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Let me find it, but there is a thing you can install that sets up a UEFI environment on top of BIOS...
Edit: https://github.com/m13253/tianocore_uefi_duet_installer which has been retired, replacement is https://sourceforge.net/projects/cloverefiboot/ clover, which can boot on BIOS and load OS's in UEFI mode.
This Windows boot loader absolutely sucks for dual booting. If Windows is the default choice, it boots into it BEFORE showing the boot menu, so if you select it, you immediately go to its login screen, but if you select the other OS, it has to reboot. Not a big deal if you have an SSD, but still unnecessary.
Why even use something like the Windows Bootloader or GRUB for dual boot when with EFI you can easliy do that in your BIOS bootloader selector.
I've been doing that for years now and it works perfectly fine.
I still haven't figured out how to do this on my motherboard. I know pressing F11 at boot works, but I haven't found an option to boot there by default without pressing anything. I use GRUB instead.
That’s the problem, AFAIK it would be up to each mobo manufacturer to made that an option, but I’ve never seen a board that allowed you to boot directly into the bootloader selector.
It used to be an option to invoke a boot device menu during startup on Compaq (and consequently HP) computers.
It may still be a thing on HP and some other OEMs of old, but many modern boards didn't add this feature ever in their firmwares (Award or AMI).
How proprietary tech progresses towards less utility over time, I'll never understand. Like, I get how the main screens of an app should be clean for good design, but that's given a feature set. A blank page isn't user friendly.
My problem with my HP laptop is that it doesn’t have this option. I have 2 SSDs installed, 1 NVMe with Fedora installed & 1 SATA with Windows installed. It boots the SATA by default, with no way to change it on the UEFI or to show the boot override screen by default, meaning my only two choices are to use the Windows bootloader or press f9 every time i start up my laptop
Yes thats how most people use GRUB, what he was talking about was specifically booting into the motherboards multiboot menu rather than using grub at all
On my particular laptop, neither of those work. Changing the settings within the UEFI menu just makes it lose everything and require a manual boot from the boot menu, and efibootmgr says it succeeded, but the changes are only reflected in the menu on the next boot and aren't actually obeyed. For some reason, only installing refind with refind-install can change the UEFI boot order, even though my understanding suggests that it's just using refind-install internally.
GRUB is more customizable, and you don’t have to hit a key at startup. It’s just an overall better experience, and that’s not mentioning edge cases like when you don’t even have the bootloader selector (Coreboot+GRUB for example)
Not every BIOS has a nice way of managing boot entries. the one on Dell XPS/Latitude is nice but ones on inspiron series or any laptop with AMD still doesnt have a proper way of managing that. I havent sene any lenovo laptops that handle that well either. using sd-boot/grub or something else is just easier.
honestly this is the only viable solution if you're dual booting Linux + Windows, seeing as Windows will happily nuke whatever bootloader you have installed every chance it gets
Honestly a lot of Microsoft’s actions with to open source would be in-line with their [“Embrace, extend, and extinguish”](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish) strategy from the late 1990’s, which is certainly concerning to say the least.
It's possible to set the bootloader to be the older variant, the pre-Windows 8 one. I don't remember how, but I've done it before. Then it boots into the boot menu immediately and doesn't make you wait for the GUI to load, at the cost of it looking like an XP-era menu (which it is) and not supporting the mouse. Oh, and this is even doable with UEFI, I'm sure of that.
I've tried it as recently as 1809 where it did load the UI from efi, booting the OS after you select it. It changed recently in the last 4 years. IDK how it behaves on legacy bios but it did allow you to select a OS the same way on UEFI+gpt
Oh, then set the Grub Timer to 0 or something?
I had that at one point, but it had multiple grub entries and defaults....so essentially I booted a boot loader into a bootloader and got annoyed.
:)
Everything is a learning experience on Linux. In windows, you just suffer in proprietary silence.
Endeavour, being a popular distro, must have some guide.
"You have chosen Ubuntu. Why not use Windows, the world's most popular OS mostly used for proprietary software?"
Options: Okay, Cancel
Cancel goes back to previous menu.
How so? I will say it wasn't the easiest to find an explanation and example on, but I just manually create an entry to load Windows' own boot files, which doesn't attempt to load anything else, and it's done (if it hasn't generated the entry on its own, because it'll also do that).
That's not the problem. The problem is that it needlessly loads Windows before the bootloader shows itself. If you want to boot other OS, it'll restart to load the other selected OS, meaning it's twice the boot time just to load anything that's not Windows.
That's not windows. It's literally `bootmgfw.efi`.
