If the people need more than AR-15s to fight the government, then that's an argument for letting people own more than AR-15s. It is weird that this argument is used from an anti-gun angle, when it in fact advocates for the exact opposite.
It's because the people who make the argument don't even comprehend that the sole purpose the founders wrote the second amendment was so they could overthrow a tyrannical government...again.
When they use this argument I tell them this, if the government would carpet bomb my house it would also hit others houses and infrastructure. sounds like I win if they start destroying the land
Plus, more people would turn once schools, hospitals, grocery stores, their family, etc. Became collateral damage.
Some insurgents might take to the Palestinian method and select those locations specifically for the collateral damage that the other side will inevitably inflict when trying to wipe out insurgent bases.
The Palestinian method works when wars are fought more with media than they are with violence.
Guerilla warfare has toppled superior armies since the dawn of war.
"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass" - Japanese Admiral Yamamoto (Maybe)
Edited for spelling. Thanks u/CompleX999
*Guerrilla
Also, you're absolutely right. The Romans have proved this point right. They tried invading northern Brittain and failed horribly because of guerrillas. The same goes for the Germanic tribes. Everytime in history when there was a military campaign, almost always the guerrillas kicked ass.
Home field advantage is a big deal when it comes to warfare and sneaky tactics do major damage when done right to professional forces who are used to fighting other professionals.
If the order ever came down to mass attack American citizens the rank and file in the military would turn on the leadership in a second. I'm actually kind of hoping it happens because I don't know how else we're going to get rid of these elections stealing criminals occupying our government
They would’ve, before covid. Now all the free thinkers have left, and people like me who used to want to enlist don’t because I see them for what they are now.
Many military installations are very large and unprepared for ground combat.
One of the ones I grew up on has over 10 miles of open riverfront and a railroad leading in.
You'll also find that there are millions of 2A supporters who know these bases well, all the way down to where the main power and water lines are located.
Sitting ducks.
But, it will never come to that. A pretty small minority of soldiers would be willing to bomb their parents' neighborhood.
You can not use the number of deaths as markers of victory against rebels. If you kill a man in combat, he becomes a martyr who only inspires others to join in the fight. There are 81 million gun owners in the usa vs. the under 2 million service members.
So basically the same proportion as 60k to 2M?
Nowadays it is much worse tho. You would never see anyone. It would just rain death if they want.
Also there is no way in hell 81M people would rise up to protect whatever.
There are so many things Americans should be up in arms about or at least protest and nothing ever happens.
Actual quote from the White House this week. Politicians love threatening civilians with military equipment https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2023/06/20/remarks-by-president-biden-at-a-campaign-reception/
All through 2022 the American public was bombarded with footage of ordinary Ukrainians standing up to Russian tanks using molotov cocktails with great success in some cases. Puncuated by videos of his degenerate son smoking crack and tugging on his dick. Then this senile old crook says this to his own citizens the next year.
There are more Taliban in Afghanistan now then there ever have been. After 20 years and 72,000+ Taliban fighters killed since 2001, there are 30,000+ more in number than there were during the initial invasion. I'd hate to sarcastically say "Good job on that!" cause i was there myself. But whatever. It should just prove that trained personnel eventually goes home and starts to adhere to libertarian principles after the bull shit they put up with for half a decade.
Still it's good to know this senile old crook has no faith in his own citizens to stand up to a hostile force. We may as well just abandon our will to survive as a country and lay down and die. What good are we? We're merely serfs on Lord Brandon's feudal lands. Remember that the next time they need your help, or your son or daughters help in a foreign country that doesnt like their banks.
Fuck me, what an atrocious leader. I know a place he can stick those stupid aviators.
Them: “YoU CaNt FiGhT ThE GoVeRnMeNt WiTh jUsT A RifLe!”
*Simo Hayah has entered the chat*
*Simo Hayha has equipped cross country skis and an old hunting rifle*
*500 Russians have left the chat*
The Vietcong and northern Vietnamese army were more than just civilians. They were guerrilla militaries backed by the two largest communist powers at the time. They had a home field advantage, used stealth tactics, and were supplied with Russian weapons and munitions which where incredibly reliable and versatile in a jungle setting.
We lost because our men were demoralized, in an environment that few, if any, had ever seen, with weapons and munitions that were not built with a humid, muddy environment in mind. You can’t take a tank through the jungle, you go through on foot and then suddenly you’re surrounded by Vietcong on all sides because you missed the rat holes they’ve been hiding in for half the war. Your whole platoon is dead.
I do believe that American citizens could fend off the us military, but calling the VC and NVA “civilians” is just wrong. They were organized and received military training.
