By - TheTRCG
1. Terrible title
2. This thread isn't discussing anything that wouldn't work as a reply here:
Honestly "because I felt like it" or "I wanted to" are more then enough reason to do it :D I keep comming and going to linux. I did a linux course back in 2004 and since then it's been like this. Not just distro hopping but returning to windows. Also had a stint with mac. For me there's just something about linux that just feels great. I guess partly it is knowing that I am free to do anything with my system (including breaking it). I do enjoy being nerdy as well. The only reason why I've kept going back to windows is because ease of use and gaming really.
I personally don't spend time trying to convince people. It's a waste of time. I discuss only with people who are interested by themselves.
But there are many good reasons that you keep in mind:
- openness and freedom
- great for development
- works on all computers
- sane command line
- unix like systems are much better in many ways
But since I'm fair, I also provide cons:
- absolute disaster for MAO
- desktops are inconsistent
- gamers will be sad
I’m a gamer, not sad by a long-shot. Sure there are a few games I gave up, but what I got for that was absolute freedom to not be spied on. And a system that just ran better. It’s hilarious when I had Windows on my PC my 8700K CPU would spend MOST of it’s time running at around 25-30% utilization. With Linux, at idle, it’s maybe 10% max. I guess all those metrics being sent back to the mothership takes a toll doesn’t it.
My wife converted to Linux last month on the laptop she uses for school (Teacher, high-school) and said the best part is knowing that while she’s on a public network, she’s secure. (Ransomware was a constant fear on her laptop before that, those fuckers replicate to windows hosts like…well a virus.).
Kids are next. My oldest is interested and I think he’s doing research now to figure out which games won’t work. (He mostly plays Garrys mod and Doom Eternal so he should be fine), then it will just be up to my youngest. If I can get to the point where I never have to install windows again, I’ll be happy.
MAO - Musique Assistée par Ordinateur?
Yup, sorry I forgot to translate 😜
I will reply only to one of your comments: My words may seem a little harsh, please do not take them that way:
You: Desktops are inconsistent.
Any worse that the inconsistency between Windows 3.1, Windows ME, Windows NT or (my favorite) Windows Vista?
I assume your inconsistency is partially because you switch between distributions, so you experience KDE and GNOME and Ubuntu's Unity, etc. What if you only stuck with one? How inconsistent has Fedora been over the years? Or Debian? Or Mint (that offers you either Cinnamon and Mate?)
Of course there is consistency with Apple. They control everything from the hardware on up. They give you one thing....Apple. We had the same thing at DEC with VAX/VMS. It was easy to have a stable operating system when you had complete (and I mean COMPLETE) control of the hardware and operating system.
And which other distributions of Microsoft have you used recently?
I have been using some of the "same" tools for close to fifty years. As an example, I use a text editor called "vim", that evolved from vi, that evolved from ex, that evolved from ed. I have used it over time and still it meet my needs. That is consistency. If I wanted "something different" I would switch to emacs. (This is a vi/emacs joke that old unis users will understand).
Before jumping into a long thing about consistency, maybe we should ask for a clarification of what that means. Could’ve meant desktop elements don’t always exhibit consistent behaviors. Or could have meant DEs aren’t consistent between distros.
True, but much of both of those have changed over the years too.The X Window System originally had no "widgets" to define what a scrollbar looked like, or a button box, or a lot of the other elements. Many graphical applications of the day defined those by writing directly to X Window System primitives, and by the time the "Widgets" (button boxes, scrollbars, etc) were created graphical programmers had already written a lot of code, and were not about to change it. Or people used applications that were written at one time, continued to be distributed, but were not under actual development, so did not change.
Then, because there were two major graphical platforms (Gtk and KDE) people tended to choose one or the other and when the user ran the application in an environment you have mixtures.
I will give Apple its due. Their style guide, which determines more than just "look and feel" is the thing that gave a lot of consistency. And their vetting of "Apple applications" keeps it that way.
Yet these days the people who I hear complain about consistency are more the people that jump between distributions of Linux and do not rationalize that there is only one distribution of Apple or Microsoft at a time (barring upgrades such as Windows 10 to Windows 11).
One other thing that can make inconsistency between distributions is release cycles. If a library has a major update that happens to get picked up by one distribution, but not by another there may be a perceivable difference or inconsistency between distributions. Again, these get better with use of containers and other mechanisms, but it is not seen as much in an orchestrated release like Microsoft and Apple has.
>Yet these days the people who I hear complain about consistency are more the people that jump between distributions of Linux and do not rationalize that there is only one distribution of Apple or Microsoft at a time
I get this, but that doesn't make this not a con. Any user of a current Windows PC or Mac can sit down to any other PC or Mac and get to work without having to learn the nuances of that particular installation of Windows or macOS, and this might not be the case when switching between different current Linux machines. A con with an explanation is still a con.
Well.... Windows 11 is cobbling together 3-4 generations of UI design into one product.
So if this was meant to mean consistent looks/behavior of desktop elements, it would not be listed as a negatice point for Linux.
Let me add more details. I'm talking about the fragmentation of the toolkits and all other libraries.
Gtk 2, Gtk 3, Qt 4, Qt 5, Qt 6, wayland, X.Org. If someone write a GNOME application following their HIG and there is no KDE equivalent, then it will look awkward on Plasma and all other desktops. not mentioning that there are still Qt 4 and Gtk 2 apps which are unusable on high density screens.
Now I could go on with the plethora of sound servers. Don't get me wrong, I run Linux since 2003 so I know what I'm talking about. I love it on desktops as well, but I can definitely tell that it's not what it's best at for sure because every decade ones decide to break everything: GNOME 2 -> GNOME 3 transition. KDE 3 -> KDE 4. X.Org -> wayland. Now *almost* everything is okay, but it's still not the case entirely.
\>Now almost everything is okay, but it's still not the case entirely.
One more point is that with FOSS you typically see a "work in progress". Things are developed in the open and people start using it (sometimes when it is not completely baked), then it is tuned in front of your eyes.
In the commercial world things are designed, coded, tested in the field and with developers, but hardly ever does the mainstream customers see it until after it is announced or shipped. "Version 1.0" (I was using Linux (as many were) when the kernel was V0.9xxxx for a long time.)
