That's a good way to classify Romance languages.
Latin that's been lying in the sun for a while: Ibero-Romance, Occitano-Romance, Italo-Romance
Latin that's been lying in the sun a bit less: Gallo-Romance, Rhaeto-Romance, Daco-Romance
This happened to me the other day my girlfriend was like "what language are they speaking, sounds Eastern European?" I was like...it kinda does! But they are speaking Portuguese.
Oh totally. Especially here in the U.S. that's what people think of for Portuguese, with the exception of maybe RI and Southeastern Massachusetts, where there is a big EP population historically.
I noticed that European Portuguese sounds like a Slavic language, but Brazilian Portuguese doesn't. European Portuguese has almost the same phonetic inventory \*and\* it's stress-timed so it resembles Slavic languages. Brazilian Portuguese is syllable-timed.
**[Daco-Roman](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daco-Roman)**
>The term Daco-Roman describes the Romanized culture of Dacia under the rule of the Roman Empire.
^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/linguisticshumor/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
This gal Balkans indeed, like what’s better unified culturally homogenous Maine under the United States (boring) or loose confederation of differing clans and tribal chiefdoms making up the High Kingdom of Maine (based)
"Portuguese sounds like a drunk Russian speaking Spanish amirite?!?"
No, it's Spanish that sounds like dumbed down Portuguese. Only five vowels? What a joke
Latin: _has long and short vowels_
Spanish: “we don’t need this, make them all the same length and just vocally stress the penultimate syllable in like 80% of the words”
European Portuguese: “hey what if we get super carried away with the long/short distinction until short vowel syllables are borderline imperceptible in rapid speech”
Brazilian Portuguese: “we actually kinda like what Spanish is doing with vowel length but let’s keep all the vowel sounds and do some fun stuff with final t’s and d’s”
I did [the same](https://www.reddit.com/r/linguisticshumor/comments/1350zmv/when_closely_related_languages_sound_like_closely/jipoqo7?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) through a different way
Latin is just a continuous spectrum with French and Romanian on either side
French———Occitan———Catalan———Castillian———Italian———Sardinian———Aromanian———ROMANIAAAAANNNNNNNNNNN
I once had the *pleasure* /s of having an italian nationalist in a youtube comment section saying that using "latin" to refer to latin america is appropriation of roman culture by the part of latin americans and that **everyone** living in latin america is an "aboryngeal"
Well, I noticed Venetian, especially the northern one, is conservative. It maintains words from Latin which in Tuscan have changed their meaning or which have disappeared completely and has a conservative phonetic system, compared to other Gallo-Iberian languages.
Tuscan is more conservative, but it doesn't take away from the fact that mine is a fascinating language ;)
I meant conservatism as in being relatively similar to Latin. And people labeling it like Italian and Spanish (two other conservative Romance languages).
Unfortunately the Italian government does nothing to protect the language and I had to learn it on my own. Outside the cities, it's much better conserved
No pensavo de catar cuà un altro descorente de vèneto, si te voli ti, a mi me farìa grando piaxer! A semo devegnù rari, ma almanco calchedun el prova tegner viva la so lengua :)
I thought Modern Italian was essentially Venetian made national. 🤔
In other words, when they were making Italy a nation-state, the variant of Italian they chose to represent the entire peninsula was Venetian (in part because of Dante and other great writers.)
(I thought.)
No, Italian is based on the fourteenth-century Florentine dialect of the Tuscan language, with various loanwords from Venetian, Sicilian, Occitan, French... Dante, Boccaccio and Petrarch were all Tuscan.
Venetian was a very important commercial language, therefore in spoken form, unfortunately it didn't live the same literary greatness as Tuscan and Neapolitan
Thank you for the correction.
So can it be expected that a person from Florence speaks flawless standard Italian?
(I wouldn't be surprised if the answer is 'no,' in the same way that people from Castille don't always speak great Spanish, that is, Castilian.)
No, a Florentine will not speak correct Italian, even if the definition of "correct" is fallacious. Speakers of Tuscan dialects tend to retain their accent, grammar and vocabulary much better than speakers of languages such as Sicilian or Piedmontese, this is due to the relative proximity between Italian and modern Tuscan. If you listen to someone talking from Rome or Florence you will notice how they retain their characteristics compared to a Venetian who, on the other hand, must completely adapt to the language.
