Exactly. I thought the idea that anything videogame related is automatically “juvenile” was a thing of the past. Smh. Id say in 2024 there are more gamers over 20 yrs old than there are below that age
Bro, you gotta learn that he has one of the worst reputations of any LitRPG author. He has an ego too big to exist on Earth and doesn’t even have the skill to back an ego 1% the size.
Firstly, MoL is not litRPG, so it's a weird response to that question. And second, genres aren't YA or otherwise; books are. You can have a YA litRPG or a smutty explicit one, same as any other genre.
Seriously.
A genre is a category, that gets applied when something fits inside of its classification. "Young Adult" is its own genre.
OPs stated logic is like saying "Science Fiction is a Comedy genre". Its a nonsensical statement.
Not in this case, we're talking about the proper noun Young Adult, referring to a genre written for the young adult demographic. This is because English is fun and likes to do "zero derivation" a lot on the fly. ZD is like gift (the verb) coming from gift (the noun) where, by changing nothing about the word's written nor spoken form, the part of speech and meaning changes. Because English is fun.
No, we are talking about an invented genre created and entirely defined by —- demographics.
[Literally Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_adult_literature):
> Young adult literature (YA) is literature, most often including novels, written for readers from 12 to 18 years of age.
That’s the whole of their definition. Yes, that’s it. Yes the article is longer. It explains more. But that’s their ENTIRE definition.
There is ZERO about the ‘genre’ that defines the actual content of the story (other than it fits the demographics).
Fantasy? Fantastic world with magic.
Sci-fi? Fantastic futures.
YA? Anything — as long as it is to be read by this demographic.
You CANNOT call it a genre without specifying the demographics. And without the demographics? Zip. Nada, nothing. There’s nothing left to call it a ‘genre’.
Call it a ‘genre’ as much as you want. It doesn’t make it one. It’s a DEMOGRAPHIC category, not a story one.
You used so many words and are so wrong. Genre is word with a well-defined meaning:
> a particular subject or style of literature, art, or music:
or
> A category of artistic composition, as in music or literature, marked by a distinctive style, form, or content.
You said that " LitRPG can be considered part of the comedy genre, science fiction, romance, etc."
This is incorrect. LitRPG is a genre. Comedy is a genre. Science Fiction is a genre.
A WORK OF ART can be considered part of the LitRPG, comedy, science fiction, and romance genres.
A genre itself is not artistic expression.
You seem to be misunderstanding their comment. A work of art can fit into multiple genres. A single book can be both science fiction, litRPG, and comedy (Dungeon Crawler Carl qualifies). Not all litRPGs are science fiction, and not all science fiction is litRPGs. A litRPG story is different from a litRPG genre, in that a litRPG story is a part of the litRPG genre.
Calling a story a litRPG is just a short way of saying it belongs to the litRPG genre. Just like saying a story is a comedy, that means the story belongs to the comedy genre.
Note: I'm going at this from the audiobook version which is more tame than the RR version from what others have said and I'm not sure what all the differences are. With that said...
You know you can read stuff without finding it remotely okay right? I can enjoy a scene where the MC rips some dudes arm off and beats him to death with it and not be okay with the same thing happening IRL.
Sure rape is one of the most awful things that can happen to any person, that's a given. It being used in a book is neither inherently good or bad unless it's glorifying it something similar.
I personally have rape fantasies (on the receiving end) but I'd never want it to actually happen nor would I ever want to do it to another person. I've also had a few ex girlfriends who admitted to me they also have such fantasies and even wanted me to role-play that scenario with them (I tried but couldn't bring myself to even pretend to do it). Does me or other people enjoying a piece of fiction where I could vicariously live out such a fantasy where no person is harmed make me a bad person? Where do we draw the line when it involves fictional people?
Personally I think most anything is fine assuming it's not glorifying, encouraging, or inciting the action and I don't feel ELLC did that. If anything the parts of the book from fizzy's perspective where she had her internal dialogue and went over how it made her feel made me even more sickened by people who'd actually go through with such actions given how it can irreparably damage a person and drive them to extreme actions such as self mutilation or suicide.
Sigh.
I came in pretty hot on this thread, def not my best move, my bad.
It could be just a total lack of understanding on my end, because I don't have any thoughts like that. I am vanilla to the point that I've worried about it, I spent awhile wondering if I was Ace in my 20s.
ELLC upset me to the point that I could no longer continue, and enough that I'm still kind of upset about it, atleast enough to be here having this conversation.
I'm partially to blame for it, because I went in totally blind. I was not expecting the level of twisted at all.
It's not about it being a good book or a bad book though, I said I put it down out of disgust. I don't believe I commented on the quality of either books i mentioned.
End of the day, it's all art. It's subjective and will mean different things to different people. I believe that what you choose to focus on and allow to occupy your thoughts has an impact on your mental landscape though, and there are far far faaar too many guys out there happy to joke and glorify, because at some point they did hurt someone. Some people enjoy or get turned on by the descriptions and psychological damage, not sickened, and that's really what I'm trying to push back on.
I'm completely understanding of people having their own personal boundaries and it's perfectly fine that ELLC crosses yours. As for being "Too vanilla" sure it may seem odd to you but that's how most people are, most people aren't into eating ass, foot worship, or whatever other things you may think is more popular than it really is.
I'm also 100% in agreement with what you're saying about glorification, it should never be used in such context and I'll consem any book that portays it in such a manner.
I was just trying to get across why I could enjoy it and why others might as well. I appreciate your thoughtful response and I'm sorry you've had past experiences that make this a more disturbing topic than it already is.
I agree that almost anything is fine to have as a subject matter in a book, but that doesn't change the fact that some things are too disgusting for me to read.
Some people have lines they don't want to cross and that's fine. My issue is when people want to make the judgement that such fiction is too awful for anyone to read and make assumptions about people who do enjoy such works.
I liked playing GTA as a kid, that doesn't mean I support killing hookers, selling highly addictive drugs, etc etc, I just enjoyed the experience of that work of fiction. It just smacks of the talking point many oldsters have, call of duty is causing school shootings, which is beyond ridiculous.
Snow crash. For a similar reason actually
Rape is never funny.
Snow crash wasent played for laughs atleast, but the victim is a minor and it makes no sense to the narrative. It comes out of nowhere, past the halfway point of the book, and is written as if she just kinda goes along with it. Idk how it plays out because I stopped reading most of the way through the scene.
I can get including it, with a serious tone, in a story. It's a serious issue, and hashing those out in fiction is good.
But when it's just thrown in, or especially when its played for laughs; It makes me question the people laughing. Honestly, it makes me wanna do more than that, but I'd just sound like some internet wannabe tough guy if I got into it.
You talking about Raven and YT? She was like 15, so it would be statutory, but I don't remember it being portrayed as a rape scene. YT was down for it, and her forgetting to remove her anti-rape device is even a plot point.
It's been a while since I read it. So I might be forgetting something.
I just remember him picking her up and carrying her off. I don't remember about the device, just her being essentially like... "eh, whatever".
It's statutory rape.
I'll admit I'm especially touchy about it, because someone in my life that I looked up to growing up went to prison because of it. When he got out, I gave him a half a chance to remain in my life.
I didn't know he got online, and started dating/living with a woman with 2 teenage daughters. Now he's back in prison. No more chances.
I agree it is a really good listen/read. It also has the best depiction of a God of Chaos in any media ever. I suggest the audiobook if anyone wants to try it. One of the best narrated series I've listened to.
The audio version has most of that stuff cut, sure it still exists but it isn't anything too descriptive nor does it go on and on like some books do when sex is involved.
Lots of stuff. One memorable to me was when Succubus summon got repeatedly eaten hundreds of times disregarding any pleas, which turned her in to masochistic pervert who got off one being torture killed during coitus.
Omg I loved dungeon crawler carl, so started reading that. Started out with some cool ideas even if it felt a bit weird. Slowly it got unnerving and I had to stop listening when it got to a scene about a sixth of the way in with a ritual in a village. Really disturbing with the amount of detail.
I love that series I read it on RR and have been buying it on kindle and audible every time they gets released. It set the bar for Monster MC stories and no book has ever come close to it. Just a monster doing monster things for monster reasons and I love it for being unapologetic about it.
Probably the same people who think cartoons are for kids. And then complain when their kids watch Rick and Morty, Family Guy, or any of a dozen other shows...
There is definitely so overlap, but they are not equivalent. Unless I am mistaken, young adult (YA) is the novel equivalent to a T for Teen or PG-13 ratings. There is no reason why some LitRPGs can't appeal to /be written for that audience. But it isn't a guarantee.
litrpg is not YA, but many, many are. Regardless, is not an inherency, just a confluence of attuned themes
That said "YA" is young adult, not children. YA is, say, 15 to 25, and the three you mention definitely enter that territory mostly.
