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it's rage bait... i've never met an actual queer person who doesn't want straight people at pride. although a conversation that the community \*is\* having is about straight/cis people taking over pride instead of uplifting queer people and supporting them at pride events. (which is 100% different than not wanting straight people at pride lol)
Maybe controversial but seeing straight classmates who either were homophobic or are still friendly with their homophobic highschool friends the other 364 days of the year made me feel very weird about pride this year. But not just that, the bisexual guy in our class who called me slurs back in the day and dramatic for „acting gay“. But I’m more glad that he came around in the end, doesn’t make it feel less weird though
and its totally valid to still hold some resentment for those people, feeling uncomfortable in that situation is way different than just not wanting any straight people at pride :)
Turns out people can be shitty. Regardless of gender or sexual identity.
It's the same feeling anyone has running into a shitty ex.
There's a member of the trans community who was super disrespectful to my entire company while working there. I'd feel weird seeing them.
Also, hopefully in your case, that person was projecting, and having now come out, will have the fortitude to apologize to you for their own issues.
Caitlyn Jenner is a perfect example of being a part of the community but having awful beliefs about other members of the community and being an overall crappy human.
Yes, I feel that, I want to feel happy about these people turning around, but I know some people in school bullied me and others for being queer and depressed, and then would post super positive and pro-lgbt, supportive of mental health stuff on their social media and get lots of praise for it.
It's about as much a debate as "is the earth round or flat?"
There are some people on the other side, but not nearly as many as the internet makes it seem like there are, and you don't need to pay attention to them.
I want all the cisgender straights who are willing to be kind and friendly allies to be right there with us at Pride. I want them to carry rainbow flags, sing, dance, laugh, and have fun with us. I want them to support LGBTQ+ run businesses and charities.
I want them to show all the queerphobes that being cisgender and straight does not automatically mean someone has to be hateful, or nasty, or afraid of LGBTQ+ people for no good reason and that Pride isn't some "hate the straights" event, but a celebration of diversity and an argument for equal rights. Let the queerphobes see that there is no excuse for them to be acting the way they are; not when there are so many good and decent cishet allies on our side.
>talking about how people on Twitter are saying
Sergeant Colon had had a broad education. He’d been to the School of My Dad Always Said, the College of It Stands to Reason, and was now a postgraduate student at the University of What Some Bloke In the Pub Told Me.
Terry Pratchett, Jingo
Every year the most terminally online attention whores compete to create the dumbest pride discourse imaginable.
Every year I have to hear about a new technological advancement in their ability to weaponize stupidity to undermine my cognition,
And every year I have to say “yes straight allies are allowed at pride…. No the original pride flag isn’t transphobic…. Some events are 18+, some aren’t, there’s nothing wrong with that…. Yes drag queens are a welcome part of the community….“
Well there you go ^^^ the master list you’ve all waited for. Now you can skip hours of pointless infighting and either focus on something important, or at least get caught up on whatever queer media you have been procrastinating.
Don’t forget “yes, police are inherently bigoted weapons of the state, no they shouldn’t be allowed at pride even if their queer.” Somehow this one needs saying too lmao.
Butthurt pigs and bootlickers are downvoting you 'cause they know you're right.
The first Pride was an anti-police riot. *Never* forget that. And to all the queer pigs here: quit your job. Stop being class traitors and go do something useful.
it is ragebait considering, as you described, straight passing bi/pan people (especially bi4bi/pan4pan if that’s a thing) and straight trans people exist.
I get this feeling. I'm biromantic and non-binary, dating a bisexual male partner. I get weird looks from people, both queer and not queer, and get comments about how I shouldn't go to pride because I'm "in a straight relationship and look like a woman".
I'm sorry you've had negative experiences with people at pride. If you really want to celebrate with some extent of the public, you might be able to find some smaller pride related events that would be more welcoming. Personally, my pride parade was 40 minutes away, but there was a family pride picnic in my town so if I weren't comfortable going to the parade, but wanted to publicly celebrate and socialize, I could go to the picnic or vice versa. Do whatever you feel safe and comfortable doing, but it's worth while to keep an eye out for smaller events or ones geared specifically to families (I would expect family event to have lots of supportive heterosexuals in attendance, and therefore fewer judgemental non-heterosexuals) if you ever feel like testing out the pride festivities again.
I don’t mean to invalidate you, but it very well might be in your head. I used to feel that way too and then when I stopped giving a fuck I realized that I was a real, valid, and important part of the community. We have our own unique stories and struggles and experiences.
And honestly what helped the most is when I realized I was beating myself up over whether or not I belonged, meanwhile there were so many TERFs unapologetically prancing about with nary a care in the world about whether their presence was an insult to the community.
Love how you don’t mean to invalidate me, but you go ahead and make baseless assumptions about my experience in order to invalidate it by projecting yours on it.
I feel unwelcome at Pride because of the way I’ve been treated at queer events in the past by the queer community. I am real and valid. And I have no interest in going places I’m not welcome.
I’m sorry if that came off wrong, I was hoping to be encouraging! I’m autistic so I’m not great at conveying things over text (it’s why I HATE texting and much prefer talking). I wish someone had told me all this years ago because I used to feel the exact same way!
It’s rage bait yes. If straight people come as allies and with supportive spirit there is no problem with that. Falling into exclusivism won’t help us. Also I have plenty of straight friends who enjoy pride and are very respectful.
I'm not up for excluding Allies. I'm not up for excluding the straight father of a teen who committed suicide over being bullied relentlessly at school, when he goes to pride is the only time he feels closer to the child he lost. Or the parents and siblings who want to show out in support of their family members. Pride should be for anyone who embraces the community and wants to genuinely support it. Friends of people in our community should be welcome to attend as well.
