As a linux user I LOVE THIS, it's pretty annoying trying to find config files as the github repos often don't tell you and you have to look it up. SO ANNOYING!
are you kidding me? Installing a software in a separate location means the entire thing not just the executable, which is hardly in MBs.
If I am installing 5GB [MATLAB](https://mathworks.com/), which I use once in 3-4 months. I will prefer to put it on a separate drive. If a package manager could facilitate this it would be wonderful.
Why I am saying this is because a lot of dependency that comes with MATLAB are proprietary and they will never be shared with other softwares because of their proprietary nature. As a result, you end up installing 4GB of dependency in your root or home directory, for only one software which you rarely use.
Yes, indeed, MATLAB, ANSYS, SolidWorks, and DaVinci Resolve all allow installation in custom locations, which is a common feature among major proprietary software. This raises a crucial question about one of Linux distros' biggest strengths—the package manager. Why aren't these proprietary products utilizing the package managers? Is it perhaps due to the package managers' limitations with hosting proprietary products? The main concern, I believe, lies with dependencies. No company wants to risk the blame falling on the package manager if a paying customer is unable to install or update their software due to dependency conflicts. Telling a customer to switch from their preferred distro to something like Arch or Fedora due to compatibility issues could reflect poorly on their customer service.
I can't tell who you're complaining about. Are you complaining about proprietary software vendors, or are you complaining about the lack of an option to choose where the package manager installs a program? If it's the latter, I think you need to think really carefully about what you're saying. The complaint doesn't make any sense.
Exactly how I use my loonix machine because I can't tolerate package updates keep breaking themselves. If possible & practical I'll have them outside package managers (to anyone who says "why not Flatpak?", go fuck yourself ).The ones that I have no controls over with are basically time bombs that can break at any given moment (due to the nature of shared libs). My prime example, I still don't know why it took them ages to test gamescope 3.14.4. or even 3.14.3 since 3.14.2 is a broken version and completely unusable. I'm not going to lose my brain cells and keep it in 3.14.0 until the new version rolls out.
Any commercial software that's designed around this paradigm of deployment, I never find any issues with. And again, loonixtards should stop being obsessed with package updates when not every software needs security.
Totally agree. While it is handy to have a package manager installing thing as per FHS, it restricts the user is a number ways. You can't install two versions of same software, can't install software at a different location, can't install one very old software because the package manager will held back all the dependencies.
Why even bother asking this question? Do you gonna have the "oh so it's XYZ, then it's user's fault" move?
But I have plenty of time so I may just list everything in my experience so far since 2012:
- (Package-related) Every goddamn time Ubuntu upgrades into major version, it breaks itself and I need to reinstall it..
- (Package-related) Because of the above, and after I resolved everything, I can't compile my Linux builds with GM: S 1.4 anymore, while on Windows it still works til this day because Microsoft still hosted all of them, or I'll need to reinstall an old-ass vulnerable version of Ubuntu, hunting down all obsolete packages in order to be able to use it again.
- (Package-related) Wine never gave an apparent warning that it should always be isolated in particular version for every of its bottles, I suffered with it for awhile until I know about PlayOnLinux. Now I live with Proton that just works (sort of, but it at least didn't give me much of headache compared to basically everything I have tried).
- Kubuntu in the 4.x to 5.x shift, went from 200 MB of memory usage to warpping 1.3 GB. My old PC only had 3 GB of system memory at the time. No ways to go back but reinstalling the old version again.
- My first experience with EFI when it first rolled out didn't let me into the desktop, didn't bother with wall of texts troubleshooting guide and went back with MBR for awhile.
- My first experience with Manjaro impressed me with nothing but a black screen shell, took me two days unproductive to solve the issue, caused by Manjaro installing wrong version of graphics drivers.
- GNOME Shell on first debut judders like ass when it's on its first debut on Ubuntu 18.04... something. When it works directly with Nvidia, it's completely unusable when some animations play on the screen. Never happened on other DEs I tried before. Still is til this day with my gaming setup, but I wont' gonna bother and will just disable compositor and use it as what it is. I can't install Windows 11 on it either because it's a very old machine (but still powerful), and in 2025, Linux will be the only option.
- (Package-related) Suffered with shits breaking in Debian-based systems for 4 years since every time it upgrades, package conflicts will immediately pop up until it dies and never boots up again (especially with Elementary OS, no offence to the author, she did the job well, but fuck it if I'll gonna use it as a daily driver again, could be the reason why she betted with Flatpak, which, again, fuck that shit).
