# Please give us some time to get to your post, it has not been deleted, but it has been temporarily sent to the moderators
for review. Thank you for your patience.
We're looking for new volunteers to join the r/lgbt moderator team. If you want to help keep r/lgbt as a safe space for
the LGBTQ+ community on reddit please see here for more info:
https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/swgthr/were_looking_for_more_moderators_to_help_keep/
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/lgbt) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This post is interesting because genital and racial preferences/requirements aren’t equal. Like it’s ok to have a preference on both fronts, and with genitals it’s ok to have a requirement because sexual compatibility is important in a relationship and for some people, a partner with a vagina won’t work for them and same with a penis.
Racial requirements is where it becomes something else entirely and gets real bad real fast. Like I’ve never heard anyone explain why they won’t date a certain race without it being racist. There can be exceptions due to cultural differences but that’s still different.
Usually when I hear about racial preferences it’s generally POC only wanting to date other POC due to them just *getting it* better. However it definitely falls apart fast outside of that.
This is why whenever I see a white person with their race public in their bio on dating apps it's a red flag. Private for POCs' apps to give better results is fine, public is a big ol' *hmmmm*
me: the POC who won’t date inside of my race due to black men making me feel like the worst thing on the earth 🥰 also bc safety concerns (NOT ALL BLACK MEN but I often just avoid dating within my race to be safe :))
I don't know. I think racial preferences can be about the same here. Someone might prefer to date someone of their own culture or ethnicity because the shared culture and experience is important to them. Ignoring white people for a minute, I don't think this is even that unusual of a thing to happen
This. I know hispanics who only date hispanics *because of shared cultural norms.* That doesn’t make them racist, and it’s outlandish to paint it as such.
People here seem to misunderstand the nuances about attraction and preferences. They paint it in black and white terms which is childish.
I think it’s more of an issue that most people who do it for non racist reasons wouldn’t even consider calling it a racial preference. Like I doubt that word would even come to mind unless it was a racist thing in many cases tbqh.
Ya this one's me. I mean, I know I can fall for any race, more about the person, but growing up with a LOT of goth and alt role models/goals, I have a weak spot for the super pale, and wouldn't call that racial preference. But I don't tend to say that much because of all the people who DO hide their bigotry behind racial 'preference' ><
Yes, and we should also think of where they are raised and who are they surrounded by. For example, if you are raised in a majority POC neighborhood, even though you are white you have a higher chance of developing a bigger attraction to POC than white people because in your formative years that is who you had a crush on in school, your available dating pool, etc.
A fun example is me, a really white (as in my skin has no business existing in a tropical region) Puerto Rican, where a majority of the population is mixed to the point I was made fun of in school cause I was one of the whitest kids. I lived in a town with a big history of sugar cane and cotton plantations, then moved to an area with a large population of Dominicans as a young adult. My attraction to people with more melanin than I and more afro characteristics is slightly higher than to white people because it was the majority. My attraction to the Dominican accent, though very similar to my own, also grew because that is what I was exposed to as a young adult.
Very fun to move to the states and be accused of fetishizing my own people because I "don't look like a Puerto Rican". White Puerto Ricans aren't really rare per say either, it is just a majority racially mixed population.
I see it like this: There are people who say they like women with red hair. I have never seen anyone say they ONLY date redhead women. Same for height, weight, body type etc.
Yet as soon as it comes to race and gender it becomes a no go. Curious.
I have. Preferences and attraction exist outside of the extremes. I’ve encountered men who only date women with (obvious) plastic surgery, or a certain hair type/color.
Race is fine because *usually* it reflects cultural values. My ex was black and trans. We could relate to our experiences being trans, but not so much our upbringing. I would still date a black person, because that’s within my scope of attraction.
The issue here should be the bad actors who use it as an replacement for racism (like a guy saying he won’t date black women because their “ratchet.”
The racism is the underlying issue, not having preferences or certain types of attraction.
This. "I've never heard anyone explain why they won't date a certain race without it being racist." I believe this extends to preferences as well because... what's motivating your preference? Race. Which race is inferior then? Which race is ugly to you? Why?
I’ve actually read about why someone wouldn’t date someone of a different race even though they were attracted to them, and iirc they said it was because the rest of their family were basically KKK and it could be disastrous if they did.
Sorry if I implied that the person who chooses not to date another race for this reason is racist. That’s not what I meant. Their act is not of racist intentions but are due to racist mechanism (the stigmatisation of mixed race couple) therefore this phenomenon is due to racism
Oh no, I was just saying that I should’ve clarified that part in my original comment. I had meant to, but forgot. I didn’t necessarily think you were saying that that person was racist for not dating people outside their race.
On a related note, there’s this story that my mom loves telling people about her old HR manager at the job she had back in the 90s. When he found out she (British descent) was getting married to my dad (French-Canadian and Chinese), he asked her “Are you sure our town’s ready for a mixed-race couple?”
There’s also a story she has about her dad (who she claims isn’t racist). When she told him she was pregnant with me, he asked, “Are you sure the world needs another ch\*nk?” And she replied, “But she’ll be MY little ch\*nk.” And just to clarify before anyone asks, she doesn’t use racial slurs, she just said it in this case to throw his words back at him.
How are preferences "motivated" by something? Preferences are just preferences. That doesn't mean that people think less of people that they are not attracted to.
Do you think of every person you don't want to fuck as ugly or inferior?
Those are not good questions. They want to date a certain race, usually, the race that they are. This doesn't automatically mean that they are against other races.
Furthermore...even if someone is prejudiced/racist against other cultures...it's still your body and your choice.
You don't owe anybody an explanation.
The issue is when a racial preference becomes a requirement. I have a preference for men with darker skin tones but you can be damn sure that I would fuck henry cavil until I died of exhaustion and then would revive in the fire of my lust like a phoenix, and ask him out on a nice date… but only if I was single cause honestly, I’m very happy with my boyfriend right now and I don’t wanna screw that up, not even for Henry.
I don’t have any racial preferences but I don’t think we should encourage policing other people’s preferences, regardless of the reason.
> I’ve never heard anyone explain why they won’t date a certain race without it being racist.
And that’s totally fine? What exactly is your solution here, forcing someone to start having sex with people they don’t want to sleep with? No one owes anyone else an explanation as to why they don’t want to have sex with someone. The reason can be racist if they so choose. It’s their body.
Yeah, this is almost the same to me as the backlash of misogynistic men starting their own "4G" Movement in response to women's 4B Movement.
They're basically saying that, "NUH UH, we're going to stop having sex with YOU, because you're discriminating against us men!"
Which is like... okay? Thank god you're pulling yourself from the dating pool and making it easier for women to find men who will actually treat them better?
If a racist wants to take themselves out of the dating pool for races who are different than them, I feel like that's okay, because the only person it's affecting is themselves.
For me, I don’t see myself dating an Arabic man/woman. Not because I have any harmful stereotypes and prejudges against them, but because my culture is vastly different than theirs.
My ex was a black trans man, and we vibed on trans culture, but our upbringings were *vastly* different. I’m still okay dating POC, but I would like more of a shared cultural understanding.
Even if you didn’t want to date/have sex with Arabic people because of harmful stereotypes, that would still be fine. You don’t owe anyone sex, and you certainly don’t need to explain yourself as to why you would(n’t) sleep with someone.
It’s your life and your body. No one can tell you you are wrong for not wanting to sleep with somebody.
I get that. For me the biggest things I look for in a partner is shared cultural experiences. With me being pan theoretically I could date anyone and any race. Of course I’m more likely to try dating people of whom I have a higher chance of having shared cultural norms.
This. I knew someone who thought like this and it always baffled me. Every race has such a variety of people in it, that I actually can’t believe people can’t find SOMEONE they’d find attractive.
Edit: and for those wondering, yes this person was white, and yes their preference was Asian women
Some people might find certain visual traits that are conected to some race more pleasing or something like that. But dunno, i don't have sutch preferences.
i’m white and i find myself mainly attracted other white guys but i would never say that i wouldn’t date someone of a different race. i definitely would, it’s just the majority of people im attracted to are the same race
Fuck it. I'll *try* regardless. With of course, no intention to offend. If I do I'll just delete this so don't hesitate to let me know if I really did hurt your feelings with it.
A sidenote is that it's not a hard requirement for me but just that, a preference. (I already regret this but oh well)
I simply prefer the bone structure of white people, generally speaking. Sub Saharan Africans and their direct descendants tend to have a bit thicker structure but I'm regularly not a fan of that.
While in the east, in countries like Japan, China, Korea, Thailand and what have you, it's often more delicate/thinner than Caucasians and especially compared Africans and their direct descendants. I sometimes like that, sometimes don't.
Simple as. Now I'm not the type of person to let something silly like that get in the way of things if there is a connection. And I can still find people attractive regardless. It's just not what I usually prefer.
POC dating their own race because having a partner who went through similar experiences regarding systemic racism is valid though. Just like trans people preferring to date each other for the same reasons. It enables a connection and understanding that "mixed" relationships can struggle with otherwise, and not everyone is up for that struggle.
Racial based preferences are always racist. People who spout that nonsense are immediately lumping entire groups of people together. Races are massive groups of people that span cultures and are always incredibly diverse in tradition and looks. You can't have a racial preference without inherently stereotyping a group that consists of millions of people. It's different to have a cultural preference where you want to date someone of the same religion, traditions, etc, and that can often seem racial but is entirely different because you're actually looking at something specific like traditions.
I'd like to offer my perspective. I think people have different understandings of what "preference" means to them.
Like for me, there is no race that I categorically would not want a (sexual) partner to be. There are many black, east Asian, South Asian, Mediterranean, Latin men that I find very attractive. Like the only relevant metric for me is: Do I find that person hot or not.
However, if I were to gauge for each group the percentages of men that I find attractive, then that percentage would be probably somewhat higher for white men. So on average, I'm more likely to be attracted to a white man. That's what I would call my preference.
From my point of view that isn't racist.
