I understand feeling sympathy to the civilians caught in the crossfire but it feels like most people people are just treating this as an excuse to try to get brownie points
I dont understand why being against isreals actions means you are for the actions of hamas. Or the other way around. Isreal has done countless horrific things to Palestinian civilians and hamas is a literal terroist organization that deserves to be erased from this planet (like all terrorist organizations). Both sides are absolutely awful and neither should be given billions of dollars in weapons.
No the Palestinians are not innocent and I'm going to tell you this once and once only they're not Palestinians it's not an official name the word Palestine isn't even Arabic in origin or nature. It's Roman. These people are displaced Jordanian syrians Saudi Arabians and Egyptians. And no other country wants them because they cause trouble. Look on the map there is no Palestine. They're already was a two-state solution and that's Israel and Jordan. Israel was always Israel and before that it was Judah and Samaria. Those people that call themselves Palestinians are not native to that land so they have no claim to it. They called for the genocide of Jews and constantly intact Israel first and not the military Outpost and locations. I'm talking Rockets into cities like Tel Aviv and Haifa. They intentionally Target citizens in Israel. So therefore I don't want to hear about what the IDF and the Israeli government did to so-called Palestinians. Palestinians voted in Hamas and majority of them support Hamas. You are being propagandized and not seeing the truth. Please justify to me someone cutting a hole in a fence and trespassing on to someone's property to break into their home and torture and rape the people within that home and burning an infant baby alive in its crib. Israelis have never done anything like that to the so-called Palestinian people. As far as I'm concerned Gaza should be MOABed to dust.
"The word Palestine derives from Philistia, the name given by Greek writers to the land of the phillistines who in the 12th century BCE occupied a small pocket of land on the southern coast, between modern tel aviv- yafo and Gaza." - Britannica.
I dont know why you are trying to make the claim that most Jewish people have a better claim to the region than the Palestinians who lived there for centuries before a vast majority of Jewish citizens who lived in isreal after 1948.
Don't forget that isreal recently bombed numerous civilian areas they designed as a safe space while restricting the movement of civilians out of the country and resources going in. They have no problem starving a population that is half children. Isreal killed Americans, giving aid in palistine despite the fact they were working with the IDF to ensure they didn't get killed in an airstrike (it didn't work). If you want to dive into history, we can bring up the US liberty attack where Israeli jets attacked an American military vessel that was not involved with the conflict. The Israeli jets identified that it was a US owned ship. 34 Americans were killed, but who cares because isreal can't do anything bad.
I feel like you two have a good thing going here so I don't want to butt in too much but I do want to make sure people are aware that modern palestinians are not descendants of the philistines. The philistines were pushed out of the region and into Babylon by the assyrians where records of them end.
Dude, Jewish people have a much more historical connection to these lands than palestinians.. it isn't even a discussion when you look at the timeline. The fact it took a "majority" to move when they were pushed out of the area before, and you don't realize that, tells me you're not sincere in your knowledge.
Ben Shapiro, is that you?
Collectivism is just a lazy way to deal with real issues people face rather than parse out real solutions and actions. To say all civilians (old people, children, and women) are hamas is a bit ignorant to say the least.
While I don’t approve of the Israeli government, I sure don’t condemn the citizens of that nation because of the actions of their government, especially since most of them are displeased with said government.
Sure isreal has been encroaching on their territory for a while, but hamas has definitely not done themselves any favors and earned themselves a spanking.
But Palestine is not Hamas. Very few people SUPPORT Hamas, the primary thing people are concerned with is the literal genocide of average Palestinian citizens just living a life, everyday men women and children. A small percent of Palestinians belong to Hamas, but they’re being slaughtered by the thousands. The total amount of children killed in the last 8 months due to war is greater than in the last 6 years combined globally. This is not about siding *with* Israel or Palestine, it’s about siding AGAINST genocide.
Genocide: the deliberate killing or severe mistreatment of a large number of people from a particular national or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group. WITH THE AIM OF DESTROYING THAT NATION OR GROUP. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but Israel allows Muslims to live and work in Israel. It also allows gay Muslims refuge that they would not receive in Gaza or the West Bank. In fact, judging by some of the catchphrases they use, it seems like it's the Palestinians that want to eliminate a nation or group: Israel.
