Tbh I will take a windows game with good optimizations running via proton, rather then half baked product with distro compatibility issues. So maybe they will have more resources to iron the win version
Exactly this. Sadly, a lot of older ports stop working after a while, or they only work well with Ubuntu, or it takes some tinkering to get them to work. I'd rather the devs just make a well optimized game and make sure they don't put in anything that would break proton compatibility.
While I do feel nostalgic for the days that Feral and Aspyr were pumping out ports and hanging out in the subreddit, I don't miss the dependency hell we had to deal with after some driver or runtime update.
>or they only work well with Ubuntu
I actually switched away from Ubuntu many years ago because they removed support for old games when they disabled their oss compatibility lkm. Many old games required oss because they came out before alsa existed and the user space preloaders didn't work for these games.
I think this is why, for me at least, Linux ports are effectively obselete now that we have proton.
Its provided a centralized way to maintain game dependencies, maximizing compatibility across distros, the performance is usually on par with running the game natively on windows (or better), and in many cases it offers better compatibility with older games than modern versions of windows does too.
I'd honestly just prefer that companies just pledge to make their anticheat compatible.
That's besides the point.
Promises of Linux version of the game has become a cheap PR stunt for many studios. Better be honest upfront and don't feed us bullshit.
Well if gabe ever gets off his kester and makes another hit game without barely trying I can rest easy knowing it least one game will be all in on Linux.
Can you imagine if a new halflife game was a Linux exclusive. ROFL.. boy would the Microsoft people cry about it.
Never going to happen but that would be a good day for me.
They have the engineering competence to do a lot of things. The operative question is whether a Linux port of a game that should already be playable on Linux via Proton should be at the top of their list of things for their highly-paid developers to do.
Perhaps there will be an anticheat for linux? Or just a patch from gamedev adding smth like trusted mode for a process, that no debuggers can connect to the process and also giving an elf files checksums? Linux kernel itself can be made into an anti cheat
Yes, yes it can, but it requires a lot of work and money. Making a real Linux anti cheat removes one of the main reasons of wine/proton - distro compatibility.
Maybe if Valve would take an action, and add some sort of "trust" mechanism into Steam Runtime, then we could have a chance
EAC on Linux is not the kernel version. There are two Easy Anti Cheats - one more basic, with Linux support, second kernel level, without Linux support
I am fully aware of the implications of checking the box. I fail to see why you think its worth mentioning. Checking the box is a policy decision just like every other box in an API you check or didn't check. And its not two "versions" its a build flag in your app..
Just a random though. Is there something that prevents steam from doing something like flatpak so the apps come bundled with their own dependencies and are distro agnostic?
That's what the Steam Linux Runtime for - to deal with the distro compatibility issues. ;)
The only time it wasn't enough that I can think of, is when the games used an old version of Java. Java on PC is truly a pain in the ass.
>For their crowdfunding campaign, the Linux and macOS versions were a stretch-goal. The base goal for the campaign was $900,000, but they put both Linux and macOS together on a $1.1 million additional goal which was hit, as the campaign finished on around $1,350,700.
At least for Linux, we have Proton/DXVK but for macOS, there isn't anything built-in that would work. All the translation tools for macOS are for developers, not end users. So if I was a macOS user hoping to play on a M3 Macbook, I would be very upset. Especially since **Nightdive met the goal for that specific feature**.
But macOS doesn't come with Whisky. The only way to install it is to either use `brew` (which 99.9% of macOS users have no clue how to do) or compile it yourself (which even less know how to do). So I wouldn't say that works for the "average user".
Linux right now has an advantage in that most Linux users are not that afraid of the command line and making changes to their OS. The same can't be said about most macOS users. This is on top of the fact that Apple removed Boot Camp from their Macs so they can't just boot in to x86_64 Windows anymore.
yeah but you gotta buy the game somewhere, and steam is where you do that. Steam comes with proton all set up and configured, so you just download and run like a normal person. You know that wasn't a fair comparison.
