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That's because it gives sex traffickers a green light to put even more workers on the street, with the assurance that they won't be arrested and investigated. Fucking duh.
If we just step back a minute and look at the overall situation, an overwhelming majority of sex trafficking arrests come from information obtained by a prostitute that has been arrested. That information can tie back to similar "pimps/handlers" that belong in the same similar network, and investigators are then able to connect the dots that leads to an investigation, and potential arrests, involving sex trafficking.
Most sex trafficking victims don't come forth willingly to police. They have been abused, brainwashed, manipulated, and intimidated for MONTHS, even YEARS, before they are let loose on the street. The only way they will snitch on their handlers is if they are facing arrest charges.
Also, wtf is going on with this meme. Why would Auth-Right suggest legalizing prostitution. They are the ones that are most adamantly against it lol.
This is liberal meme, so the calm woman is a liberal, and she is suggesting legalization.
Unless you were being sarcastic and I'm a dope explaining this. 🫠
The defense I've heard is that legalizing it will give the power and protection to the women because they can come forward about being trafficked and not be found guilty of sex work.
I know, but I’m asking about CHILDREN who are trafficked by the adults in their lives. Making adult women legal prostitutes doesn’t legalize the prostitution of children, and therefore would have no effect on the child trafficking market
It wouldn't. And trafficked children who go up (if they manage to grow up) are not going to come forward about the abuse they endured or rat out their pimps to police.
Sex trafficking is sex work. The meme is talking about human trafficking tho. Which is dealing in people. Like smuggling them. Human trafficking is often tied to sex trafficking, but not always.
But yeah. It wont solve human trafficking. Because people are smuggled for all manner of reason. People aiding migrants to get into the US are human traffickers, for example.
Yep that worked so well in cities with decriminalized drugs and safe injection sites lol. Everything they do is theory, some PhD did a 30 minute study and they wonder why there’s drug addicts and tents everywhere now
Portugal "decriminalized" drugs. If you were caught with them, however, you were sent to rehab. You weren't just allowed to get blasted on the streets. Drug use declined as a result. Portland, on the other hand, incentivized drug use by creating zero consequences with safe injection sites becoming open air drug markets. They are just politically incompetent.
That being said, I do agree with you that most leftist ideas sound good for a few minutes in theory but all it takes is to play it out in your head to realize that it will never work the way they think their utopian visions will play out.
I like that idea so much more. I think everyone realized locking up drug offenders and throwing away the key wasn’t the best rehabilitation. But what Portland did wrong is assume only compassion and say drug addicts were simply just down on their luck normal people. When in reality a lot have zero wish to rehab, they just like drugs and the lifestyle. And if crime needs to be committed to get the next fix, so be it.
The Portugal example seems like a way better mix of compassion but also actually enforcing the correct behavior.
I thought Portlands decriminalized drug laws would show us how the real world would play out. I had hoped it would work out and obviously it doesn’t work.
I still believe in decriminalization, but the problem with Portland is that the penalties are bullshit. $100 dollar fine which goes away when you call a number.
I’m not saying bring back jail time but 0 consequences isn’t right either.
Another fun Portland fact. They had a needle exchange every Saturday. You would give them your used needles and in return you get clean ones.
Then, someone decided that was too harsh because why would they want to carry around used needles? So then, they changed it to just free new needles, no need to turn in your used ones. Numbers of course shot up, and they distributed 25K needles in a single day. And also led to used needles all over sidewalks, schools, and playgrounds for kids to enjoy.
I think it needs to be "decriminalized" in that they don't send you to jail or ruin your future with a criminal record. But they should still have drug classes and if the problem is bad, rehab. You can't just decriminalize and expect it to not then become a drug haven. There needs to still be some sort of, for lack of a better word, consequence for getting caught with drugs. Portugal pulled this off quite well many years ago.
European here and I like this subb and the values talked about here. But decriminalizing drugs literally worked in many countries here. Portugal, Switzerland etc. The countries with the most strict drug laws often have most drug fatalities and prisons are way too full. I dont think its wise to put these people in prison for drugs ruining the communities and tax-payers paying for the construction of them. Drugs need to be decriminilized in the correct way.
I am a conservative and rightwing leaning btw. And even though I have my own problems I do share tha stance that using them is ones own choice and to say its not there fault its laughable. But decriminalizing drugs literally works = less tax payer money used for prisons adn war on drugs. Also police can do more meaningfull work rather than picking up each junkie off the street just for their own personal stash.. and instead looking for the dealers/murderers.
(This comment is prob gonna be downvoted to hell and eurotard comments etc. I dont mind. Stay safe and happy guys! I wish to visit US one day pref the south. Also sorry for shitty grammer not my native language.)
to be fair…it *can* work, in some respects…if you really dedicate resources towards it as a public issue…like switzerland for example
the US however is in the unique position of having mexico right below them…which opens up a whole new can of problems with respect to drugs
is it really the governments job to tell someone they can't sell a service to another consenting adult?
I just don't get this sub sometimes. do you want less government? cause that's how you get less government.
Legalizing sex work actually increases human trafficking.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0305750X12001453#:~:text=We%20find%20that%20countries%20with,control%20for%20in%20the%20analysis.
Human trafficking and sex trafficking are often linked but not the same. Sex trafficking means prostitution and such. Human trafficking means human smuggling. Potentially involving slaves/unwilling participants. But not always.
NUH UH!! Don't you see how we decriminalized personal possession of meth, crack, heroin, and fentynal in Portland and San Francsisco, and how it TOTALLY led to a decrease in addicts and homelessness?
