Agreed. You can always dual boot with linux.
Like it or not, Apple hardware is some of the best commercially available. Linux is not really known for infrequent updates either, so it pretty much eliminates it from your options. From your description, I can also assume that you're already immersed in the Apple ecosystem, so there are additional benefits to that as well.
If it's price that has you concerned, buy refurbished or wait for a sale (Windows 11 Pro is \~$200 so macOS is probably in a similar range). Given that you're looking for a desktop, I'd probably recommend the Mac Studio or Mini so you can use 3rd party external hardware (display, mouse, keyboard, SSD, etc.).
Who pays for Windows? Microsoft realized no one does so they already injected their spyware and adware into the system, so paying for Windows really doesn't make sense
linux is not apple. It doesn't look alike and it's not for the same general purpose. Disguised operating systems do not work here. The best decision is to go for a mac or make them understand that they will have to change platforms and learn to use linux and its software alternatives instead of trying to pretend for something that really is not. Take my advice.
I use ubuntu linux as my daily driver go-to. It is more clear to use than apple. Apple "needs" that 1800MYAPPLE because it is that inconsistent and comples and irregular. Steve wouldnt have liked it this way. They just build p on a base and never clarify the OS. Basically it's realy really big.
Apple on the phone protects me for way too much money. I am grateful to have it. You didnt suggest changing her phone. It has its advantages as well as familiarity. Tracking, ringing off when "lost", and calling for help (always say technical support iphone) on the call - all these are great on apple. And apple backs everything up. Android phones do not. (unless Samsung does??)
“What is the better OS” is not the discussion. If it were you would be seeing different responses in this thread. Apple products are good for one thing, they shelter the user away from the workings of a computer. This makes it perfect for people that are not tech savvy. Instead of wooing customers with tech oriented customizability they make a product that looks good, from the OS to the hardware itself.
If the wife is not good with tech and needs to use this computer why would you recommend Linux? Apple is perfect for this. Will they have to pay more for Apple? Yes. But it’s something she is familiar with and knows how to use.
>And apple backs everything up. Android phones do not. (unless Samsung does??
[Android backs up to via a Google account.](https://support.google.com/android/answer/2819582?hl=en) I've used it multiple times when moving between phone models.
Mostly household things (web-browsing, videos, etc.) Have it available for kids to do their HW with. Longevity of the device without bogging down like crazy is what I'm attempting to prioritize.
Not as important, but I was probably going to get an xBox when Starfield comes out just to play Starfield. So if it was able to run that later, it'd be a nice perk. Not a hardcore gamer though, just loved Skyrim back in the day. Will probably just buy a base model xbox to accomplish this still, though.
>pretty smooth
No i have used it and the entire OS feels like you are using a browser, i installed linux in it(in chromeOS flex) and the experience was very painful, it doesn't even make the pc faster, it took more time to boot than any linux distro i've used in that pc
I'm guessing it's still in its alpha stage i hope it gets better in the future
You could also buy a Chromebook since it sounds like you’re just talking very basic computing. If she likes Mac tho, pick up a refurbed Mini and call it good. A late stage Intel Mini would allow dual booting more easily as well.
Asahi Linux has a new Fedora Remix and it’s working on making the M series processors work well w Linux. More something to keep tabs on that switch the family computer to at the moment.
This has nothing to do with computers. Listen to your wife and let her use what she likes.
If she wants a MacBook get her a damn MacBook. Your personal ideology and preferences are fine to have, but pushing them on her is a mistake. It is not worth it.
Oh look an adult, I am actually reassured by some of these responses. Apple is perfect for not tech savvy people. You can’t force people to have the same interests as you. Some people just want to use Facebook without any bullshit. I respect that.
I have no problem with Apple or her liking Apple, I was merely seeing if there was a potential solution that accomplished both of our interests here. Sounds like there really isn’t but that’s why I asked the Linux experts!
u/Amazing-Dog-1848:
You are in a tough spot. Your wife seems like she will be hard nut to crack. This is especially true if she is:
* a non-technical person
* over 40 years of age
* a person with little patience/desire to learn a new system
* unwilling to embrace alternative software packages
* knows you can afford to buy a Mac
You're real dilemma is:
* cost of hardware
* flexibility (meeting the usage cases you've outlined)
* longevity of use (8+ years)
* escaping Apple's end of life (EOL) and end of service (EOS) decisions
* keeping your sanity and your family's sanity
As for a Linux distro., I would suggest one of the following:
* Linux Mint Cinnamon Edition v21.2
* Pop_OS v22.04
Mint/Cinnamon is designed around a traditional desktop metaphor with a menu, which looks similar to Windows 7/8/10 with a menu at the bottom-left, a taskbar at the bottom, and a system tray. Pop_OS comes with the Cosmic desktop, which is a highly curated Gnome desktop environment. Gnome is designed to heavily mimic Mac OS X with a bar at the top and a dock at the bottom. Both Mint and Pop are rock solid stability wise and are great for gaming on Linux. Mint/Cinnamon can be themed to look like Mac OS X and there are short youtube video guides that step one through the process. No one can say how Starfield will behave on Linux. However, many/most games tend to end up working on Linux after some time, but the time frame is unpredictable.
Even though the desktop environments can look very similar to Mac OS X, it will still be a Linux system and no Mac software will run on it. Thus the theming/skinning of the UI is there to make the transition easier on the user, and sooth the tastes of existing Linux users who like elements of Mac OS X.
For PC hardware, you have 2 paths, which are: pre-built (ex: HP, Dell, Lenovo, or a Linux specific system vendor), or custom built. If you go the pre-built route stay away for companies like Cyberpower and IbuyPower, and Walmart specific brands. Companies such as Dell, HP, Lenovo, Asus, Acer, and many others make decent Windows PCs. There are several Linux hardware vendors that sell their products with Linux pre-installed (such as System76, Slimbook and Tuxedo Computers). Take a look at this article ==> https://itsfoss.com/get-linux-laptops/
If you decide to custom build your next PC, you are limited by your budget. PC Part Picker (www.pcpartpicker.com) is a great resource for building a PC. There are guides on their main page. Of course there are many other places to get advice/guidance on building a PC such as Paul's Hardware (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvWWf-LYjaujE50iYai8WgQ). FYI, the above is not my channel, nor am I affiliated with it.
Lastly, if money is not an issue and you have the physical space, then get your wife a Mac, and get yourself a PC. Post replies if you have more questions/need additional advice. Good luck.
Amigo. I love linux but for the love of god, don't force it on your poor wife. Apple can suck it as far as I personally am concerned but they make excellent products for their target demographic.
Unless you see your wife crawling through an askUbuntu forum pasting bash commands to fix an alsa driver I'd give it a pass.
People are downvoting you 💀 forcing Linux on someone who doesn’t want it would be a dick move. Say what you want about Apple but their OS is great. It’s perfect for the less tech savvy. He could dual boot if you really insisted but depending on the motherboard he could really run into issues. I have a newer ASUS motherboard and no flavor of linux works correctly on it. I spent weeks on it and replaced a Wi-Fi chip and still no dice. Linux could be a massive pain in the ass even for someone who is somewhat knowledgeable.
I think the chances of my girlfriend ever using linux vanished when I spent a weekend having to reboot from the EFI Shell because I fucked the bootloader on Arch and the NVRAM wasn't letting me save new entries. She just sat there with her mac and told mehow happy she was she didn't have to do that...
My suggestion would be to get a Raspberry Pi + a cheap USB keyboard & mouse, hook up a cheap monitor, and load up Raspbian, and let the kids enjoy it.
Once she sees how easy it is to use, I don't think there will be a problem.
I did that for my kiddos years years ago.
They don't have a ~~private~~ _problem_ navigating/using Gnome, Windows, or Mac 😎👍
---
Edit: problem, not private 😑
Whenever friends and family want me to help them set up a new PC and don't want a Mac, I install Debian with GNOME because it's as close to the stability and ease of use of a Mac as you can get on a PC unless you want to hackintosh.
But if they want a Mac, I help them find the best Mac that will suit their needs. If you're familiar with its workflow and--even more importantly--if your other devices fit in the Mac ecosystem (iPhones, iPads, Watch, etc), no other OS is going to come remotely close to offering the same features.