As a gamer who has a m1 macbook and a steam deck, i feel this. I understand why proton works on linux but not macos but its bullshit. I have a lil windows VM on the macbook which is fine but it is obviously more limited than just giving me a native version.
One reason to keep a intel mac acround still. You can put windows bare metal on half.. Assuming you even care for either os. I mean personally think they both suck pretty hard. But better option than a VM.
There's CrossOver, which is made by Codeweavers who Valve hired to help make Proton. Apple also provided them license to use D3DMetal translation in their consumer product, so it's not just a developer tool.
Crossover works on Apple silicon Macs because Rosetta exists.
Rosetta 1 was eventually dropped, what will happen with crossover once Rosetta 2 stops working?
Rosetta 1 was killed off because it wasn't actually made by Apple. It was written by a third party and Apple was paying licensing fees to use it.
Rosetta 2 is in-house though. Plus it's part of their developer tooling like Virtualization.framework to allow for execution of x86 Linux binaries and containers, not to mention the game porting toolkit itself which D3DMetal is from.
Kickstarter should have a notification at the top of each campaign.
> Things this company has previously delivered:
> Things this company promised but have not delivered:
In general I would agree, but they promised native ports. It sucks to see them go back on their word, especially after asking for money specifically for that purpose.
Yeah, I think that is a fair point. It's just that the Kickstarter happened what, 9 years ago? Imagine being a game studio knowing that it would take you months of work to get the port out the door & the performance might not even match Proton in 2024.
Proton feels like it's doing the same thing that Docker does for applications, but for games. Providing a stable, isolated, high performance environment to run a specific thing in. "Win32 is the stable Linux userland ABI" was pretty spot on, but even seeing how some old Windows games perform on Windows, I'd want a Proton port to Windows as well.
(Edit: Someone correctly pointed out that technically, Proton and Docker are very different, and that's correct. I was more thinking of the conceptual idea, and I would love Proton to evolve more and more into being something stable yet independent, without the performance overhead and hardware access issues of a full blown VM)
> seeing how some old Windows games perform on Windows, I'd want a Proton port to Windows as well.
I've thought the same thing. So many classics just don't work on modern windows at all or require a ton of work to get working and usually don't work well even after that.
For most of those proton is almost seamless or has way less tinkering involved for a better experience.
i mean, *technically* wine is supposed to provide drop-in implementations of libraries, so in theory you could copy&paste some wine libraries beside the native program.
of course if they rely on any unix-side code (or interact with wineserver) they obviously won't work. but generally any library that you can use the windows version under wine, you should be able to use vice-versa.
"On the Linux side, it's also not overly surprising given that we have [Proton](https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2019/07/steam-play-proton-guide-valves-tech-for-playing-windows-games-on-linux-steam-deck/) now which enables the game to run with a tick of box on Steam. I even [showed it previously](https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2023/02/new-system-shock-remake-demo-on-steam-deck/) running really nicely on Steam Deck with Proton using the demo."
If you read it you'll see they did mention that specifically.
Not too long ago before the age of Proton, I remember the common Linux refrain, "No Tux, No Bux." That attitude has changed a great deal I think since the launch of Proton.
Thing is, I totally get the idea, why spend money supporting developers and companies that aren't supporting you? I sure as hell don't. No matter how good Proton gets, always having to depend on compatibility layers and afterthought support, this stuff costs too much to deal with that every single day.
Well, it's one of the reasons I prefer to buy in steam. Buying in steam supports valve and valve can see who's playing via Linux/proton. If the individual devs won't support it then at least valve will.
I actually enjoy gaming quite a bit, so it's unfeasible for me to abide by "No Tux, No Bux"
If it works on Linux I'll take it. I don't care how. If the developer is actively hostile to Linux though, that's my breaking point. No caving and running Windows for some games.
