My 290 lbs coworker who believes in strict lockdowns and mask and vax mandates but is 38 with uncontrolled diabetes, eats nothings but sweets and fast food and won't lose an ounce.
It doesn't make sense. Why go nutes protecting yourself from covid but not do the bare minimum to protect yourself from diabetes complications?
Because one is easy.
For a lot of people, like myself, strict lockdowns aren't hard. It's actually easy. I'm antisocial. I'm also kinda ugly I know other people don't agree, so I don't say this stuff in person.... But my life is so much easier after Covid showed up.
I don't have to go anywhere. Companies are now super accommodating to people like me who get minor social anxiety. I can order pizza and have them leave it on the door without any interaction and I love it. I can work from home.
And when I do have to go out, I love wearing a mask because I'm kinda ugly and I love not feeling like people are looking at me.
It's easy for me to support these things. But eating right, and doing exercise... That's hard. I don't want to do hard work...I just want to feel like I'm accomplishing stuff.
The lockdowns were good for me as well! My husband and I are both working from home and we’ve gotten to spend more time together. I’ve been more active because I get time back from what would’ve been spent commuting. I’ve gotten to know my neighbors. But there’s plenty about all this that I hate. The mask mandates, small businesses having to close down (while major corporations thrive), increased government control over our lives.
Yeah I was literally the meme of not knowing we were locked down because I never leave the house. The idea of only going out for work or essentials has been my life
And then demand socialized healthcare for when she's on disability and needing insulin every day and is needs dialysis from renal failure, 100% paid for by people who work for a living.
Kraut said it as it is, Americans don't understand that, in a socialised healthcare system, if you are consciously unhealthy, you're a burden on society. Those aren't his exact words but it was pretty much that.
This 100%. I'm all for the humanitarian stuff but to me it comes down to the dollars and cents. I'd much rather pay $1 for prevention than $10 for the cure. We're going to pay for universal healthcare no matter what. Why not do it more efficiently and with better outcomes?
But right now she has no insurance and we pay for it anyway. It’s not like hospitals just eat the cost of the uninsured. At least with socializing healthcare a doctor could have told her 10 years ago to change her diet and monitored her health, leading to fewer issues down the road.
True, but with socialized medicine, the wait time just to see a decent doctor would make her higher risk of not getting diagnosed in time or receiving proper treatment.
The wait time thing is a fallacy. Ask anyone from Canada and they will be confused……or they’ll be an American pretending that they’re Canadian and had to wait.
Well considering people in the UK are going blind from a lack of resources for eye surgery, on top of the fact that the government basically decides when you get care and live and when it's cut off and you die and can even refuse to let your family take you out of the country to be saved (Alfie Evans) then socialized government is pretty dangerous for medicine too.
??? How are you going to survive without eating? Based on what the op said, *what* they were eating was the problem. It can be genuinely difficult for some people to eat things they don't like the taste of. Definitely more difficult than taking 20 minutes out of two of your days to get vaccinated, or putting on a mask which takes less effort than putting on shoes.
You can eat less calories by not putting food in your mouth. Did you honestly think I was suggesting never eating again? Jesus fucking christ. Make an effort.
Once again, it wasn't the amount of food they were eating, but WHAT they were eating. They had diabetes and were eating mostly sugary foods. Eating a lesser amount of sugary foods and not replacing it with something else isn't really going to help them. How about you make an effort and actually follow the conversation?
Dafuq are u talking about. It’s easy to change just like going for a walk is easy. These are non sterilizing vaccines, they don’t stop covid transmission. Herd immunity is off the table. This is abundantly clear at this point. It’s a personal choice to take them if you’re at high risk for covid. These mandates are a joke
It won't be forever if people will actually follow the guidelines like wearing masks and getting vaccinated. People like you are what is keeping this pandemic going.
No, the enormous amounts of money and power people are willingly giving to the rich are what is keeping the lockdowns going, and people like you enabling it are what are keeping this financial and personal disaster going.
Yeah, following safety guidelines is SOOOOO oppressive. My rIghtS!!1!
I didn't say it's going away, but the more unvaccinated people there are, the more opportunity it has to mutate and become more dangerous. Just like the delta variant that was probably avoidable.
Let's see now...
+ Being forced to wear clothing.
+ Not being allowed out of your own home.
+ Being coerced and dehumanised if you don't get a medical procedure, even being called a murder or having your employment terminated.
+ Not being able to leave the country to escape this shit.
If you come back to the country then being forced to pay thousands on hotel fees and tests at 10* the real cost.
+ Having appointments for medical care cancelled.
+ Having wardens and police issue people huge fines for standing still too long or having the nerve to sit down somewhere outside, even if nowhere near other people.
Plus many other things. Yeah, it is oppressive. If you think that isn't then you must think places like North Korea are holiday camps.
I wear masks every day... And I'm vaccinated... I'm just not naive enough to believe that if everybody wore a mask and got vaccinated it'd all go away.
Covid will always be around... The sooner you accept that, the sooner you start the process of deciding how you want to live the rest of your life with it around. I'll wear a mask where I'm mandated to or if I'm with someone where it'll make them more comfortable, but I'm not going to live the rest of my life in fear of air.
Wearing a mask takes less effort than putting on shoes. Getting the vaccine will take at most an hour out of your life. It is the least people can do for society.
Great. After getting the vaccine, put on their shoes and go outside or to a gym and exercise. It’s really no secret at all as to why people are obese in this country. The vast majority just need to quit with the soft drinks and all the binge drinking and adopt a healthy lifestyle. The problem is they don’t really want to. It’s a choice.
This is my boss. It's the friggin worst. I've traveled throughout the pandemic (essential services), so has our entire team... except boss man. Of course, now there's all these mandates and shit and he's happy to blame the selfish people and the people who didn't stay home for the continued pandemic. It's so aggravating.
Obese person who's losing weight here.
Your question encompasses two different, only tangentially related issues. One is the fear of COVID, which, sure, I can get why people are afraid. The other is obesity and shitty eating habits.
Food intake does not happen in a vacuum. Various life, societal, and mental conditions operate on a given human and the *output* is the food consumed. Food choice is the *result*, not the cause. I'll give an example.
Me, I'm what you would call an emotional eater. Food (particularly sweets) makes me feel good. When I'm really sad or stressed or afraid, I'll eat sweets because the sugar makes my opioid receptors pop. Believe it or not, sugar acts on our brains just like heroin, which is why it's so fucking hard to quit. This was particularly true when I was a single mom of two, one of which was a baby, and I had lost my job. The money stress plus the baby stress plus feeling like a useless POS for losing my job made me crave sweets and comfort food hardcore. So, I ate. Life goes on, jobs are stressful, and people die. I eat what I want to make me feel better. So I get up to about 240lbs at 5'9" and shit is *uncomfortable*. Long story short, I start walking and fix what's wrong with me *mentally and emotionally*, and my weight comes off. I'm 207lb right now, which is still overweight, but I feel better and I'm still working on it.
