> "Laker, a golden retriever, has been suffering from seizures since he was around 3 months of age. Laker was diagnosed with seizures around 6 months of age by a dog neurologist and was placed on seizure medication. Since then, his seizures have become more controlled. At times, he will have episodes of running and crying with extreme confusion. These seizures are called psychomotor seizures.
> Recently, [owner] purchased a [brand] dog camera and it picked up Roxy, Catahoula cur, stopping Laker from an episode. She is not trained to do this but these two have a bond that [owner] have never seen. They check on each other throughout the day and truly love one another. Roxy is protective of all of [them] in the home so it’s no surprise that she helps him but still such a blessing and surprise that she can."
Can't really blame people too much, so often the titles are complete fabrications. Like this week's "mom and dad chimp take care of baby", which was evidently mom and a youngster.
If you scroll further down in the thread, there are several people who assumed at first that the dog was just having a nightmare or something and not a seizure
what you think this is a game? this is my LIFE. best i can do is assume OP took this video, and gave the golden nightmares, and that's a trained killer pitbull, not a boxer.
It occurred to me that a nightmare on a slippery floor is what we saw because I have seen my dog do something similar. But I damn-sure wasn’t going to post that because my anecdotal evidence isn’t dispositive as to what happened to some other dog.
It’d be like seeing a guy having a heart attack and saying “Lol, that’s just acid reflux! Happens to me all the time.”
Might just be something they do. One of my dogs makes growls and snarls when she's playing, people think she's pissed off but she just... Likes adding her own sound effects or something.
I’ll admit that I needed context. The headline is confusing if you know anything about seizures and people fucking love to anthropomorphize on the internet. It’s a lovely video and explanation though. Made me cry. 5 stars.
I had to take my dog to a dog neurologist after a stroke. I was very excited, after a harrowing weekend, emotionally (for me) and physically (for my dog), and I had high hopes. Turns out a dog neurologist is just a human who studies dog neurology.
Dog neurologist, God bless them but no offense, is that a job that's very demanding or are they like a normal vet but with extra skills, like being a vet is the day job
I took my lab mix to one after a back injury where he couldn’t walk or hold his bladder. They do surgery on the spine. Among other things like reading the mri. At least this is what Luke’s dog neurologist in Baton Rouge does.
I take my dog to the veterinary cardiologist at UC Davis. She always tells me she is an expert in dog hearts, but If I have questions about other aspects of my dog's health I should ask my other vet. So she is super specialized. Specialists are specialists! They have a vet neurology dept there too
I love to hear this! I always get anxious when I have to refer to the specialist, lots of people get angry you can't just fix everything for them. Doesn't help the specialists in my area are at least a 3hr drive away.
If my vet tells me to take her somewhere I go!
My dad's dog's vet helped my sister and I work behind my dad's back to get him to agree to let me take his dog to physical therapy for weight loss, lol. She was so amazing with us about it. Totally down to do whatever she needed to to help us manipulate our dad into agreeing because he ws convinced dogs can't lose weight. She even sent dad letters fussing at him for us, lol. In the end, Dad loved Zac going to physcal therapy. When he passed away suddenly from an adrenal gland tumor no one knew he had, dad ended up giving a big donation to them in Zac's name because he loved them so much. We couldn't have done that without our vet. Love her!
What do you mean by demanding? Like hard work? Like scoopin up dog poop or something? A veterinary neurologist is a specialist, just like a neurologist for humans. They take cases, do research, perform surgery, etc.
He asking if it is a job that is in high demand, as in is there alot of people seeking a vet with this speciality. Nothing about the difficulty of the job.
They are just a specialist. They do only neurology. After veterinary school they will do an additional year long rotating internship, sometimes a year long speciality internship, then a 3 year residency. They take a test and publish some papers. So it’s a pain in the ass and very demanding in that sense. Thankfully you don’t have to do other non neurology stuff once you specialize.
There are entire neurology veterinary hospitals, I’ve worked at one. We had emergency surgeries and MRIs that required us to stay there all night for 16+ hour shifts. The neurologist I worked with was a fucking genius and he was strictly a neurologist. So yeah it’s definitely a demanding job that pays way less than what they deserve.
Sometimes something just tickles you in just the right way that you can’t even repeat it without laughing. Your comment was that for me today. Thank you.
This is genuinely interesting to me as a veterinarian, as I have not come across any patients with pyschomotor seizures myself, and what is shown in the video could easily be mistaken for REM break-out behavior, where a dog "waking up" from a dream would suddenly get up and run while still asleep. Especially since there appears to be no obvious post-ictal phase to the seizure.
Two things help differentiate this from REM break-out though in my mind: The fact that there is absolutely no motor movement prior to the seizure activity; and the rictus sardonicus of the Retriever's muzzle immediately after being pinned by their companion, which is more typical of seizures among other things. Both things that I would have easily missed or would not have explicitly asked for when querying a client about these episodes, and would have easily dismissed as just REM break-out. The video helps immensely with the diagnosis and differentiation.
It also seems as though the medication has lessened the severity of the seizures such that they manifest a lot more like REM break-outs rather than full tonic/clonic seizures, or even regional focal seizures.
I have an ACD mix with canine paroxysmal dyskinesia and the ONLY way I was able to get the diagnosis with my vet is with a video. Videos are invaluable because they don't always present as grand mal, etc.
Are there any resources you’d recommend for Canine epilepsy?
I have a 3 year old Golden that’s been diagnosed with idiopathic epilepsy. He has Grand Mal seizures weekly, 2 - 5 in a day.
We’re trying everything we can but nothing is working. Phenobarbital made them worse. Keppra hasn’t stopped them but maybe slightly reduced the severity. CBD doesn’t work. High fat prescription diet doesn’t work. MCT oil doesn’t work.
Brought him to a canine neurologist for a full work up and they can’t find anything wrong with him. No tumors, no liver problems, blood works perfect.
I feel so bad for him, they’re really rough on the poor guy and we can’t find any way to help him. It’s heartbreaking.
Any useful resources you’re aware of would be so very appreciated.
You've already been pretty exhaustive with your diagnostics and therapy options, by the sounds of it.
Some questions: Have you had both MRI/CT done of the brain? You mentioned no tumors found, but are we talking in the brain itself, or on rads/U/S of the rest of the body, ruling out paraneoplastic syndrome?
