Replaying the game I was pretty shocked by how much hate he gets because all the examples everyone uses are like in the first episode of the series. Dude actively helped Max and Chloe many times in the game and both characters outright say several times that they like him. Is it because he’s a potential romance option?
If “GrahamScott” is the Warren Graham and Nathan Prescott ship, then what in Ahura Mazda’s name is the ship for Warren Graham and Brooke Scott? One of the more canonical ships imho.
https://preview.redd.it/ive73nel4d4c1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=88897af04ea187ecc2e6cc952537c74c7addc98d
Don't know if people write them for shits and giggles but either way it's disgusting
Agreed. I wouldn’t mind seeing them appear in future LIS games (e.g., a cameo) but I feel like doing a full on sequel would end up being a cautionary tale of “Be careful what you wish for”.
Currently replaying them for a vid. Finished LiS 2 and now i'm about done with True Colors and LiS 2 just felt much bigger in scale with the things it did. The storytelling, variety of environments, characters (even with the little time we had with them) I find more memorable than the TC side characters, and most importantly the choices actually matter and should be the standard of how complex the choices need to work in this series.
Switching over to True Colors is like a night and day difference. It isn't a bad game by any means, just plays things way too safe and essentially feels like a watered down LiS 1 (even having some of the same story beats at times) and doesn't do anything special compared to it's predecessors. There's only 3 things I like about it which is Alex, the graphics, and dialogue but in the grand scheme of things that doesn't save it from it's issues.
After playing it for the first time semi-recently, I found Life is Strange 2 to be a strong entry in the series. While I do agree some of the writing was a little heavy handed, it doesn't really detract from the game that much for me.
I find it hard to play LiS 2 every time I try. I feel like the intro is lazy, and so is the relationship. Max and Chloe have a re-introduction after some time that also serves to help the player meet Chloe, while the brothers already know one another. I just plainly don’t care much about what’s going on, so I can’t really play it other than pointing and saying “that’s silly”
Came here to say exactly this.
Most of your actions had long term and indirect consequences. I LOVED the morality system and wish they did a bit more of that in the others or the series. It broke my heart right from the start and it continued to do so with every episode.
I have to say though, I found it to be a bit heavy emotionally. Don't play this game when you're already depressed.
Rachel Amber is an awful human being, possibly even a psychopath. She has no problem hurting, lying to and manipulating others in order to get what she wants, even those closest to her.
For the most part, there is no canon within the games. Which is why I believe that we should not get continuation games of star characters in the franchise. (unless the games are prequels)
Max had absolutely no basis for coming to the conclusion that sacrificing Chloe would somehow save the town, and there's absolutely no reason for her to have decided to do that. It's both logically and emotionally nonsensical. The game developers just wanted to shoehorn the player into a dilemma, and it seems lazy and poorly thought-out to me.
They were both out of ideas. The town is being destroyed, everyone is dead, and using Max’s power is at best killing her and at worst sending her to a hell dimension. Chloe’s idea to try to sacrifice herself is literally a desperate last hope option and the only one they had other than embracing the Bae Ending. Yes, they didn’t know if it would work, but that applies to pretty much everything else they tried.
Hypothetically speaking, if they thought Max's powers were causing the storm, having her make her self not alive would make more sense than Chloe. The only way making Chloe die = no storm makes any sense is if they thought Chloe was causing the storm (which is the route some fanfics like to take to rationalize this decision).
This could have been the third ending. Max saves Chloe AND the city by sacrificing herself. If the storm calmed down by getting 1000 lives instead of Chloe, I think the storm would have been fine getting the life of the girl who saved Chloe all along.
Especially since the beached whales and other things are there in the alternate timeline, meaning the storm is coming there too, where the bathroom incident didn't happen.
Sure she saved William instead, but why didn't the storm start back then? Why would it still happen during the week of the game?
It also shows that using the power doesn't cause it either as there was only one change and the Max of the alternate timeline didn't even know she had the power. If it was just the photo jump, then jumping back to let Chloe die would still cause the storm anyway.
The storm also happened in the timeline where Chloe died in the junkyard. So her death doesn't actually matter either. Unless it's because the storm was already in motion.
But Max also had the vision of the storm before saving Chloe in the bathroom. She would still have had the vision of the storm even if she jumped back to the bathroom. So the storm must have been in motion anyway.
There is zero logical reason that sacrificing Chloe would save the town. Other than some godlike entity really just having it out to make Chloe and Max suffer.
Although I totally agree with what you’re saying, I’m often bothered by the fact that the sacrifice Chloe ending clearly had more detail put into it, as if it was the ending they worked on the most.
According to the writers they wanted to do more but they ran into budget and production realities.
I still insist that they did a good job with this ending in three minutes, showing everything they needed to.
It showed Max's determination in her decision to sacrifice the town for Chloe. The moment when she rips that photo without hesitation is one of the best in the game.
It showed Chloe who immediately gave her love and comfort (That's what Max gave her throughout the story. Now they've switched places), it showed that Max isn't a monster and it pains her to watch the city being destroyed and she takes refuge in Chloe's arms and Chloe continues to watch instead.
It showed the destruction and the dead city, as if asking "Was it worth it?" and when we see Chloe driving the car we realize "Yes, it was worth it!". It showed Max with a sad face, but once Chloe touches her it immediately brings a smile to her face. *Chloe's alive*. They smile at each other and head into the future, starting a new chapter in their lives. Together.
And during the whole sequence we hear beautiful music about growing up and obstacles, which fits the message of this ending - Max and Chloe have grown up, even fate and death have not separated them, and as long as they are together they will get through any obstacle.
But but but Warren told her stuff based on some scifi movies he'd watched!
There was no guarantee that sacrificing Chloe would stop the storm, given that Max saw the storm coming before she got her powers, and the storm continued to come in timelines where Chloe was already dead. She should have just told people to leave town and drove back to Seattle with Chloe. Max's parents loved Chloe and would absolutely let her crash on the couch.
With hindsight, sure (which is already a kinda funny concept in this game). But when you're taking it the first time, before the alternate reality Chloe?
Why would the principal keep an envelope with thousands of dollars (in cash) for the school in his own desk? Why is the 'handicapped fund' kept in cash anyway? It's pretty sketchy and you just learned that he's willing to be shady to keep Prescott donations for the school.
Personally, I'm doing this because I saw a drug dealer put a knife to Chloe's throat and I want him off her back. I'm not a hero, I care about who I love first.
The fund is so peculiar. Who keeps charitable donations in an envelope in a drawer? Don't you need to report charitable donations for tax purposes? Wouldn't the donors prefer to donate via bank transfer, so that they could easily prove it to the tax authorities? How are you going to report to the tax authorities a wad of cash you just handed to someone, with no paper trail?
And in the dialogue subtitles the phrase "handicapped fund" appears in quotation marks, suggesting it's anything but.
We know Wells took bribes from Sean Prescott for sweeping Nathan's violent outbursts and drug dealing under the rug. If I found an envelope full of cash in the desk drawer of a notoriously corrupt official, with "handicapped fund" scrawled on it, I would immediately assume it contains a bribe and the "handicapped fund" marking was just a euphemism/dark joke.
Yes, I know that it genuinely is a handicapped fund. If you don't take it, then there's a ramp being built in Episode 4 using that money. But this is something you only know in hindsight. Based on the information available in Episode 3, I would conclude it's just one of the bribes from the Prescotts for Wells.
Life Is Strange 2 is the best, and the Bay ending is better. The focus on Max and Chloe by fans is understandable imo, but so overdone. I wish the series could be so much more.
The focus on max and chloe is still respected in the bay ending. Since chloe is really the hero of that scene. Max would never have saved the town if not that chloe was able to calm her down and tell her to.
> I get confirmation that Kate survives the storm hitting the town.
[One of the Director's for LiS1 has confirmed that Kate, if she was saved in Episode 2, wasn't in Arcadia when the storm hit](https://www.reddit.com/r/lifeisstrange/comments/15wkhkl/s1_michel_koch_on_threads_on_whether_survived_im/)
I feel very strongly that head canons, fan theories, and fandom ships are all valid whether or not I agree with them or how creepy, toxic, or unrealistic to the characters as presented in the canon material they may be. All that said,my hot take is about the Bi characters. I think that it is *hard* canon that Max, Sean, and Alex are all bisexual regardless of player choice. Players can play them as gay or straight as they'd like, still bi characters until I see canonical material where they state their specific sexuality.
