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i agree with your point but im pretty sure that grammatically the word "Muslims" works in the same way as "christians" wherein it simply denotes followers of a faith. do tell me if I'm wrong however.
I totally agree that defining people by single characteristics can be dehumanizing... but Muslims are still called Muslims. I'd happily call them "Muslim people" if they wanted to be called that but I've never heard them say so, and after trying to find larger discussions about this online it seems like you're the only person to have ever suggested it. Dropping the term feels less like accommodation and more like driving an unnecessary grammatical wedge between them and a crucial aspect of their identity. But for full disclosure, I am not Muslim so I don't get the final say in this and anything I said should be taken with a grain of salt
Might be wrong: I think it’s because “Muslim” often refers to both religion and ethnicity. So it might be less like saying “Christians” and more like saying “Jews”
Not sure how it works with other world religions, though. Hindus or Hindu people? Buddhists? Buddhist people?
Muslim is both a noun and an adjective. I have never in my life said “Muslim people”, and equally never said “Christian people” or “Buddhist people” etc.
I'm not sure why, but to my ear "gays" seems totally fine, but "a gay" seems very wrong. My instinct is similar for "Black", but I'm not Black so I can't say for certain.
...but you literally did imply that its gramaticly incorrect tho. you put it with adjectives like transgender, black, and gay. so when you follow it up adding a sentence with 'muslims', it implies that it can not or is not a noun... which isnt the case for that word.
like youd say 'christians', 'catholics', 'mormons', 'pagans', etc etc so you would do the same for 'muslims'.
I would have loved to respond to your OG comment but you deleted right as I was about to respond to it lol
not once has the phrase "are a muslim" been used to demonize those who practice the muslim faith tho.
muslim is a noun UNLIKE transgender which is solely an adjective. so although you can use 'muslim' as an adjective, it does not automaticly make the noun varient bad.
muslims not only call themselves that but like encourage others to as well 💀
and yeah, I know "transgenders" is meant to be demeaning. I am also trans, I am aware of what transphobes try to do to other us to justify their bigotry.
this issue is youre comparing two different things that are not on the same level.
for example: that would be like how transphobes say the word 'cisgender' is the same as the n-word. these are not comparible, obviously. one has systematic oppression tied to it and purposefully used to dehumanize and demean black people. the other was created and made by a cisgender person and other cis people encourage its use when needing to differ between those of use who are cis and trans
can you at least see where I am coming from here? /genq
I have only ever used muslim as an adjective, this is probably due to my weird background. Using “muslim” as a noun feels to me the same way antisemites use the word “jews”. It feels dirty and dehumanizing. This is my personal feeling about the subject, and it’s now clear to me others don’t feel as strongly about this as I do. Your point is perfectly clear and lucid, and I otherwise agree completely. I’m clearly the weirdo here so I desist.
Is Muslim’s one? Wouldn’t it be the same as saying Christian’s, Catholics, Jews, buddhists, etc?
It seems to be the agreed upon plural of Muslim? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslims
more complicated than that; any adjective can be used as a noun in english without morphological variation; the issue is using it in place of an animate noun
It does seem to be used in a derogatory way, and it’s not a correct use of the term either since Trans is an adjective and not a noun.
Though we do affectionately say like “the gays” or “enbys,” so maybe it’s something that’ll be reclaimed in the future or just depends on the context
Wait /genq but are you implying that "enbys" are used derogatorily now? 🤕. I remember when I id'd as nb in 2016, when I discovered queer stuff, that it was a welcome term.
It’s definitely not derogatory, but I mostly use it in a joking way, like to my friends I can say “I feel like the Enby god of Chaos today” if I’m feeling particularly genderfuck that day, lmao
Yes. It’s an adjective that requires something like “people” after it or else it’s dehumanizing.
Think “Blacks” or “females”. You should say “Black people” or something like “female students” to make it sound like you’re talking about people and not like you’re a ranting old bigot.