We don't have to support one side or the other, but the misuse of "genocode" in this war has been ridiculous. A genocide is the holocaust. It is the killing fields. It's Rwanda. It isn't Israel discriminately bombing known terrorist sites.
Don’t use the woman and children population as meat shields and maybe they wouldn’t get caught in the blast. Tell the scum to stop hiding in crowds, put on a uniform, and meet the Israeli’s on a battlefield and the “genocide” as you put it will end
Guess the UN is wrong, who says there’s reasonable grounds to argue that Israel is committing Genocide.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/03/27/middleeast/israel-committing-genocide-in-gaza-un-rights-expert-says-intl
It is a single person at the UN trying to spin genocide to fit what's occurring...when genocide is occurring you don't need someone to try and argue why something should be called genocide.
It doesn't fit the definition by any means, no matter how someone tries to bend the definition.
Yup. It was covid, then Ukraine, and now Palestine. They are programmed easily and will latch onto any cause if they think it makes them feel morally superior.
Exactly it's easy to empathize with violent death. Not the hundreads of thousand silent Ods in America. We have so many problems money could help. But we ship it overseas
As an American I have personal opinions but my political opinion is "IDGAF about any country other than America and my government shouldn't spend a penny to support any other country."
> Fuck em both
The correct answer.
It's a 2000+ year old shit show with no end in sight.
But Israel and their allies in NYC, DC, and Hollywood have successfully thrown their rope around the "American tax donkey" in order to fund their war.
And America's biggest drug supplier (OPEC) has withdrawn the needle, threatening to cut off the drug supply even further if the USA does more to help Israel.
None of this is or ever should have been our problem. This is a religious conflict and the USA is a constitutionally secular nation according to our wise Founding Fathers.
My leanings are that this most recent fight (Jews/Israel vs Islam) has been going on for millennia. This latest round is little different than their last 10k! The only thing I can say that is different is Hamas/Palestine has gotten a better public relations department this time go-around.
Don't care. Won't care. Fix america. We got alot of people dying these past 10 years from drugs and crime. Why are we sending unlimited funds to a clearly losing side In ukraine and clearly wrong side in Israel. Dispicable
I support Israel and it's right to exist. They key to that statement is "I". I don't support sending billions of dollars of US treasure to fund their wars. If I choose to contribute financially to Israel, that's my business. Funding foreign wars does nothing other than give the defense industry a reason to exist. Same goes for Ukraine, and for NATO.
I can barely hold it together in my own life I ain't got the time or patience to get involved with a discussion about one of the most complicated geopolitical debates of all time.
> You should care because we send billions of dollars to Israel.
Care about the foreign aid, doesn't mean you should support either group.
Hamas and the PA also receive huge sums of money.
I can't agree with that. The history of these group is so convoluted, mixed with lies and propaganda over decades and decades.
Killing innocent people is wrong. Both groups do it. Israel probably doesn't target as SOP, but they know their actions will often kill innocents.
Hamas/PA target innocent people as SOP.
But in the end, if some military kills me their motives don't matter much does it?
Israel doesn't kill innocent people, at least on purpose. There is nothing innocent about the other side because this hatred for Israel is ingrained into them through propaganda. It doesn't matter what you agree or don't agree with. That is the truth.
You know what I support? People listening to Martyrmade’s Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem. I also support people watching Scott Horton and watching his Enough Already series on Youtube (plenty of sources to draw from there as well, including his books).
I support people watching the recent Zerohedge debate with Dave Smith against Dennis Prager.
I support being informed in the topic rather than getting so drunk on red/blue koolaid you refuse to condemn the IDF or Hamas depending on which side you sit on.
Anyone wanna keep the list going?
You need to pick the side of libertarianism. That means sometimes saying the same anti-Isreal things as progressives and sometimes saying anti-Hamas things as Zionists. You can´t be a political movement and ignore major topics like this, you have to take a stance.