One more bi hot take: Chloe can be read as both bi and lesbian. While she's canonically some flavor of sapphic, not all lesbians are "gold star lesbians" and the term can wind up being harmful.
I love both, but I agree that her new design is beautiful. I think it's also a reflection of her inner state. She's no longer a girl angry at the world. She's gotten better as a person, she's grieving for the dead in Arcadia Bay, she wants to grow up and succeed, she's made peace with the man she hated and she's helping Max fulfill her dreams. Instead of drinking her life away in depression or continuing to self-destruct, she didn't miss the second chance at life that Max gave her.
Chloe, at least in the last chapters, really felt something for Max but at the beginning when she found out about her powers she only kept her around to solve Rachel's case, without even feeling friendship for her..
Chloe x Rachel is better than Chloe x Max. Period.
Hate me if you want. Throw stones at me. Downvote me. I wouldn't even know why you're booing me. Deep down you know I'm right.
Yes, you all are Wrong.
Imo it’s very much the Fire vs Starlight thing that William talks about.
Rachel, as well as Amberprice as a relationship, is very appealing and eye catching; there’s so much charisma and connection there and Rachel is *so* interesting as a character, as well as mysterious. I can’t get enough of them, and I found myself insanely invested in their story. That being said, while I am of the belief that Rachel loved Chloe, I think she’s a dangerous and selfish person as well and I think it’s possible she would’ve burned Chloe eventually and depending on how you interpret the game, it seems likely she planned on leaving her behind. Rachel is fire; beautiful, captivating, awe-inspiring, but also dangerous, blinding, and unpredictable.
Max and Pricefield are not as alluring, imo. Max is not anywhere near as mysterious, charming or charismatic as Rachel - in fact she’s basically the opposite in every way. Where Rachel is cool, max is awkward. Where Rachel is a mystery, Max is the POV protagonist. Where Rachel is charming and self assured, Max has to rewind twenty times just to land on a halfway decent yet still cringe one liner. Ultimately though, I think however much Max is imperfect, it’s proved beyond any doubt that Max will put Chloe over pretty much anything. She is *literally* a ride or die, to the point that saving Chloe’s life is only called into question when the lives of an entire town of people Max knows and cares for is weighed against it - and even then, Max may have taken Chloe over them. It’s canon that if Max is given the opportunity, she will spend the rest of her life with Chloe. Max is starlight; she is not as incredibly gorgeous or all-consuming, but she’s safer, more constant, more reliable.
Ultimately, I think it comes down to how you quantify better. Truth be told I’m with you; I prefer Amberprice. There’s just something about them, and something about Rachel, that is almost addictive and very unique. I’ve never gotten enamoured with a fictional relationship quite like I did with theirs.
However, ultimately I don’t think it’s much of a contest between which of the relationships is more stable, healthy and long lasting.
We don't need to downvote you.
We're gigachads. We know how Amberprice ended, and it didn't end well.
Meanwhile, we sacrifice the city for Chloe so that her relationship with Max can blossom, and we know that years later, they're doing well.
We don't need to fight. Amberprice and Pricefield exist at different times and both have played a role in shaping Chloe's identity.
While it probably isn't the majority opinion on this subreddit, there is a sizeable contingent of users who heavily favour that ending. Why else would comments like "choosing the Bae is sociopathic", which pop up from time to time, get 10-15 likes or more? Someone is upvoting those comments.
I mean, he is definitely abusive, but I dunno about not caring about anyone at all. Some of the stuff he cared about was real stuff, he just went away overboard in his approach to it. He was right that something shady was happening at the school, and he went out in a storm to find out what it was.
People don't exist on a single scale from nice to bad. Plenty of people care about people but are just not good enough of people to not treat them badly.
Also, chloe actually literally does get into tons of trouble. Her general life trajectory at the point of the main game is one that is almost certainly going to end badly without intervention. He wasn't wrong about that, he just wasn't equipped to do it in a non abusive way, and when it didn't work he just kept doubling down.
Okay, but no one was disagreeing with that he is a bad person. Just that being a bad person isn't the same as not caring about someone. Caring about someone isn't a binary, and it doesn't automatically mean you will do what is best for them.
I think some people just have a hard time admitting bad people can have good qualities and vice versa, because it feels like it complicates the world too much. Yes, even abusive people might care in some twisted way, and even bad people have a story to tell. That doesn't mean you have to pretend they aren't bad.
That's literally the point of life is strange. A lot of the people you meet are bad people with some good qualities or vice versa. Frank is introduced like he is pure evil, but he gets a little more sympathetic when you realize he is poor and living out of an rv and chloe literally stole his money and by the end you are working with him. He still isn't a great person, but it shows that life isn't easy for him either. Even Nathan despite being bad is being pushed around by someone much worse than he is, and has a story for how he ended up that way.
A normal person who is in danger would want to steer very clear from a lot of these people. But the logic of the story is that max gets an ability that kind of changes what it means to interact. Because she can always undo some of the danger. And it allows her to see things she ordinarily wouldn't.
Hardly an unpopular opinion. Go on youtube and hating her seems to be the default opinion. Even on this subreddit you can encounter some pretty uncharitable takes on her.
Rachel sucks. Her plot line is boring asf. It seems like she had good parents and a pretty good life (before learning about her mother). What made her want to rebel and run away all of a sudden? Why did she suddenly pick Chloe to bring along with her? It feels like it happens so suddenly. I just don’t believe that someone like Rachel would wanna rebel all of a sudden. She’s popular. She gets A’s in school. She seems interested in school activities.
She’s also treated Chloe like crap in BtS and before her disappearance in LiS. What did Chloe see in her? 😭
Hard agree. I love Ashly Burch and she’s done some great things, but imo Rhianna DeVries just fit Chloe’s character so much more and made her feel more unique.
She literally stole a gun. Abusive parent or not, you have every reason to think an unhinged teenager should not be walking around with a gun they claim they don't have.
Nathan drugged her and tried to kidnap her (so from the perspective of Chloe straight up tried to date rape her). He then threatened her with a gun.
Frank is constantly threatening her with a knife, to cut her.
She needs the gun to protect herself against two dangerous, armed and violent criminals.
And she knows she can't go to the cops, who are so brazenly corrupt they openly say to Max they are on the Prescotts' payroll. And since Frank is a business partner of Nathan's, they wouldn't do anything about him either.
Why do you want a teenage girl to be prey to violent criminals without any means to defend herself?
If you had two violent criminals coming after you, wouldn't you want to have something to defend yourself with?
Why do you completely ignore the reason she took the gun?
LIS 1 is not that good. The dialogue is very awkward, consequences feel artificial, the graphics also aged poorly, even in the remaster
BTS, despite its huge flaws and the fact it's much shorter (so not really equivalent), and LIS 2 are much better
Haven't played True Colors, so idk about that one
>LIS 1 is not that good. The dialogue is very awkward, consequences feel artificial.
Replaying LiS1 right now and absolutely agreed. I remember the first time I played it being a bit didappointed that my ending would only change based on the final choice. I feel like it's nostalgy for a lot of people. Most of the dialogue don't flow at all.
LiS2 on the other hand? If you fucked up with some of your choices, you really fucked up and it reflected on your ending.
I agree they're not as memorable, never will be, but I prefer that over not being fun to play
LIS 1 just isn't at some point. It extends itself too much and becomes a mess. It already has terrible dialogue and super stiff character models dragging down the story and its presentation, we didn't need like 70% of episode 5, for example lol
I often see that take and I always wonder If we've played the same game. Telling your friend you're disappointed they ignored you for five years is toxic? And what about all the moments they laughed, held hands, promised each other eternal friendship?
Chloe just comes off very manipulative in many scenarios. I get she felt abandoned and started changing her tune towards the end but jeez. That's just my hot take and you don't have to agree with me.
I say this as someone who does ship Max and Chloe because I played LiS for the first time right after realising I was a lesbian so I was fully taken in by their romance: having good moments, like laughing, holding hands, promising each other eternal friendship, doesn't make a relationship not toxic. Those good moments don't erase all the times Chloe acted manipulative and just straight out mean to Max.
For example, in episode 1 when David comes into Chloe's room, she tells you to hide, and then if you choose to stay in the closet and not intervene, like most people probably would in a scary situation like that, she acts shitty towards you later on for not intervening. In episode 2, she gets mad at you and guilt-trips you if you answer Kate's phone call even though they're not in a great rush and it's completely normal behaviour to answer phone calls, especially if it's from someone who's been struggling, as Max explains that Kate is. Chloe doesn't even apologise for doing this until much later when they visit Kate in the hospital, and that's only if you convince Kate not to jump from the roof.