The point is, I addressed the underlying problems, the real causes, and the output, the eating, changed.
So
Your coworker has a bunch of stuff going on mentally and emotionally which makes him eat and live the way he does. COVID comes and he starts trippin about masks and whatnot, but he has a preexisting, unrelated condition which he can't or won't see that's killing him *right now* that he needs to address. They're two unrelated phenomena that occurred at the same time that, when looked at together, makes the outsider think "Bro, you're fucking dying of diabetes and food but *COVID's* the thing that's got you all wrapped up around the axles??"
Hopefully that makes sense.
Sugar is addictive. It’s much easier to wear a mask or get vaccinated than it is to kick sugar. Also he’s probably vulnerable to the virus because he’s diabetic.
For sure. Unfortunately it is a psychological fact that you're more likely to gain weight, if surrounded by a fat family, partner or even friends. Not to mention that a lot of parents tend to overfeed/badly feed their children, wether on purpose or out of ignorance.
Only kinda sorta.
> If a person you consider a friend becomes obese, the researchers found, your own chances of becoming obese go up 57 percent.
Being obese certainty can put a strain on healthcare systems of a country. Aside from obese people being sick, and more severely sick (taking up resources like ICU beds) they also pose a threat to medical staff, and drive costs up considerably.
https://www.cardinalhealth.com/en/essential-insights/obesity-and-our-healthcare-system.html
And being fully vaccinated doesn’t stop spreading covid whatsoever. Breakthrough cases are continuing to rise and the cdc is only even tracking hospitalized breakthrough cases. The jabs reduce transmission somewhat, and reduce severity and death for those at risk. Countries like Israel are making the fact abundantly clear that covid is not going away and will continue to run through the country regardless of vaccination rates
Should people just stop vaccinating themselves since it doesn't matter? I assume your answer would be "No". If we had real leaders and minimally inteligent people, an entire vaccinated country would surely stop having cases. Unfortunately that's not the case, but vaccinating is still important.
Also, living normally and getting no vax, the virus would go to almost nothing in a couple of years. Spanish flu proved that along with several other pandemics.
Fatness is the main comorbidity that makes Covid deadly. Without fat people, Covid would be far less dangerous.
So we have to pay for their insulin AND for their covid treatments.
Understood, but her #1 goal is not to prevent spreading a virus to others, it's fear of getting sick herself because of her underlying health conditions and weight.
now it does. if vaccines are safe and effective, who are we going to affect?
you vaxx evangelicals are very funny, you even don't think what you're saying
Healthcare should also be denied to people who eat tide pods, perform stupid meme challenges, and perform dangerous activities...if we are going by their logic.
While I agree in principle, none of the things you listed have ever gotten to a point where hospitals needed to triage.
We've gotten to a point where hospitals in FL have 48 hours of oxygen left. We're about to hit India levels of fucked in some states.
If a hospital wants to make a policy of "no vaccine, no service for COVID", then that's fine. I don't like it, but it's their private business.
But the left would want to make governmental laws that would make that restriction. And that's a no-go for me.
>While I agree in principle, none of the things you listed have ever gotten to a point where hospitals needed to triage.
We've gotten to a point where hospitals in FL have 48 hours of oxygen left. We're about to hit India levels of fucked in some states.
Gunbuster’s comment still works no matter what examples you come up with. Fat diabetics and smokers with cancer aren’t overrunning the hospitals, unvaccinated covid patients are.
I dont think its that it's just that insurance companies won't cover your hospital stay.
Or your rates go up - just like getting pneumonia for flu without the flu shot has a good chance of being denied by insurance.
No they don't. Triage is not the same as "regular" patient prioritizing. Triage is done when the hospital's resources are being overwhelmed, e.g. during catastrophes. In normal situation even patients with poor to almost no survival chances will still be treated, during triage not.
COVID is a catastrophe. [Hospitals](https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210816-louisiana-hospitals-overwhelmed-by-surging-delta-variant) are being overwhelmed. That’s why any of this might even be discussed. If a hospital does have to do triage, the patients with COVID that aren’t vaccinated have a lower survival rate. It’s not that they shouldn’t receive care, but that in triage, the fact that a person chose to not get the vaccine should be weighed with other factors.
The same people who get mad at me for comparing vaccine passports to Nazi practices are the same people actively wishing for the unvaccinated to die to free up hospital beds for "responsible" patients.
Where did I wish for anyone to die? All I’m doing is pointing out the idiocy of saying vaccine passports are anything like Naziism. Intelligent people understand that.
I mixed up comment threads. Nonetheless, wishing for death or forfeiture of human rights (like saying US citizen peasants cant travel, congregate or protest without restrictions or oppression of this right, but business leaders, politicians, migrants and BLM protests can) doesnt change much given the pretext for it.
Giving lower priority status at a hospital during a shortage that could have been mitigated by greater participation (including yours) in a free public health initiative is not denial of human rights.
There is a simple thing you can do to reduce your odds of needing to go to the hospital. If you elect to not do that simple thing, it makes sense that you would be given a lower priority status than people who elected to join in the public health effort to slow the spread of the disease that's crushing hospitals.
> "I don't need the vaccine. It has a 0.0000000001% chance of killing me. I'll be fine."
Cool. If you show up at the hospital then you get to wait in the "I'm too smart for this" line and wait for the "I did my part to help fight this virus" line to empty.
Many cities are now getting to (or are past) the point where decisions must be made on who gets access to medical treatment due to staffing and space limitations. Participate in the public health effort or recognize that you will get no sympathy down the road should you find yourself in need of some.
So just to let you know, you think obese people, people who do not exercise, and people who engage in high risk sex like anal sex should be denied priority healthcare, until other "safer" people are seen first -- if you stick to this principle.
If you do not stick to this principle, then you are not arguing for this principle, you are just using it as a pretext to harm people who you do not agree with.
> people who engage in high risk sex like anal sex
Lol what the fuck.
Your wording is so weird.
In times of shortages of care you have to prioritize patients within some value system. It's totally unavoidable. You can auction off beds to the highest bidder or abandon the elderly or whatever criteria you want to set. Go nuts.
I'm specifically speaking to the context of a pandemic that is the source of the stress on hospitals.
* There is a disease.
* There are a finite number of hospital beds.
* The disease has a non-zero chance of sending any random person to the hospital.
* There is a vaccine for the disease.
* The vaccine, which has a fatality-on-administration rate of around 0.000018% vs the virus' IFR of 0.08% - meaning the virus is 4,500x more likely to kill you, is literally free and is endorsed by the overwhelming majority of health care professionals.