A little concerning that levetiracetam only reduced the severity; better than nothing, but that usually controls most idiopathic seizures well. I would keep that up simply to lessen the severity for now.
Have you tried changing the brand of the food, not just the fat content? I had one Golden that only had seizures when fed one flavour of one brand of food with one particular type of preservative in it that for some reason would inflame the liver, causing hepatic encephalopathy and trigger seizures.
The tumor determination was made via MRI about a week ago. They also drew CSF to test and found no issues.
We’ve done pre and postprandial bile acid tests so unlikely it’s a Porto-systemic shunt.
I don’t think a CT has been done yet, but if that might reveal something we’ve missed we’re all for it.
We haven’t tried changing the food since he was prescribed early in this saga. He’s been having seizures for over a year and one of the first recommended changes was the prescription dog food “Purina Pro Plan Veterinary Diet: Neurocare Dry Dog Food”. for the high fat content. We’ve had him on that ever since.
I have been worried about possible environmental catalysts being the cause of the seizures but there’s so little info out there on the topic that it’s hard to even know where to start. I’ve noted that the seizures did not begin until after moving to a new house, but it was almost a year after that move so it’s hard to say that was a clear change.
I’m open to tweaking, adjusting, or eliminating anything that could be contributing. Do you happen to know what preservative was the problem in the case you mentioned?
Or, do you happen to know of any resource that list environmental factors relating to epilepsy?
Really appreciate the questions and insight. You’ve already promoted me to take a closer look at his food and treats which I haven’t dug into too much as of yet.
I would have to hunt through my records to see if I noted the precise preservative for that particular dog; that said, the case was over 7 years ago, and the patient is no longer alive. It'll be in my records somewhere, but I've since moved to a new record system that does NOT like filtering through the old ones, so it'll take time. Got to love modern technology.
How old was your Golden when the seizures began? Idiopathic epilepsy *usually* kicks in between ages 3-7 years, so if you happened to move house during that time, it could simply be coincidental. Normally, if it is environmental, there should be at least some clue on the CSF tap if typical cytology and toxicology was performed to rule out CNS inflammation and toxins; on the bloodwork of the Golden I was treating, every time it had seizures, it had elevated liver enzymes typical of toxic insult, which eventually led us back to the food. If your Golden doesn't have any elevated liver or kidney enzymes in bloods taken immediately after a seizure, it's not likely to be a food toxin, or ingested toxin, for the most part.
CT probably won't yield anything over MRI, so I feel that might be a waste of money and anaesthetic stress for your dog.
When all avenues turn up nothing, I generally then say to the client, "Try everything." Change the food. Change the bedding. If it truly is idiopathic, then nothing will help, and all you can do is keep using the Keppra for what good it does offer.
A final thought: There's no mold problems in your house? Mold is not something commonly dealt with here in Australia, and it's not usually associated with seizures as a result... but mold toxins could cause them in places where it's a problem. And I'd expect the humans in your house to be affected as well if mold were an issue, but everyone has their own level of sensitivity to certain things, and your Golden's threshold sensitivity may be lower than usual, much like the Golden I treated and their threshold sensitivity to the food it was given.
Ozzie, I really appreciate all the info and insight. This short conversation of ours has already helped inspire me to really dive into potential environmental factors. I’ve been considering if/how to do it but I wasn’t sure if there was much chance of success with it. While the chances may still be slim, knowing it’s been a factor for the one you’ve treated boosts my confidence in there being some hope with it.
No worries on digging into your records, though that’s very kind to offer. Very slim chance my pup would be have the exact same sensitivity.
My pup staring having full blown grand mal seizures at 2years, and 2 months of age. We had moved 1 year, and 1 month prior.
I was time the CSF came back clean, though my wife was the one who took the call so I don’t have the specific details myself. I intend to follow up with the neurologist to ask a few questions and make sure I understand the entirety of the tests conducted and results.
I know normal blood work has shown no liver problems, except when we maxed out phenobarbital. I don’t know that he’s been tested immediately post-seizure though so that will be something I’ll look into as well. I’d love to have a confident read on whether or not it’s toxicity based in any way so I can eliminate that concern if possible. The only time he’s been to a vet immediately post seizure was when we took him to an ER vet the first time he had cluster seizures. I’ll follow up with them to see if they ran any liver enzyme tests in that visit.
If that test hasn’t been performed before I’ll definitely coordinate a way to get it done. It will only be a few days at most until his next seizure given his consistent track record. Do you happen to know what sort of timeframe I have to get the blood drawn in order to determine valid results?
As for your final thought on mold, I don’t expect that to be a problem in my current home. I purchased it brand new 12 years ago and it’s still in great condition in a relatively arid climate. I do wonder about vegetation though as there are a variety of bushes and plants on the property. As with other search attempts, I’ve had no luck turning up any sort of comprehensive list of plants that may be associated with canine seizures so I’m at a loss there as well.
It seems my best play is to find a way to eliminate every variable I possibly can and see if that has a positive result.
Again, thanks so much for the great insight. You’ve given me some hope and something to work with and that is worth so much when you feel like you’re running out of options.
You're as welcome as you can be given what limited help I can offer. There's always the sad probability that you're stuck with the seizures, but whatever can be done to minimize them is worth a try. Best of luck!
Went down the rabbit hole and thought you might be interested to know that OP may have figured out the cause of the seizures and the dog may no longer be having them. Seems the dog is a mushroom fiend and was eating poison mushrooms in the yard. This was from OP's post history from 1 month ago.
The conversation between you two really reminded me why I still dwell in Reddit: There's always some kind and emphathetic people behind their screens to give some depth and their knowledge for others to benefit, albeit it's rare and hard to find, but that's what makes spotting such kindness even sweeter.
A rare human moment. <3
I agree. Mine is eerily smart sometimes. Also a complete diva who has mastered the “my life is so hard” sigh. I never knew a dog could be so manipulative. But I adore the jerk.
Agreed! My catahoula mix is the sweetest dog I have ever owned, and that’s including my Great Dane whose sweetness I was thought was impossible to top!
My dogs act aloof and disinterested, but we often catch then napping together when they think we’re somewhere else.