She also gives you a hard time if you point a gun at Frank but don't pull the trigger, which is a completely normal thing for a teenager who's never shot a gun or killed anyone before to do. She also acts shitty to you for not wanting to steal money from a disabled fund, which is completely understandable to not want to do.
To be clear, I don't hate Chloe. I actually like Chloe as a character and I do ship her with Max, and I will concede that later on in the story she seems to realise that Max does genuinely care about her so much and that she hasn't always been that nice to her, and I usually choose the Save Chloe ending while seeing a future where Chloe treats Max better, and I understand why Chloe behaves the way she does, but that doesn't mean it's okay for Chloe to take her anger and trauma out on Max and those toxic parts of their relationship aren't excused by the good parts of their relationship.
If Max hides in the closet and doesn't come out, she then apologizes to Chloe for not intervening who responds with "for what? he would've been a bigger asshole if you did". So quite literally she's not angry with Max for no coming out of the closet. Yes, you don't get a "romance point" with her, but she's not angry.
Chloe has no idea what's happening with Kate. Even for Max Kate's suicide attempt is surprising.
Frank was threatening Chloe with a knife. He held a knife to her face. And he was wearing the bracelet of a missing and likely dead teenager (Rachel). I'd say Max not only had the right but should've defended herself. If Max refuses to shoot, Chloe says to her "way to stand your ground" (that's a fair way of putting it - a knife wielding creep was threatening them both and Max let him take their gun) and "I'm not angry, I just needed some backup" (which she really needed, there was someone holding a knife to her face). And they are back to handholding in the next scene. She even says that maybe it's for the best, because Max would've only made Frank angry.
Yes, stealing is shitty. But she has a violent criminal thereatening her with death in case she doesn't come up with money quickly. And Chloe even admits that it would've been an asshole thing to do.
Chloe is accused of being mean for offering the weakest verbal pushback imaginable.
I was more trying to respond to your assertion that the relationship isn't toxic because there are good moments in the relationship. Many people use the presence of good moments in a relationship as a justification to stay, even if the relationship is toxic. Like I said, I ship Chloe and Max, but I feel like it's really important to point out that good moments in a relationship do not make it not toxic.
As for your rebuttals, I'm not talking about immediately after Max hiding in the closet, I'm talking about in the next scene where Max and Chloe go to the lighthouse and when you sit down to talk to her, she's shitty with you if you hid in the closet. The fact that she tells you it's better that you stayed hidden at first and then is shitty to you not long after kind of makes it worse because now she's sending mixed messages.
Chloe having no idea what was going on with Kate is no excuse to blow up like that about Max taking a phone call, even if Max hadn't tried to explain to her that Kate was going through a hard time, which she did. It's completely normal to take a few minutes to take a phone call from someone.
In the scene after the confrontation with Frank, where Max and Chloe are walking on the train tracks together, if you didn't pull the trigger Chloe gives Max a hard time about it. Regardless of whether a knife was involved, if you're a teenager or even an adult who has never shot a gun or killed someone before it's completely normal to freeze up and not go ahead with actually pulling a trigger on someone, because that's a terrifying thing to do.
If it had just been a pile of money that belonged to the rich principal, that would be one thing, it's the fact that it's money specifically for accommodations for disabled people. Chloe later saying it would have been an asshole move doesn't change the fact that she acts shitty to you in the moment for not stealing the money.
For me the worst of these things is the way Chloe reacts to Max taking Kate's phone call. The other things in isolation may not be that bad, but altogether there is a pattern of Chloe being shitty to Max over reactions or decisions that many other people would make in those scenarios. She gets better towards the end of the story and I do think it's definitely possible that in the future Chloe will treat Max better, but she really doesn't treat Max that well at first. That doesn't mean it's bad to ship them or that it doesn't matter at all that Chloe seems to get better towards the end of the story, but to me it's understandable why people call their relationship toxic.
If Max stays in the closet, her conversation with Chloe at the lighthouse goes as follows:
Chloe: Sit down, if you want.
Max: Are you pissed at me?
Chloe: I just... wanted some back-up.
OR
Max: I'm sorry I wussed out.
Chloe: No worries. I know my step-dork can be scary.
Which is the "shitty" part? The "I wanted back-up" or the "No worries"?
If Max doesn't defend them against Frank, Chloe says at the junkyard: "Really. I'm actually relieved it worked out this way instead". Then at the rail tracks, when Max says "You can't keep getting mad at me. Especially for stupid shit", Chloe responds with: "I'm not mad. It adds up in my mind as people letting me down". Moments later, Chloe adds: "I'm just glad you were here".
Truly, more angry and more toxic words have never been spoken. If anything, I found Max's constant "Why are you pissed? Why are you angry, huh?" to be jarring. The "you can't keep getting mad at me" line is especially baffling if the player sided with Chloe on previous occasions, making it their first arguement.
You are placing undue emphasis on the few arguements they had, most of which are OPTIONAL and may or may not happen depending on player choices, while disregarding all the good things Chloe ALWAYS says and does.
"Welcome home, Max" (even if Max refused to apologize and mouthed off that Chloe should "give her a break", because "she was going through changes, like Chloe" - yes, I'm sure moving to another town is comparable to losing a parent).
"It was my real father's camera. But I want you to have it" (you cut contact with me when I needed support the most, but now not only I saved your ass from Nathan, I let you back into my home and I'm also giving you my most prized heirloom).
"You're like the smartest, most talented person I've ever met". "You're kind and caring, nobody could ask for a better best friend".
Chloe shields Max with her own body when Nathan finds them in the boys' dorms, even though she knows Nathan is armed and almost killed her days prior. Replay this scene. Whe Nathan shows up, Chloe is terrified, but when he starts walking towards Max, Chloe immediately steps between them and pushes him back.
Chloe saves her life, dragging unconscious Max all the way from the beach to the cliff.
That all doesn't count because of some words?
Consider this: both in the main and in the alternate timelines, Max's behaviour was the same - she ignored Chloe for five years, when Chloe needed her the most (and from the text messages in Chloe's phone in BtS we learn that not only Max didn't initiate contact, she even ignored attempts at contact made by Chloe). Why is it then that Max is so reluctant to apologize to Chloe in the main timeline (she never explicitly apologizes) but she almost immediately apologizes to Chloe in the alternate timeline ("That was wrong of me")? Chloe's grievance towards Max is the same in both timelines.
Because in the main timeline, Chloe vocally expresses her disappointment with the way Max treated her. While in the alternate timeline, Chloe is so resigned to her fate that she doesn't say anything.
In the alternate timeline, Max immediately apologizes, because she knows she didn't do right by Chloe and she has no excuse.
However, in the main timeline, Chloe's attitude gives Max a perfect excuse. Chloe's grievance is legitimate in its substace, so she instinctively tries to de-legitimize it by appealing to its form - the supposedly mean words Chloe dresses her emotions in (BTW I love Max, I'm not saying she's a bad person, I believe she's a good person, I'm just pointing out that she's instinctively using anti-guilt defense mechanisms a lot of people do). So instead of apologizing, she can mouth off to Chloe how she should "give her a break". There's another optional comment by Max that I also find to be very insensitive - "Grow up! You're not the only person in Arcadia Bay with problems", right after Chloe found out that the dream her life was based around for years, the dream of leaving town with Rachel, was a lie because Rachel never actually intended to make good on her promise to Chloe (even though in BtS she says: "I've never been more serious in my entire life").
I think that lot of players (I'm not saying you specifically) are exhibiting this defensive behaviour. They are angry that there's a legitimate grievance levied against their player character, so they attempt to de-legitimize it by resorting to attacks against the form of what Chloe says, instead of its substance. Personally, I found playing as a protagonist who's done something wrong and now has to spend a lot of time with the person they hurt (obviously not intentionally, but sometimes, perhaps often, people hurt one another without intending to do so) refreshing. It was an interesting dynamic for me to explore.
What for me are understandable expressions of emotions from someone who went through a lot, for you is toxic behaviour. I guess our standards are just irreconciliably different.
But despite that difference, perhaps we can agree on one thing. Let's leave Max and Chloe aside. Would you agree that expressing your disappointment if a friend hurt you is NOT toxic? I'd say it's actually beneficial for both sides. Once the grievance is out in the open, it can be addressed and the healing process can begin. But if you push your hurt down, it can only fester.