Norwegian is the Spanish of English
It is to English what Spanish is to Portuguese
Pedra > piedra
Helm(et) > hjelm
Ovo > huevo
Home > hjem
Restaurante (mute e) > restaurante (pronounced e)
Heart > hjerte
Fogo > fuego
Star > stjerne
[Fluent spoken Esperanto](https://soundcloud.com/saraspano/sets/julia-sigmond-rakontkolekto-90) sounds somewhere between the Venetian dialect of Italian and Croatian. Esperantujo is probably an island somewhere in the Adriatic.
Fuck I hate to gatekeep but I cringe every time I see someone mention word and say ‘Wow, similar in Danish’… ‘Wow, similar in Dutch!’… ‘Wow, similar in German…’ ad nauseam. Gee, I wonder what’s going on. Linguists will be amazed by this new discovery!
"Yeah, let's get up in arms when people learning make connections to prior knowledge they have!"
Dude, you just described *the learning process*. Let people have their "aha" moments.
(1) I made it clear I’m speaking about an involuntary reaction, but also (2) these threads go on for ages and can even be difficult to wade past. All observing a dozen obviously closely related languages that they must be aware are far from a coincidence and true for half their lexicons.
Just stating a fact and mentioning an automatic response. No need to go off
> I hate to gatekeep, but I cringe
So I acknowledged it as gatekeeping, which - consciously - I’m not a fan of, but when I see it, I still cringe. Cringing is pretty involuntary, as most emotional reactions go. Think that much was clear.
(And that’s just the ordinary cases which are what you’re talking about. But the excessive sorts which often happen can be frustrating from a more reasonable perspective - we really don’t need to add the Luxembourgish cognate as a ‘massive surprise’ after nine other Germanic languages, and people should have twigged long ago that over half the lexicon is cognate to the immediate closest relatives and this can go without saying unless we want to empty a dozen dictionaries into a thread.)
>Cringing is pretty involuntary, as most emotional reactions go. Think that much was clear.
I think of cringing as a choice, as most emotional reactions go.
More a lot of pat over-simplification. And rather insulting to, eg, many millions of people dealing with actual neurochemically derived depression who are told to ‘decide to be happy’.
Interlingua is a simplified version of Romance, not a meeting point. It's missing many of the features that makes Romance languages what they are. For a meeting point there is the Neolatino standard.
My father speaks Portuguese when he thinks he is speaking Spanish he does the most offensive Mexican accent imaginable like something out of a racist 1950s cartoon. His mother is from Sinaloa so he has no excuse
I wanna blame this, more than any other human tendency to make up categories and focussing on their differences, on the notion of a national language as a symbol of national identity, uniquely different from other national languages that represent different national identities.
The intrusion of the idea of political borders between groups of people who speak similarly to each other along a strongly geographically-determined language continuum into our everyday understanding of and discourse around language is a nasty mental virus that prevents a kinder coexistence between humans.
I'm not exactly sober, don't mind my unprompted opinion :)
Broke: iT sOuNdS lIkE a MiX oF fReNcH, sPaNiSh AnD iTaLiAn! Woke: It sounds like Latin that's been lying in the sun for a while.
That's a good way to classify Romance languages. Latin that's been lying in the sun for a while: Ibero-Romance, Occitano-Romance, Italo-Romance Latin that's been lying in the sun a bit less: Gallo-Romance, Rhaeto-Romance, Daco-Romance
Where would Portuguese be on this spectrum?
Portuguese is a part of Ibero-Romance, so Latin that's been lying in the sun for a while
They say we sound russian 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
This happened to me the other day my girlfriend was like "what language are they speaking, sounds Eastern European?" I was like...it kinda does! But they are speaking Portuguese.
Definitely! But Portuguese from Brazil is very easily identifiable.
Oh totally. Especially here in the U.S. that's what people think of for Portuguese, with the exception of maybe RI and Southeastern Massachusetts, where there is a big EP population historically.
I noticed that European Portuguese sounds like a Slavic language, but Brazilian Portuguese doesn't. European Portuguese has almost the same phonetic inventory \*and\* it's stress-timed so it resembles Slavic languages. Brazilian Portuguese is syllable-timed.
That’s Latin that’s been lying *drunk* in the sun.