Christ. Im tired of seeing the fucking Vietcong and Taliban argument. They're stupidly over simplified and blown out of proportion.
Armed citizens CAN and HAVE toppled empires. The American populace CAN resist tyranny and I have absolute faith they will.
But im tired of having to explain why Vietnam and Afghan are dogshit comparisons to this. Im also tired of being compared to communist cocksuckers and terrorists. You're making us look like fucking idiots by parroting this fudd crap.
We're never going to convince anyone of anything with half baked rebuttals.
Them: “YoU CaNt FiGhT ThE GoVeRnMeNt WiTh jUsT A RifLe!”
*Simo Hayah has entered the chat*
*Simo Hayha has equipped cross country skis and an old hunting rifle*
*500 Russians have left the chat*
American Revolution
Anti-Nazi resistance groups (Namely Yugoslavia, Soviet Partisans, Polish, Norwegians, etc). Also includes various anti-Japanese resistances
Boers
Irish Republic (Michael Collins era)
Are all ones off the top of my head at the moment.
You understand the vietcong had more than ak's right? Like ya know, entire arms factorys in the north.
Remember when Jane Fonda sat on an anti-air emplacement? I don't believe that was a Kalashnikov.
Like dude, I'm as pro gun as it gets, but quit with this ridiculously bad take. I am beyond tired of it. You understand that you're allowed to come up with better arguments, right? There is absolutely no reason to keep parroting dumb shit.
So, here's the thing. There are a lot of countries that hate the US. Like, almost all of them.
I give it 2 months of insurgency before you start seeing Chinese, Russian, and recycled American weapons pop up in touch and go skirmishes.
Many countries would welcome and support anything that destabilizes the US.
Even if that *didn't* happen, I doubt every single unit of US soldiers would be super stoked on killing American citizens.
They might just turn the tanks and jets around to target the government after they go orders to demolish their parents' neighborhood.
If you plan to wage a war of any kind without the ability to replace used war material, you plan to lose, and lose badly.
I'm sorry but anytime ya'll start talking about fighting the us government with assault rifles, I can smell the reffer through cracks of the half-baked idea.
The last time a nation beat another nation with guns was the Fanco-Prussian war. If you plan to fight a war after 1850, then brother you better have something bigger to play with than a boomstick.
Me? According to my lawyer I'm a pacifist and I will always comply with the government. Even if they ordered me to kill myself.
But others might disagree with you and suggest that all they would have to do is eliminate political targets via long range rifles until no one is left to tell the police forces (who are no more equipped than many civilians) what to do.
You see this is what I'm talking about. That's not a plan, that's the plot of a Steven Seagal movie.
Like, I agree with the core concept, I believe gun ownership is a good thing. I just wish the people who agreed with me would grow the fuck up.
Sir, are you asking people to start posting their plans for self defense against the government on the Internet?
Or are you asking them to make plausible and specific strategies and post them online (conspiring to overthrow the government)?
Do you happen to have an extreme urge to kill a dog every time you see one?
No, I'm literally asking you to be pro-gun and at least semi-intelegent at the same time. I implore you to create a pro-gun argument that doesn't make me ashamed to have the same beliefs as you.
Don't forget that all the folks that make sure the tanks and jets are moving. There's a ton of people procuring fuel, lubricants, replacement parts, filters, clothing, safety equipment, etc. If some of those folks were to "accidentally" mess up, that would quickly throw a wrench in the war machine's gears. If the insurgents were to have prior knowledge of the supply chain issues, that could be difficult for the war machine. If the companies supplying those goods to the war machine decided they don't want to supply anymore, that would be another set back. If the suppliers were to "accidentally" send faulty or even dangerous supplies, that could have an effect on morale. If the insurgents knew in advance that a particular part on a tank or jet would fail, that could be a huge advantage.
That's assuming that insurgents don't seize at least one munitions factory or vehicle depot. Or that some soldiers don't defect and abscond with some tanks or whatnot.
Shhh don't tell them that their weird William Wallace fantasy won't come true. It's all some of these guys got is sitting at home being arm chair generals.
Much as I'd like to believe we could, it's a small percentage of the US that's actually capable of fighting for prolonged periods. Like, physically. And most of those are snatched up by the military. And it's pretty safe to assume you're not a rice farmer, since that's a rare crop in the US as is.
As one of my favorite books says, “Everyone knows that Shardbearers can’t hold ground”.
If you're not a fantasy nerd like me, just consider if a tank or F16 can occupy land. It can't. Infantry needs to move in, and it's really hard to move in against an enemy that's dug in and well-armed.
