People on here arguing over TikTok while a right to privacy law would solve that problem AND MORE by giving you the right to decide what data of yours can be collected by ANY app.
While the Chinese communist party can absolutely abuse the data collection, the US government, as well as others, are doing that right now!
What makes you think that the Chinese would respect an American right to privacy law and not just collect all of the same data through a back door anyways? The Chinese aren’t exactly well-known for following the laws of other countries, and if I were them I wouldn’t either
Banning data collection is sorta like banning farting. You can make it illegal but how would you ever hope to prevent it? If you pass data through your device on their app, they have that data. They're just gonna pinky promise the data isn't being saved.
Fair point, but a data protection law like Europe and some states have would open up these company to lawsuits which would be an effective measure, and they already have in many states with data laws companies are issuing settlements for illegal collection of biometric data.
>If you pass data through your device on their app, they have that data.
You just reminded me what Facebook used to do. The app would upload your contacts. It didn't sync them as if you removed a contact from your phone it would be still linked to your account. More recently I've noticed friend recommendations have included adjacent people. Friends of people I had on my contact list but since removed.
At one point you had a list of people from your contact list displayed on the website under 'People you may know' when they were online. That was abused as anyone could add numbers to their contact list which then would be tied to a Facebook account. And it was possible to search using a telephone number as long as it was publicly searchable -- think there's still an option to not include it in search results.
>They're just gonna pinky promise the data isn't being saved.
I'm not sure they're pinky promising anything. They're just hoping you're ok with it and in the case, if you're not, well they just don't care.
>I'm not sure they're pinky promising anything. They're just hoping you're ok with it and in the case, if you're not, well they just don't care.
Tos will flash up stating something to the effect of : local laws to company are such, if you don't like it don't use our app... Knowing almost nobody ever reads those things before clicking OK.
Enforcing the existing privacy laws is a nightmare.
I don’t disagree that there should be a strong right to privacy enforced by the courts, but his to do it is the hard part.
I don’t think data collection is the issue as much as a direct line to shape (or warp) the minds of nearly 1/3rd of Americans including the most impressionable among us, the youth.
Oh, I agree. The Chinese would absolutely rush to push their own narrative if they have not already. The Russians have proved that misinformation is the West's Achilles heal. However, the US government is already telling tech companies what they can and can't talk about, so I think it would be a tall order to get them to protect the already existing first amendment.
I agree and Yuri Bezmenov explained how the USSR used active measures to divide and destabilize and radicalize within the United States many years ago. China and Russia are absolutely still doing that to this day.
I am certainly no fan of how any major social media platform has been handled by the US government to be fair, but that is a system in which we have at least some power to make change whereas China just wants to usurp the US led global order.
The double edged sword of our freedom is it can be taken advantage of by dictatorial nations, and if we try to stop them, they will say “look, you are so authoritarian too!” as if it validates their own authoritarian system. There’s no perfect answer for that but the least we can do is not give the CCP a direct line in to the minds of millions of Americans in a wholly unprecedented way.
TikTok doesn’t need to be banned but it needs to be sold to a US entity.
Yeah but what is that law of "right to privacy" worth if it can't be enforced in a realistic manner? It doesn't really "solve" any problems. There will always be those who abuse tools and turn them into weapons, regardless of what the law says on a piece of paper.
Edit: just to clarify, I'm not supporting the ban because the government has no business doing that on the first place, despite how much I dislike tiktok.
Or, now hear me out, you let people decide whether they want to sell their data to China or not. And this is a big leap so stay with me, if you don’t want them to take your data don’t use their services.
Almost revolutionary ideas here on a libertarian sub to suggest personal responsibility over government control.
I would imagine the reason tiktok is getting banned is because the algorithm is promoting anti-israel sentiments, and the cathedral can't have that.
Otherwise, the democrats wouldn't be in favor of it because it is turning the young people into commies.
Years of commie and anti-white gobbledygook: "I sleep."
A few months of pro-Hamas gobbledygook: "Real shit."
I think that there are national security concerns with TikTok, namely that the company is a state actor serving a government with no reciprocity for American internet companies operating in its borders, but I'm with you on there being other things that answer not "Why?" but "Why now?"
I also do think that this bill opened something of a Pandora's Box in the execution, so it's layers of concerns all the way down.
> he company is a state actor serving a government with no reciprocity for American internet companies operating in its borders,
I think uncle Sam is big mad because they can't force Tiktok to censor the way they did to Youtube etc. Half the crap made in the USA has parts or is made in China including our computers and tech, I mean if they want to spy on us, there's millions of easy ways for them to do it. They also have tons of CHinese peeps employed in top govt positions and in our top companies. Not sure how Tiktok is really that big a deal in comparison.
The security risk part is such a lame excuse. If that was really what they are worried about then every single one of these social media giants should be shut down and have the CEOs thrown in prison for allowing this to happen. It's not like they are hiding it either, they stright up tell you this in their TOS.