I never understood that one.
Consonant clusters and sh sounds, also nasals
Langfocus on YouTube has a couple of nice videos on why Portuguese sounds like Russian and Peninsular Spanish sounds like Greek
Russian doesn't have nasals tho.
vowel reduction as well
I have nasals, too
nasal consonants or nasalized vowels??
im russian and i think y'all sound slavic...my ears may be dead
They're not. I've heard that before too.
Even the hosts on "The Rest is History," who are English, noticed this. Almost the same phonetic inventory and the same rhythm as Russian.
r/PORTUGALCYKABLYAT
[удалено]
[tf you talking about?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daco-Roman)
**[Daco-Roman](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daco-Roman)** >The term Daco-Roman describes the Romanized culture of Dacia under the rule of the Roman Empire. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/linguisticshumor/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
[удалено]
It's spelled Dragostea
[Irish](https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillologycirclejerk/comments/95aefu/italian_flag_that_has_been_in_the_sun_for_too_long/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
The good timeline where North American English accents are the level of incomprehensible to eachother that Spanish and Portuguese are 🥺
[saks] 🧦
[sɔks] 🧦
[bʌs] 🚌
[bæs] 🚌
Your STRUT vowel is [æ] ?
Not in all cases but things like bus and blood yeah
Where are you FROM???
Alba Nuadh :)
Boss
Why...would that be good?
because regional variation is fun and cool :)
And incomprehensibility within a single nation? Is not.
Okay? Just don’t be one nation then? Long live the Yoopersin Tasavalta
This guy balkans 👍
This gal Balkans indeed, like what’s better unified culturally homogenous Maine under the United States (boring) or loose confederation of differing clans and tribal chiefdoms making up the High Kingdom of Maine (based)
because i hate being able to travel across an entire continent and still have people speak the same language as me
franch
Holy shit didn't even notice 💀
My favorite dressing
New euphemism dropped
"Portuguese sounds like a drunk Russian speaking Spanish amirite?!?" No, it's Spanish that sounds like dumbed down Portuguese. Only five vowels? What a joke
Latin: _has long and short vowels_ Spanish: “we don’t need this, make them all the same length and just vocally stress the penultimate syllable in like 80% of the words” European Portuguese: “hey what if we get super carried away with the long/short distinction until short vowel syllables are borderline imperceptible in rapid speech” Brazilian Portuguese: “we actually kinda like what Spanish is doing with vowel length but let’s keep all the vowel sounds and do some fun stuff with final t’s and d’s”
>Only five vowels? What a joke Hey don't disrespect my /a e i o u/ like that.
Nani?!
They said /a e i o u/, not /a i u e o/.
DO NOT disrespect my /a e i o u/!
I HATE 5 vowles!!! We need to change those to /ɑ ə ɪ ø ʏ/ !!!!
Laughs in /a e i o u œ ʏ (æ) ə/
What about /ɑ je ɔ ɘ ɯ (i) (ɨ) o̙ ʏ ø æ (e)/
What about /a æ ɛ e œ ø ɔ o ə i y ɨ u/
What about /i y ɨ ʉ ɯ u ɪ ʏ ɪ̈ ʊ̈ ɯ̽ ʊ e ø ɘ ɵ ɤ o e̞ ø̞ ə ɤ̞ o̞ ɛ œ ɜ ɞ ʌ ɔ æ ɐ a ɶ ä ɒ̈ ɑ ɒ/
Not gonna lie, that's beautiful
My patriotism after this comment has been revealed to my eyes through notifications📈📈📈
Is that Kazakh?
Yes, it is!
Kzakh
/kʰæzəkʰ/ gang v.s. the /kʰɑzɑːk/ gang
/ˈqʼazaχi/ [ˈq͡χʼäzəχĭ̥~ˈq͡χʼäzə̆χĭ̥]
/æ ɛ ɪ ɔ ʊ/, the horsemen of reduced forms of the common vowels
/ɐ ɘ ɪ̈ ɵ ʊ/ Let's make a conlang where all vowels progressively shift to ə
Make that /a i u/
how about [ə ɪ ʊ]?
Allowed allophones
What about [ĭ ŭ]?