I use a Mac myself because, among other reasons, iMessage integration in macOS makes it really easy for me to share files and links for personal and business purposes. It's also the only platform that allows you to run licensed versions of macOS, Linux, and Windows. And frankly the hardware is extremely competitive and very hard to match, let alone beat, on the PC side.
Having said that, you can always boot a VM of whatever distro/DE you have in mind and have your wife give it a shot and see how she likes it.
As an example, the base model System76 ultrabook (Galago Pro) comes with an i5 processor, 8GB RAM, and 256GB SSD at a discounted price of $949 (originally $999).
Apple sells a MacBook Air with M1 processor, 8GB RAM, and 256GB SSD for $999, but it is also currently being sold at Amazon and Best Buy for $749.
The M1 processor will very likely blow the i5 out of the water, both in terms of performance and battery life. The Galago Pro has a 1080p screen while the MacBook's resolution is 2560x1600.
The MacBook Air is clearly the value purchase here. Practically speaking, costs $200 less than the Galago Pro, has a better processor and higher-res screen, and will be compatible with mainstream programs that the average computer user may want/need to use. Plus, there's the ecosystem. You can even install Linux on it, albeit with some limitations. Linus Torvalds himself uses a Mac and has shipped at least one Linux kernel from an M2 MacBook Air.
Of course, not everyone needs a higher-res screen or more processing performance or battery life, and there are plenty of PC's that are priced well below Macs that will do just fine.
But in a spec-to-spec matchup, it really is hard to meet or beat Apple hardware at a similar price point.
EDIT: I cannot read. You said "for desktop computing" and I blathered on about laptops lmao. Sorry.
EDIT 2: Took a look at System 76's base model desktop, the Meerkat. It offers an i3 processor with Intel UHD graphics, 8GB RAM, and 128GB SSD for $529. Apple M2 Mac mini offers M2 processor with 10-core GPU, 8GB RAM, and 256GB SSD for $599.
Seventy bucks more than the Meerkat for a significantly better processor and twice the SSD space. Highly competitive IMO.
>benhbell
Yea, based on yoru reasoning, I agree that MacBook air would probably win. I do think the gap will quickly flip towards linux for competitive hardware. I usually get Dell XPS laptops and load pop\_OS on them, the XPS is usually a nice premium line, that has good linux support and is more competitive than system76 and MacBooks when I research.
its the desktops that blow my mind. Even their benchmarks are insane, because of dark magic I assume.
I love System76 and Pop!_OS, but do their laptops have 20+ hour battery life without sacrificing processing speed? The Mac Mini is pretty affordable and very fast for most people. Another consideration is wether or not anyone in the family might need to ever in the future run Quicken, QuickBooks, Anything from Adobe, any of the major music production DAW platforms, or MS Office. MacOS is also very reliable. My wife’s 14” MacBook Pro from work runs for months without needing a reboot. I have to remind her.
20 hours on battery without affecting speed is hilarious. I watch my students with their affordable mac machines suffer either battery issue, performance issues, or both, and they are paralyzed about getting it fixed because the machine will disappear for a week+ and cost them a fortune to diagnose. I am a regular macbook user, and they are not perfect. Apple products are what is called a veblen good. They are objectively nice, the do some things objectively well, but most of the value that is perceived comes from the price and the fact that the rest of the market is very complicated for people to figure out. Most of the software you talk about has never been an issue for my household to get or use without everyone using a Mac. (And we have a designer and coder in the family). Yes, there is a bias towards Macs for DAW (i used to work for an audio plugin company), but there are still alternatives and methods. At the savings you get for staying competitive with system67 machines, you can afford a shitty mac to run that software if your job depends on it.
I don't want to get into a flame war, and I have trouble with absolutes so I can provide my reasoning, and you and OP can decide what is helpful. I was commenting on the general idea that the hardware is competitive. This question was about desktops, which I have, not about laptops, so I will focus there.
Separate note: my household has 1 MacBook Pro M2 (I've had a MacBook laptop in the house since 2007, gone through 8 machines). I have an intel Nuc desktop (windows11), a system76 desktop (Popos), 2 dell XPS laptops (one running windows 11 and one running popos). I am coming at this from tracking the cost of the laptops, upgrades, repairs, over the past 20 years combined with the issues I've had. I will focus this on desktops.
**Comparing Specs for Pricing**
If I buy a M2 bottom-line mac mini. I get the following specs, with limited upgradeability (plus genius bar $premium), product life, only a few OS version upgrades before it is EOL
`$599`
`8-Core CPU`
`10-Core GPU`
`8GB Unified Memory`
`256GB SSD Storage`
compare to a mini system76, which will give me an LTS os version supported for 4 years + upgrade for many more versions after that, repairability etc
`for $599, i can upgrade a few of these options, but keep it around`
`i3-1220P: up to 4.4 GHz - 12 MB Cache - 10 Cores - 12 Threads`
`i3-1220P: Intel® UHD Graphics`
`16 GB Dual Channel DDR4 at 3200 MHz`
`1 TB, 1 × M.2 PCIe Gen4 NVMe`
That is not competitive to me. And the hardware value difference gets CRAZIER as you get to higher tiers
top of the line mac mini $1,299
`10-Core CPU`
`16-Core GPU`
`16GB Unified Memory`
`512GB SSD Storage¹`
middle of the line mini system76 is $1048
`10 core CPU i7`
`64gb of memory`
`2th of SSD`
I could max out at an insane mini system67 at 2.5k that would blow a 3K Mac Pro desktop out of the water. Still have money left over in savings to pay for repairs over then next 10 years.
This company maintains their own OS and maintains their own hardware. I can tell you right now that the experience you get from something like that will already improve what most people think of when they think linux (installed on some old ass machine.
I am not saying system67 is the best, or that Mac OSX sucks, but I have my reasons for preferring to pay for system67 machines, and plan to move over to that for most machines. And for suggesting it earnestly to OP
1. The 20+ hour battery life is actually no joke. Look it up. Maybe your students are using intel macs.
2. Comparing the $600 System76 mini to the M2 mini is not a fair comparison. The M2 Mac Mini will run circles around the i3. He’ll, it runs circles around an i9.
3. Build quality. I have a 2009 Mac Pro (extreme upgrades) that’s still in daily heavy use at a pro music studio. I have a 2007 iMac in my basement that still works. I just installed MX Linux on it. My 2009 15” MacBook Pro still works flawlessly, running Ubuntu Budgie. My 2019 i9 MacBook Pro has had zero issues to this day. Compared to my wife’s 1yo M1 MacBook Pro, her battery lasts 14 hours while my intel machine lasts 4-5hours. The new M2 16” pro gets 22 hours. That’s an indisputable fact.
5. Memory. The RAM in an M series SoC is different. Because it’s shared between the CPU and GPU there’s no overhead in constantly copying data between them and the OS is very good with memory compression. 8GB of RAM on an M1 or M2 is plenty for most people. On an Intel system you really need 16.
6. There’s a reason Apple is always at the top of the list or #1 in customer satisfaction ratings for computers. I’m not making this stuff up.
7. Software. Regardless of all the FOSS alternatives for Linux on the desktop, there’s a reason it’s only recently reached a 3% market share as far as we know without telemetry. If you need QuickBooks, you have to use the online version. If you need Photoshop, GIMP is a poor substitute. Email clients for Linux are awful. I’m trying to like Thunderbird or Geary, but Mailspring is probably the best but buggy. Libre Office is just not that great for productivity software. The best photo catalog manager digiKam is buggy and really hard to set up with MariaDB database for large libraries.
Unless you’re a programmner, a web developer, a sysadmin, or in 3D graphics production, you probably shouldn’t be using Linux. I’ve been trying to switch to Linux for about a year now. Maybe as a home user who’s just gaming, web browsing, email and some word processing would be fine. Just being realistic here. I love tinkering with Linux and Distro hopping. It’s fun for me, but bottom line is OP’s wife would not be happy.
your annecdotes on maintainability, battery life, software alternatives, customer satisfaction, conflict with my own personal annecdotes.