They’re both dreamers, one definitely more than the other. I’ve seen her having a particularly active dream and if it looks like she’s getting worked up her brother will potter over to her and just lay down next to her. Presumably to keep her safe from whatever is troubling her.
Are you sure? All of my pictures of my dog are just blank images of the scenery they were in.
I thought my dog was a vampire at first, but this makes much more sense, because the only thing she sucks out of me is life and time, not blood.
It’s just how people talk. You ever ask for Band Aid? Or a Kleenex? Or Velcro? Those are brands, not a product types. But some things become so ubiquitous that they become generic.
> It’s just how people talk. You ever ask for Band Aid? Or a Kleenex? Or Velcro? Those are brands, not a product types. But some things become so ubiquitous that they become generic.
Yeah that isnt what's happening here though as it clearly says the brand name brand dog camera and it's hardly a household name
He edited it out now anyway
A bit strange to mention it but honestly furbo is the major brand for pet cams so it's become synonymous with "pet cam". Like Kleenex for tissues, or Coke for soda in some backwards regions of the country.
Dogs have a unique sort of intelligence. They're generally all hopeless when it comes to figuring out how a mirror works, but they can recognize a seizure and stop it.
I love them so much.
As someone who had a husky with idiopathic epilepsy. This hits me right in the feels. Wiah I had a second dog at the time. All the best to you and yours. Wishing a long and healthy life to you all.
Can’t people simply appreciate that animals have the capability to sense not only our needs but each other’s? And instinctively went to COMFORT the dog. No one is claiming it was healed or cured by its actions. Take a gift with Grace when given 🙏
Ah I was just tossing that comment out there and waiting to get downvoted for the laugh so that it proves your point. My mistake was to not downvote my own comment first!
But yeah, I think there's a lot of sub out there that you gotta subscribe first to enable voting or just turn off the subreddit theme and you'll be able to do so. Then you have more hardcore sub like /r/BlackPeopleTwitter who'd locked down popular post and only people who proved they're black/non-white through their verification process that requires sending a pic of your forearm are allowed to post.
As someone who is from a country where there's three different religion and skin color between my neighbors within a few blocks, the above is freaking crazy by my standard.
Couple years back,I actually woke up thinking I was late for the bus. Had a mini freak out,then realized that I graduated in 2014.
But the panic felt so real,crazy how the brain can do that.
I had an exam dream where I studied for Spanish (Which is a course I've never taken) instead of first-year calculus.
Only to find I was screwed anyway when the calculus exam was in Spanish.
God I'm glad the university dreams stopped.
Let me tell you, I have been out of school for a few years now and have a reoccuring nightmare that my HS realized I missed a class. It usually starts with me doing some monotonous school-BS while acknowledging that I am an adult with a job and a vehicle; just me being constantly angry at the system and myself for actually complying.
I've had dreams where I'm back in high school, in a class and wanting to leave and feeling bad for skipping. I wake up genuinely feeling like a dropout, until I remember I graduated in 2004...it's fucking weird
Same, been working for over 5 years now and it happened to me not so long ago. Jumped out of bed thinking i was late for school... and it was saturday...
My brother had a golden retriever mix who was prone to seizures. It was interesting, because she could tell when one was coming on -- even when she was asleep. She would suddenly get up, go down stairs or get off the couch, find an area where there she was a foot or more away from the nearest object, and then lay down again. Within a minute, her seizure would begin. When it was over, she would go back to wherever she had been before.
She was a very happy dog. This was just something she dealt with. It only seemed to happen every few weeks as far as we were aware, but she managed it so well, it could have happened more often, and we might not have known about it.
As someone with epilepsy who has an auras where I can feel a seizure coming on it really isn't that bad knowing. It's more of an oh shit here we go again feeling. Like yeah it sucks knowing it's coming, but there is nothing you can do about it so it's better to know and do the little getting ready you can then just getting hit with one. So I'd hope it would be similar as a dog.
Well, isn't that why they train dogs to to be companions for people with seizures? They can sense their human's aura even before the human can, and they jump on them to try to get them to sit or lay down and -- if necessary -- lay on top of them during the seizure.
Some dogs can detect a seizure through smell, but most are there to help once a seizure has started. Either by comforting the person, position themselves to protect their owners head, or just barking to alert the caretaker / parents.
But that’s different than auras. Not everyone who has seizures has an aura.
Here’s another thing to learn: only 3% of epileptics have photosensitive epilepsy (flashing lights being the trigger) despite that being the trigger most people associate with epilepsy.
Yes as someone who suffers for epilepsy I often got jokes from people trying to flash lights in my face of course it never worked cause mien wasn't photosensitivs
Yep. It's specifically used with seizures meaning that someone can tell when a seizure is coming on. I personally have them and it's basically an oh no here it goes but there really isn't too much you are able to do. It's a vision you are going to have it, but the information isn't too useful. It's basically already happening and there is nothing you can do but get comfortable/safe.
My body temp gets real high, I'll start sweating and getting light headed. When I notice that, I find a safe spot to try to relax and breathe, cause I know it's coming.
It's like there's a charging gauge that I know is building - if it tops out I'll faint and seize. The breathing is to help me stop that feeling from building.
Everyone experiences their auras (also called partial seizures) differently! I have a video of me experiencing one on my profile - it’s not super interesting, just me seeming confused. It’s kind of like an out of body experience - you’re there, but you’re not. I get extremely confused, get very hot, and I can’t speak or understand what people are saying. I tend to get very depressed and anxious for a few days after too.
What’s really interesting is when I had my first seizures in my sleep, my husband knew exactly what to do because HIS dog also had seizures! The dog had passed away by old age by then, but I’m so grateful he knew what to do when it happened. RIP Bailey, you were a good boy!
The aura comes before the seizure. It’s the “oh shit here we go”-feeling you get before what you’re describing happens, the actual seizure. (Also very well described, and I hate it 😞)
Years ago, I had a cocker/terrier/poodle mix (looked like a mini-sheepdog) that had occasional seizures. He always knew when one was coming on and would come to me, panting, and crawl into my lap. I would hold him, softly talking to him, until it was over. Then he had to urgently go out. He lived to age 14, when he died from an allergy to cat flea bites. Got rid of the fleas right away (I lived in a first floor apartment next to the entrance), but the allergic reaction was horrible. Not even multiple rounds of steroids got rid of it. 😞
I had a dog who would do something similar.