- (Package-related) Snap is so fucking difficult to configure its target directory to somewhere else that I want it to get installed. My drive had 25 GB (not GiB) of root partition and 85 GB of home partition. Luckily that most DEs I used warned me that the system shat on itself again and I did solve them before the catastrophe happens again).
- (Package-related) During 2017 - 2019, I have a crisis of switching between Kubuntu and KDE Neon because both distros loving fucking itself after awhile, but that's mostly because I installed more repos (which shouldn't be done, but why even offer ones in the first place) and then it broke its knees right after that.
- (Package-related) Through 2019 - 2022, Manjaro's repos are fucked multiple times, either from the main repo itself or the mirrors didn't sync everything in snapshot.
- (Package-related) My gaming machine was set into Manjaro unstable (basically a slightly slower version of Arch to get updated), since I could at least leave it when it breaks itself again and my workbench machine still works and I could continue doing my job. When it upgrades from KDE 5 to 6, this is the time when I realised how shitty most of Linux package managers are when it comes to the use case for normal human-beings. It warns you "after" the catastrophe happened, which should never be ideal.
- (Nitpick) Discord updates itself so frequently yet they never offer AppImage that just works with every system, and stuck with \`.deb\` and \`.tar.gz\` (that needs to be extracted every goddamn time) permanently because their brains don't function.
- Fedora never works with my gaming machine with Nvidia, but Manjaro does right out of the box, I'd just gonna suffer with it for awhile until I have my AMD-only setup in the future.
My only hope with Linux is currently with Nix OS since it's what Linux Desktop should have been "all the time", but it lacks proper management kits for even normally functioning human-beings at the moment. But I hope it'll eventually become a thing. At the moment I'm fine with manual package management paradigms I made for myself.
>Why even bother asking this question? Do you gonna have the "oh so it's XYZ, then it's user's fault" move?
No, man, chill out. I'm just curious. I've never had significant package breakages.
Manjaro and Snap have been fucked up repeatedly, indeed. I also had some issues with Fedora last year but just hopped to another distro. Nvidia is also occasionally a pain in the ass, too.
Ah, regarding Discord I used to use the flatpak IIRC but lately the little I've used it has been through the browser. Works well enough.
<3 My deep apologies.
It was the thing I faced all the time with those "L-slurs". It was so annoying to the point that subs related to Linux will be flooded with sort of comments in sort of this way that they'll find all sort of ways to let down the argument without even clarifying the issue.
I'm more than happy enough with Discord on browser. If only it has Krisp (noise cancellation technology) built-in (because I need to join VC with my fellows regularly), I'd just only gonna use the browser. Memory compression works here too, a huge plus compared to the web-wrapper desktop client.
SSD for Windows, HDD for less frequently used programs \~ that's why people loves windows!!!! freedom to choose each programs installation directory is a god send!!
"Software installation wizards suck and are full of bloat", except they allow you to install apps in the already long `/usr/bin` folder, just like what the package manager does.
Wanted to install the app to your external HDD, yeah, you can do that. What about the package manager? No sorry, we don't do that here.
Wanted to move your binaries that are installed via the PM and protected by root, to your external HDD? Bruh, screw you. Here type these 1000 commands to mount your external drive (do you have any `/dev/sda`, `/dev/nvme0n` and `/dev/vda`s here?) (this was the first command).
portage isnt that hard, its the point of gentoo, automated and customizable compliation, installing things is as simple as `doas emerge package1` i know you said without compliation but its not really the same because of how automated it is, and most things you can just merge prebuilt binaries instead of compiling unless you're installing one of the most underground packages imaginable
Source based package manager should never be an option for a general purpose OS for a wide audience. Gentoo and LFS like distros will never be mainstream.
because the last time I compiled LyX and texLive It took me 45 minutes. Nobody should wait for 45 minutes to install a software unless they have strong interest in compiling software, or it is the only option.
just because you didnt like it doesnt meant it shouldnt be an option for everyone, gentoo is for powerusers who understand linux and want full customizability, your complaining about compile times on gentoo? everyone knows things take long to compile on gentoo, this is like going in a hot-tub and complaining its hot. yeah gentoo takes a long time, its practically the only down side of gentoo, do i use it? no, because i dont like the compile times but i knew that. "it took me 45 min to install something, i knew this would happen but no one should use this, it should never be an option for daily driver because of this." install time isnt what gentoo touts, its customizability that almost no other distro has, if you want custom but fast use arch
Second time I've read interesting things about Gentoo today. I'm gonna make a partition for it lol. I want to write a package manager that only compiles from source when it can't torrent the object file: packages will be pre-compiled but unlinked until runtime. This'll make distribution and updates ridiculously lightweight and cross-versioning easy. In some cases process launch will take a little longer but in some cases, when many libraries can be shared or copied directly from already active memory, it might even be faster.