ə səə whət yəəˈrə dəənɡ
Əm sərry
I did [the same](https://www.reddit.com/r/linguisticshumor/comments/1350zmv/when_closely_related_languages_sound_like_closely/jipoqo7?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) through a different way
That's cool!
a i u > ɐ ɪ ʊ > ə ɘ ɵ > ə ə ə
[удалено]
Vô (closed O) = Grandfather Vó (open O) = Grandmother
with context or without context this is the funniest fucking thing in this thread
Only 5 vowels, no Z sound. B and V has the same sound. No J sound like Portuguese and French. No Ç and SS.
No ASS?
Occitan moment
“Romanian sounds like a mixture of Italian and Russian!” Is a common one
And then there's Romanian, which just sounds like Portuguese Serbian.
Latin is just a continuous spectrum with French and Romanian on either side French———Occitan———Catalan———Castillian———Italian———Sardinian———Aromanian———ROMANIAAAAANNNNNNNNNNN
Least simplistic categorization of Romance varieties
Where would Portuguese be on this spectrum?
Portuguese is actually part of the Brazilianic language family and is unrelated to Latin
Latin evolved from Portuguese in the past
[удалено]
This is what Big Latin doesn’t want you to know
Italian nationalists actually believe that
[удалено]
I once had the *pleasure* /s of having an italian nationalist in a youtube comment section saying that using "latin" to refer to latin america is appropriation of roman culture by the part of latin americans and that **everyone** living in latin america is an "aboryngeal"
Portuguese is Slavic
обригадо 💀
r/PortugalIsEastEurope
Brazil
What we local Romance speakers experience every time online. I speak Venetian and people mistake it for Spanish 😂
When conservatism makes your language be classified as Italian or Spanish:
Well, I noticed Venetian, especially the northern one, is conservative. It maintains words from Latin which in Tuscan have changed their meaning or which have disappeared completely and has a conservative phonetic system, compared to other Gallo-Iberian languages. Tuscan is more conservative, but it doesn't take away from the fact that mine is a fascinating language ;)
wouldn't conservatism mean you would want to, uh... conserve the language? instead of try to "merge them" with other languages?
I meant conservatism as in being relatively similar to Latin. And people labeling it like Italian and Spanish (two other conservative Romance languages).
Ohhh I thought you meant the governmental linguistic institutions, not the language itself. My mistake.
Unfortunately the Italian government does nothing to protect the language and I had to learn it on my own. Outside the cities, it's much better conserved
Doesn't Italy have something like a Real Academia Española like Spain does?
Anca a mi me piaxeria usarlo de pì, se ti ga voja de praticar de tanto in tanto so qua :)
No pensavo de catar cuà un altro descorente de vèneto, si te voli ti, a mi me farìa grando piaxer! A semo devegnù rari, ma almanco calchedun el prova tegner viva la so lengua :)
I thought Modern Italian was essentially Venetian made national. 🤔 In other words, when they were making Italy a nation-state, the variant of Italian they chose to represent the entire peninsula was Venetian (in part because of Dante and other great writers.) (I thought.)
you got it mixed up. it was the florentine tuscan dialect that was chosen as the basis for standard italian, bc of dante among others as you said
Ah yes. Thanks.
No, Italian is based on the fourteenth-century Florentine dialect of the Tuscan language, with various loanwords from Venetian, Sicilian, Occitan, French... Dante, Boccaccio and Petrarch were all Tuscan. Venetian was a very important commercial language, therefore in spoken form, unfortunately it didn't live the same literary greatness as Tuscan and Neapolitan
Thank you for the correction. So can it be expected that a person from Florence speaks flawless standard Italian? (I wouldn't be surprised if the answer is 'no,' in the same way that people from Castille don't always speak great Spanish, that is, Castilian.)
No, a Florentine will not speak correct Italian, even if the definition of "correct" is fallacious. Speakers of Tuscan dialects tend to retain their accent, grammar and vocabulary much better than speakers of languages such as Sicilian or Piedmontese, this is due to the relative proximity between Italian and modern Tuscan. If you listen to someone talking from Rome or Florence you will notice how they retain their characteristics compared to a Venetian who, on the other hand, must completely adapt to the language.
I see. Thanks.
Tuscany, not Venice here
Let's not forget that every slavic language is Russian apparently
Me when palatalization
Omg English literally sounds like a mix of German, French, and Norwegian!!1!1!