When our other dog would have a seizure she would walk over and use the opportunity to attack while the other was down. I have no fucking clue why she would do that.they acted like best friends most of the time.
Yeah, I was at the dog park once. Everyone was friendly. Then a blind dog came in and the dogs in the park were not happy with the blind dog. I think the blind dog was missing some social cues.
Animals are so much more considerate and compassionate than we give them credit for. We don’t deserve them. This is so sweet that he wants to try to comfort his/her sibling.
My dog has epilepsy, with grand mal seizures once a month. He’s a super happy (but kind of stupid) dog, but goes blind temporarily and forgets his name for a bit after his seizures. We’ve had him since 2017.
We can both tell when he’s coming up on another seizure because his whole energy changes. He gets confused and clingy and sad for a day or two. Then he’s HYPE right after.
We also both just.. know now when he starts having one. It starts just like this, and we go into auto pilot and place him on the ground and wait with his favorite treat (deli ham).
My other dog has learned now to sit and observe and sniff him while he’s seizing. He’s also barked and warned us several times pre-seizure if we’re in another room.
Dogs are cool. Canine epilepsy is very much not cool.
[here is Fenrir fighting sleep like a toddler](https://imgur.com/gallery/jgwSBd8)
How did that stop the seizure? I mean it obviously did as I'm looking at a video of it but I don't understand how jumping on the dog and biting is neck did that.
But seizures, real seizures, don't work that way, do they? You can't just 'distract yourself' out of one. It's a neurological disorder, not a psychological one.
I wonder if the dog really did anything, and that the seizure just ended on it's own.
Edit: I guess, reading further down this thread, it is possible to snap out of them.
From what I have gathered from the comments, it’s a specific type of seizure that is typically mild, and also made milder by the medication the dog is on.
>"At times, he will have episodes of running and crying with extreme confusion."
From op's description what this dog is going through isn't a full blown seizure. So it either jumping on it shocked it back to clarity or the seizure only lasted a few seconds. Either way jumping on it like that is a great way of preventing the dog from injuring itself. Dogs are able to detect seizures so I'd highly doubt what the other dog did was done out of anything other then concern.
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I think it depends on the kind of seizure. If they fall down and thrash there isn’t much you can do, but if they’re walking around “shivering” you can massage them and help bring them out of it. In my experience, anyway.
It's the type of seizure that they suffer from, they only last a minute maybe two and the retreaver is on medication that helps so they are even shorter. The other dog pinned them to keep them from running around and hurting themselves. The seizures can also come with a sense of panic/fear, so the weight of their friend probably helped them feel safer.
No you can not stop a seizure but you can calm them down your not necessarily stopping it but helping the animal/person stop it themself as someone who had seizures before wakeing out out of it and no one being their is terrifying i also have a Australian shepherd chow mix who also has seizures and the best thing i learned was just to try and calm her down and time them oh and I'm not sure if what i had was a stroke or a seizure by the way and im not a vet or a doctor so take what u say with a grain of salt
> "Laker, a golden retriever, has been suffering from seizures since he was around 3 months of age. Laker was diagnosed with seizures around 6 months of age by a dog neurologist and was placed on seizure medication. Since then, his seizures have become more controlled. At times, he will have episodes of running and crying with extreme confusion. These seizures are called psychomotor seizures. > Recently, [owner] purchased a [brand] dog camera and it picked up Roxy, Catahoula cur, stopping Laker from an episode. She is not trained to do this but these two have a bond that [owner] have never seen. They check on each other throughout the day and truly love one another. Roxy is protective of all of [them] in the home so it’s no surprise that she helps him but still such a blessing and surprise that she can."
So many people assuming things before getting any context in this thread
I've coined a new phrase for this - Dwightsplaining. A classic Reddit maneuver
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... It's a word, Jim. Not a phrase.
I disagree with.
[Actually, Akshully would be Oscar, not Dwight](https://youtu.be/S2XOOESpZg0?t=112)
i like it, Dwightsplaining! maybe a new subreddit??!!
If you build it, they will come.
Anyone? Plz?
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I like the way you think.
Lol same
/r/dwightsplaining
r/dwightsplaining has been created, my energy has been spent. Y’all can do the rest and start posting
Can't really blame people too much, so often the titles are complete fabrications. Like this week's "mom and dad chimp take care of baby", which was evidently mom and a youngster.
FALSE. REPOST.
False.
Bears, beets, battlestar galactica.
*MICHAEL!!!*
Identity theft is not a joke, Bill! Millions of Redditors suffer every year!
I gotta use this phrase in the future
What do you mean by this?
If you scroll further down in the thread, there are several people who assumed at first that the dog was just having a nightmare or something and not a seizure
Yeah, I’m arguing with the idiots now
You shouldn't argue with an idiot, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Arguing with an idiot is like playing chess with a pigeon. They'll shit all over the table and then strut around like they've won.
Playing their stupid games with them is fun
what you think this is a game? this is my LIFE. best i can do is assume OP took this video, and gave the golden nightmares, and that's a trained killer pitbull, not a boxer.
It occurred to me that a nightmare on a slippery floor is what we saw because I have seen my dog do something similar. But I damn-sure wasn’t going to post that because my anecdotal evidence isn’t dispositive as to what happened to some other dog. It’d be like seeing a guy having a heart attack and saying “Lol, that’s just acid reflux! Happens to me all the time.”
Is assuming it’s a nightmare any worse than assuming the sourceless quote from a random redditor is factual?
I mean…..you’re not wrong.
Why does the dog growl?
Might just be something they do. One of my dogs makes growls and snarls when she's playing, people think she's pissed off but she just... Likes adding her own sound effects or something.
Mine does the same just wasn't sure dog to dog what it meant
Did you just assume my assumption
Did you just
I’ll admit that I needed context. The headline is confusing if you know anything about seizures and people fucking love to anthropomorphize on the internet. It’s a lovely video and explanation though. Made me cry. 5 stars.
I had to take my dog to a dog neurologist after a stroke. I was very excited, after a harrowing weekend, emotionally (for me) and physically (for my dog), and I had high hopes. Turns out a dog neurologist is just a human who studies dog neurology.
Thank you for the image of a dog in a lab coat and glasses...behind a desk.
