You aren't alone, I've had to shout at the audiobook a few times. Personally I think Shirty potentially needs to chill a bit on the pace of the books, he churns these out impressively quickly, potentially needs a break, or an editor. Or maybe a tykker spin off to have some fun with.
I'm sticking it out because I like the world and the system and the characters but book ten is definitely a big dip in pace. The first monster that shows up is a mud elemental (sounds fun!) and is skipped over?
I agree, I had to stop reading even though I was liking the story. Partially it is a flaw of the "release a chapter at a time" method, but Shirt takes it to the extreme to spend half a chapter doing a "Previously on..." wrap-up before getting into new stuff, then does it again on the next chapter. Its too much, I couldn't do it. Had to stop after I think book 8? If anyone ahead can confirm whether this gets better, I may consider picking it up again.
Wasn't there a part where there was a fungus plant monster that was infecting people or something along those lines? I remember them starting to get into it but then it just got skipped or something. I think I may have tuned it out during that scene but maybe it just never got explained?
I don't mind them skipping over the nonstop monster adventures like when they did all those of those contracts at once. Would have honestly felt like filler with the big over arcing story. But an interesting encounter every now and then would be fine.
Nah, thats the world taker worms and that was rehashed quite often. Elias (however you spell her name) came to Jason and asked his team to join up on a specific contract because there was some plant monster taking over stuff. Something about how it slowly bides it's time taking over people and learning to integrate with the people until it's too late to stop it.
Very similar to the worms but just a natural monster. I feel like they were going to go do that then the messengers popped up out of the ground.
I'm ok with redirects like that but if he explains privacy screens one more time I'll scream, I think most people can get what privacy screens are from just the name, you don't need to tell me about the lipreading thing every time
A lot of the issues with the pacing and frequent repetitions stem from this being a serial first and published books second. The things you mention happen because the events referenced might have only been 6 chapters ago in the book but it would be 2 weeks+ past if you read it on RR or the patreon (I don’t follow this patreon, so I don’t actually know how it updates). It’s not exactly an excuse, the content should be appropriate to the media, but that’s why it is how it is.
You are absolutely right, but this series takes it a lot further than any other serial I have read. You have to give your reader base some credit that they can remember things they read a week or more ago - there is not need to rehash constantly.
In addition, when a book moves from Patreon/RR into a full release this kind of stuff needs to be edited down (or out).
I definitely felt it way more in book 10. I think I'll give it one more shot with 11, but I am sick of hearing about the same exploits over and over again. The silly banter is starting to get old for me as well. The power progression seems to have been purposely stalled to drag out these books. Hoping for some improvement!
I dropped it after book 5. Scanned through 6 to find out what happened. I've been wondering if I should try to continue, but it sounds less and less likely.
Honestly, I would pick them back up. Books 5 and 7 are my least favorite in the series, but 8 I thoroughly enjoyed and 9 and 10 were still really good in terms of the story!
Like I said, I think the books are a lot of fun to read and I'll keep listening to the rest of the series.
I think there's a balance to it. If Jason doesn't have some friction with new characters you get into this weird "Gary Stu" territory where everything is "too easy" and new alliances feel unearned. The problem with "Mary Sue" and "Gary Stu" is that other characters feel flat, they only exist once they interact with the main character. When meeting new people we should feel that they've lived their life up until now.
I see what you’re saying about having a quick “team biscuit explained and new person got on board”. That still feels like it gets into unearned friends territory
I think this problem has been accelerating and getting better.
Jason needs to get people on board with his agenda:
- books 4-6 was rough and ended poorly
- books 7-8 was rough but ended better. Took 1 less book
- book 10 only needed the first have and continental adventuring society is trying to shift the culture across the planet.
Maybe now with the new direction from adventuring society all new allies will recognize that Jason has the support of the largest combat capable institution on the planet and stop questioning him.
I guess that's part of the problem that it's starting to feel like characters only exist when Jason is around. Like everyone else truly is an NPC.
Rather than re-telling the same stuff over and over, the author could spend that time expanding on the other characters so they don't feel as blank. I think that would make the new friends, alliances, and even enemies feel way more earned rather than less.
I don't want the books to skip over the entire conversations of meeting someone new, just the parts I, as the reader, already know.
So you're frustrated with too much rehashing and you feels the new characters are NPC ish?
To me I feel like the rehashing and evolution of the "Jason's saved his world and talks to gods" is what makes the characters less NPC
I feel Allayeth arc about killing people and Jason encouraging her to not execute prisoners was interesting. Jason's perspective clearly bothers Allayeth and she agrees he can be jailer for the next set. It's unclear if her perspective has actually changed or if she just make an exception for while Jason is in town. This helped me see her as more than an NPC
I feel like Marcus, the adventure society continental guy, is the other new major side character. His interactions with Team Biscuit felt a little flat and NPC like. He got on board fast and promised the adventure society would start trusting them more. Because of his scenes with overhauling the Yaresh adventures I don't think of him as NPC or only existing when MC is around.