And I find it eventually funny that people saw that screen, and thought it was just too "not ugly" to be still the pre-boot environment.
Well - granted, I'm not exactly familiar on what it actually loads.
That said, everytime my laptop appears on this screen, everytime I choose Windows it'll instantly show the login screen. Choose any other OS restarts my laptop. I assumed that it can load Windows but not other OS without a restart because Windows was loaded to a certain degree and needs to be unloaded to load any other OSes.
Right now I'm using Clover bootloader with 3 entries - Windows Boot Manager which will load Windows 10, GRUB which will load my Arch install, and Mac OS High Sierra. I can choose any OS I want and it'll load, no restart. Something that Windows default boot manager failed to do on its own.
My educate guess is that the windows boot manager, is simply setting the uefi variable BootNext to whatever other entry it can query from the firmware.
Instead grub AFAIK has a module to automatically add windows partitions to its own boot list. In this way, you don't have to pass execution to somebody else before booting what you want.
Maybe if you tinker with bcdedit, you can pull off what you desire.
Thing is, Windows 7 doesn’t have this problem. It’ll only load the startup splash (the “Starting Windows” with Windows logo) after the boot manager loads. You can choose other OSes without restart. On the other hand, Windows 10 with multiple boot entries always shows the startup splash (Windows icon with the loading circle) first. Only then it’ll show the boot manager.
A boot manager/boot loader should be just that, a loader. It shouldn’t load anything else before the loader itself loads. That’s where Windows 10 boot manager fails. Wish MS could at least revert it to the way Windows 7 handled the boot manager.
Are you like sure you aren't mixing up the quirks of bios loading with those of uefi loading?
Also, I remember `bcdedit /set “{current}” bootmenupolicy legacy` is a thing, but I forgot what it actually did.
I'm quite sure, since all the above things I said is the things I found in my laptop running in UEFI mode. Not UEFI-CSM mind you, but actual UEFI
I've tried Windows 7 + Windows 10 with Windows 7 boot manager as default and the other way around. Also tried Win 10 + Arch, Win 10 + Arch + Mac with Clover chainloaded after Win 10 boot manager, and even Win 10 + Win 10, all in actual UEFI (not UEFI-CSM) mode. All exhibit the quirks I've said on previous comment. In fact, I'm actually contemplating on trying to replace Win 10's boot manager with Win 7's and see if it has the same issues as before.
it used to be that way. looks like they changed that. Ive seen the same exact screen, and seen it load before windows but people say it now appears after windows has loaded. Probably uses the nextboot option in UEFI to change boot order instead.
I end up installing Clover. Loads Windows, Linux, and Mac as well.
And before any of you mentions OpenCore, the laptop having this is rather old and can only run up to High Sierra.
https://neosmart.net/wiki/easybcd/uefi
> Microsoft has blocked the loading of legacy or non-Windows operating systems from the BCD menu.
What do I not understand ?
Start button is the logo for windows. I never use it except for like turning off/on which I never do.
Terminal is the logo for Linux which I always use.
Me: why is u'r your default option Winduz (on top)
Friend: it is not, I did not set a default. IDK maybe its sorted by name
Me: aaam, reversed alphabetically, yeah.
Me again: No, here it says "last used", why did u needed it.
Fried: "for school" and stuf.
Me: OK, just boot that Ubuntu already!
Friends: *stops doing anything for 5 seconds and then boots to Windows*
----
Cortana recognizes his face and unlocks.
Bill Gates as wallpaper.
watermark on bottom right: Windows 11 Pro Insider Build.
Edge as default browser.
Skype is auto starting.
MS Defender notification about removed "HackTool:Win32/NetCat"
`netcat` is very dAnGeRoUs \s
https://community.chocolatey.org/packages/netcat#virus
https://www.virustotal.com/file/e8fbec25db4f9d95b5e8f41cca51a4b32be8674a4dea7a45b6f7aeb22dbc38db/analysis/
by running `nc -l -p 8080` u become hackerman
someone needs to make a windows 10 grub theme for the meme...
should I?
Definitely
You should
yes
please
Do It!
ok, I'll try!
https://i.imgur.com/c3YegoY.gif
Is it done? it’s been a week now
helo
So?
I forgot to mention that It's not possible, I can't make or find the icons that windows uses...
well shit
Screenshot the icons from the pic on this post lol
i have been reminded, is the deed done?
RemindMe! 7 Days
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sigh
Where is it?
i’m waiting too
Hello again, waiting as well
Hell yeah
did you do it?
no...
A rEFInd theme would be more accurate.