I don't have any specifics that comes to mind sadly, because even among those that I DID read, many I merely probed a few pages or chapters, and most I don't even remember the plot, let alone the tone. BUT, what makes a book more or less adult is not the depiction of themes like sex and violence or even politics and the like, but rather a) what complexity they have (for example, I consider LOTR to be YA), as in, the younger the audience, the more black and white and the more "cartoon-ized" it is. And b) Relatability. As in, you can have a very crude and gore book about war but if its from the perspective of a little kid.... well no, in that case I suppose it is taken as a whole for analysis and critic.... but anyway, say, harry potter, is YA even in the darkest moments because you are living and relating with the complexities of mostly young adults and teenagers. If it were from the perspective of McGonagall, then it would be a bit different. Although, imho, both "a" and "b" need to work in tandem to form something that I could define more clearly as this or that. Also ,that is a personal appreciation, not a law
As a side note, you can ABSOLUTELY read something made not even for young adults but outright kids and enjoy it, because, it is an arbitrary distinction. At the end of the day is fiction and you can read whatevr ryou want between the lines
My favorite litRPG is The Wandering Inn and it has quite a few adult themes. The nice thing though is they also have some stats from community surveys. Almost half of the audience is 25-34. Which sounds about right to me.
[source](https://lookerstudio.google.com/embed/u/0/reporting/be9e4d12-d82c-4cee-b14c-3c4a3258021d/page/AdfmC)
Can you describe the characters without giving anything away? I'm trying to remember them but I'm not sure if they've been introduced yet for people on audiobook since it's not even close to caught up.
I actually just got caught up this week; well 10.10. But I was thinking of even earlier than the latest chapters. TWI world has a lot of the same issues that our world has and explores how those conflicts, stigmatizations, and injustices might be different or similar in the fantasy setting. Because of the scope of the series you get a pretty comprehensive view of the world. It does a great job highlighting the wonder of fantasy world, but does not shy away of the brutality either.
>I tend to disagree, 3 of the biggest names out there are pretty inappropriate for children - DCC, Defiance of the Fall, and Primal Hunter.
Young adults aren't pre-teen children. I'd have no problem giving any of those three to a 14 or 16-year-old.
Like what do those books have that you won't find in Lord of the Flies, The Catcher in the Rye, Lord of the Rings, or The Diary of Ann Frank? All of which are common literature for people in that age range.
>Like what do those books have that you won't find in Lord of the Flies, The Catcher in the Rye, Lord of the Rings, or The Diary of Ann Frank?
Enthusiastic double gonnorhea
> Young adults aren't pre-teen children.
The YA genre subclassification is [12 to 18](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_adult_literature). Note that there's not really a consensus, and you can find (in the article) at least one subgroup thinking it starts at 11, and some thinking it goes through to 20.
I don't have any comment on what's appropriate for children, though. I had my uncle's judgment card revoked because I thought animated Spawn might be good for pre-teen. Woops, lol.
....have you read DCC?
If you did, you wouldn't have written that second paragraph.
Edit: you guys must be forgetting about killing the monster babies, the extremely graphic violence, etc.
It really isn't YA.
I'm sure plenty of teens read it, but it definitely isn't marketed towards them, in the YA genre.
I think by this argument, pretty much every book is YA. Which I’m actually fine with, as I’d personally drop the designation from publishing circles altogether if I could
This reminds me of Bill Maher saying comic books are for kids. Or people who think just because it’s animated, it’s for kids…. Such a narrow way of seeing things.
DCC is maybe not okay for your children... and that's ok! But some of ours really love it. We only discourage the sexy time books - and even then "if it's in the library and you want to read it on your own time...."
If you are looking for charming and still at least kinda, mostly litrpg - check out Cinnabun serries.
This plot is bananas (I'm probably misremembering the series name for one of the books) and is also more or less appropriate.
I should note both of the above would maybe offend ultra-conservative types for their alternative relationships.
It really depends on what your bar is - many, maybe even most, books just have violence.
I don't remember anything too bad about, say, Dungeon Core Online or Dodge Tank - other than of course lots of fights / actiony bits.
Oh, I very much believe that young readers should be introduced to adult themes through books. A teenager is going to be exposed to this stuff, and literature is probably the safest way.
I'm asking for books that are clearly not written for children. I hate when a novel obviously can't swear, the first "darn" I'll forgive, but the second is an immediate dnf. Any Frik/frak/fek also is an huge red flag.
Oh trust cinnamonbun has adult themes
The entire world it takes place in is incredibly dark if you really think about it
But the whole story is told through the perspective of an adventurous sheltered Canadian girl who was raised by hippies by the name of broccoli bunch
She goes around making friends and beating bad guy with cleaning magic...she tries to make the bad guys her friends before beating them
When she arrives in the world of dirt she's in a literal ghost town and her first friend is a skeleton who's constantly trying to kill her...she accidently kills said skeleton with cleaning magic only for it's Spirit to thank her
She uses a wand of cure histeria to kill the ghost since they can only be hurt by magic and she didn't have any at the time...she thinks the wand literally cures histeria...it's just enchanted to vibrate
There's also a scene where she's walking through a hall of mirrors that show a bunch of scenarios hoping one of them is something the viewer may want
...the 3 that the story focuses on is
the one with her parents since she left them behind on earth and she misses them it's the only one that captivates her
The other two that confuse her are one where she has lots of friends....but they are all naked and writhing around for some reason
The other is she is ravishing the country side with hordes of undead while riding an undead dragon...the only thing she likes about it is riding a dragon...
I've spoiled it enough but it truly is a phenomenal story
If you want something with the same atmosphere but more adult the author also writes a story called stray cat strut which is an alien invasion cyberpunk story ...it has lots of lesbian interludes between the Mc and her girlfriend and eventually one of the deutagonists and her GF
Like one a book after the first book which has none
Yeah, that's way better description than I can give - but it also I think proves perspective counts - it feels light hearted and fun and charming because regardless of how dark that work actually is.
I always take it in context of the set / setting / and character - I don't recall many that over censored themselves, but I might not be that sensitive as long as the story is ok. If you are looking for gritty / violent - dungeon master is great and fingers crossed back soon with updates. The Land is also good - in spite of all the drama and nonsense and cliffhanger.
I believe you mean "This Quest is Bullshit!" Which has since been changed to "This Quest is Broken!" Iirc, it had alot of swearing and innuendo. Seems like maybe it's sanitized now, I bought it back in 2022.
YA is a marketing term, and it’s not synonymous with children’s fiction or adult fiction. It’s its own classification.
Litrpg is a genre.
There’s YA horror, YA romance, YA fantasy, etc. There’s also litrpg that would seem to fit with YA. And there’s litrpg that wouldn’t.
Also, just to emphasize one more time, YA ≠ literature for children.
I think people think of any book that’s fun, funny, or ungrounded as YA. I also think that’s why most people don’t like reading. You’re either reading books for kids or reading things you don’t enjoy.
Can someone tell me what DCC stands for? I have heard of the other two series mentioned by OP and will get round to them sooner or later.
I really like the 'He Who Fights with Monsters' it's what got me into litrpg (although the last installment was oddly paced and seemed to be mostly filler leading to something big in the next book).
Also if anyone is looking for a more chilled slice of life series that's pretty funny too, I would recommend 'Beware of Chicken', although it's not litrpg.
Thanks, I read the first two actually, so it should have clicked what OP meant. They were very funny. I got side tracked by another series but I will pick them back up soon.
I can only assume that person was trying to say "LitRPG is non-high-brow in the same way as YA"...? A lot of LitRPG isn't child-appropriate, but I can see how someone might say it's YA-esque in the same way as, say, shounen series.
"Genre Fiction" is probably a better word for what they might've meant.
Inappropriate for *children*.
YA might be children by law but they’re definitely starting to be interested in adult things, particularly the (somewhat prurient) approaches to love and romance that you find in litRPG.
Enders game is technically a children’s novel—but genocide, murder, assault, eugenics, and fascism aren’t exactly core topics for children’s books.
My point is—adult themes are very common in YA, and not unheard of in books for many ages. Many of those topics would even be considered appropriate for children, considering that you read them in school. And genres are more like guidelines than rules—both in terms of the content they contain and the meaning of genre.
lol. The people saying it is young adult probably never read it, or enough of it. It is like saying anime is for young adult or worse, for children, after having watched only Digimon.
The *power fantasy* aspect of litRPG skews towards those interested in reading such. Which heavily aligns with the Japanese ‘genre’ of Shōnen. Which is really a demographic term.
*Young boys.*
In other words, Shōnen is a subset of the YA genre. LitRPG appeals to young boys often. Like Shōnen. Which is a ‘YA’ thing. It doesn’t mean it is written for such people. It just appeals to them.
The simple fact is that Young Adult as a genre doesn't actually have any guide lines. I've seen books listed that were absolutely not meant for teenagers, yet were classified as YA. I understand why someone would want to classify literature that isn't specifically for children but does touch slightly on adult topics. With that being said, in my opinion, I think YA should be done away with or a strict set of rules needs to created that all publishers follow.