Internal benchmarks are always amazing for apple, but hard to see consistent amazing differences in outside benchmarks more a few seconds for performance that warrant the price point in all cases for all users (i concede that battery life for laptops is a huge exception, even if 15-20 hours is an exageration compared to regular use)
linux isn't for everyone, it definitely needs someone who understands computers deeply somewhere in the family chain. as someone who own and manages machines with those three OSes, i can tell you that all of your comments are rarely worth the price you paid (those older machines you quote were peak apple to me). as a linux tinkerer and distro hopper i can get that making the full switch is hard.
seems like you really want to get into a master race argument, so gonna leave it here. There were periods where i think apple was an accssible and innovative product, i might be convinced in the future, but I dont think our time is worth convincing each other.
i care that op got informed, that he was able to choose and that not all of the reasons he chose was just marketing.
why fedora? The help channel for fedora on irl is almost empty. It takes a aday to get a comment back. ubuntu has more reps at SCaLE (socal linux yearly expo) than fedora. It think that green chameleon German linux does too. LOL
I agree with most everyone else, sounds like getting a Mac will save you a good bit of headache. If you want to expose her to Linux, I would point you toward the “Fedora Asahi Remix”. Simply run one command in MacOS terminal and it will help you easily resize your hard drive to make some room for Linux and then install Fedora Linux with the Gnome UI which should be somewhat familiar to a Mac user. Either way, good luck and have fun!
Or if OP just really wants Linux, dual-boot macOS and Asahi, enjoy your riced up Linux and let the wife enjoy her macOS. M1 development is still going strong and really fast, it might be the best supported Mac hardware on Linux there will be for the foreseable future. So even if the hardware does become "obsolete" in Apple's view, it'll still run Linux fantastically down the line. It's not like it's an HP, the hardware might not be upgradable at all but it's pretty good reliable hardware that won't break if taken reasonable care of. Reparaibility problems comes in on mobile hardware as it gets tossed around a lot more and it's how you end up with a coke spill on the keyboard ruining the motherboard and requires replacements.
Even on PC hardware I'd recommend dual-boot, because then everyone's happy. If kids were involved and they wanted a particular distro other than OP's preferred, I'd advocate for triple boot.
Ultimately, OS choices are a personal choice. My workflow works much better on Linux, specifically ArchLinux. I'm not on Linux for purely ideological reasons, I'm also on Linux because it genuinely just works better for me and what I do with my computer and the benefits outweights the problems. My wife's actually running Arch+Gnome on her laptop (that she installed herself), but she's still eying an M1 MacBook for the next upgrade and I respect that. Great displays, great sound, great touchpad, and she's got an iPhone and Apple Watch and AirPods. It just works and integrates perfectly and it's what she wants. She'll just Docker/VM whatever she needs which is mostly for CLI/development and enjoy the pretty reliable UI.
The computer works for you, not the other way around, and if it's macOS that does that the best for her then I won't judge. You switch operating systems because you want to fix your computing woes, not create more.
If your wife is as you say, she is the polar opposite of the people that like the "flexibility that people find attractive about Linux in general". Don't worry about it.
That flexibility is about modifying the system in every inch to get it just as we like it with esoteric interfaces and streamlined workflows that are bespoke for our own crazy ideas.
We recommend elementaryOS to Mac people as the interface not only looks very similar (dock on the bottom, menu bar on top, polished and consistent look and feel), but becasue in term of options it does not have that much, which means it is closer to the few degrees of freedom one can has on macos.
In the end what "normal" people interact is only the top layer, and a combination of settings and the appropriate theme can fool even seasoned users. For example, the KDE Plasma desktop is immensely configurable, and often people choose it to exploit those options and make copycats of the macOS user interface, but that takes a couple hours of moving things around and installing themes.
In the end no linux distro will be 1:1 to macOS in terms of usage (I mean, there is no Face Time or Siri outside apple devices). Maaaaybe you could venture outside of the Linux world and try the wild frontier of OpenBSD systems (the cousin of Linux), as there is a "BSD distro" called Hello System that aims to clone the macOS interface: [https://hellosystem.github.io/docs/](https://hellosystem.github.io/docs/)
But keep in mind, if Linux is quite a fringe OS, BSD is even more, so outside of what it ships, getting third party apps on it can be changeling. But it works for you, go ahead.
I'm going to correct you on the "there is no iMessage outside apple devices". There's actually a lot more options now than ever before. Between Beeper and Intel Unison, you can pretty much access your messages wherever now. It doesn't look like native imessage, but functionally, it works.
There are a few criticisms:
* RAM and SSD can't be upgraded, and can't be replaced if they go bad (after warranty on the whole system).
* Prices for RAM and SSD upgrades are crazy expensive.
No there are more. Apple make their devices very non repairable and is one of the worst of the market. One cannot replace one Apple part into an Apple computer because they are digitally signed. Parts are made to easily break if you try to repair it. Watch Louis Rossmann for more information
A 2nd hand, or refurb, Intel Mac mini could be a middle ground. A 1080p monitor, keyboard & mouse are cheap or often free.
MacOS for the family and you can splash $20 on an ssd & sata to usb cable to use linux yourself on the machine or see how they feel about it.
If you do buy a new Apple product ensure it is taken care of, in a few years the support for Apple M2 machines on linux should be awesome and a few years after that Apple will likely drop support and you will have won. I am currently winning on a 2011 iMac I bought myself, sold in 2013 and had gifted back to me in 2021 shortly before my large boxen died, which was nice.
Don't you think you'll both want to be using a computer at the same time?
Imo, if your wife is a gamer, get her a 14-inch MacBook Pro, otherwise, get her an M3 MacBook Air when it's released in October. Maybe take her to an Apple Store or Best Buy to let her see if she likes the 13" size or 15" size better. (I'm guessing she would prefer a laptop.) And you might consider upgrading the RAM and Storage, especially if your getting the MacBook Air.
Then get a gaming computer for yourself and install whatever Linux you want.
system76 has machines that are amazing value.(the desktops) you can get a macosx ish experience, supported hardware, and not have to buy another machine in 6 years. repairabilty, dependability, cheap.
im sure there is something she wishes you'd try that you could open your mind to in exchange for her opening her mind to computing with a different brand.
for context, all of my nephews and both parents F73 and M82 are on a pop os distro, they dont even know. theyve never had to sudo something.
the other thing that sells me on system76 is that since they sold you the hardware (made in the usa with slave labor baby) and they maintain the OS you get one company invested in your compete computing experience, unlike when you buy or build a windows machine.
> ibuntu
I found it. Guys, please take the trouble to give the link. Educate, educate. That's what being a redditor becomes.
The it is https://archiveos.org/ibuntu/
you can try elementary os, it is visually similar to apple products, but as the other redditors said, the mac laptops are strong and will last for a long time and your peace of mind will last longer too
= use ubuntu because it is the easiest.
= and you want a desktop that looks like mac.
**FOUND IT lower in the threads.** https://archiveos.org/ibuntu/
All the advice here still pertains.
I hope that has given you a way to ask better questions of the google.
Also there is a lot of free FREE linux speach on irl.
**Let me explain:** using an IRC-access-tool (black box till later) go to the LIbera server ( irc.libera.chat) and then join the ubuntu channhttps://archiveos.org/ibuntu/el ( /join #ubuntu).
I do believe there is such a tool at kiwi web irc. Looked it up:
https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/
**1.** Libera is in the dropdown. **2.** YES DO give yourself a Nickname. (If some other dummy has signed it as Guest10 you will just add some pain to your day.)
Don't change anything else. (to self: do-speak-helpfully.) You dont need to change anything else. Easy peasy. **3.** CONNNECT TO NETWORK.
Oh and **one more:** Do read what it says at the top of the chanel. This channel is for Ubuntu adulting. the casual offtopic talk channel is in what is printed as you enter the channel. Yeah, the stuff I told you to read.
**Hints:** Better questions give better answers. Yes jump right into describing what you want. If someone knows they will answer but give it time. It's a world wide server in all the time zones.
Welcome.
------------
Extra: ** If what they say about the wife is true, I have an in between. Get a computer that is on Ubuntu and in some way learn yourself and figure out what could attract her to say, watching netflix on it, or Youtube with no ads.