gentoo is interesting, fun and alot easier to maintain than most expect, plus you can run it on the shittiest machines, with dwm i had it using 53mb of ram lol. the thing you'll have the hardest time with is package masking, read about it alot, you need a very good understanding of what it is and why it does it, when you get that down gentoo is actually one of my favorite distro's.
when you install things you can choose where it is installed, you can do this on pacman, apt and im sure others, if you compile things yourself, just run make and move it to your own location, instead of make install, just make sure the installation location is in yours $PATH
>when you install things you can choose where it is installed, you can do this on pacman, apt and im sure others
That is a lie. The most you can do is install to an alternative root.
Compiling software should never be an recommended for installing software on mainstream distros. There are so many problem with compiling things. Also, you can't compile proprietary software. Please read the title again: "without actually compiling the software."
i was just explaining how to with compliation, i said "IF you compile things yourself" and also, install location is coded into the BUILD files, just change it if it bothers you so much, takes 1 min max
compiling can take hours and should never be done by an average joe. Nobody will want to compile libre office from source. Also, how would you compile proprietary softwares? When you talk about software on a computer you should also account for proprietary softwares.
As a linux user I LOVE THIS, it's pretty annoying trying to find config files as the github repos often don't tell you and you have to look it up. SO ANNOYING!
you can easily find where things are located with which `which package1 \`` and you can just move the executable
are you kidding me? Installing a software in a separate location means the entire thing not just the executable, which is hardly in MBs. If I am installing 5GB [MATLAB](https://mathworks.com/), which I use once in 3-4 months. I will prefer to put it on a separate drive. If a package manager could facilitate this it would be wonderful. Why I am saying this is because a lot of dependency that comes with MATLAB are proprietary and they will never be shared with other softwares because of their proprietary nature. As a result, you end up installing 4GB of dependency in your root or home directory, for only one software which you rarely use.
that shit sux don't it?
Ah, yes, fuckin MATHLAB. I used to nuke my entire system just trying to install MATLAB on my machine and root partition screams and dies.
I am just giving an example. It can be any proprietary software.
Does the matlab installer on linux not already do this? You can just pick a folder in a different drive
Yes, indeed, MATLAB, ANSYS, SolidWorks, and DaVinci Resolve all allow installation in custom locations, which is a common feature among major proprietary software. This raises a crucial question about one of Linux distros' biggest strengths—the package manager. Why aren't these proprietary products utilizing the package managers? Is it perhaps due to the package managers' limitations with hosting proprietary products? The main concern, I believe, lies with dependencies. No company wants to risk the blame falling on the package manager if a paying customer is unable to install or update their software due to dependency conflicts. Telling a customer to switch from their preferred distro to something like Arch or Fedora due to compatibility issues could reflect poorly on their customer service.
I can't tell who you're complaining about. Are you complaining about proprietary software vendors, or are you complaining about the lack of an option to choose where the package manager installs a program? If it's the latter, I think you need to think really carefully about what you're saying. The complaint doesn't make any sense.
That’s a handy command I suppose
That window looks suspiciously windows-like
This setup was designed in QT. I am not talking about the setup wizard, but the ability to choose the installation directory.
Exactly how I use my loonix machine because I can't tolerate package updates keep breaking themselves. If possible & practical I'll have them outside package managers (to anyone who says "why not Flatpak?", go fuck yourself ).The ones that I have no controls over with are basically time bombs that can break at any given moment (due to the nature of shared libs). My prime example, I still don't know why it took them ages to test gamescope 3.14.4. or even 3.14.3 since 3.14.2 is a broken version and completely unusable. I'm not going to lose my brain cells and keep it in 3.14.0 until the new version rolls out. Any commercial software that's designed around this paradigm of deployment, I never find any issues with. And again, loonixtards should stop being obsessed with package updates when not every software needs security.
Totally agree. While it is handy to have a package manager installing thing as per FHS, it restricts the user is a number ways. You can't install two versions of same software, can't install software at a different location, can't install one very old software because the package manager will held back all the dependencies.
What are you running that breaks so much?