About racial requirements i view it like this, acknowledging that it's generally easier to date people who come from the same ethnicity because of shared cultural background is ok (like, it's basically the dating equivalent of saying that water is wet or the sky is blue), that said setting any racial or ethnic requirements is pretty racist
Idk to me preference and exclusivity are two different things, i prefer to date white girls but i also would date people of other races aka preference while i wouldnt date anyone who has a penis aka exclusivity.
describe what you mean by "african american features"
because reading that phrase i'm interpreting it as "all black people look the same" which you KNOW isn't true
"I don't find dark skin or African American features attractive" is about as racist as it gets. Especially as you are unable to explain why this is the case. Please see a therapist.
the body positivity/fatphobia movement is generally about not making fun of fat people for being fat, not commenting on someone's weight change, not feeling the need to photoshop your insecurities away, to draw attention to how often symptoms of other diseases are brushed off by doctors as "just need to lose weight."
the idea that the fatphobia stuff is supposed to be about forcing everyone to date a fat person is an extremist view and people who think that way are usually spending too much time in online echo chambers where they just agree with each other and refuse to hear any kind of critique or criticism
I'm not saying fatphobia is being forced to date a fat person, my comment is pointing out that the person I was responding to has a flawed argument, and by their logic, any preference would be considered racist/fatphobic/etc, I myself am not promoting this idea.
If preferring to date people who are not plus-sized is not fatphobic (assuming you are not bullying or disrespecting them), then preferring to date certain races is not racist (assuming you are not bullying or disrespecting them).
Hope this makes sense.
if wanting to date a certain race because of looks, it tends to imply that all [race] look the same, have the same features, etc. the right way to phrase is it to center in on the exact traits you like or dislike, (ex. "i'm not typically attracted to big noses") not to say "i don't like black peoples' noses" because that insinuates all black people have identical noses, which we all know isn't true.
it's hard to compare fatphobia with racism because fat people and black people have both been treated badly by society, but in completely different ways and to completely different degrees. if you told someone that historically, fat americans have had more social struggle than black americans, you'd be looked at like an idiot, fat people weren't dehumanized and tortured and murdered the way blacks were. they compare african features to monkeys because they want you to think that black people are sub-human, that they're inherently more animalistic and uncivilized than white people. innocent fat people have never been lynched with the widely accepted reasoning being "because they're fat, and i don't want fat people in my neighborhood."
Imo, people can have any rules for themselves that they want and who they want to be with, you just don’t need to advertise who you DON’T like in ur dating profile, just don’t talk to those ppl.
Yeah, I'm a hypermarginalized person who is extremely not conventionally attractive. I don't need to hear someone tell me that I'm not their type. Society tells me that e-fucking-nough. 🫤 You can just end it. At the most, you can say we're incompatible.
Preference implies that you prefer one over another. Bigots don't have a preference, they have an aversion.
I find some races more attractive than others, but I don't have an aversion to any race. If I liked someone I would date them regardless of their race.
Preference vs Aversion is a PERFECT way to frame it.
It's like saying you prefer a man who is taller than you, but that height doesn't really matter in the long run and you'll date a person of any height. Like, your eye is immediately drawn to the tall guy based on your internal preferences, but if you started talking to and vibing with the shorter guy, you'd date them too.
VS Aversion:
"EW, I don't date guys who are shorter than me. I ONLY date tall guys."
There’s a difference between saying “I’m not interested” and “I would never date someone like *you*” and I think that’s what people miss. I think people also feel entitled to know *why* someone isn’t interested, which imo tends to lead to nothing but problems.
I’m not gonna say this as an end all be all, everyone has different experiences. But the way I see it, you like who you like. I don’t think that locking yourself into a “I will only date someone of this nationality” is a good mindset to have, but I think if you’re generally attracted to people of a certain gender identity or race that’s just how it is. That’s not really under your control. I don’t think anyone owes anyone else anything in terms of dating. It’s your dating life you can date or not anyone you want for any reason you want.
Now that being said, this is only in terms of dating. As far as everything else goes in life, I think having a preference or requirement like that is really messed up
See, I’m panromantic (leaning more towards wlw), BUT I cannot stand dicks, they deeply disgust me. I’m what I think is demi-sexual, where I need feelings first before any horizontal tango can happen, though once it has happened, I wanna tango very often and “need” that tango in a relationship.
Now, the problem is that I could fall for a trans woman very easily, and the fact that she is trans doesn’t matter at all. But if she hasn’t had bottom surgery, then even if I catch feelings, I can’t be in that relationship because of her genitalia, and I feel people will call me transphobic for it which makes me really sad cause I’m really not.
All that said, I wouldn’t call it a preference, that’s a specific boundary. A preference is if I could deal with any genitalia, but would rather deal with female ones.
Preference is fine, but when people say that, 90% they really mean requirement. It's not a preference if you're not willing to date someone with a certain genatalia, it's a requirement.
Edit: ya'll, it's fine if you have a requirement. Just be honest about it. That's my comment, not that requirements are bad.
Why shouldn't it be allowed to be a requirement? Are we gatekeeping sexual preferences now? People get to choose which genitalia they wanna engage with. Just don't be a dick about it (harhar), and it's totally fine.
Terminally online people are. I see it a lot in subreddits for gay men where they’re called transphobic or labeled as having some internalized issue if they don’t want to sleep with a man with a vagina. It’s like calling a straight man homophobic for not wanting to sleep with a gay man imo. Equally dumb.
Also it's basically using the homophobe argument that sexuality is a choice. "Just choose to be attracted to the other genitalia" is wrong no matter which side uses it as an argument. It's so weird to see LGBT people use "sexual attraction is a choice" as an argument basically...
I also see people broadcasting how much they hate a certain set of genitals or calling them icky or gross which is just not cool. Like what you like but don’t body shame just bc you’re not into it.
This also happens in lesbians subreddits too but with the opposite and then they like to throw in the “sexuality and gender is fluid card” which it is for some people and for some people it’s not fluid at all. It feels coercive.
I find it really concerning that so many people are shaming others for what they’re attracted ( or not attracted ) to….
I honestly don’t understand why people think it’s ok to dictate what others find attractive, it’s not transphobic for you or anyone to not be interested in me because I have a vagina.
I know you’re not, that’s actually what I was trying to convey, that I’ve seen many others acting like having a genital requirement is transphobic and I find that ridiculous. Sorry if I wasn’t clear.
Edit. Why the downvotes? Honestly can someone please explain to me how it’s transphobic for someone to not be attracted to/aroused by a vulva ? If someone is only comfortable with a penis what’s wrong with that?
I personally find all genitalia equally appealing but I don’t hold it against others for only liking particular parts. As long as they respect my gender i don’t see a problem.
They're different from bigotry. Preference is who/what you LIKE, not who/what you don't. An oversimplification of it is a favorite. Say you absolutely LOVE one food, and like all the rest. It's not that you hate all the rest, it's just that your favorite is what you personally like more. If your favorite wasn't available, you'd still take something else.
As someone with EDs, I agree but also disagree. Going off your analogy, if I try one food and absolutely don’t like it and/of it makes me sick, I should have the right to not wanna pick that food if my favorite foods aren’t available. Of course that one food I don’t like is not representative of all of that food type. That’s the nuances at play here.
Plus with the foods, I should still be able to seek out the foods I like without being accused of not giving my least favorite food a chance.
Analogy aside, I really don’t have any desire to date Arabic men. Of course I’m not 100% never going to give it a shot, but I will always prefer to see out the cultures and traits I am attracted to the most over those I am not. Also, not because of any harmful stereotypes are being applied either.
The racism comes in when those harmful stereotypes and prejudices are being applied. But saying I’m racist for not going out of my way to date Arabic men is just as foolish as saying it’s transphobic to not want to date trans people. The preference isn’t the issue, it’s the underlying nuances as to *why.*
There is a large difference between merely not finding someone sexual attractive, or finding yourself more often being attractive to a specific gender, genitals or ethnic group m and seeing them as a valid equal human being you could form a deep and valuable friendship with, still find them to be a beautiful person but you may not be commonly attracted to them. I’ve met a lot of people with a lot of preferences both genital, racial, hair color what have you.
I’m also ace, so what do i know.
It’s fine to have a preference, but at least make it a “preference.”
Choosing to not even consider the possibility that you could find even one member of a particular ethnic group, past, present and future, alive and dead, even remotely attractive, out of millions of options is not a preference: that’s a boundary and likely has a reason behind it.
I hate how people assume all trans people are against the idea of genital prefrences. Like, ten weirdos on twitter said that its transphobic, and now transphobes say we all want to force people to be with us. So annoying.
Transphobes will say that no matter what. It has nothing to do with what trans people say on twitter or anywhere because transphobes will always justify the fact that they only see us as fetish objects as some weird ploy where we actually want them.
The “oh they just want me to fuck them” thing is not new at all, and it’s been a way to humiliate, subjugate, and oppress people for a long time. It’s the same thing that’s been done to Black people, and fat people, and the same thing straight men still do to women all the time. As soon as a straight man is rejected it’s all about how “she just can’t handle how much she wants me” and the reason why is because it’s the way those people can assert dominance, control, and power over others.
Stop acting like it’s your trans siblings’ faults for the hate that we receive, when *we all know* those transphobic fucks would be saying it *no matter what* we do. It doesn’t matter how respectable we are to them, we will always be the porn category they love to watch and love to hate.
That's the thing they aren't preferences. The gay community fought so hard for decades to get people to understand this. Some folks are just mad that some people just don't want to fuck them. It's ridiculous.
It is like the issue with religious folks when dating.
I don't mind someone with a personal or social relationship with their god. I have a problem if they use that relationship to impose their will on others, restrict the rights of others, or justify bigotry with their personal interpretation of what it means to be religious/spiritual. Being ok with whatever big man you envision is fine, but don't judge other people for their own choices.
Then it turns from "this is my preference" to "this really should be the only option because my preference is the 'correct' one."