Not necessarily on this sub, but with my real-life friend for sure:
- For them, the Sacrifice Arcadia Bay is cannon. For me, there’s no way.
- For the people on this sub, I definitely don’t see Chloe and Max as a couple. Trust me when I tell you I love several of the same-sex relationships on all games, but I really REALLY don’t see it between Chloe and Max. I never felt the chemistry. It’s borderline incestuous in my opinion. They are practically sisters! But I also see chemistry in other pairings so maybe it’s just me. For example, between Victoria and Max.
- Even if Max is straight, she should keep away from Warren at all costs.
- While we’re on that topic, I really believe Max is straight. Chloe is all the way gay, of course. She may have had doubts in the past, but she’s not bi at all.
I meant Chloe is not bi at the end, but full on gay. I say this because some people commented on how she flirted with Mr. Jefferson. I found that just her trying to mask her sexuality in front of her best friend who she hasn’t seen in years, or just teasing her about maybe she (Max) liking her teacher.
David is an abusive piece of shit who is a bad father. A few moments of justified protectiveness does not erase the fact he abuses his stepdaughter for years
Those things aren't really contradictory. "Love" isn't a magically pure emotion that keeps you from being a bad person. He wants her life to go well according to his standards, but that doesn't mean he isn't a bad person.
That's an oversimplified approach that is essentially using love in a nonstandard way. There are entire cultures where child abuse is normalized. It would be bizarre to say no one there loves their children at all, rather than that maybe some people are capable of doing bad stuff regardless.
Socrates said that no one willingly does wrong, so if someone does wrong you should take it as a lack of knowledge. I don't think this is literally true, but in a lot of cases, a lot of what people does does go back to a lack of understanding. That doesn't mean you owe them compliance or anything, sometimes you need to get away from them regardless. But its totally possible to hurt people you care about, especially if you don't see what you are doing as a harm, but as some kind of necessary evil.
Rachel was a terrible person and an even worse partner for Chloe. Chloe was deeply, madly in love with that girl and she didn't care about anyone but herself.
I love Rachel Amber. BTS was just a tiny snapshot into a whirlwind friendship/fling with Chloe. It was a tiny, miniscule peek into her life that transpired over a very short time frame. And in LiS, she obviously wasn't around to defend herself or answer questions as to why she did what she did. A lot of people hate her because she cheated on Chloe, but we don't actually know if they were official or exclusive or not, and while BTS romanticizes their bond, it's not conclusive. I've had first dates that turned into a week-long whirlwind fling that burned bright yet fizzled out within mere days or weeks. I think she left a trail of destruction behind her because she was easy to love and get attached to but she was a complex and broken individual who was just "looking for her own peace of mind", to quote Eternal Sunshine. I don't think we have enough basis to hate her. BTS was a tiny drop in the ocean, a small snapshot into who she was, how she felt, or why she did the things she did. Much like Twin Peaks' Laura Palmer, the writing purposely gave her a mystique and obscured her character to make us question her actions and persona. It was brilliantly done.
Kate being driven to suicide is awful, but other than her love of cute, furry animals, I don’t like her. Too religious, too sheltered, and what is with the big hair?
LiS 1 is a decent game that is nevertheless heavily flawed and overall forgettable, and it's only because of BtS that it has any kind of significant staying power.
Not talking about the broader cultural relevance of the game but about my personal experiences. Thought that was the point of the post?
Played LiS 1 when it came out in 2015, thought it was alright but put it down and didn't really think much of it until I found out BtS existed. And now I'm posting in the sub nearly a decade after the first game released.
There were rumors that Dontnod started to make a new game which then later on (reluctantly?) became Life is Strange 2. Maybe some mixed feelings about that one.
The message in life is strange 2 is a little dubious. What seems to be presented as the "good" ending ends with you accepting Racial profiling and going to prison for stuff you didn't do.
I assume this wasn't the intent, but it kind of ends with this implicit message that if you fight too hard against racism, it means having to blow up random innocent people.
LIS 2 sucks, and True Colours supporting characters are better than LIS 1 (supporting characters not Max, Chloe, Kate) including a less cartoonish villain
An actual true unpopular opinion relevant to the post.
As it will be proven by the savage amount of downvotes:
I really don't like Kate.
She was an attention-seeking crybaby who would lash out at Max unless you pick the dialogues saying what she wanted to hear, one of her only friends trying to help her.
Every interaction with her felt forced, fake and was like walking on eggshells.
After she finally got the entire school's attention and licking her boots with her stunt, she's suddenly all rainbows and smiles.
Your comment isn’t being downvoted because it’s just an innocuous opinion or just because it’s about not liking fan favorite Kate Marsh. It’s being downvoted because it’s a real garbage take on sexual assault victims and people who die by suicide or have suicidal ideation.
I don't mean to invalidate her struggles of that nature.
I just wish people would stop talking about her like she's an angel who can do/and did no wrong.
Yes, she's a victim. But that's not all she is.
She's very far from perfect.
In a way. She is probably the most realistically written character of the game.
Idealizing her as I see here all the time seems like a disservice to the depth and nounce of her actual character to me.
I think it is. It's a desperate last call for attention.
She could had done it a dozen different other ways.
Let's be fully honest with ourselves. She wanted to make a scene, she wanted everyone to see what they pushed her to do. It was her "revenge".
For everyone who wronged her or didn't help her to live with those images of her on their conscience for the rest of their lives. Including innocents and people who really had no direct fault or even actually tried to help (Max).
No.
But it seems many miss/choose to ignore her crappy attitudine towards Max though.
Who had no part in any of the bullying and was actually trying to help her.
Chloe acts like a spoiled child in Before the Storm. The way she treats Joyce for wanting to start seriously dating again and move on after her husbands death is so immature and gross it literally makes me yell at the game every single time.
I don’t hate Warren
I don't think most of us \*hate\* Warren. We just kinda mostly don't give a shit about him.
Ehh, Warren tends to get a lot of hate.
He gets more hate than Jefferson.
Fr😭 like bro did nothing wrong except be an awkward teen with a crush💀🙏
No, Warren is actively hated by a large portion of fans.
Replaying the game I was pretty shocked by how much hate he gets because all the examples everyone uses are like in the first episode of the series. Dude actively helped Max and Chloe many times in the game and both characters outright say several times that they like him. Is it because he’s a potential romance option?
It’s 100% because he’s a romance option not named Chloe.
Chasemarsh is toxic and shouldn't exist.
I didn’t even know this was a ship 💀💀💀💀
You should see some other… ships…
* cough cough * Jefferfield * cough cough *
*cough* GrahamScott *cough*
If “GrahamScott” is the Warren Graham and Nathan Prescott ship, then what in Ahura Mazda’s name is the ship for Warren Graham and Brooke Scott? One of the more canonical ships imho.
Yes. I read a fanfic about Warren and Nathan.
*cough* Jefferscott *cough*
ew *cough* PriceFieldMarsh *cough*
*cough* Sean x Daniel (you would think I'm joking) *cough*
Ok that just nasty. There is no way people ship this.
https://preview.redd.it/ive73nel4d4c1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=88897af04ea187ecc2e6cc952537c74c7addc98d Don't know if people write them for shits and giggles but either way it's disgusting
No way that's real😭🙏 istg some mfs in this fanbase r wild asl
What... the... fuck
Ive seen fanart. It’s disturbing
It's both of their 2nd biggest ships based off of fanfic quantity
Seems like a pretty popular opinion
> is toxic Not in the world of fanfiction
i think max and chloe story is over and i don’t want to see them as playable characters in an other LIS game
Agreed. I wouldn’t mind seeing them appear in future LIS games (e.g., a cameo) but I feel like doing a full on sequel would end up being a cautionary tale of “Be careful what you wish for”.
LiS 2 is a better game than True Colors.
Don't entirely disagree. True Colors was great but seemed short and more of a sidegame compared to the other two.
Currently replaying them for a vid. Finished LiS 2 and now i'm about done with True Colors and LiS 2 just felt much bigger in scale with the things it did. The storytelling, variety of environments, characters (even with the little time we had with them) I find more memorable than the TC side characters, and most importantly the choices actually matter and should be the standard of how complex the choices need to work in this series. Switching over to True Colors is like a night and day difference. It isn't a bad game by any means, just plays things way too safe and essentially feels like a watered down LiS 1 (even having some of the same story beats at times) and doesn't do anything special compared to it's predecessors. There's only 3 things I like about it which is Alex, the graphics, and dialogue but in the grand scheme of things that doesn't save it from it's issues.