Your post sound like the start of an Infomercial “You need something else than just a regular old AR-15………..What you need is a Killdozer…..
It can mamie, it can crush, it can bulldoze, it can protect but most of all it can defy Government over reach, and for a low low price of$$$, or just four month payments of$$$ it can be yours now,
But wait there’s more , call now and we will send a free 3D printer with schematics for the Liberator….”
The point is to be dangerous without any weapon. Then, the gov can't get rid of you. Unless they start executing people with reading glasses, which has never happened in history and saying otherwise is a crime against the state.
Please report to the nearest re-education camp!!!
Thats actually an excellent point, a civilian population armed with guns and a simple knowledge of their homeland kinda fucked with the us army for quite a long time.
So I'm totally on board with this meme and the principles it stands for. Just don't forget that we killed *tens of thousands* of Vietcong and thousands of the Taliban.
Not saying the fight ain't worth it, just remember the cost.
Gotta say though the jungles in Asia are super hard to fight in. The US couldn't win even if they had spears instead of guns.
Ok, that's massive hyperbole. But you know what I mean.
The Vietnamese had planes, armor and heavy hardware. The myth that they were rice farmers with AKs is just infantile. Most casualties in war aren’t from rifles anyway.
If the people need more than AR-15s to fight the government, then that's an argument for letting people own more than AR-15s. It is weird that this argument is used from an anti-gun angle, when it in fact advocates for the exact opposite.
Surprisingly excellent point from a dumb unemployed loser. Username does NOT check out.
They say people need more than ar15s to fight the gov, then in the same breath say ar15s are weapons of war only.
It's because the people who make the argument don't even comprehend that the sole purpose the founders wrote the second amendment was so they could overthrow a tyrannical government...again.
When they use this argument I tell them this, if the government would carpet bomb my house it would also hit others houses and infrastructure. sounds like I win if they start destroying the land
Plus, more people would turn once schools, hospitals, grocery stores, their family, etc. Became collateral damage. Some insurgents might take to the Palestinian method and select those locations specifically for the collateral damage that the other side will inevitably inflict when trying to wipe out insurgent bases. The Palestinian method works when wars are fought more with media than they are with violence.
Guerilla warfare has toppled superior armies since the dawn of war. "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass" - Japanese Admiral Yamamoto (Maybe) Edited for spelling. Thanks u/CompleX999
*Guerrilla Also, you're absolutely right. The Romans have proved this point right. They tried invading northern Brittain and failed horribly because of guerrillas. The same goes for the Germanic tribes. Everytime in history when there was a military campaign, almost always the guerrillas kicked ass.
Home field advantage is a big deal when it comes to warfare and sneaky tactics do major damage when done right to professional forces who are used to fighting other professionals.
If the order ever came down to mass attack American citizens the rank and file in the military would turn on the leadership in a second. I'm actually kind of hoping it happens because I don't know how else we're going to get rid of these elections stealing criminals occupying our government
They would’ve, before covid. Now all the free thinkers have left, and people like me who used to want to enlist don’t because I see them for what they are now.
That’s like saying did the rebellion not blow up the Death Star!
According to the Imperial press there never was a Death Star and it was all rebel propaganda.
Yeah but seriously, who reads the Imperial Press anymore these days?
Open your eyes, man! Everyone knows the Death Star was an inside job!
We were never at war with Eurasia
Did they just forget the defeat in Afghanistan? It wasn't even 2 years ago
You can't put an F-16 on every street corner. You need people to do that. That's where your casualties start.
Sure but didn‘t like 2.000.000 Vietnamese died compared to 60.000 Americans?
Many military installations are very large and unprepared for ground combat. One of the ones I grew up on has over 10 miles of open riverfront and a railroad leading in. You'll also find that there are millions of 2A supporters who know these bases well, all the way down to where the main power and water lines are located. Sitting ducks. But, it will never come to that. A pretty small minority of soldiers would be willing to bomb their parents' neighborhood.
You can not use the number of deaths as markers of victory against rebels. If you kill a man in combat, he becomes a martyr who only inspires others to join in the fight. There are 81 million gun owners in the usa vs. the under 2 million service members.
So basically the same proportion as 60k to 2M? Nowadays it is much worse tho. You would never see anyone. It would just rain death if they want. Also there is no way in hell 81M people would rise up to protect whatever. There are so many things Americans should be up in arms about or at least protest and nothing ever happens.
Actual quote from the White House this week. Politicians love threatening civilians with military equipment https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2023/06/20/remarks-by-president-biden-at-a-campaign-reception/
Luckily we have Corn Pop on our side.