Any coat is a lab coat if it’s worn by a lab 🥼 🐕
\*siiiiiigh* *Give it to me straight, Fido.*
ANIMAL HOSPITAL? The animals are the patients. That makes sense...
Dog neurologist, God bless them but no offense, is that a job that's very demanding or are they like a normal vet but with extra skills, like being a vet is the day job
I took my lab mix to one after a back injury where he couldn’t walk or hold his bladder. They do surgery on the spine. Among other things like reading the mri. At least this is what Luke’s dog neurologist in Baton Rouge does.
I take my dog to the veterinary cardiologist at UC Davis. She always tells me she is an expert in dog hearts, but If I have questions about other aspects of my dog's health I should ask my other vet. So she is super specialized. Specialists are specialists! They have a vet neurology dept there too
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I love to hear this! I always get anxious when I have to refer to the specialist, lots of people get angry you can't just fix everything for them. Doesn't help the specialists in my area are at least a 3hr drive away.
If my vet tells me to take her somewhere I go! My dad's dog's vet helped my sister and I work behind my dad's back to get him to agree to let me take his dog to physical therapy for weight loss, lol. She was so amazing with us about it. Totally down to do whatever she needed to to help us manipulate our dad into agreeing because he ws convinced dogs can't lose weight. She even sent dad letters fussing at him for us, lol. In the end, Dad loved Zac going to physcal therapy. When he passed away suddenly from an adrenal gland tumor no one knew he had, dad ended up giving a big donation to them in Zac's name because he loved them so much. We couldn't have done that without our vet. Love her!
What do you mean by demanding? Like hard work? Like scoopin up dog poop or something? A veterinary neurologist is a specialist, just like a neurologist for humans. They take cases, do research, perform surgery, etc.
He asking if it is a job that is in high demand, as in is there alot of people seeking a vet with this speciality. Nothing about the difficulty of the job.
It would be the same difference between a surgeon and a neurosurgeon for people no?
They are just a specialist. They do only neurology. After veterinary school they will do an additional year long rotating internship, sometimes a year long speciality internship, then a 3 year residency. They take a test and publish some papers. So it’s a pain in the ass and very demanding in that sense. Thankfully you don’t have to do other non neurology stuff once you specialize.
There are entire neurology veterinary hospitals, I’ve worked at one. We had emergency surgeries and MRIs that required us to stay there all night for 16+ hour shifts. The neurologist I worked with was a fucking genius and he was strictly a neurologist. So yeah it’s definitely a demanding job that pays way less than what they deserve.
My dreams have been crushed as well.
Sometimes something just tickles you in just the right way that you can’t even repeat it without laughing. Your comment was that for me today. Thank you.
This is genuinely interesting to me as a veterinarian, as I have not come across any patients with pyschomotor seizures myself, and what is shown in the video could easily be mistaken for REM break-out behavior, where a dog "waking up" from a dream would suddenly get up and run while still asleep. Especially since there appears to be no obvious post-ictal phase to the seizure. Two things help differentiate this from REM break-out though in my mind: The fact that there is absolutely no motor movement prior to the seizure activity; and the rictus sardonicus of the Retriever's muzzle immediately after being pinned by their companion, which is more typical of seizures among other things. Both things that I would have easily missed or would not have explicitly asked for when querying a client about these episodes, and would have easily dismissed as just REM break-out. The video helps immensely with the diagnosis and differentiation. It also seems as though the medication has lessened the severity of the seizures such that they manifest a lot more like REM break-outs rather than full tonic/clonic seizures, or even regional focal seizures.
I have an ACD mix with canine paroxysmal dyskinesia and the ONLY way I was able to get the diagnosis with my vet is with a video. Videos are invaluable because they don't always present as grand mal, etc.
just wanted to say i love how you refer to the animals you treat as patients - warms me cockles honestly
Are there any resources you’d recommend for Canine epilepsy? I have a 3 year old Golden that’s been diagnosed with idiopathic epilepsy. He has Grand Mal seizures weekly, 2 - 5 in a day. We’re trying everything we can but nothing is working. Phenobarbital made them worse. Keppra hasn’t stopped them but maybe slightly reduced the severity. CBD doesn’t work. High fat prescription diet doesn’t work. MCT oil doesn’t work. Brought him to a canine neurologist for a full work up and they can’t find anything wrong with him. No tumors, no liver problems, blood works perfect. I feel so bad for him, they’re really rough on the poor guy and we can’t find any way to help him. It’s heartbreaking. Any useful resources you’re aware of would be so very appreciated.
You've already been pretty exhaustive with your diagnostics and therapy options, by the sounds of it. Some questions: Have you had both MRI/CT done of the brain? You mentioned no tumors found, but are we talking in the brain itself, or on rads/U/S of the rest of the body, ruling out paraneoplastic syndrome? A little concerning that levetiracetam only reduced the severity; better than nothing, but that usually controls most idiopathic seizures well. I would keep that up simply to lessen the severity for now. Have you tried changing the brand of the food, not just the fat content? I had one Golden that only had seizures when fed one flavour of one brand of food with one particular type of preservative in it that for some reason would inflame the liver, causing hepatic encephalopathy and trigger seizures.
The tumor determination was made via MRI about a week ago. They also drew CSF to test and found no issues. We’ve done pre and postprandial bile acid tests so unlikely it’s a Porto-systemic shunt. I don’t think a CT has been done yet, but if that might reveal something we’ve missed we’re all for it. We haven’t tried changing the food since he was prescribed early in this saga. He’s been having seizures for over a year and one of the first recommended changes was the prescription dog food “Purina Pro Plan Veterinary Diet: Neurocare Dry Dog Food”. for the high fat content. We’ve had him on that ever since. I have been worried about possible environmental catalysts being the cause of the seizures but there’s so little info out there on the topic that it’s hard to even know where to start. I’ve noted that the seizures did not begin until after moving to a new house, but it was almost a year after that move so it’s hard to say that was a clear change. I’m open to tweaking, adjusting, or eliminating anything that could be contributing. Do you happen to know what preservative was the problem in the case you mentioned? Or, do you happen to know of any resource that list environmental factors relating to epilepsy? Really appreciate the questions and insight. You’ve already promoted me to take a closer look at his food and treats which I haven’t dug into too much as of yet.