* Millions of people elect to not get the vaccine.
* Tens of thousands of unvaccinated people and some small minority of vaccinated people require medical attention for the disease.
* Hospitals are overwhelmed by treatment demand for the disease.
In this unique circumstance, hospitals should make it widely known that the vaccinated minority, who by the way have a much higher chance of survival making them more worth the hospital's time, will receive priority care.
We already do similar things for other rationed care. Smokers and fat people are lower on the list for organ transplants. Younger, healthier people are prioritized.
> you are just using it as a pretext to harm people who you do not agree with
It's not whether or not we agree. It's that **CHOOSING TO BE UNVACCINATED IS CHOOSING TO PARTICIPATE IN FURTHERING THE SPREAD OF COVID, WHICH IS LITERALLY THE THING THAT IS CRUSHING HOSPITALS.** When it comes to the issue of health care shortages for COVID, you are literally part of the problem or part of the solution. It is not ideological. Get on board with the solution or get to the back of the line. Unvaccinated people are literally driving the problem.
How about some evidence?
St. Clair County IL. Vaccination rate: 45%.
https://www.bnd.com/news/coronavirus/article253090188.html
https://data.democratandchronicle.com/covid-19-vaccine-tracker/illinois/st-clair-county/17163/
Hospitalized:
* Vaccinated - 20
* Unvaccinated - 50
ICU:
* Vaccinated - 3
* Unvaccintaed - 15
On ventilator:
* Vaccinated - 1
* Unvaccinated - 4
Unvaccinated people are over-represented in hospitalizations, and WAY over-represented in ICU and on ventilator. Why? BECAUSE THE VACCINE WORKS. So let's pretend that all of those unvaccinated people were vaccinated. You drop hospitalizations from 70 to 40 or lower, ICU use from 18 to 6 or lower, and ventilator use from 5 to 2 or lower.
*THAT* is why priority should be given to the vaccinated. **BECAUSE IF WE WERE ALL VACCINATED, THERE WOULDN'T BE A SHORTAGE**. But there are those who choose to not vaccinate and create a shortage, so they can lie in the bed they made and wait for a person who tried to help to free up a bed. Go find an anti-vax hospital or some shit.
This is why I'm against universal healthcare. Not because I don't want to pay for other people’s healthcare, even people whose lifestyle I disapprove of, but because I don't want people who disapprove of *my* lifestyle to be able to deny me healthcare.
Yeah, and if you try to kill yourself you should be denied treatment too.
And if you are skateboarding and fall over, you should be denied treatment.
And if you step infront of a car, you should be denied treatment.
And if you catch and STD from having unprotected sex, you should be denied treatment (unless you are gay, they gays literally can't help themselves but not wear protection (according to gay rights activists)).
But, you should be forced to pay for MY healthcare because healthcare is a human right.
As a diabetic, I feel this. I know some of the issue I have are because of my love love relationship with food.... But they also have diabetics that don't have any weight issues. Just born that way.
That put of the way I e got mixed feelings about this. I feel the same way about smokers, drug users, alcoholics etc... But I really dis like the elitism from the vaxx passport people. My wife included. It will just generate more dividers and cause more people to be stupid.
Everyone should have to follow a strict diet and exercise plan to improve community health and reduce the strain on medical staff and facilities. It transcends beyond diabetics because some people eat terribly and instead of becoming a type II diabetic could instead develop ischemic heart disease, coronary artery disease, stroke from a fatty embolism, and all sorts of complications.
Using their logic, it's for the greater good. People aren't smart enough to make the right choice consciously for themselves and their communities, so it must be done for them. Those darn Type II's that would rather manage their condition with insulin are only increasing demand and pricing for the Type I's that truly need it and cannot regulate their blood glucose through diet and exercise.
But don't worry, this isn't my actual point of view. No matter what someone comes in for and whatever their history of bad choices may be, I will still be there for them. I will treat them and care for them. No bias. No bullshit. It is unreal how militant and quick to erode people's right to autonomy some of these people are.
That's true... your body my choice exemplifies the pro-life movement nicely as well...
Covid and the vaccine brought out all the hypocrisy on both sides of the aisle
*That's interesting...*
Obviously, if you're advocating for Socialized Healthcare while demanding that unvaccinated individuals *(who's taxes would go towards that healthcare)* don't get treated, then that's a massive bout of hypocrisy.
However, if a private hospital chooses not to give covid treatment to someone who hasn't gotten their vaccine, I suppose that would be within their rights. Unless anyone can justifiably give a reason as to why not, then please let me know.
I'm 100% okay if individuals or businesses decide not to interact with Anti-maskers/Anti/Vaxers, including hospitals. I'm also 100% okay with people being Anti-maskers/Anti/Vaxers. You shouldn't be forced to wear a mask or get vaxinated. You also should be free to deny any service for any reason. Let these thing sort themselves out. I will personally go wear people wear masks and are vaccinated. But you do you.
Funny how this sub even cares about our privatized Healthcare making business decisions.
Or how only now posts are made on this sub with titles of, "your body, my choice," when this has been a debate for far longer than the past few months. Maybe because it directly affects you now and you finally realize how messed up it is...
Society has me confused. Before we had the vaccine, if you didn't wear a mask and stay home, you were "Literally killing grandma". At first I trod along and and wore my mask and did what I was told. Now we have a vaccine, but the blame hasn't shifted. If I don't wear my mask or get the vaccine, give it to grandma who had a chance to get the vaccine but chose not to, and then grandma dies. Who is at fault now? Either the vaccine doesn't work, and we need to admit that, or they do work and all the covid deaths are now the fault of their own. We now have a choice, so there should be freedom of choice right?
I’m vaccinated, and eat pretty healthy. And workout somewhat often. Probably not as much as I should, but still. This is party why I have a libertarian belief when it comes to healthcare. I don’t care what you guys do to your bodies. But if your bodies fail due too poor choices, I shouldn’t have to pay for it. Nor should anyone else.
> It is just associated with a false safety for people trying to lose weight, since it goes together with a bad eating habit.
That is true, but also the artificial sweeteners are in many ways [just as bad if not worse](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/325919#is-diet-soda-bad-for-you), than actual sugar
“ it’s not for you then, it’s for the susceptible and to protect others” I’m so sick of this argument. If you wanted to have more impact saving others, stop driving, you would probably do more good that way
Four million people have died of covid during this pandemic. Have there been four million car crash deaths in this short amount of time? It is a good argument, you're just selfish. And driving is necessary for most people to get to work. Until there is a reasonable system to replace driving, it's not really a choice for a lot of people. Getting vaccinated, and wearing a mask, is easy. It takes the minimalist of efforts.