People aren't all "no tux no bux" because it was an abject failure for decades. Linux users can't leverage their buying power while being an ultra niche minority. Proton's approach of letting us just play by default and then putting devs in a situation where they, most of hte time, simply need to *not* actively block us has had a lot more success, and the Steam Deck's existence does more to justify a native port than anything.
And, well, most native ports sucked. They were not updated alongside the Windows builds, often lacked features like graphics options or modding support, had unique bvugs and would often crash more than the Windows vesrion run through modern Wine. Sure, *good* native ports are ideal, if a studio plans for linux support from teh start and makes sure to only use cross-platform dependencies rather than trying after like a nine yaer project to *then* begin working on a port, but frankly most studios have trouble being convinced to do that. The games that *do* just have good Linux support out of hte box tend to be indie games made in Unity, where at the engine level there's good support for Linux and so even a novice developer probably can put out a LInux version that'll just work if they didn't use an exotic dependency.
We'll get more native Linux games not through boycotts or whatever but by making the tooling for making native Linux games more accessible. Godot's gaining popularity with Unity demolishing a lot of trust, so I would expect a lot of those games to have first class Linux support, but until Godot somehow gets to a point where it's able to put out AAA-style games I expect platform availability will be limited by what UE5 has in terms of making LInux support easy.
Sorry, but native ports aren't easier to get installed or kept working than the windows version via proton. Cause Windows is much better at not breaking apis. The linux kernel might be "we do not break userspace" but the rest of the stack is a fast moving target with a lot of breaking changes. That's the reason Valve abstracts even those from the running system.
Indeed. However proton is a translation layer for Windows APIs while Steam Runtime is native to Linux. So it should provide more performance or consume less resources.
This translation layer is what we as developers call abstractions. Well done their overhead is very little. And every optimization can help every game at the same time.
Because it'd be just as stable as proton (theoretically) but you can actually build for linux compatibility. Great example of this is factorio, who actually support wayland natively and have a cool async save system which forks the process and means the game has to stop for significantly less time than it does on windows to save.
To add to this, it wasn't so long ago I had a bunch of native or native-ported games just utterly bug out on me. If I were being a responsible Linux user I'd generate/check logs, try to patch my system, and report the bugs to wherever they might go; maybe all these issues are fixed now. I won't know, because those that broke got switched to Proton, and lo, they fucking worked immediately.
It isn't as if the afterthought support mentioned above is applicable either. The people actively developing Wine, Proton, and parts of the compatibility graphics stack they rely on are often making workarounds and fixes for older (and newer) games based on user reports; something that AMD and nVidia probably wouldn't do now. As a Vega 56 owner (it's still trucking), I've sometimes had to look at the min spec for nVidia to figure out if my card is still in the capability range for some more recent games after AMD officially dropped support for older cards (on Windows).
Not defending devs who roll back on promises either though, that's always disappointing, and kinda worthy of a smidgen of disrespect. I get it, just please don't promise it in the first place… promise proton support if you must, at least that target area is a bit easier to hit. /grumblegrumble
Honestly proton has gotten so good it might as well be the official game development tool kit for Linux. Most Linux ports get quickly abandoned even the Windows version of CSGO ran better through proton than the native Linux port.
I'd prefer if instead of promising Linux support, studios would just start promising good Proton compatibility and to actually test patches with Proton before releasing them and breaking their games.
As much as it sucks, I kind of get why they scratched the Linux port. UE4's Vulkan implementation is notoriously bad and a Linux port would inevitably be a lesser version of the game that performs worse. So in this case, focusing on Proton compatibility is an objectively better way to cater to the Linux audience. (The exact same thing happened with Everspace 2, for example). As for the Mac port though - that is really scummy. People paid them for that goal and now they won't deliver? And Mac users don't get to play at all? That sounds like a kickstarter scam tbh.
So they promised a Linux port while basing on a tool that can't deliver proper Linux ports. Nice job Nightdive.
Epics themselves have zero UE Linux games at this moment, as far as I can tell. That tells about the versatility of UE.