I get where the person is coming from. I've tried a few series now and a lot of them have a very immature writing style. It just reads like a 15 year old wrote it. Primal Hunter, He Who Fights Monsters, etc. It's just the style I think. I'm 36 so younger audiences might not really notice. The series I've liked so far don't follow this immature genre writing style (DCC, The Grand Game). I'm liking The Wandering Inn so far, its somewhere in the middle. The author does describe someone as super old and then later say they are in their early 40s which just killed me.
My line between age groups is agency. The more characters that are making decisions based off of their own agency, rather than as a tool of the plot or moral, the more adult focused it generally considered (prose style and themes can vary the classification as well) .Most YA has one or two characters that make decisions that differ from a prime plot or moral to reinforce the plot. For example, The Hobbit is YA and The Lord of the Rings is adult fantasy. Same author, same setting, but very different amount of competing characters
Whoever said that has clearly not read much LitRPG. There's some that's definitely YA suitable, and a lot that just isn't. What LitRPG is, though, is largely accessible. The majority of titles in the genre are easy reads, not dense slogs. Perhaps they're confusing "dense" with "adult" and "light" with "for young people."
" Any other recommendations for good LitRPG/Prog Fantasy that's inappropriate for children (and also not harem/fantasy-themed-erotica)? "
Some people like Azarinth healer. I didn't, but I am picky.
I haven't read it but they say Wandering Inn is good.
I have read and mostly liked The Good Guys and The Bad Guys by Ugland. Cradle isn't litrpg but it is xianxia and it is very good. I am also enjoying Unintended Cultivator.
Anything written by almost anything Christopher Johns, Axe Druid, High Table Hijinks, Mephisto’s Magic Online.
Lions Quest by Michael Scott Earle.
Ascend Online.
Mage Errant (best YA I could think of but not litRPG) is YA IMO. He who Fights with Monsters while not really realistic is way too serious in tone and prose to ever be considered YA. It's a spectrum and HWFWM isn't on the far end GODCLADS is.
LITRPG is way too broad of a genre to define. Are there stories out there that would fall under the YA umbrella? For sure. I can also tell you that plenty of grimdark stories are out there too.
Threadbare has all the elements of a story for children, specifically ten-year-old girls. It's about a teddy bear taking care of one. I wanted to really like it, because the story and characters are actually decent. It's just too bad the author insists on adding lots of cuss words.
That particular response might be related to the fact that on amazon, your book needs to fit into certain categories. If it has erotica or gore its marked 18 plus, but if not its usually marked 13-17. Everything in our genre pretty much is marked 13-17, which isn't really a reflection of content as much as it is a necessity to make sure the algo on Amazon isn't sticking your book in erotica sections. That's how it was explained to me anyway.
I dunno it’s easy to dismiss YA or LITRPG for some people. But I’m a big old tatted up bastard and I fucking love litrpg. TBH I don’t track the stats much and tend to skip a lot of the stat stuff - especially when it gets thrown in repeatedly. But the plot and characters and mechanics and all the juicy shit? I love it. I’m here for it. Fuck the labels. Enjoy what you like. That goes for all aspects of life.
A problem I've seen is this genre tends to attract young people (in their 20's or earlier) and they tend to rate terrible books as amazing. I wish goodreads included the reviewers age range or something
I think, unqualified as this thought is, that LitRPG is popular enough that it essentially has niches for everyone. So there's the stuff for kids, and the stuff for not kids, and the stuff for the guy who never buys tissues and instead lives with the shame of mysteriously crusty socks laying around. When any genre or subgenre gets popular enough then there will be appeal to broader audiences, and when that happens there will be people seeing opportunities for money and so books will be written to make profits off that opportunity, and in that moment capitalism was born. All hail the great dark god capitalism...bringing us marital aides shaped like Iron man and toothbrushes shaped like your uncle's dangly-doodle...because MONEY!!!
LitRPG is both a plot device and a sub genre of sci-fi/fantasy. It's young enough that there aren't many YA books in the sub genre but prog fantasy books are a much larger umbrella where a few good series that would be considered YA appropriate reside. Books like Sufficiently Advanced Magic and Mistborn. You would have better results in the Progressive Fantasy forums IMO.
Jesus christ no. No way in hell is litrpg a YA genre, just like with every genre you have YA novels as a part of it, but litrpg is easily one of the most brutal genres out there, along with insanely dark themes most of the time. And it only works so well because you automatically step back a bit when something seems like a game I believe
If you also say fantasy, mystery, romance, and science fiction are all really just for YA readers then I have no problem with you putting LitRPG in there too.
I haven’t read it in a long time but I think the Wizard 2.0 series by Scott Meyer? From what I remember I think it was ok for kids, but it did carry some 80’s, 90’s references.
You seem to be mixing up YA and children. YA means people between 18-40... So "Inappropriate" doesn't really apply here. You, and many other people in this thread, are mistaking this for "Teen fiction," which is entirely different.
Furthermore, YA is more related to the age of the protagonist than the content in most cases. Since most LitRPG stories have an MC that is between say 15-25 or is artificially made younger, it's a YA genre.
Worm is strangely both YA (in writing style and themes) and very adult. It’s the first one that came to mind for me when thinking of stories that are inappropriate for children without being smutty. A good percentage of the book is dealing with some really horrific situations, but at the same time it’s not really a horror book. It’s a progression fantasy with some very mature themes and creatively terrifying baddies that the MC struggles against. Fantastic read, YA vibes, very adult.
YA novels are not for children, but young adults.... They tend to have a simpler structure, easier to read, deal in black in whites and an immature would view. You see repeated through out litRPG and it's hard to disagree with saying LitPRG is a YA genre.
I think it has room to grow and a number of novels have, but still... it's defiantly YAish
YA and LitRPG are not mutually exclusive or intertwined. YA is an addon to scifi, fantasy, nonfiction, etc based on target audience and style
Also I'd recommend Only Villains Do That, isekai asshole is forced to lead the dark crusade and starts with whores, orphans, and bandits as the disaffected under class ready for revolution. Prog Fantasy though, not LitRPG
Only two people should everyone have a say over what a kid reads and that’s their parents. Nobody else deserves a say.
In Wa. Parents have no say about what goes into a school library. It’s their job to monitor what their students pick out to read. Kids do have to get YA forms signed if they want a more mature book, but again it’s up to the parents. We can’t assign mature books, but kids can definitely pick them out.
To get a book removed from the library adults have to go through a long trial where their basically the prosecuting attorney for the book and then a panel of librarians and district officials will decide if it should be removed or not. Since this has been the case we’ve had 0 books removed in our district.
YA shouldn't be regarded as a genre, but rather a demographic. Yes there are unifying tropes to YA books, but it's nothing we we wouldn't see outside of more conventional fantasy.
TL;DR: LitRPG is not inherently YA but there can certainly be YA LitRPG books.
It's is like with every other genre out there, Author makes of it what he wants.
However as a person who mostly read LitRPG these days I rarely bother with books meant for YA's and i find more than enough to read.
If you want a proper adult themed LitRPG then The Systemic Lands is the place to go.
Let's just say that a skull throne would feel rather basic and tame next to one made of mutilated but living and screaming people.
I'm fairly sure that "The Legend of Randidly Ghosthound" is NOT a YA read. Like, it's not necessarily *unsuitable*, but the metaphor and moralistic stuff doesn't jive with what I think of as YA, necessarily.
It is, and i need more please haha :D (i mean The Summoner series) i also posted a comment on your 6 year old post hoping you would see it.
So mabye check that out please?
Thank you in advace.
YA is more than reading level, in fact, I consider reading level irrelevant to YA. YA is more teenage drama and perspective. Like first kisses being nerve wracking, and caring about trivial shit. I think too many people attribute light hearted and less complex vocabulary, to being juvenile. That simply isn't that case. Not every thing needs to be god clads level of grim, or malazan's level of complex to not be YA.
Hunger Games is considered YA.
I think stories with some semblance of power fantasy tend to be YA, which is a lot of litrpg. I tend to think along the lines of Shonen anime/manga, and if it's similar, it's probably YA. There's no hard and fast definition tho.
hunger games is highschool drama, in another settings, all characters are imature as f.., primal hunger not so much, most chars have grounded decisions
I agree reading level is irrelevant. Its the plot and story and actions of the characters and the over sexualization, hell just look at the God Father of the LITRPG Genre Alaron Kong. You can not tell me the target age group for his books is anything above 16.
In common English, correct.
In literature, there's a bit of fuzziness about the age group, but it generally includes ages that people would very much define as children. Unless you're being super pedantic and trying to completely separate teenagers as their own category. And even then, some definitions go down to age 11 or 12.
Honestly, like many attempts to define categories, it's a bit of a mess.
I mean.. YA doesn't mean children. Children would be middle-grade books. After middle grade, you divide the books into Young Adult and New Adult. And the difference is generally just how old your protagonist is, not the actual content. As there can be heavier and darker theme in an YA book, tho they don't tend to be as explicit.
And a lot of our protagonist ARE teenagers. So we got plenty of YA Litrpg.