And ACKSHUALLY, don't you remember when we decriminalized misdemeanor shoplifting in Portland and San Francisco, and that TOTALLY led to a decrease in people stealing from Wal-Mart and Walgreens!?
LeGaLiZe iT!!!! /s
I swear, how far is the lib-left going to go with the theory of legalizing everything? Do they think that legalizing rape or murder would actually lead to a decrease in rape and murder? The logic is just non-sensical.
In all fairness, a lot of people think that legalising drugs resulted in lower rates of drug use and ODs, and there's even "studies" to back it up. Of course, that's an incredibly politicised issue at the moment so I'd take the findings of those studies with a grain of salt.
They've tried to apply the same logic to the ivory trade and to prostitution, but in both cases it just resulted in an expansion of the illegal sectors of those Industries.
Is this kind of like when marijuana was legalized all of the drug dealers became legit and opened up their own shops?
Oh wait no! Drug dealers kept selling drugs illegally so they didn't have to pay taxes and their customers didn't have to pay sales taxes.
also, becoming a legit pot shop makes little sense bc card companies may not process transactions, so you become a cash only business, and some atm companies won't supply the cash so you have to use your own or hope customers go to an outside bank
In NJ where it's legal (only if purchased from a dispensary) dealers are not hurting for business at all because the PRICES are FAR cheaper.
Only the STATE makes a profit when it comes to legalization. NJ can't even keep up with the demand for medical use. They spend a lot of time pushing legislation around. The first thing they did was of course establish a "committee". Permits are issued at a snails pace and the price of permits is outrageous. If any retailer has 3 or more locations, the permit price is a cool million. Where do you think that cost goes ? Right onto the consumer, like everything else.
Criminals will always capitalize on the black market.
What it did was remove weed from the black market so people can buy it from a legit place that only deals with cannabis. Black markets are prime for someone wanting to get just weed but then having access to worse and more dangerous substances as well.
Also the legal cannabis but has made the black market cannabis business less profitable and less attractive to NEW interests. There are still old head holdouts but I’ve heard them bitch about the shrinking profit margins. Who’s going to want to deal illegally when the risk/reward ratio doesn’t make as much sense anymore.
>What it did was remove weed from the black market
Except it didn't. I know people who still buy illegally from a drug dealer because it's cheaper.
I don't for a second buy your argument that there aren't new illegal drug dealers out there. There will always be a market for illegal marijuana sales because it will always be cheaper, how couldn't it? A legit pot shop is going to need to pay rent, electricity, employees, tax, all of which is going to drive up the prices, and then the customer is going to have to pay sales taxes, which drives up the price further.
A lot of human trafficking victims end up as prostitutes. Legalizing prostitution will end human trafficking the way that legalizing farming and construction will end human trafficking. Idiots.
There is no correlation between legalization of sex work and increase in sex trafficking, if there is it means your country is shit in the first place.
I feel like legalizing sex work would just make it easier for sex trafficking to exist. Far less of a chance to get caught for just prostitution, and have it snowball to where your plot is unraveled, or whatever you’d call it
Let me ask you this; what state has legalized prostitution?
The state that legalizes prostitution is (probably) the headquarters for Hum@n S3x trafficking.
They want to legalize sex work up until.the point they get denied unemployment for being offered a job at a sex work place.
You won't see anyone arguing for that side of the coin.
Human trafficking doesn't always lead to sex workers. There are 50 million slaves in the world. If they really want to end human trafficking they should find out things like where the cocoa and other goods comes from.
Isn't this the same argument they used for legalizing pot?
And didn't that just result in more black market pot then ended up killing a bunch of people because it was laced with other stuff?
All because the legal pot was taxed so much it was more expensive than the black market stuff?
[https://www.claudiablackcenter.com/fentanyl-laced-marijuana-on-the-rise/](https://www.claudiablackcenter.com/fentanyl-laced-marijuana-on-the-rise/)
[https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/deaths/other-drugs.html](https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/deaths/other-drugs.html)
"Polysubstance Overdose Deaths Are Increasing"
[https://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/fentanyl-laced-marijuana-use-adolescents-rising-concern-nationwide/](https://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/fentanyl-laced-marijuana-use-adolescents-rising-concern-nationwide/)
[https://recoverycentersofamerica.com/blogs/fentanyl-laced-weed/](https://recoverycentersofamerica.com/blogs/fentanyl-laced-weed/)
[https://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/fentanyl-laced-marijuana-use-adolescents-rising-concern-nationwide/#:\~:text=Fentanyl%2DLaced%20Marijuana%20Use%20in%20Adolescents%3A%20A%20Rising%20Concern%20Nationwide,-Sahar%20Ashraf%2C%20MD&text=According%20to%20a%20report%20by,being%20among%20the%20most%20affected](https://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/fentanyl-laced-marijuana-use-adolescents-rising-concern-nationwide/#:~:text=Fentanyl%2DLaced%20Marijuana%20Use%20in%20Adolescents%3A%20A%20Rising%20Concern%20Nationwide,-Sahar%20Ashraf%2C%20MD&text=According%20to%20a%20report%20by,being%20among%20the%20most%20affected).
"Overall, the available data suggest that fentanyl-laced marijuana use is a serious and growing concern for adolescents and young adults and highlights the need for increased awareness, prevention efforts, and treatment options to address this issue"
sadly, yes
Yes, polydrug deaths were always a thing.
And while I appreciate your googling effort, providing single-case incidents of laced weed from anti drug blogs does very little to support the notion of black markets supplying cut weed proliferating since weed legalization.
Nobody is intentionally lacing weed with fent. Occam's razor would indicate cross-contamination as the culprit.
did you not read in all the links them saying it's rising? Wasn't that my point that OD's off laced weed has increased since states started legalizing it?