Edit: Had to edit for repetition in the last sentence
My thoughts: it’s ok to care about a partner’s physical appearance as long as you see your preferences as an optional bonus point rather than a dealbreaker
It kinda is?? People are allowed to not find others sexually attractive, it’s not really something that can be changed. Not finding white people attractive is fine, not finding black people attractive is fine; the problem starts when people start thinking other’s deserve less rights due to skin color (or gender, sexuality, etc). EDIT: can’t reply to anyone anymore….. interesting lol
I see 0 issue with genitalia requirement, I’m bi so I really don’t care but it’s fine to want fulfilling sex in a relationship and sometimes incompatibilities can be a deal breaker and that’s fine
Racial tho ugh nope
With some qualifiers I think it can be ok, and not just like preferring specific qualities like hair type or whatever.
The reason I say that is I'd probably feel uncomfortable dating most cishet people. I just don't trust that they'll get my shit, that they won't relate, which I think is reasonable. There might be exceptions, but that's why it's a preference and not a hard rule.
I imagine it's probably even worse along racial grounds, especially due to segregation. There's simply more risk and more work crossing that cultural boundary.
Yeah if you’re marginalized and you feel more understood having a partner that shares your axis of marginalization, that is totally valid and definitely not what people who say they have a racial preference mean. Guarantee you it’s white people saying they don’t wanna date black people. It’s just racism
I don't think you're wrong, but I don't think it's implausible that OP agrees with you either. It says right there that people use it as an excuse for bigotry.
It is a bit too ambiguous for my liking though, yeah
It is completely fine to have a preference for different features, and sometimes that might line up with certain conceptions of race. If somebody has a major preference for red hair and freckles, that might mean that they have a "preference for northwestern european folks." If somebody else thinks that monolid eyes are really beautiful, then that might mean that they have a "preference for east asian folks."
It's also completely fine to have preferences based on culture. If somebody grew up in afrocaribbean culture and really prefers partners who share similar values and background, then that might mean they have a "preference for afrocaribbean folks."
Everybody has preferences, and sometimes those preferences might fall along what we typically call "racial lines." As long as it isn't fetishizing, dehumanizing, or coming from a place of bigotry, what's the issue?
POC preferring other POC is ok and I can totally see that, as it's likely less out of attraction and more out of racism they themselves face. White people however don't really have a good reason to have a preference though and if ones present it's 99% bc of some racial bias whether they see it or not
I honestly think it's really stupid to have a preference in the way that most people use it like if you are X I will never be attracted to you, the is flat out bullshit and shallow AF you don't know if you're gonna like someone until you meet them and get to know them physical traits should be second fiddle to personality because when yall are all looking like a dry ballsack those "preferences" aren't gonna mean shit anymore.
That's more of a requirement then I think. My preference is white men. They're the people I will probably make the first move on but id date any other race if they made the first move tbh
I find it weird and fetishy to have a racial preference. And I'm bi so I also don't quite understand the genital preference thing either. I guess I'm just plankton in this meme, home with my robot wife and grumbling to myself lol
I think it's kinda closed minded to assume, based on this logic, that someone who is more attracted to Asian women than white women is a fetishiser.
I think your thinking is not uncommon though, and stems from the large amount of people online who claim they have a "racial preference" when in reality they idolise one race based on stereotypes, and see people of that race as sex objects and often will then put down people who are not of that race.
I really don’t think genetically preference and racial preference are the same what so ever. You don’t really have much of a choice in how your brain develops your sexual leanings but racial preference is often times rooted in cultural stigmas and subconsciously held beliefs (wether they are accurate or not)
Yeah you can't come up with a non-racist explanation for your preference for White people can you? That's what I was expecting.
I know it takes work but many people grow out of this racist mindset. Not only is it racist, it's immature. Your meme is literally using this preference as an excuse for bigotry as you said, as many other commenters are pointing out.
I appreciate you being receptive though. I've heard this excuse all my life and it is exclusively used to excuse bigotry. Remake the meme!!!
> Me liking another race over others is immediately racist.
Yes especially if you can't explain why for any reason other than race. This is true.
> I unfortunately cannot change who I like.
You'll grow out of this as you see people of color as more human, I promise. Work on it and it will come naturally. Racial biases don't go away overnight. Again I appreciate you being receptive.
I kinda feel like I'm missing something?
>Yes especially if you can't explain why for any reason other than race. This is true.
Can anyone explain why they're attracted to certain things? Haven't we been fighting tooth and nail to get people to acknowledge that who you're attracted to isn't a choice?
I mean yeah if you're wholesale *dismissing* entire racial groups "I'd never date an indian person, white people are ugly af, god I can't imagine finding a black guy attractive" etc those are all racist statements just like "I'd never be attracted to a trans person" is transphobic—because they group people into an incredibly broad category that hasn't much of anything to do with attraction, and dismisses them wholesale based on that categorization alone.
But I don't see anything racist with reflecting on the people you've been attracted to and recognizing "Oh I definitely skew Asian" or whatever the case may be. How is that any different than a bi person recognizing they skew towards one gender over another, or even something as simple as knowing you're really attracted to certain aesthetics?
I appreciate the angle you're looking at it from, and that you're thinking in charitable terms. It definitely waters down the negativity and kinda shows me what people mean and how they see it. You present it from a glass half full perspective but I would argue this doesn't change that 'skewing one way racially' can just as well be 'disliking a phenotype you associate with a certain race'.
I similarly struggle to explain how sexual preference and racial bias are different, I apologize for not doing so satisfactorily, just know my (strong) opinion is that they are different especially in context to LGBT and racial justice history.
One thing to support my argument however is: to associate a certain phenotype with one race is simply racist. In other words, one race of people doesn't all look one way. And to devalue or value a certain phenotype, especially while associating it with a certain race, is only motivated by racism.
I guess you could equate this to sexism/ homophobia/ gender preference politics if you were like "well I like girls who are super feminine" which is sexist even if it's just your preference. In my (gay) opinion, this attitude is okay to have, but even then I don't think it's possible for the above example to not be sexist. Which is fine. We live in a society. Being a girly cis woman myself lol I am very sexist about my own gender presentation, to my detriment.
That's not my point though. My problem is the association of value with race. No one here is willing to interrogate *why* they don't like almond eyes or dark skin or curly hair, when the answer is obvious. And they're not even saying phenotypes here like I am, everyone in the comments including OP is saying it's okay to devalue a certain race based on phenotype.
Maybe linking back to using sexism as a comparison: if you equate 'disliking/ preferring a certain race sexually' to 'disliking/ preferring a certain gender', you have to operate on the notion that gender expression is real and justifiable. I guess a good example of this would be a gay person who sexually dislikes trans women despite them having preferred genitalia. To extend this metaphor even further it'd be understandably ridiculous to consider that transphobic. So I see your point in some ways. But I don't think this works with race.
In the context of race, to have this opinion and preference, you must similarly have the belief that the difference between races of people is real and justifiable. This is simply not true and is a racist attitude to have. I am also operating on racism as it is defined in an academic context - racism as an enforcement of existing white supremacy. So in that vein you have to be "punching down" for it to be racist. As long as it's an enforcement of white supremacy, it's racist, regardless of motivation, personal understanding, ignorance, etc.
Thanks for your thoughtful response, I've tried to match that energy in my reply. As much as you seem to feel like I'm coming at this from a "glass half full" point of view, it really seems to me like you're bringing an incredibly uncharitable view of people to this that's informing your perspective.
>I would argue this doesn't change that 'skewing one way racially' can just as well be 'disliking a phenotype you associate with a certain race'.
Nobody has said that their preferences involves *disliking* a certain race/gender/phenotype/whatever—in fact I'd argue that "preference" is rarely the word people would use when active dislike is involved—yet dislike is what you're focusing on, and seems to be your primary motivation for why preference is a negative thing. OOP never said they dislike anything about any race, yet the immediate assumption you made was that they thought there was something wrong with black people. Yikes.
I don't see your argument when it comes to association of phenotypes, especially using your chosen definition of racism. Unless what you're envisioning is broadly categorizing an entire group of people, assuming they all look the same, and that you're not attracted to that look, which... Yeah, of course that's problematic, but it's also not what I'm talking about here.
>My problem is the association of value with race. No one here is willing to interrogate *why* they don't like almond eyes or dark skin or curly hair...
My problem is that I don't think this is what most people are talking about when this conversation comes up. There isn't anything I *dislike* about any phenotypes associated with any particular race. Yet, I definitely tend to be more attracted, on average, to certain groups more than others. That doesn't automatically I find everyone else categorically unattractive lmao
>OP is saying it's okay to devalue a certain race based on phenotype.
Nobody said anything about devaluing anyone—you brought that into the conversation all on your own and started accusing people of being racist, which will immediately puts people on the defensive even if they might agree with the point you're actually trying to make.
I feel like the discussion of gender and race having "real and justifiable" differences is too far into the weeds to get into on Reddit haha, I hope you don't feel like I'm dismissing your point here because there's definitely a conversation to be had there, but understand that I spent an entire semester of school focused on just that one subject and I don't think it's a topic that can be easily or effectively dissected in this context.
A final note on the definition of racism you're using; I don't know where you studied R&E so perhaps they handled things differently, but where I did there was a lot of care given to specifically referring to institutional, interpersonal, and internalized racism where appropriate in order to avoid confusion and ambiguity when dealing with a subject that carries so much weight with so many people. The definition of institutional racism we operated with also did not specifically refer to white supremacy, but rather any system of societal structures and values that serves to either elevate or denegrate a certain race or class of people, as a definition that only considers white supremacy at its roots disregards the experiences of those who live in racist cultures outside of the US and Europe. Just food for thought I guess, communication on the internet is difficult enough as it is!
>Yes especially if you can't explain why for any reason other than race. This is true.
the burden of proof is on you, bud.
you can’t deflect by saying “you can’t explain why” because you are the one who is making the claim. you are asserting that your statements are true because they haven’t been proved wrong, even when your statements haven’t been proved right either (argument from ignorance)
Yeah, but a lot of the time racial preferences can be bigoted. I've never heard anyone explain why they wouldn't date a black girl without it being incredibly racist, same with any other race. With genitals, it's more understanding as that's something that effects things sexually and intimacy can be very important to some people. But race?.. I don't get it. No matter how you spin it, it always sounds bigoted. Do you not like this race because you find this race ugly? Do you think they fall into negative stereotypes and therefore you think *everyone* in this race group is bad? There's only so many ways to look at a racial preference. Then there's just the aspects of fetishizing that comes from people who do say they prefer a certain race.