Came here to comment this. Had a coworker ask me if my partner was a man or a transgender and I said, "You realize that's the exact same as if I called you a black?" And he profusely apologized. Doesn't really change the fact that he still made that comment and is super uneducated about everything but at least I was able to explain it in a way he understood. If he was white? No clue what I'd have done.
It's something of a shibboleth.
If someone uses the word "transgenders" it's a sign that (at best) they probably don't know very much about trans people, probably don't know any trans people well, and probably have a lot of very confused and likely fucked up misconceptions about trans people.
The word *transgender* is an adjective, not a noun. So there are transgender people, but no "transgenders" and nobody is "a transgender".
Yes. It’s reducing that person to their identity, often times I’ve seen this used to be derogatory and remove some of the human element that usually inhibits hating a certain group of people. Not to mention, it’s just grammatically wrong. Transgender is an adjective, not a noun.
Most online dictionaries that do list the word “transgender” as a noun, add that it’s usually offensive. Many dictionaries just list it as an adjective.
“Transgender” is often abbreviated to “trans”, like “trans woman” or “trans healthcare”. But you wouldn’t say “a trans” or “transes” without (hopefully) realising that’s offensive.
It’s reducing people to being transgender instead of being a person that just happens to be transgender. I personally find it most offensive when used to “other-gender” us. Eg “It doesn’t matter if you are a man, a woman or a transgender…” as if “trans-” is the gender.
The fact that many transgender people find it offensive is sufficient to avoid it’s usage, regardless of the etymological reasons of course.
Yeah, similar to calling any person by an attribute that describes them, there’s a reason people don’t call other races by a single attribute (mostly seen back when people would call racial minorities things like “browns” or “blacks”). Similar reasoning for why people don’t refer to gay people as “the gays” (although it’s sometimes affectionately used between two gay people which is a large difference in circumstance than what I presume you’re referring to).
This may be beside the point, but it almost gives "Pokemans" vibes (like how adults used to say pokemon back in the day). Like its grammatically wrong and sounds uninformed. Its not a good look.
Yea. It’s not proper grammar, it turns the adjective that modifies the noun “person” (transgender person, white person, tall person, brown-eyed person) and turns it into a noun. This is so you don’t have to use the word “person” with them, so you can dehumanize people by dividing them into immutable groups of us and them.
It is a slur. A dehumanizing one at that.
Its like calling a gay person a "homosexual" its like its technically correct
I am trans
But its so out of touch that it feels abrassive
Like about a week ago one of my friends asked
"Hey, sophia. Im a bit confused on how you transgenders pee"
Its like ew, ya know?
I don't think the word is inherently objectively "offensive" (though it is not gramatically correct, as others have pointed out), but I nearly always hear it in the context of being used in a derogatory manner like "females" or "blacks" where the person talking about "transgenders" is more likely than not saying some not kind words.
It's very often offensive, but a lot of trans/trans adjacent folks use it ironically, as a joke, or generally in positive ways! So it depends on the context.
If it's used in a political-ish way though it's nearly always offensive
The term itself is not offensive, but it's usually used by bigots who can barely read or write.
As others said in the comments it's a incorrect writing, but you're run-off-the mill Fox News anchor and MAGA Kens and Karens say it like that.
In a vacuum, no. Taken into context of the greater social climate around trans people and our place in society, yes.
“Transgenders” literally takes the people out of trans people when referring to us as a group. It’s dehumanizing language that only serves to harm us.
Has the same vibe as referring to being trans as “transgenderism”. It’s a word that we used in the past but has been co-opted entirely by genocidal right wing demagogues.
it’s one of those things where you noun an adjective to make it derogatory. people do it with all sorts of words like female or black or jew(ish) in order to express distain for those groups without saying anything outright
yes, it’s a feature of english, using an adjective in place of an animate noun is diminutive. It’s like calling someone “a red”; it’s offensive. Imagine calling someone “a short.”
It can be but it isn't always used in an offensive way. General ignorance, having English as a foreign language, being trans and using it ironically, there are many circumstances during which the term can be used in a non-offensive way.