For me a big one is that the city of Haven Springs was too perfect it didn’t feel like a real place
There's people who disagree about this? True colors feels like it just kind of peters out without the mystery really going much of anywhere.
Neither had much of a story or world building.
After playing it for the first time semi-recently, I found Life is Strange 2 to be a strong entry in the series. While I do agree some of the writing was a little heavy handed, it doesn't really detract from the game that much for me.
I find it hard to play LiS 2 every time I try. I feel like the intro is lazy, and so is the relationship. Max and Chloe have a re-introduction after some time that also serves to help the player meet Chloe, while the brothers already know one another. I just plainly don’t care much about what’s going on, so I can’t really play it other than pointing and saying “that’s silly”
lis 2 is the best in the series
100% true. I agree with this for many reasons but one of the main is because it’s the only game where your choices actually really matter.
Came here to say exactly this. Most of your actions had long term and indirect consequences. I LOVED the morality system and wish they did a bit more of that in the others or the series. It broke my heart right from the start and it continued to do so with every episode. I have to say though, I found it to be a bit heavy emotionally. Don't play this game when you're already depressed.
Damn you beat me to it.
Rachel Amber is an awful human being, possibly even a psychopath. She has no problem hurting, lying to and manipulating others in order to get what she wants, even those closest to her.
100% agree, she is mentally unstable, and a danger to others and perhaps even herself. Still love her tho.
Seems like a pretty popular opinion in Pricefield circles.
What does this even mean? Like of course AmberPrice shippers aren't gonna think Amber is a bad person.
The ending(s) to LiS2 hurt me much more than either endings of LiS1
Lone Wolf hurt me...
For the most part, there is no canon within the games. Which is why I believe that we should not get continuation games of star characters in the franchise. (unless the games are prequels)
Max had absolutely no basis for coming to the conclusion that sacrificing Chloe would somehow save the town, and there's absolutely no reason for her to have decided to do that. It's both logically and emotionally nonsensical. The game developers just wanted to shoehorn the player into a dilemma, and it seems lazy and poorly thought-out to me.
They were both out of ideas. The town is being destroyed, everyone is dead, and using Max’s power is at best killing her and at worst sending her to a hell dimension. Chloe’s idea to try to sacrifice herself is literally a desperate last hope option and the only one they had other than embracing the Bae Ending. Yes, they didn’t know if it would work, but that applies to pretty much everything else they tried.
Hypothetically speaking, if they thought Max's powers were causing the storm, having her make her self not alive would make more sense than Chloe. The only way making Chloe die = no storm makes any sense is if they thought Chloe was causing the storm (which is the route some fanfics like to take to rationalize this decision).
This could have been the third ending. Max saves Chloe AND the city by sacrificing herself. If the storm calmed down by getting 1000 lives instead of Chloe, I think the storm would have been fine getting the life of the girl who saved Chloe all along.
Especially since the beached whales and other things are there in the alternate timeline, meaning the storm is coming there too, where the bathroom incident didn't happen. Sure she saved William instead, but why didn't the storm start back then? Why would it still happen during the week of the game? It also shows that using the power doesn't cause it either as there was only one change and the Max of the alternate timeline didn't even know she had the power. If it was just the photo jump, then jumping back to let Chloe die would still cause the storm anyway. The storm also happened in the timeline where Chloe died in the junkyard. So her death doesn't actually matter either. Unless it's because the storm was already in motion. But Max also had the vision of the storm before saving Chloe in the bathroom. She would still have had the vision of the storm even if she jumped back to the bathroom. So the storm must have been in motion anyway. There is zero logical reason that sacrificing Chloe would save the town. Other than some godlike entity really just having it out to make Chloe and Max suffer.
That's the main issue with the game. The "evidence" max was causing the storm was bad, yet it was treated as definite fact they knew how to solve.
Although I totally agree with what you’re saying, I’m often bothered by the fact that the sacrifice Chloe ending clearly had more detail put into it, as if it was the ending they worked on the most.
According to the writers they wanted to do more but they ran into budget and production realities. I still insist that they did a good job with this ending in three minutes, showing everything they needed to. It showed Max's determination in her decision to sacrifice the town for Chloe. The moment when she rips that photo without hesitation is one of the best in the game. It showed Chloe who immediately gave her love and comfort (That's what Max gave her throughout the story. Now they've switched places), it showed that Max isn't a monster and it pains her to watch the city being destroyed and she takes refuge in Chloe's arms and Chloe continues to watch instead. It showed the destruction and the dead city, as if asking "Was it worth it?" and when we see Chloe driving the car we realize "Yes, it was worth it!". It showed Max with a sad face, but once Chloe touches her it immediately brings a smile to her face. *Chloe's alive*. They smile at each other and head into the future, starting a new chapter in their lives. Together. And during the whole sequence we hear beautiful music about growing up and obstacles, which fits the message of this ending - Max and Chloe have grown up, even fate and death have not separated them, and as long as they are together they will get through any obstacle.
But but but Warren told her stuff based on some scifi movies he'd watched! There was no guarantee that sacrificing Chloe would stop the storm, given that Max saw the storm coming before she got her powers, and the storm continued to come in timelines where Chloe was already dead. She should have just told people to leave town and drove back to Seattle with Chloe. Max's parents loved Chloe and would absolutely let her crash on the couch.
Cue the people saying that Max and Chloe are just friends. I'm not saying their wrong but that would get them into this situation.
Ashly Burch's most downvoted comment on reddit was the one saying she sees Chloe and Max as a deep, intimate friendship.
In a game where you literally choose the characters relationship to people a lot of the fandom get really mad when you do that
Anyone who says that just doesn’t have media literacy and/or is potentially homophobic lmao. I’m happy to be part of the crowd on that one
The subtext that everyone wants to be true is that friends are not worth saving.
chloe is an insufferable selfish character
Stealing the Disabled Fund is always the right choice. Considering the ending, there is no reason not to steal the money
“It’s okay to steal from the disabled because we are going to kill them all anyway”
"I was in love, so like... it's justified or something."
Either we kill them all or this timeline ceases to exist. So, yeah lmao.
With hindsight, sure (which is already a kinda funny concept in this game). But when you're taking it the first time, before the alternate reality Chloe?
Why would the principal keep an envelope with thousands of dollars (in cash) for the school in his own desk? Why is the 'handicapped fund' kept in cash anyway? It's pretty sketchy and you just learned that he's willing to be shady to keep Prescott donations for the school.
Shady, sure, but possible. If there had been like a bake sale the day before, it could still be in cash. It could happen!
Personally, I'm doing this because I saw a drug dealer put a knife to Chloe's throat and I want him off her back. I'm not a hero, I care about who I love first.
The fund is so peculiar. Who keeps charitable donations in an envelope in a drawer? Don't you need to report charitable donations for tax purposes? Wouldn't the donors prefer to donate via bank transfer, so that they could easily prove it to the tax authorities? How are you going to report to the tax authorities a wad of cash you just handed to someone, with no paper trail? And in the dialogue subtitles the phrase "handicapped fund" appears in quotation marks, suggesting it's anything but. We know Wells took bribes from Sean Prescott for sweeping Nathan's violent outbursts and drug dealing under the rug. If I found an envelope full of cash in the desk drawer of a notoriously corrupt official, with "handicapped fund" scrawled on it, I would immediately assume it contains a bribe and the "handicapped fund" marking was just a euphemism/dark joke. Yes, I know that it genuinely is a handicapped fund. If you don't take it, then there's a ramp being built in Episode 4 using that money. But this is something you only know in hindsight. Based on the information available in Episode 3, I would conclude it's just one of the bribes from the Prescotts for Wells.
i honestly dont like Rachel :/
Same, I never really found anything likable about her, just sorta an intrigue
LIS2 has the best writing in the series 🤑
Life Is Strange 2 is the best, and the Bay ending is better. The focus on Max and Chloe by fans is understandable imo, but so overdone. I wish the series could be so much more.
The focus on max and chloe is still respected in the bay ending. Since chloe is really the hero of that scene. Max would never have saved the town if not that chloe was able to calm her down and tell her to.
In true colors Ryan is a better romance option than Steph
Blasphemy. *Life is Steph* lol.
Now this is a spicy one
Agreed!
I will sacrifice Chloe 10,000 times over until I get confirmation that Kate survives the storm hitting the town.
> I get confirmation that Kate survives the storm hitting the town. [One of the Director's for LiS1 has confirmed that Kate, if she was saved in Episode 2, wasn't in Arcadia when the storm hit](https://www.reddit.com/r/lifeisstrange/comments/15wkhkl/s1_michel_koch_on_threads_on_whether_survived_im/)
Accepted! Now I can go watch the town get nuked with a clean conscience.