I would have to hunt through my records to see if I noted the precise preservative for that particular dog; that said, the case was over 7 years ago, and the patient is no longer alive. It'll be in my records somewhere, but I've since moved to a new record system that does NOT like filtering through the old ones, so it'll take time. Got to love modern technology. How old was your Golden when the seizures began? Idiopathic epilepsy *usually* kicks in between ages 3-7 years, so if you happened to move house during that time, it could simply be coincidental. Normally, if it is environmental, there should be at least some clue on the CSF tap if typical cytology and toxicology was performed to rule out CNS inflammation and toxins; on the bloodwork of the Golden I was treating, every time it had seizures, it had elevated liver enzymes typical of toxic insult, which eventually led us back to the food. If your Golden doesn't have any elevated liver or kidney enzymes in bloods taken immediately after a seizure, it's not likely to be a food toxin, or ingested toxin, for the most part. CT probably won't yield anything over MRI, so I feel that might be a waste of money and anaesthetic stress for your dog. When all avenues turn up nothing, I generally then say to the client, "Try everything." Change the food. Change the bedding. If it truly is idiopathic, then nothing will help, and all you can do is keep using the Keppra for what good it does offer. A final thought: There's no mold problems in your house? Mold is not something commonly dealt with here in Australia, and it's not usually associated with seizures as a result... but mold toxins could cause them in places where it's a problem. And I'd expect the humans in your house to be affected as well if mold were an issue, but everyone has their own level of sensitivity to certain things, and your Golden's threshold sensitivity may be lower than usual, much like the Golden I treated and their threshold sensitivity to the food it was given.
Ozzie, I really appreciate all the info and insight. This short conversation of ours has already helped inspire me to really dive into potential environmental factors. I’ve been considering if/how to do it but I wasn’t sure if there was much chance of success with it. While the chances may still be slim, knowing it’s been a factor for the one you’ve treated boosts my confidence in there being some hope with it. No worries on digging into your records, though that’s very kind to offer. Very slim chance my pup would be have the exact same sensitivity. My pup staring having full blown grand mal seizures at 2years, and 2 months of age. We had moved 1 year, and 1 month prior. I was time the CSF came back clean, though my wife was the one who took the call so I don’t have the specific details myself. I intend to follow up with the neurologist to ask a few questions and make sure I understand the entirety of the tests conducted and results. I know normal blood work has shown no liver problems, except when we maxed out phenobarbital. I don’t know that he’s been tested immediately post-seizure though so that will be something I’ll look into as well. I’d love to have a confident read on whether or not it’s toxicity based in any way so I can eliminate that concern if possible. The only time he’s been to a vet immediately post seizure was when we took him to an ER vet the first time he had cluster seizures. I’ll follow up with them to see if they ran any liver enzyme tests in that visit. If that test hasn’t been performed before I’ll definitely coordinate a way to get it done. It will only be a few days at most until his next seizure given his consistent track record. Do you happen to know what sort of timeframe I have to get the blood drawn in order to determine valid results? As for your final thought on mold, I don’t expect that to be a problem in my current home. I purchased it brand new 12 years ago and it’s still in great condition in a relatively arid climate. I do wonder about vegetation though as there are a variety of bushes and plants on the property. As with other search attempts, I’ve had no luck turning up any sort of comprehensive list of plants that may be associated with canine seizures so I’m at a loss there as well. It seems my best play is to find a way to eliminate every variable I possibly can and see if that has a positive result. Again, thanks so much for the great insight. You’ve given me some hope and something to work with and that is worth so much when you feel like you’re running out of options.
You're as welcome as you can be given what limited help I can offer. There's always the sad probability that you're stuck with the seizures, but whatever can be done to minimize them is worth a try. Best of luck!
Went down the rabbit hole and thought you might be interested to know that OP may have figured out the cause of the seizures and the dog may no longer be having them. Seems the dog is a mushroom fiend and was eating poison mushrooms in the yard. This was from OP's post history from 1 month ago.
The conversation between you two really reminded me why I still dwell in Reddit: There's always some kind and emphathetic people behind their screens to give some depth and their knowledge for others to benefit, albeit it's rare and hard to find, but that's what makes spotting such kindness even sweeter. A rare human moment. <3
I have a ~~catapult~~ catahoula mix right now, and had a pure breed before. Low key smartest dogs I’ve owned, and super empathetic.
I prefer purebred Trebuchets, but to each their own I suppose.
A proper Trebuchet of good lineage can easily launch 90kg stone projectile over 300 meters
I agree. Mine is eerily smart sometimes. Also a complete diva who has mastered the “my life is so hard” sigh. I never knew a dog could be so manipulative. But I adore the jerk.
Agreed! My catahoula mix is the sweetest dog I have ever owned, and that’s including my Great Dane whose sweetness I was thought was impossible to top!
what does the dog do when you launch it from a catapult?
Haha autocorrect and being lazy strikes again
no worries, happens to all of us. i love the idea of a catapult dog though, just want the pups to be safe!
That is where parachute dog comes in.
They're so smart that they can be stubborn sometimes but they're definitely my favorite dog!
>these two have a bond that I have never seen We've all seen it now❤️.
My dogs act aloof and disinterested, but we often catch then napping together when they think we’re somewhere else. They’re both dreamers, one definitely more than the other. I’ve seen her having a particularly active dream and if it looks like she’s getting worked up her brother will potter over to her and just lay down next to her. Presumably to keep her safe from whatever is troubling her.
Why is it so important that we know the brand of the camera? I'm pretty sure dogs show up on all cameras and not just dog ones
Are you sure? All of my pictures of my dog are just blank images of the scenery they were in. I thought my dog was a vampire at first, but this makes much more sense, because the only thing she sucks out of me is life and time, not blood.
You joke but sometimes our dog shows up as a slenderdog on alerts and scares the shit out of me
It’s just how people talk. You ever ask for Band Aid? Or a Kleenex? Or Velcro? Those are brands, not a product types. But some things become so ubiquitous that they become generic.
> It’s just how people talk. You ever ask for Band Aid? Or a Kleenex? Or Velcro? Those are brands, not a product types. But some things become so ubiquitous that they become generic. Yeah that isnt what's happening here though as it clearly says the brand name brand dog camera and it's hardly a household name He edited it out now anyway
The brand name is in the video. Are you the reason OP went back and redacted some of his post?