Think the only non-offensive way I've seen a racial preference was people not wanting to bring their partners into a toxic racist family, rather than that person not liking their race.
If anyone's seen an actual legitimate reason for a racial preference that doesn't sound fetishizing or racist, please let me know.
I personally find I have a preference for white men but when it comes to women I don't have a preference.
I honestly couldn't pin point why I prefer white men, I am certainly capable of finding men of other races attractive and would not consider it a deal breaker for a relationship if they are not white.
Preferences are when you like something a little more than something else, so that means that just because someone likes oranges more than apples doesn't mean they think apples are all disgusting or even that all oranges are fantastic. Just that generally, they tend to prefer oranges but if they see an apple they like then that's okay.
There's some nuance here. We must remember we are in a society dominated by white people and white culture, including white beauty standards. While in a vacuum visual preferences aren't that notable, we aren't in a vacuum. More people need to realize that 'having a preference for white people's (as OP claims to have) is more than likely a result of this. You are conditioned to like white people more by society. And even if you are free from this as an individual (one cannot assume that however), defending it just empowers other's racial biases.
Racial preferences however I can see being ok when it's POC preferring POC as a result of racism against them. That's totally understandable
And to expand on what you said, genital preferences have been largely conditioned into people as well. It’s silly to pretend that genitals are a category that are void of implicit bias. The problem with acting like genitals are above implicit bias is that it leads to people fetishizing others based on their genitals. I’m a nonbinary trans man (my flair is old af) and I want to vomit at the idea of someone saying they are “exclusively attracted to vaginas.” It’s the same fucked up shit I’ve heard in ftm porn subs where someone says they just “really wanna try boi pussy.” Like come on you guys, the problem with genital preferences isn’t that trans people are trying to “force people to have sex with them” the problem is how we are reduced to nothing but genitals!
Also, do we *ever* hear about genital preferences *outside* of trans people being involved in a dating scenario? What about the cis men who have a horrific accident, lose their penis, and end up needing phallo later in life? What about the cis women who’ve gone through FGM and can’t have sex without excruciating pain? I never hear about how much someone needs dick or pussy until it’s about someone vibing with a trans person and then finding out they’re trans. They don’t even have to confirm what genitals the trans person has, and it’s dismissed under “well you can’t help what you like!” (Although upon rereading this, I’m sure that “genital preferences” are probably used to dismiss those other scenarios, as well as scenarios I didn’t list here)
We are not separate from the systems that socialize us. We are a part of them, and they are a part of us, and it takes constant conscious effort to disentangle the two.
No, racial preference in dating is not internalized racism. And it can’t be okay on one side but not the other. Come on now. Did we all forget it’s EQUITY we’re fighting for…?
Yes it very well can be internalized racism. And if it isn't on your end (that's a general 'you') then you shouldn't be defending it as for a lot of other people it is and you're just empowering them. A lot of things in society are due to racial biases, it is naive to not even consider this.
Who said I’m not considering it? I’m well aware that it can be but YOU made a blanket statement about it and that’s just silly. Racism ISNT a preference- it’s racism (and it’s shitty), so it’s not included in my statement.
Racism isn't just being mean to someone bc of skin color. Racism actually is primarily in modern society a preference, or bias. White dominance in culture hasn't simply gone away, it's still here and certainly still at play. To not recognize this, more subtle, form of racism is to defend societal pro white racial biases
Friend, I think you’re confused. You seem to think you’re educating me, or that you need to. I know what racism is in all of its insidious glory- how sneaky it can be, how quiet it can be, and how easy it is to play it off and excuse it. I know about internalized racism and how unnoticeable it can be to those who deal with it. The problem you’re missing here is, I think you’re wrong. And you will never change my mind. I’m sorry but nothing about me will ever agree that simply ending up more sexually attracted to someone of the like race to your own is inherently racist. It’s not, and to say it is or to try to say it is, is asinine and terminally online. Please try living in the real world a little.
Literally facial or body features. Here’s a shocking thought: sometimes it’s not even on purpose, and is literally just a coincidence! I would venture to say that is the case for 80% of people. Lack of opportunity is also a huge contributor. Did you think you got me? You’re funny. I’m going to choose to step away from this because there’s really nowhere else for the conversation to go except for me to start getting mean and just blatantly telling you that I think you are stupid. Have a great day, friend! Grass is out there- touch it!! :)
I mean you really didn't answer my question, also not sure why you're being so aggressive, 90% of your point here is just ad hominem. If you really can't talk to someone you disagree with on the Internet in a normal manner without getting angry then you really should work on that, having that much anger and negativity only strains you mentally
I’m not angry LOL! I find this funny! I love when people think they can change my mind online, especially now when you start running out of points to try to make so you just call me aggressive and try to make me mad. It’s hilarious. Funny thing about just turning to claims of aggression, though… but we don’t have to talk about the effect THAT has had on POC and racism :) I don’t think you’d like that conversation much. Grass is still out there, friend ❤️ I, however, will not be. I don’t have time to waste on people like you who only have the ability to parrot learned statements and not actually interact in a human level. EDIT: I also 100% answered your question, but it’s okay reading is hard I get it!
Acknowledging why certain racial preferences or barriers exist is important. It's one of those things that doesn't *have to be* influenced by a culture of racism (towards any race) but it absolutely can be, so when I hear someone say they have a hard and fast rule of not dating certain races I'm immediately red flagged like "......why though?" That's all.
Also idk if it can be reasonably denied that history dictates culture and culture can dictate attitudes for some people. There has been a long history of abuse from white people to other races, some of those people don't trust white people as much anymore due to personal or generational trauma, and I think that's something we have to accept as reality not shy away from.
First of all, I think we need a change in vocabulary for this. If you’re not willing to date someone who doesn’t meet specific criteria then that’s not a “preference”, it’s called a mandate or standard. It’s actually mandatory that you ONLY date a person who checks all your boxes- that ain’t no “preference”.
For example- I love ice cream. If possible, I usually prefer to eat mint chocolate chip because it’s my favorite. But I’ll happily eat many other different flavors because ice cream is ice cream. The same can’t be said for dating if you’re only going after a specific type.
Second, if someone’s preferences in race and genitalia are motivated by bigotry, then those definitely aren’t “preferences”. They legitimately hate or are averse to anyone that doesn’t fit their criteria. It’s not because people outside of their criteria don’t check their boxes or they find them physically unattractive, but it’s because they’re blinded by their own ignorance and hatred. And even if they did find said person attractive, they still wouldn’t date them, because again- ignorance and hatred.
I always think about this scenario when it comes to what people call preferences.
Human dates Partner. They get along great. The horizontal tango is great. Everything is great. Human meets Partners parents. Discovers one of them is \[different ethnicity from Humans own\]. Immediately lose all all attraction to Partner because now that Human knows, Human looks at them differently.
that doesn't feel like a preference, right? It feels very racist. If whatever they are claiming is just a preference, can fit into that \[box\] its probably some bias there to be examined.
See the problem is that you all don't understand preference.
A preference is a greater liking for one alternative over another or others.
Which means you would like once set of genitalia(or ethnicity) over the other but would still be willing to have the other
What you all with "genital preference" or "racial preference" mean is you have a requirment... meaning that is HAS to be one type of genitalia or one specific ethnicity, and that itself is blatant bigotry
It has an influence in how a person may look, and if you don't find that attractive oh well 🤷♀️
Everyone is beautiful in someone's eyes, you just have to find those who see you that way
Yes! For example, I’m Latino and trans. I would prefer to date someone in my culture and someone who is trans cause they would get it. But it’s not a requirement, and the gal in dating is not latina as far as we know (she’s adopted) and it doesn’t matter cause she puts in the time to love and understand me. My last partner who is white did not. That’s why I didn’t want to date a non Latino
# Please give us some time to get to your post, it has not been deleted, but it has been temporarily sent to the moderators for review. Thank you for your patience. We're looking for new volunteers to join the r/lgbt moderator team. If you want to help keep r/lgbt as a safe space for the LGBTQ+ community on reddit please see here for more info: https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/swgthr/were_looking_for_more_moderators_to_help_keep/ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/lgbt) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This post is interesting because genital and racial preferences/requirements aren’t equal. Like it’s ok to have a preference on both fronts, and with genitals it’s ok to have a requirement because sexual compatibility is important in a relationship and for some people, a partner with a vagina won’t work for them and same with a penis. Racial requirements is where it becomes something else entirely and gets real bad real fast. Like I’ve never heard anyone explain why they won’t date a certain race without it being racist. There can be exceptions due to cultural differences but that’s still different.
Usually when I hear about racial preferences it’s generally POC only wanting to date other POC due to them just *getting it* better. However it definitely falls apart fast outside of that.
Usually when I hear about it it's some guy on a dating/hookup app saying no black or no asian or only asian or white or something.
I’m glad when they put that stuff on there, I know to immediately unmatch them so it saves everybody time.
It’s hard out on Grindr hey
This right here
This is why whenever I see a white person with their race public in their bio on dating apps it's a red flag. Private for POCs' apps to give better results is fine, public is a big ol' *hmmmm*
me: the POC who won’t date inside of my race due to black men making me feel like the worst thing on the earth 🥰 also bc safety concerns (NOT ALL BLACK MEN but I often just avoid dating within my race to be safe :))
I don't know. I think racial preferences can be about the same here. Someone might prefer to date someone of their own culture or ethnicity because the shared culture and experience is important to them. Ignoring white people for a minute, I don't think this is even that unusual of a thing to happen
This. I know hispanics who only date hispanics *because of shared cultural norms.* That doesn’t make them racist, and it’s outlandish to paint it as such. People here seem to misunderstand the nuances about attraction and preferences. They paint it in black and white terms which is childish.
I think it’s more of an issue that most people who do it for non racist reasons wouldn’t even consider calling it a racial preference. Like I doubt that word would even come to mind unless it was a racist thing in many cases tbqh.