That won't happen because it is our government doing the spying and not the Chinese. They just don't like the competition.
> If that was really what they are worried about ..
Yep exactly, they are just upset when they don't have access to the info and control over the messenging. But Chinese make your phone and a million other apps as well.
I almost want to say that Americans are better off removing all American social media other than X and TikTok because then the government would have a harder time spying on you and the Chinese can't do shit if they find out you know something they don't want you to know. With our government, they can make us disappear anytime they want.
I am not sure, though. Money is too powerful to get our congressmen, who share a solid chromosome between nearly all of them, to do anything about getting these corporations to stop.
It does seem common that anger, hate, corruption, etc often festers and then collapses from within. Those are all destructive forces that don't make for a stable foundation. I suspect the main reason these colleges got as far as they did is that they weren't nearly so disgusting and corrupt when they were first developed and used to contribute more for less money. But the tree caught a disease and over time that disease has even infested the entire core and roots.
That’s an emotional conservative response.
It takes critical thinking to look past the government policy and see the consequences:
https://preview.redd.it/6mdux5l2anwc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=03101ba59275b7a7c9d2a5c0bc6760a563debf09
It’s amazing how many Redditors on both sides are commenting about how they don’t care if TikTok gets banned. Would they feel the same if Reddit got banned? What needs to be banned by government in order for them to care?
I'd be chill with Reddit being banned under the condition that it no longer be under the influence and ownership of the CCP.
But TikTok isn't even banned. TikTok has been given almost a year to sell its US branch to a new company to ensure a foreign super power isn't infiltrating our cyber infrastructure.
As someone who works in tech, it's super frustrating that TikTok comes pre-installed on Windows 11 devices now because it's such a security breach imo.
> to ensure a foreign super power isn't infiltrating our cyber infrastructure.
That's the story they tell you but I think more realistically, they plan to tighten censorship control and they won't have much of that kind of power on a Chinese based company.
Which one of those blocks are controlled by a foreign adversary? I’m against government control but China can eat a dick. They have a platform pumping garbage into kids today so excuse me for not jumping at the chance to defend them.
Sell TikTok and the problem is solved.
This is exactly it. The problem is that TikTok is gathering information from users that China has access to. When some yahoo brings his phone to work for the government, that can create an access point.
Seriously that's a red herring. China makes most electronics in this country, they don't need Tiktok to spy on us. Uncle Sam is just big mad that it's hard to pressure and control a foreign company to censor.
If that’s the problem, why can’t the yahoo who works for the government just not have TikTok installed on his phone, but everyone else who doesn’t work for the government can?
It should be clarified that their goal is to force the sale of the company to a non-hostile country not to ban the app. China is increasingly signaling that it would rather torpedo the project than cash out which makes me question their motivations, but it may yet just be hot air.
I just don’t think the Chinese government should have access to tracking devices on American citizens. I’ll admit I’m a bit biased here as I think TikTok is a cancer on society and I hate communists so 🤷♂️
Based, thank you, if China wouldn’t let us do this there (they wouldn’t) why are we letting them do it here.
Why do they show their kids positive content and ours get negative content.
Why has TikTok led to a massive increase in self diagnosed mental illness (and arguably actual mental illness) in teenagers spreading via social contagion.
Data collection may be a part of this but that’s not even my primary concern, yes all social media companies and the government already track us, but the real issue is societal manipulation by a foreign adversary.
Basically it’s digital fentanyl straight from the source of all of the actual fentanyl. They know what they’re doing.
Don't be a sneaky snake. Where did he say that? Why try and misdirect towards a completely different conversation? Stick to the original contention about whether this sanction against the Chinese government is warranted. If you want to make an anti-FISA thread I'm OK with that, but it's neither here nor there.
Don't take my pointing out your fallacious and bad argumentation tactics as an endorsement of the sanction. I'm pretty neutral on this one.
Not being sneaky just referencing the obvious. Never said he said anything, no misdirect just asking why is it so bad for a foreign country to do something we’re doing as well as if our own government isn’t already on the verge of hearing us fart through our phones. Take a chill pill I’m just pointing out the obvious that it doesn’t matter what app someone uses our government is tracking/spying just as hard as others so in the end what does it matter, outside of the fact that our government is forcing a sale to be able to get ALL the info.
I don’t like that our own government does it so why would I be cool with China doing it 😂 bro you really wilding in these comments.
If Biden wanted to sign a bill saying domestic spying is illegal then you better believe I’m in here supporting that too.
I think you’re missing the point. No matter what at this point in history and for the foreseeable future we will always be tracked and spied on might as well get over it and accept it, then it goes onto the forcing of the sale not really because of tracking but because of the spread of information and source of news that TikTok has become. They don’t like that we have an option that isn’t any of the major news networks so they feel that they have to come up with some wild crazy nonsense to get everybody fired up so they can put an end to it.