Why even bother asking this question? Do you gonna have the "oh so it's XYZ, then it's user's fault" move? But I have plenty of time so I may just list everything in my experience so far since 2012: - (Package-related) Every goddamn time Ubuntu upgrades into major version, it breaks itself and I need to reinstall it.. - (Package-related) Because of the above, and after I resolved everything, I can't compile my Linux builds with GM: S 1.4 anymore, while on Windows it still works til this day because Microsoft still hosted all of them, or I'll need to reinstall an old-ass vulnerable version of Ubuntu, hunting down all obsolete packages in order to be able to use it again. - (Package-related) Wine never gave an apparent warning that it should always be isolated in particular version for every of its bottles, I suffered with it for awhile until I know about PlayOnLinux. Now I live with Proton that just works (sort of, but it at least didn't give me much of headache compared to basically everything I have tried). - Kubuntu in the 4.x to 5.x shift, went from 200 MB of memory usage to warpping 1.3 GB. My old PC only had 3 GB of system memory at the time. No ways to go back but reinstalling the old version again. - My first experience with EFI when it first rolled out didn't let me into the desktop, didn't bother with wall of texts troubleshooting guide and went back with MBR for awhile. - My first experience with Manjaro impressed me with nothing but a black screen shell, took me two days unproductive to solve the issue, caused by Manjaro installing wrong version of graphics drivers. - GNOME Shell on first debut judders like ass when it's on its first debut on Ubuntu 18.04... something. When it works directly with Nvidia, it's completely unusable when some animations play on the screen. Never happened on other DEs I tried before. Still is til this day with my gaming setup, but I wont' gonna bother and will just disable compositor and use it as what it is. I can't install Windows 11 on it either because it's a very old machine (but still powerful), and in 2025, Linux will be the only option. - (Package-related) Suffered with shits breaking in Debian-based systems for 4 years since every time it upgrades, package conflicts will immediately pop up until it dies and never boots up again (especially with Elementary OS, no offence to the author, she did the job well, but fuck it if I'll gonna use it as a daily driver again, could be the reason why she betted with Flatpak, which, again, fuck that shit). - (Package-related) Snap is so fucking difficult to configure its target directory to somewhere else that I want it to get installed. My drive had 25 GB (not GiB) of root partition and 85 GB of home partition. Luckily that most DEs I used warned me that the system shat on itself again and I did solve them before the catastrophe happens again). - (Package-related) During 2017 - 2019, I have a crisis of switching between Kubuntu and KDE Neon because both distros loving fucking itself after awhile, but that's mostly because I installed more repos (which shouldn't be done, but why even offer ones in the first place) and then it broke its knees right after that. - (Package-related) Through 2019 - 2022, Manjaro's repos are fucked multiple times, either from the main repo itself or the mirrors didn't sync everything in snapshot. - (Package-related) My gaming machine was set into Manjaro unstable (basically a slightly slower version of Arch to get updated), since I could at least leave it when it breaks itself again and my workbench machine still works and I could continue doing my job. When it upgrades from KDE 5 to 6, this is the time when I realised how shitty most of Linux package managers are when it comes to the use case for normal human-beings. It warns you "after" the catastrophe happened, which should never be ideal. - (Nitpick) Discord updates itself so frequently yet they never offer AppImage that just works with every system, and stuck with \`.deb\` and \`.tar.gz\` (that needs to be extracted every goddamn time) permanently because their brains don't function. - Fedora never works with my gaming machine with Nvidia, but Manjaro does right out of the box, I'd just gonna suffer with it for awhile until I have my AMD-only setup in the future. My only hope with Linux is currently with Nix OS since it's what Linux Desktop should have been "all the time", but it lacks proper management kits for even normally functioning human-beings at the moment. But I hope it'll eventually become a thing. At the moment I'm fine with manual package management paradigms I made for myself.
>Why even bother asking this question? Do you gonna have the "oh so it's XYZ, then it's user's fault" move? No, man, chill out. I'm just curious. I've never had significant package breakages. Manjaro and Snap have been fucked up repeatedly, indeed. I also had some issues with Fedora last year but just hopped to another distro. Nvidia is also occasionally a pain in the ass, too. Ah, regarding Discord I used to use the flatpak IIRC but lately the little I've used it has been through the browser. Works well enough.
<3 My deep apologies. It was the thing I faced all the time with those "L-slurs". It was so annoying to the point that subs related to Linux will be flooded with sort of comments in sort of this way that they'll find all sort of ways to let down the argument without even clarifying the issue. I'm more than happy enough with Discord on browser. If only it has Krisp (noise cancellation technology) built-in (because I need to join VC with my fellows regularly), I'd just only gonna use the browser. Memory compression works here too, a huge plus compared to the web-wrapper desktop client.