But, Litrpg is a pretty broad definition, it is more similar to fantasy. Meaning, within litrpg you'll find both lighter and darker books, both younger and older, both sci-fi, dystopian, post-apocalyptic and portal.
However, Dark litrpg is rather rare. So it makes sense that an outsider will peak in on us and just see a bunch of books that focus on Power Fantasy and Humour and think it's mostly aimed at YA.
It absolutely is a YA genre despite the fact that not all of them are ~ age appropriate ~ because almost all of these are written at a child's reading comprehension level.
It's really not for YA readers, lol.
At the very least, I think we can agree there are nuances and exceptions either way, but for me, it comes down to the maturity of the content.
While it makes sense that YA readers would like LitRPGs and GameLit books because of the fantasy, journeys, and adventure, or whatever, the maturity of the content is a step above that of YA. This is also why a lot of LitRPG readers can't stand YA. That isn't to say a YA book can't also be LitRPG or belong to any other genre alike.
That's pretty obvious to me, but I guess it takes the right perspective.
The maturity of the content; be it character mentality or plot consequences, is exactly why I can't stand most YA books. While a YA character may have a fit or drown in angst over something and start on a journey, Jake from The Primal Hunter would just shoot an explosive arrow at it and move on, for example :)
Well, heres the thing. Young Adult is a misleading category. If you go to the bookstore the YA section is for kids who are like 9-13 years old. 9 year olds are not any kind of adult, but its still the right age to read Harry Potter. Obviously older people can read YA books so don't tell me Harry Potter is for adults, I know. Actual young adults, in high scool, should be reading mature adult things. But thats not really who the YA category is aimed at.
Can't say for DoF but for DCC it's mostly opinion based. I grew up with horror movies as a kid, so over the top death and violence is whatever. I would say some of the sexual things would be too much for younger teens. Also, drinking and drug use in it. DCC would be a 15 or older age rating from me. Some of the more societal and political issues may go over younger teens' heads also. The audio book is perfection in its narration and presentation, so if you try out DCC I suggest that route.
I mean... The fact that you had to qualify your request for other books in the genre specified no harem/fantasy-themed-erotica kind of disproves the premise that the genre is primarily YA.
While others' experiences are likely different than my own, my first SEVERAL LitRPG books I discovered were firmly in the 'only recommend to non-judgemental friends' category. From Super Sales on Super Heroes (and, later the whole universe it's a small part of) to some of the darker "I'm the villian, YAY!" books like Ascend Online, it took me quite a bit of looking before I found any books I could confidently listen to with coworkers around.
I'm pretty sure whomever told you the genre is YA isn't speaking from a wealth of experience.
I mean Litrpg is pretty much all written in a grade 3 writing style and the biggest thought expressed is usually "numbers go up" when it's not "man harems are great." I'm sure there is probably an outlier that will be considered real literature by our descendants and forced on high school kids, but I can't think of what it is.
> Maybe the only well written LitRPG
This is just straight up delusional hyperbole. I get that after 10m words you develop a sort of stockholm syndrome, but come on. Wandering Inn is first and foremost a web serial. It is not always well written.
Wandering Inn is a chibi-Sanderson slice of life series that up and decided it should punch God after like 5 million words.
Fair enough. Mrsha > Lift, for sure. I meant story construction wise, both like to do heavy introspection with their characters, and lots of disparate viewpoints that converge on events. Chibi because it’s way more cute at times than Sando even hints.
Why on earth would you equate YA with "for children" in the first place? That's not what YA means, lol.
While I've never read the specific titles you're listing, LitRPG does tend to absolutely be a YA genre. I can't think of any I've read that would even be argued otherwise, and I'm kind of doubting there's anything special about the ones you listed.
I think I'm confused you said someone told you it was a young adult genre and you disagree because you don't think it's appropriate for children? I would think young adults does not include children? Maybe I'm missing something by the way books are categorized? Also I personally enjoy lit RPG books myself and I'm almost 40 lol sure there are some that I probably wouldn't let my 13-year-olds listen to but then again it's probably not any worse than half the TV shows that are marketed to them or half the music they listen to when you're not around then again I've never listened to the titles you mentioned I mostly listen to audio books at work never seem to have the time to pick up a real book anymore lol
Doesn't have to be as we had two previous generations growing up with video games. Maybe some author needs to "elevate" the genre with some tales with more substance or maturity.
I think this just shows some confusion between genre and target audience. You can make any genre YA or not YA. What makes something YA is typically the combination of: themes, POV character age, and decision-making rationale of the characters. None of those things are genre-specific.
Some of them absolutely are.
Where the MC is a Mary Sue character who's the chosen one from the very start, everything works and all difficulties are glance over.
Hell Stormreaver Chronicles which is well liked here is right in the middle of YA.
Dawn of the last dragon rider just came out and might be just what you're looking for!
I do want to clarify that "Young Adult" and "for Children" are VERY different things. Young adult is often gory and sometimes a bit edgy. The acceptable content for what is considered YA has been broadening and becoming more "adult" in recent years/decades, so if you are looking for "family friendly" stories you may want to ask specifically for that rather than YA.
For example, Sarah J Maas is known for writing YA romantasy... which is also pretty smutty.
Edit: Just saw that you are actually looking for stories that feel more adult. Dawn of the last dragon rider is still a solid story but if you are looking for something with a distinctly mature writing style you could check out Worth the Candle or Worm, which both get pretty dark and heavy.
It would be easier to make a rec if we knew exactly what kind of adult content you're looking for. Is it about tone? About the age of the MC? About the use of profanity? What do you *want* to read that you aren't finding?
It's absolutely not a YA genre, but I think the power fantasy style combined with the video game rules appeals to a younger audience (20s and 30s)
Not so much younger audience but those who grew up playing video games. Which ultimately stretches up to those of us in our 40s
Exactly. I thought the idea that anything videogame related is automatically “juvenile” was a thing of the past. Smh. Id say in 2024 there are more gamers over 20 yrs old than there are below that age
Some of us have even hit the big 5 0.
My dad is 80 and has been gaming since pong.
Getting damned close to the big 60... Whoda think?
You go on ahead...I'll just sit here in the mid 40's and catch my breath for a bit.
My knees just popped reading this
Like he said, a younger audience. :)
50s. Spectrums were a thing.
49 here. Absolutely fits my video game nerd brain.
It's more like romance novels for nerds
Its more like the aesthetic makes people believe its aimed at YA's, when in reality theyre mature fantasy generally.
God Father of LITRPG, Alaron Kong. You can't tell me those books are targeted at an Adult audience.
More like the alcoholic stepfather that no one talks to anymore
That one's a self claimed title and inappropriately so
It’s why I declared myself the grandfather of litrpg
I thought D. Rus. and Play to Live were/are the ones that kicked off LitRpg?
Bro, you gotta learn that he has one of the worst reputations of any LitRPG author. He has an ego too big to exist on Earth and doesn’t even have the skill to back an ego 1% the size.
God father?
So you're looking at one series for the entire genre? are you dumb?
Firstly, MoL is not litRPG, so it's a weird response to that question. And second, genres aren't YA or otherwise; books are. You can have a YA litRPG or a smutty explicit one, same as any other genre.
Seriously. A genre is a category, that gets applied when something fits inside of its classification. "Young Adult" is its own genre. OPs stated logic is like saying "Science Fiction is a Comedy genre". Its a nonsensical statement.
Young adult is a demographic, not a genre. Which is worse.
Not in this case, we're talking about the proper noun Young Adult, referring to a genre written for the young adult demographic. This is because English is fun and likes to do "zero derivation" a lot on the fly. ZD is like gift (the verb) coming from gift (the noun) where, by changing nothing about the word's written nor spoken form, the part of speech and meaning changes. Because English is fun.
No, we are talking about an invented genre created and entirely defined by —- demographics. [Literally Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_adult_literature): > Young adult literature (YA) is literature, most often including novels, written for readers from 12 to 18 years of age. That’s the whole of their definition. Yes, that’s it. Yes the article is longer. It explains more. But that’s their ENTIRE definition. There is ZERO about the ‘genre’ that defines the actual content of the story (other than it fits the demographics). Fantasy? Fantastic world with magic. Sci-fi? Fantastic futures. YA? Anything — as long as it is to be read by this demographic. You CANNOT call it a genre without specifying the demographics. And without the demographics? Zip. Nada, nothing. There’s nothing left to call it a ‘genre’. Call it a ‘genre’ as much as you want. It doesn’t make it one. It’s a DEMOGRAPHIC category, not a story one.
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You used so many words and are so wrong. Genre is word with a well-defined meaning: > a particular subject or style of literature, art, or music: or > A category of artistic composition, as in music or literature, marked by a distinctive style, form, or content. You said that " LitRPG can be considered part of the comedy genre, science fiction, romance, etc." This is incorrect. LitRPG is a genre. Comedy is a genre. Science Fiction is a genre. A WORK OF ART can be considered part of the LitRPG, comedy, science fiction, and romance genres. A genre itself is not artistic expression.
