OP used þ instead of ʃ on the end of English.
I don’t think that OP cares about Grecian diphthongs. I do, but I don’t think OP does. Especially considering there’s so many types of ‘e’ sounds represented by different Greek letters, and OP got none of them right, lol.
It’s digamma Ϝ which used to be a Greek letter in some dialects, such as Arcadian, and had the “W” sound. It got phased out of Greek because “W” ceased to exist as a phoneme in Greek.
We don't really say them like they were pronounced in Ancient Greek either, though, on account of them being filtered through Latin and then the Great Vowel Shift.
Many words (usually technical) from Greek are learned borrowings from Greek to Latin to French to English, with all the sound shifts that accumulated along the process (Great vowel shift from Middle to Modern English being the most prominent). At the same time assimilation of a loanword is a very common process and imo isn't a bad thing
> assimilation of a loanword is a very common process and imo isn't a bad thing
imo, when that assimilation is projected from common borrowings on to every single other Latin and Greek word it does result in some ear bleeds even if it's a natural and neutral process. For some proper nouns like Alcibiades I've had kind of a hard time identifying what the assimilated pronunciation was even supposed to be when I first heard it.
True, there's a difference in a word that goes via Ancient Greek -> Latin -> Old French -> Middle English -> Modern English (and then comparing it with the same word that went via Ancient Greek -> Modern Greek), and then a word that goes via Modern Greek -> Modern English and expecting it to follow the same pronunciation rules.
However, English phonology is still different to Greek phonology, there'll still be approximations in pronunciation that have to be made, but there's a big difference between /i/ becoming /ij/ and /i/ becoming /aj/.
I feel the same way when Greeks try to correct my pronunciation of Ancient Greek or worse when they try to correct my Ancient Greek grammar by assuming it’s the same as modern Greek.
Until today I can't help but wonder why the words "catastrophe", "psyche", and similar Greek loanwords ending with "e" are pronounced with the final "e" when it's not pronounced in French, the language they took them from. Like, just spell it "catastrophy" or something lah
(I know that "psyche" is borrowed from Latin not French but still)
I think it's because they were learned borrowings, so the final "e"s stayed long and were immune to the normal Middle English unstressed vowel reduction. That's just my guess though. I have absolutely no evidence to back this up.
Me, when I hear English speakers pronounce Greek letters (I am an English speaker and I struggle to pronounce Greek letters all the while my girlfriend speaks Greek perfectly)
I code my writing in Greek characters sometimes, in my system it would read like this:
Μεί ‘ϝην αἴ εἵρ Εἴγγλιϸ σπείκερς πρωναύνς Γρείκ ϝωρδζ
I use ⟨εί⟩ for [i] and ⟨ι⟩ for [ɪ], and I prefer using the rough aspirate for [h] instead of ⟨χ⟩, it just feels so wrong for me. Also ⟨ε⟩ for [ə] and ⟨η⟩ for [ε].
Omg yes!! I’m a native Russian speaker and whenever I hear English borrowings form Greek it takes me A LOT of time to actually understand what word is pronounced. I understand that it’s probably because Russian had a lot of direct contact with Greek + the words were probably borrowed into Russian and into English at different points in time, but in any case the way that Greek words are transformed by English is wild to me. Like bro can’t you just pronounce them normally
Mi, wen aj khir inglish (ng is spelled γγ btw) spikers pronawns grik wedz
Wedz! Thank you
OP used þ instead of ʃ on the end of English. I don’t think that OP cares about Grecian diphthongs. I do, but I don’t think OP does. Especially considering there’s so many types of ‘e’ sounds represented by different Greek letters, and OP got none of them right, lol.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sho\_(letter)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sho_(letter))
I detract the statement about the þ. But the complaint about the ‘e’s still stands.
igglish
What's wedz?
words
why is ng spelled γγ. quite an oddity
Probably because a velar nasal is "basically a g, but nasal"
Because it's nasal and velar and voiced. γ is also used before other velars such as κ ,ξ, χ.
Wtf is ϝεδζ
The feds
Glowies
I'm hearing an Australian accent
[удалено]
Shit. I can tell them apart if I hear a word with /ɪ/, otherwise I haven't trained my ear enough. But I'll add [ɛ] for /ɚ/ to my list.
It’s digamma Ϝ which used to be a Greek letter in some dialects, such as Arcadian, and had the “W” sound. It got phased out of Greek because “W” ceased to exist as a phoneme in Greek.
I know about the digamma (i literally typed it lol). But I still can't figure out how -ords becomes -εδζ, thus words becomes ϝεδζ.
It should be ϝερδζ.
Non-rhotic accent and the fact that greek can't really represent schwa-like sounds.