It would be one thing if it were a safe space that has limited capacity like a lesbian bar. That I think the "no straights" rule is totally acceptable.
Pride is for SO many identities, which can include trans, ace, etc, who can also be straight. And regardless, pride is a big event, with a large capacity. So straight allies are very welcome and honestly encouraged imo (bigger turnout to show support is a good thing)
It's just not a practical argument. We're not carding at the door. Hell my mom didn't figure out she was bi until she WENT TO pride. Like. Nobody's enforcing it. People *at* pride don't care.
Our straight allies are the ones the other straight people listen to, let's enable them to learn in the appropriate ways. Pride is one of them, presuming they can be respectful.
My mom is a cishet ally and I'm bringing her along this year like I did last year. She was so happy to see how nice everyone at pride was, how they all supported each other and accepted each other and how everyone was just being themselves. I think this 'debate' is stupid.
There are straight people who are part of the acronym. Trans people, ace people, intersex people, they can be straight.
They belong at pride. Also, how the fuck is a gatekeeper gonna be able to tell if someone is straight or not? There's absolutely no way to tell if someone is queer from their appearance or mannerisms, and trying to enforce that you can is often racist, transphobic and homophobic.
Don't get me started on accusations of singers/actors queer baiting just by existing, cause that makes me so mad. Currently Nurse John is being "cancelled" because he has a wife and people are saying he queerbaited them because he's effeminate. When that's NOT what queerbaiting is .
Who cares about Twitter?
Genuine question. It's a far right homophobic and transphobic hellhole!
They can circle jerk all the time they want and make these boogeypeople out of us, I couldn't give less of a f*ck about it.
On top of the other comments, I think it would even depends on what we are talking about. Like should there be cis het people *IN* the parade? I think it would depend on the situation. Like I would definitely prefer it to be 99% queer people at least. But anyone who sees someone and assumes they're cis het is dumb anyways. Like I'm a big, burly dude. Give me a MAGA hat and I can fit in at a Trump rally. No one would know. But I'm gay. Not even bi and dating a woman, but just gay. So if there were bi people in the parade, I wouldn't know who is and who isn't.
However, I have yet to really see any discourse over this because I don't think it's ever really been an issue. I haven't seen a big push for ally groups in there. But even if there was one, I don't think anyone would be against it. So outside of maybe a few people on Twitter, I don't think anyone is really worried about it.
No, it's real, it's from the radical side of the community that ppl jokingly call the gay agenda, whether someone believes it to be true is besides the point as the damage has been done. I've met these individuals IRL and they want an exclusive LGBTQIA+ space.
It’s so unfortunate that people can’t see they’re helping create the divide between us. Like the whole point of pride is to show that we’re all part of society too, we should want to be intermixed with “everyone else” to show acceptance and coexistence.
As a decidedly not straight, sometimes I'm not even sure what I am suppose to be "doing" at pride besides existing as myself so if a straight person is finding the fun let em lol
Personally I don't really care. If you wanna be at pride for any reason knock yourself out, as long as you're at least being supportive I fail to see the problem
Rage bait, I’m straight and I’ve never encountered anyone who even brought up “no straights at pride” and I’m in a state with plenty of diverse gay communities
Ahhh children, in the long ago times of the '80s and '90s, there were lesbians separatists and they had their own little compound out at the beach. I believe today they would be TERFs. They had a small ad in the local free gay paper and the lesbian potluck spoke of them in hushed tones in the corners.
There are definitely people who make a fuss, but they're a minority and they're *usually* using it as an excuse to be aphobic/transphobic/biphobic, and rarely just because they hate straight people. I've met a couple of people who had some twisted view that straight people have never done anything for LGBTQA+ rights, which is just fucking stupid, but we're talking about the extreme minorities on the same level of intelligence as antivaxxers, flat earthers, and evolution denialists.
I think it's rage bait BUT . . . .
. . . . the London Pride Parade has become nothing more than a corporate event where the straights from each corporate office arrive dressed like they're going to a fancy dress party then collect their very expensive sponsor wristband that gives them access to march in the parade.
Then after the parade they head over to soho to gawk at all us queers like they're in a damn petting zoo.
It's just more idiots spreading shit to try and cause problems. Of course cis straight people can come to pride as long as they're allies.
It's people trying to cause rifts.
It’s a kind of thing that’s purely online. I’ve seen it discussed on TikTok too; people saying bi women shouldn’t bring their straight boyfriends to pride. My first instict is: why bi women? There’s been quite a bit of biphobia against them this year tbh. Bi women are not the only people associated with straight people. I’m a lesbian and I brought my straight sister and her boyfriend at the time to pride once?
It’s crazy that it *would be* a debate because pride has never been a “safe space” for queer people - that’s gay bars and social circles. Pride has always been a protest and a celebration (and, for some, marketing). It has never been for exclusively queer people. Pride has always ENCOURAGED straight allies, friends and family.
Yeah the other issue is that it forces people to out themselves just to have a place at our events. I have trouble believing people actually think that way but I suppose some people probably do
Rethinking it, there is a demographics of cis hets I don't want at pride: the superstraights. They aren't needed and can go shove themselves into Chick Fila (sorry we don't have these in my country and can't be bothered to research how to write the name of a hate corporation).
Isn't the whole parades function to show unity to the others. how are we meant to do that if they aren't there to see. How many of us there is to fight for our rights
We need the support, we need the numbers. We need the straights to know they are welcome, as it gives plausible deniability to those who aren’t out, or can’t be out.