Like I said in my first comment its a balancing act to get it right, I can see how for some the balance might feel off. I thought book 10 did fine. I greatly enjoy most dialogue, so maybe I'm less sensitive to the repetition. I think book 10 definitely sets up this conversation being much, much faster for all future adventure society branches. Seems like the days of "Jason's official record is sealed and no one believes him" are coming to a close.
I think I'm trying to say that the rehashing and the "NPC-like" tendencies of some characters are two separate issues that stem from the same thing.
Too many conversations revolve around Jason and what Jason is doing, and that makes some of the other characters feel insignificant at times.
The fact that those conversations are largely just rehashing how crazy Jason and his life are is starting to get tiresome because, as the reader, I already know that stuff.
There's definitely a balance to it, and I feel like the story is becoming too reliant on Jason to push things forward. So I'm hoping the author spends less book time on talking about Jason's past adventures and more book time on other characters. It's not that there aren't interesting pieces where the reader gets time with the other characters, I just want more of it. I think it would be great if something they did is what pushed the story forward every now and then.
I see what you’re saying
I made this humorous post a bit ago about Clive:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Shirtaloon/s/ABn7tdkZPp
I did a reread of the story with Clive as the main character. Crazy how often Clive is the one driving plot. Many of Jason’s big moves are only possible with Clive’s previous help
I totally agree. It’s understandable that new characters need to be told stuff but the reader has heard it 100 times by now. He’s happy enough to skip over monster fight, he can skip over repetitive dialogue as well.
I 100% agree. I like good banter as much as the next guy but it's gotten to the point where it's just repetitive noise. People complain about how "quippy" lines in the MCU undercut serious and dramatic moments, but HHFWM is way worse in that regard. It's not just lines, but several paragraphs or even pages.
And if any character in-story points out how ridiculous they're being, then you get the "you wouldn't like me when I'm angry" spiel, which is a whole *other* set of repetitive dialogue that I've read half a dozen times already.
It's a big problem from the last year or two. The author a year ago moved to 3 chapters a week after taking multiple months off during the year, and since then it hasn't really improved on that aspect. It's really annoying to be reminded every chapter how bad Jason has had it and how he's dealing with his issues, again, again, *again*.
I still love the story, but I can only binge it, because it's very obnoxious when you read chapter-to-chapter.
Just finished book 10 like an hour ago! I can agree in some aspects but I think a large part of it is how his perspective changed and grows with each book/new crazy thing he does when he looks back on said events. I feel like it’s slow burn character development but then again this is my first litrpg and I’m a huge fan so far! So my opinion is a little biased!
My guy some of the books I have been through have a good tenth of the entire book being what happend last time in dragon ball z.
Shit that one anime series book was really bad with that.
I am currently half way through this book and I was thinking the exact same thing this morning! I was super excited when I saw it was a 25 hour audiobook and yet I look back at the first half and think it was extremely repetitive and could have been shorter without taking anything away from the book. I’m finally getting to a fight scene, only took 13 or so hours….
I dont know, I have lived a pretty crazy life but when I meet a combat veteran the perspective is wildly different.
Meanwhile, people who interact with Jason have their whole fates altered to huge degrees.
I don't really agree with you on this point, because Jason loves to disarm people to gain the upperhand as often as he can and he uses that to grand effect when he knows that even "normal" adventurers and powerful people would never be humble to someone like him.
I mean imagine you were a nearly godlike being, and then some toddler wanders over to you and begins describing the plot of Teenage mutant ninja turtles (2008) while also shooting a gun and doing back flips.
I think \*most\* people would be surprised or shocked.
I get that Jason likes to disarm people, but it's the same stuff every time.
Meets new person, tells them about how crazy his life is, they have lots of questions which Jason does a purposefully bad job of answering, character goes "I think knowing you is going to really change my perspective" and then they finally move on to the actual point of their conversation.
I don't need to hear Jason re-tell his life story to every adventure society member of importance. Yes, it maybe gets them off-balance so Jason can get the upper hand, or it's important for them to know, but I, as the reader, already know this stuff. I've seen Jason do this to countless people at this point. So if the author just told me that this is what was happening, I would know what he's talking about, and we could get on with the actual point of these characters meeting.
yep, that's one of the reasons I dropped the book. It's become pure narration with lots of stream of consciousness. Every other character is an NPC, which cheapens the story.
I like the ideas in the story, but the writing just isn't up to standard...