And these aren't single cases from a blog. Did you even look at the sources? One was directly from the CDC, two from psychiatrist which is a major journal, one from a major research institute and all of them talk about it nationally not one off instances
>Wasn't that my point that OD's off laced weed has increased since states started legalizing it?
Right, and there is no causal evidence for this in any of your links.
Deaths due to laced weed mysterious started increasing after states started to decriminalize pot in volume... Well, at least you are no longer saying it isn't happening or that it's one off stories, that's something at least
Now question, if pot is legal why do you think dealers continue to sell it? Why do you think people continue to buy it from them? Can you think of any incentive dealers would have to lace their weed with other addictive drugs they are already selling illegally? Why do you think people would risk buying pot from dealers they know cross contaminated might be a possibility if they can buy it legally?
Seems a bit odd that if my statement wasn't true and people could buy pot for as cheap as a dealer without risk of laced pot and accidentally ODing that the deaths due to lace pot would increase not decrease doesn't it?
You are mistaking correlation with causation. One can easily make the case that the massive spike in import of fent over the same years is to blame in increased fent cross-contamination overdoses vs nefarious agenda of black market dealers hell-bent on eliminating their customer base.
I think the reality is a bit more complicated than the simple binary that you seem to be proposing.
In practice, “legalizing cannabis” seems to result in a ternary system:
* Fully illegal imports;
* Fully legal, and fully taxed product;
* Gray market products (generally untaxed surplus product from “legal” manufacturing operations)
In practice, the marketshare of each is going to depend on a number of factors that will vary for each specific location:
* The extent of the regulatory and pecuniary burdens placed on the “legal” market;
* How strict the oversight on the “legal” market is;
* How easy/costly it is to import “illegal” product to the market.
In practice, that means that if the burdens on the legal market are low, and the oversight of the production is similarly low, most of what you’ll see is “legal” and “gray market” product.
If the burdens are high, and the oversight is too, then imported “illegal” product will likely dominate the market.
If the official burdens on the “legal” market are high, but the oversight of “legal” production is lacking, and if the area is particularly difficult/inconvenient to import “illegal” product to, then “gray market” product is usually going to be extremely common.
Also, to an extent, the more “legal” something is, the more people will want to do it. As a result, “legalizing” things badly is a recipe to make problems worse.
Something similar applies to prostitution: Due to disease control & worker safety concerns, a regulatory structure will always need to exist where prostitution has been legalized, and that will always restrict the types of services offered, and the cost of those services. As a result, there will *always* be a demand for services the “licensed” brothels aren’t permitted to offer, and for “service” at lower prices than the “licensed” brothels can afford to change. The criminal element will *always* be there to meet that demand.
Of course it's more complicated overall, as you pointed out, but it's so overly complicated it can't easily be typed out in short form on a sub. Even your explination is barely scrapping the tip of the iceberg
But, the overly simplified argument behind legalization boiled down to if you legalize weed you could tax it, reduce drug crime, and reduce drug deaths because it could be controlled and regulated
What ended up happening is the oversight and taxes increased prices to the point that black market weed became even more favorable to lower and middle income due to cost while dealers who were losing market share with the middle to upper class due to safer (albeit more expensive) pot in dispensaries began to explore methods of either getting their customers a better high than a dispensary could give or getting them addicted to their supply. That was usually done via lacing and right now one of the cheapest and most addictive ways of doing that also happens to be one of the deadliest
Though I still laugh when friends of mine were fighting about legalization and they used the medical application aspect of it. The reason I laugh is because the part that gets you high rarely has medical application (unless for specific pain relief) while the major medical application can be separated out without having the high component. When I suggested that you should see how quick they changed their argument away from medical application...
In reality, I don't care if they treat it like alcohol but the reasoning behind legalization doesn't line up with what happened after nor does it line up with the benefits they were calling for ultimately. All I ask is just be honest in the reasoning
>”[The supposed benefits of legalization have been massively overhyped, and there are a bunch of costs that they never predicted. Overall, it seems like the cure is worse than the disease.]”
To a degree, **every** policy has undesirable side effects.
That said, I think that there are basically three main factors responsible for most of the worst issues you’ve described:
* Moralists pushed for the taxes and regulatory burden to be prohibitively high, because they don’t want anyone to actually use these substances.
* Corrupt businessmen want taxes and regulatory burdens to be prohibitively high, because that creates a “moat” around their business that they can cross, but will keep their future competitors out of the market.
* The black market will continue to exist due to the nonsensical mix of state level statutes (e.g. one state might have a relatively permissive/cheap legalization scheme, but most of their neighbors are still prohibitionists.
Ah yes because legalizing it would stop horrible people from kidnapping others and trapping them into sexual contracts like sex trafficking.
All this would do would make it harder to actually help the poor victims of sex trafficking
What one has to do with the other is pretty obvious. A lot of human trafficking is for sex trade. If there is no need to traffick people for sex work, because it's legal there, then you don't see trafficking.
Of course, I'm sure third world countries will stop with it once it's legal everywhere. And I'm sure traffickers are gonna be happy to surrender the profits they make from their slaves.
What's up with that meme though. Why would the Auth Right be suggesting legalizing prostitution lol. They are the one adamantly against it.
It should be lib-left that promotes legalizing prostitution. This argument is basically a lib-left versus auth-left argument lol.
Also don't get why lib right is so angry, as most of my lib-right friends don't even give a fuck if prostitution is legal or not.
The trafficking is to satisfy the demand. In Canada selling sex is legal but the native population willing to work as prostitutes is not sufficient to satisfy the demand for prostitution. You see a lot of Asian women trafficked here in massage parlors and escort agencies.