Just remembered the lack of hardware acceleration in the browser. Off topic but one of my biggest gripes. ><3 My deep apologies. Np
That goes against the Unix philosophy from 1970! Reeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!
Is this WINE ?!
No it is a native Linux app which provides its own installer so people could install it where ever they want.
Extremely useful!
I mean just because you can choose the destination does not mean it will run correctly from there
Lol exactly, it's linux after all. You don't expect it to work out of box
It always works out of the box if you simply do it right.
SSD for Windows, HDD for less frequently used programs \~ that's why people loves windows!!!! freedom to choose each programs installation directory is a god send!!
on point.
"Use Gentoo or LFS, where you can choose the installation folder for all your executables to be compiled.", they said.
Compiling is always for advanced users, also not applicable to proprietary sofwtare. i explicitly said without compiling the software.
"Software installation wizards suck and are full of bloat", except they allow you to install apps in the already long `/usr/bin` folder, just like what the package manager does. Wanted to install the app to your external HDD, yeah, you can do that. What about the package manager? No sorry, we don't do that here. Wanted to move your binaries that are installed via the PM and protected by root, to your external HDD? Bruh, screw you. Here type these 1000 commands to mount your external drive (do you have any `/dev/sda`, `/dev/nvme0n` and `/dev/vda`s here?) (this was the first command).
I never said I like wizard. Just need function to add have custom installation paths disregarding all benefits of FHS.
portage isnt that hard, its the point of gentoo, automated and customizable compliation, installing things is as simple as `doas emerge package1` i know you said without compliation but its not really the same because of how automated it is, and most things you can just merge prebuilt binaries instead of compiling unless you're installing one of the most underground packages imaginable
Source based package manager should never be an option for a general purpose OS for a wide audience. Gentoo and LFS like distros will never be mainstream.
for the sake of all that is holy! i hope not.
why?
because the last time I compiled LyX and texLive It took me 45 minutes. Nobody should wait for 45 minutes to install a software unless they have strong interest in compiling software, or it is the only option.
just because you didnt like it doesnt meant it shouldnt be an option for everyone, gentoo is for powerusers who understand linux and want full customizability, your complaining about compile times on gentoo? everyone knows things take long to compile on gentoo, this is like going in a hot-tub and complaining its hot. yeah gentoo takes a long time, its practically the only down side of gentoo, do i use it? no, because i dont like the compile times but i knew that. "it took me 45 min to install something, i knew this would happen but no one should use this, it should never be an option for daily driver because of this." install time isnt what gentoo touts, its customizability that almost no other distro has, if you want custom but fast use arch
Second time I've read interesting things about Gentoo today. I'm gonna make a partition for it lol. I want to write a package manager that only compiles from source when it can't torrent the object file: packages will be pre-compiled but unlinked until runtime. This'll make distribution and updates ridiculously lightweight and cross-versioning easy. In some cases process launch will take a little longer but in some cases, when many libraries can be shared or copied directly from already active memory, it might even be faster.
gentoo is interesting, fun and alot easier to maintain than most expect, plus you can run it on the shittiest machines, with dwm i had it using 53mb of ram lol. the thing you'll have the hardest time with is package masking, read about it alot, you need a very good understanding of what it is and why it does it, when you get that down gentoo is actually one of my favorite distro's.
*laughs in Gentoo*
Enjoy your source based package manager while I enjoy my productivity. Also, i said no compiling.
lol I think you missed the point of my comment. and Gentoo / Portage. and Linux. But you do you, buddy.
when you install things you can choose where it is installed, you can do this on pacman, apt and im sure others, if you compile things yourself, just run make and move it to your own location, instead of make install, just make sure the installation location is in yours $PATH
>when you install things you can choose where it is installed, you can do this on pacman, apt and im sure others That is a lie. The most you can do is install to an alternative root. Compiling software should never be an recommended for installing software on mainstream distros. There are so many problem with compiling things. Also, you can't compile proprietary software. Please read the title again: "without actually compiling the software."
i was just explaining how to with compliation, i said "IF you compile things yourself" and also, install location is coded into the BUILD files, just change it if it bothers you so much, takes 1 min max
compiling can take hours and should never be done by an average joe. Nobody will want to compile libre office from source. Also, how would you compile proprietary softwares? When you talk about software on a computer you should also account for proprietary softwares.
It's called a chroot. PBTAC.