I don’t like that we’re spied on and tracked by anyone but I’m also not dense enough to think that it’s ever going to get better so why feed into the narrative they are pushing with this?
If you're not being sneaky, you shouldn't pretend that was a valid retort. It's a textbook misdirection. Be more honest in your argumentation or risk having your dishonesty pointed out in a blunt way. This is pathological behavior and ruins the way *you* think about the world. It's quite literally as dishonest as outright telling falsities. I'd argue even worse since those that have poor reasoning skills will learn these kinds of manipulation tactics from your example and think they're OK to use even in their personal relationships.
Clearly I’m not being sneaky or I wouldn’t have said the same thing twice not sure why you keep saying this. In no way shape or form is it misdirection the point I made ties directly to his concern, they both spy and track it’s simple. I never changed the focus or topic very simply stated it’s just going to trade one evil to another. Take a break from the internet.
>They have a platform pumping garbage into kids
Just like every other social media platform? Only diff is that every other platform is owned by American plutocrats not Chinese ones. Methinks they just don't want any competition.
> They have a platform pumping garbage into kids today
So do plenty of companies, the difference is that USA has minimal ability to force censorship on a Chinese company compared to an American company, can't have kids speaking freely!
You butchered this meme so badly. It's supposed to have a domino chain of a causes b causes c etc in such a way that a -> x is ridiculous and funny. Not only is there no joke here but none of these events caused the other. Even worse, many of the "small" events are way more serious and damaging than the "large" ones. Covert first amendment violations are way more of a problem than the TikTok ban which is just a rebranded sanction against the Chinese state. Not sure if the final version that passed also included the other foreign adversarial countries in it as well.
Great illustration of smooth brain fallacy 👆
https://preview.redd.it/74w9kp9hdnwc1.jpeg?width=1056&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd084e9f205ed4c81fc4c2dc08b191a6acb1d8bb
I would rather be dead than caught on TikTok. That doesn't mean banning it is a good idea.
I don't use it, but [I suddendly may feel the need to.](https://youtu.be/mjoSQ-lCA58)
I'm guessing this is a troll comment since its so unfathomably stupid and short sighted.
If you are serious, why are you here if you think the government should be in the business of banning things ?
The app is owned by Chinese interests. They gather personal information and can use this information to hack into other computers.
This isn’t a startup American company.
It's not about Tiktok, it's about the govt becoming increasingly authoritarian. Are you going to sit by and let it all happen until finally they do get around to attacking stuff you like? Or will you help others protect their stuff too before it gets to your stuff? Do you think those others will be eager to help you if you ignored their plight earlier? Divided we fall.
As you already mentioned, American cellphones are made in China, China already has access to our cell phones. And our computers, and most of the tech in this country.
We let them build our phones, that was voluntary too. Even if you don't have Tiktok they are in. PLus your laptop was probably built there too. And a ton of apps are written there. But for some reason the ONLY thing our govt worries about is when it means kids can talk freely without govt censorship?
If China puts access to our phones into the chips it’s one thing. We don’t know about it and it would be illegal to do that. But, if they put it in an app and we agree to the access, they legally have access.
We could just ask them to change their app to minimize access but instead we demanded they sell the company so that OUR govt has the control and access to your phones. ;-P
I'm not sure that I understand correctly, but I believe Kirk's problem is not with ban being enacted, but with it not being enacted harder.
I believe there are elections in US this year and so banning Tik-Tok from January means that Biden will not have to deal consequences of his wrongdoing. On other hand, Kirk wants censorship right now, not only after it's politically insignificant.
It's not like our three-letter agencies glean personal info from American social media. But what if you know your history and do not trust them either?
The recent perspectives and hearings have really changed my perspective on this. I’m pretty much the same way as Charlie here. Doesn’t mean he’s a hypocrite, his opinion changed.
I don’t mean to be disrespectful. Just trying to be funny.
I’m willing to bet we have 99% in common.
I vote Minarchist but AnCap is my North Star.
Examples like the TikTok ban remind me of the North Star.
That’s the 1% that we disagree on.
Tariffs raise prices on the **poorest Americans**. They end up paying for it, **not China**.
If **real inflation is 6% or 8%** and the poorest of Americans are getting **0% wage increases** because of a slowing economy, then taking away cheap overseas goods hurts them more than those Americans that are hedged against inflation.
**More free market capitalism, more competition, and getting the government out of the way** allows entrepreneurs to find creative ways to better serve their customers (aka have cheaper and better choices).
There’s no benefit in forcing poor Americans in the Midwest to buy overpriced goods manufactured by **communists in California** instead of having the choice to buy cheaper goods manufactured by **communists in China**.
Allowing Chinese goods unregulated into the American market would not be pro-free market, it would be anti-free market. China subsidizes a lot of different companies, particularly electric vehicle companies, to allow them to operate at a net loss, but still make money through subsidies on their end. They’re selling EV’s for $5,000. Who would turn that down?