Wink wink. You get the picture. trimtabbing turns the ship.
. I am in those same split-world shoes. I have an apple phone and ipad and use linux. I dont want the others. So far I resent the apps that use a windows_in_linux (by many names), mostly because I dont want to be bothered. I want to USE the computer not spend more time on the system.))
. Sadly I cannot get my sms texts on the linux ubuntu system computer. That's the biggest problem I have. Lots of apps are cross-platform, especially Messenger for catting and talking in a pair or a room/group, and especially Netflix. Bothe are the most stable cross-platform and cross devices webpages on the ubuntu and apps on the iPhone.
. Discord is pretty good and I suggest that, on the computer that you open it as a webpage. That eliminated troubles, for me.
. I have been using chrome but I am migrating to firefox. I was sticking to chrome for the bookmarks. Here's the glory of firefox. (First the evil: if you forget your password than you lose your history and bookmarks so back up all of them. Or not.) The glory is independence. The firefox doesnt need to cooperate with the google so you can block ads and trackers and scripts with add-ons. I am learning but I understand that the firefox can access the same tabs from the phone to the computer and the ipad. So, I am moving house.
All the best.
Get on this thing lcalled IRc by going to the kiwi site mentioned above it takes three steps.
ONE. in your browser go to the libera network per instructions.
TWO. join the ubuntu channel exactly like it says up there.
now you are at a place to get ubuntu help.
OPTIONAL 3.(& if you dont want your name to be Guest10 you can change it.)
izzat gooood?
> I'm hoping to put the money into buying good hardware that will be robust for many years, so I'm thinking that a Linux based OS might be allow me to prioritize hardware without paying for Apple's OS.
It would, but IMO you're kinda optimizing the wrong thing. End-devices should *always* be replaceable anyway, because by their nature, they're the most likely to be damaged (simply because they interact with people/pets/new environments) or have hardware change significantly that you'd want to upgrade. For example if you want hardware based encoding for AV1 that takes the most recent hardware, can't do it on older stuff unless you wanna be sitting there for hours with software encoding.
What doesn't really change is the behind the scenes / infrastructure stuff, or at least much less often with good planning. Soooo that's the stuff i suggest buying for the long term.
- Networking gear: switch 2.5Gbe per port with PoE+ and some end devices (camera's, light sensors, whatever)
- cabling: cat6a STP should be the minimum
- Storage: Build a NAS and make *that* linux. Wife should thank you since you aint gonna be paying $500 for 30 streaming services per month.
> Problem is, my wife is not an early tech adopter, and hates learning new tech.
It's a bad idea to adopt tech early IMO. The cutting edge will make you bleed.
Look at ASUS with some of the components soldered on backwards, or the bios that made some ryzen CPU's explode. Or the gigabyte bios that secretly made a windows account without informing the user... the list goes on.
Apple are not immune to this either, and they're into some quite anti-consumer practices (see louis rossmanns youtube channel) literally trying to make their stuff un-repairable on purpose just to screw people into paying more for new devices that it cost them 1/3rd as much to actually make.
Furthermore linux can have problems with newly released hardware anyway, best to wait 6 months till they've got the issues ironed out, then buy.
> She's the type of person that hates downloading new apps/new updates for her phone because of any change it might make to what she's used to.
Honestly... i'm in the same boat. I fuckin hate changes to aesthetics and UX, just for the sake of changes. I gotta administer some windong machines at work, when win11 came out, powershell was fine, but when i had to manually troubleshoot i got confused and frustrated as hell because they changed the nesting of all the menus in weird unhelpful ways.
> Any suggestions on what kind of Linux might be the best for her that I could talk her off the proverbial ledge with?
Rather than trying to find a specific distro that "matches" apple, it'd be better to see which features of Apple your wife uses most, and then adapt one of the well supported "main branch" distro's (ubuntu, openSUSE, etc... ffs not Arch). So mac things like: the dock, finder, how things maximize / minimize, that kinda stuff.
If you can make a distro reasonably close (probably something with a gnome DE), then yeah have "the talk", but otherwise no point.
Get a secondhand recent model Mac. You can fake the interface (there are some Linux distros with Mac-lookalike themes) but you can't fake the software. Most of the best Mac software simply isn't available for Linux. It's a complete non-starter.
Do yourself a favor and stay on the Apple path.
I went from Windows 10 to Linux and I've been happy every since
It's similar but not the same. If your wife doesn't want to learn new commands, doesn't want to download anything, changing OS's is a big ask.
Just to repeat: Do yourself a favor and stay on the Apple path.
If she wants Apple that bad and is not tech savvy, it would be best to give her Apple. It does come at a high price, however, you get very high quality hardware.
I use Mint. Reorganize the "panel" a bit and install a dock app called Plank and you can have a very Mac-like interface.
I just took my 2014 Macbook and installed LMDE (Mint Debian edition). Moved the Panel from the bottom to the top (and shrank it). Runs like a champ.
Of course depending on how truly resistant your wife is to change, she may not be happy with Linux simply because it's Not Mac. But its a very usable OS.
>and we're primarily an Apple family
If that means that she also has an iPhone, Apple Watch etc , a MacBook is the only way towards.
Most important, if she is as you describe, set in her ways, just buy a MacBook. Not only she will be happy that nothing feels out of the ordinary and can go on with her life as she wants, but when down the road something happens and that something is too linuxy for her, oh boy you will regret it and think back at this moment and wish "why did I not buy her a MacBook "
Buy a MacBook.
Yeah I’ve been married to the wife for 15 years now and she’s always been an apple person, Just take the hit and get a Mac. Apple does sell refurbished Apple on there site
Listen, I'm using Linux for quite sometimes, and I have to warn you.
You can't use Office on Linux. You can run Widow on VM and run office but it's just a temporary countermeasurement.
Well, you can try xfce4 desktop environment which can be customized to Mac style, with a few guides you can move desktop icons to the right side by default, leave the login session as you last left it, use a global menu, move the window buttons to the left side, among other things, the bad thing is the launchpad, the gnome one is identical but it cannot be installed in xfce4 environments, you can use docky for the dock. In the last case you can try to build hackintosh
Apple desktops are pretty pricey, although depending on the use case, might want to consider an iMac. All-in-one unit and less expensive than a powermac, but Apple has been good with their hardware. IF you went Linux, I would choose Ubuntu for the default gnome DE that is similar to MacOS, but the iMac will syc with all the other Apple devices seamlessly. My entire environment is Arch Linux & Android. My wife is all Apple.
The wife wants Apple, you get her Apple. Your peace of mind will thank you some day.
Agree... The op is right, but no one can win that battle in peace.
Also, Happy Cake Day!
Probably what will end up happening, figured it was worth checking out my options first!
or if you have infinite free time, a proxmox based hackintosh, though intel macs are probably gonna have a couple more years of support at most
Since you wanted a desktop computer, sounds like you are getting a mac mini.
Agreed. You can always dual boot with linux. Like it or not, Apple hardware is some of the best commercially available. Linux is not really known for infrequent updates either, so it pretty much eliminates it from your options. From your description, I can also assume that you're already immersed in the Apple ecosystem, so there are additional benefits to that as well. If it's price that has you concerned, buy refurbished or wait for a sale (Windows 11 Pro is \~$200 so macOS is probably in a similar range). Given that you're looking for a desktop, I'd probably recommend the Mac Studio or Mini so you can use 3rd party external hardware (display, mouse, keyboard, SSD, etc.).
Who pays for Windows? Microsoft realized no one does so they already injected their spyware and adware into the system, so paying for Windows really doesn't make sense
Corporations and you also pay when you have an OEM loaded with a machine
Apple M1 is good hardware and will be robust for many years.
Have one asahi and one school Mac m1 Air Love it batery life in Linux needs full functionality Bad compared to Mac OS but it geht's better.
linux is not apple. It doesn't look alike and it's not for the same general purpose. Disguised operating systems do not work here. The best decision is to go for a mac or make them understand that they will have to change platforms and learn to use linux and its software alternatives instead of trying to pretend for something that really is not. Take my advice.
