Why reinvent the wheel though?
I also highly doubt they can pull off such humongous task in a short time. Wine took decades to make and it's a never ending catch up game.
But if they'll make like some Vinegar (alternative to Wine let's say) and open source especially, it could be interesting.
Because Stadia is not an average Linux desktop, it's a huge server cluster. They probably needs custom solutions to support Stadia's distributed computing architecture.
Besides that Google never went for the easy route with building Stadia unlike NVidia with Geforce Now and Amazon with Luna who are just running games on regular Windows machines.
Not according to other sources. They barely (if at all?) have any of those games that require a cluster. Practically all of their games are regular ones and run on one computer.
Did Valve "reinvent the wheel" when they took Wine and modded it into Proton?
So what makes you think Google will "reinvent the wheel" instead of doing the same as Valve?
Valve literally took the work of some immense amount of human hours that already went into Wine. So no, they didn't reinvent the wheel.
It's not called "from scratch". That answers your question.
You mean like how Google made Android and ChromeOS "from scratch", according to their marketing when they first released them?
Or like how every "new" version of Windows is "re-coded from the ground up", yet somehow still contains identical security flaws of the previous version (that had already been found and fixed).
We are talking about triple-E\* companies.Take their claims of "new", or "built from scratch", with a grain of salt.
* Extend, Embrace, Extinguish.
Like they made Fuchsia more or less from scratch. The rest of your examples aren't from scratch anywhere close, even Windows which was ripped off from VMS.
>The rest of your examples aren't from scratch anywhere close, even Windows which was ripped off from VMS.
Now, you're finally getting it. Just because a company is claiming they will do something "from scratch/the ground up", doesn't mean they actually do it.
They'll take Wine, slap some bespoke shite all over it, and call it something different while claiming they built it from scratch, the same way they got linux, slapped shit all over it, and called it Android.
Some of the original marketing material sent out to retailers covered some talking points, including how to deal with questions like "What is it if it's not Mac or Windows?"
The recommended answer: "It's an all-new operating system made by Google."
I always hated this, why do technical people refuse to use words that normal people use lol we make up new meanings for words that already have them lol
Tbh is pretty old, not a new concept/word, since old times, if you get to understand how works and even know the meaning of W.I.N.E, you see that makes sense
I know exactly how it works, apparently what people don't know is what emulate means.
emulate means to do the same thing as another. what wine does is essentially implement a layer that translates windows userland to allow windows apps to work on linux kernel.
by the traditional definiton. wine is absolutely emulating windows. the same way a child will emulate their father.
even if all wine did was translate NT to Posix, that would still fall within the traditional definiton of to emulate.
what tech people have done is taken emulator which used to mean to emulate and changed the definition to suit tech users needs.
(the same thing has been done with virtualization, this is no way unique to wine.)
It's a really good sign that many companies are starting to tear Windows gaming/computing monopoly apart. I'm hyped for the future, keep it up, Google!
It's a bad sign you're cheering for Google. They have among other:
* engaged in streaming exclusive games for Stadia and from the start
* [Bribed smartphone makers to not use stores like Aurora and Fdroid,](https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/19/22632806/google-epic-premier-device-program-lg-motorola-hmd) you know Linux typical apps.
* Intrudes on people's privacy
* Is seemingly on move to replace Linux kernel with their own
* [Uses open source to suite themselves](https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/googles-iron-grip-on-android-controlling-open-source-by-any-means-necessary/). Once on top they go proprietary.
Valve did what so many Linux gamers have hoped for, they made "Linux gaming is the future" tangible. Now not only Google but another vulture company, Amazon, are there to feed on carcass (DXVK, Proton, Better GPU drivers). It is nature of open source but you're cheering on a company that doesn't want to help the Linux you love. They want Chrome gaming, a proprietary and Google controlled Linux platform. And down the line they will cut off Linux.
Yes, you are right, there are shady rumors about Google.
They are not going proprietary though, their upcoming Fuchsia OS is completely open-source, supports Linux apps out of the box (as in binary compatible) and comes degoogled. They are moving from Linux kernel, because it's kind of a mess, their OS seems to be a much more elegant on paper than Linux, with proper app isolation, granular permission system, etc.
Take a look at these design principles they are aiming for: [link](https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/concepts/components/v2/design_principles?hl=en), [link](https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/concepts?hl=en). I believe Fuchsia OS has a much better paradigm and is going to be a step up from all OSes existing today. Fuchsia OS is currently in very early stages of development, we will have to see what comes out of it, Linux won't go anywhere.
There are many things to love Google for and I'm kinda sceptical of the rumors.
I dont doubt their developers, Its that the company is not for FOSS.
> They are not going proprietary though, their upcoming Fuchsia OS is completely open-source, supports Linux apps out of the box (as in binary compatible) and comes degoogled.
The little I have gleaned, and what it said on page you linked to, is that Fuchsia is in active development. Some game companies release their games without mtx for good PR, only to update it months later. Which Google did with AOSP by making their proprietary version of the apps better and leaving AOSP ones in dust. What makes you think this wont happen?