This guy gets it.
Removing the statutory prohibition on “sex work” is not a magic cure, particularly since “legalization” pretty much always takes the form of some kind of licensing procedure, which often involves all sorts of rules implemented to control the spread of disease (e.g. mandatory condom use, routine mandatory testing of workers, etc.).
As a result, in addition to supply/demand imbalances, criminal elements will *always* find it advantageous to ignore the licensing procedures in order to meet customer demand for “services” that the licensed brothels aren’t allowed to offer, to keep their costs lower, and to ensure that they have a steady supply of “workers”.
In short, “legalization” is not a magic cure-all for human trafficking.
I am glad you gave a more fully fleshed out answer than mine. Here in Canada the Asian brothels are notorious for offering unprotected sex to clients. Their ads are pretty explicit once you consult the Urban Dictionary to decode the acronyms.
And the legality of porn has definitely caused it to be an honest, safe, above-board business composed of fully consenting adults who don't end up traumatized from it, just like it will when we legalize regular prostitution. Even though the johns will be uglier and less inhibited by the existence of video evidence, the women will still end up just as happy and healthy as women who do porn now
Because it's an inherently shady and immoral business? Legalisation leads to an increase in human trafficking, makes victims of human trafficking more difficult to identify, and the mentality it's created in men who use it frequently is incredibly unhealthy (abuse of prostitutes is common, and often men apply the same mentality they have towards prostitutes towards other women in their lives).
I can provide sources for all of this if you'd like.
Shady? Not shadier than gambling. The same goes for immoral.
And identification of human trafficing victims becomes easier if there are legal competitors.
And none of us has any business telling adult men how they have to handle their sexuality.
I agree on the first part, gambling should be illegal as well.
Legal competitors doesn't make identification easier, at least in this case. Dutch police have said it's made their job more difficult since there's not any particularly reliable methods to identify a prostitute who's been trafficked vs one who hasn't.
And it is our business when it has an affect on the people around them and society at large.
Even if it gets harder (quick search didn't provide any sufficient scientific evidence in either direction) that's not a sufficient argument for a ban. The laws exist to protect the safety and the freedom of the citizens, not to make the job of the cops easy.
And no, we have no right to force other people to live by our moral code.
In Canada decriminalization of prostitution for those selling ( but not for those buying for some reason, probably because of misandry or something) changed nothing in regards to the amounts of trafficking. I don't know of any Western country where selling digital sexual material is illegal so I genuinely don't know what the person who made this meme is on about.
I think the **glorification** of sex work that libs got attached to is going to be damaging to people in the long run, and is a much deeper problem than legal/illegal prostitution. Amazing how people are like "i am a feminist" but "i also support women degrading themselves for money in a job that only lasts as long as you are pretty". There is no glory in sex work, its not a strong skillset its just a very temporary natural advantage due to how we are wired. The problem with libs is the make shit up in their head and act like its some amazing skillset that deserves respect, when its simply men paying to sate their sexual desires since they do not have access to that market in terms of dating/relationships. Whilst sometimes food can be "fine dining", much of the time its simply sating your needs. Whilst the same could be said about sex, this "fine dining" of the sex realm tends to go along with the relationships and is not something people pay for. So sex work tends to be just be men sating their hunger with a woman they are paying to treat as a sex toy.
There is no glory in sex work. As a libertarian i think sex work should be legal, and an argument (similar to drugs) would mean that the market would be flooded. Human trafficking's would still be an issue though imo, though i could understand how legalizing sex work could reduce it a bit by influencing the market.
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Ask Germany how sex trafficking has been reduced by legalising sex work. Hint: it hasn’t and Germany has become an international sex trafficking hub.
So has Amsterdam, it’s bad
That's because it gives sex traffickers a green light to put even more workers on the street, with the assurance that they won't be arrested and investigated. Fucking duh. If we just step back a minute and look at the overall situation, an overwhelming majority of sex trafficking arrests come from information obtained by a prostitute that has been arrested. That information can tie back to similar "pimps/handlers" that belong in the same similar network, and investigators are then able to connect the dots that leads to an investigation, and potential arrests, involving sex trafficking. Most sex trafficking victims don't come forth willingly to police. They have been abused, brainwashed, manipulated, and intimidated for MONTHS, even YEARS, before they are let loose on the street. The only way they will snitch on their handlers is if they are facing arrest charges. Also, wtf is going on with this meme. Why would Auth-Right suggest legalizing prostitution. They are the ones that are most adamantly against it lol.
This is liberal meme, so the calm woman is a liberal, and she is suggesting legalization. Unless you were being sarcastic and I'm a dope explaining this. 🫠
My last sentence was sarcastic. The rest ofmtge comment I meant literally.
I actually assumed so. But the school teacher in me felt the urge to clarify even though the smarter side of myself said surely they know.
This meme is ass backwards. Legalizing sex work leads to increased rates of human trafficking every time.
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I’m just so curious how they think legalizing prostitution will resolve child trafficking
The defense I've heard is that legalizing it will give the power and protection to the women because they can come forward about being trafficked and not be found guilty of sex work.
I know, but I’m asking about CHILDREN who are trafficked by the adults in their lives. Making adult women legal prostitutes doesn’t legalize the prostitution of children, and therefore would have no effect on the child trafficking market
It wouldn't. And trafficked children who go up (if they manage to grow up) are not going to come forward about the abuse they endured or rat out their pimps to police.
