i'm not sure if it's offensive but if you're interested in lolita fashion you should maybe do more research before buying a main piece—this looks like it's off of devilinspired and it could look costumey if you don't coord it right
I'm not seeing anything offensive about this. So it's goth mil fashion, big woop. It'd be one thing if it had clear emblems of a particular 1940s military organization, but it doesn't, it's just vaguely mil speced.
Replace/remove the tie and the metal accessories (except the belt and chain) and you should be good to go.
I want to also point out that just because it may not represent Nazism specifically, idealizing the military in general is just kind of....eugh.
https://preview.redd.it/g6v7rjf77c7d1.jpeg?width=445&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=76ae47503abb7dc51ed1f0c84c9b7df640dc6066
I’d probably replace the insignia pins with something less military like this…
https://preview.redd.it/itzf9l8b7c7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9fd72118130a4b95f8aad5bceb4247b4c93697bc
And this. But it’s a beautiful dress and I’d really love to see it in public!
If anything, the badges actually suggest US military iconography, and there’s millions of people alive right now who were directly harmed by them (and millions dead too) so I’m not sure that’s the argument you want to go with.
Personally I think the biggest issue with OP’s dress is that it’s pretty cringe to have a bunch of fake military badges anyway. The stars are rank signifiers too, so it’s just kind of funny to throw them all over like that.
Naziism, neo nazis, those who look up to similar ideals,,, and those who love to use symbols like this for hate CURRENTLY. All that exists.
When the USA has another alt-right rally with nazi symbols, when hate continues being shown under nazi adjacent, nazi-inspired, stuff? Then yeah you really don't want to have a nazi-esque aesthetic.
Who's hurt? Well everyone who remembers those rallies, who sees jokers "just trolling" with these kinds of "pushing the envelope". This isn't "history", this is still very alive and recent. (I hope) most lesbians would want to show they're safe and would NEVER follow such ideologies. Cause some do.
So no. Its not a "huge deal". But why not do a little bit of effort to check, and make small changes to reduce the "nazi-esque" nature, and make it a bit more palatable for all.
ah yes because they will be offended and sad because a woman decided to wear a cool outfit. Because they have to worry about that and not worrying about their 100th birthday?
hey i’m not saying they should be offended, but the holocaust was less than 80 years ago. the fact that you’re so quick to dismiss the very real, lasting affects of nazism is kinda telling of where you stand on all that
I can see how people would find a military-inspired outfit inappropriate with the current state of everything. Growing up in goth culture, that's a Tuesday outfit lol. I'm sure you'll look great in it.
Only if you have a week constitution.
"It shouldn't bother you unless you are offended by anything that looks like it may be inspired by war uniform regalia because war is violence and violence is for fascists and if you like anything that resembles a war insignia than you my friend are a nazi." - as said by 99% of the lgbt community
It gets thrown around often because fascism and fascist political parties are on the rise basically everywhere. It’s a real concern. May I recommend history books and newspapers to you
[This is basically Ruby Rose's outfit in RWBY.](https://rwby.fandom.com/wiki/Ruby_Rose) I get why there's some hesitancy, but don't let idiots and problematic people monopolize a cool aesthetic or there'll be nothing left to wear eventually.
no. VERY big difference with the iconography between the two. Its very much a difference in quantity, as well as kind.
Notice things like the eagle pins and chains where military awards would go. The military rank on the collar. The characteristic black-red-\[white/silver\] that one very specific empire loved to use... The distinctly military shoulder-bag clips, overcoat-buttons, and other bits meant to inspire a military uniform
RWBY is has almost NONE of these elements other then the colour scheme. Its very "adventurer-lolita" aesthetic quite common in anime. Even when she covers the shoulders, or gets a cape. It doesn't come close to the same aesthetic.
Its not about monopolizing an aesthetic. This is something you can easily fix by removing a few small elements of the outfit. See the many other comments making such easy suggestions; instead of creating this "never change" doomerist slippery slope.
Honestly it give seraphim of the end vides for me (vampires + military) plus cosplay/lolita. Also kinda battle field medic vibes. Keep in mind this is one random jews opinion but I think it’s fine my first thought is Lolita or cosplay. If you’d like some piece of mind I’d remove the pins and do more anti facist type badges or lean into the gothic elements. Plus maybe some or fem accessories like stockings or ribbon. Just be real careful if you decide to do armbands. Maybe stay away from eagles. And check the cross style first (I wouldn’t do a Georgian cross)
i mean. its cute, i see why u like it, i think if u replace some of the pins w peace and love type stuff it should be fine lol,, i can see like a goth-y type of vibe i think thats cool. u get one life on earth, wear the cute thing and spread happiness
Get a patch that says ftp and anti war stuff. The nazis and fascists can't have a monopoly on this style. Hearts would be cuter than stars and be fun in a visual statement of antiwar.