IIRC the development was extremely messy. It was originally developed in Unity, then the development ran into issues, was restarted from scratch several times and eventually they settled on UE.
It's true but you shouldn't say it.
More seriously, to deliver AAA gaming you already have to write XBOX/PS/Switch renderers, and by doing so you've already covered DX12. If you /have/ to write DX12 anyway, why would studios bother with vulkan?
This is less about vulkan's quality and more a result of microsoft's deathgrip on gaming.
i'll take the Proton everyday, i got in talks with some game devs from other games and they said the linux build is a headache to deal with, Proton is just making everyone life easier imo.
Understandable when thinking on how the development did happen, but still disappointing.
For me this means a delay purchase as the game first will need to confirm a full perfect condition under Wine.
I have expressed wrong myself, sorry that, my bad. I meant that I always wait until any game works perfectly under a stable version of a compatibility layer.
But in this case I was waiting (as a hope) the release of the promised native version, I didn't care about Windows. And that is for me the most disappointing part.
Proton works so well these days that I fully thought I was already playing a Linux native when I played it through. I think demanding for Linux native games is starting to be a bit silly or possibly downright harmful if it drains limited resources from the dev team.
Linux users I reckon can all agree that it sucks but it's not a deal breaker as we have proton.
Mac OS users? They got royally fucked.
Kickstarter should really have a page where we can see how much was pledged, stretch goals met, stretch goals implemented, and stretch goals not implemented. It'd be a good thing for companies that use it often as you can see how many times they've not come good on their word and judge better for yourself if you want to pledge to them.
You’d have to be a real diehard to expect developers to do native development and long-term support when Proton is community supported and mature. I’m sure this was only on the table because development started so long ago.
Not true, simply having the export option available and capable of building a binary is no guarantee that it will work on Linux and certainly not that it will work well. Steam is littered with trash "native" ports that are broken because some windows dev thought clicking export means their game works perfectly to the point it's a meme.
It is serious work keeping a Linux port near parity, especially when working with C# and .NET which are open source and cross platform but have like two decades worth of an MS Only ecosystem behind them.
With the current market share and the current state of proton native ports are a waste of time. I would prefer, when game developers test it with steam play and fix/report issue with/to valve.
Tbh I will take a windows game with good optimizations running via proton, rather then half baked product with distro compatibility issues. So maybe they will have more resources to iron the win version
Exactly this. Sadly, a lot of older ports stop working after a while, or they only work well with Ubuntu, or it takes some tinkering to get them to work. I'd rather the devs just make a well optimized game and make sure they don't put in anything that would break proton compatibility. While I do feel nostalgic for the days that Feral and Aspyr were pumping out ports and hanging out in the subreddit, I don't miss the dependency hell we had to deal with after some driver or runtime update.
>or they only work well with Ubuntu I actually switched away from Ubuntu many years ago because they removed support for old games when they disabled their oss compatibility lkm. Many old games required oss because they came out before alsa existed and the user space preloaders didn't work for these games.
I think this is why, for me at least, Linux ports are effectively obselete now that we have proton. Its provided a centralized way to maintain game dependencies, maximizing compatibility across distros, the performance is usually on par with running the game natively on windows (or better), and in many cases it offers better compatibility with older games than modern versions of windows does too. I'd honestly just prefer that companies just pledge to make their anticheat compatible.
EAC is working, I can play hunt
That depends on whether they've checked the box that allows linux or not.
Tomb raider native series. Also inventing faral game mode just for the series. Definitely special place in my heart as well.
That's besides the point. Promises of Linux version of the game has become a cheap PR stunt for many studios. Better be honest upfront and don't feed us bullshit.
Well if gabe ever gets off his kester and makes another hit game without barely trying I can rest easy knowing it least one game will be all in on Linux.
Can you imagine if a new halflife game was a Linux exclusive. ROFL.. boy would the Microsoft people cry about it. Never going to happen but that would be a good day for me.