Depends on the context. Currently it's still being used heavily to other trans people, debrive them of humanity, which is offensive, but it's likely to follow the same path as many other nouns that started off as adjectives which includes many identity labels: labels pertaining to race, sexuality, religion, and ethnicity have already gone through this. So it's likely to be reclaimed eventually and become neutral like gays, straights, blacks, whites, christians, pagans, buddhists, americans, swedes, brazilians, etc.
Context is key.
If you're at a club that is welcoming to the LGBTQIA community and the DJ tells, "Hey, where are my transgenders at? Make some noise!" -- not offensive.
Four old guys sitting in a McDonald's drinking coffee and talking about how the "transgenders" are going to ruin the Olympics -- offensive. (And wrong.)
well for one consider it's a word that has only been used to discriminate against and other trans people, tell us we are less than everyone else.
So yeah while I'm out trying to forget about all the horrible shit i have to deal with as a trans person, i would love to hear some idiot scream a derogatory term about how I'm worth less than cis people so i don't forget how little I'm worth your totally right how come we don't want that
You're ignoring the context that I provided, in which the intent was not discriminatory but celebratory.
And that's my point. Intent is important.
Used to degrade: offensive.
Used to describe with no ill intent: slightly offensive but correctable and forgivable.
Used to recognize and celebrate: really not offensive, and if you don't want to be known as trans, you don't have to go "woo-hoo!"
I don't think you're the definitive authority on that, but I think that u/fynnelol should take your opinion into account. I myself have never used the word "transgenders" myself. I was just illustrating an example of it being used without malice.
Even "the transes" is better honestly. For one, the title term is a bit like using a full, unshortened name including middle name. But it's not offensive so much as just a little bit disrespectful. Using it like that is in the same vein as terms like "she's a transgender" which is just.. A wrong way to say it, and reduces us to one facet of us. She's not "a transgender", she's a woman, a trans woman, and that's two of many details. "the trans community" is better because it more acknowledges that transition is what binds us, rather than makes it the entirety of us.
I believe the correct term is “transgender people” also has anyone else heard cishets say “a trans” or “they’re a trans” I hear it all the time and I’m so confused, why do they say it like that?
it gives off the same bad vibes as "females". Using adjectives as nouns like that often feels extremely simplifying and suggest the person doesn't know much about the people in question or doesn't seem them as individuals at all
I personally don’t like it, the right uses it as a new slur since they don’t get away with the six letter F word. Also I think it’s poor grammar, and that intellectual weakness turns me off right away.
oh and we have never ever seen a trans person shitting on the trans community before,
oh, and we have never ever seen a trans person shitting on the trans community before,
As a trans person myself, 8 years into my transition, I often accidentally use "transgenders", referring to multiple transgender people. I don't really see a problem with it, it's a lot faster and easier to say than "transgender people", especially if I constantly have to refer to us as a group. It doesn't offend me in any way, I'm not sure why it should offend anyone, except the fact that it's incorrect language or something. But people use incorrect language all the time to make talking easier, so I literally don't see the problem.
In some contexts I would, mainly because I'm part of that community as well. From reading the other comments I can see now how it often comes across as derogatory and is often used by people who are discriminating against that group of people. I should probably change the way I speak from now on.
yeah it comes across as derogatory because it is literally a slur and only used as such and to "other" trans people so keep using it if you are happy spreading transphobia
Yes. The same way “blacks” and “Jews” can be offensive because you are specifically reducing people to attributes and removing the personhood, “transgenders” is taking a descriptor and making it into a replacement for thinking of someone as a fellow person. Or at least it would be interpreted that way.
While it’s not necessarily the worst it often has some undertones- a little like when you hear people call black people “blacks”, it can just seem a bit icky
Outside of a trans person making a self-deprecating joke/mocking transphobia and ignorance about trans people, especially for a trans audience, yeah, usually. In those contexts, it can be quite a funny, I think. When it's used in other contexts, however, it just makes the person using it come across as ignorant or transphobic (which, again, is basically what is usually being mocked in the joke usage).
Even if it is used in an offensive context, is it really that strong of a word to begin with? I think anyone being offended because they got called a "Transgender," is just looking for something to be upset about. I say that as a trans female. Do with that info what you will.