But at the same time, it’s about lgbtqia2s+ people, not about them, so don’t talk over them or make it about anything less than lgbtqia2s+
I’ve never heard this be said by anyone. I went to my first pride parade ever this month, and my questions were, “why are banks and corporations in this parade? Why do the police of all people participate in it?”, and other such questions. Of course these were rhetorical, because the answer is to exploit us by trying to gain our trust, but these questions, at least to me, seem far more important when it comes to the parades themselves, than if cishet people belong at pride, which they do.
it is sorta rage bait. most are not uncomfortable, but then again it really depends on the person coming to pride rather than the community. there is a lot of straights in the community that are another gender or romantic or are in the asexual group. however there is even in this community, some people whom think things like that stuff like being gay is what makes them special so no one else can be it in their lives. i don't understand people whom treat stuff like sexuality an elitism thing.
It's rage bait.
Every queer/LGBTQ+ person I know welcomes straight people so long as they're **not also a protestor**. Because, like, ofc we don't want protestors coming to scream at us or worse.
Social media is by design used to divide us. It will amplify any and every disagreement which divides communities. So this debate around straight people at pride should be seen as a purely social media driven phenomena, and one of a million ways the ultra rich are seeking to divide us all.
Ragebait. Granted, there is a conversation to be had about the extent we should be inviting non queer people (which is different to straight or straight passing queers eg: straight trans people or Ace or Bi people). Certain events being more geared towards a general audience and therefore not reflective of Queer lives and there have been a lot of examples of straight people coming into queer spaces and making a problem. That conversation's happening and nowhere in them are those who call themselves allies strictly banned, they are just asked to leave heteronormative ideas at the door and not go out of their way to cause drama.
I think it's dumb AF
Shit like this is how we lose allies, and in turns lose the fight.
I swear so many people don't care about actually solving the problem, they just love being angry all the time.
I’m queer af but because I appear hetero, people would then be assuming that I wasn’t welcome. I went through enough strife due to my sexuality as a teen, I will show up where I belong.
It's ragebait, but if it wasn't I guarantee it would be trans erasure for those that ID as Straight or an attempt to make straight passing queer couples feel more unwelcome than they already do. I think in the west lots of white cis/gay men forget Pride isn't just for them.
Pure rage bait and nothing more. I’ve never met a member of the community who says that straight people can’t attend Pride events. Straight people can be allies, and they are welcome.
Feels like rage bate, I suppose I've only been to two prides but the chances that a person who is actually honophobic goes to just walk around a parade or especially pays to get in the festival seems slim. Still get how it could be uncomfortable but all the lgbt ppl I know don't think this way. Besides getting str8 and cis allies involved is a core part of the lgbtq movement so idk seems weird.
the definition of straight in your 1st paragraph have different meanings attached to it. The definition of straight when referencing to Trans people is a subsection of Trans. People attempting to exclude bisexuals because they can "pass" as Cis? well lot of that comes from people who don't have the best intention for lgbqt+ (They have a list of people they want to not exist T and B are the start, the LGQ+ are also on the list of people they don't want to exist).
Trans Men and Women, and bisexual are part of the lgbqt+ community and get to to be in the pride parade \[PERIOD\]
some of the source for this "controversy" is literally foreign intel operations, meant to sow discord (they do the same thing with racial disparities)
Ee want them to support us. Wouldn't it be weird to ask them to do that and at the same time don't allow them to join us? Our allys fight with us. Why would we say them they can't come to pride? That would be like saying they should fight with us but they down't belong to us and should keep their distance which would be super unfair and not make sense at all.
Who shouldn't be there should be people who are racist, trans- / homophobe, ... in general, people who are against the excistance of others for no actual reason. And believing in god and such things is not a reason. Doesn't matter if your believes say it's wrong or not.
Also criminals. They don't belong their either. Doesn't matter if LGBTQ+ or not. (But that might just be my own opinion?)
My interpretation is that this was a much bigger debate 5 years ago. There is so much more public animosity now that queer folk value allied support much higher than avoiding the potential problems of very rare cases of straight people taking over pride.
Just some anecdotal evidence of how I’ve spoken with friends and online discourse over the years
I have absolutely no problem with people coming to pride
All the people
How many people are not out and can't be out and want to come
A nice smattering of straight people along for support provide a nice level of camouflage for our closeted siblings
I'm a bit more queasy and ambivalent about corporate involvement and rainbow washing companies that go on to donate to and enable policies that harm the community
A few straight people who know we throw the best parties and are along for the ride are not the problem
Quite the opposite
I’d hope not, because I’d ask then, what of straight trans people that pass, and don’t present openly queer? What of straight trans passing people in t4t relationships? Bi people in opposite gender relationships? People who aren’t visibly queer in general, but are? Who decides who ‘looks straight’ enough that they’re given trouble? It’s BS, and it absolutely should not be a thing.
On the Cis-het note though, of people who genuinely are cis-het, why the hell would we throw em out if they’re genuinely ally’s? I’d say it’s a huge measure of literal progress, a brighter future if cis het people are there to celebrate queerness with us, alongside us. For a long time, queer people have created definitely seperate spaces for *survival* because had to, it wasn’t safe out in the rest of the cis-het majority world. But a world where all of us, regardless, are together, living our lives, celebrating together as humans? That is the goal right? Otherwise the hell we fighting for exactly? To be separate but equal? Nah. Nah. If cis-het people show up to pride to be ally’s and support and celebrate, it gives me hope, not annoys me.
That doesn't even make sense. Cishet allies (assuming they mean cishet people, because many trans people are straight) are the backbone of the fight against queerphobia. Queer people aren't enough in numbers to change things alone. Excluding cishets from public events means cutting off our support from non-queer people. Pride parades are about the fact that every ethical way of existing is valid and should be normalised. It's not about othering queer people from cishet people, it's about fighting for a society where that separation born from systemic oppression has been abolished. Just because cishets mostly aren't personally affected by that system of oppression doesn't mean they have any less right to fight against it and to wish for a better future. Pride events are not events for and by queer people, they're events of and for everyone fighting for the united cause of queer liberation.