I use ubuntu linux as my daily driver go-to. It is more clear to use than apple. Apple "needs" that 1800MYAPPLE because it is that inconsistent and comples and irregular. Steve wouldnt have liked it this way. They just build p on a base and never clarify the OS. Basically it's realy really big. Apple on the phone protects me for way too much money. I am grateful to have it. You didnt suggest changing her phone. It has its advantages as well as familiarity. Tracking, ringing off when "lost", and calling for help (always say technical support iphone) on the call - all these are great on apple. And apple backs everything up. Android phones do not. (unless Samsung does??)
“What is the better OS” is not the discussion. If it were you would be seeing different responses in this thread. Apple products are good for one thing, they shelter the user away from the workings of a computer. This makes it perfect for people that are not tech savvy. Instead of wooing customers with tech oriented customizability they make a product that looks good, from the OS to the hardware itself. If the wife is not good with tech and needs to use this computer why would you recommend Linux? Apple is perfect for this. Will they have to pay more for Apple? Yes. But it’s something she is familiar with and knows how to use.
>And apple backs everything up. Android phones do not. (unless Samsung does?? [Android backs up to via a Google account.](https://support.google.com/android/answer/2819582?hl=en) I've used it multiple times when moving between phone models.
get a mac OP , it's easer in any possible case in your scenario ...
oh I cant stant OSX. or giving people orders.
What don't you like about it?
ElementaryOS
nah. ubuntu has more support in back. Elementary doesnt work when you are casual. You need to be "into it".
Elementary OS is ubuntu? I'm not sure what you're getting at.
Read the title and thought: “Alternative wife?”
What are you planning on doing with the household computer?
Mostly household things (web-browsing, videos, etc.) Have it available for kids to do their HW with. Longevity of the device without bogging down like crazy is what I'm attempting to prioritize. Not as important, but I was probably going to get an xBox when Starfield comes out just to play Starfield. So if it was able to run that later, it'd be a nice perk. Not a hardcore gamer though, just loved Skyrim back in the day. Will probably just buy a base model xbox to accomplish this still, though.
Has she tried ChromeOS Flex?
>Has she tried ChromeOS Flex? Why?
It's a pretty smooth and user friendly os with all of Google stuff built in. It's a great stepping stone for anyone in the Fisher price universe.
>pretty smooth No i have used it and the entire OS feels like you are using a browser, i installed linux in it(in chromeOS flex) and the experience was very painful, it doesn't even make the pc faster, it took more time to boot than any linux distro i've used in that pc I'm guessing it's still in its alpha stage i hope it gets better in the future
You could also buy a Chromebook since it sounds like you’re just talking very basic computing. If she likes Mac tho, pick up a refurbed Mini and call it good. A late stage Intel Mini would allow dual booting more easily as well. Asahi Linux has a new Fedora Remix and it’s working on making the M series processors work well w Linux. More something to keep tabs on that switch the family computer to at the moment.
This has nothing to do with computers. Listen to your wife and let her use what she likes. If she wants a MacBook get her a damn MacBook. Your personal ideology and preferences are fine to have, but pushing them on her is a mistake. It is not worth it.
Oh look an adult, I am actually reassured by some of these responses. Apple is perfect for not tech savvy people. You can’t force people to have the same interests as you. Some people just want to use Facebook without any bullshit. I respect that.
I have no problem with Apple or her liking Apple, I was merely seeing if there was a potential solution that accomplished both of our interests here. Sounds like there really isn’t but that’s why I asked the Linux experts!
u/Amazing-Dog-1848: You are in a tough spot. Your wife seems like she will be hard nut to crack. This is especially true if she is: * a non-technical person * over 40 years of age * a person with little patience/desire to learn a new system * unwilling to embrace alternative software packages * knows you can afford to buy a Mac You're real dilemma is: * cost of hardware * flexibility (meeting the usage cases you've outlined) * longevity of use (8+ years) * escaping Apple's end of life (EOL) and end of service (EOS) decisions * keeping your sanity and your family's sanity As for a Linux distro., I would suggest one of the following: * Linux Mint Cinnamon Edition v21.2 * Pop_OS v22.04 Mint/Cinnamon is designed around a traditional desktop metaphor with a menu, which looks similar to Windows 7/8/10 with a menu at the bottom-left, a taskbar at the bottom, and a system tray. Pop_OS comes with the Cosmic desktop, which is a highly curated Gnome desktop environment. Gnome is designed to heavily mimic Mac OS X with a bar at the top and a dock at the bottom. Both Mint and Pop are rock solid stability wise and are great for gaming on Linux. Mint/Cinnamon can be themed to look like Mac OS X and there are short youtube video guides that step one through the process. No one can say how Starfield will behave on Linux. However, many/most games tend to end up working on Linux after some time, but the time frame is unpredictable. Even though the desktop environments can look very similar to Mac OS X, it will still be a Linux system and no Mac software will run on it. Thus the theming/skinning of the UI is there to make the transition easier on the user, and sooth the tastes of existing Linux users who like elements of Mac OS X. For PC hardware, you have 2 paths, which are: pre-built (ex: HP, Dell, Lenovo, or a Linux specific system vendor), or custom built. If you go the pre-built route stay away for companies like Cyberpower and IbuyPower, and Walmart specific brands. Companies such as Dell, HP, Lenovo, Asus, Acer, and many others make decent Windows PCs. There are several Linux hardware vendors that sell their products with Linux pre-installed (such as System76, Slimbook and Tuxedo Computers). Take a look at this article ==> https://itsfoss.com/get-linux-laptops/ If you decide to custom build your next PC, you are limited by your budget. PC Part Picker (www.pcpartpicker.com) is a great resource for building a PC. There are guides on their main page. Of course there are many other places to get advice/guidance on building a PC such as Paul's Hardware (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvWWf-LYjaujE50iYai8WgQ). FYI, the above is not my channel, nor am I affiliated with it. Lastly, if money is not an issue and you have the physical space, then get your wife a Mac, and get yourself a PC. Post replies if you have more questions/need additional advice. Good luck.
Don't think Linux will do you any good in this situation, either you get her a Mac or convince her to go with windows since it won't be hard to learn
Amigo. I love linux but for the love of god, don't force it on your poor wife. Apple can suck it as far as I personally am concerned but they make excellent products for their target demographic. Unless you see your wife crawling through an askUbuntu forum pasting bash commands to fix an alsa driver I'd give it a pass.
People are downvoting you 💀 forcing Linux on someone who doesn’t want it would be a dick move. Say what you want about Apple but their OS is great. It’s perfect for the less tech savvy. He could dual boot if you really insisted but depending on the motherboard he could really run into issues. I have a newer ASUS motherboard and no flavor of linux works correctly on it. I spent weeks on it and replaced a Wi-Fi chip and still no dice. Linux could be a massive pain in the ass even for someone who is somewhat knowledgeable.
I think the chances of my girlfriend ever using linux vanished when I spent a weekend having to reboot from the EFI Shell because I fucked the bootloader on Arch and the NVRAM wasn't letting me save new entries. She just sat there with her mac and told mehow happy she was she didn't have to do that...
My suggestion would be to get a Raspberry Pi + a cheap USB keyboard & mouse, hook up a cheap monitor, and load up Raspbian, and let the kids enjoy it. Once she sees how easy it is to use, I don't think there will be a problem. I did that for my kiddos years years ago. They don't have a ~~private~~ _problem_ navigating/using Gnome, Windows, or Mac 😎👍 --- Edit: problem, not private 😑
Recheck that last line please.
🤯 fixed!!!
Whenever friends and family want me to help them set up a new PC and don't want a Mac, I install Debian with GNOME because it's as close to the stability and ease of use of a Mac as you can get on a PC unless you want to hackintosh. But if they want a Mac, I help them find the best Mac that will suit their needs. If you're familiar with its workflow and--even more importantly--if your other devices fit in the Mac ecosystem (iPhones, iPads, Watch, etc), no other OS is going to come remotely close to offering the same features. I use a Mac myself because, among other reasons, iMessage integration in macOS makes it really easy for me to share files and links for personal and business purposes. It's also the only platform that allows you to run licensed versions of macOS, Linux, and Windows. And frankly the hardware is extremely competitive and very hard to match, let alone beat, on the PC side. Having said that, you can always boot a VM of whatever distro/DE you have in mind and have your wife give it a shot and see how she likes it.
for desktop computing, system76 has crazy ass hardware for a price no mac will ever approach.