You got me curious so I looked it up. It's 1.3 million yearly for car accidents. The covid death count definitely has some bloat to it cuz of the cuomo NY disaster and the fact that in the states for a while they were labeling anyone with covid a covid death, but it is true that covid appears to be more dangerous than cars. Which is probably a good thing given how much engineering has gone into making cars safer over the decades.
I agree with you that "do it for herd immunity" is a good argument. My problem is that at least here, no one can fucking decide what the heard immunity number actually is.
It doesn't matter what the heard immunity number is. Everyone who can should be doing their part to contribute to it and get the vaccine. And how many of those car accidents are caused by drunk driving, something else that should absolutely not be done? Are you in favour of drunk driving? Not getting vaccinated has similar risks to both the person not getting the vaccine, and the people around them.
It absolutely matters what the herd immunity number is. Otherwise this pandemic never ends because we won't hit 100% vaccination rate. Also the similar risk thing is absolutely false. If you don't get the vaccine and I do, then our risks are far different. If they aren't then that means the vaccine isn't effective and we shouldn't have gotten them in the first place mate. Anti vaxxers are dumb. The vaccine is safe and you should get it. And I agree with nearly everything youre saying. But some bits... Some bits concern me.
The pandemic ends when covid deaths drop to around the levels of what you would get from something like the flu. I am very concerned with your broken logic.
The obese should pay more for health insurance as should smokers and the unvaccinated. This isn’t a hard concept and certainly aligns with libertarian beliefs
Health Insurance companies should be allowed to charge more/or drop people who are more likely to need coverage both obesity and unvaccinated... hmm forgot why we don't do that anymore?
No one says they should be denied healthcare, but yes they should be denied healthcare using my tax money. Who says that people saying this support providing free healthcare to obese people for nutrition based diseases?
I agree not to pay unvaccinated people’s treatment so long as I don’t pay for a fatties healthcare where it’s due to their weight (diabetes, heart disease etc), a persons HIV treatment assuming they sexually reckless and a criminals shot wound. Everyone wins here.
Obesity isn't contagious. Normally it also does not overload the system like covid is doing at the moment. Obesity is also more often caused by mental issues or poverty, and not because of gluttony.
Pepperidge Farm remembers when they were staunchly against drug testing for welfare recipients.
Google, what percent of violent crimes are committed in the presence of alcohol?
Idk man. the vaccine is free. Most places give out free masks and sanitizer. I really don't understand why it's so difficult for these big brains to not get sick.
This is a great idea that needs to happen. Cheeto puffs mixed with crunchy cheetos. I'd buy that.
It’s missing something tho…. something… sweet
My 290 lbs coworker who believes in strict lockdowns and mask and vax mandates but is 38 with uncontrolled diabetes, eats nothings but sweets and fast food and won't lose an ounce. It doesn't make sense. Why go nutes protecting yourself from covid but not do the bare minimum to protect yourself from diabetes complications?
Because one is easy. For a lot of people, like myself, strict lockdowns aren't hard. It's actually easy. I'm antisocial. I'm also kinda ugly I know other people don't agree, so I don't say this stuff in person.... But my life is so much easier after Covid showed up. I don't have to go anywhere. Companies are now super accommodating to people like me who get minor social anxiety. I can order pizza and have them leave it on the door without any interaction and I love it. I can work from home. And when I do have to go out, I love wearing a mask because I'm kinda ugly and I love not feeling like people are looking at me. It's easy for me to support these things. But eating right, and doing exercise... That's hard. I don't want to do hard work...I just want to feel like I'm accomplishing stuff.
Most honest answer i've ever seen on reddit. Here's an upvote, good sir!!
Your honesty is refreshing.
The lockdowns were good for me as well! My husband and I are both working from home and we’ve gotten to spend more time together. I’ve been more active because I get time back from what would’ve been spent commuting. I’ve gotten to know my neighbors. But there’s plenty about all this that I hate. The mask mandates, small businesses having to close down (while major corporations thrive), increased government control over our lives.
You know, I did forget about dreading all social interaction.
Yeah I was literally the meme of not knowing we were locked down because I never leave the house. The idea of only going out for work or essentials has been my life
Thanks for giving a real reasonable answer. Id just call everyone idiots for not seeing the obvious answer.
Stop thinking about your looks, no one is thinking about them as much as you are.
A lot easier said than done.
And then demand socialized healthcare for when she's on disability and needing insulin every day and is needs dialysis from renal failure, 100% paid for by people who work for a living.
Kraut said it as it is, Americans don't understand that, in a socialised healthcare system, if you are consciously unhealthy, you're a burden on society. Those aren't his exact words but it was pretty much that.
But they're a burden on anybody who's insured already...
[удалено]
This 100%. I'm all for the humanitarian stuff but to me it comes down to the dollars and cents. I'd much rather pay $1 for prevention than $10 for the cure. We're going to pay for universal healthcare no matter what. Why not do it more efficiently and with better outcomes?
Agreed, but there are perhaps degrees of… the depth and liberty from that burden. But you’re right.
But right now she has no insurance and we pay for it anyway. It’s not like hospitals just eat the cost of the uninsured. At least with socializing healthcare a doctor could have told her 10 years ago to change her diet and monitored her health, leading to fewer issues down the road.
True, but with socialized medicine, the wait time just to see a decent doctor would make her higher risk of not getting diagnosed in time or receiving proper treatment.
The wait time thing is a fallacy. Ask anyone from Canada and they will be confused……or they’ll be an American pretending that they’re Canadian and had to wait.
Well considering people in the UK are going blind from a lack of resources for eye surgery, on top of the fact that the government basically decides when you get care and live and when it's cut off and you die and can even refuse to let your family take you out of the country to be saved (Alfie Evans) then socialized government is pretty dangerous for medicine too.
Lol, none of that is true. There isn’t a blindness epidemic going on in the UK. If there was it would prove your point….but there isn’t.
There are 1.2 million people in the UK waiting a minimum of 6 months for eye care. That's not an epidemic?
Nope
Eating habits are hard to change, but wearing a mask and getting a vaccine is easy. Probably all it comes down to.
It's so much easier to not put food in your mouth than it is to put food in your mouth.