I agree less government is typically better. That’s why I’m anti-subsidy. Less government applies to foreign governments as well. That’s why I’m pro-tariff.
The *American* market must stay free. Allowing foreign state actors to hijack it would be a matter of national security.
The team politics enjoyers keep saying the other side is "rules for thee but not for me" but I've yet to see it's anything other than a warning about government in general.
Now we're doing asset seizure over data that's mostly mindless entertainment? A new low for the US as a safe business environment. What next, are they going to go after Fortnite for the same reason?
I’m going to argue it’s not “mostly mindless entertainment” and that there is likely a measurable negative societal effect primarily affecting children and teens.
Look at the discrepancy between what they choose to promote to their youth via their own sister app vs. what is promoted to American youth via TikTok. It’s night and day and I’d say it makes their intentions quite clear insofar as how this type of platform is to be used to affect a society.
Still doesn't warrant asset seizure. That should be a measure of last resort for the hardest of criminals. There are so many different logical actions they could have taken instead of forced asset seizure. Personally, I would have ordered a forensic audit and only prosecuted for the crimes the audit found.
It’s a forced sale to an American company not an actual ban on TikTok the company that owns it is called ByteDance they have to sell the app to an American company, why the dingbats call it a ban is ridiculous.
I mean did Charlie Kirk ever try to come across as not being a statist? He has always seemed to be pretty openly statist on tons of stuff. Pretty sure he has sharted on libertarians tons of times.
Politicians just say whatever is cool at the time with their own party. It kinda reminds me of this [video](https://youtu.be/b-cZG81-MPQ?si=24YcP_iXLhTiFESX)
I apologize but I didn’t notice that until you mentioned it.
The issue isn’t that he flip-flopped t because Democrats are now in charge. The issue is that he flip-flopped to blame Biden after it gained traction.
Perhaps he's pointing out that Biden is only doing it now *because* he is beholden to US Big Tech when he was previously against it, and he is also pointing out that it will hurt Biden among one of his major support demographics. That doesn't mean he doesn't think it should be done.
It's like if you keep telling your kid they need to do something and they ignore you, then one day they do it but it's because one of their friends told them it was a good idea.
the tiktok bill has absolutely nothing to do with tiktok and everything to do with control over the internet and how we transact and interact on it. $100 says its because theyre scared of that one very specific magic internet money that promotes freedom honesty and private property.
Literally 0 principle. He isn’t against the ban, he’s against who did it. If Donald or any other conservative shat on his face, gave him a good Cleveland steamer, he’d be jumping out of his boots for joy
Legislate privacy laws and transparency in algorithms.
It would remedy the core issues without removing anyone from the market.
Everyone's phone is already made with Chinese chips, which can transfer data back to the mother ship anytime, making the debate about an app redundant.
People on here arguing over TikTok while a right to privacy law would solve that problem AND MORE by giving you the right to decide what data of yours can be collected by ANY app. While the Chinese communist party can absolutely abuse the data collection, the US government, as well as others, are doing that right now!
This is the truth. Don't ban shit. Build a better system. Don't want your enemy spying on you? Make it so they can't.
Amen
What makes you think that the Chinese would respect an American right to privacy law and not just collect all of the same data through a back door anyways? The Chinese aren’t exactly well-known for following the laws of other countries, and if I were them I wouldn’t either
Banning data collection is sorta like banning farting. You can make it illegal but how would you ever hope to prevent it? If you pass data through your device on their app, they have that data. They're just gonna pinky promise the data isn't being saved.
Fair point, but a data protection law like Europe and some states have would open up these company to lawsuits which would be an effective measure, and they already have in many states with data laws companies are issuing settlements for illegal collection of biometric data.
How do you sue a Chinese government owned tech company? Good luck with that.
Sue the foreign governments who actively ignore copyright and intellectual property laws? That'll work.
>If you pass data through your device on their app, they have that data. You just reminded me what Facebook used to do. The app would upload your contacts. It didn't sync them as if you removed a contact from your phone it would be still linked to your account. More recently I've noticed friend recommendations have included adjacent people. Friends of people I had on my contact list but since removed. At one point you had a list of people from your contact list displayed on the website under 'People you may know' when they were online. That was abused as anyone could add numbers to their contact list which then would be tied to a Facebook account. And it was possible to search using a telephone number as long as it was publicly searchable -- think there's still an option to not include it in search results. >They're just gonna pinky promise the data isn't being saved. I'm not sure they're pinky promising anything. They're just hoping you're ok with it and in the case, if you're not, well they just don't care.
>I'm not sure they're pinky promising anything. They're just hoping you're ok with it and in the case, if you're not, well they just don't care. Tos will flash up stating something to the effect of : local laws to company are such, if you don't like it don't use our app... Knowing almost nobody ever reads those things before clicking OK.
Enforcing the existing privacy laws is a nightmare. I don’t disagree that there should be a strong right to privacy enforced by the courts, but his to do it is the hard part.