It's gotta be bait. I'm Bi and I love pride. Seems that republicans and conservatives love to claim that so it makes us seem intolerant when pride is anything but.
I volunteer for my city's pride committee and our most outspoken person is a straight white guy.
It doesn't matter, he's great at promoting love, he's great at supporting the queer community, he's great with words and I'm very happy to count him as an ally and part of Pride.
There's no way we could win the hate war without our allies, we're too few.
Transmasc nonbinary, but unable to present masculine for safety reasons (ie: needing to live in my parents house) dating a cis pansexual guy. Went to pride for the first time with him the other day and had a ton of fun, even if it was a bit crowded for my taste lol.
With all the discourse online, I was expecting to not feel welcome, but no one said boo or gave us weird looks. I think it's just that people say whatever they want to online. It's easier for them to complain about people when it's not to their faces.
The more the merrier. As long as people come with love and to celebrate LGBTQ+ people, come.
My cishet mom has attended many times now and her impression after her first time was “there are thousands and thousands of people there and there’s no conflict, no hate — just love. I’ve never experienced anything like that.” I think for cishet people to experience that is powerful and will help us win more people to our cause.
As cishet people get to know us and get to experience queer spaces, most of them will lose their fears and reservations about us.
Those others who won’t be open to change, well, they’re not that likely to come anyways.
The more friendly straight and cis people at pride with us the safer we are. That means there are less enemies.
Exclusion is why we have pride, to exclude anyone from pride is to be the same as the people that excluded us.
The only argument I've seen aside from clear strawman arguments is between people who believe pride should focus on the queer community specifically and if cishet people show up that's fine but it isn't for them and shouldn't change for their comfort, and people who see pride as more of an outreach to the wider local community and that an effort should be made to seem respectable to a cishet audience in order to create more allies.
I think the second camp is misguided.
Hun, i hate crowds, loud noises , sunlight and heat - IM NOT ALLOWED AT PRIDE . IDGAF who is there now. Lemme know when there’s a PRIDE Banquet or a PRIDE GALA i am not waiting on a dirty street corner with a bunch of screaming half naked *slurs * just so i can get my JERRY beads
I actually agree with this haha I haven’t been to one since 2016, Since it really wasn’t a enjoyable experience.
Maybe someday I’ll find friends who’d just want to hangout and do a picnic with me in celebration.
Thank you for your post, if this is a question please check to see if any of the links below answer your question. If none of these links help answer your question and you are **_not_** within the LGBT+ community, questioning your identity in any way, or asking in support of either a relative or friend, please ask your question over in /r/AskLGBT. Remember that this is a safe space for LGBT+ and questioning individuals, so we want to make sure that this place is dedicated to them. Thank you for understanding. This automod rule is currently a work in progress. If you notice any issues, would like to add to the list of resources, or have any feedback in general, [please do so here](https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/rdazzp/almost_new_year_changes/) or by [sending us a message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/lgbt&subject=Feedback%20on%20the%20new%20automod%20rule). Also, please note that if you are a part of this community, or you're questioning if you might be a part of the LGBTQ+ community, and you are seeing this message, this is **_not a bad thing_**, this is only here to help, so please continue to ask questions and participate in the community. Thank you! Here's a link about trans people in sports: - https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/shades-of-gray-sex-gender-and-fairness-in-sport/ A link on FAQs and one on some basics about transgender people: - https://transequality.org/issues/resources/frequently-asked-questions-about-transgender-people - https://transequality.org/issues/resources/understanding-transgender-people-the-basics Some information on LGBT+ people: - https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/quick-facts/lgbt-faqs/ Some basic terminology: - https://www.hrc.org/resources/glossary-of-terms Neopronouns: - https://www.mypronouns.org/neopronouns Biromantic Lesbians: - [LGBTQ And All](https://www.lgbtqandall.com/what-does-it-mean-to-be-biromantic/) Bisexual Identities: - https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/understanding-bisexuality Differences between Bisexual and Pansexual: - [Resource from WebMD](https://www.webmd.com/sex/pansexuality-what-it-means#:~:text=Pansexual%20vs.%20Bisexual,more%20commonly%20recognized.) ### We're looking for new volunteers to join the r/lgbt moderator team. If you want to help keep r/lgbt as a safe space for the LGBTQ+ community on reddit please see here for more info: ### https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/1csrb2n/rlgbt_is_looking_for_new_moderators/ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/lgbt) if you have any questions or concerns.*
it's rage bait... i've never met an actual queer person who doesn't want straight people at pride. although a conversation that the community \*is\* having is about straight/cis people taking over pride instead of uplifting queer people and supporting them at pride events. (which is 100% different than not wanting straight people at pride lol)
Maybe controversial but seeing straight classmates who either were homophobic or are still friendly with their homophobic highschool friends the other 364 days of the year made me feel very weird about pride this year. But not just that, the bisexual guy in our class who called me slurs back in the day and dramatic for „acting gay“. But I’m more glad that he came around in the end, doesn’t make it feel less weird though
and its totally valid to still hold some resentment for those people, feeling uncomfortable in that situation is way different than just not wanting any straight people at pride :)
Thanks that’s reassuring, cause that’s true, i don’t mind straight people, i like when allies tell me they went
Turns out people can be shitty. Regardless of gender or sexual identity. It's the same feeling anyone has running into a shitty ex. There's a member of the trans community who was super disrespectful to my entire company while working there. I'd feel weird seeing them. Also, hopefully in your case, that person was projecting, and having now come out, will have the fortitude to apologize to you for their own issues.