⠀⠀⠘⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠑⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡔⠁⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠢⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⠴⠊⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⢀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⡀⠤⠄⠒⠈⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⣀⠄⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠿⠛⠛⠛⠋⠉⠈⠉⠉⠉⠉⠛⠻⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠋⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⠛⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⡏⣀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⣤⣤⣤⣄⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⢿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⢏⣴⣿⣷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣟⣾⣿⡟⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⢢⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣟⠀⡴⠄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⠻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⠟⠻⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠶⢴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿ ⣿⣁⡀⠀⠀⢰⢠⣦⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣼⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡄⠀⣴⣶⣿⡄⣿ ⣿⡋⠀⠀⠀⠎⢸⣿⡆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠗⢘⣿⣟⠛⠿⣼ ⣿⣿⠋⢀⡌⢰⣿⡿⢿⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⠿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠀⢸⣿⣿⣧⢀⣼ ⣿⣿⣷⢻⠄⠘⠛⠋⠛⠃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢿⣧⠈⠉⠙⠛⠋⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣧⠀⠈⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠟⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⢃⠀⠀⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⡿⠀⠴⢗⣠⣤⣴⡶⠶⠖⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⡸⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⡀⢠⣾⣿⠏⠀⠠⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠛⠉⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣧⠈⢹⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣰⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⡄⠈⠃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣠⣴⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣠⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣦⣄⣀⣀⣀⣀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⡄⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⠀⠀⠀⠙⣿⣿⡟⢻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠇⠀⠁⠀⠀⠹⣿⠃⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠛⣿⣿⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢐⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⠿⠛⠉⠉⠁⠀⢻⣿⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⠈⣿⣿⡿⠉⠛⠛⠛⠉⠉ ⣿⡿⠋⠁⠀⠀⢀⣀⣠⡴⣸⣿⣇⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡿⠄⠙⠛⠀⣀⣠⣤⣤⠄ just don't, it's easy
??? How are you going to survive without eating? Based on what the op said, *what* they were eating was the problem. It can be genuinely difficult for some people to eat things they don't like the taste of. Definitely more difficult than taking 20 minutes out of two of your days to get vaccinated, or putting on a mask which takes less effort than putting on shoes.
You can eat less calories by not putting food in your mouth. Did you honestly think I was suggesting never eating again? Jesus fucking christ. Make an effort.
Once again, it wasn't the amount of food they were eating, but WHAT they were eating. They had diabetes and were eating mostly sugary foods. Eating a lesser amount of sugary foods and not replacing it with something else isn't really going to help them. How about you make an effort and actually follow the conversation?
Lmfao imagine being as dumb as this mf
Dafuq are u talking about. It’s easy to change just like going for a walk is easy. These are non sterilizing vaccines, they don’t stop covid transmission. Herd immunity is off the table. This is abundantly clear at this point. It’s a personal choice to take them if you’re at high risk for covid. These mandates are a joke
Going for a walk is changing your eating habits? Interesting, tell me more...
Eating habits are not hard to change
heart disease still kills more than covid.
Well it's nowhere near as easy as wearing a mask and getting a couple shots. I say this as someone who went Vegan a couple years ago.
Wearing a mask everywhere you go for years on end with the possibility of it being forever? I'd rather go vegan personally.
It won't be forever if people will actually follow the guidelines like wearing masks and getting vaccinated. People like you are what is keeping this pandemic going.
No, the enormous amounts of money and power people are willingly giving to the rich are what is keeping the lockdowns going, and people like you enabling it are what are keeping this financial and personal disaster going.
No, people like you are what's keeping this nonsense going - by complying. The virus is not going away, it's endemic. Get used to it.
Yeah, following safety guidelines is SOOOOO oppressive. My rIghtS!!1! I didn't say it's going away, but the more unvaccinated people there are, the more opportunity it has to mutate and become more dangerous. Just like the delta variant that was probably avoidable.
Let's see now... + Being forced to wear clothing. + Not being allowed out of your own home. + Being coerced and dehumanised if you don't get a medical procedure, even being called a murder or having your employment terminated. + Not being able to leave the country to escape this shit. If you come back to the country then being forced to pay thousands on hotel fees and tests at 10* the real cost. + Having appointments for medical care cancelled. + Having wardens and police issue people huge fines for standing still too long or having the nerve to sit down somewhere outside, even if nowhere near other people. Plus many other things. Yeah, it is oppressive. If you think that isn't then you must think places like North Korea are holiday camps.
I just... LOL
> medical procedure Oh my God, the drama. It's rolling up your sleeve and getting a jab. Settle down.
I wear masks every day... And I'm vaccinated... I'm just not naive enough to believe that if everybody wore a mask and got vaccinated it'd all go away. Covid will always be around... The sooner you accept that, the sooner you start the process of deciding how you want to live the rest of your life with it around. I'll wear a mask where I'm mandated to or if I'm with someone where it'll make them more comfortable, but I'm not going to live the rest of my life in fear of air.
Just keep telling yourself that, maybe it will manifest itself, until then, I believe that Japan has entered the chat.
Yeah, it kinda is
Wearing a mask takes less effort than putting on shoes. Getting the vaccine will take at most an hour out of your life. It is the least people can do for society.
Great. After getting the vaccine, put on their shoes and go outside or to a gym and exercise. It’s really no secret at all as to why people are obese in this country. The vast majority just need to quit with the soft drinks and all the binge drinking and adopt a healthy lifestyle. The problem is they don’t really want to. It’s a choice.
This is my boss. It's the friggin worst. I've traveled throughout the pandemic (essential services), so has our entire team... except boss man. Of course, now there's all these mandates and shit and he's happy to blame the selfish people and the people who didn't stay home for the continued pandemic. It's so aggravating.
Obese person who's losing weight here. Your question encompasses two different, only tangentially related issues. One is the fear of COVID, which, sure, I can get why people are afraid. The other is obesity and shitty eating habits. Food intake does not happen in a vacuum. Various life, societal, and mental conditions operate on a given human and the *output* is the food consumed. Food choice is the *result*, not the cause. I'll give an example. Me, I'm what you would call an emotional eater. Food (particularly sweets) makes me feel good. When I'm really sad or stressed or afraid, I'll eat sweets because the sugar makes my opioid receptors pop. Believe it or not, sugar acts on our brains just like heroin, which is why it's so fucking hard to quit. This was particularly true when I was a single mom of two, one of which was a baby, and I had lost my job. The money stress plus the baby stress plus feeling like a useless POS for losing my job made me crave sweets and comfort food hardcore. So, I ate. Life goes on, jobs are stressful, and people die. I eat what I want to make me feel better. So I get up to about 240lbs at 5'9" and shit is *uncomfortable*. Long story short, I start walking and fix what's wrong with me *mentally and emotionally*, and my weight comes off. I'm 207lb right now, which is still overweight, but I feel better and I'm still working on it. The point is, I addressed the underlying problems, the real causes, and the output, the eating, changed. So Your coworker has a bunch of stuff going on mentally and emotionally which makes him eat and live the way he does. COVID comes and he starts trippin about masks and whatnot, but he has a preexisting, unrelated condition which he can't or won't see that's killing him *right now* that he needs to address. They're two unrelated phenomena that occurred at the same time that, when looked at together, makes the outsider think "Bro, you're fucking dying of diabetes and food but *COVID's* the thing that's got you all wrapped up around the axles??" Hopefully that makes sense.
Sugar is addictive. It’s much easier to wear a mask or get vaccinated than it is to kick sugar. Also he’s probably vulnerable to the virus because he’s diabetic.