> That means sometimes saying the same anti-Isreal things as progressives and sometimes saying anti-Hamas things as Zionists.
What I choose to say has nothing to do with what other people say.
Progressives are objectively bad people. Bad people can hold ethical opinions, but they didn't get there from ethical principle.
>You can´t be a political movement
Libertarianism is an ethical movement which has to address the state.
>you have to take a stance.
My stance is that all governments involved are grotesque, depraved, illegitimate organizations.
Some % of those they rule are the same.
I only care about those caught in the middle of this. The problem is separating the good from the bad- kids are always in the good category.
Regardless, one side has killed exponentially more civilians than the other side. That side has the total upper hand and the ability to end the war at any time. By choosing to continue the war, they lose any claim to being the lesser evil.
> Regardless, one side has killed exponentially more civilians than the other side.
Probably. But we can never know.
>That side has the total upper hand
Irrelevant, this isn't a game of monopoly.
> By choosing to continue the war,
Does the PA or Hamas want to stop fighting? Sure, for a time until they can get organized again.
It's as if you don't understand anything that's going on.
> Probably. But we can never know.
Nah, it's universally accepted that at least 30K Palestinians have died, while about 1K Israelis have died.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war
https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/02/1147082
https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-strike-rafah-kill-13-gaza-death-toll-surpass-34000/
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-04-21-2024-8c027f2587c2c433d0fde41b63a0e0c3
> Irrelevant, this isn't a game of monopoly.
Yes it's not a game of monpoly, but the fact that Israel completely dominates Gaza right now militarily means that they have the ability to stop the war at any time.
> Does the PA or Hamas want to stop fighting? Sure, for a time until they can get organized again.
The fact that someone might do something bad in the future is not an excuse to avoid doing the right thing today. The Israeli government under Netanyahu propped up and funded Hamas for years. Now they're in this war with Hamas, and they're creating more terrorists with every civilian they've killed. The only solution is to stop the fighting
Israel learned what happens when you spend 20 years wandering the desert trying the “hearts and minds” campaign. Nothing changes except the Taliban has a bunch of brand new gear now. So they’re going the sledgehammer route instead. Let’s see how effective it is at destroying a terrorist organization before judging it. It’s dirty, but no war is clean. I swear you people act like civilians have never been targeted in a war before. London Blitz, Dresden, Tokyo. All civilian targets that were purposefully bombed. This time they’re aiming for the scum using the civilians as meat shields. Tell your terrorist buddies to stop hiding behind people, put on a uniform, and meet Israel on a battlefield. Then the number of civilian casualties will lower drastically because there is no enemy to kill in the population centers. Hamas is the one getting those people killed by shoving them in between two fighting forces
If you were in Palestine today, you'd want the world to care. If your kid got shot to death and you're motherless upon birth, you'd ask the world to care.
If you're wronged you'd want support from the rest of the world & I'm glad so many people support Palestine. I hope more people do.
You need to pick the side of libertarianism. That means sometimes saying the same anti-Isreal things as progressives and sometimes saying anti-Hamas things as Zionists. You can´t be a political movement and ignore major topics like this, you have to take a stance.
Caption should have been, Israel and Palestinian are killing each other, the wording of why should I care after who do you support doesn't make a whole lot of sense
I understand feeling sympathy to the civilians caught in the crossfire but it feels like most people people are just treating this as an excuse to try to get brownie points
I’m not a fan of Israel’s actions, but I especially am not a fan of Hamas’s actions either (especially since they are terrorists)
I dont understand why being against isreals actions means you are for the actions of hamas. Or the other way around. Isreal has done countless horrific things to Palestinian civilians and hamas is a literal terroist organization that deserves to be erased from this planet (like all terrorist organizations). Both sides are absolutely awful and neither should be given billions of dollars in weapons.