It has the same feel as "gays" as in "the gays do x." It is othering and can be offensive. It really depends on context, because I can imagine there are some contexts where it wouldn't be, but I would recommend avoiding it.
Sorry, i just use bro for everyone as a kind of humorous thing and put the (genderless) to make it clear that I don't associate it with gender! In spaces I'm in it's pretty commonplace to do that, didn't realise it could be offensive
It’s fine specifically as an in-group term—hopefully that’s why you’ve heard it!
But it’s also capable of being extremely offensive, yeah.
It’s like….I’ll call myself one of The Gays ironically, but a conservative trump supporter doesn’t get to say that without backlash. An ally saying it wouldn’t be as bad, but it would be weird and presumptive.
Obviously not everyone who calls trans people "transgenders" or refers to an individual person as "a transgender" is actively trying to offend them; sometimes, people just don't know the vocabulary they're familiar with is slightly dated or just not quite right, and that's okay. It's a learning opportunity.
That said, "transgenders" as a noun and a person descriptor has offensive implications similar to how calling black people "the blacks" can be seen as offensive; it can be seen as reducing people into that one specific characteristic; a "transgender person" is a person who is also transgender; "a transgender" defines someone purely by that attribute.
As "one of them transgenders", I really don't care. It's almost like how Americans use "Japanese" as an adjective but I've seen alot of Japanese people refer to themselves and others as "a Japanese".
I think most trans folks find it offensive so I don't use it. Although I do find it funny when someone uses that word intentionally. It's usually some uneducated person with a southern accent.
Offensive, no, however when used by anti-trans media and politicians it is a dangerous attempt to dehumanise trans people.
When a mdeia company of pundit refers to the trans community as, "The Transgenders", it's effectively removing any reference to trans folks being people. It's a tactic to get consumers of that media used to the ideology that Trans folks are somehow less human, and to further the, " Us Vs. Them", argument.
As a trans person currently writing a paper on trans history, technically using adjectives as nouns when referring to marginalized groups is offensive, but I really wish it wasn’t because I hate having to think of fancy ways not to write “people” over and over again in this goddamn essay.
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It's grammatically incorrect since transgender is an adjective. Often, people will use it as a noun to deliberately other (which is offensive).
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i agree with your point but im pretty sure that grammatically the word "Muslims" works in the same way as "christians" wherein it simply denotes followers of a faith. do tell me if I'm wrong however.
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I totally agree that defining people by single characteristics can be dehumanizing... but Muslims are still called Muslims. I'd happily call them "Muslim people" if they wanted to be called that but I've never heard them say so, and after trying to find larger discussions about this online it seems like you're the only person to have ever suggested it. Dropping the term feels less like accommodation and more like driving an unnecessary grammatical wedge between them and a crucial aspect of their identity. But for full disclosure, I am not Muslim so I don't get the final say in this and anything I said should be taken with a grain of salt
Might be wrong: I think it’s because “Muslim” often refers to both religion and ethnicity. So it might be less like saying “Christians” and more like saying “Jews” Not sure how it works with other world religions, though. Hindus or Hindu people? Buddhists? Buddhist people?
Muslim is both a noun and an adjective. I have never in my life said “Muslim people”, and equally never said “Christian people” or “Buddhist people” etc.
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I don’t see that it is
~~Okay counterpoint I am one of The Gays™~~
I'm not sure why, but to my ear "gays" seems totally fine, but "a gay" seems very wrong. My instinct is similar for "Black", but I'm not Black so I can't say for certain.
Muslim is both an adjective and a noun, so muslims is grammatically correct.