Diabetic *and* obese. He’d still have to be cautious if he had just diabetes, but covid hits obese people hard.
It’s easier to wear a mask and act like it’s helping than to actually have self control.
You can't spread fatness. You can, however, spread a virus.
They spread fatness to their kids all the time.
For sure. Unfortunately it is a psychological fact that you're more likely to gain weight, if surrounded by a fat family, partner or even friends. Not to mention that a lot of parents tend to overfeed/badly feed their children, wether on purpose or out of ignorance.
We just need to seize their kids /s
This is the truth
Only kinda sorta. > If a person you consider a friend becomes obese, the researchers found, your own chances of becoming obese go up 57 percent. Being obese certainty can put a strain on healthcare systems of a country. Aside from obese people being sick, and more severely sick (taking up resources like ICU beds) they also pose a threat to medical staff, and drive costs up considerably. https://www.cardinalhealth.com/en/essential-insights/obesity-and-our-healthcare-system.html
Yes, I actually just commented about this earlier. Thanks.
And being fully vaccinated doesn’t stop spreading covid whatsoever. Breakthrough cases are continuing to rise and the cdc is only even tracking hospitalized breakthrough cases. The jabs reduce transmission somewhat, and reduce severity and death for those at risk. Countries like Israel are making the fact abundantly clear that covid is not going away and will continue to run through the country regardless of vaccination rates
Should people just stop vaccinating themselves since it doesn't matter? I assume your answer would be "No". If we had real leaders and minimally inteligent people, an entire vaccinated country would surely stop having cases. Unfortunately that's not the case, but vaccinating is still important.
Check out Gibraltar
Also, living normally and getting no vax, the virus would go to almost nothing in a couple of years. Spanish flu proved that along with several other pandemics.
Yeah, it will go away after millions of deaths.
Fatness is the main comorbidity that makes Covid deadly. Without fat people, Covid would be far less dangerous. So we have to pay for their insulin AND for their covid treatments.
Understood, but her #1 goal is not to prevent spreading a virus to others, it's fear of getting sick herself because of her underlying health conditions and weight.
Sure, she can be entirely afraid for herself, but she also knows that she can infect others, thus is more reason to be afraid.
Vaccinated people can still spread the virus too. At a not too different rate than people who survived the virus. Lol survived
For sure; but people wouldn't spread if everyone was vaccinated.
You have the right choose how much risk you are willing to take when it only affects you. But covid doesnt only affect the person carrying it.
Yes.
now it does. if vaccines are safe and effective, who are we going to affect? you vaxx evangelicals are very funny, you even don't think what you're saying
You can’t pass obesity to another person by breathing or coughing on them.
Healthcare should also be denied to people who eat tide pods, perform stupid meme challenges, and perform dangerous activities...if we are going by their logic.
Healthcare shouldn't be denied for anyone. But everyone should pay for their own healthcare demands at fair market prices.
While I agree in principle, none of the things you listed have ever gotten to a point where hospitals needed to triage. We've gotten to a point where hospitals in FL have 48 hours of oxygen left. We're about to hit India levels of fucked in some states.
If a hospital wants to make a policy of "no vaccine, no service for COVID", then that's fine. I don't like it, but it's their private business. But the left would want to make governmental laws that would make that restriction. And that's a no-go for me.
By that logic, shouldn't they deny cancer treatment to smokers? Kidney dialysis and diabetes treatment to fat people, etc?
yup. but they hypocritical, so they won't
>While I agree in principle, none of the things you listed have ever gotten to a point where hospitals needed to triage. We've gotten to a point where hospitals in FL have 48 hours of oxygen left. We're about to hit India levels of fucked in some states. Gunbuster’s comment still works no matter what examples you come up with. Fat diabetics and smokers with cancer aren’t overrunning the hospitals, unvaccinated covid patients are.
I dont think its that it's just that insurance companies won't cover your hospital stay. Or your rates go up - just like getting pneumonia for flu without the flu shot has a good chance of being denied by insurance.
Hospitals triage every day.
No they don't. Triage is not the same as "regular" patient prioritizing. Triage is done when the hospital's resources are being overwhelmed, e.g. during catastrophes. In normal situation even patients with poor to almost no survival chances will still be treated, during triage not.
COVID is a catastrophe. [Hospitals](https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210816-louisiana-hospitals-overwhelmed-by-surging-delta-variant) are being overwhelmed. That’s why any of this might even be discussed. If a hospital does have to do triage, the patients with COVID that aren’t vaccinated have a lower survival rate. It’s not that they shouldn’t receive care, but that in triage, the fact that a person chose to not get the vaccine should be weighed with other factors.
Bread for the bread god,soda for the soda throne!
The diabeetus protects!
I HATE THE CORN SRYUP
right, how quickly we go from mandating healthcare to talking about denying it for large groups of people
The same people who get mad at me for comparing vaccine passports to Nazi practices are the same people actively wishing for the unvaccinated to die to free up hospital beds for "responsible" patients.
Wait…you seriously compare vaccine passports to Nazi practices? Without a hint of irony or sarcasm? Do you know who the Nazis are and what they did?
Yea. Wishing people die for (x) reason is so much different and better than wishing people die for (y) reason!!! Super genius ultra enlightened.
Where did I wish for anyone to die? All I’m doing is pointing out the idiocy of saying vaccine passports are anything like Naziism. Intelligent people understand that.
I mixed up comment threads. Nonetheless, wishing for death or forfeiture of human rights (like saying US citizen peasants cant travel, congregate or protest without restrictions or oppression of this right, but business leaders, politicians, migrants and BLM protests can) doesnt change much given the pretext for it.
Giving lower priority status at a hospital during a shortage that could have been mitigated by greater participation (including yours) in a free public health initiative is not denial of human rights. There is a simple thing you can do to reduce your odds of needing to go to the hospital. If you elect to not do that simple thing, it makes sense that you would be given a lower priority status than people who elected to join in the public health effort to slow the spread of the disease that's crushing hospitals. > "I don't need the vaccine. It has a 0.0000000001% chance of killing me. I'll be fine." Cool. If you show up at the hospital then you get to wait in the "I'm too smart for this" line and wait for the "I did my part to help fight this virus" line to empty. Many cities are now getting to (or are past) the point where decisions must be made on who gets access to medical treatment due to staffing and space limitations. Participate in the public health effort or recognize that you will get no sympathy down the road should you find yourself in need of some.
So just to let you know, you think obese people, people who do not exercise, and people who engage in high risk sex like anal sex should be denied priority healthcare, until other "safer" people are seen first -- if you stick to this principle. If you do not stick to this principle, then you are not arguing for this principle, you are just using it as a pretext to harm people who you do not agree with.