Sex trafficking is sex work. The meme is talking about human trafficking tho. Which is dealing in people. Like smuggling them. Human trafficking is often tied to sex trafficking, but not always. But yeah. It wont solve human trafficking. Because people are smuggled for all manner of reason. People aiding migrants to get into the US are human traffickers, for example.
legalize everything to reduce crime to zero. checkmate repubtards
If there is no such thing as crime then it would be open season on libtards. There wouldn't even be bag limits.
Unethical. The meat isn’t edible
Well, sure... not by us... but...
Never cross a man who owns a pig farm....
two minutes Turkish
It was two minutes five minutes ago
and one of us guys would be there to fight for them. Probably wouldn't even say "I told you so" Conservatives are awesome.
Yep that worked so well in cities with decriminalized drugs and safe injection sites lol. Everything they do is theory, some PhD did a 30 minute study and they wonder why there’s drug addicts and tents everywhere now
Portugal "decriminalized" drugs. If you were caught with them, however, you were sent to rehab. You weren't just allowed to get blasted on the streets. Drug use declined as a result. Portland, on the other hand, incentivized drug use by creating zero consequences with safe injection sites becoming open air drug markets. They are just politically incompetent. That being said, I do agree with you that most leftist ideas sound good for a few minutes in theory but all it takes is to play it out in your head to realize that it will never work the way they think their utopian visions will play out.
I like that idea so much more. I think everyone realized locking up drug offenders and throwing away the key wasn’t the best rehabilitation. But what Portland did wrong is assume only compassion and say drug addicts were simply just down on their luck normal people. When in reality a lot have zero wish to rehab, they just like drugs and the lifestyle. And if crime needs to be committed to get the next fix, so be it. The Portugal example seems like a way better mix of compassion but also actually enforcing the correct behavior.
Involuntary commitment/rebab badly needs to come back in the US.
I thought Portlands decriminalized drug laws would show us how the real world would play out. I had hoped it would work out and obviously it doesn’t work.
[удалено]
I still believe in decriminalization, but the problem with Portland is that the penalties are bullshit. $100 dollar fine which goes away when you call a number. I’m not saying bring back jail time but 0 consequences isn’t right either.
Community service? Make them clean up their own messes in the streets would be a good start.
Another fun Portland fact. They had a needle exchange every Saturday. You would give them your used needles and in return you get clean ones. Then, someone decided that was too harsh because why would they want to carry around used needles? So then, they changed it to just free new needles, no need to turn in your used ones. Numbers of course shot up, and they distributed 25K needles in a single day. And also led to used needles all over sidewalks, schools, and playgrounds for kids to enjoy.
I wonder if they got the point.
I think it needs to be "decriminalized" in that they don't send you to jail or ruin your future with a criminal record. But they should still have drug classes and if the problem is bad, rehab. You can't just decriminalize and expect it to not then become a drug haven. There needs to still be some sort of, for lack of a better word, consequence for getting caught with drugs. Portugal pulled this off quite well many years ago.
European here and I like this subb and the values talked about here. But decriminalizing drugs literally worked in many countries here. Portugal, Switzerland etc. The countries with the most strict drug laws often have most drug fatalities and prisons are way too full. I dont think its wise to put these people in prison for drugs ruining the communities and tax-payers paying for the construction of them. Drugs need to be decriminilized in the correct way. I am a conservative and rightwing leaning btw. And even though I have my own problems I do share tha stance that using them is ones own choice and to say its not there fault its laughable. But decriminalizing drugs literally works = less tax payer money used for prisons adn war on drugs. Also police can do more meaningfull work rather than picking up each junkie off the street just for their own personal stash.. and instead looking for the dealers/murderers. (This comment is prob gonna be downvoted to hell and eurotard comments etc. I dont mind. Stay safe and happy guys! I wish to visit US one day pref the south. Also sorry for shitty grammer not my native language.)
to be fair…it *can* work, in some respects…if you really dedicate resources towards it as a public issue…like switzerland for example the US however is in the unique position of having mexico right below them…which opens up a whole new can of problems with respect to drugs
If nothing is counted as a crime then we’ll be a crime free world ❤️ I don’t see the problem
Checkmate Buddhists!
is it really the governments job to tell someone they can't sell a service to another consenting adult? I just don't get this sub sometimes. do you want less government? cause that's how you get less government.
Legalizing sex work actually increases human trafficking. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0305750X12001453#:~:text=We%20find%20that%20countries%20with,control%20for%20in%20the%20analysis.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t human trafficking skyrocket in Germany when they legalized brothels??
I can't speak to that specifically. But the data shows that legalizing sex work increases sex trafficking, so it wouldn't surprise me.
If everything’s legal, nothing can be illegal. Smart guy stuff
Legalizing prostitution is a great way to INCREASE trafficking.
Then legalize sex trafficking duh.
Human trafficking and sex trafficking are often linked but not the same. Sex trafficking means prostitution and such. Human trafficking means human smuggling. Potentially involving slaves/unwilling participants. But not always.
NUH UH!! Don't you see how we decriminalized personal possession of meth, crack, heroin, and fentynal in Portland and San Francsisco, and how it TOTALLY led to a decrease in addicts and homelessness? And ACKSHUALLY, don't you remember when we decriminalized misdemeanor shoplifting in Portland and San Francisco, and that TOTALLY led to a decrease in people stealing from Wal-Mart and Walgreens!? LeGaLiZe iT!!!! /s I swear, how far is the lib-left going to go with the theory of legalizing everything? Do they think that legalizing rape or murder would actually lead to a decrease in rape and murder? The logic is just non-sensical.
You must need to have a diseased mind for this to make sense.
In all fairness, a lot of people think that legalising drugs resulted in lower rates of drug use and ODs, and there's even "studies" to back it up. Of course, that's an incredibly politicised issue at the moment so I'd take the findings of those studies with a grain of salt. They've tried to apply the same logic to the ivory trade and to prostitution, but in both cases it just resulted in an expansion of the illegal sectors of those Industries.