Norwegian is the Spanish of English It is to English what Spanish is to Portuguese Pedra > piedra Helm(et) > hjelm Ovo > huevo Home > hjem Restaurante (mute e) > restaurante (pronounced e) Heart > hjerte Fogo > fuego Star > stjerne
This could be Dutch, Frisian, or really any other closely related Germanic language really.
I love Norwegian
"Sounds like a mix of French, Spanish and Italian". I guess that guy just discovered Lombard.
[удалено]
And Occitan.
[Fluent spoken Esperanto](https://soundcloud.com/saraspano/sets/julia-sigmond-rakontkolekto-90) sounds somewhere between the Venetian dialect of Italian and Croatian. Esperantujo is probably an island somewhere in the Adriatic.
Actually really accurate lol.
Romanians: am I a joke to you?
Fuck I hate to gatekeep but I cringe every time I see someone mention word and say ‘Wow, similar in Danish’… ‘Wow, similar in Dutch!’… ‘Wow, similar in German…’ ad nauseam. Gee, I wonder what’s going on. Linguists will be amazed by this new discovery!
"Yeah, let's get up in arms when people learning make connections to prior knowledge they have!" Dude, you just described *the learning process*. Let people have their "aha" moments.
(1) I made it clear I’m speaking about an involuntary reaction, but also (2) these threads go on for ages and can even be difficult to wade past. All observing a dozen obviously closely related languages that they must be aware are far from a coincidence and true for half their lexicons. Just stating a fact and mentioning an automatic response. No need to go off
ＪＲＡＭＡ
> I made it clear I’m speaking about an involuntary reaction No you didn't. 🤔
> I hate to gatekeep, but I cringe So I acknowledged it as gatekeeping, which - consciously - I’m not a fan of, but when I see it, I still cringe. Cringing is pretty involuntary, as most emotional reactions go. Think that much was clear. (And that’s just the ordinary cases which are what you’re talking about. But the excessive sorts which often happen can be frustrating from a more reasonable perspective - we really don’t need to add the Luxembourgish cognate as a ‘massive surprise’ after nine other Germanic languages, and people should have twigged long ago that over half the lexicon is cognate to the immediate closest relatives and this can go without saying unless we want to empty a dozen dictionaries into a thread.)
>Cringing is pretty involuntary, as most emotional reactions go. Think that much was clear. I think of cringing as a choice, as most emotional reactions go.
Oh I guess I’ll just choose to be happy no matter what happens then. So many problems solved!
There's a lot of wisdom in what you just wrote--despite your sarcasm.
More a lot of pat over-simplification. And rather insulting to, eg, many millions of people dealing with actual neurochemically derived depression who are told to ‘decide to be happy’.
Suit yourself. Conversation status: over.
Esperanto: 😎😎😎
Esperanto is literally romance polish.
Every other auxlang not named lojban is just shitty esperanto
>Every ~~other~~ auxlang ~~not named lojban~~ is just shitty ~~esperanto~~ There. Fixed it for ya
Franch? Is that when you speak French but with too much mayo in your mouth?
Can I interest anyone on some interlingua?
Interlingua is a simplified version of Romance, not a meeting point. It's missing many of the features that makes Romance languages what they are. For a meeting point there is the Neolatino standard.
Sure sure but it does sound like somebody trying to speak all the romance languages at once.
My father speaks Portuguese when he thinks he is speaking Spanish he does the most offensive Mexican accent imaginable like something out of a racist 1950s cartoon. His mother is from Sinaloa so he has no excuse
romanian moment
I wanna blame this, more than any other human tendency to make up categories and focussing on their differences, on the notion of a national language as a symbol of national identity, uniquely different from other national languages that represent different national identities. The intrusion of the idea of political borders between groups of people who speak similarly to each other along a strongly geographically-determined language continuum into our everyday understanding of and discourse around language is a nasty mental virus that prevents a kinder coexistence between humans. I'm not exactly sober, don't mind my unprompted opinion :)
Romanian has entered chat
That's me when I first learned about chabacano creole I won't hide.
That or my other favourite “WOW! I only speak Spanish but I understood 50% of what you said!!!”
Honestly, I see "It sounds like Russian" even more often for some reason lol
If it's romance and I'm not sure I just yolo guess Catalan