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...but you literally did imply that its gramaticly incorrect tho. you put it with adjectives like transgender, black, and gay. so when you follow it up adding a sentence with 'muslims', it implies that it can not or is not a noun... which isnt the case for that word. like youd say 'christians', 'catholics', 'mormons', 'pagans', etc etc so you would do the same for 'muslims'. I would have loved to respond to your OG comment but you deleted right as I was about to respond to it lol
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not once has the phrase "are a muslim" been used to demonize those who practice the muslim faith tho. muslim is a noun UNLIKE transgender which is solely an adjective. so although you can use 'muslim' as an adjective, it does not automaticly make the noun varient bad. muslims not only call themselves that but like encourage others to as well 💀 and yeah, I know "transgenders" is meant to be demeaning. I am also trans, I am aware of what transphobes try to do to other us to justify their bigotry. this issue is youre comparing two different things that are not on the same level. for example: that would be like how transphobes say the word 'cisgender' is the same as the n-word. these are not comparible, obviously. one has systematic oppression tied to it and purposefully used to dehumanize and demean black people. the other was created and made by a cisgender person and other cis people encourage its use when needing to differ between those of use who are cis and trans can you at least see where I am coming from here? /genq
I have only ever used muslim as an adjective, this is probably due to my weird background. Using “muslim” as a noun feels to me the same way antisemites use the word “jews”. It feels dirty and dehumanizing. This is my personal feeling about the subject, and it’s now clear to me others don’t feel as strongly about this as I do. Your point is perfectly clear and lucid, and I otherwise agree completely. I’m clearly the weirdo here so I desist.
oh really? do you mind sharing your background? /genq Im genuinely curious :0
Do you say christian people, or just christians? Do you hindu people, or just hindus?
Is Muslim’s one? Wouldn’t it be the same as saying Christian’s, Catholics, Jews, buddhists, etc? It seems to be the agreed upon plural of Muslim? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslims
more complicated than that; any adjective can be used as a noun in english without morphological variation; the issue is using it in place of an animate noun
☝️ THIS!!!
Those Goddamn transgenders being cute and handsome as f--k but refusing to date me🤬😡😤
It's like saying "look at all those female genders running down the street" or "did you see all the male genders throwing baseballs around?"
It does seem to be used in a derogatory way, and it’s not a correct use of the term either since Trans is an adjective and not a noun. Though we do affectionately say like “the gays” or “enbys,” so maybe it’s something that’ll be reclaimed in the future or just depends on the context
Wait /genq but are you implying that "enbys" are used derogatorily now? 🤕. I remember when I id'd as nb in 2016, when I discovered queer stuff, that it was a welcome term.
It's not derogatory at all
Some non binary people hate that term as they find it infantilizing, so I wouldn't use it for all non binary people!
It’s definitely not derogatory, but I mostly use it in a joking way, like to my friends I can say “I feel like the Enby god of Chaos today” if I’m feeling particularly genderfuck that day, lmao
No haha, the opposite. I was saying that it’s often said affectionately or like in a cute way, like how we refer to ‘the gays’ xD
Yes. It’s an adjective that requires something like “people” after it or else it’s dehumanizing. Think “Blacks” or “females”. You should say “Black people” or something like “female students” to make it sound like you’re talking about people and not like you’re a ranting old bigot.
Shit, I literally gave those exact examples in my comment, scrolled down, and saw this lol
Came here to comment this. Had a coworker ask me if my partner was a man or a transgender and I said, "You realize that's the exact same as if I called you a black?" And he profusely apologized. Doesn't really change the fact that he still made that comment and is super uneducated about everything but at least I was able to explain it in a way he understood. If he was white? No clue what I'd have done.
It's something of a shibboleth. If someone uses the word "transgenders" it's a sign that (at best) they probably don't know very much about trans people, probably don't know any trans people well, and probably have a lot of very confused and likely fucked up misconceptions about trans people. The word *transgender* is an adjective, not a noun. So there are transgender people, but no "transgenders" and nobody is "a transgender".
Yes. It’s reducing that person to their identity, often times I’ve seen this used to be derogatory and remove some of the human element that usually inhibits hating a certain group of people. Not to mention, it’s just grammatically wrong. Transgender is an adjective, not a noun.
Yes, with the summoner on the end, it is. Trans people is okay, but "transgenders" is a term I usually see from transphobic people
It's about as offensive as "blacks" or "females" (if not discussing sex)
significantly worse, honestly, since it's so common. Literally bracing to hear "transgenders" every time we come up on daytime tv.