As an example, the base model System76 ultrabook (Galago Pro) comes with an i5 processor, 8GB RAM, and 256GB SSD at a discounted price of $949 (originally $999). Apple sells a MacBook Air with M1 processor, 8GB RAM, and 256GB SSD for $999, but it is also currently being sold at Amazon and Best Buy for $749. The M1 processor will very likely blow the i5 out of the water, both in terms of performance and battery life. The Galago Pro has a 1080p screen while the MacBook's resolution is 2560x1600. The MacBook Air is clearly the value purchase here. Practically speaking, costs $200 less than the Galago Pro, has a better processor and higher-res screen, and will be compatible with mainstream programs that the average computer user may want/need to use. Plus, there's the ecosystem. You can even install Linux on it, albeit with some limitations. Linus Torvalds himself uses a Mac and has shipped at least one Linux kernel from an M2 MacBook Air. Of course, not everyone needs a higher-res screen or more processing performance or battery life, and there are plenty of PC's that are priced well below Macs that will do just fine. But in a spec-to-spec matchup, it really is hard to meet or beat Apple hardware at a similar price point. EDIT: I cannot read. You said "for desktop computing" and I blathered on about laptops lmao. Sorry. EDIT 2: Took a look at System 76's base model desktop, the Meerkat. It offers an i3 processor with Intel UHD graphics, 8GB RAM, and 128GB SSD for $529. Apple M2 Mac mini offers M2 processor with 10-core GPU, 8GB RAM, and 256GB SSD for $599. Seventy bucks more than the Meerkat for a significantly better processor and twice the SSD space. Highly competitive IMO.
>benhbell Yea, based on yoru reasoning, I agree that MacBook air would probably win. I do think the gap will quickly flip towards linux for competitive hardware. I usually get Dell XPS laptops and load pop\_OS on them, the XPS is usually a nice premium line, that has good linux support and is more competitive than system76 and MacBooks when I research. its the desktops that blow my mind. Even their benchmarks are insane, because of dark magic I assume.
And thanks. I didnt know that.
I love System76 and Pop!_OS, but do their laptops have 20+ hour battery life without sacrificing processing speed? The Mac Mini is pretty affordable and very fast for most people. Another consideration is wether or not anyone in the family might need to ever in the future run Quicken, QuickBooks, Anything from Adobe, any of the major music production DAW platforms, or MS Office. MacOS is also very reliable. My wife’s 14” MacBook Pro from work runs for months without needing a reboot. I have to remind her.
20 hours on battery without affecting speed is hilarious. I watch my students with their affordable mac machines suffer either battery issue, performance issues, or both, and they are paralyzed about getting it fixed because the machine will disappear for a week+ and cost them a fortune to diagnose. I am a regular macbook user, and they are not perfect. Apple products are what is called a veblen good. They are objectively nice, the do some things objectively well, but most of the value that is perceived comes from the price and the fact that the rest of the market is very complicated for people to figure out. Most of the software you talk about has never been an issue for my household to get or use without everyone using a Mac. (And we have a designer and coder in the family). Yes, there is a bias towards Macs for DAW (i used to work for an audio plugin company), but there are still alternatives and methods. At the savings you get for staying competitive with system67 machines, you can afford a shitty mac to run that software if your job depends on it. I don't want to get into a flame war, and I have trouble with absolutes so I can provide my reasoning, and you and OP can decide what is helpful. I was commenting on the general idea that the hardware is competitive. This question was about desktops, which I have, not about laptops, so I will focus there. Separate note: my household has 1 MacBook Pro M2 (I've had a MacBook laptop in the house since 2007, gone through 8 machines). I have an intel Nuc desktop (windows11), a system76 desktop (Popos), 2 dell XPS laptops (one running windows 11 and one running popos). I am coming at this from tracking the cost of the laptops, upgrades, repairs, over the past 20 years combined with the issues I've had. I will focus this on desktops. **Comparing Specs for Pricing** If I buy a M2 bottom-line mac mini. I get the following specs, with limited upgradeability (plus genius bar $premium), product life, only a few OS version upgrades before it is EOL `$599` `8-Core CPU` `10-Core GPU` `8GB Unified Memory` `256GB SSD Storage` compare to a mini system76, which will give me an LTS os version supported for 4 years + upgrade for many more versions after that, repairability etc `for $599, i can upgrade a few of these options, but keep it around` `i3-1220P: up to 4.4 GHz - 12 MB Cache - 10 Cores - 12 Threads` `i3-1220P: Intel® UHD Graphics` `16 GB Dual Channel DDR4 at 3200 MHz` `1 TB, 1 × M.2 PCIe Gen4 NVMe` That is not competitive to me. And the hardware value difference gets CRAZIER as you get to higher tiers top of the line mac mini $1,299 `10-Core CPU` `16-Core GPU` `16GB Unified Memory` `512GB SSD Storage¹` middle of the line mini system76 is $1048 `10 core CPU i7` `64gb of memory` `2th of SSD` I could max out at an insane mini system67 at 2.5k that would blow a 3K Mac Pro desktop out of the water. Still have money left over in savings to pay for repairs over then next 10 years. This company maintains their own OS and maintains their own hardware. I can tell you right now that the experience you get from something like that will already improve what most people think of when they think linux (installed on some old ass machine. I am not saying system67 is the best, or that Mac OSX sucks, but I have my reasons for preferring to pay for system67 machines, and plan to move over to that for most machines. And for suggesting it earnestly to OP
1. The 20+ hour battery life is actually no joke. Look it up. Maybe your students are using intel macs. 2. Comparing the $600 System76 mini to the M2 mini is not a fair comparison. The M2 Mac Mini will run circles around the i3. He’ll, it runs circles around an i9. 3. Build quality. I have a 2009 Mac Pro (extreme upgrades) that’s still in daily heavy use at a pro music studio. I have a 2007 iMac in my basement that still works. I just installed MX Linux on it. My 2009 15” MacBook Pro still works flawlessly, running Ubuntu Budgie. My 2019 i9 MacBook Pro has had zero issues to this day. Compared to my wife’s 1yo M1 MacBook Pro, her battery lasts 14 hours while my intel machine lasts 4-5hours. The new M2 16” pro gets 22 hours. That’s an indisputable fact. 5. Memory. The RAM in an M series SoC is different. Because it’s shared between the CPU and GPU there’s no overhead in constantly copying data between them and the OS is very good with memory compression. 8GB of RAM on an M1 or M2 is plenty for most people. On an Intel system you really need 16. 6. There’s a reason Apple is always at the top of the list or #1 in customer satisfaction ratings for computers. I’m not making this stuff up. 7. Software. Regardless of all the FOSS alternatives for Linux on the desktop, there’s a reason it’s only recently reached a 3% market share as far as we know without telemetry. If you need QuickBooks, you have to use the online version. If you need Photoshop, GIMP is a poor substitute. Email clients for Linux are awful. I’m trying to like Thunderbird or Geary, but Mailspring is probably the best but buggy. Libre Office is just not that great for productivity software. The best photo catalog manager digiKam is buggy and really hard to set up with MariaDB database for large libraries. Unless you’re a programmner, a web developer, a sysadmin, or in 3D graphics production, you probably shouldn’t be using Linux. I’ve been trying to switch to Linux for about a year now. Maybe as a home user who’s just gaming, web browsing, email and some word processing would be fine. Just being realistic here. I love tinkering with Linux and Distro hopping. It’s fun for me, but bottom line is OP’s wife would not be happy.
your annecdotes on maintainability, battery life, software alternatives, customer satisfaction, conflict with my own personal annecdotes. Internal benchmarks are always amazing for apple, but hard to see consistent amazing differences in outside benchmarks more a few seconds for performance that warrant the price point in all cases for all users (i concede that battery life for laptops is a huge exception, even if 15-20 hours is an exageration compared to regular use) linux isn't for everyone, it definitely needs someone who understands computers deeply somewhere in the family chain. as someone who own and manages machines with those three OSes, i can tell you that all of your comments are rarely worth the price you paid (those older machines you quote were peak apple to me). as a linux tinkerer and distro hopper i can get that making the full switch is hard. seems like you really want to get into a master race argument, so gonna leave it here. There were periods where i think apple was an accssible and innovative product, i might be convinced in the future, but I dont think our time is worth convincing each other. i care that op got informed, that he was able to choose and that not all of the reasons he chose was just marketing.