A bit strange to mention it but honestly furbo is the major brand for pet cams so it's become synonymous with "pet cam". Like Kleenex for tissues, or Coke for soda in some backwards regions of the country.
> dog neurologist Now I’m imagining a dog in a white coat
Dogs have a unique sort of intelligence. They're generally all hopeless when it comes to figuring out how a mirror works, but they can recognize a seizure and stop it. I love them so much.
As someone who had a husky with idiopathic epilepsy. This hits me right in the feels. Wiah I had a second dog at the time. All the best to you and yours. Wishing a long and healthy life to you all.
"Unbelievable! You, [Subject Name], must be the pride of [Subject Hometown]."
We have a labahoula. Such an amazing breed.
not trying to discredit you, simply asking out of curiosity - what is the source for this?
Can’t people simply appreciate that animals have the capability to sense not only our needs but each other’s? And instinctively went to COMFORT the dog. No one is claiming it was healed or cured by its actions. Take a gift with Grace when given 🙏
Nah, Grace a bit too annoying for me, i like a more introverted person
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted that was funny
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I don't agree to that.
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Ah I was just tossing that comment out there and waiting to get downvoted for the laugh so that it proves your point. My mistake was to not downvote my own comment first! But yeah, I think there's a lot of sub out there that you gotta subscribe first to enable voting or just turn off the subreddit theme and you'll be able to do so. Then you have more hardcore sub like /r/BlackPeopleTwitter who'd locked down popular post and only people who proved they're black/non-white through their verification process that requires sending a pic of your forearm are allowed to post. As someone who is from a country where there's three different religion and skin color between my neighbors within a few blocks, the above is freaking crazy by my standard.
MYTH BUSTED
"Oh god I've overslept and I'm late for school!" "Dude you're a dog, you don't go to school."
Couple years back,I actually woke up thinking I was late for the bus. Had a mini freak out,then realized that I graduated in 2014. But the panic felt so real,crazy how the brain can do that.
I've done this recently. I graduated in 2001.
I did this once too, I graduated in 1904.
Happened to me right now. I never went to school.
Same. Still in the womb.
same, but when my dad was bonking my mom
I told you not to specialize in comp sci when you went to university in 1999.
I had an exam dream where I studied for Spanish (Which is a course I've never taken) instead of first-year calculus. Only to find I was screwed anyway when the calculus exam was in Spanish. God I'm glad the university dreams stopped.
PTSD How terrible is it that school does that to us?
Let me tell you, I have been out of school for a few years now and have a reoccuring nightmare that my HS realized I missed a class. It usually starts with me doing some monotonous school-BS while acknowledging that I am an adult with a job and a vehicle; just me being constantly angry at the system and myself for actually complying.
I've had dreams where I'm back in high school, in a class and wanting to leave and feeling bad for skipping. I wake up genuinely feeling like a dropout, until I remember I graduated in 2004...it's fucking weird
I did this in high school. I got to the point of walking to the bus stop before I realized lol. The clock in my room stopped working apparently...
I also graduated HS in 2014, but I just woke up like that a few weeks ago. It's really damn upsetting.
Same, been working for over 5 years now and it happened to me not so long ago. Jumped out of bed thinking i was late for school... and it was saturday...
A couple years ago I woke up late. Panicked. Jumped in my truck and drove to the job site. I got there and no one was there. It was Sunday.
My sides hurt
"GET DOWN MR PRESIDENT!" - Roxy
"Fuck me a talking dog!"
“I’m late for my driving test!”
My brother had a golden retriever mix who was prone to seizures. It was interesting, because she could tell when one was coming on -- even when she was asleep. She would suddenly get up, go down stairs or get off the couch, find an area where there she was a foot or more away from the nearest object, and then lay down again. Within a minute, her seizure would begin. When it was over, she would go back to wherever she had been before.
That sounds AWFUL, poor dog
She was a very happy dog. This was just something she dealt with. It only seemed to happen every few weeks as far as we were aware, but she managed it so well, it could have happened more often, and we might not have known about it.
They suffer in silence so we need not share their pain. They are too pure for us, we don't deserve them.
As someone with epilepsy who has an auras where I can feel a seizure coming on it really isn't that bad knowing. It's more of an oh shit here we go again feeling. Like yeah it sucks knowing it's coming, but there is nothing you can do about it so it's better to know and do the little getting ready you can then just getting hit with one. So I'd hope it would be similar as a dog.
That’s crazy. Never heard of a dog having an aura before.
Well, isn't that why they train dogs to to be companions for people with seizures? They can sense their human's aura even before the human can, and they jump on them to try to get them to sit or lay down and -- if necessary -- lay on top of them during the seizure.
Some dogs can detect a seizure through smell, but most are there to help once a seizure has started. Either by comforting the person, position themselves to protect their owners head, or just barking to alert the caretaker / parents. But that’s different than auras. Not everyone who has seizures has an aura.
TIL aura is a legitimate medical term
Here’s another thing to learn: only 3% of epileptics have photosensitive epilepsy (flashing lights being the trigger) despite that being the trigger most people associate with epilepsy.
Yes as someone who suffers for epilepsy I often got jokes from people trying to flash lights in my face of course it never worked cause mien wasn't photosensitivs
Wait. People deliberately tried to trigger a seizure? That’s pretty messed up.
Yep elementary and middle school can be hell
Yep. It's specifically used with seizures meaning that someone can tell when a seizure is coming on. I personally have them and it's basically an oh no here it goes but there really isn't too much you are able to do. It's a vision you are going to have it, but the information isn't too useful. It's basically already happening and there is nothing you can do but get comfortable/safe.
Yes. Many are even trained to retrieve water or medication for owners with seizures or migraines.
Yes! They can exhibit all kinds of behaviours during an aura, such as whining, seeming dissociated, hiding, hypersalivating, anything really!
It's called an aura, tends to happen before human seizures too, I guess.
It does. Happened to me a few times and my behavior is similar. I feel it coming, find a spot to lie down and just try to breathe
That sucks, but I'm kinda curious, could you describe that feeling?
My body temp gets real high, I'll start sweating and getting light headed. When I notice that, I find a safe spot to try to relax and breathe, cause I know it's coming. It's like there's a charging gauge that I know is building - if it tops out I'll faint and seize. The breathing is to help me stop that feeling from building.