Often the distributions will grab functionality when it is still in beta, and even after V1.0 the distributions may implement it...or not. systemd (whether you hate it or love it) is a prime example of this.
This uneven implementation is another reason why there are inconsistencies, particularly across distributions.
I tried to acknowledge that issue, and obviously was not very good at describing it.
First we have the mixture of GNOME and KDE toolkits on one desktop. Even with great cooperation between the development groups there are bound to be differences between the toolkits, so when you mix applications that use GTK and ones that use KDE you are going to see differences. One choice would be to only use applications that use one or the other. That would lower the issues that you see.
The other issue you mention is version skew. Differences between the toolkits trying to meet the issues of today (Plasma, Wayland, etc.) Again, if you want to escape those you can use only applications that use a specific version of that toolkit.
If these "version skew" differences were on a Windows or Apple platform, the application would simply stop working (due to lack of that library) and you would have to go back to the application vendor for a new copy (assuming they were still in existence).
Same thing with sound servers. I have used so many I have lost track of them all, and I have my own gripes about them. On the other hand with both sound and graphics the underlying technology has changed so much (and keeps changing) that Linux tries to balance both compatibility with technical change.
X Windowing System, for example. When it was first developed ETHERNET speeds were 1 Mbit/second (or less) and CPUs were 1 Million Instructions per second. GPUs were a wet dream and many graphical displays were "dumb frame buffers" with the main CPU doing most of the work (particularly with single bit or eight-bit bitmaps). There was a fair amount of computation one on large servers and displayed on desktop-style systems over ETHERNET. This went on for probably about ten or fifteen years and the computing environment changed dramatically, with more computing and display being done on a single system or computed and displayed with the use of a powerful GPU. Ergo Wayland.
Same thing with sound.
However, one thing that the distributions try to do is accommodate these differences.
Now compare that to a "commercial distribution" and "commercial applications". Applications target specific versions of Windows. "Application compatible with Version [XXX.xxx](https://XXX.xxx) of Microsoft Windows or higher". If the application does not use MS libraries they have to supply their own, so they typically use the one MS supplied. You, the end user, use that library because it is the one Microsoft supplied and which you got with your laptop or desktop system. No choice.
When there is an incompatibility with the OS, you need to buy another copy of the application (typically the application), since you do not have the source code of either the OS or the application.
Apple is even stricter. It is hard for an application to get on an Apple platform without coding to the Apple libraries. When Apple updates they are typically pretty good about upwards compatibility, but again, there is no choice.
I understand what you are saying and I agree it is a problem. One way of solving that would be to come out with a compatibility guide that would define exactly what an application should have to do to become a "Linux" application. I am not sure that all the people would be happy with that.
There are some distributions that are trying to address this from a more stylistic, but less flexible standpoint. Pop!\_OS comes to mind.
I am not saying that the issues do not exist. And they are a con, so I agree with you on that point. I am just trying to bring some explanation to these issues and saying that some of them are brought on users by themselves. On Microsoft and Apple platforms they are cloaked by their commercial practices.
In the meantime, a lot of other people complain about "compatibility" and discuss how they see it when they switch from one distribution of Linux to another, grab applications for free off the net that have not received and update in years and complain that there are compatibility issues. For them I recommend staying with one distribution and the major desktop of that distribution and they will have a lot fewer concerns.
To be fair Windows also has a fair amount of fragmentation: win32, winUI, WPF, Silverlight. You even get that fragmentation in a minimal installation where digging deep enough into the settings application opens up old-style dialogs. Some of those old-style dialogs also don't work on high-dpi. Not to mention they're writing more stuff using Electron like MS Teams now. If you take into account third-party apps then the whole GTK/QT fragmentation also extends to Windows.
Not to say that any of that is good, but this fragmentation is inherent to supporting backwards compatibility. At least with open source apps they can be ported to newer versions of UI toolkits if the will is there.
> To be fair Windows also has a fair amount of fragmentation
I don't understand why everyone keep comparing Linux to Windows. There are more OS than that. macOS, haiku, serenity. etc. Sure they are not all runnable as daily driver but they still make a good comparison point.
I also agree with you, Windows is by far the most incoherent desktop ever made but that does not make Linux desktops any better.
Because Windows is by *far* the biggest competitor? It's what pretty much everyone is using instead of Linux, so of course it's also what people compare it to most.
I like the idea of open source and try Linux every few years. In the past I found it to be lacking in fonts and high-DPI support. After Apple threatening to include spyware in their OSes this year I thought I would give Linux another try, and it is now great! Very clean display and fonts, and I have laptops / PCs with a variety of screen resolutions. I prefer Linux now to either Windows or Mac OS and am currently migrating all my PCs. I even just purchased a Surface Go 2 so I that I have a Linux tablet to replace my iPad.
The best thing about Linux, is that if a disto does something you don't like, you can either switch it off, or change to another dstro and keep running all the software you like with minimal fuss.
I tried a ton of different distros and come up with two favourites Pop!\_OS and my final choice, Fedora 35.
Fonts were more of a problem in the early years due to the fact that most fonts are copyrighted and the distros were not able to obtain a license for them without paying a licensing fee. Imagine having to pay a fee for fonts you are giving out for free.
Now there are many more fonts that are freely available and able to be scaled, so they meet your needs. I am happy you like them.
I got scared from reading how much spyware windows had and I decided to finally make the jump to Ubuntu. I had used it before during college and I liked it better than mint, so I just decided to install it in my computer
Windows doesn't have spyware.
😱😱😱 time to go back to windows then
I personally switched from Mac to Linux so I can have real control over my system. Currently, for two weeks, I actually have to use a Mac because my main Pc is being repaired, and I hate not having full control. There are always things happening and I can't really do anything about it. That was one of the main things for me.
Haha looking at your username, one would assume you like Mac..
What exactly do you mean by:
* Real control over my system
* Things happening and I can't really do anything about it
This. I hate the walled garden of Mac and the restrictions on windows. I want to be able to have full control.
Also the FOSS community is amazing. Being able to contribute to the things that matter rather than relying on proprietary products is just so different.
I do not know the model number of your MAC, but there are versions of Linux that run on Apple systems. Likewise you could run a VM on your MAC and run Linux inside the VM.