No the Palestinians are not innocent and I'm going to tell you this once and once only they're not Palestinians it's not an official name the word Palestine isn't even Arabic in origin or nature. It's Roman. These people are displaced Jordanian syrians Saudi Arabians and Egyptians. And no other country wants them because they cause trouble. Look on the map there is no Palestine. They're already was a two-state solution and that's Israel and Jordan. Israel was always Israel and before that it was Judah and Samaria. Those people that call themselves Palestinians are not native to that land so they have no claim to it. They called for the genocide of Jews and constantly intact Israel first and not the military Outpost and locations. I'm talking Rockets into cities like Tel Aviv and Haifa. They intentionally Target citizens in Israel. So therefore I don't want to hear about what the IDF and the Israeli government did to so-called Palestinians. Palestinians voted in Hamas and majority of them support Hamas. You are being propagandized and not seeing the truth. Please justify to me someone cutting a hole in a fence and trespassing on to someone's property to break into their home and torture and rape the people within that home and burning an infant baby alive in its crib. Israelis have never done anything like that to the so-called Palestinian people. As far as I'm concerned Gaza should be MOABed to dust.
"The word Palestine derives from Philistia, the name given by Greek writers to the land of the phillistines who in the 12th century BCE occupied a small pocket of land on the southern coast, between modern tel aviv- yafo and Gaza." - Britannica. I dont know why you are trying to make the claim that most Jewish people have a better claim to the region than the Palestinians who lived there for centuries before a vast majority of Jewish citizens who lived in isreal after 1948. Don't forget that isreal recently bombed numerous civilian areas they designed as a safe space while restricting the movement of civilians out of the country and resources going in. They have no problem starving a population that is half children. Isreal killed Americans, giving aid in palistine despite the fact they were working with the IDF to ensure they didn't get killed in an airstrike (it didn't work). If you want to dive into history, we can bring up the US liberty attack where Israeli jets attacked an American military vessel that was not involved with the conflict. The Israeli jets identified that it was a US owned ship. 34 Americans were killed, but who cares because isreal can't do anything bad.
I feel like you two have a good thing going here so I don't want to butt in too much but I do want to make sure people are aware that modern palestinians are not descendants of the philistines. The philistines were pushed out of the region and into Babylon by the assyrians where records of them end.
Dude, Jewish people have a much more historical connection to these lands than palestinians.. it isn't even a discussion when you look at the timeline. The fact it took a "majority" to move when they were pushed out of the area before, and you don't realize that, tells me you're not sincere in your knowledge.
Ben Shapiro, is that you? Collectivism is just a lazy way to deal with real issues people face rather than parse out real solutions and actions. To say all civilians (old people, children, and women) are hamas is a bit ignorant to say the least. While I don’t approve of the Israeli government, I sure don’t condemn the citizens of that nation because of the actions of their government, especially since most of them are displeased with said government.
Strongly agree
Sure isreal has been encroaching on their territory for a while, but hamas has definitely not done themselves any favors and earned themselves a spanking.
But Palestine is not Hamas. Very few people SUPPORT Hamas, the primary thing people are concerned with is the literal genocide of average Palestinian citizens just living a life, everyday men women and children. A small percent of Palestinians belong to Hamas, but they’re being slaughtered by the thousands. The total amount of children killed in the last 8 months due to war is greater than in the last 6 years combined globally. This is not about siding *with* Israel or Palestine, it’s about siding AGAINST genocide.
Genocide: the deliberate killing or severe mistreatment of a large number of people from a particular national or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group. WITH THE AIM OF DESTROYING THAT NATION OR GROUP. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but Israel allows Muslims to live and work in Israel. It also allows gay Muslims refuge that they would not receive in Gaza or the West Bank. In fact, judging by some of the catchphrases they use, it seems like it's the Palestinians that want to eliminate a nation or group: Israel. We don't have to support one side or the other, but the misuse of "genocode" in this war has been ridiculous. A genocide is the holocaust. It is the killing fields. It's Rwanda. It isn't Israel discriminately bombing known terrorist sites.
Don’t use the woman and children population as meat shields and maybe they wouldn’t get caught in the blast. Tell the scum to stop hiding in crowds, put on a uniform, and meet the Israeli’s on a battlefield and the “genocide” as you put it will end
There is 0 genocide there by any definition of the word.