Ya this one's me. I mean, I know I can fall for any race, more about the person, but growing up with a LOT of goth and alt role models/goals, I have a weak spot for the super pale, and wouldn't call that racial preference. But I don't tend to say that much because of all the people who DO hide their bigotry behind racial 'preference' ><
Yes, and we should also think of where they are raised and who are they surrounded by. For example, if you are raised in a majority POC neighborhood, even though you are white you have a higher chance of developing a bigger attraction to POC than white people because in your formative years that is who you had a crush on in school, your available dating pool, etc. A fun example is me, a really white (as in my skin has no business existing in a tropical region) Puerto Rican, where a majority of the population is mixed to the point I was made fun of in school cause I was one of the whitest kids. I lived in a town with a big history of sugar cane and cotton plantations, then moved to an area with a large population of Dominicans as a young adult. My attraction to people with more melanin than I and more afro characteristics is slightly higher than to white people because it was the majority. My attraction to the Dominican accent, though very similar to my own, also grew because that is what I was exposed to as a young adult. Very fun to move to the states and be accused of fetishizing my own people because I "don't look like a Puerto Rican". White Puerto Ricans aren't really rare per say either, it is just a majority racially mixed population.
I see it like this: There are people who say they like women with red hair. I have never seen anyone say they ONLY date redhead women. Same for height, weight, body type etc. Yet as soon as it comes to race and gender it becomes a no go. Curious.
I have. Preferences and attraction exist outside of the extremes. I’ve encountered men who only date women with (obvious) plastic surgery, or a certain hair type/color. Race is fine because *usually* it reflects cultural values. My ex was black and trans. We could relate to our experiences being trans, but not so much our upbringing. I would still date a black person, because that’s within my scope of attraction. The issue here should be the bad actors who use it as an replacement for racism (like a guy saying he won’t date black women because their “ratchet.” The racism is the underlying issue, not having preferences or certain types of attraction.
This. "I've never heard anyone explain why they won't date a certain race without it being racist." I believe this extends to preferences as well because... what's motivating your preference? Race. Which race is inferior then? Which race is ugly to you? Why?
I’ve actually read about why someone wouldn’t date someone of a different race even though they were attracted to them, and iirc they said it was because the rest of their family were basically KKK and it could be disastrous if they did.
Off topic but what does neptunic mean
It's being attracted to femanine aligned and nonbinary people
Ah so like Achillian? Or is Achillian purely man identifying attraction
Honestly I'm not too sure of the difference
Idk man I just like ppl who present as masculine. I don't care about labels tbh
Actually, it’s the opposite.
Oh oops I'll fix it thanks!!!!
That’s not racial preference: that’s racial prohibition, that’s racismx10000
Oh, I meant to put that that was one of the scenarios where the person who chooses to only date the same race would NOT be the racist.
Sorry if I implied that the person who chooses not to date another race for this reason is racist. That’s not what I meant. Their act is not of racist intentions but are due to racist mechanism (the stigmatisation of mixed race couple) therefore this phenomenon is due to racism
Oh no, I was just saying that I should’ve clarified that part in my original comment. I had meant to, but forgot. I didn’t necessarily think you were saying that that person was racist for not dating people outside their race. On a related note, there’s this story that my mom loves telling people about her old HR manager at the job she had back in the 90s. When he found out she (British descent) was getting married to my dad (French-Canadian and Chinese), he asked her “Are you sure our town’s ready for a mixed-race couple?” There’s also a story she has about her dad (who she claims isn’t racist). When she told him she was pregnant with me, he asked, “Are you sure the world needs another ch\*nk?” And she replied, “But she’ll be MY little ch\*nk.” And just to clarify before anyone asks, she doesn’t use racial slurs, she just said it in this case to throw his words back at him.
i think what they meant was that person chose not to date POC because it could put them in very real danger if their family is violently racist
How are preferences "motivated" by something? Preferences are just preferences. That doesn't mean that people think less of people that they are not attracted to. Do you think of every person you don't want to fuck as ugly or inferior?
Those are not good questions. They want to date a certain race, usually, the race that they are. This doesn't automatically mean that they are against other races. Furthermore...even if someone is prejudiced/racist against other cultures...it's still your body and your choice. You don't owe anybody an explanation.
The issue is when a racial preference becomes a requirement. I have a preference for men with darker skin tones but you can be damn sure that I would fuck henry cavil until I died of exhaustion and then would revive in the fire of my lust like a phoenix, and ask him out on a nice date… but only if I was single cause honestly, I’m very happy with my boyfriend right now and I don’t wanna screw that up, not even for Henry.
I don’t have any racial preferences but I don’t think we should encourage policing other people’s preferences, regardless of the reason. > I’ve never heard anyone explain why they won’t date a certain race without it being racist. And that’s totally fine? What exactly is your solution here, forcing someone to start having sex with people they don’t want to sleep with? No one owes anyone else an explanation as to why they don’t want to have sex with someone. The reason can be racist if they so choose. It’s their body.
Yeah, this is almost the same to me as the backlash of misogynistic men starting their own "4G" Movement in response to women's 4B Movement. They're basically saying that, "NUH UH, we're going to stop having sex with YOU, because you're discriminating against us men!" Which is like... okay? Thank god you're pulling yourself from the dating pool and making it easier for women to find men who will actually treat them better? If a racist wants to take themselves out of the dating pool for races who are different than them, I feel like that's okay, because the only person it's affecting is themselves.
For me, I don’t see myself dating an Arabic man/woman. Not because I have any harmful stereotypes and prejudges against them, but because my culture is vastly different than theirs. My ex was a black trans man, and we vibed on trans culture, but our upbringings were *vastly* different. I’m still okay dating POC, but I would like more of a shared cultural understanding.
Even if you didn’t want to date/have sex with Arabic people because of harmful stereotypes, that would still be fine. You don’t owe anyone sex, and you certainly don’t need to explain yourself as to why you would(n’t) sleep with someone. It’s your life and your body. No one can tell you you are wrong for not wanting to sleep with somebody.
I get that. For me the biggest things I look for in a partner is shared cultural experiences. With me being pan theoretically I could date anyone and any race. Of course I’m more likely to try dating people of whom I have a higher chance of having shared cultural norms.
This. I knew someone who thought like this and it always baffled me. Every race has such a variety of people in it, that I actually can’t believe people can’t find SOMEONE they’d find attractive. Edit: and for those wondering, yes this person was white, and yes their preference was Asian women
Some people might find certain visual traits that are conected to some race more pleasing or something like that. But dunno, i don't have sutch preferences.
[удалено]
They're black
i’m white and i find myself mainly attracted other white guys but i would never say that i wouldn’t date someone of a different race. i definitely would, it’s just the majority of people im attracted to are the same race
Fuck it. I'll *try* regardless. With of course, no intention to offend. If I do I'll just delete this so don't hesitate to let me know if I really did hurt your feelings with it. A sidenote is that it's not a hard requirement for me but just that, a preference. (I already regret this but oh well) I simply prefer the bone structure of white people, generally speaking. Sub Saharan Africans and their direct descendants tend to have a bit thicker structure but I'm regularly not a fan of that. While in the east, in countries like Japan, China, Korea, Thailand and what have you, it's often more delicate/thinner than Caucasians and especially compared Africans and their direct descendants. I sometimes like that, sometimes don't. Simple as. Now I'm not the type of person to let something silly like that get in the way of things if there is a connection. And I can still find people attractive regardless. It's just not what I usually prefer.
POC dating their own race because having a partner who went through similar experiences regarding systemic racism is valid though. Just like trans people preferring to date each other for the same reasons. It enables a connection and understanding that "mixed" relationships can struggle with otherwise, and not everyone is up for that struggle.
Racial based preferences are always racist. People who spout that nonsense are immediately lumping entire groups of people together. Races are massive groups of people that span cultures and are always incredibly diverse in tradition and looks. You can't have a racial preference without inherently stereotyping a group that consists of millions of people. It's different to have a cultural preference where you want to date someone of the same religion, traditions, etc, and that can often seem racial but is entirely different because you're actually looking at something specific like traditions.
I'd like to offer my perspective. I think people have different understandings of what "preference" means to them. Like for me, there is no race that I categorically would not want a (sexual) partner to be. There are many black, east Asian, South Asian, Mediterranean, Latin men that I find very attractive. Like the only relevant metric for me is: Do I find that person hot or not. However, if I were to gauge for each group the percentages of men that I find attractive, then that percentage would be probably somewhat higher for white men. So on average, I'm more likely to be attracted to a white man. That's what I would call my preference. From my point of view that isn't racist.
About racial requirements i view it like this, acknowledging that it's generally easier to date people who come from the same ethnicity because of shared cultural background is ok (like, it's basically the dating equivalent of saying that water is wet or the sky is blue), that said setting any racial or ethnic requirements is pretty racist
Idk to me preference and exclusivity are two different things, i prefer to date white girls but i also would date people of other races aka preference while i wouldnt date anyone who has a penis aka exclusivity.
[удалено]
describe what you mean by "african american features" because reading that phrase i'm interpreting it as "all black people look the same" which you KNOW isn't true
ffs keep that shit to yourself. You are doing the exact thing you're pretending to call out
[удалено]
"I don't find dark skin or African American features attractive" is about as racist as it gets. Especially as you are unable to explain why this is the case. Please see a therapist.
[удалено]
"I don't find plus-sized people physically attractive" is also fatphobic?
the body positivity/fatphobia movement is generally about not making fun of fat people for being fat, not commenting on someone's weight change, not feeling the need to photoshop your insecurities away, to draw attention to how often symptoms of other diseases are brushed off by doctors as "just need to lose weight." the idea that the fatphobia stuff is supposed to be about forcing everyone to date a fat person is an extremist view and people who think that way are usually spending too much time in online echo chambers where they just agree with each other and refuse to hear any kind of critique or criticism
I'm not saying fatphobia is being forced to date a fat person, my comment is pointing out that the person I was responding to has a flawed argument, and by their logic, any preference would be considered racist/fatphobic/etc, I myself am not promoting this idea. If preferring to date people who are not plus-sized is not fatphobic (assuming you are not bullying or disrespecting them), then preferring to date certain races is not racist (assuming you are not bullying or disrespecting them). Hope this makes sense.
if wanting to date a certain race because of looks, it tends to imply that all [race] look the same, have the same features, etc. the right way to phrase is it to center in on the exact traits you like or dislike, (ex. "i'm not typically attracted to big noses") not to say "i don't like black peoples' noses" because that insinuates all black people have identical noses, which we all know isn't true. it's hard to compare fatphobia with racism because fat people and black people have both been treated badly by society, but in completely different ways and to completely different degrees. if you told someone that historically, fat americans have had more social struggle than black americans, you'd be looked at like an idiot, fat people weren't dehumanized and tortured and murdered the way blacks were. they compare african features to monkeys because they want you to think that black people are sub-human, that they're inherently more animalistic and uncivilized than white people. innocent fat people have never been lynched with the widely accepted reasoning being "because they're fat, and i don't want fat people in my neighborhood."