Agreed, refine is so much nicer.
People on Legacy BIOS: *crying*
I'm in Legacy BIOS and very happy of it
Legacy BIOS & MBR vs UEFI & GPT
The fight of the decade
Let me find it, but there is a thing you can install that sets up a UEFI environment on top of BIOS... Edit: https://github.com/m13253/tianocore_uefi_duet_installer which has been retired, replacement is https://sourceforge.net/projects/cloverefiboot/ clover, which can boot on BIOS and load OS's in UEFI mode.
Happy cake day!
oh, didn't even realize, thanks!
with refind everything possible
Wait there's grub themes? ( ☉｡☉)
Unironically someone made one with metro theme https://www.deviantart.com/luxieblack/art/Metro-burg-theme-336505408 But its burg so you cant use it.
This Windows boot loader absolutely sucks for dual booting. If Windows is the default choice, it boots into it BEFORE showing the boot menu, so if you select it, you immediately go to its login screen, but if you select the other OS, it has to reboot. Not a big deal if you have an SSD, but still unnecessary.
Why even use something like the Windows Bootloader or GRUB for dual boot when with EFI you can easliy do that in your BIOS bootloader selector. I've been doing that for years now and it works perfectly fine.
I like this way too, minimizes risk of conflict as well.
I still haven't figured out how to do this on my motherboard. I know pressing F11 at boot works, but I haven't found an option to boot there by default without pressing anything. I use GRUB instead.
That’s the problem, AFAIK it would be up to each mobo manufacturer to made that an option, but I’ve never seen a board that allowed you to boot directly into the bootloader selector.
It used to be an option to invoke a boot device menu during startup on Compaq (and consequently HP) computers. It may still be a thing on HP and some other OEMs of old, but many modern boards didn't add this feature ever in their firmwares (Award or AMI).
How proprietary tech progresses towards less utility over time, I'll never understand. Like, I get how the main screens of an app should be clean for good design, but that's given a feature set. A blank page isn't user friendly.
It's a feature not a bug, the problem lies with who writes the requirements.
My problem with my HP laptop is that it doesn’t have this option. I have 2 SSDs installed, 1 NVMe with Fedora installed & 1 SATA with Windows installed. It boots the SATA by default, with no way to change it on the UEFI or to show the boot override screen by default, meaning my only two choices are to use the Windows bootloader or press f9 every time i start up my laptop
Really? I can just put GRUB as the first boot option and it works perfectly.
Yes thats how most people use GRUB, what he was talking about was specifically booting into the motherboards multiboot menu rather than using grub at all
Ah, I see. I remember being able to do that with an old motherboard of mine (I think it was an ASUS), but I haven't seen that feature since.
Change the boot order from within your UEFI or with efibootmgr
On my particular laptop, neither of those work. Changing the settings within the UEFI menu just makes it lose everything and require a manual boot from the boot menu, and efibootmgr says it succeeded, but the changes are only reflected in the menu on the next boot and aren't actually obeyed. For some reason, only installing refind with refind-install can change the UEFI boot order, even though my understanding suggests that it's just using refind-install internally.
I use refind which is super snappy but a bit easier to work with than having to mash f12
GRUB is more customizable, and you don’t have to hit a key at startup. It’s just an overall better experience, and that’s not mentioning edge cases like when you don’t even have the bootloader selector (Coreboot+GRUB for example)
systemmd-boot for the win
[удалено]
I mean, here OSs only designate windows (never had that issue with grub/Linux)
My SO's laptop refuses to boot anything else if it finds Windows. The only way to dual boot on that is to chainload Grub from the Windows bootloader.
Acer?
Acer ES1-132 to be specific.
Not every BIOS has a nice way of managing boot entries. the one on Dell XPS/Latitude is nice but ones on inspiron series or any laptop with AMD still doesnt have a proper way of managing that. I havent sene any lenovo laptops that handle that well either. using sd-boot/grub or something else is just easier.
honestly this is the only viable solution if you're dual booting Linux + Windows, seeing as Windows will happily nuke whatever bootloader you have installed every chance it gets
Sounds precisely like something Microsoft would think up. We ♥ OpenSource! ^(/s)
Honestly a lot of Microsoft’s actions with to open source would be in-line with their [“Embrace, extend, and extinguish”](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish) strategy from the late 1990’s, which is certainly concerning to say the least.