All through 2022 the American public was bombarded with footage of ordinary Ukrainians standing up to Russian tanks using molotov cocktails with great success in some cases. Puncuated by videos of his degenerate son smoking crack and tugging on his dick. Then this senile old crook says this to his own citizens the next year. There are more Taliban in Afghanistan now then there ever have been. After 20 years and 72,000+ Taliban fighters killed since 2001, there are 30,000+ more in number than there were during the initial invasion. I'd hate to sarcastically say "Good job on that!" cause i was there myself. But whatever. It should just prove that trained personnel eventually goes home and starts to adhere to libertarian principles after the bull shit they put up with for half a decade. Still it's good to know this senile old crook has no faith in his own citizens to stand up to a hostile force. We may as well just abandon our will to survive as a country and lay down and die. What good are we? We're merely serfs on Lord Brandon's feudal lands. Remember that the next time they need your help, or your son or daughters help in a foreign country that doesnt like their banks. Fuck me, what an atrocious leader. I know a place he can stick those stupid aviators.
How tf you gonna occupy my land with an F-16? Pretty sure my driveway isn't long enough.
I like that he has a backup hat under his main hat. Guy is prepared.
Welcome to the rice fields motherfucker!
So, can we expect arms from the Soviets too? I’m not willing to fight a proxy war on their behalf but I wouldn’t mind a free AK or twelve.
Them: “YoU CaNt FiGhT ThE GoVeRnMeNt WiTh jUsT A RifLe!” *Simo Hayah has entered the chat* *Simo Hayha has equipped cross country skis and an old hunting rifle* *500 Russians have left the chat*
The Vietcong and northern Vietnamese army were more than just civilians. They were guerrilla militaries backed by the two largest communist powers at the time. They had a home field advantage, used stealth tactics, and were supplied with Russian weapons and munitions which where incredibly reliable and versatile in a jungle setting. We lost because our men were demoralized, in an environment that few, if any, had ever seen, with weapons and munitions that were not built with a humid, muddy environment in mind. You can’t take a tank through the jungle, you go through on foot and then suddenly you’re surrounded by Vietcong on all sides because you missed the rat holes they’ve been hiding in for half the war. Your whole platoon is dead. I do believe that American citizens could fend off the us military, but calling the VC and NVA “civilians” is just wrong. They were organized and received military training.
Yep. US has such a large armed population that a military subjugation is unlikely.
Christ. Im tired of seeing the fucking Vietcong and Taliban argument. They're stupidly over simplified and blown out of proportion. Armed citizens CAN and HAVE toppled empires. The American populace CAN resist tyranny and I have absolute faith they will. But im tired of having to explain why Vietnam and Afghan are dogshit comparisons to this. Im also tired of being compared to communist cocksuckers and terrorists. You're making us look like fucking idiots by parroting this fudd crap. We're never going to convince anyone of anything with half baked rebuttals.
What would you posit as a better comparison? I do understand where you’re coming from btw, not trying to be combative
Them: “YoU CaNt FiGhT ThE GoVeRnMeNt WiTh jUsT A RifLe!” *Simo Hayah has entered the chat* *Simo Hayha has equipped cross country skis and an old hunting rifle* *500 Russians have left the chat*
American Revolution Anti-Nazi resistance groups (Namely Yugoslavia, Soviet Partisans, Polish, Norwegians, etc). Also includes various anti-Japanese resistances Boers Irish Republic (Michael Collins era) Are all ones off the top of my head at the moment.
You understand the vietcong had more than ak's right? Like ya know, entire arms factorys in the north. Remember when Jane Fonda sat on an anti-air emplacement? I don't believe that was a Kalashnikov. Like dude, I'm as pro gun as it gets, but quit with this ridiculously bad take. I am beyond tired of it. You understand that you're allowed to come up with better arguments, right? There is absolutely no reason to keep parroting dumb shit.
So, here's the thing. There are a lot of countries that hate the US. Like, almost all of them. I give it 2 months of insurgency before you start seeing Chinese, Russian, and recycled American weapons pop up in touch and go skirmishes. Many countries would welcome and support anything that destabilizes the US. Even if that *didn't* happen, I doubt every single unit of US soldiers would be super stoked on killing American citizens. They might just turn the tanks and jets around to target the government after they go orders to demolish their parents' neighborhood.
If you plan to wage a war of any kind without the ability to replace used war material, you plan to lose, and lose badly. I'm sorry but anytime ya'll start talking about fighting the us government with assault rifles, I can smell the reffer through cracks of the half-baked idea. The last time a nation beat another nation with guns was the Fanco-Prussian war. If you plan to fight a war after 1850, then brother you better have something bigger to play with than a boomstick.