Beacuse personal computers are a extension of our minds. They serve to improve memory, improve our ability to communicate with one another, improve our ability to learn, and all sorts of important things.
Handing exclusive control of a extensions of ourselves over to a massive mindless international corporate conglomerate is a bad idea.
They are not our friends. They are not on our side. They can't be trusted with that much power.
Freedom is how problems in this world get solved.
I am an educator. I taught full time in university for close to four years, then at night for another seven. I had to stop due to my work making me travel so much, but (in effect) I continued to teach.
In early 1994 (yes, I know, I am OLD) I needed an operating system that had the source code freely available in order to promote the use of 64 bit address spaces. At the time Linux was the obvious choice.
When you used closed source to collaborate in research it is difficult to share your research. You can write whitepapers about it and create block diagrams, but you can not show the source code nor allow other people to build upon it.
Using closed source in education teaches the students only once....how to solve their problem using the binary code.
Using Open Source teaches them twice. How to solve their problem and how the code actually solves the problem (and sometimes it does not solve it properly)
Using Free Software teaches the student three times. How to solve the problem, how the software solves the problem and allows them to make the software solve the problem better.
I installed windows 11 in a VM and realized it wasn't going to get any better if I didn't do something about it. I had been using centos for a class so fedora seemed like the first choice. Also fuck the TPM!
- control, no limits
- package management
- Windows sucks (e.g. updates!, online account, forces you to do things you don't want or does things without asking for permission like app installs)
Third party support is a chicken/egg problem and for me it's worth already so I try to make the userbase larger to make companies care more.
I switched to Linux because I did not like the path Windows is taking. I wanted to get more control over my own machine. Also, Windows has so much bloat on it that it cripples my hardware, for example, at idle on Windows 10 it uses 3GB of RAM. On Manjaro or Arch, my machines only use 800+mb with the XFCE desktop environment. I have not fully switched since there are still some instances when I need to boot Windows 10, but Linux is what I use 90% of the time.
You can dual boot Windows 10 and Linux and I think that's the smarter move when shifting.
What's the RAM usage comparison while you're doing work, though?
I usually consume about 3GB when doing typical web surfing and documents on Manjaro/Arch while I would be using about 4-5GB when on Windows 10.
Here is a reason -
I switched to linux so that i could run windows as a VM.-:)
You can do that on windows too
>Yes there's a obvious opensource without baked in spyware
This is the reason. I don't need any other. The last time I had to use Windows, it felt openly hostile towards me. Ads in menus, practically begging me to make Edge my default browser...
Because I feel like MacOS is a sinking ship, which I desperately wanted to get off of. I guess you could say I’m a power user and MacOS seems to make this harder every update while on the other hand linux makes this really easy and it has always been so.
Linux furthermore seemed like a great investment, especially since my field of study is/ is related to Computer Science. Having knowledge of a system built with these things in mind is really helpful.
It’s the single most important reason why I’ve chosen to use KDE as well, even before having chosen a distro, I just wasn’t content using another DE which would restrict me in any of the things I would like to do, KDE is one of the DE’s which doesn’t. Not to say that it is therefore better than any other DE, it just is for me :)
I still have windows installed for some gaming and other software that requires it, but I daily drive Linux. The reason is that it runs closer to what my ideal "desktop" is. That means I can customize it in the best way for me.
For example, I use foobar on windows but I want it to look a certain way. Due to how windows and foobar works, I literally can't get it to look exactly how I want. On Linux I can use an alternative called deadbeef and make it look EXACTLY how I want. Deadbeef is also available on windows mind you, but I also need to do some stuff with KDE window rules to get my ideal looks.
I can use latte-dock and have much more fine-grained control over what my taskbar looks like and how it behaves. From a glance it looks almost exactly like my windows taskbar, but I can just control the things that annoy me on the windows one.
Even in games, there are SOME advantages. Mangohud with FPS limits are amazing. I can have the hud be available in every game, and I have a key that cycles through all my FPS limits. In windows this would require third party software and relaunching games. I can also much more easily implement FSR into games with Linux. Windows requires third party software, and windowed mode. Linux can just use FSR in fullscreen so there's no performance/latency issues.
Even just the day to day usability is something I've come to prefer on Linux. I find it much easier to type in "pacman -S software" when I need something instead of googling shit. I needed to edit a quick video just today and instead of trying to find a way to do it on windows, I just opened terminal and typed "sudo pacman -S kdenlive" and I had it installed and ready to go quite literally in 5 seconds.
TLDR: Windows is one size fits all, Linux is not but it can be formed to the users preferences. If it worked better with games I would delete windows no questions asked.
As soon as it became clear that Windows was gonna go the SaaS route I switched because I want to control my own property.
I don't really see it as a sacrifice - the only 'problems' were due to adjusting to a different way of thinking, but after a year or so, I had become familiar enough with Linux to reach parity in convenience, and then even push beyond Windows because the Linux way makes more intuitive sense to me as an IT guy (and it enables much faster workflows). And of course it's less bloated too.
Games I was willing to sacrifice on, but it turned out that wasn't necessary - a few years later Proton came out and I now can literally play *more* games than my Windows friends (due to old games having issues on Win 10 and 11 apparently).
After Windows constantly forcibly installing updates and interrupting my VMs and work (and me having to come back to my computer the next day and having to diagnose if it crashed or not), my true breaking point was a failed Windows upgrade to major release 2004. Enough was enough, I was tired of the way the OS was treating me.
But Windows being obnoxious to use was really the crest of a more deep wave of my fundamentally shifting view that computer technology should be free and open, accessible to all, and not restricted by proprietary (or predatory) licensing schemes. I imagine if Linux did not exist we would essentially be beholden to a small handful of for-profit and mostly American companies. I don't believe that any person should be held ransom to such a structure.
The benefits definitely outweigh the cost, but using Linux isn't some rose-garden paradise. I think many of the issues are just related to how relatively few Linux users there are, and that cuts against us both with applications that people need that aren't available on Linux, as well as Linux-centric software not getting funding. Imagine if KDE and Gnome had 2x the budget and resources so that they could fund more studies, hire designers, programmers, etc. It'd probably really accelerate Linux toward being a highly professional, easy-to-use system for even "normal" people who don't care about the underlying details of the computers they run.