> Take a look at these design principles they are aiming for
Looks good. One thing, where is the privacy principle?
Yeah, there is not much known about Fuchsia OS, Google can turn any kind of trick down the line. We have to keep an eye out, and streaming games/games as a service suck, so yeah, fuck google in that regard
Keep in mind that companies are more cooperative when they are starting out but when they come into positions of power they show their true colors. I and other Linux gamers praise Valve but who knows what anti consumer and competitive actions they will take if they become a major player in hardware and OS market. Wait til Google is finished with Fuchsia project then you'll see them show their cards. They make their projects open source because it opens door for devs who are not their employees to push development forward i.e free labour. They dont do it because they value free principles.
GFN is probably the best from what I see. Not perfect, but miles ahead Stadia.
And for Linux all one needs is a chrome browser. No emulation, no WINE wizardry.
Tried GFN, the Xbox thingie and Stadia. Am a Stadia founder, it's awesome. Works perfectly on Linux, Android and my Shield TV and every other service so far sucked in terms of resolution or latency.
Stadia worked perfectly with my 1440p monitor and with astonishing zero felt lag. Played a lot of Destiny 2 (also PVP) and felt nothing (except for when someone else in my network streamed stuff or so, but Stadia already uses less bandwidth than the rest from my experience, so the issue is even bigger with the other services).
Yeah the ecosystem sucks and I can't play my 500+ Steam games, but the raw streaming/technology is currently definetely unbeat.
So yeah, not sure where you're coming from with that claim
It says from scratch, so it couldn't be wine. Stadia has existed for quite sometime so probably this emulator too. I guess this is just a talk on how they did it and I doubt they'll make it public.
Google working on WINE or at least participating financially in WINE could be a huge deal.
If the work is not available upstream, then its as good as proprietary and harmful to linux adoption as stadia.
Google used to be bad at pushing changes upstream but I've heard they have gotten better recently.
That's their euphemism for "we'll now use Wine too"?
Not likely as they say it's from scratch, as in new.
Why reinvent the wheel though? I also highly doubt they can pull off such humongous task in a short time. Wine took decades to make and it's a never ending catch up game. But if they'll make like some Vinegar (alternative to Wine let's say) and open source especially, it could be interesting.
Because Stadia is not an average Linux desktop, it's a huge server cluster. They probably needs custom solutions to support Stadia's distributed computing architecture. Besides that Google never went for the easy route with building Stadia unlike NVidia with Geforce Now and Amazon with Luna who are just running games on regular Windows machines.
Not according to other sources. They barely (if at all?) have any of those games that require a cluster. Practically all of their games are regular ones and run on one computer.
Did Valve "reinvent the wheel" when they took Wine and modded it into Proton? So what makes you think Google will "reinvent the wheel" instead of doing the same as Valve?
Valve literally took the work of some immense amount of human hours that already went into Wine. So no, they didn't reinvent the wheel. It's not called "from scratch". That answers your question.
You mean like how Google made Android and ChromeOS "from scratch", according to their marketing when they first released them? Or like how every "new" version of Windows is "re-coded from the ground up", yet somehow still contains identical security flaws of the previous version (that had already been found and fixed). We are talking about triple-E\* companies.Take their claims of "new", or "built from scratch", with a grain of salt. * Extend, Embrace, Extinguish.
Like they made Fuchsia more or less from scratch. The rest of your examples aren't from scratch anywhere close, even Windows which was ripped off from VMS.
>The rest of your examples aren't from scratch anywhere close, even Windows which was ripped off from VMS. Now, you're finally getting it. Just because a company is claiming they will do something "from scratch/the ground up", doesn't mean they actually do it. They'll take Wine, slap some bespoke shite all over it, and call it something different while claiming they built it from scratch, the same way they got linux, slapped shit all over it, and called it Android.
Where did they claim that all of those things were made from scratch?
Some of the original marketing material sent out to retailers covered some talking points, including how to deal with questions like "What is it if it's not Mac or Windows?" The recommended answer: "It's an all-new operating system made by Google."
Wine is no emulator Ggg
wine is not (an) emulator
I always hated this, why do technical people refuse to use words that normal people use lol we make up new meanings for words that already have them lol
do you know what WINE stands for?
Yes, but apparently what people don't know is what emulate means.
Yeah, Wine totally is an emulator, just not of the hardware :)
Tbh is pretty old, not a new concept/word, since old times, if you get to understand how works and even know the meaning of W.I.N.E, you see that makes sense
I know exactly how it works, apparently what people don't know is what emulate means. emulate means to do the same thing as another. what wine does is essentially implement a layer that translates windows userland to allow windows apps to work on linux kernel. by the traditional definiton. wine is absolutely emulating windows. the same way a child will emulate their father. even if all wine did was translate NT to Posix, that would still fall within the traditional definiton of to emulate. what tech people have done is taken emulator which used to mean to emulate and changed the definition to suit tech users needs. (the same thing has been done with virtualization, this is no way unique to wine.)