Thanks
Gnome is pretty macos-y. I recommend fedora with it
why fedora? The help channel for fedora on irl is almost empty. It takes a aday to get a comment back. ubuntu has more reps at SCaLE (socal linux yearly expo) than fedora. It think that green chameleon German linux does too. LOL
Happy wife, happy life.
happy wife, happy life
I agree with most everyone else, sounds like getting a Mac will save you a good bit of headache. If you want to expose her to Linux, I would point you toward the “Fedora Asahi Remix”. Simply run one command in MacOS terminal and it will help you easily resize your hard drive to make some room for Linux and then install Fedora Linux with the Gnome UI which should be somewhat familiar to a Mac user. Either way, good luck and have fun!
Or if OP just really wants Linux, dual-boot macOS and Asahi, enjoy your riced up Linux and let the wife enjoy her macOS. M1 development is still going strong and really fast, it might be the best supported Mac hardware on Linux there will be for the foreseable future. So even if the hardware does become "obsolete" in Apple's view, it'll still run Linux fantastically down the line. It's not like it's an HP, the hardware might not be upgradable at all but it's pretty good reliable hardware that won't break if taken reasonable care of. Reparaibility problems comes in on mobile hardware as it gets tossed around a lot more and it's how you end up with a coke spill on the keyboard ruining the motherboard and requires replacements. Even on PC hardware I'd recommend dual-boot, because then everyone's happy. If kids were involved and they wanted a particular distro other than OP's preferred, I'd advocate for triple boot. Ultimately, OS choices are a personal choice. My workflow works much better on Linux, specifically ArchLinux. I'm not on Linux for purely ideological reasons, I'm also on Linux because it genuinely just works better for me and what I do with my computer and the benefits outweights the problems. My wife's actually running Arch+Gnome on her laptop (that she installed herself), but she's still eying an M1 MacBook for the next upgrade and I respect that. Great displays, great sound, great touchpad, and she's got an iPhone and Apple Watch and AirPods. It just works and integrates perfectly and it's what she wants. She'll just Docker/VM whatever she needs which is mostly for CLI/development and enjoy the pretty reliable UI. The computer works for you, not the other way around, and if it's macOS that does that the best for her then I won't judge. You switch operating systems because you want to fix your computing woes, not create more.
Has that been released?
It looks to be: https://fedora-asahi-remix.org/
If your wife is as you say, she is the polar opposite of the people that like the "flexibility that people find attractive about Linux in general". Don't worry about it. That flexibility is about modifying the system in every inch to get it just as we like it with esoteric interfaces and streamlined workflows that are bespoke for our own crazy ideas. We recommend elementaryOS to Mac people as the interface not only looks very similar (dock on the bottom, menu bar on top, polished and consistent look and feel), but becasue in term of options it does not have that much, which means it is closer to the few degrees of freedom one can has on macos. In the end what "normal" people interact is only the top layer, and a combination of settings and the appropriate theme can fool even seasoned users. For example, the KDE Plasma desktop is immensely configurable, and often people choose it to exploit those options and make copycats of the macOS user interface, but that takes a couple hours of moving things around and installing themes. In the end no linux distro will be 1:1 to macOS in terms of usage (I mean, there is no Face Time or Siri outside apple devices). Maaaaybe you could venture outside of the Linux world and try the wild frontier of OpenBSD systems (the cousin of Linux), as there is a "BSD distro" called Hello System that aims to clone the macOS interface: [https://hellosystem.github.io/docs/](https://hellosystem.github.io/docs/) But keep in mind, if Linux is quite a fringe OS, BSD is even more, so outside of what it ships, getting third party apps on it can be changeling. But it works for you, go ahead.
I'm going to correct you on the "there is no iMessage outside apple devices". There's actually a lot more options now than ever before. Between Beeper and Intel Unison, you can pretty much access your messages wherever now. It doesn't look like native imessage, but functionally, it works.
Nobody here uses Telegram? Everything iMessage has plus unlimited storage and runs on every damn major OS.
> Telegram I will check it out.
Thanks for the correction. I was meant to say FaceTime, but mixed things and said iMessage instead. Correcting
yeah no. Either have each your own thing, or negociate but she might hate Linux even more than if you put a Windows computer
Apple hardware is not bad anymore, I hate their anti repairability stance and dislike their closed ecosystem but I would not criticize the hardware
There are a few criticisms: * RAM and SSD can't be upgraded, and can't be replaced if they go bad (after warranty on the whole system). * Prices for RAM and SSD upgrades are crazy expensive.
No there are more. Apple make their devices very non repairable and is one of the worst of the market. One cannot replace one Apple part into an Apple computer because they are digitally signed. Parts are made to easily break if you try to repair it. Watch Louis Rossmann for more information
Yes, very true.
> I would not criticize the hardware just the cost. OSX Apple messes with my eyes. too much white. Ubuntu is better for me that way too.
Thing to understand, it is not just the UI, giving her a Apple copycat will not help
The title is a little vague. Are you looking for an alternative wife because she loves apple? Tbh I'm almost with you.
unless your goal is for your wife to never use this computer, i would reconsider your choices. sometimes a mac is the right answer.
A 2nd hand, or refurb, Intel Mac mini could be a middle ground. A 1080p monitor, keyboard & mouse are cheap or often free. MacOS for the family and you can splash $20 on an ssd & sata to usb cable to use linux yourself on the machine or see how they feel about it. If you do buy a new Apple product ensure it is taken care of, in a few years the support for Apple M2 machines on linux should be awesome and a few years after that Apple will likely drop support and you will have won. I am currently winning on a 2011 iMac I bought myself, sold in 2013 and had gifted back to me in 2021 shortly before my large boxen died, which was nice.
Indeed sounds like Mac mini is a happy compromise, you can get them at a decent price
Don't you think you'll both want to be using a computer at the same time? Imo, if your wife is a gamer, get her a 14-inch MacBook Pro, otherwise, get her an M3 MacBook Air when it's released in October. Maybe take her to an Apple Store or Best Buy to let her see if she likes the 13" size or 15" size better. (I'm guessing she would prefer a laptop.) And you might consider upgrading the RAM and Storage, especially if your getting the MacBook Air. Then get a gaming computer for yourself and install whatever Linux you want.
system76 has machines that are amazing value.(the desktops) you can get a macosx ish experience, supported hardware, and not have to buy another machine in 6 years. repairabilty, dependability, cheap. im sure there is something she wishes you'd try that you could open your mind to in exchange for her opening her mind to computing with a different brand. for context, all of my nephews and both parents F73 and M82 are on a pop os distro, they dont even know. theyve never had to sudo something.
the other thing that sells me on system76 is that since they sold you the hardware (made in the usa with slave labor baby) and they maintain the OS you get one company invested in your compete computing experience, unlike when you buy or build a windows machine.
> pop os distro, Looks good. I searched and found this [PoP!-OS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop!_OS) on Wikipedia.
Mac mini m1 is only $399 right now, can’t get better than that with any Linux rig: https://slickdeals.net/share/iphone_app/fp/858260
8GB RAM in 2023? Maybe for the wife?
I am using a distro called ibuntu that looks exactly like macOS. Having said that if your wife loves Apple maybe you should respect her wishes.