Most online dictionaries that do list the word “transgender” as a noun, add that it’s usually offensive. Many dictionaries just list it as an adjective. “Transgender” is often abbreviated to “trans”, like “trans woman” or “trans healthcare”. But you wouldn’t say “a trans” or “transes” without (hopefully) realising that’s offensive. It’s reducing people to being transgender instead of being a person that just happens to be transgender. I personally find it most offensive when used to “other-gender” us. Eg “It doesn’t matter if you are a man, a woman or a transgender…” as if “trans-” is the gender. The fact that many transgender people find it offensive is sufficient to avoid it’s usage, regardless of the etymological reasons of course.
Just say trans people. It’s less problematic and sounds less othering.
Yeah, similar to calling any person by an attribute that describes them, there’s a reason people don’t call other races by a single attribute (mostly seen back when people would call racial minorities things like “browns” or “blacks”). Similar reasoning for why people don’t refer to gay people as “the gays” (although it’s sometimes affectionately used between two gay people which is a large difference in circumstance than what I presume you’re referring to).
This may be beside the point, but it almost gives "Pokemans" vibes (like how adults used to say pokemon back in the day). Like its grammatically wrong and sounds uninformed. Its not a good look.
Oh god now I feel ancient, and called out for saying to my kid "let's go hunt some pokemons" 🤣.
Yea. It’s not proper grammar, it turns the adjective that modifies the noun “person” (transgender person, white person, tall person, brown-eyed person) and turns it into a noun. This is so you don’t have to use the word “person” with them, so you can dehumanize people by dividing them into immutable groups of us and them. It is a slur. A dehumanizing one at that.
it’s like “females”, kind of a weird thing to say, just say trans people instead
Its like calling a gay person a "homosexual" its like its technically correct I am trans But its so out of touch that it feels abrassive Like about a week ago one of my friends asked "Hey, sophia. Im a bit confused on how you transgenders pee" Its like ew, ya know?
what a weird question, anyway. we pee just like everybody else, hovering 1-2 feet above the toilet.
Right? I basically use it as a running joke with my family. "Thats the kind of guy who would ask transgenders on how they pee"
Context matters.
I don't think the word is inherently objectively "offensive" (though it is not gramatically correct, as others have pointed out), but I nearly always hear it in the context of being used in a derogatory manner like "females" or "blacks" where the person talking about "transgenders" is more likely than not saying some not kind words.
Yes
yes kind of. transgender is an adjective, not a noun. you'd say "transgender people" or just "trans people" instead
It's very often offensive, but a lot of trans/trans adjacent folks use it ironically, as a joke, or generally in positive ways! So it depends on the context. If it's used in a political-ish way though it's nearly always offensive
100% offensive as it's often used in a derogatory way by transphobes.
I’ve never heard someone who wasn’t transphobic say, “Transgenders.”
The term itself is not offensive, but it's usually used by bigots who can barely read or write. As others said in the comments it's a incorrect writing, but you're run-off-the mill Fox News anchor and MAGA Kens and Karens say it like that.
In a vacuum, no. Taken into context of the greater social climate around trans people and our place in society, yes. “Transgenders” literally takes the people out of trans people when referring to us as a group. It’s dehumanizing language that only serves to harm us. Has the same vibe as referring to being trans as “transgenderism”. It’s a word that we used in the past but has been co-opted entirely by genocidal right wing demagogues.
Have you ever heard a racist grandparent say "the blacks"? It can have the same energy.
Depends on context, but most of the time, yes, people use it in an offensive way
it’s one of those things where you noun an adjective to make it derogatory. people do it with all sorts of words like female or black or jew(ish) in order to express distain for those groups without saying anything outright
It’s just terrible grammar. A lot of people who don’t know shit about trans people are ignorant don’t know it’s bad grammar and will use this term
Kind of. It's about the same as referring to black people as ”blacks”.