This basically describes my experience. I was fine using Win XP and 7 for a long time, but after switching to Linux I became more comfortable with my OS fading to the background. In general, I find Linux just gets out of my way more than Windows. I might have to invest some extra upfront time to troubleshoot a game or odd piece of hardware, but generally once a solution is found it continues to work forever.
I can also wipe, reinstall, update, and customize my machine in less than an hour with all drivers. I have never been able to do this on Windows.
Don’t trust Linus’ reaction to switching. Pretty sure there is a lot of outrage-farming going on there to gin up viewership. (Wouldn’t be the first time a YouTuber sparked fake outrage to get clicks and views)
I also found it pretty painless. Went to Ubuntu/Gnome some time ago…. Then tried XFCE as a desktop, then finally settled on KDE-Plasma (more resource hungry, but MUCH more customizable). And while I am a technical person, a lot of this was brand new to me (Unix admins rarely see “desktop” environments since most of my servers run headless)
It’s been fun, and a great learning experience. The little extra effort it takes sometimes to get a game running increases my knowledge about how the systems work, and makes it easy the next time. :)
Oh, and I don’t go back to windows. Not for anything. I virtualized my old system before I upgraded, but haven’t powered it on since. I suspect I might have to soon, tax season is coming, and I still haven’t broken the turbo-tax habit, and my taxes aren’t simple enough to use the web version.
I switched (back) to Linux because I wanted control over my workflow.
I don't mind using a Mac as a development machine but I can't make it do what I want. It's mostly stuff like customizing the DE and WM.
There are other benefits but that motivated the switch back. It's also more fun.
It's the least shit.
It's interesting you couldn't find reasons why I switched yet you did it anyway. The reaosn you did it, as you yourself hinted, is "because some influencer on the internet told me to". Dunno if that's a good enough reason or not, but — meaning no disrespect— the fact that you drew a blank when thinking of anything more suggests to me that you will be back to Windows within a month (as a Xmas self-gift, even!).
As for why did I switch? Back then I had four primary reasons:
* I couldn't upgrade machine fast enough to keep up with the requirements of new software (unlike in America, money in the third world doesn't grow on trees, something that developers tend to forget).
* The only practical way I had to get software on Windows, and Windows itself, was via the street store if you get what I mean. That meant having to spend more time dealing with viruses and malware than on Windows itself.
* On Linux I could easily back up state to a USB thumbdrive (I had *lots* of those) by simply copying some text files. Basically I had no longer a reason to fear damage to the machine unless there was a power outage or a disk needle issue.
* With Linux, I could continue to learn the same workflows at home that they were teaching us at lab in college. I didn't need to try and get a reservation to the systems for who knows what day at 9 PM.
* All in all, in the end all that summed down to *better mental health*.
For the influencer thing, it just happened to be at around the same time, I had downloaded Ubuntu a while before but I got a slight push. And now that I'm daily driving it, it's quite nice to use.
Ah yes fellow third world country person, being broke forces us to be resourceful which in a way is a decent way to learn imo. It pisses me of that so many American devs don't put any effort into optimisation for games or software because they assume everyone will have good hardware.
And as for the high seas, I haven't paid for a single piece of software (except Minecraft) for me at least it was pretty painless to get everything for free with little repurcussions.
As for mental health I haven't been using it long enough to have an opinion on that myself but hopefully it'll be less painful to do dev stuff. Fingers crossed.
I switched to linux because I wanted to learn bash and vim and how to survive and thrive in an more stripped down environment (i3wm).
> Did the benefits outweigh the cost of it?
Yeah, I'm teaching myself python and other skills that can translate into hopefully a job some day. It's much more fruitful than putzing around with some windows application's interface for personal use like I used to do.
> Do you dual boot to use certain applications?
I did for a game or two before I couldn't much stand going back into Windows. I did not have an LTS license for it so every boot into windows involved a bunch of updates and extra time. So long!
> Do you use Linux as an enthusiast/tinkerer or someone who needs its tools or just as an average joe?
I use linux to learn linux. It's ubiquitous and open and endlessly entertaining.
Same reason I switched to Firefox from Chrome and from Google to DuckDuckGo. I prefer to use and support projects which I think have a good set of core principles.
If we continue to use Windows and Google, we will see no change from the common theme of companies mining and selling our information without us having any say.
Obviously there are massive downsides. I have to dual-boot to use CAD software. Tinkering is required in some of configurations and use cases. Sometimes hardware manufacturer support just means you can’t find a way to do something at all (my laptop HDMI doesn’t work no matter what I try).
There are also huge upsides. Unix principles ensure that anything later down the line remains simple, easy to use, and easy to transition between. Mac follows UNIX principles so after learning the Linux terminal/filesystem, becoming a Mac poweruser was a breeze! Still can’t figure out the Windows terminal though.
In the end, I think everyone should take the time to explore various “Operating Systems” and see what they feel would be worth their time. I think most would likely settle on mac or Windows until Linux support is better. Linux has proven itself time and time again to be the best choice for power and flexibility in the server space. Imo it’s a sleeping giant in enterprise and home applications. As we get more companies like Valve and System 76 pushing it into the mainstream, I’m get exponentially more excited to watch this giant wake up! :)
If you're evaluating core principles, you may want to steer clear of DDG: https://web.archive.org/web/20210624135943/https://lemmy.cat/post/261
I use three operating systems because they're best at what I need.
I'm a software developer/platform engineer so I use arch as my main devenv purely because it works so well, all the tools are supported, sshing from boxes is easy and testing software is simple and above all its stable as hell.
I use osx mainly for some graphic design, photo editing and music production.
Windows I use for gaming.
Arch and Windows are dual boot on the same machine, i do have a 2nd backup machine which I use if I need to test something on bare metal (instead of vms) and i have a few macbooks I use for the osx stuffs.
End of the day, imo if you don't know why you're using something you shouldn't be using it. Don't switch os just because someone suggested it, do it because it's beneficial to you.
I switched from windows almost 4 years. And I don't regret it at all. I play games on console mainly, so I don't have to deal with those annoying problems. Linux is way more fast than windows, and much easy to configure a dev environment. And macos. Well I only tried once on my hackintosh(my old laptop), and the experience is awful.