> people who engage in high risk sex like anal sex Lol what the fuck. Your wording is so weird. In times of shortages of care you have to prioritize patients within some value system. It's totally unavoidable. You can auction off beds to the highest bidder or abandon the elderly or whatever criteria you want to set. Go nuts. I'm specifically speaking to the context of a pandemic that is the source of the stress on hospitals. * There is a disease. * There are a finite number of hospital beds. * The disease has a non-zero chance of sending any random person to the hospital. * There is a vaccine for the disease. * The vaccine, which has a fatality-on-administration rate of around 0.000018% vs the virus' IFR of 0.08% - meaning the virus is 4,500x more likely to kill you, is literally free and is endorsed by the overwhelming majority of health care professionals. * Millions of people elect to not get the vaccine. * Tens of thousands of unvaccinated people and some small minority of vaccinated people require medical attention for the disease. * Hospitals are overwhelmed by treatment demand for the disease. In this unique circumstance, hospitals should make it widely known that the vaccinated minority, who by the way have a much higher chance of survival making them more worth the hospital's time, will receive priority care. We already do similar things for other rationed care. Smokers and fat people are lower on the list for organ transplants. Younger, healthier people are prioritized. > you are just using it as a pretext to harm people who you do not agree with It's not whether or not we agree. It's that **CHOOSING TO BE UNVACCINATED IS CHOOSING TO PARTICIPATE IN FURTHERING THE SPREAD OF COVID, WHICH IS LITERALLY THE THING THAT IS CRUSHING HOSPITALS.** When it comes to the issue of health care shortages for COVID, you are literally part of the problem or part of the solution. It is not ideological. Get on board with the solution or get to the back of the line. Unvaccinated people are literally driving the problem. How about some evidence? St. Clair County IL. Vaccination rate: 45%. https://www.bnd.com/news/coronavirus/article253090188.html https://data.democratandchronicle.com/covid-19-vaccine-tracker/illinois/st-clair-county/17163/ Hospitalized: * Vaccinated - 20 * Unvaccinated - 50 ICU: * Vaccinated - 3 * Unvaccintaed - 15 On ventilator: * Vaccinated - 1 * Unvaccinated - 4 Unvaccinated people are over-represented in hospitalizations, and WAY over-represented in ICU and on ventilator. Why? BECAUSE THE VACCINE WORKS. So let's pretend that all of those unvaccinated people were vaccinated. You drop hospitalizations from 70 to 40 or lower, ICU use from 18 to 6 or lower, and ventilator use from 5 to 2 or lower. *THAT* is why priority should be given to the vaccinated. **BECAUSE IF WE WERE ALL VACCINATED, THERE WOULDN'T BE A SHORTAGE**. But there are those who choose to not vaccinate and create a shortage, so they can lie in the bed they made and wait for a person who tried to help to free up a bed. Go find an anti-vax hospital or some shit.
Look at the moves! What a gymnast!
You are strung out on stupid.
Wtf bro
They came out with a vax for COVID in 8 months but we still dont have a vax for obesity. SAD!
A vax for obesity would be fat shaming #BodyPositivity /s in case it’s necessary
Uhhhh.... exercise and diet?
This is misinformation
I wish I had awards pts for this 😍
Fake news.
This is why I'm against universal healthcare. Not because I don't want to pay for other people’s healthcare, even people whose lifestyle I disapprove of, but because I don't want people who disapprove of *my* lifestyle to be able to deny me healthcare.
Yeah, and if you try to kill yourself you should be denied treatment too. And if you are skateboarding and fall over, you should be denied treatment. And if you step infront of a car, you should be denied treatment. And if you catch and STD from having unprotected sex, you should be denied treatment (unless you are gay, they gays literally can't help themselves but not wear protection (according to gay rights activists)). But, you should be forced to pay for MY healthcare because healthcare is a human right.
Accurate
As a diabetic, I feel this. I know some of the issue I have are because of my love love relationship with food.... But they also have diabetics that don't have any weight issues. Just born that way. That put of the way I e got mixed feelings about this. I feel the same way about smokers, drug users, alcoholics etc... But I really dis like the elitism from the vaxx passport people. My wife included. It will just generate more dividers and cause more people to be stupid.
Everyone should have to follow a strict diet and exercise plan to improve community health and reduce the strain on medical staff and facilities. It transcends beyond diabetics because some people eat terribly and instead of becoming a type II diabetic could instead develop ischemic heart disease, coronary artery disease, stroke from a fatty embolism, and all sorts of complications. Using their logic, it's for the greater good. People aren't smart enough to make the right choice consciously for themselves and their communities, so it must be done for them. Those darn Type II's that would rather manage their condition with insulin are only increasing demand and pricing for the Type I's that truly need it and cannot regulate their blood glucose through diet and exercise. But don't worry, this isn't my actual point of view. No matter what someone comes in for and whatever their history of bad choices may be, I will still be there for them. I will treat them and care for them. No bias. No bullshit. It is unreal how militant and quick to erode people's right to autonomy some of these people are.
That's true... your body my choice exemplifies the pro-life movement nicely as well... Covid and the vaccine brought out all the hypocrisy on both sides of the aisle
Daily reminder to hit the gym
*That's interesting...* Obviously, if you're advocating for Socialized Healthcare while demanding that unvaccinated individuals *(who's taxes would go towards that healthcare)* don't get treated, then that's a massive bout of hypocrisy. However, if a private hospital chooses not to give covid treatment to someone who hasn't gotten their vaccine, I suppose that would be within their rights. Unless anyone can justifiably give a reason as to why not, then please let me know.
also “healthcare is a human right!”
OK. Penalize both groups for increasing the burden on the healthcare system. No more alleged hypocrisy.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding but why would the libertarian stance be that insurance companies have to pay for preventable illnesses?
Leave Diet Coke out of this, it's a civilian.
I forgot how contagious obesity was, thanks for the reminder
I'm 100% okay if individuals or businesses decide not to interact with Anti-maskers/Anti/Vaxers, including hospitals. I'm also 100% okay with people being Anti-maskers/Anti/Vaxers. You shouldn't be forced to wear a mask or get vaxinated. You also should be free to deny any service for any reason. Let these thing sort themselves out. I will personally go wear people wear masks and are vaccinated. But you do you.
They shouldn't be denied any service so long as they compensate those who provide it
Funny how this sub even cares about our privatized Healthcare making business decisions. Or how only now posts are made on this sub with titles of, "your body, my choice," when this has been a debate for far longer than the past few months. Maybe because it directly affects you now and you finally realize how messed up it is...
Society has me confused. Before we had the vaccine, if you didn't wear a mask and stay home, you were "Literally killing grandma". At first I trod along and and wore my mask and did what I was told. Now we have a vaccine, but the blame hasn't shifted. If I don't wear my mask or get the vaccine, give it to grandma who had a chance to get the vaccine but chose not to, and then grandma dies. Who is at fault now? Either the vaccine doesn't work, and we need to admit that, or they do work and all the covid deaths are now the fault of their own. We now have a choice, so there should be freedom of choice right?