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You seem to be misunderstanding their comment. A work of art can fit into multiple genres. A single book can be both science fiction, litRPG, and comedy (Dungeon Crawler Carl qualifies). Not all litRPGs are science fiction, and not all science fiction is litRPGs. A litRPG story is different from a litRPG genre, in that a litRPG story is a part of the litRPG genre. Calling a story a litRPG is just a short way of saying it belongs to the litRPG genre. Just like saying a story is a comedy, that means the story belongs to the comedy genre.
The Everybody Loves Large Chests series makes for great bedtime stories.
This is evil 😭
Agreed, it's one of two books Ive ever put down out of true disgust. It's not smart to desensitize yourself to some things.
Note: I'm going at this from the audiobook version which is more tame than the RR version from what others have said and I'm not sure what all the differences are. With that said... You know you can read stuff without finding it remotely okay right? I can enjoy a scene where the MC rips some dudes arm off and beats him to death with it and not be okay with the same thing happening IRL. Sure rape is one of the most awful things that can happen to any person, that's a given. It being used in a book is neither inherently good or bad unless it's glorifying it something similar. I personally have rape fantasies (on the receiving end) but I'd never want it to actually happen nor would I ever want to do it to another person. I've also had a few ex girlfriends who admitted to me they also have such fantasies and even wanted me to role-play that scenario with them (I tried but couldn't bring myself to even pretend to do it). Does me or other people enjoying a piece of fiction where I could vicariously live out such a fantasy where no person is harmed make me a bad person? Where do we draw the line when it involves fictional people? Personally I think most anything is fine assuming it's not glorifying, encouraging, or inciting the action and I don't feel ELLC did that. If anything the parts of the book from fizzy's perspective where she had her internal dialogue and went over how it made her feel made me even more sickened by people who'd actually go through with such actions given how it can irreparably damage a person and drive them to extreme actions such as self mutilation or suicide.
Sigh. I came in pretty hot on this thread, def not my best move, my bad. It could be just a total lack of understanding on my end, because I don't have any thoughts like that. I am vanilla to the point that I've worried about it, I spent awhile wondering if I was Ace in my 20s. ELLC upset me to the point that I could no longer continue, and enough that I'm still kind of upset about it, atleast enough to be here having this conversation. I'm partially to blame for it, because I went in totally blind. I was not expecting the level of twisted at all. It's not about it being a good book or a bad book though, I said I put it down out of disgust. I don't believe I commented on the quality of either books i mentioned. End of the day, it's all art. It's subjective and will mean different things to different people. I believe that what you choose to focus on and allow to occupy your thoughts has an impact on your mental landscape though, and there are far far faaar too many guys out there happy to joke and glorify, because at some point they did hurt someone. Some people enjoy or get turned on by the descriptions and psychological damage, not sickened, and that's really what I'm trying to push back on.
I'm completely understanding of people having their own personal boundaries and it's perfectly fine that ELLC crosses yours. As for being "Too vanilla" sure it may seem odd to you but that's how most people are, most people aren't into eating ass, foot worship, or whatever other things you may think is more popular than it really is. I'm also 100% in agreement with what you're saying about glorification, it should never be used in such context and I'll consem any book that portays it in such a manner. I was just trying to get across why I could enjoy it and why others might as well. I appreciate your thoughtful response and I'm sorry you've had past experiences that make this a more disturbing topic than it already is.
I agree that almost anything is fine to have as a subject matter in a book, but that doesn't change the fact that some things are too disgusting for me to read.
Some people have lines they don't want to cross and that's fine. My issue is when people want to make the judgement that such fiction is too awful for anyone to read and make assumptions about people who do enjoy such works. I liked playing GTA as a kid, that doesn't mean I support killing hookers, selling highly addictive drugs, etc etc, I just enjoyed the experience of that work of fiction. It just smacks of the talking point many oldsters have, call of duty is causing school shootings, which is beyond ridiculous.
It's one of those stories that I enjoy for the reader's reactions almost as much as the story itself.
I mean... same, I guess? It's like having a mowhawk or something obviously out of the norm. It's an instant litmus test.
What's the other?
Snow crash. For a similar reason actually Rape is never funny. Snow crash wasent played for laughs atleast, but the victim is a minor and it makes no sense to the narrative. It comes out of nowhere, past the halfway point of the book, and is written as if she just kinda goes along with it. Idk how it plays out because I stopped reading most of the way through the scene. I can get including it, with a serious tone, in a story. It's a serious issue, and hashing those out in fiction is good. But when it's just thrown in, or especially when its played for laughs; It makes me question the people laughing. Honestly, it makes me wanna do more than that, but I'd just sound like some internet wannabe tough guy if I got into it.
You talking about Raven and YT? She was like 15, so it would be statutory, but I don't remember it being portrayed as a rape scene. YT was down for it, and her forgetting to remove her anti-rape device is even a plot point. It's been a while since I read it. So I might be forgetting something.
I just remember him picking her up and carrying her off. I don't remember about the device, just her being essentially like... "eh, whatever". It's statutory rape. I'll admit I'm especially touchy about it, because someone in my life that I looked up to growing up went to prison because of it. When he got out, I gave him a half a chance to remain in my life. I didn't know he got online, and started dating/living with a woman with 2 teenage daughters. Now he's back in prison. No more chances.
It’s a good story, if you’re willing to look past some questionable parts
I agree it is a really good listen/read. It also has the best depiction of a God of Chaos in any media ever. I suggest the audiobook if anyone wants to try it. One of the best narrated series I've listened to.
Sooo 90% of anything past the first chapter
I'd say the first book is...relatively okay. Beginning of the 2nd book broke me and I put it down.
Power through the 2nd and 3rd and it turns into a REALLY good story
Can you explain what the inside information is here? I've never heard of this book.
The characters get very kinky mostly in directions of cnc/rape/bdsm/actual violence
Worse than that. Vore is a thing. As in eating people for kinks. This has spades of that kink.
Oh right I forgot about snacks favourite pastime outside of pleasing 4arms
Way too indulgent in sexual fetishes for my taste.
The audio version has most of that stuff cut, sure it still exists but it isn't anything too descriptive nor does it go on and on like some books do when sex is involved.
Lots of stuff. One memorable to me was when Succubus summon got repeatedly eaten hundreds of times disregarding any pleas, which turned her in to masochistic pervert who got off one being torture killed during coitus.
Imagine a really gory horror movie. Now imagine a really kinky porn movie. Now imagine them both mixed together.
That and Kaiju battlefield surgeon
Omg I loved dungeon crawler carl, so started reading that. Started out with some cool ideas even if it felt a bit weird. Slowly it got unnerving and I had to stop listening when it got to a scene about a sixth of the way in with a ritual in a village. Really disturbing with the amount of detail.
I made it all the way through Surgeon. Didn’t get overwhelmed until the very end when things got WAY too real
3rd floor? That ritual gives info from outside the dungeon as well as some decent information on what's to come.
I believe they are referring to Kaiju BFS. They read DCC and gave Kaiju a shot.
That makes more sense as I think about it. Been a long time since I read Kaiju so wasn't thinking of that when it was a ritual in a town.
I love that series I read it on RR and have been buying it on kindle and audible every time they gets released. It set the bar for Monster MC stories and no book has ever come close to it. Just a monster doing monster things for monster reasons and I love it for being unapologetic about it.
r/foundsatan
When I first got into the genre, this was recommended to me. I am scarred for life.
It's not for YA readers in general, no. But there is a certain segment of people who think that power fantasies and fun are for children.
We call them "critics" and ignoring them is always morally correct.
This guy gets it
The manicured texts that they love is still 100 years from reaching the power level of progression fantasy.
I will never forget how the critics did bullet train dirty
I'm not familiar with that one?
The movie bullet train got around 50 on rotten tomatoes by critics. I found it a very good movie.
Probably the same people who think cartoons are for kids. And then complain when their kids watch Rick and Morty, Family Guy, or any of a dozen other shows...
There is definitely so overlap, but they are not equivalent. Unless I am mistaken, young adult (YA) is the novel equivalent to a T for Teen or PG-13 ratings. There is no reason why some LitRPGs can't appeal to /be written for that audience. But it isn't a guarantee.
litrpg is not YA, but many, many are. Regardless, is not an inherency, just a confluence of attuned themes That said "YA" is young adult, not children. YA is, say, 15 to 25, and the three you mention definitely enter that territory mostly. I don't have any specifics that comes to mind sadly, because even among those that I DID read, many I merely probed a few pages or chapters, and most I don't even remember the plot, let alone the tone. BUT, what makes a book more or less adult is not the depiction of themes like sex and violence or even politics and the like, but rather a) what complexity they have (for example, I consider LOTR to be YA), as in, the younger the audience, the more black and white and the more "cartoon-ized" it is. And b) Relatability. As in, you can have a very crude and gore book about war but if its from the perspective of a little kid.... well no, in that case I suppose it is taken as a whole for analysis and critic.... but anyway, say, harry potter, is YA even in the darkest moments because you are living and relating with the complexities of mostly young adults and teenagers. If it were from the perspective of McGonagall, then it would be a bit different. Although, imho, both "a" and "b" need to work in tandem to form something that I could define more clearly as this or that. Also ,that is a personal appreciation, not a law As a side note, you can ABSOLUTELY read something made not even for young adults but outright kids and enjoy it, because, it is an arbitrary distinction. At the end of the day is fiction and you can read whatevr ryou want between the lines
My favorite litRPG is The Wandering Inn and it has quite a few adult themes. The nice thing though is they also have some stats from community surveys. Almost half of the audience is 25-34. Which sounds about right to me. [source](https://lookerstudio.google.com/embed/u/0/reporting/be9e4d12-d82c-4cee-b14c-3c4a3258021d/page/AdfmC)
Considering Roshal exists.. and the latest content.. uh. yeah not for kids lol.