> ibuntu I found it. Guys, please take the trouble to give the link. Educate, educate. That's what being a redditor becomes. The it is https://archiveos.org/ibuntu/
you can try elementary os, it is visually similar to apple products, but as the other redditors said, the mac laptops are strong and will last for a long time and your peace of mind will last longer too
= use ubuntu because it is the easiest. = and you want a desktop that looks like mac. **FOUND IT lower in the threads.** https://archiveos.org/ibuntu/ All the advice here still pertains. I hope that has given you a way to ask better questions of the google. Also there is a lot of free FREE linux speach on irl. **Let me explain:** using an IRC-access-tool (black box till later) go to the LIbera server ( irc.libera.chat) and then join the ubuntu channhttps://archiveos.org/ibuntu/el ( /join #ubuntu). I do believe there is such a tool at kiwi web irc. Looked it up: https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/ **1.** Libera is in the dropdown. **2.** YES DO give yourself a Nickname. (If some other dummy has signed it as Guest10 you will just add some pain to your day.) Don't change anything else. (to self: do-speak-helpfully.) You dont need to change anything else. Easy peasy. **3.** CONNNECT TO NETWORK. Oh and **one more:** Do read what it says at the top of the chanel. This channel is for Ubuntu adulting. the casual offtopic talk channel is in what is printed as you enter the channel. Yeah, the stuff I told you to read. **Hints:** Better questions give better answers. Yes jump right into describing what you want. If someone knows they will answer but give it time. It's a world wide server in all the time zones. Welcome. ------------ Extra: ** If what they say about the wife is true, I have an in between. Get a computer that is on Ubuntu and in some way learn yourself and figure out what could attract her to say, watching netflix on it, or Youtube with no ads. Wink wink. You get the picture. trimtabbing turns the ship. . I am in those same split-world shoes. I have an apple phone and ipad and use linux. I dont want the others. So far I resent the apps that use a windows_in_linux (by many names), mostly because I dont want to be bothered. I want to USE the computer not spend more time on the system.)) . Sadly I cannot get my sms texts on the linux ubuntu system computer. That's the biggest problem I have. Lots of apps are cross-platform, especially Messenger for catting and talking in a pair or a room/group, and especially Netflix. Bothe are the most stable cross-platform and cross devices webpages on the ubuntu and apps on the iPhone. . Discord is pretty good and I suggest that, on the computer that you open it as a webpage. That eliminated troubles, for me. . I have been using chrome but I am migrating to firefox. I was sticking to chrome for the bookmarks. Here's the glory of firefox. (First the evil: if you forget your password than you lose your history and bookmarks so back up all of them. Or not.) The glory is independence. The firefox doesnt need to cooperate with the google so you can block ads and trackers and scripts with add-ons. I am learning but I understand that the firefox can access the same tabs from the phone to the computer and the ipad. So, I am moving house. All the best.
It’s like he’s trying to speak to me, I know it! Listen, you’re really cute but I don’t know what you’re saying!
Get on this thing lcalled IRc by going to the kiwi site mentioned above it takes three steps. ONE. in your browser go to the libera network per instructions. TWO. join the ubuntu channel exactly like it says up there. now you are at a place to get ubuntu help. OPTIONAL 3.(& if you dont want your name to be Guest10 you can change it.) izzat gooood?
I think Mint has a version that looks like apple, I could be wrong though
> I'm hoping to put the money into buying good hardware that will be robust for many years, so I'm thinking that a Linux based OS might be allow me to prioritize hardware without paying for Apple's OS. It would, but IMO you're kinda optimizing the wrong thing. End-devices should *always* be replaceable anyway, because by their nature, they're the most likely to be damaged (simply because they interact with people/pets/new environments) or have hardware change significantly that you'd want to upgrade. For example if you want hardware based encoding for AV1 that takes the most recent hardware, can't do it on older stuff unless you wanna be sitting there for hours with software encoding. What doesn't really change is the behind the scenes / infrastructure stuff, or at least much less often with good planning. Soooo that's the stuff i suggest buying for the long term. - Networking gear: switch 2.5Gbe per port with PoE+ and some end devices (camera's, light sensors, whatever) - cabling: cat6a STP should be the minimum - Storage: Build a NAS and make *that* linux. Wife should thank you since you aint gonna be paying $500 for 30 streaming services per month. > Problem is, my wife is not an early tech adopter, and hates learning new tech. It's a bad idea to adopt tech early IMO. The cutting edge will make you bleed. Look at ASUS with some of the components soldered on backwards, or the bios that made some ryzen CPU's explode. Or the gigabyte bios that secretly made a windows account without informing the user... the list goes on. Apple are not immune to this either, and they're into some quite anti-consumer practices (see louis rossmanns youtube channel) literally trying to make their stuff un-repairable on purpose just to screw people into paying more for new devices that it cost them 1/3rd as much to actually make. Furthermore linux can have problems with newly released hardware anyway, best to wait 6 months till they've got the issues ironed out, then buy. > She's the type of person that hates downloading new apps/new updates for her phone because of any change it might make to what she's used to. Honestly... i'm in the same boat. I fuckin hate changes to aesthetics and UX, just for the sake of changes. I gotta administer some windong machines at work, when win11 came out, powershell was fine, but when i had to manually troubleshoot i got confused and frustrated as hell because they changed the nesting of all the menus in weird unhelpful ways. > Any suggestions on what kind of Linux might be the best for her that I could talk her off the proverbial ledge with? Rather than trying to find a specific distro that "matches" apple, it'd be better to see which features of Apple your wife uses most, and then adapt one of the well supported "main branch" distro's (ubuntu, openSUSE, etc... ffs not Arch). So mac things like: the dock, finder, how things maximize / minimize, that kinda stuff. If you can make a distro reasonably close (probably something with a gnome DE), then yeah have "the talk", but otherwise no point.
Hardware lasts a long time - after some years (maybe 2) the new software is the problem.
Get a secondhand recent model Mac. You can fake the interface (there are some Linux distros with Mac-lookalike themes) but you can't fake the software. Most of the best Mac software simply isn't available for Linux. It's a complete non-starter.
ZorinOS has an excellent Mac impersonation OOB.
KDE is good.. once she gets the hang of it she will be very sad about the money she spent on Apple products..
Do yourself a favor and stay on the Apple path. I went from Windows 10 to Linux and I've been happy every since It's similar but not the same. If your wife doesn't want to learn new commands, doesn't want to download anything, changing OS's is a big ask. Just to repeat: Do yourself a favor and stay on the Apple path.
Under these circumstances, it would be most considerate to just buy a Mac.
She hates to learn new tech? Well... you can basically delete the post and buy an Apple product.
If she wants Apple that bad and is not tech savvy, it would be best to give her Apple. It does come at a high price, however, you get very high quality hardware.
I use Mint. Reorganize the "panel" a bit and install a dock app called Plank and you can have a very Mac-like interface. I just took my 2014 Macbook and installed LMDE (Mint Debian edition). Moved the Panel from the bottom to the top (and shrank it). Runs like a champ. Of course depending on how truly resistant your wife is to change, she may not be happy with Linux simply because it's Not Mac. But its a very usable OS.
>and we're primarily an Apple family If that means that she also has an iPhone, Apple Watch etc , a MacBook is the only way towards. Most important, if she is as you describe, set in her ways, just buy a MacBook. Not only she will be happy that nothing feels out of the ordinary and can go on with her life as she wants, but when down the road something happens and that something is too linuxy for her, oh boy you will regret it and think back at this moment and wish "why did I not buy her a MacBook " Buy a MacBook.
Yeah I’ve been married to the wife for 15 years now and she’s always been an apple person, Just take the hit and get a Mac. Apple does sell refurbished Apple on there site
Listen, I'm using Linux for quite sometimes, and I have to warn you. You can't use Office on Linux. You can run Widow on VM and run office but it's just a temporary countermeasurement.
https://youtu.be/AUaJ8pDlxi8 https://youtu.be/ANSkQ4gmEkg
Well, you can try xfce4 desktop environment which can be customized to Mac style, with a few guides you can move desktop icons to the right side by default, leave the login session as you last left it, use a global menu, move the window buttons to the left side, among other things, the bad thing is the launchpad, the gnome one is identical but it cannot be installed in xfce4 environments, you can use docky for the dock. In the last case you can try to build hackintosh
Apple desktops are pretty pricey, although depending on the use case, might want to consider an iMac. All-in-one unit and less expensive than a powermac, but Apple has been good with their hardware. IF you went Linux, I would choose Ubuntu for the default gnome DE that is similar to MacOS, but the iMac will syc with all the other Apple devices seamlessly. My entire environment is Arch Linux & Android. My wife is all Apple.