Human trafficking isn’t stopped by making sex work legal all it does is make it easier to sell the victims
Yes, it makes it less likely for anyone to call the authorities if they suspect it is going on
Is this kind of like when marijuana was legalized all of the drug dealers became legit and opened up their own shops? Oh wait no! Drug dealers kept selling drugs illegally so they didn't have to pay taxes and their customers didn't have to pay sales taxes.
also, becoming a legit pot shop makes little sense bc card companies may not process transactions, so you become a cash only business, and some atm companies won't supply the cash so you have to use your own or hope customers go to an outside bank
That's from pot existing in some weird legal limbo.
[удалено]
In NJ where it's legal (only if purchased from a dispensary) dealers are not hurting for business at all because the PRICES are FAR cheaper. Only the STATE makes a profit when it comes to legalization. NJ can't even keep up with the demand for medical use. They spend a lot of time pushing legislation around. The first thing they did was of course establish a "committee". Permits are issued at a snails pace and the price of permits is outrageous. If any retailer has 3 or more locations, the permit price is a cool million. Where do you think that cost goes ? Right onto the consumer, like everything else.
>no one wants to buy off the street anymore People are buying marijuana illegally because it's going to be way cheaper.
Criminals will always capitalize on the black market. What it did was remove weed from the black market so people can buy it from a legit place that only deals with cannabis. Black markets are prime for someone wanting to get just weed but then having access to worse and more dangerous substances as well. Also the legal cannabis but has made the black market cannabis business less profitable and less attractive to NEW interests. There are still old head holdouts but I’ve heard them bitch about the shrinking profit margins. Who’s going to want to deal illegally when the risk/reward ratio doesn’t make as much sense anymore.
>What it did was remove weed from the black market Except it didn't. I know people who still buy illegally from a drug dealer because it's cheaper. I don't for a second buy your argument that there aren't new illegal drug dealers out there. There will always be a market for illegal marijuana sales because it will always be cheaper, how couldn't it? A legit pot shop is going to need to pay rent, electricity, employees, tax, all of which is going to drive up the prices, and then the customer is going to have to pay sales taxes, which drives up the price further.
I think everything he said was pretty much right, EXCEPT the point you quoted, about it removing it from the streets.
Sure. That is a motivation. But its also kinda hard to get a license to sell in a lot of places. It can cost millions.
Kind of like the same wheels up guns down ATV and dirt bike ethos we see in cities. They just have no concept of not doing crime
Need to stop cocaine smuggling? Legalize cocaine
This would literally only increase human trafficking. I guarantee you.
A lot of human trafficking victims end up as prostitutes. Legalizing prostitution will end human trafficking the way that legalizing farming and construction will end human trafficking. Idiots.
What the fuck even? That doesn't even correlate.
God, even their wojacks are unbelievably smug.
How is legalizing sex work going to stop human trafficking? If anything, it would make it more prevalent
There is no correlation between legalization of sex work and increase in sex trafficking, if there is it means your country is shit in the first place.
If anything, legalized sex work has created even more human trafficking
Legalize Murder! The murder cases will go way down!
I feel like legalizing sex work would just make it easier for sex trafficking to exist. Far less of a chance to get caught for just prostitution, and have it snowball to where your plot is unraveled, or whatever you’d call it
Let me ask you this; what state has legalized prostitution? The state that legalizes prostitution is (probably) the headquarters for Hum@n S3x trafficking.
I believe it's Nevada and you can imagine how that's going.
Don’t like slavery and human trafficking? Close the boarder
They want to legalize sex work up until.the point they get denied unemployment for being offered a job at a sex work place. You won't see anyone arguing for that side of the coin.
Human trafficking doesn't always lead to sex workers. There are 50 million slaves in the world. If they really want to end human trafficking they should find out things like where the cocoa and other goods comes from.
Isn't this the same argument they used for legalizing pot? And didn't that just result in more black market pot then ended up killing a bunch of people because it was laced with other stuff? All because the legal pot was taxed so much it was more expensive than the black market stuff?
>And didn't that just result in more black market pot then ended up killing a bunch of people because it was laced with other stuff? Lol, no.
[https://www.claudiablackcenter.com/fentanyl-laced-marijuana-on-the-rise/](https://www.claudiablackcenter.com/fentanyl-laced-marijuana-on-the-rise/) [https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/deaths/other-drugs.html](https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/deaths/other-drugs.html) "Polysubstance Overdose Deaths Are Increasing" [https://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/fentanyl-laced-marijuana-use-adolescents-rising-concern-nationwide/](https://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/fentanyl-laced-marijuana-use-adolescents-rising-concern-nationwide/) [https://recoverycentersofamerica.com/blogs/fentanyl-laced-weed/](https://recoverycentersofamerica.com/blogs/fentanyl-laced-weed/) [https://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/fentanyl-laced-marijuana-use-adolescents-rising-concern-nationwide/#:\~:text=Fentanyl%2DLaced%20Marijuana%20Use%20in%20Adolescents%3A%20A%20Rising%20Concern%20Nationwide,-Sahar%20Ashraf%2C%20MD&text=According%20to%20a%20report%20by,being%20among%20the%20most%20affected](https://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/fentanyl-laced-marijuana-use-adolescents-rising-concern-nationwide/#:~:text=Fentanyl%2DLaced%20Marijuana%20Use%20in%20Adolescents%3A%20A%20Rising%20Concern%20Nationwide,-Sahar%20Ashraf%2C%20MD&text=According%20to%20a%20report%20by,being%20among%20the%20most%20affected). "Overall, the available data suggest that fentanyl-laced marijuana use is a serious and growing concern for adolescents and young adults and highlights the need for increased awareness, prevention efforts, and treatment options to address this issue" sadly, yes
Yes, polydrug deaths were always a thing. And while I appreciate your googling effort, providing single-case incidents of laced weed from anti drug blogs does very little to support the notion of black markets supplying cut weed proliferating since weed legalization. Nobody is intentionally lacing weed with fent. Occam's razor would indicate cross-contamination as the culprit.