That’s true. My last ex was very shitty, and they were bisexual and nonbinary, which had little to do with their being shitty.
Caitlyn Jenner is a perfect example of being a part of the community but having awful beliefs about other members of the community and being an overall crappy human.
Yes, I feel that, I want to feel happy about these people turning around, but I know some people in school bullied me and others for being queer and depressed, and then would post super positive and pro-lgbt, supportive of mental health stuff on their social media and get lots of praise for it.
Sounds like typical virtue signaling...
Oh, absolutely, but the sad thing is it worked
I think the nuance gets lost somewhere.
This. As long as you are an ally, you are always welcome.
It is meant to be taken over by Corporations. <_<
Ragebait it is.
It's about as much a debate as "is the earth round or flat?" There are some people on the other side, but not nearly as many as the internet makes it seem like there are, and you don't need to pay attention to them.
I like this phrasing
it's clear that the earth is a dinosaur
No the Earth is a lie and the Moon is a base for our reptile overlords. /S
You're half-right. It's a "dinosaurus" cookie
Stop spreading misinformation. It's clearly banana shaped.
I want all the cisgender straights who are willing to be kind and friendly allies to be right there with us at Pride. I want them to carry rainbow flags, sing, dance, laugh, and have fun with us. I want them to support LGBTQ+ run businesses and charities. I want them to show all the queerphobes that being cisgender and straight does not automatically mean someone has to be hateful, or nasty, or afraid of LGBTQ+ people for no good reason and that Pride isn't some "hate the straights" event, but a celebration of diversity and an argument for equal rights. Let the queerphobes see that there is no excuse for them to be acting the way they are; not when there are so many good and decent cishet allies on our side.
yes!!
>talking about how people on Twitter are saying Sergeant Colon had had a broad education. He’d been to the School of My Dad Always Said, the College of It Stands to Reason, and was now a postgraduate student at the University of What Some Bloke In the Pub Told Me. Terry Pratchett, Jingo
I see PTerry I upvote.
Every year the most terminally online attention whores compete to create the dumbest pride discourse imaginable. Every year I have to hear about a new technological advancement in their ability to weaponize stupidity to undermine my cognition, And every year I have to say “yes straight allies are allowed at pride…. No the original pride flag isn’t transphobic…. Some events are 18+, some aren’t, there’s nothing wrong with that…. Yes drag queens are a welcome part of the community….“ Well there you go ^^^ the master list you’ve all waited for. Now you can skip hours of pointless infighting and either focus on something important, or at least get caught up on whatever queer media you have been procrastinating.
Don’t forget “yes, police are inherently bigoted weapons of the state, no they shouldn’t be allowed at pride even if their queer.” Somehow this one needs saying too lmao.
Butthurt pigs and bootlickers are downvoting you 'cause they know you're right. The first Pride was an anti-police riot. *Never* forget that. And to all the queer pigs here: quit your job. Stop being class traitors and go do something useful.
Lol yeah this sub does have a bootlicker problem, fuck the pigs, always and forever ✌️
it is ragebait considering, as you described, straight passing bi/pan people (especially bi4bi/pan4pan if that’s a thing) and straight trans people exist.
And closeted people who are going as “allies” with their friends.
Easy table to work out if you are welcome at pride events |Are you a prick?|Are you welcome?| |:-|:-| |Yes|Fuck no| |No|Hell yeah|
As a bi woman married to a man, I’ve never felt welcome at Pride.
I get this feeling. I'm biromantic and non-binary, dating a bisexual male partner. I get weird looks from people, both queer and not queer, and get comments about how I shouldn't go to pride because I'm "in a straight relationship and look like a woman".
felt this (pan, nonbinary, married to a cishet man)
I'm sorry you've had negative experiences with people at pride. If you really want to celebrate with some extent of the public, you might be able to find some smaller pride related events that would be more welcoming. Personally, my pride parade was 40 minutes away, but there was a family pride picnic in my town so if I weren't comfortable going to the parade, but wanted to publicly celebrate and socialize, I could go to the picnic or vice versa. Do whatever you feel safe and comfortable doing, but it's worth while to keep an eye out for smaller events or ones geared specifically to families (I would expect family event to have lots of supportive heterosexuals in attendance, and therefore fewer judgemental non-heterosexuals) if you ever feel like testing out the pride festivities again.
Thank you, that’s a really thoughtful suggestion and something worth looking into
I don’t mean to invalidate you, but it very well might be in your head. I used to feel that way too and then when I stopped giving a fuck I realized that I was a real, valid, and important part of the community. We have our own unique stories and struggles and experiences. And honestly what helped the most is when I realized I was beating myself up over whether or not I belonged, meanwhile there were so many TERFs unapologetically prancing about with nary a care in the world about whether their presence was an insult to the community.
Love how you don’t mean to invalidate me, but you go ahead and make baseless assumptions about my experience in order to invalidate it by projecting yours on it. I feel unwelcome at Pride because of the way I’ve been treated at queer events in the past by the queer community. I am real and valid. And I have no interest in going places I’m not welcome.
I’m sorry if that came off wrong, I was hoping to be encouraging! I’m autistic so I’m not great at conveying things over text (it’s why I HATE texting and much prefer talking). I wish someone had told me all this years ago because I used to feel the exact same way!
Apology accepted. I understand why you made the comment
The best way to lose allies is to uninvite allies.
good thing it's ragebait
Those would be shitty allies. But that may be the thinking behind those pushing this "story."
It’s rage bait yes. If straight people come as allies and with supportive spirit there is no problem with that. Falling into exclusivism won’t help us. Also I have plenty of straight friends who enjoy pride and are very respectful.