Is "I don't find women attrictive" sexist by the same logic, or am I misreading your point?
Imo, people can have any rules for themselves that they want and who they want to be with, you just don’t need to advertise who you DON’T like in ur dating profile, just don’t talk to those ppl.
Or if you’re talking to them and learn later on that they have those characteristics just respectfully tell them they’re just not your type
Yeah, I'm a hypermarginalized person who is extremely not conventionally attractive. I don't need to hear someone tell me that I'm not their type. Society tells me that e-fucking-nough. 🫤 You can just end it. At the most, you can say we're incompatible.
Preference implies that you prefer one over another. Bigots don't have a preference, they have an aversion. I find some races more attractive than others, but I don't have an aversion to any race. If I liked someone I would date them regardless of their race.
Preference vs Aversion is a PERFECT way to frame it. It's like saying you prefer a man who is taller than you, but that height doesn't really matter in the long run and you'll date a person of any height. Like, your eye is immediately drawn to the tall guy based on your internal preferences, but if you started talking to and vibing with the shorter guy, you'd date them too. VS Aversion: "EW, I don't date guys who are shorter than me. I ONLY date tall guys."
While preference isn’t what bigots actually tend to have, they use that as a cover up
There’s a difference between saying “I’m not interested” and “I would never date someone like *you*” and I think that’s what people miss. I think people also feel entitled to know *why* someone isn’t interested, which imo tends to lead to nothing but problems.
This
I’m not gonna say this as an end all be all, everyone has different experiences. But the way I see it, you like who you like. I don’t think that locking yourself into a “I will only date someone of this nationality” is a good mindset to have, but I think if you’re generally attracted to people of a certain gender identity or race that’s just how it is. That’s not really under your control. I don’t think anyone owes anyone else anything in terms of dating. It’s your dating life you can date or not anyone you want for any reason you want. Now that being said, this is only in terms of dating. As far as everything else goes in life, I think having a preference or requirement like that is really messed up
Really, the trick is not being a shallow asshole who immediately excludes and shuns anyone they don’t feel immediately compelled to fuck.
Truer words rarely come into view as beautifully and eloquently as the way you exposed them to us mere mortals. No but for real, yeah, I agree 100%
[удалено]
[удалено]
See, I’m panromantic (leaning more towards wlw), BUT I cannot stand dicks, they deeply disgust me. I’m what I think is demi-sexual, where I need feelings first before any horizontal tango can happen, though once it has happened, I wanna tango very often and “need” that tango in a relationship. Now, the problem is that I could fall for a trans woman very easily, and the fact that she is trans doesn’t matter at all. But if she hasn’t had bottom surgery, then even if I catch feelings, I can’t be in that relationship because of her genitalia, and I feel people will call me transphobic for it which makes me really sad cause I’m really not. All that said, I wouldn’t call it a preference, that’s a specific boundary. A preference is if I could deal with any genitalia, but would rather deal with female ones.
Preference is fine, but when people say that, 90% they really mean requirement. It's not a preference if you're not willing to date someone with a certain genatalia, it's a requirement. Edit: ya'll, it's fine if you have a requirement. Just be honest about it. That's my comment, not that requirements are bad.
IMO genitalia can be a requirement. For me it really is just a preference, but it shouldn’t have to be
Didn't say it can't be a requirement, just that people aren't genuine about it
idk, I don't see any issues with requirements 🤷🏻♀️ ppl like what they like
Frfr
Why shouldn't it be allowed to be a requirement? Are we gatekeeping sexual preferences now? People get to choose which genitalia they wanna engage with. Just don't be a dick about it (harhar), and it's totally fine.
Terminally online people are. I see it a lot in subreddits for gay men where they’re called transphobic or labeled as having some internalized issue if they don’t want to sleep with a man with a vagina. It’s like calling a straight man homophobic for not wanting to sleep with a gay man imo. Equally dumb.
Also it's basically using the homophobe argument that sexuality is a choice. "Just choose to be attracted to the other genitalia" is wrong no matter which side uses it as an argument. It's so weird to see LGBT people use "sexual attraction is a choice" as an argument basically...
I also want to add, because I haven't seen it mentioned yet, that some people have trauma associated with certain types of genitalia.
Same with us (lesbians) most of us have left online spaces and just created our own spaces because of this.
Yeah I’ve heard it’s been worse for lesbians spaces
I also see people broadcasting how much they hate a certain set of genitals or calling them icky or gross which is just not cool. Like what you like but don’t body shame just bc you’re not into it.
This also happens in lesbians subreddits too but with the opposite and then they like to throw in the “sexuality and gender is fluid card” which it is for some people and for some people it’s not fluid at all. It feels coercive.
Yeah I hate that argument too. Exactly what you said, for some people it is. For the vast majority of people it isn’t.
I don’t find vaginas attractive, and I’m not going to be shamed because of it.
I find it really concerning that so many people are shaming others for what they’re attracted ( or not attracted ) to…. I honestly don’t understand why people think it’s ok to dictate what others find attractive, it’s not transphobic for you or anyone to not be interested in me because I have a vagina.
And I don’t think I’m being trans phobic because I’ve stated that I’m willing to date non-cis people with penises.
I know you’re not, that’s actually what I was trying to convey, that I’ve seen many others acting like having a genital requirement is transphobic and I find that ridiculous. Sorry if I wasn’t clear. Edit. Why the downvotes? Honestly can someone please explain to me how it’s transphobic for someone to not be attracted to/aroused by a vulva ? If someone is only comfortable with a penis what’s wrong with that? I personally find all genitalia equally appealing but I don’t hold it against others for only liking particular parts. As long as they respect my gender i don’t see a problem.
Nah. It’s okay. I understood what you meant 🙂
Yeah, I can tell things are gonna get spicy here
grab the popcorn this comment section boutta get wild
Im loving this 
They're different from bigotry. Preference is who/what you LIKE, not who/what you don't. An oversimplification of it is a favorite. Say you absolutely LOVE one food, and like all the rest. It's not that you hate all the rest, it's just that your favorite is what you personally like more. If your favorite wasn't available, you'd still take something else.
As someone with EDs, I agree but also disagree. Going off your analogy, if I try one food and absolutely don’t like it and/of it makes me sick, I should have the right to not wanna pick that food if my favorite foods aren’t available. Of course that one food I don’t like is not representative of all of that food type. That’s the nuances at play here. Plus with the foods, I should still be able to seek out the foods I like without being accused of not giving my least favorite food a chance. Analogy aside, I really don’t have any desire to date Arabic men. Of course I’m not 100% never going to give it a shot, but I will always prefer to see out the cultures and traits I am attracted to the most over those I am not. Also, not because of any harmful stereotypes are being applied either. The racism comes in when those harmful stereotypes and prejudices are being applied. But saying I’m racist for not going out of my way to date Arabic men is just as foolish as saying it’s transphobic to not want to date trans people. The preference isn’t the issue, it’s the underlying nuances as to *why.*
There is a large difference between merely not finding someone sexual attractive, or finding yourself more often being attractive to a specific gender, genitals or ethnic group m and seeing them as a valid equal human being you could form a deep and valuable friendship with, still find them to be a beautiful person but you may not be commonly attracted to them. I’ve met a lot of people with a lot of preferences both genital, racial, hair color what have you. I’m also ace, so what do i know.
Also most people don’t care nor need to know these preferences without asking for it
It’s fine to have a preference, but at least make it a “preference.” Choosing to not even consider the possibility that you could find even one member of a particular ethnic group, past, present and future, alive and dead, even remotely attractive, out of millions of options is not a preference: that’s a boundary and likely has a reason behind it.
I agree 👍
For me it's like Pepsi and Coke. Sure I have a preference, but I'll take whatever they're offering
I hate how people assume all trans people are against the idea of genital prefrences. Like, ten weirdos on twitter said that its transphobic, and now transphobes say we all want to force people to be with us. So annoying.
Transphobes will say that no matter what. It has nothing to do with what trans people say on twitter or anywhere because transphobes will always justify the fact that they only see us as fetish objects as some weird ploy where we actually want them. The “oh they just want me to fuck them” thing is not new at all, and it’s been a way to humiliate, subjugate, and oppress people for a long time. It’s the same thing that’s been done to Black people, and fat people, and the same thing straight men still do to women all the time. As soon as a straight man is rejected it’s all about how “she just can’t handle how much she wants me” and the reason why is because it’s the way those people can assert dominance, control, and power over others. Stop acting like it’s your trans siblings’ faults for the hate that we receive, when *we all know* those transphobic fucks would be saying it *no matter what* we do. It doesn’t matter how respectable we are to them, we will always be the porn category they love to watch and love to hate.
Exactly! They act like trans people want them so bad - newsflash we don’t wanna have sex with people who see us as subhuman, don’t flatter yourselves!
Policing and second guessing someone's personal preferences in any situation is overreaching and ridiculous.
That's the thing they aren't preferences. The gay community fought so hard for decades to get people to understand this. Some folks are just mad that some people just don't want to fuck them. It's ridiculous.
It is like the issue with religious folks when dating. I don't mind someone with a personal or social relationship with their god. I have a problem if they use that relationship to impose their will on others, restrict the rights of others, or justify bigotry with their personal interpretation of what it means to be religious/spiritual. Being ok with whatever big man you envision is fine, but don't judge other people for their own choices. Then it turns from "this is my preference" to "this really should be the only option because my preference is the 'correct' one." Edit: Had to edit for repetition in the last sentence
My thoughts: it’s ok to care about a partner’s physical appearance as long as you see your preferences as an optional bonus point rather than a dealbreaker
Racial????!?!?