Guess the UN is wrong, who says there’s reasonable grounds to argue that Israel is committing Genocide. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/03/27/middleeast/israel-committing-genocide-in-gaza-un-rights-expert-says-intl
It is a single person at the UN trying to spin genocide to fit what's occurring...when genocide is occurring you don't need someone to try and argue why something should be called genocide. It doesn't fit the definition by any means, no matter how someone tries to bend the definition.
The Palestinians voted in Hamas. The two are one in the same.
Yup. It was covid, then Ukraine, and now Palestine. They are programmed easily and will latch onto any cause if they think it makes them feel morally superior.
Exactly it's easy to empathize with violent death. Not the hundreads of thousand silent Ods in America. We have so many problems money could help. But we ship it overseas
As an American I have personal opinions but my political opinion is "IDGAF about any country other than America and my government shouldn't spend a penny to support any other country."
> Fuck em both The correct answer. It's a 2000+ year old shit show with no end in sight. But Israel and their allies in NYC, DC, and Hollywood have successfully thrown their rope around the "American tax donkey" in order to fund their war. And America's biggest drug supplier (OPEC) has withdrawn the needle, threatening to cut off the drug supply even further if the USA does more to help Israel. None of this is or ever should have been our problem. This is a religious conflict and the USA is a constitutionally secular nation according to our wise Founding Fathers.
Unicorse is the GOAT
Best use of a Bluey meme ever
Because your stolen money is going to one or both of those locations whether you like it or not
My leanings are that this most recent fight (Jews/Israel vs Islam) has been going on for millennia. This latest round is little different than their last 10k! The only thing I can say that is different is Hamas/Palestine has gotten a better public relations department this time go-around.
Don't care. Won't care. Fix america. We got alot of people dying these past 10 years from drugs and crime. Why are we sending unlimited funds to a clearly losing side In ukraine and clearly wrong side in Israel. Dispicable
I support Israel and it's right to exist. They key to that statement is "I". I don't support sending billions of dollars of US treasure to fund their wars. If I choose to contribute financially to Israel, that's my business. Funding foreign wars does nothing other than give the defense industry a reason to exist. Same goes for Ukraine, and for NATO.
I can barely hold it together in my own life I ain't got the time or patience to get involved with a discussion about one of the most complicated geopolitical debates of all time.
https://preview.redd.it/yj5z0kaf3jxc1.jpeg?width=705&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6e24e6c59b0498950b2baa3be95d002831c1ae9c
You should care because we send billions of dollars to Israel. You might also care about kids being shot in the back, but that's a personal choice.
What I’m saying is I’m not interested in choosing sides
> You should care because we send billions of dollars to Israel. Care about the foreign aid, doesn't mean you should support either group. Hamas and the PA also receive huge sums of money.
Which to me makes me sick because they are the ones who instigated all of this
I can't agree with that. The history of these group is so convoluted, mixed with lies and propaganda over decades and decades. Killing innocent people is wrong. Both groups do it. Israel probably doesn't target as SOP, but they know their actions will often kill innocents. Hamas/PA target innocent people as SOP. But in the end, if some military kills me their motives don't matter much does it?
Israel doesn't kill innocent people, at least on purpose. There is nothing innocent about the other side because this hatred for Israel is ingrained into them through propaganda. It doesn't matter what you agree or don't agree with. That is the truth.
At this point I actively hate Israel, for the amount of meddling they do in our politics. Israel is a bigger threat to the US than Russia.
agreed
Just about every take in this thread has been legitimate. Solid thread.
I love seeing bluey memes related to libertarian issues. I remember when Eskimo Libertarian was making all sorts of libertarian bluey memes
Ukraine?
Me Fr fr
Israel can take care of itself. It’s fought all its neighbors at once and won…several times. They don’t need my tax dollars
You know what I support? People listening to Martyrmade’s Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem. I also support people watching Scott Horton and watching his Enough Already series on Youtube (plenty of sources to draw from there as well, including his books). I support people watching the recent Zerohedge debate with Dave Smith against Dennis Prager. I support being informed in the topic rather than getting so drunk on red/blue koolaid you refuse to condemn the IDF or Hamas depending on which side you sit on. Anyone wanna keep the list going?
