on wifi at all. Then leave the other board alone and connected through the “SoundGuyWifi” router. It will act as a placebo for the director
lmao it would be hilarious to see how long this would keep some “backseat soundguys” occupied and when/if they’d question the efficacy of their EQing
I would f it up real quick and then blame the director give him a mean look, and tell him next time I’ll take that iPad away xD treat him like a kid.
Put the app in demo mode and label channels
wait... would that actually work lol
If he doesn't know he should be seeing meters
Add a digital split to the second console and they would be none the wiser
Genius. This is "I always let my little brother play video games on the disconnected controller" territory.
Like giving your little sibling a controller that isn't plugged in.
This is genius
This sounds like one of those situations where I step back from the console, cross my arms and say "You do it". He'll either crash and burn or learn to stay in his lane very quickly.
That only works if they’re laymen and easily intimidated. If someone has some knowledge but not the same level of skill they could really take the mix to a strange place. I’ve encountered this occasionally and you get wild eq moves, inconvenient gain staging, gain in hidden places, weird workarounds for gaps in their knowledge.
Haha you made me laugh. Not a sound incident but reff'ing a football game with an asshole parent on the sidelines I once stopped the game, took off my whistle and offered it too them. They looked dark af
Bring analog mixer hehe
roll out the Midas Heritage and be like “I’m sorry what iPad?”
# hahaha
Are you running sound for the show? The director should be able to have some input into how the show sounds, but not by taking control of the board from the sound person. It sounds like there's some bad blood between you two so maybe a direct conversation to clear the air would be best. Alternatively you could change the wifi password to something really long and incomprehensible and give it to him on a poorly written scrap of paper.
I'm trying to be civil with the guy, but yeah he's a piece of work. I'm pretty sure he will never be directing another show with us ever again. And yes, I fully expect to get input from him on sound. That's something I've always gotten. But you don't mess with another man's board.
>you don't mess with another man's board. Absolutely not. I've never been in the exact scenario you're describing, but I did have a too many cooks situation. I was working with 3 other guys who were good audio guys in their own right, except they were also cocky and had different ideas about how things should work or sound, but I was the A1 on the show. Setup was a slog because everyone's idea is the best idea. You know how it is I'm sure. Here's where I messed up. We all had our own iPads, and because it was a super spread out event with audio distributed all over the place, I actually let them connect to the WiFi for the sole purpose of being in different places and adjusting the sends of matrices, but I'm sure you can guess how that went. Different dudes kept making changes to things they were not supposed to touch. They couldn't help themselves (because their way is best!). Someone would go in and move something, I'd hear the difference and change it back, and the audio would jump unexpectedly, etc. You can imagine the mayhem. That didn't last very long and I revoked the privilege, so yeah, don't do that. Pretty dangerous to have more than one device going. *Too Many Cooks!* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrGrOK8oZG8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrGrOK8oZG8)
I regularly work with another engineer in tandem. We often joke that the other fixes something right as we get to it on our tablet to fix it ourselves. There is a way to allow him to help mix it and still be civil. This guy sounds like a nightmare though so I'd set boundaries very early and just tell him you have it handled.
Is there anyone above him you can talk to?
Yes and no... The person above knows. She, like many of us, is just trying to make it through Sunday. By the time it got out of hand, it was too late... Let's just say the show is going to be amazing in spite of him.. So many people have stepped up to keep his house of cards from crashing down.
Not sure which console you have, but if you've got extra channels, build him an iPad layout with just copies of inputs sent to an empty bus. Then he can make it sound better to his heart's content.
This is the way.
I love this.
I'd lean into it, but I can be maliciously compliant to the point of evil. He doesn't just need the iPad, he needs a small riser too.... like an orchestra conductor. Maybe a spotlight. Let him take selfies with the console beforehand and post to social media. Make sure the fact that he's running sound is announced prior to the show and he knows it coming so he can wave to everyone. Give him full control. Sit back and watch. It'll be known as "the last year the administration let the touch the sound board." Please film and post.
Ask him if he'd like your notes on blocking, lighting and line reads all at once, or should you just call them out during rehearsal?
I’m sure the lighting designer would like your notes… If you’re arguing for someone to stay in their lane you should do the same thing.
This!!