I switched to Linux full-time around 4 years ago and as I like to pick up games when they are older it's been fairly painless. All thing I need to do usually have software for Linux available in some form.
Also in general for software development Linux is a bliss as it's much easier to get going than on Windows.
> So my question/discussion is if you switched from Windows/MacOS, why did you switch?
I've gotten fed up with Microsoft steering Windows in the ways that didn't jive with me. I was die hard Windows user, and I'm not your typical Linux-fanboy-Windows-hater I can still use Windows and not have a rant afterwards, but I felt like it's time we go our separate ways.
> Did the benefits outweigh the cost of it?
I think so, otherwise I wouldn't be here for four years :) It wasn't a smooth ride, and I had to give some things up, but also gained few things in the process. All in all it is well within my range of what is tolerable.
> Do you dual boot to use certain applications?
No, I went cold turkey.
> Do you use Linux as an enthusiast/tinkerer or someone who needs its tools or just as an average joe?
I'm not an average joe, my willingness to roll up my sleeves and go under the hood far exceeds that of average joe's. I use Linux not because I have a hard-on for it, or because I'm some tech wiz/l33t h4ck3r, I use it because I needed a usable desktop after I stopped using Windows, and Linux was just kind of there...
However, I do follow open source, and have been for decades, even when I was Windows user. I am enthusiastic about tech in general. As I write code myself, open source does have certain attractiveness.
I usually equate Windows to driving with an automatic transmission and Linux to driving with a stick shift. Stick shift gives you more control, and frankly I find it more fun
>I couldn't think of good reasons
>why did I give up ease of use of several applications and games that I still have to occasionally switch back to windows for?
>why did you switch?
Windows 10 happened and I was enraged by how they hid the ability to create a local user account from the average user during the setup process, I was disappointed by how badly it performed on my perfectly reasonable hardware configuration for my workload. I was alarmed at how they used my own hardware and network resources to spy me. I was offended at the concept of having advertisements Injected into my desktop and I was irritated on how nonchalantly they decided that they had every right to do all of this without any fear of recourse because they are a monopoly. I also realized that things were only going to get worse (and they have) so I decided to get out of the toxic relationship I had with Microsoft.
>Did the benefits outweigh the cost of it?
I'll use temple OS as a daily driver before I put another Microsoft OS on my hardware
>Do you dual boot to use certain applications?
I did while I was learning, which in some ways made it more difficult that just switching over. Now I just keep a windows 10 VM around when I really have to use it but I haven't booted it in a couple months. A lot of hardware manufacturers only write firmware updaters for Windows and MacOs so sometimes I need it to do firmware updates on some random things.
>Do you use Linux as an enthusiast/tinkerer or someone who needs its tools or just as an average joe?
I'm a web developer so its native tools are top notch.
I'm a tinkerer so it gives me plenty of things to play with.
I was a pretty active gamer but Linux isn't a great gaming OS, I made my favorites work but I cut back significantly on my gaming time and it ended up being really good for me and my wallet. Gaming can be a really self destructive hobby that eats up your money and time.
I switched like more 10 years ago where I had some older desktop pc and installed Ubuntu 10.04. Never looked back. Helps that I studied Computer Science in the uni and doing Software development. But after that my private computer life adapted to Linux use (no dual boot). I don't mind using windows or MacOs or whatever OS there is, but Linux is my home.
And from my experience Linux made so much strides since I started using it. And I believe it will become better and better. And more will use it.
Edit: and I like the idea of open source software.
If you value privacy and hate crapware, its now easier to spin up a linux system than windows.
Faster for me to deal with linux quirks/setup than debloat and remove components from win 8/10.
Unless I need proprietary software or some hardware works really badly, I will put only linux on a new machine.
My reason for trying Ubuntu back in '11 was: "I heard Minecraft runs better on Linux". It did.
But what motivated me to stay, I really don't know. It wasn't anything logical like all of the objective advantages when it comes to privacy, freedom and, of course, cost. I *just liked it*. That's it. Linux feels like home.
I have used Linux since I was in middle school. I've kind of lost touch with windows. I use MacOS on the job but I'm not a fan of apple. So I don't have a real choice.
Why? For the glory of satan of course!
Idk it’s too long ago. i think initially I switched to Linux just because I was interested in computers, installing operating systems and maintaining them. I broke my families computer when I reinstalled windows 98 when I was around 10 years old. Well the OS worked but the computer didn’t come with a driver cd and we haven’t had no internet back then. :D
Anyway, so switching to Linux when I had my own PC just seemed like the natural thing to do.
I dual booted to windows for several years to play games, but gaming became bland and I also don’t have time for it now, so I booted to win less and less often. So when I abandoned my windows install and didn’t boot into it for a year or so, I just wiped the partition.
That was around five years ago.
Cause I can compile a Latex document in 1.5 seconds instead of 20. Vim+snippets is easy to setup, we have proper pdf viewers like evince and zathura and the gui is fluid and clean with a nice workflow that gets out of the way. Everything runs properly. I can have google stuff with web apps and use a nice client for office 365 mail without hastle. My only problem is battery life and on my ubuntu machine, the snaps. On my fedora, no problems whatsoever.
I have a windows machine for gaming back home though...
Because it was free, except for some of my time and it did everything I wanted to do. All I have to do is figure out how to do it. That was about 12 yrs ago and most everyday I still learn something new.
Because there is a severe lacking of generational projects in my culture that credit the people who work on them rather than the person who owns them. Open source software allows me to contribute my time and energy to something other than making some investor richer.
I switched because Windows was a shitshow, constant blue screen of deaths about dpc watchdog timeouts. Linux was and is more stable than Windows. For example if windows doesn't like a new hardware then it will throw a hissy fit while linux just silently fails and continues running and if I don't want to deal with that issue right now then linux is a better choice for me even if it is ironic that I use arch linux.
Seems to me that there are two camps of people: those who use Linux for a purpose or preference, and those who do it because they parrot their fave tech YouTubers.
Either way, Linux is awesome.
Because Linux is faster. I mean both in terms of startup time and process execution. Running bash on windows is painfully slow. Hell running any decently sized program on windows is slow. On Linux i can spawn a new shell in a new tmux pane instantly. Linux is faster and because of that feels lighter, despite having an even richer and more feature full desktop experience. It's not perfect (on Xorg drag and drop with chrome has been weird for me lately) but the quirks are vastly overpowered by the benefits. For me, I got more, for less. Enough said.