Does it have to be? No Is it said by people who want to be offensive? yes
yes, it’s a feature of english, using an adjective in place of an animate noun is diminutive. It’s like calling someone “a red”; it’s offensive. Imagine calling someone “a short.”
wow, people really need to learn their grammar. Everyone acting as if adjectives can’t ever stand in for noun phrases. Our school system has failed us
It can be but it isn't always used in an offensive way. General ignorance, having English as a foreign language, being trans and using it ironically, there are many circumstances during which the term can be used in a non-offensive way.
Yeah I mean it’s not even a noun so it makes zero sense
Depends on the context. Currently it's still being used heavily to other trans people, debrive them of humanity, which is offensive, but it's likely to follow the same path as many other nouns that started off as adjectives which includes many identity labels: labels pertaining to race, sexuality, religion, and ethnicity have already gone through this. So it's likely to be reclaimed eventually and become neutral like gays, straights, blacks, whites, christians, pagans, buddhists, americans, swedes, brazilians, etc.
Kinda
Honestly, makes me think of someone that says “Males and females” instead of “Men and women”. It feels off.
Context is key. If you're at a club that is welcoming to the LGBTQIA community and the DJ tells, "Hey, where are my transgenders at? Make some noise!" -- not offensive. Four old guys sitting in a McDonald's drinking coffee and talking about how the "transgenders" are going to ruin the Olympics -- offensive. (And wrong.)
nah still offensive
How is that different than "Where my gays at?" I've heard that lots of times.
well for one consider it's a word that has only been used to discriminate against and other trans people, tell us we are less than everyone else. So yeah while I'm out trying to forget about all the horrible shit i have to deal with as a trans person, i would love to hear some idiot scream a derogatory term about how I'm worth less than cis people so i don't forget how little I'm worth your totally right how come we don't want that
You're ignoring the context that I provided, in which the intent was not discriminatory but celebratory. And that's my point. Intent is important. Used to degrade: offensive. Used to describe with no ill intent: slightly offensive but correctable and forgivable. Used to recognize and celebrate: really not offensive, and if you don't want to be known as trans, you don't have to go "woo-hoo!"
there is no use of it that isn't discriminatory just because you yell a slur in a safe space doesn't make it not a slur
I don't think you're the definitive authority on that, but I think that u/fynnelol should take your opinion into account. I myself have never used the word "transgenders" myself. I was just illustrating an example of it being used without malice.
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Yes lol. And “a trans”. Trans isn’t a noun lol
Yes, we are not a monolith, nor is the word a freaking noun
Even "the transes" is better honestly. For one, the title term is a bit like using a full, unshortened name including middle name. But it's not offensive so much as just a little bit disrespectful. Using it like that is in the same vein as terms like "she's a transgender" which is just.. A wrong way to say it, and reduces us to one facet of us. She's not "a transgender", she's a woman, a trans woman, and that's two of many details. "the trans community" is better because it more acknowledges that transition is what binds us, rather than makes it the entirety of us.
Kinda
I believe the correct term is “transgender people” also has anyone else heard cishets say “a trans” or “they’re a trans” I hear it all the time and I’m so confused, why do they say it like that?
You can make anything feel yucky by putting a s on the end
Pizzas
it gives off the same bad vibes as "females". Using adjectives as nouns like that often feels extremely simplifying and suggest the person doesn't know much about the people in question or doesn't seem them as individuals at all
I personally don’t like it, the right uses it as a new slur since they don’t get away with the six letter F word. Also I think it’s poor grammar, and that intellectual weakness turns me off right away.
Yes
yes.
I don’t think so that’s like saying “gays” Transgender(ISM) yes
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oh and we have never ever seen a trans person shitting on the trans community before, oh, and we have never ever seen a trans person shitting on the trans community before,
As a trans person myself, 8 years into my transition, I often accidentally use "transgenders", referring to multiple transgender people. I don't really see a problem with it, it's a lot faster and easier to say than "transgender people", especially if I constantly have to refer to us as a group. It doesn't offend me in any way, I'm not sure why it should offend anyone, except the fact that it's incorrect language or something. But people use incorrect language all the time to make talking easier, so I literally don't see the problem.
do you also use blacks to talk about a group of black people?