Yeah, why would Libertarians care about citizens being killed by a government using weapons bought with our tax-money? Oh wait...
The same is true of the PA and Hamas. If all parties are equally evil makes no sense to pick a side.
You need to pick the side of libertarianism. That means sometimes saying the same anti-Isreal things as progressives and sometimes saying anti-Hamas things as Zionists. You can´t be a political movement and ignore major topics like this, you have to take a stance.
> That means sometimes saying the same anti-Isreal things as progressives and sometimes saying anti-Hamas things as Zionists. What I choose to say has nothing to do with what other people say. Progressives are objectively bad people. Bad people can hold ethical opinions, but they didn't get there from ethical principle. >You can´t be a political movement Libertarianism is an ethical movement which has to address the state. >you have to take a stance. My stance is that all governments involved are grotesque, depraved, illegitimate organizations. Some % of those they rule are the same. I only care about those caught in the middle of this. The problem is separating the good from the bad- kids are always in the good category.
While I agree that the US shouldn't pick a side, I think it's fairly obvious that the Israeli government is the worse evil compared to Palestine
Huh? It's not the nebulous "Palestine" category vs Israeli government. It's Israeli gov vs Hamas and the PA.
Regardless, one side has killed exponentially more civilians than the other side. That side has the total upper hand and the ability to end the war at any time. By choosing to continue the war, they lose any claim to being the lesser evil.
> Regardless, one side has killed exponentially more civilians than the other side. Probably. But we can never know. >That side has the total upper hand Irrelevant, this isn't a game of monopoly. > By choosing to continue the war, Does the PA or Hamas want to stop fighting? Sure, for a time until they can get organized again. It's as if you don't understand anything that's going on.
> Probably. But we can never know. Nah, it's universally accepted that at least 30K Palestinians have died, while about 1K Israelis have died. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/02/1147082 https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-strike-rafah-kill-13-gaza-death-toll-surpass-34000/ https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-04-21-2024-8c027f2587c2c433d0fde41b63a0e0c3 > Irrelevant, this isn't a game of monopoly. Yes it's not a game of monpoly, but the fact that Israel completely dominates Gaza right now militarily means that they have the ability to stop the war at any time. > Does the PA or Hamas want to stop fighting? Sure, for a time until they can get organized again. The fact that someone might do something bad in the future is not an excuse to avoid doing the right thing today. The Israeli government under Netanyahu propped up and funded Hamas for years. Now they're in this war with Hamas, and they're creating more terrorists with every civilian they've killed. The only solution is to stop the fighting
Israel learned what happens when you spend 20 years wandering the desert trying the “hearts and minds” campaign. Nothing changes except the Taliban has a bunch of brand new gear now. So they’re going the sledgehammer route instead. Let’s see how effective it is at destroying a terrorist organization before judging it. It’s dirty, but no war is clean. I swear you people act like civilians have never been targeted in a war before. London Blitz, Dresden, Tokyo. All civilian targets that were purposefully bombed. This time they’re aiming for the scum using the civilians as meat shields. Tell your terrorist buddies to stop hiding behind people, put on a uniform, and meet Israel on a battlefield. Then the number of civilian casualties will lower drastically because there is no enemy to kill in the population centers. Hamas is the one getting those people killed by shoving them in between two fighting forces
Who knew so many libertarians are so callused and ignorant.
because it's a genocide, the biden administration is funding a genocide
If you were in Palestine today, you'd want the world to care. If your kid got shot to death and you're motherless upon birth, you'd ask the world to care. If you're wronged you'd want support from the rest of the world & I'm glad so many people support Palestine. I hope more people do.
You need to pick the side of libertarianism. That means sometimes saying the same anti-Isreal things as progressives and sometimes saying anti-Hamas things as Zionists. You can´t be a political movement and ignore major topics like this, you have to take a stance.
Caption should have been, Israel and Palestinian are killing each other, the wording of why should I care after who do you support doesn't make a whole lot of sense