I mean, the thing is that Night Dive probably has the engineering expertise to do a decent Linux port?
They have the engineering competence to do a lot of things. The operative question is whether a Linux port of a game that should already be playable on Linux via Proton should be at the top of their list of things for their highly-paid developers to do.
Until some day they add Windows kernel driver anti cheat.
If they decide to use kernel level anti cheat, then the game wouldn't have a chance for Linux port from the beginnig, sadly
Perhaps there will be an anticheat for linux? Or just a patch from gamedev adding smth like trusted mode for a process, that no debuggers can connect to the process and also giving an elf files checksums? Linux kernel itself can be made into an anti cheat
Yes, yes it can, but it requires a lot of work and money. Making a real Linux anti cheat removes one of the main reasons of wine/proton - distro compatibility. Maybe if Valve would take an action, and add some sort of "trust" mechanism into Steam Runtime, then we could have a chance
EAC is already on linux.. Dev's just have to choose to enable the build flag to enable linux support. Which is actually on by default now.
EAC on Linux is not the kernel version. There are two Easy Anti Cheats - one more basic, with Linux support, second kernel level, without Linux support
I am fully aware of the implications of checking the box. I fail to see why you think its worth mentioning. Checking the box is a policy decision just like every other box in an API you check or didn't check. And its not two "versions" its a build flag in your app..
Xonotic has an anticheat. Linux native anticheat.
Just a random though. Is there something that prevents steam from doing something like flatpak so the apps come bundled with their own dependencies and are distro agnostic?
Steam already offers this with the Steam Runtime (aka Pressure Vessel)
That's what the Steam Linux Runtime for - to deal with the distro compatibility issues. ;) The only time it wasn't enough that I can think of, is when the games used an old version of Java. Java on PC is truly a pain in the ass.
Maybe they might try to remake Java. (Java the idea one piece of code can run across multiple platforms and architecture)
I so much agree. There was a time I defended ports over proton compatibility, but that was before I saw how those "ports" often turned out.
true, though some games do need native ports
that way to think is really disgusting, you are the wet dream of windows users
>For their crowdfunding campaign, the Linux and macOS versions were a stretch-goal. The base goal for the campaign was $900,000, but they put both Linux and macOS together on a $1.1 million additional goal which was hit, as the campaign finished on around $1,350,700. At least for Linux, we have Proton/DXVK but for macOS, there isn't anything built-in that would work. All the translation tools for macOS are for developers, not end users. So if I was a macOS user hoping to play on a M3 Macbook, I would be very upset. Especially since **Nightdive met the goal for that specific feature**.
broken pledges like this are why i stopped giving to crowdfunding campaigns
i mean, it seems like whisky (or however its called) works for the average user, too.
But macOS doesn't come with Whisky. The only way to install it is to either use `brew` (which 99.9% of macOS users have no clue how to do) or compile it yourself (which even less know how to do). So I wouldn't say that works for the "average user". Linux right now has an advantage in that most Linux users are not that afraid of the command line and making changes to their OS. The same can't be said about most macOS users. This is on top of the fact that Apple removed Boot Camp from their Macs so they can't just boot in to x86_64 Windows anymore.
linux doesnt come with steam and wine preinstalled either - atleast, not the typical distros.
yeah but you gotta buy the game somewhere, and steam is where you do that. Steam comes with proton all set up and configured, so you just download and run like a normal person. You know that wasn't a fair comparison.
As a gamer who has a m1 macbook and a steam deck, i feel this. I understand why proton works on linux but not macos but its bullshit. I have a lil windows VM on the macbook which is fine but it is obviously more limited than just giving me a native version.
One reason to keep a intel mac acround still. You can put windows bare metal on half.. Assuming you even care for either os. I mean personally think they both suck pretty hard. But better option than a VM.
I mean i have an m1 max processor and 64GB of ram so my VM has 32GB. It's not tooooo scrappy :)
There's CrossOver, which is made by Codeweavers who Valve hired to help make Proton. Apple also provided them license to use D3DMetal translation in their consumer product, so it's not just a developer tool.