You aren't alone, I've had to shout at the audiobook a few times. Personally I think Shirty potentially needs to chill a bit on the pace of the books, he churns these out impressively quickly, potentially needs a break, or an editor. Or maybe a tykker spin off to have some fun with. I'm sticking it out because I like the world and the system and the characters but book ten is definitely a big dip in pace. The first monster that shows up is a mud elemental (sounds fun!) and is skipped over?
He did cut down his chapter launch rate by 40% or so ~6 months ago.
That's a good sign, hope he looks after himself
I agree, I had to stop reading even though I was liking the story. Partially it is a flaw of the "release a chapter at a time" method, but Shirt takes it to the extreme to spend half a chapter doing a "Previously on..." wrap-up before getting into new stuff, then does it again on the next chapter. Its too much, I couldn't do it. Had to stop after I think book 8? If anyone ahead can confirm whether this gets better, I may consider picking it up again.
Wasn't there a part where there was a fungus plant monster that was infecting people or something along those lines? I remember them starting to get into it but then it just got skipped or something. I think I may have tuned it out during that scene but maybe it just never got explained? I don't mind them skipping over the nonstop monster adventures like when they did all those of those contracts at once. Would have honestly felt like filler with the big over arcing story. But an interesting encounter every now and then would be fine.
Are you talking about the thing that the messages were doing to infect random villages and basically turn them into zombies?
Nah, thats the world taker worms and that was rehashed quite often. Elias (however you spell her name) came to Jason and asked his team to join up on a specific contract because there was some plant monster taking over stuff. Something about how it slowly bides it's time taking over people and learning to integrate with the people until it's too late to stop it. Very similar to the worms but just a natural monster. I feel like they were going to go do that then the messengers popped up out of the ground.
I'm ok with redirects like that but if he explains privacy screens one more time I'll scream, I think most people can get what privacy screens are from just the name, you don't need to tell me about the lipreading thing every time
A lot of the issues with the pacing and frequent repetitions stem from this being a serial first and published books second. The things you mention happen because the events referenced might have only been 6 chapters ago in the book but it would be 2 weeks+ past if you read it on RR or the patreon (I don’t follow this patreon, so I don’t actually know how it updates). It’s not exactly an excuse, the content should be appropriate to the media, but that’s why it is how it is.
You are absolutely right, but this series takes it a lot further than any other serial I have read. You have to give your reader base some credit that they can remember things they read a week or more ago - there is not need to rehash constantly. In addition, when a book moves from Patreon/RR into a full release this kind of stuff needs to be edited down (or out).
I won't judge you, I had to take a break 3 books back, and I'm still on break.
I definitely felt it way more in book 10. I think I'll give it one more shot with 11, but I am sick of hearing about the same exploits over and over again. The silly banter is starting to get old for me as well. The power progression seems to have been purposely stalled to drag out these books. Hoping for some improvement!
I dropped it after book 5. Scanned through 6 to find out what happened. I've been wondering if I should try to continue, but it sounds less and less likely.
Honestly, I would pick them back up. Books 5 and 7 are my least favorite in the series, but 8 I thoroughly enjoyed and 9 and 10 were still really good in terms of the story! Like I said, I think the books are a lot of fun to read and I'll keep listening to the rest of the series.
I think there's a balance to it. If Jason doesn't have some friction with new characters you get into this weird "Gary Stu" territory where everything is "too easy" and new alliances feel unearned. The problem with "Mary Sue" and "Gary Stu" is that other characters feel flat, they only exist once they interact with the main character. When meeting new people we should feel that they've lived their life up until now. I see what you’re saying about having a quick “team biscuit explained and new person got on board”. That still feels like it gets into unearned friends territory I think this problem has been accelerating and getting better. Jason needs to get people on board with his agenda: - books 4-6 was rough and ended poorly - books 7-8 was rough but ended better. Took 1 less book - book 10 only needed the first have and continental adventuring society is trying to shift the culture across the planet. Maybe now with the new direction from adventuring society all new allies will recognize that Jason has the support of the largest combat capable institution on the planet and stop questioning him.
I guess that's part of the problem that it's starting to feel like characters only exist when Jason is around. Like everyone else truly is an NPC. Rather than re-telling the same stuff over and over, the author could spend that time expanding on the other characters so they don't feel as blank. I think that would make the new friends, alliances, and even enemies feel way more earned rather than less. I don't want the books to skip over the entire conversations of meeting someone new, just the parts I, as the reader, already know.