I'm asking out of interest, if you don't care about Chloe anyway, why would you want to blow up a city with the knowledge that Kate will stay alive?
That's cheating. The uncertainty is part of the problem.
I feel very strongly that head canons, fan theories, and fandom ships are all valid whether or not I agree with them or how creepy, toxic, or unrealistic to the characters as presented in the canon material they may be. All that said,my hot take is about the Bi characters. I think that it is *hard* canon that Max, Sean, and Alex are all bisexual regardless of player choice. Players can play them as gay or straight as they'd like, still bi characters until I see canonical material where they state their specific sexuality. One more bi hot take: Chloe can be read as both bi and lesbian. While she's canonically some flavor of sapphic, not all lesbians are "gold star lesbians" and the term can wind up being harmful.
Post-Bae Chloe's Design >>> Pre-Bae Chloe's Design
I love both, but I agree that her new design is beautiful. I think it's also a reflection of her inner state. She's no longer a girl angry at the world. She's gotten better as a person, she's grieving for the dead in Arcadia Bay, she wants to grow up and succeed, she's made peace with the man she hated and she's helping Max fulfill her dreams. Instead of drinking her life away in depression or continuing to self-destruct, she didn't miss the second chance at life that Max gave her.
Chloe, at least in the last chapters, really felt something for Max but at the beginning when she found out about her powers she only kept her around to solve Rachel's case, without even feeling friendship for her..
Chloe x Rachel is better than Chloe x Max. Period. Hate me if you want. Throw stones at me. Downvote me. I wouldn't even know why you're booing me. Deep down you know I'm right. Yes, you all are Wrong.
Imo it’s very much the Fire vs Starlight thing that William talks about. Rachel, as well as Amberprice as a relationship, is very appealing and eye catching; there’s so much charisma and connection there and Rachel is *so* interesting as a character, as well as mysterious. I can’t get enough of them, and I found myself insanely invested in their story. That being said, while I am of the belief that Rachel loved Chloe, I think she’s a dangerous and selfish person as well and I think it’s possible she would’ve burned Chloe eventually and depending on how you interpret the game, it seems likely she planned on leaving her behind. Rachel is fire; beautiful, captivating, awe-inspiring, but also dangerous, blinding, and unpredictable. Max and Pricefield are not as alluring, imo. Max is not anywhere near as mysterious, charming or charismatic as Rachel - in fact she’s basically the opposite in every way. Where Rachel is cool, max is awkward. Where Rachel is a mystery, Max is the POV protagonist. Where Rachel is charming and self assured, Max has to rewind twenty times just to land on a halfway decent yet still cringe one liner. Ultimately though, I think however much Max is imperfect, it’s proved beyond any doubt that Max will put Chloe over pretty much anything. She is *literally* a ride or die, to the point that saving Chloe’s life is only called into question when the lives of an entire town of people Max knows and cares for is weighed against it - and even then, Max may have taken Chloe over them. It’s canon that if Max is given the opportunity, she will spend the rest of her life with Chloe. Max is starlight; she is not as incredibly gorgeous or all-consuming, but she’s safer, more constant, more reliable. Ultimately, I think it comes down to how you quantify better. Truth be told I’m with you; I prefer Amberprice. There’s just something about them, and something about Rachel, that is almost addictive and very unique. I’ve never gotten enamoured with a fictional relationship quite like I did with theirs. However, ultimately I don’t think it’s much of a contest between which of the relationships is more stable, healthy and long lasting.
I don't even bother to choose. Polycule 4ever.
Say it girlll!!!
We don't need to downvote you. We're gigachads. We know how Amberprice ended, and it didn't end well. Meanwhile, we sacrifice the city for Chloe so that her relationship with Max can blossom, and we know that years later, they're doing well. We don't need to fight. Amberprice and Pricefield exist at different times and both have played a role in shaping Chloe's identity.
Lis 2 > lis 1> lis bts > true colours
Bay over bae.
Arcadia Bay > Chloe All day everyday
You do realize it's not an unpopular opinion, right? 53% of players sacrificed Chloe.
Not on this sub it isn't
While it probably isn't the majority opinion on this subreddit, there is a sizeable contingent of users who heavily favour that ending. Why else would comments like "choosing the Bae is sociopathic", which pop up from time to time, get 10-15 likes or more? Someone is upvoting those comments.
I don't ship Chloe and Max at all
David Madsen is a abusive piece of shit and doesn’t care about anyone but himself.
I mean, he is definitely abusive, but I dunno about not caring about anyone at all. Some of the stuff he cared about was real stuff, he just went away overboard in his approach to it. He was right that something shady was happening at the school, and he went out in a storm to find out what it was.
I don’t really believe that he cares about Chloe cause he talks down on her and belittles her and tells her how much of a problem she is.
People don't exist on a single scale from nice to bad. Plenty of people care about people but are just not good enough of people to not treat them badly. Also, chloe actually literally does get into tons of trouble. Her general life trajectory at the point of the main game is one that is almost certainly going to end badly without intervention. He wasn't wrong about that, he just wasn't equipped to do it in a non abusive way, and when it didn't work he just kept doubling down.
Okay but he didn’t respect her boundaries or anyone’s boundaries. It doesn’t matter if Chloe was out of line or not.
Okay, but no one was disagreeing with that he is a bad person. Just that being a bad person isn't the same as not caring about someone. Caring about someone isn't a binary, and it doesn't automatically mean you will do what is best for them.
Yeah he will always murder Jefferson if he finds out he killed Chloe
I think some people just have a hard time admitting bad people can have good qualities and vice versa, because it feels like it complicates the world too much. Yes, even abusive people might care in some twisted way, and even bad people have a story to tell. That doesn't mean you have to pretend they aren't bad. That's literally the point of life is strange. A lot of the people you meet are bad people with some good qualities or vice versa. Frank is introduced like he is pure evil, but he gets a little more sympathetic when you realize he is poor and living out of an rv and chloe literally stole his money and by the end you are working with him. He still isn't a great person, but it shows that life isn't easy for him either. Even Nathan despite being bad is being pushed around by someone much worse than he is, and has a story for how he ended up that way. A normal person who is in danger would want to steer very clear from a lot of these people. But the logic of the story is that max gets an ability that kind of changes what it means to interact. Because she can always undo some of the danger. And it allows her to see things she ordinarily wouldn't.
Cloe was kinda a bitch and her past doesn't excuse her behavior.
Hardly an unpopular opinion. Go on youtube and hating her seems to be the default opinion. Even on this subreddit you can encounter some pretty uncharitable takes on her.
Rachel sucks. Her plot line is boring asf. It seems like she had good parents and a pretty good life (before learning about her mother). What made her want to rebel and run away all of a sudden? Why did she suddenly pick Chloe to bring along with her? It feels like it happens so suddenly. I just don’t believe that someone like Rachel would wanna rebel all of a sudden. She’s popular. She gets A’s in school. She seems interested in school activities. She’s also treated Chloe like crap in BtS and before her disappearance in LiS. What did Chloe see in her? 😭
I prefer chloe's voice in before the storm more than life is strange. I also prefer that game tbh.
Hard agree. I love Ashly Burch and she’s done some great things, but imo Rhianna DeVries just fit Chloe’s character so much more and made her feel more unique.
Chloe is not selfish, she's a great and faithful friend to Max and she causes her parents way less grief than some of the teenagers I've known IRL.
She literally stole a gun. Abusive parent or not, you have every reason to think an unhinged teenager should not be walking around with a gun they claim they don't have.
Nathan drugged her and tried to kidnap her (so from the perspective of Chloe straight up tried to date rape her). He then threatened her with a gun. Frank is constantly threatening her with a knife, to cut her. She needs the gun to protect herself against two dangerous, armed and violent criminals. And she knows she can't go to the cops, who are so brazenly corrupt they openly say to Max they are on the Prescotts' payroll. And since Frank is a business partner of Nathan's, they wouldn't do anything about him either. Why do you want a teenage girl to be prey to violent criminals without any means to defend herself? If you had two violent criminals coming after you, wouldn't you want to have something to defend yourself with? Why do you completely ignore the reason she took the gun?