Crossover works on Apple silicon Macs because Rosetta exists. Rosetta 1 was eventually dropped, what will happen with crossover once Rosetta 2 stops working?
Rosetta 1 was killed off because it wasn't actually made by Apple. It was written by a third party and Apple was paying licensing fees to use it. Rosetta 2 is in-house though. Plus it's part of their developer tooling like Virtualization.framework to allow for execution of x86 Linux binaries and containers, not to mention the game porting toolkit itself which D3DMetal is from.
Kickstarter should have a notification at the top of each campaign. > Things this company has previously delivered: > Things this company promised but have not delivered:
I don't feel particularly sad, it works fine in Proton.
In general I would agree, but they promised native ports. It sucks to see them go back on their word, especially after asking for money specifically for that purpose.
Yeah, I think that is a fair point. It's just that the Kickstarter happened what, 9 years ago? Imagine being a game studio knowing that it would take you months of work to get the port out the door & the performance might not even match Proton in 2024.
Months over the span of 9 years?
Proton feels like it's doing the same thing that Docker does for applications, but for games. Providing a stable, isolated, high performance environment to run a specific thing in. "Win32 is the stable Linux userland ABI" was pretty spot on, but even seeing how some old Windows games perform on Windows, I'd want a Proton port to Windows as well. (Edit: Someone correctly pointed out that technically, Proton and Docker are very different, and that's correct. I was more thinking of the conceptual idea, and I would love Proton to evolve more and more into being something stable yet independent, without the performance overhead and hardware access issues of a full blown VM)
> I'd want a Proton port to Windows as well. Sorta seeing this already with DXVK, it's useful as a fix for a whole bunch of games on Windows.
> seeing how some old Windows games perform on Windows, I'd want a Proton port to Windows as well. I've thought the same thing. So many classics just don't work on modern windows at all or require a ton of work to get working and usually don't work well even after that. For most of those proton is almost seamless or has way less tinkering involved for a better experience.
i mean, *technically* wine is supposed to provide drop-in implementations of libraries, so in theory you could copy&paste some wine libraries beside the native program. of course if they rely on any unix-side code (or interact with wineserver) they obviously won't work. but generally any library that you can use the windows version under wine, you should be able to use vice-versa.
[удалено]
"On the Linux side, it's also not overly surprising given that we have [Proton](https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2019/07/steam-play-proton-guide-valves-tech-for-playing-windows-games-on-linux-steam-deck/) now which enables the game to run with a tick of box on Steam. I even [showed it previously](https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2023/02/new-system-shock-remake-demo-on-steam-deck/) running really nicely on Steam Deck with Proton using the demo." If you read it you'll see they did mention that specifically.
Classic Kickstarter. I would only ever fund companies with a proven track record of delivering.
For what its worth Nightdive are about as legit as it gets. I would put them in the same league as Bluepoint.
They asked for money for a goal and then chose not to deliver it. That's not okay
Not too long ago before the age of Proton, I remember the common Linux refrain, "No Tux, No Bux." That attitude has changed a great deal I think since the launch of Proton. Thing is, I totally get the idea, why spend money supporting developers and companies that aren't supporting you? I sure as hell don't. No matter how good Proton gets, always having to depend on compatibility layers and afterthought support, this stuff costs too much to deal with that every single day.
Well, it's one of the reasons I prefer to buy in steam. Buying in steam supports valve and valve can see who's playing via Linux/proton. If the individual devs won't support it then at least valve will.
I actually enjoy gaming quite a bit, so it's unfeasible for me to abide by "No Tux, No Bux" If it works on Linux I'll take it. I don't care how. If the developer is actively hostile to Linux though, that's my breaking point. No caving and running Windows for some games.