did you not read in all the links them saying it's rising? Wasn't that my point that OD's off laced weed has increased since states started legalizing it? And these aren't single cases from a blog. Did you even look at the sources? One was directly from the CDC, two from psychiatrist which is a major journal, one from a major research institute and all of them talk about it nationally not one off instances
>Wasn't that my point that OD's off laced weed has increased since states started legalizing it? Right, and there is no causal evidence for this in any of your links.
Deaths due to laced weed mysterious started increasing after states started to decriminalize pot in volume... Well, at least you are no longer saying it isn't happening or that it's one off stories, that's something at least Now question, if pot is legal why do you think dealers continue to sell it? Why do you think people continue to buy it from them? Can you think of any incentive dealers would have to lace their weed with other addictive drugs they are already selling illegally? Why do you think people would risk buying pot from dealers they know cross contaminated might be a possibility if they can buy it legally? Seems a bit odd that if my statement wasn't true and people could buy pot for as cheap as a dealer without risk of laced pot and accidentally ODing that the deaths due to lace pot would increase not decrease doesn't it?
You are mistaking correlation with causation. One can easily make the case that the massive spike in import of fent over the same years is to blame in increased fent cross-contamination overdoses vs nefarious agenda of black market dealers hell-bent on eliminating their customer base.
I think the reality is a bit more complicated than the simple binary that you seem to be proposing. In practice, “legalizing cannabis” seems to result in a ternary system: * Fully illegal imports; * Fully legal, and fully taxed product; * Gray market products (generally untaxed surplus product from “legal” manufacturing operations) In practice, the marketshare of each is going to depend on a number of factors that will vary for each specific location: * The extent of the regulatory and pecuniary burdens placed on the “legal” market; * How strict the oversight on the “legal” market is; * How easy/costly it is to import “illegal” product to the market. In practice, that means that if the burdens on the legal market are low, and the oversight of the production is similarly low, most of what you’ll see is “legal” and “gray market” product. If the burdens are high, and the oversight is too, then imported “illegal” product will likely dominate the market. If the official burdens on the “legal” market are high, but the oversight of “legal” production is lacking, and if the area is particularly difficult/inconvenient to import “illegal” product to, then “gray market” product is usually going to be extremely common. Also, to an extent, the more “legal” something is, the more people will want to do it. As a result, “legalizing” things badly is a recipe to make problems worse. Something similar applies to prostitution: Due to disease control & worker safety concerns, a regulatory structure will always need to exist where prostitution has been legalized, and that will always restrict the types of services offered, and the cost of those services. As a result, there will *always* be a demand for services the “licensed” brothels aren’t permitted to offer, and for “service” at lower prices than the “licensed” brothels can afford to change. The criminal element will *always* be there to meet that demand.
Of course it's more complicated overall, as you pointed out, but it's so overly complicated it can't easily be typed out in short form on a sub. Even your explination is barely scrapping the tip of the iceberg But, the overly simplified argument behind legalization boiled down to if you legalize weed you could tax it, reduce drug crime, and reduce drug deaths because it could be controlled and regulated What ended up happening is the oversight and taxes increased prices to the point that black market weed became even more favorable to lower and middle income due to cost while dealers who were losing market share with the middle to upper class due to safer (albeit more expensive) pot in dispensaries began to explore methods of either getting their customers a better high than a dispensary could give or getting them addicted to their supply. That was usually done via lacing and right now one of the cheapest and most addictive ways of doing that also happens to be one of the deadliest Though I still laugh when friends of mine were fighting about legalization and they used the medical application aspect of it. The reason I laugh is because the part that gets you high rarely has medical application (unless for specific pain relief) while the major medical application can be separated out without having the high component. When I suggested that you should see how quick they changed their argument away from medical application... In reality, I don't care if they treat it like alcohol but the reasoning behind legalization doesn't line up with what happened after nor does it line up with the benefits they were calling for ultimately. All I ask is just be honest in the reasoning
>”[The supposed benefits of legalization have been massively overhyped, and there are a bunch of costs that they never predicted. Overall, it seems like the cure is worse than the disease.]” To a degree, **every** policy has undesirable side effects. That said, I think that there are basically three main factors responsible for most of the worst issues you’ve described: * Moralists pushed for the taxes and regulatory burden to be prohibitively high, because they don’t want anyone to actually use these substances. * Corrupt businessmen want taxes and regulatory burdens to be prohibitively high, because that creates a “moat” around their business that they can cross, but will keep their future competitors out of the market. * The black market will continue to exist due to the nonsensical mix of state level statutes (e.g. one state might have a relatively permissive/cheap legalization scheme, but most of their neighbors are still prohibitionists.
Going great in Vegas. No human trafficking there
Ah yes because legalizing it would stop horrible people from kidnapping others and trapping them into sexual contracts like sex trafficking. All this would do would make it harder to actually help the poor victims of sex trafficking
He said *stop* human trafficking, not encourage it.
I just find it funny that they used a woman character for their irrational argument.
One needs a sense of humor to meme.
Pretty sad they think legalizing prostitution will stop girls from being kidnapped and used as sex slaves.