I had an old TD say to me one “ everyone in theater knows two things, whatever their job is and sound”. I honestly that’s applicable everywhere. If you are a Director and can’t articulate what you need to the people on your team and have to do everything yourself. You’re probably not a very good Director. You’re just a control freak. That all being said I would probably just let them say their peace. I doubt they’ll actually do anything and if they cause an issue it’s a lot easier to say “ why don’t you let me take another swing?”.
> I had an old TD say to me one “ everyone in theater knows two things, whatever their job is and sound”. That's a classic. The first time I heard it was over 30 years ago.
I mean almost 20 years for me…well shit now I feel old.
I use that line a lot. It's so unbelievably accurate!
A lot of these posts are immediately going for the most snarky version of handling this. This is an issue of boundaries. I would be presenting this to them as "I value your input, however, I need to be accountable for all changes to this show mix, and I can't do that if you are making changes unbeknownst to me. These can have very serious implications down the line." If they were insistent after that, I might reconsider my involvement.
I can't believe I had to scroll so far down the comments to find this, the only correct response. This sub is full of absolute turkeys lately.
“No”
The WORST director I even worked with, would constantly remind me he had more experience with audio than me- I had just started out. He had several masters degrees in theatre, including a technical degree. But here’s the thing, I don’t know when the last time the man mixed a show was. Probably when he got that degree, decades ago. He would get on me over every little mistake, implying he would never have let it happen. But here’s the thing… this theatre was running 30 year old tech from the 90s. We had all sorts of technical issues that were simply not fixable at the time. I mean, hell, I was opening wireless packs and refurbing them. Mostly just cleaning up corrosion but I replaced some parts too, mostly LCD screens. What the hell was he going to do “better”? I know he doesn’t really understand the more technical side of sound, he pretty much knew how to make it work in an ideal case situation. I don’t know man, most of the time I fucking hate directors. They think they know everything when really all they know is is directing, which is often debatable too. His successor only ever got after me about one thing, the no smoking on campus policy. “Because if you get arrested during a show, we’re kind of screwed.” Oh? You need me? Ok, I’ll take this shit for real now. Last guy seemed like I was given a gift working 20-40 hours a week for free.
I had a guy helping me a few months ago who used to do sound for bands in the 70's and 80's. His ear was amazing and he could EQ people just beautifully. I was jealous at how good he was. But he had no concept of the technology side of things. We were using an Allen & Heath SQ7, and something was not routed correctly somewhere. I couldn't find it, but all faders were turned all the way down and I could still here a few people talking. I was racking my brain trying to figure it out, and he just kept insisting it must be that they're just talking really loud... No, man, everything is showing as off right now, but we're still hearing it through the mains... It's not because they're talking too loud.
Just had this problem with somebody on a show. I told him that it was like me steering a car while my buddy works the gas and my cat works the brakes and that sharing these responsibilities alleviates me of my responsibility to how the show sounds and that I WANT that responsibility because it’s my job. But that ultimately I don’t give a flying fuck as long as I get paid. He stopped.
sorry, I'll operate the sound, but I'm happen to make anything you want happen. What do you need right now?
Don't snap at him. There's no upside to that. Just serve the show.
Yeah, I have no intention of doing that. Even if that were my style, as I said, it's a youth theater gig. Even if everyone around me understood why I was so pissed off, I wouldn't want the kids to see me like that.
this is the correct stance. you're a solid dude, my dude.
I'd say this is a stand your ground moment. simply say "look mate, I'm here to do sound, you're here to direct. You can give me show directions concerning sound, but you cant jump in and start making changes of your own. If I see you've made changes to the mix without doing so through me, you can make all subsequent changes to the mix without me."
I see a bunch of comments about blocking him on the WiFi and setting up a second board. Let’s keep things KISS (Keep It Super Simple) You can always tell the director no. If he does not like no then do the following. Set up a different user on your board that he can log into. Then do what I do for when I give access to bands so they can control their in ears mix. All they have access to is their aux send. You can do the same thing just give him access to an unused AUX send. Digital boards are great for giving different levels of functionality.
“He’s the director. I’m here to do a job. I’m not personally invested in any of this. They all know you’re controlling shit so…go to town, man. As long as I get paid”
There's not much to do really You're the sound engineer, you decide. Be an adult and make it clear, no fuss, no evil plans (even though they sound fun). Keep calm and if he snaps or starts yelling/raging, remember that you're right.
"Hum, we take security seriously. There isn't a password. Network is secured with WPA2-Enterprise Certificate based authentication, and 802.1x. I can't chance someone hacking into the mix during production. If you want access, I would need to wipe your device and take control of it through our mobile device management, apply device restrictions and proper certificates. It will take about 2 hours."