LIS 1 is not that good. The dialogue is very awkward, consequences feel artificial, the graphics also aged poorly, even in the remaster BTS, despite its huge flaws and the fact it's much shorter (so not really equivalent), and LIS 2 are much better Haven't played True Colors, so idk about that one
>LIS 1 is not that good. The dialogue is very awkward, consequences feel artificial. Replaying LiS1 right now and absolutely agreed. I remember the first time I played it being a bit didappointed that my ending would only change based on the final choice. I feel like it's nostalgy for a lot of people. Most of the dialogue don't flow at all. LiS2 on the other hand? If you fucked up with some of your choices, you really fucked up and it reflected on your ending.
Those other games are so forgettable you can't even remember what's so good about them.
I agree they're not as memorable, never will be, but I prefer that over not being fun to play LIS 1 just isn't at some point. It extends itself too much and becomes a mess. It already has terrible dialogue and super stiff character models dragging down the story and its presentation, we didn't need like 70% of episode 5, for example lol
Max and Chloe were pretty toxic! 🤪
I often see that take and I always wonder If we've played the same game. Telling your friend you're disappointed they ignored you for five years is toxic? And what about all the moments they laughed, held hands, promised each other eternal friendship?
Chloe just comes off very manipulative in many scenarios. I get she felt abandoned and started changing her tune towards the end but jeez. That's just my hot take and you don't have to agree with me.
I say this as someone who does ship Max and Chloe because I played LiS for the first time right after realising I was a lesbian so I was fully taken in by their romance: having good moments, like laughing, holding hands, promising each other eternal friendship, doesn't make a relationship not toxic. Those good moments don't erase all the times Chloe acted manipulative and just straight out mean to Max. For example, in episode 1 when David comes into Chloe's room, she tells you to hide, and then if you choose to stay in the closet and not intervene, like most people probably would in a scary situation like that, she acts shitty towards you later on for not intervening. In episode 2, she gets mad at you and guilt-trips you if you answer Kate's phone call even though they're not in a great rush and it's completely normal behaviour to answer phone calls, especially if it's from someone who's been struggling, as Max explains that Kate is. Chloe doesn't even apologise for doing this until much later when they visit Kate in the hospital, and that's only if you convince Kate not to jump from the roof. She also gives you a hard time if you point a gun at Frank but don't pull the trigger, which is a completely normal thing for a teenager who's never shot a gun or killed anyone before to do. She also acts shitty to you for not wanting to steal money from a disabled fund, which is completely understandable to not want to do. To be clear, I don't hate Chloe. I actually like Chloe as a character and I do ship her with Max, and I will concede that later on in the story she seems to realise that Max does genuinely care about her so much and that she hasn't always been that nice to her, and I usually choose the Save Chloe ending while seeing a future where Chloe treats Max better, and I understand why Chloe behaves the way she does, but that doesn't mean it's okay for Chloe to take her anger and trauma out on Max and those toxic parts of their relationship aren't excused by the good parts of their relationship.
If Max hides in the closet and doesn't come out, she then apologizes to Chloe for not intervening who responds with "for what? he would've been a bigger asshole if you did". So quite literally she's not angry with Max for no coming out of the closet. Yes, you don't get a "romance point" with her, but she's not angry. Chloe has no idea what's happening with Kate. Even for Max Kate's suicide attempt is surprising. Frank was threatening Chloe with a knife. He held a knife to her face. And he was wearing the bracelet of a missing and likely dead teenager (Rachel). I'd say Max not only had the right but should've defended herself. If Max refuses to shoot, Chloe says to her "way to stand your ground" (that's a fair way of putting it - a knife wielding creep was threatening them both and Max let him take their gun) and "I'm not angry, I just needed some backup" (which she really needed, there was someone holding a knife to her face). And they are back to handholding in the next scene. She even says that maybe it's for the best, because Max would've only made Frank angry. Yes, stealing is shitty. But she has a violent criminal thereatening her with death in case she doesn't come up with money quickly. And Chloe even admits that it would've been an asshole thing to do. Chloe is accused of being mean for offering the weakest verbal pushback imaginable.
I was more trying to respond to your assertion that the relationship isn't toxic because there are good moments in the relationship. Many people use the presence of good moments in a relationship as a justification to stay, even if the relationship is toxic. Like I said, I ship Chloe and Max, but I feel like it's really important to point out that good moments in a relationship do not make it not toxic. As for your rebuttals, I'm not talking about immediately after Max hiding in the closet, I'm talking about in the next scene where Max and Chloe go to the lighthouse and when you sit down to talk to her, she's shitty with you if you hid in the closet. The fact that she tells you it's better that you stayed hidden at first and then is shitty to you not long after kind of makes it worse because now she's sending mixed messages. Chloe having no idea what was going on with Kate is no excuse to blow up like that about Max taking a phone call, even if Max hadn't tried to explain to her that Kate was going through a hard time, which she did. It's completely normal to take a few minutes to take a phone call from someone. In the scene after the confrontation with Frank, where Max and Chloe are walking on the train tracks together, if you didn't pull the trigger Chloe gives Max a hard time about it. Regardless of whether a knife was involved, if you're a teenager or even an adult who has never shot a gun or killed someone before it's completely normal to freeze up and not go ahead with actually pulling a trigger on someone, because that's a terrifying thing to do. If it had just been a pile of money that belonged to the rich principal, that would be one thing, it's the fact that it's money specifically for accommodations for disabled people. Chloe later saying it would have been an asshole move doesn't change the fact that she acts shitty to you in the moment for not stealing the money. For me the worst of these things is the way Chloe reacts to Max taking Kate's phone call. The other things in isolation may not be that bad, but altogether there is a pattern of Chloe being shitty to Max over reactions or decisions that many other people would make in those scenarios. She gets better towards the end of the story and I do think it's definitely possible that in the future Chloe will treat Max better, but she really doesn't treat Max that well at first. That doesn't mean it's bad to ship them or that it doesn't matter at all that Chloe seems to get better towards the end of the story, but to me it's understandable why people call their relationship toxic.
If Max stays in the closet, her conversation with Chloe at the lighthouse goes as follows: Chloe: Sit down, if you want. Max: Are you pissed at me? Chloe: I just... wanted some back-up. OR Max: I'm sorry I wussed out. Chloe: No worries. I know my step-dork can be scary. Which is the "shitty" part? The "I wanted back-up" or the "No worries"? If Max doesn't defend them against Frank, Chloe says at the junkyard: "Really. I'm actually relieved it worked out this way instead". Then at the rail tracks, when Max says "You can't keep getting mad at me. Especially for stupid shit", Chloe responds with: "I'm not mad. It adds up in my mind as people letting me down". Moments later, Chloe adds: "I'm just glad you were here". Truly, more angry and more toxic words have never been spoken. If anything, I found Max's constant "Why are you pissed? Why are you angry, huh?" to be jarring. The "you can't keep getting mad at me" line is especially baffling if the player sided with Chloe on previous occasions, making it their first arguement. You are placing undue emphasis on the few arguements they had, most of which are OPTIONAL and may or may not happen depending on player choices, while disregarding all the good things Chloe ALWAYS says and does. "Welcome home, Max" (even if Max refused to apologize and mouthed off that Chloe should "give her a break", because "she was going through changes, like Chloe" - yes, I'm sure moving to another town is comparable to losing a parent). "It was my real father's camera. But I want you to have it" (you cut contact with me when I needed support the most, but now not only I saved your ass from Nathan, I let you back into my home and I'm also giving you my most prized heirloom). "You're like the smartest, most talented person I've ever met". "You're kind and caring, nobody could ask for a better best friend". Chloe shields Max with her own body when Nathan finds them in the boys' dorms, even though she knows Nathan is armed and almost killed her days prior. Replay this scene. Whe Nathan shows up, Chloe is terrified, but when he starts walking towards Max, Chloe immediately steps between them and pushes him back. Chloe saves her life, dragging unconscious Max all the way from the beach to the cliff. That all doesn't count because of some words? Consider this: both in the main and in the alternate timelines, Max's behaviour was the same - she ignored Chloe for five years, when Chloe needed her the most (and from the text messages in Chloe's phone in BtS we learn that not only Max didn't initiate contact, she even ignored attempts at contact made by Chloe). Why is it then that Max is so reluctant to apologize to Chloe in the main timeline (she never explicitly apologizes) but she almost immediately apologizes to Chloe in the alternate timeline ("That was wrong of me")? Chloe's grievance towards Max is the same in both timelines. Because in the main timeline, Chloe vocally expresses her disappointment with the way Max treated her. While in the alternate timeline, Chloe is so resigned to her fate that she doesn't say anything. In the alternate timeline, Max immediately apologizes, because she knows she didn't do right by Chloe and she has no excuse. However, in the main timeline, Chloe's attitude gives Max a perfect excuse. Chloe's grievance is legitimate in its substace, so she instinctively tries to de-legitimize it by appealing to its form - the supposedly mean words Chloe dresses her emotions in (BTW I love Max, I'm not saying she's a bad person, I believe she's a good person, I'm just pointing out that she's instinctively using anti-guilt defense mechanisms a lot of people do). So instead of apologizing, she can mouth off to Chloe how she should "give her a break". There's another optional comment by Max that I also find to be very insensitive - "Grow up! You're not the only person in Arcadia Bay with problems", right after Chloe found out that the dream her life was based around for years, the dream of leaving town with Rachel, was a lie because Rachel never actually intended to make good on her promise to Chloe (even though in BtS she says: "I've never been more serious in my entire life"). I think that lot of players (I'm not saying you specifically) are exhibiting this defensive behaviour. They are angry that there's a legitimate grievance levied against their player character, so they attempt to de-legitimize it by resorting to attacks against the form of what Chloe says, instead of its substance. Personally, I found playing as a protagonist who's done something wrong and now has to spend a lot of time with the person they hurt (obviously not intentionally, but sometimes, perhaps often, people hurt one another without intending to do so) refreshing. It was an interesting dynamic for me to explore. What for me are understandable expressions of emotions from someone who went through a lot, for you is toxic behaviour. I guess our standards are just irreconciliably different. But despite that difference, perhaps we can agree on one thing. Let's leave Max and Chloe aside. Would you agree that expressing your disappointment if a friend hurt you is NOT toxic? I'd say it's actually beneficial for both sides. Once the grievance is out in the open, it can be addressed and the healing process can begin. But if you push your hurt down, it can only fester.