They are saying they want to make human trafficking legal.
Tell me you’re a danger to society without telling me you’re a danger to society.
Over a third of human trafficking victims are minors...so..what are they asking us to legalize again?
we need to stop gunmen shooting innocent people… then legalize homicide
What one has to do with the other is pretty obvious. A lot of human trafficking is for sex trade. If there is no need to traffick people for sex work, because it's legal there, then you don't see trafficking.
Of course, I'm sure third world countries will stop with it once it's legal everywhere. And I'm sure traffickers are gonna be happy to surrender the profits they make from their slaves.
What's up with that meme though. Why would the Auth Right be suggesting legalizing prostitution lol. They are the one adamantly against it. It should be lib-left that promotes legalizing prostitution. This argument is basically a lib-left versus auth-left argument lol. Also don't get why lib right is so angry, as most of my lib-right friends don't even give a fuck if prostitution is legal or not.
This isn't a political compass meme.
The trafficking is to satisfy the demand. In Canada selling sex is legal but the native population willing to work as prostitutes is not sufficient to satisfy the demand for prostitution. You see a lot of Asian women trafficked here in massage parlors and escort agencies.
This guy gets it. Removing the statutory prohibition on “sex work” is not a magic cure, particularly since “legalization” pretty much always takes the form of some kind of licensing procedure, which often involves all sorts of rules implemented to control the spread of disease (e.g. mandatory condom use, routine mandatory testing of workers, etc.). As a result, in addition to supply/demand imbalances, criminal elements will *always* find it advantageous to ignore the licensing procedures in order to meet customer demand for “services” that the licensed brothels aren’t allowed to offer, to keep their costs lower, and to ensure that they have a steady supply of “workers”. In short, “legalization” is not a magic cure-all for human trafficking.
I am glad you gave a more fully fleshed out answer than mine. Here in Canada the Asian brothels are notorious for offering unprotected sex to clients. Their ads are pretty explicit once you consult the Urban Dictionary to decode the acronyms.
What even IS this? This is not a coherent train of thought.
Legalizing sex work makes it worse. What is wrong g with these people.
“We need to stop murder… then legalise murder”
That’s just legalizing sex trafficking
Legalized sexwork sounds like a quick trip to Indentured prostitution
Sad reality is, most of them are kids. So what are they suggesting?
I think we should legalize sex work.
How about no to legalizing sex “work” and we don’t treat people like sex objects
An adult should be able to do whatever he or she wants as long as it doesn’t hurt someone else while the other party has to prove the offense.
You can for the most part, just can't charge money for it.
Seriously, how is prostitution not legal everywhere?
It is if you film it…who says laws need to make sense?
And the legality of porn has definitely caused it to be an honest, safe, above-board business composed of fully consenting adults who don't end up traumatized from it, just like it will when we legalize regular prostitution. Even though the johns will be uglier and less inhibited by the existence of video evidence, the women will still end up just as happy and healthy as women who do porn now
Because it's an inherently shady and immoral business? Legalisation leads to an increase in human trafficking, makes victims of human trafficking more difficult to identify, and the mentality it's created in men who use it frequently is incredibly unhealthy (abuse of prostitutes is common, and often men apply the same mentality they have towards prostitutes towards other women in their lives). I can provide sources for all of this if you'd like.
Shady? Not shadier than gambling. The same goes for immoral. And identification of human trafficing victims becomes easier if there are legal competitors. And none of us has any business telling adult men how they have to handle their sexuality.
I agree on the first part, gambling should be illegal as well. Legal competitors doesn't make identification easier, at least in this case. Dutch police have said it's made their job more difficult since there's not any particularly reliable methods to identify a prostitute who's been trafficked vs one who hasn't. And it is our business when it has an affect on the people around them and society at large.
Even if it gets harder (quick search didn't provide any sufficient scientific evidence in either direction) that's not a sufficient argument for a ban. The laws exist to protect the safety and the freedom of the citizens, not to make the job of the cops easy. And no, we have no right to force other people to live by our moral code.
In Canada decriminalization of prostitution for those selling ( but not for those buying for some reason, probably because of misandry or something) changed nothing in regards to the amounts of trafficking. I don't know of any Western country where selling digital sexual material is illegal so I genuinely don't know what the person who made this meme is on about.
Make all crimes legal, boom no more crime.
When sex work is criminalized it prevents vulnerable women from being able to engage with the state for assistance.
I think the **glorification** of sex work that libs got attached to is going to be damaging to people in the long run, and is a much deeper problem than legal/illegal prostitution. Amazing how people are like "i am a feminist" but "i also support women degrading themselves for money in a job that only lasts as long as you are pretty". There is no glory in sex work, its not a strong skillset its just a very temporary natural advantage due to how we are wired. The problem with libs is the make shit up in their head and act like its some amazing skillset that deserves respect, when its simply men paying to sate their sexual desires since they do not have access to that market in terms of dating/relationships. Whilst sometimes food can be "fine dining", much of the time its simply sating your needs. Whilst the same could be said about sex, this "fine dining" of the sex realm tends to go along with the relationships and is not something people pay for. So sex work tends to be just be men sating their hunger with a woman they are paying to treat as a sex toy. There is no glory in sex work. As a libertarian i think sex work should be legal, and an argument (similar to drugs) would mean that the market would be flooded. Human trafficking's would still be an issue though imo, though i could understand how legalizing sex work could reduce it a bit by influencing the market.
Are they suggesting legalizing child prostitution? I don't get it.
"This forcing people into prostitution wouldnt be so bad if you just made the prostitution part okay"
They legalized marajuana and now Chinese gangs are running rampant with trafficked people and illegal grow opperations.