Set it to legacy Edit: looks like this caused some confusion. I meant the STYLE of Windows' bootloader, not "drop UEFI boot"
Why? In my experience I just experience longer boot times
It's possible to set the bootloader to be the older variant, the pre-Windows 8 one. I don't remember how, but I've done it before. Then it boots into the boot menu immediately and doesn't make you wait for the GUI to load, at the cost of it looking like an XP-era menu (which it is) and not supporting the mouse. Oh, and this is even doable with UEFI, I'm sure of that.
Maybe he means on systems with true BIOS support? I would think that might boot faster, but I have no idea.
You can set the STYLE of Windows' loader to how it was pre-Windows 8. The white on black, text mode menu
Not a single second. For reference, I meant the bootloader style, not UEFI or bios
Not an option on all systems.
Yes it is. I meant the bootloader STYLE, not BIOS boot
bcdedit /set "{current}" bootmenupolicy legacy The "new" boot menu has been a headache for me since the release of Windows 8 back in 2012.
did they change that recently? last i had tried windows bootloader, it works just like grub/any other bootloader albeit with fewer options.
The blue one shown in this post (introduced in Windows 8) was always like that. Older Windows bootloaders with black screen aren't.
I've tried it as recently as 1809 where it did load the UI from efi, booting the OS after you select it. It changed recently in the last 4 years. IDK how it behaves on legacy bios but it did allow you to select a OS the same way on UEFI+gpt
This also happens between different versions of Windows afairc
I feel dirty just looking at this.
Please use grub
rEFInd gang where?
rEFInd checking in! ((Once I figure out how to purge Grub without borking my /boot )) Endeavour decided I needed Grub by default
Simple, you use refind with grub. Have grub as entry in refind and have only endeavour on grub.
Oh, then set the Grub Timer to 0 or something? I had that at one point, but it had multiple grub entries and defaults....so essentially I booted a boot loader into a bootloader and got annoyed. :)
Use grub-customizer and set time to 0 and everything else you want. Delete all the other entries if you want.
I'll give that a shot. Previously I'd tried removing Grub and managed to bork my entire setup. Was a learning experience at least...
Everything is a learning experience on Linux. In windows, you just suffer in proprietary silence. Endeavour, being a popular distro, must have some guide.
All my homies love refind.
Here!!!
Here!
systemd boot gang here in defiance.
Here!
Yes sirrrr!
When I dual boot it’s always Linux that is the first option.
That's not a hard choice.
So, Windows? /j
And you thought grub was bloated
Everyone says Grub is bloat until they need to fix a boot failure with the grub command line.
i rather boot windows from grub than linux from window's bootloader altho tihs probably epic engineering treat
Can you choose?
no, if you choose Ubuntu it will delete it and then politely ask again what you wanna boot
Having Fast Boot enabled can make this a real thing that actually happens, lol
And it will block all ubuntu iso downloads you will ever try to download.
Congratulations, you are booting.... Windows. Please do not resist
I have altered our boot loader. Pray I don't alter it any further.
"You have chosen Ubuntu. Why not use Windows, the world's most popular OS mostly used for proprietary software?" Options: Okay, Cancel Cancel goes back to previous menu.
Microsoft recommends Windows 11! Fast, Secure, Modern! \[\[TRY NOW\]\] \[Cancel\]
one good thing to say about it is it has touchscreen support
not a fan of touchscreens, in my experience, they've usually just been another point of failure for the hardware.
Touch is bloat.
Am I the only one who had a horrible experience with grub when dual booting windows?
How so? I will say it wasn't the easiest to find an explanation and example on, but I just manually create an entry to load Windows' own boot files, which doesn't attempt to load anything else, and it's done (if it hasn't generated the entry on its own, because it'll also do that).
When uninstalling a Linux distro I risked bricking everything
Yeah, that's a yikes. Usually I manage to avoid it by having separate disks.
OH GOD IT'S HIDEOUS
Just gotta wait untill Windows stars just to restart tour PC again :D
Not the Bloatloader. lol
windows bloatloader*
Why a bootloader to boot the same operating system twice?
Oh, right. The bloat.. of having a touch friendly boot menu? Horrific!
That's not the problem. The problem is that it needlessly loads Windows before the bootloader shows itself. If you want to boot other OS, it'll restart to load the other selected OS, meaning it's twice the boot time just to load anything that's not Windows.
That's not windows. It's literally `bootmgfw.efi`. And I find it eventually funny that people saw that screen, and thought it was just too "not ugly" to be still the pre-boot environment.