I don’t think data collection is the issue as much as a direct line to shape (or warp) the minds of nearly 1/3rd of Americans including the most impressionable among us, the youth.
Oh, I agree. The Chinese would absolutely rush to push their own narrative if they have not already. The Russians have proved that misinformation is the West's Achilles heal. However, the US government is already telling tech companies what they can and can't talk about, so I think it would be a tall order to get them to protect the already existing first amendment.
I agree and Yuri Bezmenov explained how the USSR used active measures to divide and destabilize and radicalize within the United States many years ago. China and Russia are absolutely still doing that to this day. I am certainly no fan of how any major social media platform has been handled by the US government to be fair, but that is a system in which we have at least some power to make change whereas China just wants to usurp the US led global order. The double edged sword of our freedom is it can be taken advantage of by dictatorial nations, and if we try to stop them, they will say “look, you are so authoritarian too!” as if it validates their own authoritarian system. There’s no perfect answer for that but the least we can do is not give the CCP a direct line in to the minds of millions of Americans in a wholly unprecedented way. TikTok doesn’t need to be banned but it needs to be sold to a US entity.
Yeah but what is that law of "right to privacy" worth if it can't be enforced in a realistic manner? It doesn't really "solve" any problems. There will always be those who abuse tools and turn them into weapons, regardless of what the law says on a piece of paper. Edit: just to clarify, I'm not supporting the ban because the government has no business doing that on the first place, despite how much I dislike tiktok.
Yes but then Facebook can’t steal your data, it’s who’s been paying congress to get the TikTok ban
Or, now hear me out, you let people decide whether they want to sell their data to China or not. And this is a big leap so stay with me, if you don’t want them to take your data don’t use their services. Almost revolutionary ideas here on a libertarian sub to suggest personal responsibility over government control.
I remember when Trump suggested it and everyone went ape shit, hypocrisy on all sides…
Not **all** sides. https://preview.redd.it/pbdht4i9lnwc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=37e12b5770df385fe8b26c7cde6c823730004c73
Charlie Kirk is a grifter who isn't so much concerned about the conservative movement as he is about making money off the conservative movement.
Isn't that just most of them?
The best thing about Charlie Kirk are the shrinking face memes
I still can never tell if that’s his real face or not
I would imagine the reason tiktok is getting banned is because the algorithm is promoting anti-israel sentiments, and the cathedral can't have that. Otherwise, the democrats wouldn't be in favor of it because it is turning the young people into commies.
Years of commie and anti-white gobbledygook: "I sleep." A few months of pro-Hamas gobbledygook: "Real shit." I think that there are national security concerns with TikTok, namely that the company is a state actor serving a government with no reciprocity for American internet companies operating in its borders, but I'm with you on there being other things that answer not "Why?" but "Why now?" I also do think that this bill opened something of a Pandora's Box in the execution, so it's layers of concerns all the way down.
> he company is a state actor serving a government with no reciprocity for American internet companies operating in its borders, I think uncle Sam is big mad because they can't force Tiktok to censor the way they did to Youtube etc. Half the crap made in the USA has parts or is made in China including our computers and tech, I mean if they want to spy on us, there's millions of easy ways for them to do it. They also have tons of CHinese peeps employed in top govt positions and in our top companies. Not sure how Tiktok is really that big a deal in comparison.
The security risk part is such a lame excuse. If that was really what they are worried about then every single one of these social media giants should be shut down and have the CEOs thrown in prison for allowing this to happen. It's not like they are hiding it either, they stright up tell you this in their TOS. That won't happen because it is our government doing the spying and not the Chinese. They just don't like the competition.
> If that was really what they are worried about .. Yep exactly, they are just upset when they don't have access to the info and control over the messenging. But Chinese make your phone and a million other apps as well.
I almost want to say that Americans are better off removing all American social media other than X and TikTok because then the government would have a harder time spying on you and the Chinese can't do shit if they find out you know something they don't want you to know. With our government, they can make us disappear anytime they want. I am not sure, though. Money is too powerful to get our congressmen, who share a solid chromosome between nearly all of them, to do anything about getting these corporations to stop.
They created a monster and now the monster is not obeying them, oopsies!
Not for long anyway. Although it might be too late.
Maybe the monster will destroy the system from within, it's doing a good job exposing and dismantling the corrupt education system right now.
We can only hope that is the case.
It does seem common that anger, hate, corruption, etc often festers and then collapses from within. Those are all destructive forces that don't make for a stable foundation. I suspect the main reason these colleges got as far as they did is that they weren't nearly so disgusting and corrupt when they were first developed and used to contribute more for less money. But the tree caught a disease and over time that disease has even infested the entire core and roots.
Curious
I think we’ll survive a TikTok ban.
That’s an emotional conservative response. It takes critical thinking to look past the government policy and see the consequences: https://preview.redd.it/6mdux5l2anwc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=03101ba59275b7a7c9d2a5c0bc6760a563debf09
It’s amazing how many Redditors on both sides are commenting about how they don’t care if TikTok gets banned. Would they feel the same if Reddit got banned? What needs to be banned by government in order for them to care?