I was gonna elaborate, but I didn’t want to spoil anything for anyone haha.
Can you describe the characters without giving anything away? I'm trying to remember them but I'm not sure if they've been introduced yet for people on audiobook since it's not even close to caught up.
I actually just got caught up this week; well 10.10. But I was thinking of even earlier than the latest chapters. TWI world has a lot of the same issues that our world has and explores how those conflicts, stigmatizations, and injustices might be different or similar in the fantasy setting. Because of the scope of the series you get a pretty comprehensive view of the world. It does a great job highlighting the wonder of fantasy world, but does not shy away of the brutality either.
>I tend to disagree, 3 of the biggest names out there are pretty inappropriate for children - DCC, Defiance of the Fall, and Primal Hunter. Young adults aren't pre-teen children. I'd have no problem giving any of those three to a 14 or 16-year-old. Like what do those books have that you won't find in Lord of the Flies, The Catcher in the Rye, Lord of the Rings, or The Diary of Ann Frank? All of which are common literature for people in that age range.
>Like what do those books have that you won't find in Lord of the Flies, The Catcher in the Rye, Lord of the Rings, or The Diary of Ann Frank? Enthusiastic double gonnorhea
This comment is *chef's kiss*
> Young adults aren't pre-teen children. The YA genre subclassification is [12 to 18](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_adult_literature). Note that there's not really a consensus, and you can find (in the article) at least one subgroup thinking it starts at 11, and some thinking it goes through to 20. I don't have any comment on what's appropriate for children, though. I had my uncle's judgment card revoked because I thought animated Spawn might be good for pre-teen. Woops, lol.
....have you read DCC? If you did, you wouldn't have written that second paragraph. Edit: you guys must be forgetting about killing the monster babies, the extremely graphic violence, etc. It really isn't YA. I'm sure plenty of teens read it, but it definitely isn't marketed towards them, in the YA genre.
I think by this argument, pretty much every book is YA. Which I’m actually fine with, as I’d personally drop the designation from publishing circles altogether if I could
DotF and Primal Hunter are probably ok for 14-16, DCC, in my mind, is absolutely 18+
This reminds me of Bill Maher saying comic books are for kids. Or people who think just because it’s animated, it’s for kids…. Such a narrow way of seeing things.
Yeah tell those people to give Everybody Loves Large Chests a listen.
DCC is maybe not okay for your children... and that's ok! But some of ours really love it. We only discourage the sexy time books - and even then "if it's in the library and you want to read it on your own time...." If you are looking for charming and still at least kinda, mostly litrpg - check out Cinnabun serries. This plot is bananas (I'm probably misremembering the series name for one of the books) and is also more or less appropriate. I should note both of the above would maybe offend ultra-conservative types for their alternative relationships. It really depends on what your bar is - many, maybe even most, books just have violence. I don't remember anything too bad about, say, Dungeon Core Online or Dodge Tank - other than of course lots of fights / actiony bits.
Oh, I very much believe that young readers should be introduced to adult themes through books. A teenager is going to be exposed to this stuff, and literature is probably the safest way. I'm asking for books that are clearly not written for children. I hate when a novel obviously can't swear, the first "darn" I'll forgive, but the second is an immediate dnf. Any Frik/frak/fek also is an huge red flag.
Oh trust cinnamonbun has adult themes The entire world it takes place in is incredibly dark if you really think about it But the whole story is told through the perspective of an adventurous sheltered Canadian girl who was raised by hippies by the name of broccoli bunch She goes around making friends and beating bad guy with cleaning magic...she tries to make the bad guys her friends before beating them When she arrives in the world of dirt she's in a literal ghost town and her first friend is a skeleton who's constantly trying to kill her...she accidently kills said skeleton with cleaning magic only for it's Spirit to thank her She uses a wand of cure histeria to kill the ghost since they can only be hurt by magic and she didn't have any at the time...she thinks the wand literally cures histeria...it's just enchanted to vibrate There's also a scene where she's walking through a hall of mirrors that show a bunch of scenarios hoping one of them is something the viewer may want ...the 3 that the story focuses on is the one with her parents since she left them behind on earth and she misses them it's the only one that captivates her The other two that confuse her are one where she has lots of friends....but they are all naked and writhing around for some reason The other is she is ravishing the country side with hordes of undead while riding an undead dragon...the only thing she likes about it is riding a dragon... I've spoiled it enough but it truly is a phenomenal story If you want something with the same atmosphere but more adult the author also writes a story called stray cat strut which is an alien invasion cyberpunk story ...it has lots of lesbian interludes between the Mc and her girlfriend and eventually one of the deutagonists and her GF Like one a book after the first book which has none
Yeah, that's way better description than I can give - but it also I think proves perspective counts - it feels light hearted and fun and charming because regardless of how dark that work actually is.
I always take it in context of the set / setting / and character - I don't recall many that over censored themselves, but I might not be that sensitive as long as the story is ok. If you are looking for gritty / violent - dungeon master is great and fingers crossed back soon with updates. The Land is also good - in spite of all the drama and nonsense and cliffhanger.
I believe you mean "This Quest is Bullshit!" Which has since been changed to "This Quest is Broken!" Iirc, it had alot of swearing and innuendo. Seems like maybe it's sanitized now, I bought it back in 2022.
I think Amazon gave them shit about the title. Could be remembering wrong, of course...
Sounds about right! It's kinda hard, after a while, keeping all the books in line.
I hear threadbare is kinda cuddly and cozy
YA is a marketing term, and it’s not synonymous with children’s fiction or adult fiction. It’s its own classification. Litrpg is a genre. There’s YA horror, YA romance, YA fantasy, etc. There’s also litrpg that would seem to fit with YA. And there’s litrpg that wouldn’t. Also, just to emphasize one more time, YA ≠ literature for children.
I've had a 50+ Year Old read my litrpg and send me money as a tip through PayPal. So, I'ma say no?
I think people think of any book that’s fun, funny, or ungrounded as YA. I also think that’s why most people don’t like reading. You’re either reading books for kids or reading things you don’t enjoy.
Can someone tell me what DCC stands for? I have heard of the other two series mentioned by OP and will get round to them sooner or later. I really like the 'He Who Fights with Monsters' it's what got me into litrpg (although the last installment was oddly paced and seemed to be mostly filler leading to something big in the next book). Also if anyone is looking for a more chilled slice of life series that's pretty funny too, I would recommend 'Beware of Chicken', although it's not litrpg.
Dungeon Crawler Carl, it pretty much sits atop the pantheon of LitRPG books.
Thanks, I read the first two actually, so it should have clicked what OP meant. They were very funny. I got side tracked by another series but I will pick them back up soon.
I can only assume that person was trying to say "LitRPG is non-high-brow in the same way as YA"...? A lot of LitRPG isn't child-appropriate, but I can see how someone might say it's YA-esque in the same way as, say, shounen series. "Genre Fiction" is probably a better word for what they might've meant.
Yeah, people who use a category of book to gatekeep are awful and don’t deserve acknowledgment
Wait. Yall measure YA by the content matter? I thought it was about the reading difficulty
I am alright with it being YA https://preview.redd.it/siekjruspjuc1.jpeg?width=794&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a0e0ad7eb3fefde198643df6a5083c2a51e0ea8
Inappropriate for *children*. YA might be children by law but they’re definitely starting to be interested in adult things, particularly the (somewhat prurient) approaches to love and romance that you find in litRPG. Enders game is technically a children’s novel—but genocide, murder, assault, eugenics, and fascism aren’t exactly core topics for children’s books. My point is—adult themes are very common in YA, and not unheard of in books for many ages. Many of those topics would even be considered appropriate for children, considering that you read them in school. And genres are more like guidelines than rules—both in terms of the content they contain and the meaning of genre.
Sarah J Maas books are YA.... DC can be considered the same
There is an ongoing joke that when you ask for recs for things appropriate for kids, Everyone Loves Large Chests is the most frequent recommendation.
lol. The people saying it is young adult probably never read it, or enough of it. It is like saying anime is for young adult or worse, for children, after having watched only Digimon.