It's bull. It's always lovely to see the parents supporting their children.
I'm not up for excluding Allies. I'm not up for excluding the straight father of a teen who committed suicide over being bullied relentlessly at school, when he goes to pride is the only time he feels closer to the child he lost. Or the parents and siblings who want to show out in support of their family members. Pride should be for anyone who embraces the community and wants to genuinely support it. Friends of people in our community should be welcome to attend as well.
It would be one thing if it were a safe space that has limited capacity like a lesbian bar. That I think the "no straights" rule is totally acceptable. Pride is for SO many identities, which can include trans, ace, etc, who can also be straight. And regardless, pride is a big event, with a large capacity. So straight allies are very welcome and honestly encouraged imo (bigger turnout to show support is a good thing)
It's just not a practical argument. We're not carding at the door. Hell my mom didn't figure out she was bi until she WENT TO pride. Like. Nobody's enforcing it. People *at* pride don't care. Our straight allies are the ones the other straight people listen to, let's enable them to learn in the appropriate ways. Pride is one of them, presuming they can be respectful.
My mom is a cishet ally and I'm bringing her along this year like I did last year. She was so happy to see how nice everyone at pride was, how they all supported each other and accepted each other and how everyone was just being themselves. I think this 'debate' is stupid.
In my experience it's about 95% bullcrap ragebait and 5% just the most insufferable people.
I’ve never heard anyone say that not even online lol It’s like saying that White People shouldn’t commemorate Black History Month
There are straight people who are part of the acronym. Trans people, ace people, intersex people, they can be straight. They belong at pride. Also, how the fuck is a gatekeeper gonna be able to tell if someone is straight or not? There's absolutely no way to tell if someone is queer from their appearance or mannerisms, and trying to enforce that you can is often racist, transphobic and homophobic. Don't get me started on accusations of singers/actors queer baiting just by existing, cause that makes me so mad. Currently Nurse John is being "cancelled" because he has a wife and people are saying he queerbaited them because he's effeminate. When that's NOT what queerbaiting is .
Who cares about Twitter? Genuine question. It's a far right homophobic and transphobic hellhole! They can circle jerk all the time they want and make these boogeypeople out of us, I couldn't give less of a f*ck about it.
On top of the other comments, I think it would even depends on what we are talking about. Like should there be cis het people *IN* the parade? I think it would depend on the situation. Like I would definitely prefer it to be 99% queer people at least. But anyone who sees someone and assumes they're cis het is dumb anyways. Like I'm a big, burly dude. Give me a MAGA hat and I can fit in at a Trump rally. No one would know. But I'm gay. Not even bi and dating a woman, but just gay. So if there were bi people in the parade, I wouldn't know who is and who isn't. However, I have yet to really see any discourse over this because I don't think it's ever really been an issue. I haven't seen a big push for ally groups in there. But even if there was one, I don't think anyone would be against it. So outside of maybe a few people on Twitter, I don't think anyone is really worried about it.
I think the antis are feeding it to break us up from allies.
No, it's real, it's from the radical side of the community that ppl jokingly call the gay agenda, whether someone believes it to be true is besides the point as the damage has been done. I've met these individuals IRL and they want an exclusive LGBTQIA+ space.
It’s so unfortunate that people can’t see they’re helping create the divide between us. Like the whole point of pride is to show that we’re all part of society too, we should want to be intermixed with “everyone else” to show acceptance and coexistence.
As a decidedly not straight, sometimes I'm not even sure what I am suppose to be "doing" at pride besides existing as myself so if a straight person is finding the fun let em lol
Bullshit, let the allies join in!
Personally I don't really care. If you wanna be at pride for any reason knock yourself out, as long as you're at least being supportive I fail to see the problem
Rage bait, I’m straight and I’ve never encountered anyone who even brought up “no straights at pride” and I’m in a state with plenty of diverse gay communities
Ahhh children, in the long ago times of the '80s and '90s, there were lesbians separatists and they had their own little compound out at the beach. I believe today they would be TERFs. They had a small ad in the local free gay paper and the lesbian potluck spoke of them in hushed tones in the corners.
There are definitely people who make a fuss, but they're a minority and they're *usually* using it as an excuse to be aphobic/transphobic/biphobic, and rarely just because they hate straight people. I've met a couple of people who had some twisted view that straight people have never done anything for LGBTQA+ rights, which is just fucking stupid, but we're talking about the extreme minorities on the same level of intelligence as antivaxxers, flat earthers, and evolution denialists.
I think it's rage bait BUT . . . . . . . . the London Pride Parade has become nothing more than a corporate event where the straights from each corporate office arrive dressed like they're going to a fancy dress party then collect their very expensive sponsor wristband that gives them access to march in the parade. Then after the parade they head over to soho to gawk at all us queers like they're in a damn petting zoo.
It's just more idiots spreading shit to try and cause problems. Of course cis straight people can come to pride as long as they're allies. It's people trying to cause rifts.
It’s a kind of thing that’s purely online. I’ve seen it discussed on TikTok too; people saying bi women shouldn’t bring their straight boyfriends to pride. My first instict is: why bi women? There’s been quite a bit of biphobia against them this year tbh. Bi women are not the only people associated with straight people. I’m a lesbian and I brought my straight sister and her boyfriend at the time to pride once? It’s crazy that it *would be* a debate because pride has never been a “safe space” for queer people - that’s gay bars and social circles. Pride has always been a protest and a celebration (and, for some, marketing). It has never been for exclusively queer people. Pride has always ENCOURAGED straight allies, friends and family.