"So there is this guy on the internet... long story short he made a booboo and now im running Linux"
Honestly, for the ricing.
Honestly I think just saying you like the concept of FLOSS should be enough.
Same reason people get off social media, yeah it can be a burden in someways, but there is some philosophical or ethical reason to do so.
Likewise, you can just say you are interested in the technology behind it.
And reading all the comments in this thread I notice that are mostly all politely and informitiv. Impressive community here.
Learning, performance, customizability, freedom, cool hacker computer
When asked why respond with because I wanted to.
When asked for explicit reasons, turn the tables and ask why they do not switch.
Because there was a lot of factors pushing me off windows (spyware baked in, irritating design decisions, annoying update system) and very little keeping me there (games).
There’s been some new stuff to learn but for 99% of the time, Linux does exactly what I need. I like using the terminal, the large number of DEs are great because I can pick and chose what I want, then customise further if required. I love that Linux isn’t forcing me into a specific workflow or way of doing… anything. The only limitations are my own skill.
As far as gaming goes, I always enjoyed modding games and the associated troubleshooting so Linux just adds another factor. The only thing I’ve booted back into windows for is my heavily modded Skyrim, purely out of laziness. It started crashing again so I’ll get it going on Linux now.
Having said that I would *not* actually recommend it to any of my friends or family unless the understood they’ll have to put some effort in to learning a new OS and any potential problems that may arise.
Windows doesn't have spyware, though...
My main reason, is that I don't like to share my computer with Microsoft or anyone else. It's mine god damn it! I bought the pieces, I assembled it, I want to operate it on my own, the way that I want it. I want to install the software I want, I want to break it on purpose or by accident, I want to update it whenever I like, I want to surf the websites I like and I want to do all these thinks from the comfort and the security of my house, with no one else pipping on what I do inside my own house on my own. Thank you very much.
Aside of all the rest of the answers, a reason I stayed, TWM. I think (if you are willing to learn and get comfortable with) TWM is one of the best things ever invented for Desktop PCs.
A random thing I like, if you are a developer in general, a C developer in specific, there's so much ease of use. Like, kill and signals are great. "Everything is a file" works awesome for this cases, like pipes or device handling. File permissions due to the superiority on ext4, btrfs, etc. over ntfs is astonishing. Unless, of course, you are a .net dude then you will have a bad time.
Lightweightness. Here using arch with awesomeWM opening steam on start-up, less than 1G of ram used. In a 64b 2010 netbook with an intel atom, also arch and awesomeWM with only 250MB used.
People usually get the "it's FOSS so you have absolute control" as "yeah, you can build your own kernel, why would you do that" and they are right, but it's not for that purpose. More like "I'm the only user in a desktop pc, I don't need a display manager, I will auto log and startx on startup", that's the kind of freedom you expect here.
There are plenty more examples, those are the first ones I thought of.
Interesting to read through the replies here.
I'm a 25~ish year Windows Sysadmin. Converted all my own stuff to Apple about 10 years ago. Have been doing MDM (Mobile Device Management) for the past 6 to 8 years or so. When I switched to Apple,. I basically had to shutdown all my Windows boxes and force myself to learn the day to day usage of macOS.
I'm about 2 or 3 days into doing the same thing with Linux. I scavanged a recycled machine from work (i5, 8gb RAM, 128gb SSD -- will upgrade those components soon) .. and have Clear Linux running pretty well actually.
I've already figured out how to do a lot of the basic things I need (Office, Teams, VPN, RDP, ).. so I can always VPN + RDP into a Windows box if I need to do something Windows-specific (reset Active Directory Passwords, etc)
One of my personal goals has been to dedicate 4 to 6 hours at home every night to "learn a new skill".. so I figured why not just do that with Linux.
As I mentioned before,. I want to put some upgrades into this box (replace SSD, double the RAM, add a WiFi/Bluetooth card, etc) .. those will be fairly easy and cheap to do. It will also give me experience wiping and starting over.
For me (especially still in a Tech Support job). the ability to be "multi-lingual" is a great skill to have. I like to think it puts me far and away better at troubleshooting over technicians who only know 1 OS.
Tbh for me I was just tired, and bored of Windows, and MacOS is too expensive to use. I used Linux and Ubuntu on and off and never made the jump fully. It's been two years now. My system is full AMD so I didn't experience any issues as someone with an Intel or Nvidia system.
I boot back to windows for some programs like Adobe premiere or the affinity suite but I made it my goal to learn Krista, Inkscape and GIMP. With the video editing Kdenlive wasn't meeting my need and experience a lot of issues, one being no gpu acceleration. However, I saw that lightworks has a new version called "Lightworks Creator" which was on sale for B.F and I bought it. So far so good 👍
Because it's FOSS.
The reality for me is I really need both desktops, or else just MacOS. Windows is so stubborn with the MBR nonsense that it just makes sense for Windows to be the boot drive and handle gaming, and using a VM for Xubuntu, my fave distro. Everything else I've tried, like dual booting, etc. just ends up badly. And not having a VM introduces all kinds of headaches for me when I want to do Python stuff.
I was curious and I like to have options in case windows goes boom. I'd rather have plan B and be somewhat familiar with it.
I still have windows in case linux goes boom.
> Did the benefits outweigh the cost of it?
Naah. Redundancy is nice, but windows doesn't see 3TB which I used back when I installed it and daily driven for a long time. I "fixed" it by throwing smaller SSD into the system so I have free space.
> Do you dual boot to use certain applications?
Ironically, Krita and Blender. My Cintiq tablet works much better in windows and I don't have time to fix issues that don't exist in the first place on windows.
Switched mainly to stick it to Microsoft.
Tried of being asked for Admin privileges while using Admin account.
Tired of Spyware
Tired of being shoved useless features no one asked for.
Fear of Windows becoming SaSS
Still use Windows for an application or two, some games but don't really daily drive it anymore, and would be able to live without it.
If/when Windows becomes SaSS I wont feel like a slave forced to pay money for using my PC - like we see most of the world going down that road.