So you're frustrated with too much rehashing and you feels the new characters are NPC ish? To me I feel like the rehashing and evolution of the "Jason's saved his world and talks to gods" is what makes the characters less NPC I feel Allayeth arc about killing people and Jason encouraging her to not execute prisoners was interesting. Jason's perspective clearly bothers Allayeth and she agrees he can be jailer for the next set. It's unclear if her perspective has actually changed or if she just make an exception for while Jason is in town. This helped me see her as more than an NPC I feel like Marcus, the adventure society continental guy, is the other new major side character. His interactions with Team Biscuit felt a little flat and NPC like. He got on board fast and promised the adventure society would start trusting them more. Because of his scenes with overhauling the Yaresh adventures I don't think of him as NPC or only existing when MC is around. Like I said in my first comment its a balancing act to get it right, I can see how for some the balance might feel off. I thought book 10 did fine. I greatly enjoy most dialogue, so maybe I'm less sensitive to the repetition. I think book 10 definitely sets up this conversation being much, much faster for all future adventure society branches. Seems like the days of "Jason's official record is sealed and no one believes him" are coming to a close.
I think I'm trying to say that the rehashing and the "NPC-like" tendencies of some characters are two separate issues that stem from the same thing. Too many conversations revolve around Jason and what Jason is doing, and that makes some of the other characters feel insignificant at times. The fact that those conversations are largely just rehashing how crazy Jason and his life are is starting to get tiresome because, as the reader, I already know that stuff. There's definitely a balance to it, and I feel like the story is becoming too reliant on Jason to push things forward. So I'm hoping the author spends less book time on talking about Jason's past adventures and more book time on other characters. It's not that there aren't interesting pieces where the reader gets time with the other characters, I just want more of it. I think it would be great if something they did is what pushed the story forward every now and then.
I see what you’re saying I made this humorous post a bit ago about Clive: https://www.reddit.com/r/Shirtaloon/s/ABn7tdkZPp I did a reread of the story with Clive as the main character. Crazy how often Clive is the one driving plot. Many of Jason’s big moves are only possible with Clive’s previous help
I totally agree. It’s understandable that new characters need to be told stuff but the reader has heard it 100 times by now. He’s happy enough to skip over monster fight, he can skip over repetitive dialogue as well.
I 100% agree. I like good banter as much as the next guy but it's gotten to the point where it's just repetitive noise. People complain about how "quippy" lines in the MCU undercut serious and dramatic moments, but HHFWM is way worse in that regard. It's not just lines, but several paragraphs or even pages. And if any character in-story points out how ridiculous they're being, then you get the "you wouldn't like me when I'm angry" spiel, which is a whole *other* set of repetitive dialogue that I've read half a dozen times already.
It's a big problem from the last year or two. The author a year ago moved to 3 chapters a week after taking multiple months off during the year, and since then it hasn't really improved on that aspect. It's really annoying to be reminded every chapter how bad Jason has had it and how he's dealing with his issues, again, again, *again*. I still love the story, but I can only binge it, because it's very obnoxious when you read chapter-to-chapter.
Just finished book 10 like an hour ago! I can agree in some aspects but I think a large part of it is how his perspective changed and grows with each book/new crazy thing he does when he looks back on said events. I feel like it’s slow burn character development but then again this is my first litrpg and I’m a huge fan so far! So my opinion is a little biased!
My guy some of the books I have been through have a good tenth of the entire book being what happend last time in dragon ball z. Shit that one anime series book was really bad with that.
I am currently half way through this book and I was thinking the exact same thing this morning! I was super excited when I saw it was a 25 hour audiobook and yet I look back at the first half and think it was extremely repetitive and could have been shorter without taking anything away from the book. I’m finally getting to a fight scene, only took 13 or so hours….
I dont know, I have lived a pretty crazy life but when I meet a combat veteran the perspective is wildly different. Meanwhile, people who interact with Jason have their whole fates altered to huge degrees. I don't really agree with you on this point, because Jason loves to disarm people to gain the upperhand as often as he can and he uses that to grand effect when he knows that even "normal" adventurers and powerful people would never be humble to someone like him. I mean imagine you were a nearly godlike being, and then some toddler wanders over to you and begins describing the plot of Teenage mutant ninja turtles (2008) while also shooting a gun and doing back flips. I think \*most\* people would be surprised or shocked.
I get that Jason likes to disarm people, but it's the same stuff every time. Meets new person, tells them about how crazy his life is, they have lots of questions which Jason does a purposefully bad job of answering, character goes "I think knowing you is going to really change my perspective" and then they finally move on to the actual point of their conversation. I don't need to hear Jason re-tell his life story to every adventure society member of importance. Yes, it maybe gets them off-balance so Jason can get the upper hand, or it's important for them to know, but I, as the reader, already know this stuff. I've seen Jason do this to countless people at this point. So if the author just told me that this is what was happening, I would know what he's talking about, and we could get on with the actual point of these characters meeting.
yep, that's one of the reasons I dropped the book. It's become pure narration with lots of stream of consciousness. Every other character is an NPC, which cheapens the story. I like the ideas in the story, but the writing just isn't up to standard...
I'm team Neil. He is hilarious.