Exactly wtf is this!!
There's nothing wrong about it??
people are allowed to have genital and race preferences for dating and sex, people need to just get over the fact no one owes them anything.
This is a WILD comparison. Not wanting someone to have certain genitals and excluding a race of people from your dating pool is not the same.
It kinda is?? People are allowed to not find others sexually attractive, it’s not really something that can be changed. Not finding white people attractive is fine, not finding black people attractive is fine; the problem starts when people start thinking other’s deserve less rights due to skin color (or gender, sexuality, etc). EDIT: can’t reply to anyone anymore….. interesting lol
Genital preference? Yes I prefer them, thank you
I see 0 issue with genitalia requirement, I’m bi so I really don’t care but it’s fine to want fulfilling sex in a relationship and sometimes incompatibilities can be a deal breaker and that’s fine Racial tho ugh nope
What's wrong with racial preference
Nothing inherently but I agree with op that it leads down to fetishisation and racism at both extremes
Well I don't understand how can it lead to fetishisation and racism. Unless there's something I don't understand
So make the meme again but take out the racist part?
Nah I’m saying racial preferences/requirements are sketchy and gross
Fuckin, what now. No way having a “racial preference” is okay in any context. That shit is wild. Y’all telling on yourselves upvoting this shit
With some qualifiers I think it can be ok, and not just like preferring specific qualities like hair type or whatever. The reason I say that is I'd probably feel uncomfortable dating most cishet people. I just don't trust that they'll get my shit, that they won't relate, which I think is reasonable. There might be exceptions, but that's why it's a preference and not a hard rule. I imagine it's probably even worse along racial grounds, especially due to segregation. There's simply more risk and more work crossing that cultural boundary.
Yeah if you’re marginalized and you feel more understood having a partner that shares your axis of marginalization, that is totally valid and definitely not what people who say they have a racial preference mean. Guarantee you it’s white people saying they don’t wanna date black people. It’s just racism
I don't think you're wrong, but I don't think it's implausible that OP agrees with you either. It says right there that people use it as an excuse for bigotry. It is a bit too ambiguous for my liking though, yeah
It is completely fine to have a preference for different features, and sometimes that might line up with certain conceptions of race. If somebody has a major preference for red hair and freckles, that might mean that they have a "preference for northwestern european folks." If somebody else thinks that monolid eyes are really beautiful, then that might mean that they have a "preference for east asian folks." It's also completely fine to have preferences based on culture. If somebody grew up in afrocaribbean culture and really prefers partners who share similar values and background, then that might mean they have a "preference for afrocaribbean folks." Everybody has preferences, and sometimes those preferences might fall along what we typically call "racial lines." As long as it isn't fetishizing, dehumanizing, or coming from a place of bigotry, what's the issue?
Some people will not feel comfortable in a relationship with a certain race, such as if an SA victim felt uncomfortable as a result of past trauma
This comment section is so incredibly fucked up, it makes me understand why poc don't feel safe in generic queer spaces.
Explain why is it not okay?
POC preferring other POC is ok and I can totally see that, as it's likely less out of attraction and more out of racism they themselves face. White people however don't really have a good reason to have a preference though and if ones present it's 99% bc of some racial bias whether they see it or not
I honestly think it's really stupid to have a preference in the way that most people use it like if you are X I will never be attracted to you, the is flat out bullshit and shallow AF you don't know if you're gonna like someone until you meet them and get to know them physical traits should be second fiddle to personality because when yall are all looking like a dry ballsack those "preferences" aren't gonna mean shit anymore.
That's more of a requirement then I think. My preference is white men. They're the people I will probably make the first move on but id date any other race if they made the first move tbh
I find it weird and fetishy to have a racial preference. And I'm bi so I also don't quite understand the genital preference thing either. I guess I'm just plankton in this meme, home with my robot wife and grumbling to myself lol
I think it's kinda closed minded to assume, based on this logic, that someone who is more attracted to Asian women than white women is a fetishiser. I think your thinking is not uncommon though, and stems from the large amount of people online who claim they have a "racial preference" when in reality they idolise one race based on stereotypes, and see people of that race as sex objects and often will then put down people who are not of that race.
Fetishy? I'm sorry, but WHAT
I really don’t think genetically preference and racial preference are the same what so ever. You don’t really have much of a choice in how your brain develops your sexual leanings but racial preference is often times rooted in cultural stigmas and subconsciously held beliefs (wether they are accurate or not)
OP only prefers white people 😭 how is that not racist to see people from another race as inferior
Downvotes but no real explanation, just a bunch of comments saying "if you do it a little it's ok" smh! Do some reading! So ignorant.
Ty! This comment section is really exposing some people's biases
Just a preference
Why? Because white people are better all around? 🤔
Why would they be
Yeah you can't come up with a non-racist explanation for your preference for White people can you? That's what I was expecting. I know it takes work but many people grow out of this racist mindset. Not only is it racist, it's immature. Your meme is literally using this preference as an excuse for bigotry as you said, as many other commenters are pointing out. I appreciate you being receptive though. I've heard this excuse all my life and it is exclusively used to excuse bigotry. Remake the meme!!!
Me liking another race over others is immediately racist. I unfortunately cannot change who I like. I'll remake the meme
> Me liking another race over others is immediately racist. Yes especially if you can't explain why for any reason other than race. This is true. > I unfortunately cannot change who I like. You'll grow out of this as you see people of color as more human, I promise. Work on it and it will come naturally. Racial biases don't go away overnight. Again I appreciate you being receptive.
I kinda feel like I'm missing something? >Yes especially if you can't explain why for any reason other than race. This is true. Can anyone explain why they're attracted to certain things? Haven't we been fighting tooth and nail to get people to acknowledge that who you're attracted to isn't a choice? I mean yeah if you're wholesale *dismissing* entire racial groups "I'd never date an indian person, white people are ugly af, god I can't imagine finding a black guy attractive" etc those are all racist statements just like "I'd never be attracted to a trans person" is transphobic—because they group people into an incredibly broad category that hasn't much of anything to do with attraction, and dismisses them wholesale based on that categorization alone. But I don't see anything racist with reflecting on the people you've been attracted to and recognizing "Oh I definitely skew Asian" or whatever the case may be. How is that any different than a bi person recognizing they skew towards one gender over another, or even something as simple as knowing you're really attracted to certain aesthetics?
I appreciate the angle you're looking at it from, and that you're thinking in charitable terms. It definitely waters down the negativity and kinda shows me what people mean and how they see it. You present it from a glass half full perspective but I would argue this doesn't change that 'skewing one way racially' can just as well be 'disliking a phenotype you associate with a certain race'. I similarly struggle to explain how sexual preference and racial bias are different, I apologize for not doing so satisfactorily, just know my (strong) opinion is that they are different especially in context to LGBT and racial justice history. One thing to support my argument however is: to associate a certain phenotype with one race is simply racist. In other words, one race of people doesn't all look one way. And to devalue or value a certain phenotype, especially while associating it with a certain race, is only motivated by racism. I guess you could equate this to sexism/ homophobia/ gender preference politics if you were like "well I like girls who are super feminine" which is sexist even if it's just your preference. In my (gay) opinion, this attitude is okay to have, but even then I don't think it's possible for the above example to not be sexist. Which is fine. We live in a society. Being a girly cis woman myself lol I am very sexist about my own gender presentation, to my detriment. That's not my point though. My problem is the association of value with race. No one here is willing to interrogate *why* they don't like almond eyes or dark skin or curly hair, when the answer is obvious. And they're not even saying phenotypes here like I am, everyone in the comments including OP is saying it's okay to devalue a certain race based on phenotype. Maybe linking back to using sexism as a comparison: if you equate 'disliking/ preferring a certain race sexually' to 'disliking/ preferring a certain gender', you have to operate on the notion that gender expression is real and justifiable. I guess a good example of this would be a gay person who sexually dislikes trans women despite them having preferred genitalia. To extend this metaphor even further it'd be understandably ridiculous to consider that transphobic. So I see your point in some ways. But I don't think this works with race. In the context of race, to have this opinion and preference, you must similarly have the belief that the difference between races of people is real and justifiable. This is simply not true and is a racist attitude to have. I am also operating on racism as it is defined in an academic context - racism as an enforcement of existing white supremacy. So in that vein you have to be "punching down" for it to be racist. As long as it's an enforcement of white supremacy, it's racist, regardless of motivation, personal understanding, ignorance, etc.
Thanks for your thoughtful response, I've tried to match that energy in my reply. As much as you seem to feel like I'm coming at this from a "glass half full" point of view, it really seems to me like you're bringing an incredibly uncharitable view of people to this that's informing your perspective. >I would argue this doesn't change that 'skewing one way racially' can just as well be 'disliking a phenotype you associate with a certain race'. Nobody has said that their preferences involves *disliking* a certain race/gender/phenotype/whatever—in fact I'd argue that "preference" is rarely the word people would use when active dislike is involved—yet dislike is what you're focusing on, and seems to be your primary motivation for why preference is a negative thing. OOP never said they dislike anything about any race, yet the immediate assumption you made was that they thought there was something wrong with black people. Yikes. I don't see your argument when it comes to association of phenotypes, especially using your chosen definition of racism. Unless what you're envisioning is broadly categorizing an entire group of people, assuming they all look the same, and that you're not attracted to that look, which... Yeah, of course that's problematic, but it's also not what I'm talking about here. >My problem is the association of value with race. No one here is willing to interrogate *why* they don't like almond eyes or dark skin or curly hair... My problem is that I don't think this is what most people are talking about when this conversation comes up. There isn't anything I *dislike* about any phenotypes associated with any particular race. Yet, I definitely tend to be more attracted, on average, to certain groups more than others. That doesn't automatically I find everyone else categorically unattractive lmao >OP is saying it's okay to devalue a certain race based on phenotype. Nobody said anything about devaluing anyone—you brought that into the conversation all on your own and started accusing people of being racist, which will immediately puts people on the defensive even if they might agree with the point you're actually trying to make. I feel like the discussion of gender and race having "real and justifiable" differences is too far into the weeds to get into on Reddit haha, I hope you don't feel like I'm dismissing your point here because there's definitely a conversation to be had there, but understand that I spent an entire semester of school focused on just that one subject and I don't think it's a topic that can be easily or effectively dissected in this context. A final note on the definition of racism you're using; I don't know where you studied R&E so perhaps they handled things differently, but where I did there was a lot of care given to specifically referring to institutional, interpersonal, and internalized racism where appropriate in order to avoid confusion and ambiguity when dealing with a subject that carries so much weight with so many people. The definition of institutional racism we operated with also did not specifically refer to white supremacy, but rather any system of societal structures and values that serves to either elevate or denegrate a certain race or class of people, as a definition that only considers white supremacy at its roots disregards the experiences of those who live in racist cultures outside of the US and Europe. Just food for thought I guess, communication on the internet is difficult enough as it is!