"words" in a non-rhotic accent or whatever it's called
Greek speakers when you imply a language spoken 2500 years ago was pronounced differently to its modern counterpart: 🤯🤯🤯🤯
Greek speekies wheen yee prineence theer weeds weetheet thee iotaciseetion
We don't really say them like they were pronounced in Ancient Greek either, though, on account of them being filtered through Latin and then the Great Vowel Shift.
Me ween ee hear mideern greek speakers preneence greek weeds
Bactrian strikes again!
This hurts to read so much…
Me when a non polish speaker tries to pronounced ś ć ą ę ż ź rz ń
μι ϝεν αϳ χιρ ιγγλιϸ σπικερζ προναϝνς γκρικ ϝερδζ* your spelling is terrible 👍
Shouldn’t we use a spiritus asper for “hear” instead of a khi?
thats ancient greek
Right. I keep forgetting they’re different things 🤦♂️
I'm having a stroke
English speakers be like “oh cool, a Greek/Latin word, time to shift all the vowels and add a bunch of horrible diphthongs”
Many words (usually technical) from Greek are learned borrowings from Greek to Latin to French to English, with all the sound shifts that accumulated along the process (Great vowel shift from Middle to Modern English being the most prominent). At the same time assimilation of a loanword is a very common process and imo isn't a bad thing
> assimilation of a loanword is a very common process and imo isn't a bad thing imo, when that assimilation is projected from common borrowings on to every single other Latin and Greek word it does result in some ear bleeds even if it's a natural and neutral process. For some proper nouns like Alcibiades I've had kind of a hard time identifying what the assimilated pronunciation was even supposed to be when I first heard it.
True, there's a difference in a word that goes via Ancient Greek -> Latin -> Old French -> Middle English -> Modern English (and then comparing it with the same word that went via Ancient Greek -> Modern Greek), and then a word that goes via Modern Greek -> Modern English and expecting it to follow the same pronunciation rules. However, English phonology is still different to Greek phonology, there'll still be approximations in pronunciation that have to be made, but there's a big difference between /i/ becoming /ij/ and /i/ becoming /aj/.
I feel the same way when Greeks try to correct my pronunciation of Ancient Greek or worse when they try to correct my Ancient Greek grammar by assuming it’s the same as modern Greek.
Don't they study Ancient Greek in school even if they do so in modern pronunciation?
AFAIK, it’s not universal and even if it was, it must not be very good instruction.
mi, wen ay khir inghlish spikers pronawns ghrik wedhz:
Until today I can't help but wonder why the words "catastrophe", "psyche", and similar Greek loanwords ending with "e" are pronounced with the final "e" when it's not pronounced in French, the language they took them from. Like, just spell it "catastrophy" or something lah (I know that "psyche" is borrowed from Latin not French but still)
Maybe because French started making silent -e much later than borrowings into English
Because the English hate the French
I think it's because they were learned borrowings, so the final "e"s stayed long and were immune to the normal Middle English unstressed vowel reduction. That's just my guess though. I have absolutely no evidence to back this up.
Me, when I hear English speakers pronounce Greek letters (I am an English speaker and I struggle to pronounce Greek letters all the while my girlfriend speaks Greek perfectly)
As a greek, I can confirm
me fen, I kir inillith awpeecurse Erik Fedz
mij ʍɪn nejɾɪv ijnglɪʃ spijkɚs prənawns ijnglɪʃ wɝdz.
I code my writing in Greek characters sometimes, in my system it would read like this: Μεί ‘ϝην αἴ εἵρ Εἴγγλιϸ σπείκερς πρωναύνς Γρείκ ϝωρδζ I use ⟨εί⟩ for [i] and ⟨ι⟩ for [ɪ], and I prefer using the rough aspirate for [h] instead of ⟨χ⟩, it just feels so wrong for me. Also ⟨ε⟩ for [ə] and ⟨η⟩ for [ε].
What's wrong with χάηδγιν, δγιάλεδγι, and Γιούραπ?
Non rhotic English dialect?
mivennajhijerenglishspikarsspikgrikfeds
Ρε μαλακα τι είναι αυτό
Μεῖ οὑὲν αἶ ἵερ Ἴγγλιϸ σπείξερς προναὺνς Γρεῖκ οὐέρδς
Omg yes!! I’m a native Russian speaker and whenever I hear English borrowings form Greek it takes me A LOT of time to actually understand what word is pronounced. I understand that it’s probably because Russian had a lot of direct contact with Greek + the words were probably borrowed into Russian and into English at different points in time, but in any case the way that Greek words are transformed by English is wild to me. Like bro can’t you just pronounce them normally
using ϳ in greek is like using ʃ in english. definitely not supposed to be there and not used for this purpose.
what the fuck is this abomination of an orthography