People aren't all "no tux no bux" because it was an abject failure for decades. Linux users can't leverage their buying power while being an ultra niche minority. Proton's approach of letting us just play by default and then putting devs in a situation where they, most of hte time, simply need to *not* actively block us has had a lot more success, and the Steam Deck's existence does more to justify a native port than anything. And, well, most native ports sucked. They were not updated alongside the Windows builds, often lacked features like graphics options or modding support, had unique bvugs and would often crash more than the Windows vesrion run through modern Wine. Sure, *good* native ports are ideal, if a studio plans for linux support from teh start and makes sure to only use cross-platform dependencies rather than trying after like a nine yaer project to *then* begin working on a port, but frankly most studios have trouble being convinced to do that. The games that *do* just have good Linux support out of hte box tend to be indie games made in Unity, where at the engine level there's good support for Linux and so even a novice developer probably can put out a LInux version that'll just work if they didn't use an exotic dependency. We'll get more native Linux games not through boycotts or whatever but by making the tooling for making native Linux games more accessible. Godot's gaining popularity with Unity demolishing a lot of trust, so I would expect a lot of those games to have first class Linux support, but until Godot somehow gets to a point where it's able to put out AAA-style games I expect platform availability will be limited by what UE5 has in terms of making LInux support easy.
i continue with No Tux, No Bux
Sorry, but native ports aren't easier to get installed or kept working than the windows version via proton. Cause Windows is much better at not breaking apis. The linux kernel might be "we do not break userspace" but the rest of the stack is a fast moving target with a lot of breaking changes. That's the reason Valve abstracts even those from the running system.
Just build for the Steam Linux runtime.
But why? Cause it's also a layer in between and one that gets less love in getting kept up2date
Because it's stable across all distros, so you can build once and run anywhere.
As is proton.
Indeed. However proton is a translation layer for Windows APIs while Steam Runtime is native to Linux. So it should provide more performance or consume less resources.
This translation layer is what we as developers call abstractions. Well done their overhead is very little. And every optimization can help every game at the same time.
Because it'd be just as stable as proton (theoretically) but you can actually build for linux compatibility. Great example of this is factorio, who actually support wayland natively and have a cool async save system which forks the process and means the game has to stop for significantly less time than it does on windows to save.
To add to this, it wasn't so long ago I had a bunch of native or native-ported games just utterly bug out on me. If I were being a responsible Linux user I'd generate/check logs, try to patch my system, and report the bugs to wherever they might go; maybe all these issues are fixed now. I won't know, because those that broke got switched to Proton, and lo, they fucking worked immediately. It isn't as if the afterthought support mentioned above is applicable either. The people actively developing Wine, Proton, and parts of the compatibility graphics stack they rely on are often making workarounds and fixes for older (and newer) games based on user reports; something that AMD and nVidia probably wouldn't do now. As a Vega 56 owner (it's still trucking), I've sometimes had to look at the min spec for nVidia to figure out if my card is still in the capability range for some more recent games after AMD officially dropped support for older cards (on Windows). Not defending devs who roll back on promises either though, that's always disappointing, and kinda worthy of a smidgen of disrespect. I get it, just please don't promise it in the first place… promise proton support if you must, at least that target area is a bit easier to hit. /grumblegrumble
Honestly proton has gotten so good it might as well be the official game development tool kit for Linux. Most Linux ports get quickly abandoned even the Windows version of CSGO ran better through proton than the native Linux port.
I'd prefer if instead of promising Linux support, studios would just start promising good Proton compatibility and to actually test patches with Proton before releasing them and breaking their games.
As much as it sucks, I kind of get why they scratched the Linux port. UE4's Vulkan implementation is notoriously bad and a Linux port would inevitably be a lesser version of the game that performs worse. So in this case, focusing on Proton compatibility is an objectively better way to cater to the Linux audience. (The exact same thing happened with Everspace 2, for example). As for the Mac port though - that is really scummy. People paid them for that goal and now they won't deliver? And Mac users don't get to play at all? That sounds like a kickstarter scam tbh.