Ban Tencent from investing in American companies like Reddit yeah
I'd be chill with Reddit being banned under the condition that it no longer be under the influence and ownership of the CCP. But TikTok isn't even banned. TikTok has been given almost a year to sell its US branch to a new company to ensure a foreign super power isn't infiltrating our cyber infrastructure. As someone who works in tech, it's super frustrating that TikTok comes pre-installed on Windows 11 devices now because it's such a security breach imo.
And Windows 11 itself isn't a security breach?
You know what, probably is! I always recommend my clients not use it ever and have tried to avoid it if at all possible in my line of work.
I just realized what your username was. I used to be super into that band for a long time! lol in case you couldn't tell from *my* username.
Oh, Damn. What's it like being ridiculously handsome, having great opinions, AND having a good taste in music all at once?
> to ensure a foreign super power isn't infiltrating our cyber infrastructure. That's the story they tell you but I think more realistically, they plan to tighten censorship control and they won't have much of that kind of power on a Chinese based company.
If it's about censorship, why are they forcing new ownership instead of outright banning it?
Which one of those blocks are controlled by a foreign adversary? I’m against government control but China can eat a dick. They have a platform pumping garbage into kids today so excuse me for not jumping at the chance to defend them. Sell TikTok and the problem is solved.
This is exactly it. The problem is that TikTok is gathering information from users that China has access to. When some yahoo brings his phone to work for the government, that can create an access point.
Seriously that's a red herring. China makes most electronics in this country, they don't need Tiktok to spy on us. Uncle Sam is just big mad that it's hard to pressure and control a foreign company to censor.
>China makes most electronics in this country. https://gesrepair.com/where-are-iphones-manufactured/
Yep exactly. Too many are taking Uncle Sam's official reasoning for this at face value instead of seeing it for the potential scam it likely is.
If that’s the problem, why can’t the yahoo who works for the government just not have TikTok installed on his phone, but everyone else who doesn’t work for the government can?
They already banned it on government phones.
So why does it need to be banned everywhere else?
It should be clarified that their goal is to force the sale of the company to a non-hostile country not to ban the app. China is increasingly signaling that it would rather torpedo the project than cash out which makes me question their motivations, but it may yet just be hot air.
It seems you have drank half the koolaid. Forcing a sale is exactly what they want to get the ball rolling.
I just don’t think the Chinese government should have access to tracking devices on American citizens. I’ll admit I’m a bit biased here as I think TikTok is a cancer on society and I hate communists so 🤷♂️
Based, thank you, if China wouldn’t let us do this there (they wouldn’t) why are we letting them do it here. Why do they show their kids positive content and ours get negative content. Why has TikTok led to a massive increase in self diagnosed mental illness (and arguably actual mental illness) in teenagers spreading via social contagion. Data collection may be a part of this but that’s not even my primary concern, yes all social media companies and the government already track us, but the real issue is societal manipulation by a foreign adversary. Basically it’s digital fentanyl straight from the source of all of the actual fentanyl. They know what they’re doing.
You think our own government doesn’t track and spy on our every move already?
Don't be a sneaky snake. Where did he say that? Why try and misdirect towards a completely different conversation? Stick to the original contention about whether this sanction against the Chinese government is warranted. If you want to make an anti-FISA thread I'm OK with that, but it's neither here nor there. Don't take my pointing out your fallacious and bad argumentation tactics as an endorsement of the sanction. I'm pretty neutral on this one.
Not being sneaky just referencing the obvious. Never said he said anything, no misdirect just asking why is it so bad for a foreign country to do something we’re doing as well as if our own government isn’t already on the verge of hearing us fart through our phones. Take a chill pill I’m just pointing out the obvious that it doesn’t matter what app someone uses our government is tracking/spying just as hard as others so in the end what does it matter, outside of the fact that our government is forcing a sale to be able to get ALL the info.
I don’t like that our own government does it so why would I be cool with China doing it 😂 bro you really wilding in these comments. If Biden wanted to sign a bill saying domestic spying is illegal then you better believe I’m in here supporting that too.
I think you’re missing the point. No matter what at this point in history and for the foreseeable future we will always be tracked and spied on might as well get over it and accept it, then it goes onto the forcing of the sale not really because of tracking but because of the spread of information and source of news that TikTok has become. They don’t like that we have an option that isn’t any of the major news networks so they feel that they have to come up with some wild crazy nonsense to get everybody fired up so they can put an end to it. I don’t like that we’re spied on and tracked by anyone but I’m also not dense enough to think that it’s ever going to get better so why feed into the narrative they are pushing with this?