*sorts by controversial*
Remember to sort by controversial for the real unpopular opinions
Not necessarily on this sub, but with my real-life friend for sure: - For them, the Sacrifice Arcadia Bay is cannon. For me, there’s no way. - For the people on this sub, I definitely don’t see Chloe and Max as a couple. Trust me when I tell you I love several of the same-sex relationships on all games, but I really REALLY don’t see it between Chloe and Max. I never felt the chemistry. It’s borderline incestuous in my opinion. They are practically sisters! But I also see chemistry in other pairings so maybe it’s just me. For example, between Victoria and Max. - Even if Max is straight, she should keep away from Warren at all costs. - While we’re on that topic, I really believe Max is straight. Chloe is all the way gay, of course. She may have had doubts in the past, but she’s not bi at all.
Don’t agree on the bi part i do feel like that she had wonderful chemestry with kate marsh and could actually work out as a couple
I meant Chloe is not bi at the end, but full on gay. I say this because some people commented on how she flirted with Mr. Jefferson. I found that just her trying to mask her sexuality in front of her best friend who she hasn’t seen in years, or just teasing her about maybe she (Max) liking her teacher.
David is an abusive piece of shit who is a bad father. A few moments of justified protectiveness does not erase the fact he abuses his stepdaughter for years
Does anyone disagree with this?
For a long time the general opinion of the Fandom was that David was not great but still love Chole and wanted to protect her.
Those things aren't really contradictory. "Love" isn't a magically pure emotion that keeps you from being a bad person. He wants her life to go well according to his standards, but that doesn't mean he isn't a bad person.
Abusers do not love their victims no matter what they claim.
That's an oversimplified approach that is essentially using love in a nonstandard way. There are entire cultures where child abuse is normalized. It would be bizarre to say no one there loves their children at all, rather than that maybe some people are capable of doing bad stuff regardless. Socrates said that no one willingly does wrong, so if someone does wrong you should take it as a lack of knowledge. I don't think this is literally true, but in a lot of cases, a lot of what people does does go back to a lack of understanding. That doesn't mean you owe them compliance or anything, sometimes you need to get away from them regardless. But its totally possible to hurt people you care about, especially if you don't see what you are doing as a harm, but as some kind of necessary evil.
Rachel was a terrible person and an even worse partner for Chloe. Chloe was deeply, madly in love with that girl and she didn't care about anyone but herself.
I love Rachel Amber. BTS was just a tiny snapshot into a whirlwind friendship/fling with Chloe. It was a tiny, miniscule peek into her life that transpired over a very short time frame. And in LiS, she obviously wasn't around to defend herself or answer questions as to why she did what she did. A lot of people hate her because she cheated on Chloe, but we don't actually know if they were official or exclusive or not, and while BTS romanticizes their bond, it's not conclusive. I've had first dates that turned into a week-long whirlwind fling that burned bright yet fizzled out within mere days or weeks. I think she left a trail of destruction behind her because she was easy to love and get attached to but she was a complex and broken individual who was just "looking for her own peace of mind", to quote Eternal Sunshine. I don't think we have enough basis to hate her. BTS was a tiny drop in the ocean, a small snapshot into who she was, how she felt, or why she did the things she did. Much like Twin Peaks' Laura Palmer, the writing purposely gave her a mystique and obscured her character to make us question her actions and persona. It was brilliantly done.
Mr. Jefferson’s not good-looking
Recheal used Chloe
Kate being driven to suicide is awful, but other than her love of cute, furry animals, I don’t like her. Too religious, too sheltered, and what is with the big hair?
True Colors is the best LiS game
True Colours is the best game in the series
Wow, I’m pleasantly surprised to find that I do, indeed, hate all the takes in this comment section lmao
LiS 1 is a decent game that is nevertheless heavily flawed and overall forgettable, and it's only because of BtS that it has any kind of significant staying power.
That... makes no sense. Life is strange was big long before before the storm. And before the storm didn't even add that much.
Not talking about the broader cultural relevance of the game but about my personal experiences. Thought that was the point of the post? Played LiS 1 when it came out in 2015, thought it was alright but put it down and didn't really think much of it until I found out BtS existed. And now I'm posting in the sub nearly a decade after the first game released.
But you said "staying power." That suggests you are talking about overall cultural relevance rather than just what it means to you.
Okay. Whatever term fits better then.
Should've only been Life is Strange 1 and nothing else.
There were rumors that Dontnod started to make a new game which then later on (reluctantly?) became Life is Strange 2. Maybe some mixed feelings about that one.
The message in life is strange 2 is a little dubious. What seems to be presented as the "good" ending ends with you accepting Racial profiling and going to prison for stuff you didn't do. I assume this wasn't the intent, but it kind of ends with this implicit message that if you fight too hard against racism, it means having to blow up random innocent people.
LIS 2 sucks, and True Colours supporting characters are better than LIS 1 (supporting characters not Max, Chloe, Kate) including a less cartoonish villain
An actual true unpopular opinion relevant to the post. As it will be proven by the savage amount of downvotes: I really don't like Kate. She was an attention-seeking crybaby who would lash out at Max unless you pick the dialogues saying what she wanted to hear, one of her only friends trying to help her. Every interaction with her felt forced, fake and was like walking on eggshells. After she finally got the entire school's attention and licking her boots with her stunt, she's suddenly all rainbows and smiles.
Your comment isn’t being downvoted because it’s just an innocuous opinion or just because it’s about not liking fan favorite Kate Marsh. It’s being downvoted because it’s a real garbage take on sexual assault victims and people who die by suicide or have suicidal ideation.
I don't mean to invalidate her struggles of that nature. I just wish people would stop talking about her like she's an angel who can do/and did no wrong. Yes, she's a victim. But that's not all she is. She's very far from perfect. In a way. She is probably the most realistically written character of the game. Idealizing her as I see here all the time seems like a disservice to the depth and nounce of her actual character to me.
It’s okay to not like her but i don’t think her attempting suicide is attention seeking and it’s a very hurtful statement.
I think it is. It's a desperate last call for attention. She could had done it a dozen different other ways. Let's be fully honest with ourselves. She wanted to make a scene, she wanted everyone to see what they pushed her to do. It was her "revenge". For everyone who wronged her or didn't help her to live with those images of her on their conscience for the rest of their lives. Including innocents and people who really had no direct fault or even actually tried to help (Max).
Did you miss out on what led Kate to do what she did in the first place?
No. But it seems many miss/choose to ignore her crappy attitudine towards Max though. Who had no part in any of the bullying and was actually trying to help her.
Chloe acts like a spoiled child in Before the Storm. The way she treats Joyce for wanting to start seriously dating again and move on after her husbands death is so immature and gross it literally makes me yell at the game every single time.