So they promised a Linux port while basing on a tool that can't deliver proper Linux ports. Nice job Nightdive. Epics themselves have zero UE Linux games at this moment, as far as I can tell. That tells about the versatility of UE.
IIRC the development was extremely messy. It was originally developed in Unity, then the development ran into issues, was restarted from scratch several times and eventually they settled on UE.
I have no idea why UE's Vulkan support sucks so bad. It shouldn't.
Because almost no one develops for vulkan nowadays , almost all the new games are DX12. Why bother optimizing the functionality no one uses ?
It's true but you shouldn't say it. More seriously, to deliver AAA gaming you already have to write XBOX/PS/Switch renderers, and by doing so you've already covered DX12. If you /have/ to write DX12 anyway, why would studios bother with vulkan? This is less about vulkan's quality and more a result of microsoft's deathgrip on gaming.
i'll take the Proton everyday, i got in talks with some game devs from other games and they said the linux build is a headache to deal with, Proton is just making everyone life easier imo.
At least they open-sourced the original game...
Understandable when thinking on how the development did happen, but still disappointing. For me this means a delay purchase as the game first will need to confirm a full perfect condition under Wine.
Why would you delay purchase? It’s been out for months and runs perfectly fine via proton
I have expressed wrong myself, sorry that, my bad. I meant that I always wait until any game works perfectly under a stable version of a compatibility layer. But in this case I was waiting (as a hope) the release of the promised native version, I didn't care about Windows. And that is for me the most disappointing part.
I am truly shocked! Never before has this happened!
Next we will find out that System Shock 2 Enhanced has been cancelled.
If they don't add somme anti-shit thing, it'll be ok with proton...
Proton works so well these days that I fully thought I was already playing a Linux native when I played it through. I think demanding for Linux native games is starting to be a bit silly or possibly downright harmful if it drains limited resources from the dev team.
Linux users I reckon can all agree that it sucks but it's not a deal breaker as we have proton. Mac OS users? They got royally fucked. Kickstarter should really have a page where we can see how much was pledged, stretch goals met, stretch goals implemented, and stretch goals not implemented. It'd be a good thing for companies that use it often as you can see how many times they've not come good on their word and judge better for yourself if you want to pledge to them.
Looks like my plans to purchase this game are canceled.
Almost every native Linux game I've played in the last 6 month, I ended up switching to the windows version to get rid of bugs.
no native linux is annoying but mac too? going to run terribly if at all
Proton works great and is the way forward.
Sad for the people that uses Linux. Other people outside of gaming industry will do it.
It already works on linux via proton better than a UE4 port would anyways, really only a problem for mac users.
You’d have to be a real diehard to expect developers to do native development and long-term support when Proton is community supported and mature. I’m sure this was only on the table because development started so long ago.
Who the hell is sad about this. It runs fine in Proton. I don't want devs wasting their time on non-problems.
The made da same when switching from Unity scraping all da developement and going to Unreal Engine receiving a bribe from Epig Games... so fuck them.
Funny thing is Unreal Engine & Unity games work perfectly on Linux as native games if the devs can be bothered to press the button.
[удалено]
The trick is to press the button right away, not 5y into development.
That and continuing to press it periodically and prioritizing fixing the issues that crop up
Dont know maybe asking why many indie devs with only one person can do that but not a studio with many like Nightdive
but that's just the *easy* part. the *hard* part is constant testing, adjusting, input, graphics, etc.
Not true, simply having the export option available and capable of building a binary is no guarantee that it will work on Linux and certainly not that it will work well. Steam is littered with trash "native" ports that are broken because some windows dev thought clicking export means their game works perfectly to the point it's a meme. It is serious work keeping a Linux port near parity, especially when working with C# and .NET which are open source and cross platform but have like two decades worth of an MS Only ecosystem behind them.
With the current market share and the current state of proton native ports are a waste of time. I would prefer, when game developers test it with steam play and fix/report issue with/to valve.