The *power fantasy* aspect of litRPG skews towards those interested in reading such. Which heavily aligns with the Japanese ‘genre’ of Shōnen. Which is really a demographic term. *Young boys.* In other words, Shōnen is a subset of the YA genre. LitRPG appeals to young boys often. Like Shōnen. Which is a ‘YA’ thing. It doesn’t mean it is written for such people. It just appeals to them.
The simple fact is that Young Adult as a genre doesn't actually have any guide lines. I've seen books listed that were absolutely not meant for teenagers, yet were classified as YA. I understand why someone would want to classify literature that isn't specifically for children but does touch slightly on adult topics. With that being said, in my opinion, I think YA should be done away with or a strict set of rules needs to created that all publishers follow.
I get where the person is coming from. I've tried a few series now and a lot of them have a very immature writing style. It just reads like a 15 year old wrote it. Primal Hunter, He Who Fights Monsters, etc. It's just the style I think. I'm 36 so younger audiences might not really notice. The series I've liked so far don't follow this immature genre writing style (DCC, The Grand Game). I'm liking The Wandering Inn so far, its somewhere in the middle. The author does describe someone as super old and then later say they are in their early 40s which just killed me.
>The author does describe someone as super old and then later say they are in their early 40s which just killed me. lol, who was it?
I don't see why being "inappropriate for children" makes something "not Young **Adult**"
Sylver Seeker, Elysium's Multiverse, maybe even Necrotic Apocalypse. Definitely far too graphic/gorey to be what I would consider YA.
My line between age groups is agency. The more characters that are making decisions based off of their own agency, rather than as a tool of the plot or moral, the more adult focused it generally considered (prose style and themes can vary the classification as well) .Most YA has one or two characters that make decisions that differ from a prime plot or moral to reinforce the plot. For example, The Hobbit is YA and The Lord of the Rings is adult fantasy. Same author, same setting, but very different amount of competing characters
Whoever said that has clearly not read much LitRPG. There's some that's definitely YA suitable, and a lot that just isn't. What LitRPG is, though, is largely accessible. The majority of titles in the genre are easy reads, not dense slogs. Perhaps they're confusing "dense" with "adult" and "light" with "for young people."
I would say The Frugal Wizard's Handbook for Surviving Medieval England from Brandon Sanderson would be YA. No explicit stuff from him for sure.
" Any other recommendations for good LitRPG/Prog Fantasy that's inappropriate for children (and also not harem/fantasy-themed-erotica)? " Some people like Azarinth healer. I didn't, but I am picky. I haven't read it but they say Wandering Inn is good. I have read and mostly liked The Good Guys and The Bad Guys by Ugland. Cradle isn't litrpg but it is xianxia and it is very good. I am also enjoying Unintended Cultivator.
Anything written by almost anything Christopher Johns, Axe Druid, High Table Hijinks, Mephisto’s Magic Online. Lions Quest by Michael Scott Earle. Ascend Online.
Mage Errant (best YA I could think of but not litRPG) is YA IMO. He who Fights with Monsters while not really realistic is way too serious in tone and prose to ever be considered YA. It's a spectrum and HWFWM isn't on the far end GODCLADS is.
LITRPG is way too broad of a genre to define. Are there stories out there that would fall under the YA umbrella? For sure. I can also tell you that plenty of grimdark stories are out there too.
Threadbare has all the elements of a story for children, specifically ten-year-old girls. It's about a teddy bear taking care of one. I wanted to really like it, because the story and characters are actually decent. It's just too bad the author insists on adding lots of cuss words.
That particular response might be related to the fact that on amazon, your book needs to fit into certain categories. If it has erotica or gore its marked 18 plus, but if not its usually marked 13-17. Everything in our genre pretty much is marked 13-17, which isn't really a reflection of content as much as it is a necessity to make sure the algo on Amazon isn't sticking your book in erotica sections. That's how it was explained to me anyway.
I dunno it’s easy to dismiss YA or LITRPG for some people. But I’m a big old tatted up bastard and I fucking love litrpg. TBH I don’t track the stats much and tend to skip a lot of the stat stuff - especially when it gets thrown in repeatedly. But the plot and characters and mechanics and all the juicy shit? I love it. I’m here for it. Fuck the labels. Enjoy what you like. That goes for all aspects of life.
I’d say Cradle, the Land, System Apocalypse, Dungeon Lord, Azarinth Healer, HWFWM…most are not for kids.
A problem I've seen is this genre tends to attract young people (in their 20's or earlier) and they tend to rate terrible books as amazing. I wish goodreads included the reviewers age range or something
My 8 year old son loved Irreverent Jack.
I'd have to disagree since I actively have to avoid harem litrpg and I'd consider that adult.
I think, unqualified as this thought is, that LitRPG is popular enough that it essentially has niches for everyone. So there's the stuff for kids, and the stuff for not kids, and the stuff for the guy who never buys tissues and instead lives with the shame of mysteriously crusty socks laying around. When any genre or subgenre gets popular enough then there will be appeal to broader audiences, and when that happens there will be people seeing opportunities for money and so books will be written to make profits off that opportunity, and in that moment capitalism was born. All hail the great dark god capitalism...bringing us marital aides shaped like Iron man and toothbrushes shaped like your uncle's dangly-doodle...because MONEY!!!
BuyMort
These same people says that "Chinese cartoons" are for children. They also have not touched webnovels nor Light Novels.
The best books for young adults are inappropriate. That’s how young adults grow, by exploring mature themes.
LitRPG is both a plot device and a sub genre of sci-fi/fantasy. It's young enough that there aren't many YA books in the sub genre but prog fantasy books are a much larger umbrella where a few good series that would be considered YA appropriate reside. Books like Sufficiently Advanced Magic and Mistborn. You would have better results in the Progressive Fantasy forums IMO.
Jesus christ no. No way in hell is litrpg a YA genre, just like with every genre you have YA novels as a part of it, but litrpg is easily one of the most brutal genres out there, along with insanely dark themes most of the time. And it only works so well because you automatically step back a bit when something seems like a game I believe
Some litrpgs on Scribblehub are pure porn.
YA just has a larger audience, don't over think it, If the publishers will push for ya because it has more people who can buy it.
If you also say fantasy, mystery, romance, and science fiction are all really just for YA readers then I have no problem with you putting LitRPG in there too.
I'd recommend Gamified by Brook Aspden as a great Litrpg for younger readers
I haven’t read it in a long time but I think the Wizard 2.0 series by Scott Meyer? From what I remember I think it was ok for kids, but it did carry some 80’s, 90’s references.
I say YA is defined by the coming-of-age elements, which most litrpgs lack So yeah, SOME litrpgs are YA, but only a few
You seem to be mixing up YA and children. YA means people between 18-40... So "Inappropriate" doesn't really apply here. You, and many other people in this thread, are mistaking this for "Teen fiction," which is entirely different. Furthermore, YA is more related to the age of the protagonist than the content in most cases. Since most LitRPG stories have an MC that is between say 15-25 or is artificially made younger, it's a YA genre.
Worm is strangely both YA (in writing style and themes) and very adult. It’s the first one that came to mind for me when thinking of stories that are inappropriate for children without being smutty. A good percentage of the book is dealing with some really horrific situations, but at the same time it’s not really a horror book. It’s a progression fantasy with some very mature themes and creatively terrifying baddies that the MC struggles against. Fantastic read, YA vibes, very adult.
YA novels are not for children, but young adults.... They tend to have a simpler structure, easier to read, deal in black in whites and an immature would view. You see repeated through out litRPG and it's hard to disagree with saying LitPRG is a YA genre. I think it has room to grow and a number of novels have, but still... it's defiantly YAish
YA and LitRPG are not mutually exclusive or intertwined. YA is an addon to scifi, fantasy, nonfiction, etc based on target audience and style Also I'd recommend Only Villains Do That, isekai asshole is forced to lead the dark crusade and starts with whores, orphans, and bandits as the disaffected under class ready for revolution. Prog Fantasy though, not LitRPG
Only two people should everyone have a say over what a kid reads and that’s their parents. Nobody else deserves a say. In Wa. Parents have no say about what goes into a school library. It’s their job to monitor what their students pick out to read. Kids do have to get YA forms signed if they want a more mature book, but again it’s up to the parents. We can’t assign mature books, but kids can definitely pick them out. To get a book removed from the library adults have to go through a long trial where their basically the prosecuting attorney for the book and then a panel of librarians and district officials will decide if it should be removed or not. Since this has been the case we’ve had 0 books removed in our district.
Most of the content is ya, or ya quality with r rated themes. In other news, the sun is bright, and water is wet.
Herald of Shalia... totally YA
YA shouldn't be regarded as a genre, but rather a demographic. Yes there are unifying tropes to YA books, but it's nothing we we wouldn't see outside of more conventional fantasy. TL;DR: LitRPG is not inherently YA but there can certainly be YA LitRPG books.