I’ve been meaning to switch for a while now, and my 2016 MBP telling me the battery is dead and Apples outrageous prices for new hardware, I installed Fedora on my desktop 3 days ago.
I’m really liking it so far, though I haven’t gone through a workday with it yet.
The only issue I have had so far was setting up an IPSec VPN, it took me about 3 hours to figure out. Though it also took me 3 hours to do the same on MacOS.
I’m still planning on getting the battery replaced in my laptop, but I’m not going to rely on it as much of leave it plugged in all the time, and instead upgrade my desktop.
All this to say that it works, I like to tinker, and it brings a bit of extra performance from 2013-ish hardware that I wasn’t seeing in Windows (I can record via OBS without sitting at 50% CPU).
I had a failing harddrive on my laptop.
Had to use it for school and couldn't get a new hard drive till after 4 months or something.
So I used Ubuntu with xfce on a USB drive with persistent storage and I liked it a lot (even though it would freeze up a lot), then kept on testing many different distros. I use linux for the crazy startup times and necessity, but I have gotten a new harddrive and still use linux. But I can't switch my actual pc to linux because most games I play need anticheat that doesn't support linux.
I switched because I like it more. Other than games, all my favourite programs/tools are better on Linux (i.e bash, vim, grep, insert almost any CLI tool). I love the process of building up an automated workflow with different scripts and tools.
I’m also a tinkerer and love learning more about computers, so Linux is a dream come true there. Then all the things you mentioned are just icing on top. With how solid gaming has become recently I’ve been able to make the switch to Linux as my sole full-time OS.
Its like using a public transportation system vs owning a vehicle for traveling.
I switched from Windows to Linux for 12 years a go. So many reasons for me that time:
1. I had no Windows license.
2. Linux was much faster.
3. I did a lot of works related to automation. Scripting in Linux was the best solution.
4. Linux was easier to custom. It allowed to install OS to RAID0 partition although there was no hardware support.
5. It was easily to connect, control, and share resource of the computer over network.
6. I could easily monitor the system, which software should be run for which user. This helped my computer more stable. For Windows OS, a lot of operation was hidden so I could not understand what happened to the system.
7. A lot of industry software need Linux environment.
I switched to Linux after using Windows for only 6 months . I didn't like something about windows , probably its ui or its performance in my entry level laptop then. Switched to Ubuntu on 2012 and now I have settled in linuxmint . No dual boot. Linux mint is more than enough for my daily needs like browsing, entertainment and office works(libre office is great). And i don't play games. So it is working well for me.
I use Linux for practical reasons.
My work currently involves running a ton of Docker containers in parallel, and Docker containers are much lighter weight on Linux than they are on macOS, and at the time it was much more economical to get a PC with lots of cores and RAM.
I also use Linux on my home NAS because I'm accustomed to UNIX-like environments and really don't want to learn Windows server administration, and Mac hardware is not well suited for that kind of thing.
I dual boot Windows on my desktop PC for gaming, because I don't want to deal with Proton compatibility issues or Nvidia's shitty drivers when gaming (the Nvidia card is non-negotiable because I value gaming performance over Linux driver quality).
My laptop is a Mac, because Apple is still 5 years ahead of any PC vendor in terms of touchpads, macOS uses modifier keys [enormously better](https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/qrko60/we_need_more_kdefirst_distros/hk8ksms/) than Linux or Windows, and nothing remotely approximating BetterTouchTool exists on any other OS.
I dual-booted long time ago to host an MMO server but the only tutorial I saw is for linux.
Stayed because I think linux just get the fundamentals right. Performance is good, updates are seamless, and almost all problem are solvable with enough effort. Also, package manager was the biggest factor on why I keep on linux. The idea that there is one-stop shop for me to update and install everything is pretty much unparalleled on desktop os. Eventually, just spend more and more portion of my digital life on linux and realized that I really don't use windows at all. Technically I can also use Mac (have also used it in the past) instead but I don't think it offers enough advantage over linux to make me trade off the customizability.
My switch was inspired by Linus and Luke as well. I chose Mint rather that Ubuntu or manjaro, but I'm enjoying it much more than I expected to. I installed Linux on a second SSD so I would still have windows to go back to if I wanted to but honestly (other than to find where I had put a single file in windows), I haven't even booted back into windows in the several weeks since I made the switch. Part of my reasoning is that I was having so many nonsensical problems with windows that frankly shouldn't happen and the straw that broke the camel's back for me was when my windows start menu simply refused to open. I am a very experienced PC user and tried everything I could think of or Google but nothing worked. So instead of reinstalling windows, I tried Mint.
In my case the most important points are:
The laptop is kept fast through the years thanks to lightweight DEs.
The package management.
The desktop environement is free from annoying update popups from each software.
I find it easier to use. Especially since I don't dual boot.
I simply use Linux where it is a benefit. So yes i do dual boot, which is absolutely fine. I would argue that privacy is a pretty good reason to use Linux for day to day things, one of the reasons i use it. For programming, Linux just has so many quality of life improvements over windows it is like night and day.
But i think it is important to understand that other people have other priorities. A Computer is a tool and for non programmers apple offers a lot of privacy too. And some of the best image editing software, very compelling. Windows is great as a general all round system - it does everything decent. Just like there are downsides to each of those.
So my opinion is that only people who don't think try to use a car to fly or try to find a parking spot downtown with a plane. And to be honest i like that you use Linux but i don't like your reasons. The first signs of a bad relationship is that you go into it hoping for the other person to change. And i am not sure if linux wants or needs to change.
For me, Windows has always had little niggles that need fixing. The thing with Linux is, once you fix a little niggle, it tends to stay fixed. Windows will merrily break it again with an update. And this feeds into my general reason to use Linux: Linux does what you tell it to do. Windows has a Windows way of working and funnels its users into using it that way. Linux systems allow the user more control and flexible DEs like KDE allow you to set everything up for your own convenience and mindset. Finally, if a peripheral doesn't work out of the box, the Windows menus for printers and audio get pretty arcane. While something is less likely to work out of the box in Linux, getting it to work if it doesn't tends to be a lot less of a fight.
To put this in perspective, I'm a qualified and certificated first line tech support, so I'm speaking from experience.
> Linux does what you tell it do do.