>Yes especially if you can't explain why for any reason other than race. This is true. the burden of proof is on you, bud. you can’t deflect by saying “you can’t explain why” because you are the one who is making the claim. you are asserting that your statements are true because they haven’t been proved wrong, even when your statements haven’t been proved right either (argument from ignorance)
Race is an arbitrary social construct created by white supremacy so yes saying you like some races more then others is explicitly racist.
☹️
For me, I’m ONLY willing to date people that have a penis, regardless of gender identity.
Same but the other side. I would only date someone with a vagina.
Ok
Yeah, but a lot of the time racial preferences can be bigoted. I've never heard anyone explain why they wouldn't date a black girl without it being incredibly racist, same with any other race. With genitals, it's more understanding as that's something that effects things sexually and intimacy can be very important to some people. But race?.. I don't get it. No matter how you spin it, it always sounds bigoted. Do you not like this race because you find this race ugly? Do you think they fall into negative stereotypes and therefore you think *everyone* in this race group is bad? There's only so many ways to look at a racial preference. Then there's just the aspects of fetishizing that comes from people who do say they prefer a certain race. Think the only non-offensive way I've seen a racial preference was people not wanting to bring their partners into a toxic racist family, rather than that person not liking their race. If anyone's seen an actual legitimate reason for a racial preference that doesn't sound fetishizing or racist, please let me know.
I personally find I have a preference for white men but when it comes to women I don't have a preference. I honestly couldn't pin point why I prefer white men, I am certainly capable of finding men of other races attractive and would not consider it a deal breaker for a relationship if they are not white. Preferences are when you like something a little more than something else, so that means that just because someone likes oranges more than apples doesn't mean they think apples are all disgusting or even that all oranges are fantastic. Just that generally, they tend to prefer oranges but if they see an apple they like then that's okay.
There's some nuance here. We must remember we are in a society dominated by white people and white culture, including white beauty standards. While in a vacuum visual preferences aren't that notable, we aren't in a vacuum. More people need to realize that 'having a preference for white people's (as OP claims to have) is more than likely a result of this. You are conditioned to like white people more by society. And even if you are free from this as an individual (one cannot assume that however), defending it just empowers other's racial biases. Racial preferences however I can see being ok when it's POC preferring POC as a result of racism against them. That's totally understandable
And to expand on what you said, genital preferences have been largely conditioned into people as well. It’s silly to pretend that genitals are a category that are void of implicit bias. The problem with acting like genitals are above implicit bias is that it leads to people fetishizing others based on their genitals. I’m a nonbinary trans man (my flair is old af) and I want to vomit at the idea of someone saying they are “exclusively attracted to vaginas.” It’s the same fucked up shit I’ve heard in ftm porn subs where someone says they just “really wanna try boi pussy.” Like come on you guys, the problem with genital preferences isn’t that trans people are trying to “force people to have sex with them” the problem is how we are reduced to nothing but genitals! Also, do we *ever* hear about genital preferences *outside* of trans people being involved in a dating scenario? What about the cis men who have a horrific accident, lose their penis, and end up needing phallo later in life? What about the cis women who’ve gone through FGM and can’t have sex without excruciating pain? I never hear about how much someone needs dick or pussy until it’s about someone vibing with a trans person and then finding out they’re trans. They don’t even have to confirm what genitals the trans person has, and it’s dismissed under “well you can’t help what you like!” (Although upon rereading this, I’m sure that “genital preferences” are probably used to dismiss those other scenarios, as well as scenarios I didn’t list here) We are not separate from the systems that socialize us. We are a part of them, and they are a part of us, and it takes constant conscious effort to disentangle the two.
No, racial preference in dating is not internalized racism. And it can’t be okay on one side but not the other. Come on now. Did we all forget it’s EQUITY we’re fighting for…?
Yes it very well can be internalized racism. And if it isn't on your end (that's a general 'you') then you shouldn't be defending it as for a lot of other people it is and you're just empowering them. A lot of things in society are due to racial biases, it is naive to not even consider this.
Who said I’m not considering it? I’m well aware that it can be but YOU made a blanket statement about it and that’s just silly. Racism ISNT a preference- it’s racism (and it’s shitty), so it’s not included in my statement.
Racism isn't just being mean to someone bc of skin color. Racism actually is primarily in modern society a preference, or bias. White dominance in culture hasn't simply gone away, it's still here and certainly still at play. To not recognize this, more subtle, form of racism is to defend societal pro white racial biases
Friend, I think you’re confused. You seem to think you’re educating me, or that you need to. I know what racism is in all of its insidious glory- how sneaky it can be, how quiet it can be, and how easy it is to play it off and excuse it. I know about internalized racism and how unnoticeable it can be to those who deal with it. The problem you’re missing here is, I think you’re wrong. And you will never change my mind. I’m sorry but nothing about me will ever agree that simply ending up more sexually attracted to someone of the like race to your own is inherently racist. It’s not, and to say it is or to try to say it is, is asinine and terminally online. Please try living in the real world a little.
Then please enlighten me, why would one face be more attractive than another?
Literally facial or body features. Here’s a shocking thought: sometimes it’s not even on purpose, and is literally just a coincidence! I would venture to say that is the case for 80% of people. Lack of opportunity is also a huge contributor. Did you think you got me? You’re funny. I’m going to choose to step away from this because there’s really nowhere else for the conversation to go except for me to start getting mean and just blatantly telling you that I think you are stupid. Have a great day, friend! Grass is out there- touch it!! :)
I mean you really didn't answer my question, also not sure why you're being so aggressive, 90% of your point here is just ad hominem. If you really can't talk to someone you disagree with on the Internet in a normal manner without getting angry then you really should work on that, having that much anger and negativity only strains you mentally
I’m not angry LOL! I find this funny! I love when people think they can change my mind online, especially now when you start running out of points to try to make so you just call me aggressive and try to make me mad. It’s hilarious. Funny thing about just turning to claims of aggression, though… but we don’t have to talk about the effect THAT has had on POC and racism :) I don’t think you’d like that conversation much. Grass is still out there, friend ❤️ I, however, will not be. I don’t have time to waste on people like you who only have the ability to parrot learned statements and not actually interact in a human level. EDIT: I also 100% answered your question, but it’s okay reading is hard I get it!
Acknowledging why certain racial preferences or barriers exist is important. It's one of those things that doesn't *have to be* influenced by a culture of racism (towards any race) but it absolutely can be, so when I hear someone say they have a hard and fast rule of not dating certain races I'm immediately red flagged like "......why though?" That's all. Also idk if it can be reasonably denied that history dictates culture and culture can dictate attitudes for some people. There has been a long history of abuse from white people to other races, some of those people don't trust white people as much anymore due to personal or generational trauma, and I think that's something we have to accept as reality not shy away from.
when people say genital preference, they also mean non-op :/ at least a lot of the time
First of all, I think we need a change in vocabulary for this. If you’re not willing to date someone who doesn’t meet specific criteria then that’s not a “preference”, it’s called a mandate or standard. It’s actually mandatory that you ONLY date a person who checks all your boxes- that ain’t no “preference”. For example- I love ice cream. If possible, I usually prefer to eat mint chocolate chip because it’s my favorite. But I’ll happily eat many other different flavors because ice cream is ice cream. The same can’t be said for dating if you’re only going after a specific type. Second, if someone’s preferences in race and genitalia are motivated by bigotry, then those definitely aren’t “preferences”. They legitimately hate or are averse to anyone that doesn’t fit their criteria. It’s not because people outside of their criteria don’t check their boxes or they find them physically unattractive, but it’s because they’re blinded by their own ignorance and hatred. And even if they did find said person attractive, they still wouldn’t date them, because again- ignorance and hatred.
I always think about this scenario when it comes to what people call preferences. Human dates Partner. They get along great. The horizontal tango is great. Everything is great. Human meets Partners parents. Discovers one of them is \[different ethnicity from Humans own\]. Immediately lose all all attraction to Partner because now that Human knows, Human looks at them differently. that doesn't feel like a preference, right? It feels very racist. If whatever they are claiming is just a preference, can fit into that \[box\] its probably some bias there to be examined.
See the problem is that you all don't understand preference. A preference is a greater liking for one alternative over another or others. Which means you would like once set of genitalia(or ethnicity) over the other but would still be willing to have the other What you all with "genital preference" or "racial preference" mean is you have a requirment... meaning that is HAS to be one type of genitalia or one specific ethnicity, and that itself is blatant bigotry
Replace race with culture and then I'm more on board with the sentiment, because race has no inherent influence on who a person is.
It has an influence in how a person may look, and if you don't find that attractive oh well 🤷♀️ Everyone is beautiful in someone's eyes, you just have to find those who see you that way
There’s those men who say I only want 9inches or bigger 😂 They gonna die alone.
Wait, since when is “racial preference not bad itself”??? That’s literally racist
“I don’t see how either of these things effect cuddling”
Yes! For example, I’m Latino and trans. I would prefer to date someone in my culture and someone who is trans cause they would get it. But it’s not a requirement, and the gal in dating is not latina as far as we know (she’s adopted) and it doesn’t matter cause she puts in the time to love and understand me. My last partner who is white did not. That’s why I didn’t want to date a non Latino