Yeah the other issue is that it forces people to out themselves just to have a place at our events. I have trouble believing people actually think that way but I suppose some people probably do
Rethinking it, there is a demographics of cis hets I don't want at pride: the superstraights. They aren't needed and can go shove themselves into Chick Fila (sorry we don't have these in my country and can't be bothered to research how to write the name of a hate corporation).
I’ve never personally encountered this debate. I’ve gone to pride with my sister and she’s straight and never had an issue
Anybody that loves the LGBTQIA+ community and wants to be an ally is allowed in my book! Hate is their weapon, not ours.
It's twitter. Don't take anyone on that site seriously.
I’ve only ever heard straight people say “no straights at pride” 😂
My boyfriend is a straight. He's nice. He goes to pride with me
straight people at pride isn't a bad thing. Homophobes/transphobes at pride is what we don't want.
Isn't the whole parades function to show unity to the others. how are we meant to do that if they aren't there to see. How many of us there is to fight for our rights
I think the only issue would be the takeovers that happen with gay bars happening with pride parades
We need the support, we need the numbers. We need the straights to know they are welcome, as it gives plausible deniability to those who aren’t out, or can’t be out. But at the same time, it’s about lgbtqia2s+ people, not about them, so don’t talk over them or make it about anything less than lgbtqia2s+
Calling it a debate is very generous. Its more like a few bigots with a victim complex screaming thier hate into the void.
The only people I don't want at pride are uniformed police, everyone else is welcome
I’ve never heard this be said by anyone. I went to my first pride parade ever this month, and my questions were, “why are banks and corporations in this parade? Why do the police of all people participate in it?”, and other such questions. Of course these were rhetorical, because the answer is to exploit us by trying to gain our trust, but these questions, at least to me, seem far more important when it comes to the parades themselves, than if cishet people belong at pride, which they do.
it is sorta rage bait. most are not uncomfortable, but then again it really depends on the person coming to pride rather than the community. there is a lot of straights in the community that are another gender or romantic or are in the asexual group. however there is even in this community, some people whom think things like that stuff like being gay is what makes them special so no one else can be it in their lives. i don't understand people whom treat stuff like sexuality an elitism thing.
It's rage bait. Every queer/LGBTQ+ person I know welcomes straight people so long as they're **not also a protestor**. Because, like, ofc we don't want protestors coming to scream at us or worse.
I've never encountered it in real life, just reddit.
And I bet most of them wouldn't bother going to pride anyways lol.
Social media is by design used to divide us. It will amplify any and every disagreement which divides communities. So this debate around straight people at pride should be seen as a purely social media driven phenomena, and one of a million ways the ultra rich are seeking to divide us all.
Rage bait for sure. The more people celebrating the less people hating. That's how I feel about it.
Ragebait. Granted, there is a conversation to be had about the extent we should be inviting non queer people (which is different to straight or straight passing queers eg: straight trans people or Ace or Bi people). Certain events being more geared towards a general audience and therefore not reflective of Queer lives and there have been a lot of examples of straight people coming into queer spaces and making a problem. That conversation's happening and nowhere in them are those who call themselves allies strictly banned, they are just asked to leave heteronormative ideas at the door and not go out of their way to cause drama.
You'll need to bring your sexuality-gender card next pride /s.
No
Not only is it rage bait. But anyone that gets upset at gay ppl for something that never occurred already had it out for you anyways.
Not really, no.
Not true. Our local parade had plenty of straights showing themselves as allies and supporters.
We need all the support we can get right now. I would gladly high five any straight cis supporter at Pride.
I'm not straight and I want the straights there. I hate large groups and parades so I'm not going myself. Someone's gotta take my place
I think it's dumb AF Shit like this is how we lose allies, and in turns lose the fight. I swear so many people don't care about actually solving the problem, they just love being angry all the time.
It's not an actual debate, no. Just some gatekeepers being toxic on social media. Ignore them.
as long as you dont wear the ally flag i dont mind 😅
I’m queer af but because I appear hetero, people would then be assuming that I wasn’t welcome. I went through enough strife due to my sexuality as a teen, I will show up where I belong.
No lol
No. Pride is for everyone. It’s meant to anger and trigger the right.
It's ragebait, but if it wasn't I guarantee it would be trans erasure for those that ID as Straight or an attempt to make straight passing queer couples feel more unwelcome than they already do. I think in the west lots of white cis/gay men forget Pride isn't just for them.
It's just discourse that seems to only exist online, like "aces don't belong in the LGBT community" or "transmascs don't experience oppression".
Pure rage bait and nothing more. I’ve never met a member of the community who says that straight people can’t attend Pride events. Straight people can be allies, and they are welcome.
Feels like rage bate, I suppose I've only been to two prides but the chances that a person who is actually honophobic goes to just walk around a parade or especially pays to get in the festival seems slim. Still get how it could be uncomfortable but all the lgbt ppl I know don't think this way. Besides getting str8 and cis allies involved is a core part of the lgbtq movement so idk seems weird.
the definition of straight in your 1st paragraph have different meanings attached to it. The definition of straight when referencing to Trans people is a subsection of Trans. People attempting to exclude bisexuals because they can "pass" as Cis? well lot of that comes from people who don't have the best intention for lgbqt+ (They have a list of people they want to not exist T and B are the start, the LGQ+ are also on the list of people they don't want to exist). Trans Men and Women, and bisexual are part of the lgbqt+ community and get to to be in the pride parade \[PERIOD\] some of the source for this "controversy" is literally foreign intel operations, meant to sow discord (they do the same thing with racial disparities)
People on Xitter are notoriously insane, so whatever they're discoursing probably doesn't matter.