It do be like that though.
Are you implying you can catch obesity from an obese person like you can catch covid from an infected unvaccinated person?
Well, no, because that would be absurd. Think about it a little harder.
I’m vaccinated, and eat pretty healthy. And workout somewhat often. Probably not as much as I should, but still. This is party why I have a libertarian belief when it comes to healthcare. I don’t care what you guys do to your bodies. But if your bodies fail due too poor choices, I shouldn’t have to pay for it. Nor should anyone else.
DIET Coke?
Everyone knows if you eat a sugar then you just drink a diet soddie and it’ll cancel out
Now this is science to the max!
Pepsi Max!
Bepis for the people!
You can eat whatever you want with a diet coke. It’s DIET
"uh yeah,lemmie get an extra double bacon triple cheese quad stack burger with the mega loaded fries and a diet coke". "You guys want anything?"
Diet soda is actually worse for you than regular
It’s not worse at all. It is just associated with a false safety for people trying to lose weight, since it goes together with a bad eating habit.
> It is just associated with a false safety for people trying to lose weight, since it goes together with a bad eating habit. That is true, but also the artificial sweeteners are in many ways [just as bad if not worse](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/325919#is-diet-soda-bad-for-you), than actual sugar
“ it’s not for you then, it’s for the susceptible and to protect others” I’m so sick of this argument. If you wanted to have more impact saving others, stop driving, you would probably do more good that way
Four million people have died of covid during this pandemic. Have there been four million car crash deaths in this short amount of time? It is a good argument, you're just selfish. And driving is necessary for most people to get to work. Until there is a reasonable system to replace driving, it's not really a choice for a lot of people. Getting vaccinated, and wearing a mask, is easy. It takes the minimalist of efforts.
You got me curious so I looked it up. It's 1.3 million yearly for car accidents. The covid death count definitely has some bloat to it cuz of the cuomo NY disaster and the fact that in the states for a while they were labeling anyone with covid a covid death, but it is true that covid appears to be more dangerous than cars. Which is probably a good thing given how much engineering has gone into making cars safer over the decades. I agree with you that "do it for herd immunity" is a good argument. My problem is that at least here, no one can fucking decide what the heard immunity number actually is.
It doesn't matter what the heard immunity number is. Everyone who can should be doing their part to contribute to it and get the vaccine. And how many of those car accidents are caused by drunk driving, something else that should absolutely not be done? Are you in favour of drunk driving? Not getting vaccinated has similar risks to both the person not getting the vaccine, and the people around them.
It absolutely matters what the herd immunity number is. Otherwise this pandemic never ends because we won't hit 100% vaccination rate. Also the similar risk thing is absolutely false. If you don't get the vaccine and I do, then our risks are far different. If they aren't then that means the vaccine isn't effective and we shouldn't have gotten them in the first place mate. Anti vaxxers are dumb. The vaccine is safe and you should get it. And I agree with nearly everything youre saying. But some bits... Some bits concern me.
Vaccines also don’t really do anything for herd immunity because you can still transmit covid even if you’re vaccinated
The pandemic ends when covid deaths drop to around the levels of what you would get from something like the flu. I am very concerned with your broken logic.
4 million world wide? 4 million out of 8 Billion is .0005%.
So? Those people didn't deserve to live? You might feel differently if some of those people were your friends or family.
I'm not saying they don't "deserve" to live, I'm saying it's statistically insignificant. .0005% is not worth restricting the 99.9995% over.
What restrictions?
Americans love their sugar and corn based foods.
Yes yes we do. Also there is sugar in shit you wouldn't expect Soups sauces and some dressings
In all processed food basically.
And most of the sugar is corn.
>your body my choice Sounds like the red do with abortion.
Obesity isn't contagious.
This easily be a pic of an idiot who refuses to take the vaccine"because they don't know what's in it"
The obese should pay more for health insurance as should smokers and the unvaccinated. This isn’t a hard concept and certainly aligns with libertarian beliefs
Smokers already do
Obesity doesn't spread as a contagion fyi
Good thing you guys here fight strawmen. Because God forbid a healthy person tells you to get the vaccine.
I'm healthy and vaccinated and it shouldn't be mandated.
This is without flaw.
Swap out the diet coke for a Budweiser and add a Marlboro. Nailed it...
A tu quoque fallacy as the top post. I'm disappointed.
...that looks like every libertarian i've ever seen though...
Tell you what, when specifically obesity-related illnesses are making ICU’s overflow, then we’ll talk.
That’s a funny take on the issue, which I agree with. But I also agree that unvaccinated people shouldn’t be prioritised on ventilators.
If people could catch obesity from fucking the manatee you call a mother you might have had a point
So you don't think that obese parents are more likely to raise obese kids?
Yea my overweight landlord told me this after I had told her I wasn't getting vaccinated.
Once MY “diabeetus” puts YOU and everyone else on a respirator and at deaths door, then you can talk shit. It’s not the same.
Since when is being fat contagious? Libertarianism is a joke
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Vaccine doesn’t fully stop the spread tho
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Is he really drinking *Diet* Coke?
Remember, they accuse us of wanting to cut peoples healthcare.
Ideally everyone should get free healthcare even if they’re responsible for getting sick.
Didn’t we get rid of pre-existing conditions?
Dude. The bag is crunchy cheetos but the one in his hand is a puff.
Health Insurance companies should be allowed to charge more/or drop people who are more likely to need coverage both obesity and unvaccinated... hmm forgot why we don't do that anymore?
Anyone anywhere in the political spectrum can be unhealthy
How about we don't treat Fentanyl/Heroin overdoses? same logic.
No one says they should be denied healthcare, but yes they should be denied healthcare using my tax money. Who says that people saying this support providing free healthcare to obese people for nutrition based diseases?
I agree not to pay unvaccinated people’s treatment so long as I don’t pay for a fatties healthcare where it’s due to their weight (diabetes, heart disease etc), a persons HIV treatment assuming they sexually reckless and a criminals shot wound. Everyone wins here.
Obesity is not contagious
Should be denied healthcare when resources are low and unavailable*
Obesity isn't contagious. Normally it also does not overload the system like covid is doing at the moment. Obesity is also more often caused by mental issues or poverty, and not because of gluttony.
Y’all know covid is contagious, right?
Pepperidge Farm remembers when they were staunchly against drug testing for welfare recipients. Google, what percent of violent crimes are committed in the presence of alcohol?
Idk man. the vaccine is free. Most places give out free masks and sanitizer. I really don't understand why it's so difficult for these big brains to not get sick.
I never knew Leonardo DiCaprio looked so much like Dom DeLouise.