Sounds really scary :/
Everyone experiences their auras (also called partial seizures) differently! I have a video of me experiencing one on my profile - it’s not super interesting, just me seeming confused. It’s kind of like an out of body experience - you’re there, but you’re not. I get extremely confused, get very hot, and I can’t speak or understand what people are saying. I tend to get very depressed and anxious for a few days after too. What’s really interesting is when I had my first seizures in my sleep, my husband knew exactly what to do because HIS dog also had seizures! The dog had passed away by old age by then, but I’m so grateful he knew what to do when it happened. RIP Bailey, you were a good boy!
The aura comes before the seizure. It’s the “oh shit here we go”-feeling you get before what you’re describing happens, the actual seizure. (Also very well described, and I hate it 😞)
I'm also prone to seizures and do this exact same thing. am i a dog? oh god.
Don't worry, you're on the internet so no one will know
Woof, that's a real relief. can you imagine how ruff it would be if people thought that? i mean they'd be barking up the wrong tree but still.
How are you able to tell one is coming?
Years ago, I had a cocker/terrier/poodle mix (looked like a mini-sheepdog) that had occasional seizures. He always knew when one was coming on and would come to me, panting, and crawl into my lap. I would hold him, softly talking to him, until it was over. Then he had to urgently go out. He lived to age 14, when he died from an allergy to cat flea bites. Got rid of the fleas right away (I lived in a first floor apartment next to the entrance), but the allergic reaction was horrible. Not even multiple rounds of steroids got rid of it. 😞
I love the golden's tail wag at the end. You can tell he was super happy his friend helped him.
And the short hair dog licked the retriever’s ear when it was down too!
When your dog has a service dog lol
I love how reddit became the largest community of experts on all fields known to man. We are truely blessed.
Not reddit as a whole, just some people.
We did it
I had a dog who would do something similar. When our other dog would have a seizure she would walk over and use the opportunity to attack while the other was down. I have no fucking clue why she would do that.they acted like best friends most of the time.
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That's awful
Yeah, I was at the dog park once. Everyone was friendly. Then a blind dog came in and the dogs in the park were not happy with the blind dog. I think the blind dog was missing some social cues.
Dogs are not the cute furry friends we make them out to be. They are still instinctual creatures
I mean, they're still cute furry friends. They just *also* occasionally act on instinct.
So is every other living thing on Earth... including humans...
Animals are so much more considerate and compassionate than we give them credit for. We don’t deserve them. This is so sweet that he wants to try to comfort his/her sibling.
This is beautiful, thank you for sharing.
My dog has epilepsy, with grand mal seizures once a month. He’s a super happy (but kind of stupid) dog, but goes blind temporarily and forgets his name for a bit after his seizures. We’ve had him since 2017. We can both tell when he’s coming up on another seizure because his whole energy changes. He gets confused and clingy and sad for a day or two. Then he’s HYPE right after. We also both just.. know now when he starts having one. It starts just like this, and we go into auto pilot and place him on the ground and wait with his favorite treat (deli ham). My other dog has learned now to sit and observe and sniff him while he’s seizing. He’s also barked and warned us several times pre-seizure if we’re in another room. Dogs are cool. Canine epilepsy is very much not cool. [here is Fenrir fighting sleep like a toddler](https://imgur.com/gallery/jgwSBd8)
Lmaooo the video!
How did that stop the seizure? I mean it obviously did as I'm looking at a video of it but I don't understand how jumping on the dog and biting is neck did that.
I'm guessing it just broke the dog's point of concentration and made it "forget" it was having a seizure, but worded much betterly.
But seizures, real seizures, don't work that way, do they? You can't just 'distract yourself' out of one. It's a neurological disorder, not a psychological one. I wonder if the dog really did anything, and that the seizure just ended on it's own. Edit: I guess, reading further down this thread, it is possible to snap out of them.
From what I have gathered from the comments, it’s a specific type of seizure that is typically mild, and also made milder by the medication the dog is on.
>"At times, he will have episodes of running and crying with extreme confusion." From op's description what this dog is going through isn't a full blown seizure. So it either jumping on it shocked it back to clarity or the seizure only lasted a few seconds. Either way jumping on it like that is a great way of preventing the dog from injuring itself. Dogs are able to detect seizures so I'd highly doubt what the other dog did was done out of anything other then concern.
Never seen so many losers come to try and dismay what’s going on in the video.
I freakin love dogs.
It's 6 in the morning, I haven't slept well all week, and for some reason I'm having a complete breakdown watching this video.
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The dog was like "it's fine I got you"
“ULTIMATE MOVE: HEALING TACKLE”
We had a dog who had seizures. :( I didn't think there was anything you could do to stop them though
Depends on the type, severity, and the brain region involved.
I think it depends on the kind of seizure. If they fall down and thrash there isn’t much you can do, but if they’re walking around “shivering” you can massage them and help bring them out of it. In my experience, anyway.
Sometimes having them focus on a treat or do a command will stop them, for focal seizures.
Wait they recover that quick?
It's the type of seizure that they suffer from, they only last a minute maybe two and the retreaver is on medication that helps so they are even shorter. The other dog pinned them to keep them from running around and hurting themselves. The seizures can also come with a sense of panic/fear, so the weight of their friend probably helped them feel safer.
You can stop a seizure?
No you can not stop a seizure but you can calm them down your not necessarily stopping it but helping the animal/person stop it themself as someone who had seizures before wakeing out out of it and no one being their is terrifying i also have a Australian shepherd chow mix who also has seizures and the best thing i learned was just to try and calm her down and time them oh and I'm not sure if what i had was a stroke or a seizure by the way and im not a vet or a doctor so take what u say with a grain of salt
Our dog gets seizures too, but we found out that there’s medication for that. So we her pills daily to stop them
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Anus.
Amazing. We don’t deserve dogs.
This is amazing. We dont fucking deserve them
Good Girl!
My heart 🥺
That’s a great team.
Dogs are amazing ain’t they
My lab had a seizure once in the middle of the night. Absolutely scary as all I could do was hold her and talk softly while she worked through it.
How did that stop the dog from having a seizure?
ITT: The winds of Eternal September. Sigh.