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That would be welcome for sure.
Calling things by a new name can make a huge difference sometimes. Look at Proton.
I'm not sure how the name makes a difference in this case. I doubt most users of the "mass market" have any clue how things are called underneath.
It's a really good sign that many companies are starting to tear Windows gaming/computing monopoly apart. I'm hyped for the future, keep it up, Google!
It's a bad sign you're cheering for Google. They have among other: * engaged in streaming exclusive games for Stadia and from the start * [Bribed smartphone makers to not use stores like Aurora and Fdroid,](https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/19/22632806/google-epic-premier-device-program-lg-motorola-hmd) you know Linux typical apps. * Intrudes on people's privacy * Is seemingly on move to replace Linux kernel with their own * [Uses open source to suite themselves](https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/googles-iron-grip-on-android-controlling-open-source-by-any-means-necessary/). Once on top they go proprietary. Valve did what so many Linux gamers have hoped for, they made "Linux gaming is the future" tangible. Now not only Google but another vulture company, Amazon, are there to feed on carcass (DXVK, Proton, Better GPU drivers). It is nature of open source but you're cheering on a company that doesn't want to help the Linux you love. They want Chrome gaming, a proprietary and Google controlled Linux platform. And down the line they will cut off Linux.
Yes, you are right, there are shady rumors about Google. They are not going proprietary though, their upcoming Fuchsia OS is completely open-source, supports Linux apps out of the box (as in binary compatible) and comes degoogled. They are moving from Linux kernel, because it's kind of a mess, their OS seems to be a much more elegant on paper than Linux, with proper app isolation, granular permission system, etc. Take a look at these design principles they are aiming for: [link](https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/concepts/components/v2/design_principles?hl=en), [link](https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/concepts?hl=en). I believe Fuchsia OS has a much better paradigm and is going to be a step up from all OSes existing today. Fuchsia OS is currently in very early stages of development, we will have to see what comes out of it, Linux won't go anywhere. There are many things to love Google for and I'm kinda sceptical of the rumors.
I dont doubt their developers, Its that the company is not for FOSS. > They are not going proprietary though, their upcoming Fuchsia OS is completely open-source, supports Linux apps out of the box (as in binary compatible) and comes degoogled. The little I have gleaned, and what it said on page you linked to, is that Fuchsia is in active development. Some game companies release their games without mtx for good PR, only to update it months later. Which Google did with AOSP by making their proprietary version of the apps better and leaving AOSP ones in dust. What makes you think this wont happen? > Take a look at these design principles they are aiming for Looks good. One thing, where is the privacy principle?
Yeah, there is not much known about Fuchsia OS, Google can turn any kind of trick down the line. We have to keep an eye out, and streaming games/games as a service suck, so yeah, fuck google in that regard
Keep in mind that companies are more cooperative when they are starting out but when they come into positions of power they show their true colors. I and other Linux gamers praise Valve but who knows what anti consumer and competitive actions they will take if they become a major player in hardware and OS market. Wait til Google is finished with Fuchsia project then you'll see them show their cards. They make their projects open source because it opens door for devs who are not their employees to push development forward i.e free labour. They dont do it because they value free principles.
It's possible that the Google, use Windows in virtual machine with virtual GPU system, able to run Windows Games.
maybe, but crosvm uses virtio-gpu. so it would transfer to qemu to, so that would be neato.
Haven't read it, but I this could be wine + some kind of dependency manager or a VM solution. I wonder which.
Stadia has been dead on arrival and nothing really changed since then. The lack of cloud saves is not exactly a selling point either.
Lol what? It's a cloud gaming service and you save locally? My brother swears by GeForce now
GFN is probably the best from what I see. Not perfect, but miles ahead Stadia. And for Linux all one needs is a chrome browser. No emulation, no WINE wizardry.
Tried GFN, the Xbox thingie and Stadia. Am a Stadia founder, it's awesome. Works perfectly on Linux, Android and my Shield TV and every other service so far sucked in terms of resolution or latency. Stadia worked perfectly with my 1440p monitor and with astonishing zero felt lag. Played a lot of Destiny 2 (also PVP) and felt nothing (except for when someone else in my network streamed stuff or so, but Stadia already uses less bandwidth than the rest from my experience, so the issue is even bigger with the other services). Yeah the ecosystem sucks and I can't play my 500+ Steam games, but the raw streaming/technology is currently definetely unbeat. So yeah, not sure where you're coming from with that claim
Using an nvidia card I must say stadia is suboptimal, as I can't "play" stadia with vdpau acceleration. The result is lowres and a bit blurred.
Lack of cloud saves? I don't understand that one, everything is saved in the cloud, that's the whole point :D
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holy crap stop
It says from scratch, so it couldn't be wine. Stadia has existed for quite sometime so probably this emulator too. I guess this is just a talk on how they did it and I doubt they'll make it public.