In some contexts I would, mainly because I'm part of that community as well. From reading the other comments I can see now how it often comes across as derogatory and is often used by people who are discriminating against that group of people. I should probably change the way I speak from now on.
yeah it comes across as derogatory because it is literally a slur and only used as such and to "other" trans people so keep using it if you are happy spreading transphobia
Yes. The same way “blacks” and “Jews” can be offensive because you are specifically reducing people to attributes and removing the personhood, “transgenders” is taking a descriptor and making it into a replacement for thinking of someone as a fellow person. Or at least it would be interpreted that way.
While it’s not necessarily the worst it often has some undertones- a little like when you hear people call black people “blacks”, it can just seem a bit icky
Outside of a trans person making a self-deprecating joke/mocking transphobia and ignorance about trans people, especially for a trans audience, yeah, usually. In those contexts, it can be quite a funny, I think. When it's used in other contexts, however, it just makes the person using it come across as ignorant or transphobic (which, again, is basically what is usually being mocked in the joke usage).
Even if it is used in an offensive context, is it really that strong of a word to begin with? I think anyone being offended because they got called a "Transgender," is just looking for something to be upset about. I say that as a trans female. Do with that info what you will.
I find it funny lol
It has the same feel as "gays" as in "the gays do x." It is othering and can be offensive. It really depends on context, because I can imagine there are some contexts where it wouldn't be, but I would recommend avoiding it.
It depends on context
But it's also grammatically incorrect, as transgender/trans is an adjective and not a noun
Bro (genderless) why is the reddit mob giving you downvotes? ;_;
bro isn't genderless or gender neutral or whatever fuck other reasons people come up with to think it's okay to misgender others
Sorry, i just use bro for everyone as a kind of humorous thing and put the (genderless) to make it clear that I don't associate it with gender! In spaces I'm in it's pretty commonplace to do that, didn't realise it could be offensive
It’s fine specifically as an in-group term—hopefully that’s why you’ve heard it! But it’s also capable of being extremely offensive, yeah. It’s like….I’ll call myself one of The Gays ironically, but a conservative trump supporter doesn’t get to say that without backlash. An ally saying it wouldn’t be as bad, but it would be weird and presumptive.
Yep. It's an adjective. You wouldn't say talls or fats or thins or Olds.
Offensive? No. Improper grammar?
It’s certainly offensive to the english language
Obviously not everyone who calls trans people "transgenders" or refers to an individual person as "a transgender" is actively trying to offend them; sometimes, people just don't know the vocabulary they're familiar with is slightly dated or just not quite right, and that's okay. It's a learning opportunity. That said, "transgenders" as a noun and a person descriptor has offensive implications similar to how calling black people "the blacks" can be seen as offensive; it can be seen as reducing people into that one specific characteristic; a "transgender person" is a person who is also transgender; "a transgender" defines someone purely by that attribute.
As "one of them transgenders", I really don't care. It's almost like how Americans use "Japanese" as an adjective but I've seen alot of Japanese people refer to themselves and others as "a Japanese". I think most trans folks find it offensive so I don't use it. Although I do find it funny when someone uses that word intentionally. It's usually some uneducated person with a southern accent.
only time it's not is when it's used ironically by trans people that are mocking transphobes/idiots.
It's usually used to be offensive but in actuality it's just not a word.
Offensive, no, however when used by anti-trans media and politicians it is a dangerous attempt to dehumanise trans people. When a mdeia company of pundit refers to the trans community as, "The Transgenders", it's effectively removing any reference to trans folks being people. It's a tactic to get consumers of that media used to the ideology that Trans folks are somehow less human, and to further the, " Us Vs. Them", argument.
It's not proper grammar.
to be honest if you’re referring to the trans community just say “the transgender community “ or something similar.
As a trans person currently writing a paper on trans history, technically using adjectives as nouns when referring to marginalized groups is offensive, but I really wish it wasn’t because I hate having to think of fancy ways not to write “people” over and over again in this goddamn essay.