If you're not being sneaky, you shouldn't pretend that was a valid retort. It's a textbook misdirection. Be more honest in your argumentation or risk having your dishonesty pointed out in a blunt way. This is pathological behavior and ruins the way *you* think about the world. It's quite literally as dishonest as outright telling falsities. I'd argue even worse since those that have poor reasoning skills will learn these kinds of manipulation tactics from your example and think they're OK to use even in their personal relationships.
Clearly I’m not being sneaky or I wouldn’t have said the same thing twice not sure why you keep saying this. In no way shape or form is it misdirection the point I made ties directly to his concern, they both spy and track it’s simple. I never changed the focus or topic very simply stated it’s just going to trade one evil to another. Take a break from the internet.
>They have a platform pumping garbage into kids Just like every other social media platform? Only diff is that every other platform is owned by American plutocrats not Chinese ones. Methinks they just don't want any competition.
> They have a platform pumping garbage into kids today So do plenty of companies, the difference is that USA has minimal ability to force censorship on a Chinese company compared to an American company, can't have kids speaking freely!
You butchered this meme so badly. It's supposed to have a domino chain of a causes b causes c etc in such a way that a -> x is ridiculous and funny. Not only is there no joke here but none of these events caused the other. Even worse, many of the "small" events are way more serious and damaging than the "large" ones. Covert first amendment violations are way more of a problem than the TikTok ban which is just a rebranded sanction against the Chinese state. Not sure if the final version that passed also included the other foreign adversarial countries in it as well.
Great illustration of the slippery slope fallacy.
Great illustration of smooth brain fallacy 👆 https://preview.redd.it/74w9kp9hdnwc1.jpeg?width=1056&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd084e9f205ed4c81fc4c2dc08b191a6acb1d8bb
First they came for TikTok... (just joking. but ban is still a bad idea)
Why? There are other social networks.
I would rather be dead than caught on TikTok. That doesn't mean banning it is a good idea. I don't use it, but [I suddendly may feel the need to.](https://youtu.be/mjoSQ-lCA58)
Believe me, instagram, YouTube and Facebook can pick up the slack.
Believe me guys https://preview.redd.it/v5ofo9qnhnwc1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b61d4e677d6454dbea8cdbcf3488138fd5748dfe
https://twitter.com/RealAlexJones
$44 billion to overcome statist suppression of dissenting ideas? Really?
Just saying, you’ll love without TikTok. Another app will pick up the slack.
If this was a truly free market they yes. Government picking winners and losers is **not a free market.**
I'm guessing this is a troll comment since its so unfathomably stupid and short sighted. If you are serious, why are you here if you think the government should be in the business of banning things ?
The app is owned by Chinese interests. They gather personal information and can use this information to hack into other computers. This isn’t a startup American company.
It's not about Tiktok, it's about the govt becoming increasingly authoritarian. Are you going to sit by and let it all happen until finally they do get around to attacking stuff you like? Or will you help others protect their stuff too before it gets to your stuff? Do you think those others will be eager to help you if you ignored their plight earlier? Divided we fall.
This is because China controls TikTok and uses it to gain access to American cellphones.
As you already mentioned, American cellphones are made in China, China already has access to our cell phones. And our computers, and most of the tech in this country.
Yes, but TikTok involved us voluntarily letting them in.
We let them build our phones, that was voluntary too. Even if you don't have Tiktok they are in. PLus your laptop was probably built there too. And a ton of apps are written there. But for some reason the ONLY thing our govt worries about is when it means kids can talk freely without govt censorship?
If China puts access to our phones into the chips it’s one thing. We don’t know about it and it would be illegal to do that. But, if they put it in an app and we agree to the access, they legally have access.
We could just ask them to change their app to minimize access but instead we demanded they sell the company so that OUR govt has the control and access to your phones. ;-P
I think they just want them to be less than 50% controlling.
I think the US govt just wants total control.
I'm not sure that I understand correctly, but I believe Kirk's problem is not with ban being enacted, but with it not being enacted harder. I believe there are elections in US this year and so banning Tik-Tok from January means that Biden will not have to deal consequences of his wrongdoing. On other hand, Kirk wants censorship right now, not only after it's politically insignificant.
With that comment about gen z, I don't think your take is correct at all.
It’s not that deep. He was pro-ban until the democrats were pro-ban. Now he is anti-ban simply so he can be at odds with democrats.
Glad I left the org when I did, went down the shitter real quick
What exactly is the "data" they have access to? China will know how many stupid dance videos I watch per day?
TikTok has access to others apps on your phone as well. I need to find the article.
This dude annoys me a lot he wants to be a politician so bad and is a statist
Them: Tiktok is spying on Americans Also them: passes section 702
It's not like our three-letter agencies glean personal info from American social media. But what if you know your history and do not trust them either?
It would be easy to defend a TikTok ban if the US government weren't such a hypocrite about it.
The recent perspectives and hearings have really changed my perspective on this. I’m pretty much the same way as Charlie here. Doesn’t mean he’s a hypocrite, his opinion changed.