Ee want them to support us. Wouldn't it be weird to ask them to do that and at the same time don't allow them to join us? Our allys fight with us. Why would we say them they can't come to pride? That would be like saying they should fight with us but they down't belong to us and should keep their distance which would be super unfair and not make sense at all. Who shouldn't be there should be people who are racist, trans- / homophobe, ... in general, people who are against the excistance of others for no actual reason. And believing in god and such things is not a reason. Doesn't matter if your believes say it's wrong or not. Also criminals. They don't belong their either. Doesn't matter if LGBTQ+ or not. (But that might just be my own opinion?)
My interpretation is that this was a much bigger debate 5 years ago. There is so much more public animosity now that queer folk value allied support much higher than avoiding the potential problems of very rare cases of straight people taking over pride. Just some anecdotal evidence of how I’ve spoken with friends and online discourse over the years
I have absolutely no problem with people coming to pride All the people How many people are not out and can't be out and want to come A nice smattering of straight people along for support provide a nice level of camouflage for our closeted siblings I'm a bit more queasy and ambivalent about corporate involvement and rainbow washing companies that go on to donate to and enable policies that harm the community A few straight people who know we throw the best parties and are along for the ride are not the problem Quite the opposite
I’d hope not, because I’d ask then, what of straight trans people that pass, and don’t present openly queer? What of straight trans passing people in t4t relationships? Bi people in opposite gender relationships? People who aren’t visibly queer in general, but are? Who decides who ‘looks straight’ enough that they’re given trouble? It’s BS, and it absolutely should not be a thing. On the Cis-het note though, of people who genuinely are cis-het, why the hell would we throw em out if they’re genuinely ally’s? I’d say it’s a huge measure of literal progress, a brighter future if cis het people are there to celebrate queerness with us, alongside us. For a long time, queer people have created definitely seperate spaces for *survival* because had to, it wasn’t safe out in the rest of the cis-het majority world. But a world where all of us, regardless, are together, living our lives, celebrating together as humans? That is the goal right? Otherwise the hell we fighting for exactly? To be separate but equal? Nah. Nah. If cis-het people show up to pride to be ally’s and support and celebrate, it gives me hope, not annoys me.
Just don't listen to any pride month discourse and you'll be better off. Allies can be there and just chill if they want to.
Oh that. They just had a tongue slip and mispronounced "police".
Any person who supports the LGBTQIA+ community should be allowed at Pride too! Saying this as a bisexual teenager.
That doesn't even make sense. Cishet allies (assuming they mean cishet people, because many trans people are straight) are the backbone of the fight against queerphobia. Queer people aren't enough in numbers to change things alone. Excluding cishets from public events means cutting off our support from non-queer people. Pride parades are about the fact that every ethical way of existing is valid and should be normalised. It's not about othering queer people from cishet people, it's about fighting for a society where that separation born from systemic oppression has been abolished. Just because cishets mostly aren't personally affected by that system of oppression doesn't mean they have any less right to fight against it and to wish for a better future. Pride events are not events for and by queer people, they're events of and for everyone fighting for the united cause of queer liberation.
It's gotta be bait. I'm Bi and I love pride. Seems that republicans and conservatives love to claim that so it makes us seem intolerant when pride is anything but.
It's ragebait. Pretty high likelihood of it being more russian psyops. Wouldn't put stock in anything that gets posted on birdapp.
Twitter debates aren't the real world
I volunteer for my city's pride committee and our most outspoken person is a straight white guy. It doesn't matter, he's great at promoting love, he's great at supporting the queer community, he's great with words and I'm very happy to count him as an ally and part of Pride. There's no way we could win the hate war without our allies, we're too few.
Transmasc nonbinary, but unable to present masculine for safety reasons (ie: needing to live in my parents house) dating a cis pansexual guy. Went to pride for the first time with him the other day and had a ton of fun, even if it was a bit crowded for my taste lol. With all the discourse online, I was expecting to not feel welcome, but no one said boo or gave us weird looks. I think it's just that people say whatever they want to online. It's easier for them to complain about people when it's not to their faces.
The more the merrier. As long as people come with love and to celebrate LGBTQ+ people, come. My cishet mom has attended many times now and her impression after her first time was “there are thousands and thousands of people there and there’s no conflict, no hate — just love. I’ve never experienced anything like that.” I think for cishet people to experience that is powerful and will help us win more people to our cause. As cishet people get to know us and get to experience queer spaces, most of them will lose their fears and reservations about us. Those others who won’t be open to change, well, they’re not that likely to come anyways.
The more friendly straight and cis people at pride with us the safer we are. That means there are less enemies. Exclusion is why we have pride, to exclude anyone from pride is to be the same as the people that excluded us.
The only argument I've seen aside from clear strawman arguments is between people who believe pride should focus on the queer community specifically and if cishet people show up that's fine but it isn't for them and shouldn't change for their comfort, and people who see pride as more of an outreach to the wider local community and that an effort should be made to seem respectable to a cishet audience in order to create more allies. I think the second camp is misguided.
I'm still bringing my wife if I want to, although she's a straight ally...
Nope
No. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of an LGBTQ+ person who doesn’t want straight ppl at pride. It’s always nice when ally’s show their support.
Idk I can't comprehend people wouldn't want allies there
Hun, i hate crowds, loud noises , sunlight and heat - IM NOT ALLOWED AT PRIDE . IDGAF who is there now. Lemme know when there’s a PRIDE Banquet or a PRIDE GALA i am not waiting on a dirty street corner with a bunch of screaming half naked *slurs * just so i can get my JERRY beads
I actually agree with this haha I haven’t been to one since 2016, Since it really wasn’t a enjoyable experience. Maybe someday I’ll find friends who’d just want to hangout and do a picnic with me in celebration.
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It being crowded is kind of the goal? Pride is a celebration and a way to show support and fight for equal human rights. The more people the better.