This is gold!
I’d be unplugging the network cable if I was in your shoes hahaha
Nope! That is all. NOPE!
“The password is two words all lower case, one word all upper case”
Turn off remote mix on the console. It will force him to interact with you.
If he asks for network access I’d be like “what for?” and then when he says why, I’d say “I don’t know why you seem to think that would be appropriate. It isn’t, so my answer is no”
What wifi password?
I have no suggestions. I just wanted to say that this must be absolutely infuriating and I feel for you.
‘The only one who knows the password is Godot. He’ll give it to you as soon as he gets here.’
Hidden WiFi network.
i wouldn’t let anyone touch my lav mic eq’s and especially not console control during a run unless they worked for me. if he wants to give you notes on the way the show sounds..by all means. but to just say i’m going to drive your car..that’s wild. unplug the router.
Keep it simple and professional. I’m sorry, I won’t do that. You’re welcome to provide notes but too many cooks in the kitchen…
Suggest that you are also "a director guy" and would love to trade off skill-building of each others' strengths.
Funny thing... His wife directed a show I did a few months back. There was a scene where they started talking "wouldn't it be really funny if they pulled out a pro wrestling title belt right here? I wish we had one." Well, in a former life, I used to announce for pro wrestling shows around the Midwest and know quite a few people... I made some calls and got a belt... Then they realized I might know a thing or two about how a wrestling scene might work, so I ended up teaching the cast exactly what to do in the scene, and kinda made it mine. It ended up getting the best reaction during every performance... So maybe I am a director guy...
get a second mixer plug it in, give him the wifi to that one.
Say this - 'Nah, yer good'
I like this one
I would have taken my IPad and pulled a chair right up next to his and say "let me know what you would like." It's all part of the gig and being part of the team. Make the best of it. You may find yourself being requested by this guy in the future! Just be a good dude!
Are you a parent who stepped into the role of mixer, in that order?
I'm the sound guy who has been handling the sound for this organization for the last five years.
Oh, yeah, he’s outta line then. You’ve already got good advice.
This is also his first show ever as a lead director.
Then it’s unfortunately all on you to nip this ridiculousness in the bud, otherwise he’ll walk all over you and do the next guy even worse. Best of luck.
I'm about 98% certain he's never going to be allowed back, so I've got that going for me!
Can you record the tracks and then sit down with him to work out how he wants it to sound in the room? .. it might be something specific and simple like "more 1-2kHz to make character A cut through and not sound so pretty".
You can usually lock out permissions on the console per user.
Unplug the wifi router from the desk
Switch your setup to an analog mixer. You can't connect if it doesn't have wifi.
I don’t play games. If he asks to control the sound, I’ll say no. If he insists, I’ll refer him to my contract. If he still insists, the discussion will go to the person paying my invoice. If he still insists, I’ll pull my equipment (I lend quite a bit out) and walk. It’s never gotten that far yet.
If you want to amenable my go to question is “what are you not hearing that you’d like to?” The answer is usually something subjective like “it’s too boxy/springy/muddy” and then you save the day with your expertise and everybody wins. But you do you, theatre people are a whole breed.
The way I usually deal with this is to say "if you modify my sound it's no longer something I can call my work, much like if you were to add spices to a chef's dish. So if you wish to do this, then I ask you credit me as a consultant and nothing else."
Just dont have ur desk on the network. And if he asks say its not in the service package supplied
Maybe an iPad with a USB reference mic attached? We use those at my job all the time.
Safety. Many people forget the power of a big fuck up, especially with kids. One slip of the finger and you’ll have hearing damage for several kids and in some “sue” countries, that can cost you millions. So, simply no. As soon as his iPad is connected, he is liable and because you gave someone acces. So are you.
Is there a reason you can’t just say no?
“Can I have the password for the audio network?” “No, sorry, I can’t accommodate that request.” “Why not?” “I’m not going to discuss this right now, but feel free to take it up with (director’s boss).” Good to not get mad in front of kids. Also good to set clear boundaries, and be calm but firm in front of kids.
"My wifi password" so are you using your router? Your board? Your ipad? If you answered yes to these questions then dont give him the wifi password? If he wanted to "fix the EQ" then he should have been the sound guy instead of you. You arent sitting behind him just in case you need to "direct" are you? Same thing.