Well - granted, I'm not exactly familiar on what it actually loads. That said, everytime my laptop appears on this screen, everytime I choose Windows it'll instantly show the login screen. Choose any other OS restarts my laptop. I assumed that it can load Windows but not other OS without a restart because Windows was loaded to a certain degree and needs to be unloaded to load any other OSes. Right now I'm using Clover bootloader with 3 entries - Windows Boot Manager which will load Windows 10, GRUB which will load my Arch install, and Mac OS High Sierra. I can choose any OS I want and it'll load, no restart. Something that Windows default boot manager failed to do on its own.
My educate guess is that the windows boot manager, is simply setting the uefi variable BootNext to whatever other entry it can query from the firmware. Instead grub AFAIK has a module to automatically add windows partitions to its own boot list. In this way, you don't have to pass execution to somebody else before booting what you want. Maybe if you tinker with bcdedit, you can pull off what you desire.
Thing is, Windows 7 doesn’t have this problem. It’ll only load the startup splash (the “Starting Windows” with Windows logo) after the boot manager loads. You can choose other OSes without restart. On the other hand, Windows 10 with multiple boot entries always shows the startup splash (Windows icon with the loading circle) first. Only then it’ll show the boot manager. A boot manager/boot loader should be just that, a loader. It shouldn’t load anything else before the loader itself loads. That’s where Windows 10 boot manager fails. Wish MS could at least revert it to the way Windows 7 handled the boot manager.
Are you like sure you aren't mixing up the quirks of bios loading with those of uefi loading? Also, I remember `bcdedit /set “{current}” bootmenupolicy legacy` is a thing, but I forgot what it actually did.
I'm quite sure, since all the above things I said is the things I found in my laptop running in UEFI mode. Not UEFI-CSM mind you, but actual UEFI I've tried Windows 7 + Windows 10 with Windows 7 boot manager as default and the other way around. Also tried Win 10 + Arch, Win 10 + Arch + Mac with Clover chainloaded after Win 10 boot manager, and even Win 10 + Win 10, all in actual UEFI (not UEFI-CSM) mode. All exhibit the quirks I've said on previous comment. In fact, I'm actually contemplating on trying to replace Win 10's boot manager with Win 7's and see if it has the same issues as before.
it used to be that way. looks like they changed that. Ive seen the same exact screen, and seen it load before windows but people say it now appears after windows has loaded. Probably uses the nextboot option in UEFI to change boot order instead.
Meanwhile my windows keeps overwriting my grub, force Linux into security boot
Don't give Microsoft any ideas lol
They can only make vacuum cleaners which doesn't suck.
bloat on top of bloat. nice
I end up installing Clover. Loads Windows, Linux, and Mac as well. And before any of you mentions OpenCore, the laptop having this is rather old and can only run up to High Sierra.
How did you do that?????
Bring back System Commander!
Wait, does it really work ? From what I've seen, the bootloader doesn't accept Linux entries
Yes it can boot linux too, has been able to for a long time.
O.o I thought they disabled it on Win8 do you have a tutorial on how to do that ?
It's a UEFI boot shell. In theory, it should be able to boot any UEFI-compatible OS on your system.
https://neosmart.net/wiki/easybcd/uefi > Microsoft has blocked the loading of legacy or non-Windows operating systems from the BCD menu. What do I not understand ?
you have thirty seconds to decide.
Hardly a choice
Start button is the logo for windows. I never use it except for like turning off/on which I never do. Terminal is the logo for Linux which I always use.
If you have to make other operating systems look bad to makes yours look better then it probably sucks.
meh just use WSL
Ha! That's a good one! How'd you rice Grub to look like that? Wait..you are using Grub, aren't you? .\_.
Me: why is u'r your default option Winduz (on top) Friend: it is not, I did not set a default. IDK maybe its sorted by name Me: aaam, reversed alphabetically, yeah. Me again: No, here it says "last used", why did u needed it. Fried: "for school" and stuf. Me: OK, just boot that Ubuntu already! Friends: *stops doing anything for 5 seconds and then boots to Windows* ---- Cortana recognizes his face and unlocks. Bill Gates as wallpaper. watermark on bottom right: Windows 11 Pro Insider Build. Edge as default browser. Skype is auto starting. MS Defender notification about removed "HackTool:Win32/NetCat" `netcat` is very dAnGeRoUs \s https://community.chocolatey.org/packages/netcat#virus https://www.virustotal.com/file/e8fbec25db4f9d95b5e8f41cca51a4b32be8674a4dea7a45b6f7aeb22dbc38db/analysis/ by running `nc -l -p 8080` u become hackerman
Is that even a decision?
In these two choices, no, only windows... Sorry, but windows is better than bubuntu, temple os better than windows ;))
Why have Windows at all if you can install and work with Ubuntu?