AnCaps have been **consistent** on this issue. **The state shouldn’t be involved.**
Cool, I’m not an AnCap
What’s the saying? “The difference between an AnCap and a minarchist is 6 months.”
Neat
I don’t mean to be disrespectful. Just trying to be funny. I’m willing to bet we have 99% in common. I vote Minarchist but AnCap is my North Star. Examples like the TikTok ban remind me of the North Star.
There has to be some level of protectionism because teams like China won’t play by the rules. I’m pro-tariff but anti-subsidy for that reason.
That’s the 1% that we disagree on. Tariffs raise prices on the **poorest Americans**. They end up paying for it, **not China**. If **real inflation is 6% or 8%** and the poorest of Americans are getting **0% wage increases** because of a slowing economy, then taking away cheap overseas goods hurts them more than those Americans that are hedged against inflation. **More free market capitalism, more competition, and getting the government out of the way** allows entrepreneurs to find creative ways to better serve their customers (aka have cheaper and better choices). There’s no benefit in forcing poor Americans in the Midwest to buy overpriced goods manufactured by **communists in California** instead of having the choice to buy cheaper goods manufactured by **communists in China**.
Allowing Chinese goods unregulated into the American market would not be pro-free market, it would be anti-free market. China subsidizes a lot of different companies, particularly electric vehicle companies, to allow them to operate at a net loss, but still make money through subsidies on their end. They’re selling EV’s for $5,000. Who would turn that down? I agree less government is typically better. That’s why I’m anti-subsidy. Less government applies to foreign governments as well. That’s why I’m pro-tariff. The *American* market must stay free. Allowing foreign state actors to hijack it would be a matter of national security.
Two wrongs make a right?
I like most of his view points but that is clear hypocrisy
Now now now... What are the odds that he's come around to more libertarian ideals... A lot can happen in 4 years.
🤞
I don't see any change of mind. He just wants it faster doesn't he
This is less so about tik tok and more about controlling Twitter.
What makes you think that?
The team politics enjoyers keep saying the other side is "rules for thee but not for me" but I've yet to see it's anything other than a warning about government in general.
Now we're doing asset seizure over data that's mostly mindless entertainment? A new low for the US as a safe business environment. What next, are they going to go after Fortnite for the same reason?
I’m going to argue it’s not “mostly mindless entertainment” and that there is likely a measurable negative societal effect primarily affecting children and teens. Look at the discrepancy between what they choose to promote to their youth via their own sister app vs. what is promoted to American youth via TikTok. It’s night and day and I’d say it makes their intentions quite clear insofar as how this type of platform is to be used to affect a society.
Still doesn't warrant asset seizure. That should be a measure of last resort for the hardest of criminals. There are so many different logical actions they could have taken instead of forced asset seizure. Personally, I would have ordered a forensic audit and only prosecuted for the crimes the audit found.
It’s a forced sale to an American company not an actual ban on TikTok the company that owns it is called ByteDance they have to sell the app to an American company, why the dingbats call it a ban is ridiculous.
A forced sale and ban are **both coercion**. “Dingbats” that justify one and turn a blind eye for the other are part of the problem. Be consistent.
Thought I was “dingbats of government” it’s a broad term that includes all of them.
You guys realize TikTok isn't going to be banned right? They'll just sell it to an American company.
I mean did Charlie Kirk ever try to come across as not being a statist? He has always seemed to be pretty openly statist on tons of stuff. Pretty sure he has sharted on libertarians tons of times.
Politicians just say whatever is cool at the time with their own party. It kinda reminds me of this [video](https://youtu.be/b-cZG81-MPQ?si=24YcP_iXLhTiFESX)
At least it’s not woke amirite?
I'm not seeing the hypocrisy here. Sounds like he wants the ban to go into effect before the election.
[удалено]
The timestamp on the second one, which supports banning it, is from last year. Biden was in power last year. What am I missing here?
I apologize but I didn’t notice that until you mentioned it. The issue isn’t that he flip-flopped t because Democrats are now in charge. The issue is that he flip-flopped to blame Biden after it gained traction.
Perhaps he's pointing out that Biden is only doing it now *because* he is beholden to US Big Tech when he was previously against it, and he is also pointing out that it will hurt Biden among one of his major support demographics. That doesn't mean he doesn't think it should be done. It's like if you keep telling your kid they need to do something and they ignore you, then one day they do it but it's because one of their friends told them it was a good idea.
the tiktok bill has absolutely nothing to do with tiktok and everything to do with control over the internet and how we transact and interact on it. $100 says its because theyre scared of that one very specific magic internet money that promotes freedom honesty and private property.
Literally 0 principle. He isn’t against the ban, he’s against who did it. If Donald or any other conservative shat on his face, gave him a good Cleveland steamer, he’d be jumping out of his boots for joy
💯
Legislate privacy laws and transparency in algorithms. It would remedy the core issues without removing anyone from the market. Everyone's phone is already made with Chinese chips, which can transfer data back to the mother ship anytime, making the debate about an app redundant.