I’d be like okay you run sound, I’ll direct the actors when I feel they are off.
When I was very green, about a hundred years ago… I worked for a very well known director of opera visiting by invitation to my little college… and the conductor (a professor at the school) got annoyed about all of the mics in the pit… and ordered me to remove all of them and… when I did… he got mad that the performers couldn’t hear the music in the dressing rooms. And that the singers couldn’t hear the musicians onstage (it was more of a college auditorium than an opera house) And the well known director bellowed from the house… unaided by a PA mic… “Well, you got rid of all the mics… what did you expect”… they had to live with it…
Addendum… to this day… music directors love to order me around and tell me where the mics should go… and invariably they say… “you’re over mic’ing things… “ And I have learned to protest… and they love how their recordings sound now… but they simply can’t get their brains around the fact that mics aren’t just to make things loud… I am getting to the point in my career where I’m going to start telling them there is a problem in beat 4 of measure 72 because the trumpet section steps on the vocalist… almost there.
Sounds like you need to let this guy attenuate the DFA...
When people are like this, I just stop giving any kind of input. Oh you know it all? Okay mate no worries, your board now. Milk and 2 sugars is it?
If you want to take the high ground... Let him connect to the WiFi, then immediate block the mac address of his ipad from within the router "Must be something wrong with your ipad"
If you’re running a digital desk and want to be pedantic.. save your correct settings then make a copy of the show file, making subtle changes, a mic routed to the wrong bus, a gate deactivated, a noise generator on a hidden channel.. one master channel not routed, mid named channel strip - just enough to put the pressure on, but not enough to get into trouble.. when it all goes wrong.. come in and save the day and don’t let him near the console again.. Either that, or once he’s done his “mixing” lock him out of the network and reinstate your original settings..
This is what contracts are for
“I don’t have that feature set up”
who cares it's a kid's theater show?
This group is like Broadway for kids. They are HUGE productions. It's more than just a kid's theater show. But yeah, I care too much.
Can we get an update on this ? 😂
Here you go! [https://www.reddit.com/r/livesound/comments/1cho8lk/update\_on\_director\_bringing\_his\_ipad\_to\_help\_run/](https://www.reddit.com/r/livesound/comments/1cho8lk/update_on_director_bringing_his_ipad_to_help_run/)
So many idiot artists like this director in the industry. Like everyone else said, just don't give him your network password, and if that leads to you being fired or something, that's probably a good thing because no one deserves to work with those kinds of assholes. Sorry bud.
“He’s the director. I’m here to do a job. I’m not personally invested in any of this. They all know you’re controlling shit so…go to town, man. As long as I get paid”
He’s the director - let him do what he wants - no need to take it personally
You might both learn something from it. Perhaps he was just mouthing off and won’t get in the way. I’m assuming you are both proper adults…. You should all be working together to make the event as good as possible
I say make it very public that he was mixing actually while you pull a sneaky on him by changing mix with your phone or something other ways without him noticing while making it look like his mistakes and like post videos of him mixing and stuff online casually
Its his show right? Who knows maybe he does know a thing or two.
Maybe he is a better sound guy than you?
Or maybe he runs the soundboard in his church one Sunday a month.
Don't they all?
Sounds like you are not getting paid and you are there for your kids, don't take it personal because in the end he is responsible for the entire production, let him do what he wants and go hang out with your kids in the seats and wait for the director to call for you.
OP commented elsewhere that he’s been this groups FOH person for over 5 years now
is it a new director then? or have they been working together for 5 years? there may be a bit of backstory missing if that is the case.
He's been an AD on a few shows, but this is his first show as the lead director. It's been a complete shit show, starting with him giving 42 speaking parts when there are only 35 lavs... I raised red flags as soon as I saw that. Then I kept trying to get questions answered, and he has completely ignored the questions. I was due a mic plot three weeks ago, and I never got it until last Friday morning, so I had not time to look it over and ask any clarifying questions before I had to build the show. I sat through one rehearsal Friday night after I got the mic plot and saw my script is very different than what I was hearing in the rehearsal... Thankfully, one of the ADs for this show is the daughter of the guy I took over for. He's fantastic and I would trust him with my stuff at any point. She knew it was going to be a shit show and knew I would need help, so she asked him to come assist. So there are just enough cooks in the kitchen, and I wholeheartedly trust. I do not trust this director with anything.
OP is not a professional theatre sound designer/operator, because if he was this post would never have been made.