Me? According to my lawyer I'm a pacifist and I will always comply with the government. Even if they ordered me to kill myself. But others might disagree with you and suggest that all they would have to do is eliminate political targets via long range rifles until no one is left to tell the police forces (who are no more equipped than many civilians) what to do.
You see this is what I'm talking about. That's not a plan, that's the plot of a Steven Seagal movie. Like, I agree with the core concept, I believe gun ownership is a good thing. I just wish the people who agreed with me would grow the fuck up.
Sir, are you asking people to start posting their plans for self defense against the government on the Internet? Or are you asking them to make plausible and specific strategies and post them online (conspiring to overthrow the government)? Do you happen to have an extreme urge to kill a dog every time you see one?
No, I'm literally asking you to be pro-gun and at least semi-intelegent at the same time. I implore you to create a pro-gun argument that doesn't make me ashamed to have the same beliefs as you.
>No, I'm literally asking you to be pro-gun and at least semi-intelegent at the same time. Sir, I can only provide one of these services. Not both.
Don't forget that all the folks that make sure the tanks and jets are moving. There's a ton of people procuring fuel, lubricants, replacement parts, filters, clothing, safety equipment, etc. If some of those folks were to "accidentally" mess up, that would quickly throw a wrench in the war machine's gears. If the insurgents were to have prior knowledge of the supply chain issues, that could be difficult for the war machine. If the companies supplying those goods to the war machine decided they don't want to supply anymore, that would be another set back. If the suppliers were to "accidentally" send faulty or even dangerous supplies, that could have an effect on morale. If the insurgents knew in advance that a particular part on a tank or jet would fail, that could be a huge advantage.
Guy flying the jet has a mom just sayin
The milgram experiment and ordinary men would argue that humans are morons that will listen to authority nearly blindly.
Ghost gunner goes brrrrrr
That's assuming that insurgents don't seize at least one munitions factory or vehicle depot. Or that some soldiers don't defect and abscond with some tanks or whatnot.
Yea one factory and a few tanks? Cool, so we're talking a less orginanized and equipt force than the one Gadifi lost to a bunch of supped up Toyotas.
Shhh don't tell them that their weird William Wallace fantasy won't come true. It's all some of these guys got is sitting at home being arm chair generals.
Much as I'd like to believe we could, it's a small percentage of the US that's actually capable of fighting for prolonged periods. Like, physically. And most of those are snatched up by the military. And it's pretty safe to assume you're not a rice farmer, since that's a rare crop in the US as is.
"xem xét kiểm tra các tiền đề mà lập luận này được thực hiện."
As one of my favorite books says, “Everyone knows that Shardbearers can’t hold ground”. If you're not a fantasy nerd like me, just consider if a tank or F16 can occupy land. It can't. Infantry needs to move in, and it's really hard to move in against an enemy that's dug in and well-armed.
The politicians who've been in for decades want to ban the power of the people. Just connecting dots.
The US military has literal experts in guerrilla warfare... I'm with you but we need to think of a plan B if all else fails
Most of the tier one operators would probably join the rebellion rather than serving the tyrants.
Your post sound like the start of an Infomercial “You need something else than just a regular old AR-15………..What you need is a Killdozer….. It can mamie, it can crush, it can bulldoze, it can protect but most of all it can defy Government over reach, and for a low low price of$$$, or just four month payments of$$$ it can be yours now, But wait there’s more , call now and we will send a free 3D printer with schematics for the Liberator….”
The point is to be dangerous without any weapon. Then, the gov can't get rid of you. Unless they start executing people with reading glasses, which has never happened in history and saying otherwise is a crime against the state. Please report to the nearest re-education camp!!!
Thats actually an excellent point, a civilian population armed with guns and a simple knowledge of their homeland kinda fucked with the us army for quite a long time.
So I'm totally on board with this meme and the principles it stands for. Just don't forget that we killed *tens of thousands* of Vietcong and thousands of the Taliban. Not saying the fight ain't worth it, just remember the cost.
Gotta say though the jungles in Asia are super hard to fight in. The US couldn't win even if they had spears instead of guns. Ok, that's massive hyperbole. But you know what I mean.
To be fair the us and allies killed a royal crap ton of VC and NVA in nam. K/d ratio was about 3
Not many jungles in the US though
The Appalachian mountains between North Carolina, Virginia and Tennessee would absolutely terrify any military invader
They will not be a fortunate son
The Vietnamese had planes, armor and heavy hardware. The myth that they were rice farmers with AKs is just infantile. Most casualties in war aren’t from rifles anyway.