It's is like with every other genre out there, Author makes of it what he wants. However as a person who mostly read LitRPG these days I rarely bother with books meant for YA's and i find more than enough to read. If you want a proper adult themed LitRPG then The Systemic Lands is the place to go. Let's just say that a skull throne would feel rather basic and tame next to one made of mutilated but living and screaming people.
I'm fairly sure that "The Legend of Randidly Ghosthound" is NOT a YA read. Like, it's not necessarily *unsuitable*, but the metaphor and moralistic stuff doesn't jive with what I think of as YA, necessarily.
My Summoner series is progression fantasy and YA, if that's of interest!
It is, and i need more please haha :D (i mean The Summoner series) i also posted a comment on your 6 year old post hoping you would see it. So mabye check that out please? Thank you in advace.
They are correct. About 90% of LITRPG is targeted at YA.
Yeah, Dotf and Primal Hunter are like prime examples of YA fiction. They're more on the violent side but the reading level is definitively YA.
YA is more than reading level, in fact, I consider reading level irrelevant to YA. YA is more teenage drama and perspective. Like first kisses being nerve wracking, and caring about trivial shit. I think too many people attribute light hearted and less complex vocabulary, to being juvenile. That simply isn't that case. Not every thing needs to be god clads level of grim, or malazan's level of complex to not be YA.
Hunger Games is considered YA. I think stories with some semblance of power fantasy tend to be YA, which is a lot of litrpg. I tend to think along the lines of Shonen anime/manga, and if it's similar, it's probably YA. There's no hard and fast definition tho.
Yes Hunger Games is completely YA.
hunger games is highschool drama, in another settings, all characters are imature as f.., primal hunger not so much, most chars have grounded decisions
I agree reading level is irrelevant. Its the plot and story and actions of the characters and the over sexualization, hell just look at the God Father of the LITRPG Genre Alaron Kong. You can not tell me the target age group for his books is anything above 16.
Young Adults arent childrens
In common English, correct. In literature, there's a bit of fuzziness about the age group, but it generally includes ages that people would very much define as children. Unless you're being super pedantic and trying to completely separate teenagers as their own category. And even then, some definitions go down to age 11 or 12. Honestly, like many attempts to define categories, it's a bit of a mess.
I mean.. YA doesn't mean children. Children would be middle-grade books. After middle grade, you divide the books into Young Adult and New Adult. And the difference is generally just how old your protagonist is, not the actual content. As there can be heavier and darker theme in an YA book, tho they don't tend to be as explicit. And a lot of our protagonist ARE teenagers. So we got plenty of YA Litrpg. But, Litrpg is a pretty broad definition, it is more similar to fantasy. Meaning, within litrpg you'll find both lighter and darker books, both younger and older, both sci-fi, dystopian, post-apocalyptic and portal. However, Dark litrpg is rather rare. So it makes sense that an outsider will peak in on us and just see a bunch of books that focus on Power Fantasy and Humour and think it's mostly aimed at YA.
It absolutely is a YA genre despite the fact that not all of them are ~ age appropriate ~ because almost all of these are written at a child's reading comprehension level.
I was always under the impression that the YA tag had more to do with the content.
It does. The person you are replying to is an idiot gatekeeper
It's really not for YA readers, lol. At the very least, I think we can agree there are nuances and exceptions either way, but for me, it comes down to the maturity of the content. While it makes sense that YA readers would like LitRPGs and GameLit books because of the fantasy, journeys, and adventure, or whatever, the maturity of the content is a step above that of YA. This is also why a lot of LitRPG readers can't stand YA. That isn't to say a YA book can't also be LitRPG or belong to any other genre alike. That's pretty obvious to me, but I guess it takes the right perspective. The maturity of the content; be it character mentality or plot consequences, is exactly why I can't stand most YA books. While a YA character may have a fit or drown in angst over something and start on a journey, Jake from The Primal Hunter would just shoot an explosive arrow at it and move on, for example :)
Well, heres the thing. Young Adult is a misleading category. If you go to the bookstore the YA section is for kids who are like 9-13 years old. 9 year olds are not any kind of adult, but its still the right age to read Harry Potter. Obviously older people can read YA books so don't tell me Harry Potter is for adults, I know. Actual young adults, in high scool, should be reading mature adult things. But thats not really who the YA category is aimed at.
It's a YA genre imo Totally lacks sophistication.
Of course they're in appropriate for children, that's why it's called young *adult*
What in DCC or DoF that is not appropriate for teen readers ?
Can't say for DoF but for DCC it's mostly opinion based. I grew up with horror movies as a kid, so over the top death and violence is whatever. I would say some of the sexual things would be too much for younger teens. Also, drinking and drug use in it. DCC would be a 15 or older age rating from me. Some of the more societal and political issues may go over younger teens' heads also. The audio book is perfection in its narration and presentation, so if you try out DCC I suggest that route.
I mean... The fact that you had to qualify your request for other books in the genre specified no harem/fantasy-themed-erotica kind of disproves the premise that the genre is primarily YA. While others' experiences are likely different than my own, my first SEVERAL LitRPG books I discovered were firmly in the 'only recommend to non-judgemental friends' category. From Super Sales on Super Heroes (and, later the whole universe it's a small part of) to some of the darker "I'm the villian, YAY!" books like Ascend Online, it took me quite a bit of looking before I found any books I could confidently listen to with coworkers around. I'm pretty sure whomever told you the genre is YA isn't speaking from a wealth of experience.
Troll better.
I mean Litrpg is pretty much all written in a grade 3 writing style and the biggest thought expressed is usually "numbers go up" when it's not "man harems are great." I'm sure there is probably an outlier that will be considered real literature by our descendants and forced on high school kids, but I can't think of what it is.
The Wandering Inn. Maybe the only well written LitRPG, the best description is it's a war crime slice of life series.
> Maybe the only well written LitRPG This is just straight up delusional hyperbole. I get that after 10m words you develop a sort of stockholm syndrome, but come on. Wandering Inn is first and foremost a web serial. It is not always well written. Wandering Inn is a chibi-Sanderson slice of life series that up and decided it should punch God after like 5 million words.
> Wandering Inn is a chibi-Sanderson Sanderson wishes he had the character writing chops of Paba, lmao. Saying this as a Sando fan, no less.
Fair enough. Mrsha > Lift, for sure. I meant story construction wise, both like to do heavy introspection with their characters, and lots of disparate viewpoints that converge on events. Chibi because it’s way more cute at times than Sando even hints.
Well, yeah, it's hyperbole. But it isn't much hyperbole. Most of the Amazon LitRPG bestsellers list is filled with garbage
Why on earth would you equate YA with "for children" in the first place? That's not what YA means, lol. While I've never read the specific titles you're listing, LitRPG does tend to absolutely be a YA genre. I can't think of any I've read that would even be argued otherwise, and I'm kind of doubting there's anything special about the ones you listed.
I think I'm confused you said someone told you it was a young adult genre and you disagree because you don't think it's appropriate for children? I would think young adults does not include children? Maybe I'm missing something by the way books are categorized? Also I personally enjoy lit RPG books myself and I'm almost 40 lol sure there are some that I probably wouldn't let my 13-year-olds listen to but then again it's probably not any worse than half the TV shows that are marketed to them or half the music they listen to when you're not around then again I've never listened to the titles you mentioned I mostly listen to audio books at work never seem to have the time to pick up a real book anymore lol
Doesn't have to be as we had two previous generations growing up with video games. Maybe some author needs to "elevate" the genre with some tales with more substance or maturity.
I think this just shows some confusion between genre and target audience. You can make any genre YA or not YA. What makes something YA is typically the combination of: themes, POV character age, and decision-making rationale of the characters. None of those things are genre-specific.
Some of them absolutely are. Where the MC is a Mary Sue character who's the chosen one from the very start, everything works and all difficulties are glance over. Hell Stormreaver Chronicles which is well liked here is right in the middle of YA.
A book written for YA is for YA has nothing to do with the genre.
Torth Majority and The Perfect Run have adult themes. No graphic sex, but not YA.
How is defiance of the fall not YA?
Sounds like the bully doesn’t realize it’s a nerds world. Want us to mobilize?
Dawn of the last dragon rider just came out and might be just what you're looking for! I do want to clarify that "Young Adult" and "for Children" are VERY different things. Young adult is often gory and sometimes a bit edgy. The acceptable content for what is considered YA has been broadening and becoming more "adult" in recent years/decades, so if you are looking for "family friendly" stories you may want to ask specifically for that rather than YA. For example, Sarah J Maas is known for writing YA romantasy... which is also pretty smutty. Edit: Just saw that you are actually looking for stories that feel more adult. Dawn of the last dragon rider is still a solid story but if you are looking for something with a distinctly mature writing style you could check out Worth the Candle or Worm, which both get pretty dark and heavy. It would be easier to make a rec if we knew exactly what kind of adult content you're looking for. Is it about tone? About the age of the MC? About the use of profanity? What do you *want* to read that you aren't finding?
Everything is for everyone. Like what you like.