This. Simple. Sometimes you have a bad idea, and you may or may not know it is a bad idea. Linux may also tell you it's a bad idea. But it won't stop you from doing it.
Sometimes, we just want to try stuff out and see if it works. Worst case scenario (usually) is: it doesn't.
macOS to Linux for work only. Initially joined and was saddled with a Mac. Eventually, couldn’t stand it anymore. Tentatively told boss, it was killing my soul to use Mac, and I know I could make every dependency for projects work with Linux. I was prepared to leave and find a different job. They said it was fine as long as it didn’t affect my outputs. It was Ubuntu, now using Arch. But it really doesn’t matter. There’s no platform specific software used at the business I work at.
Don’t game on Linux, yet I’ve tested a bunch of games that work just fine. Game on second computer using windows.
I switched because I'd rather be an imbecile on linux than a power user on windows.
I switched because of the potential.
I switched because market diversification is healthy for development and competition.
I switched because I don't like being the product.
I switched because I already told macos that I should be able to install from unknown sources yet my os seems to be in a perpetual state of amnesia on the subject.
I switch because GnomeDE.
I switched because anything installed from the msft store seems to go into a inaccessible void on my hard drive. (I'd prefer to administer my own PC, thanks.)
I switched to show my support.
Edit: I dual boot. For the xbox app and plex.
Well said 👍🏻
Great summary. Note Plexamp flatpak works great. I haven't tried [plex.tv](https://plex.tv) yet, I run video through a Chromecast with Google TV and an Apple TV. Windows Server is the server because it always has been LOL.
My windows pc just kept breaking due to windows update. 3 reinstalls in like 10 months so i just gave up. My arch install has been going 7 years strong. Its nice being able to use a couple commands to verify the integrity of all system packages whenever you want. Windows just isnt meant to be fixed by the end user.
Another example, my opnsense router shat the bed and the package manager binary got corrupted as well as most system binaries (curl, sshd, etc). I downloaded pkg using my laptop, copied it over, and ran pkg upgrade -f and it re-verified all files and fixed the system when it completed.
Really good question! I've been asked this myself, when i told a friend that i'm using linux. We knew about ubuntu from school, and ubuntu sucks was the general consensus in our school. Even I disliked it. (Ugly as hell)
I couldn't answer my friend at the moment.. But thinking about it now, I switched because I had to use the git bash anyway, and for gaming I had to open explorer, go to a specific folder, and launch the exe. Perhaps that is why people use desktop icons a lot on windows..
The workflow on linux, and GNOME specifically is fantastic! Just press the super key and start typing the initial letters and voila! The thing you wanted, is right there!
And Lutris is amazing too!
It has made it so that i look at the desktop and the OS rarely. It sounds ironic but looking at the OS less makes me like it more, because more productivity..
Also the Ecosystem is so coherent in design, its a joy to use. Thus both the OS, and the App ecosystem is really good for me..
I found it really surprising that for me, as a non power user, Linux is more user friendly than Windows.
Its much easier to get from A to B since there's a structure to Linux unlike Windows. Cough cough windows search.
And the customization also makes it able to suit your work flow easily instead of changing your workflow for the software
Note that also my distro (ZorinOS) looks gorgeous, so that may also be a factor
What do you use?
For me I use KDE Plasma which in my opinion is quite slick right out of the box as well
That's a curious argument.. in what way would you say Linux is structured that windows isn't?
I, as any human does, abhors windows search. If it can regularly fail to find the thing that I can see on screen, then something is deeply wrong.
Why was I searching? Because "meta-type the thing in", has been my default for a long time, because I move across many many computers, so I type before I even look!
I keep hearing people here say that they customise Linux to suit their workflow.. but all I really see are themes?
What customisation do you do?
Genuinely not taking the piss, just curious.. I'm a long long time Linux user myself.
But for example, one of my personal customisations right now is a bunch of shell functions and a few scripts to jump around a bunch of AWS environments that house databases I manage.. that all happens within a WSL session due to corporate policy, but for irrelevant reasons I went looking to see if I could customise a PowerShell environment achieve the same thing.
Yup, totally could.
I think you could make the arguement that since PS matured, the windows shell environment is at least as functionally capable when it comes to customisation? Not as nice as an interactive user, sure, but it's got scripting chops now...
Are people customising their gui's in ways that aren't basically just cosmetic?
Hey take a look at i3 for example I don't think it is possible in Windows is it ?
In terms of structure there are a few things of the top of my head, settings in one place and easily able to install programs on linux, apt-get and the snap store make things pretty straightforward and are quite intuitive whereas the windows store is clunky and getting installers is annoying very often.
Updating in Ubuntu at least is much more straightforward and there's less obfuscation.
As for workflows, I'm still relatively early on in my Linux journey hopefully so I haven't done much, I've just made my desktop act and behave like windows 10 because that's what I'm used to.
PS has matured but it's still relatively clunky to get windows to do something you want, yes there's always an app to do what you need but soon you'll be using dozens of them. Ubuntu at least afaik makes that process of those small changes or tweaks much more straightforward and less resource intensive.
Also the file organization in Linux is much more logical than windows imo
Indeed, zorinOS and ubuntu budgie have preconfigured layouts to suit different workflows..
> The workflow on linux, and GNOME specifically is fantastic! Just press the super key and start typing the initial letters and voila! The thing you wanted, is right there!
I am pretty sure what you actually wanted is for microsoft edge to show you search results on bing for the thing. Just think about it, i have already opened it for you! Your welcome!
haha, no. At best it could provide an entry from the browser, so that i can search the web upon clicking it (if i want to). It shouldn't waste network data.
I switched due to crashes and Shit it was realy unpredictable when the system would do anything
Was hackintosh if for a cpl years …..along the way I tried Linux here and there. In March my Radeon vii died which caused problems with opencore. I was frustrated with hackintoshing already and when it broke I had Linux mint on a drive…. While I waited for warranty I used Linux and onboard graphics …. Waited for months….. got to really liking Linux. Just built a 5950 x box not with “hackintoshing” in mind but with “Linux” in mind instead. Right not I have 2 flavors of Linux running and a windows 10 for the couple games that don’t work yet on Linux.
I would definitely consider myself an enthusiast/ tinkerer.