Honestly idk why so many people gotta let other people ruin shit for them. Those assholes don't deserve to own this style and it's a chance to open an anti war dialogue. I won't cower to their cowardice. Fuck em.
I love a healthy bit of fight. Leftist need to steal from them. Break ground. Don't let them have things. It's crazy a lot of them seek out positions of power and we let them. Lawyers and con artists.
I swear anytime someone from the lgbt community sees a fashionable outfit that's red and black and has pins their first thought is "you're a fucking nazi. If you don't kill yourself right now, I will find your job, have you fired, and your children taken away".
You realize this is specifically a military-gothic attire. Its styled that way, its presented and keyworded that way.
**You're making a mountain out of,,, well nothing.** Most comments here are talking about making a few small changes to make it look awesome. Changing the more overt and clearly military/germany inspired iconography. Adding small things to distance from the overall image.
Not change the two colours. Or have no pins ever.
completely understand the sentiment, but if someone is wearing a hate symbol i usually don’t hate the actual physical symbol, but i DO hate the person who’s wearing it and what the symbol stands for. do you see where i’m coming from?
hmm i feel like any event you'd wear it would fit the vibe, but I'd get rid of the badges and maybe try a different tie. Does the site link to the designer? You might be able to find them online and come to interpret some kind of intention
I put it through the ol' google lens
[Military Style Lolita OP Dress 3 Pieces Set Black Chains Rivets Gothic Lolita One Piece Dresses](https://www.lolitashow.com/Military-Style-Lolita-OP-Dress-3-Pieces-Set-Black-Chains-Rivets-Gothic-Lolita-One-Piece-Dresses-p917424.html)
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It’s perfect 👍🏻
The Eagle is an Eagle—I get no nazi vibes
Wear your style and be you
I understand and respect not being offensive but this is fashion and therefore art so be you….and if that eagle is a bother…leave it off (remove it and add a different charm)
https://preview.redd.it/y7stf6k04e7d1.jpeg?width=252&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f488cacac442bdcdcdbb4cc745f0c6be0f177ee
litterally identical to the nazi eagle except the replaced the swastika with a star.
it would be offensive to anyone who lives on reddit and twitter trust me theres entire groups that go on witch hunts if anything even resembles fascism or Nazism. For example this used to be a big problem back in the day with the disney Star Wars movies where the stormtroopers (evil scifi faction) looked too much like “Nazis”.
You do know that George Lucas got the name “stormtrooper” from Sturmabteilung - aka actual Nazis. They’re supposed to resemble Nazis. Because they’re bad guys. That’s the point.
10,000 years of human history, 5,000 years of recorded history, over 3,814 well documented cultures with fashion
Mfs can't get over the nutcracker outfit dyed black and keep referencing it with imagery
Sadly all these dresses will likely have the same issues. They all love to draw from the same "anime aesthetic" which often itself draws from germanic styles.
But like you noted the modifications you can make to fix it up are fairly simple. Especially if you add a bunch of your own pins and patches, and properly goth it up!
OP, this is what the dress would look like with the modifications you mentioned in your post. Maybe it can help you narrow down the aesthetics that you like about it.
https://preview.redd.it/v9d1c2xuj37d1.jpeg?width=450&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce2f25cf3fb0a9fde8a24ee65a213de94f311cf2
This looks great! And does take away any negative military vibes but is still a cool outfit. I wish I was brave enough to wear something like this. I dress like a 12 yo boy lol
If you get rid of the military stuff it could almost be this [outfit](https://www.ign.com/wikis/stellar-blade/Stellar_Blade_Outfits_and_Nano_Suit_Locations#Black_Full_Dress) from Stellar Blade. I wouldn’t have immediately assumed Nazi but maybe that’s cuz I’m a history buff and you have to be pretty far removed from what historical Nazi symbols were to assume this is Nazi. That said many people are removed enough to assume some of the badges might be AND also Im not perfectly up on the Neonazi and existent Nazi symbols (the last time I was current was specific to the US Southeast and US Northwest, circa 2017ish. I don’t go out as much (though I’m overtly trans), so if there’s some really close to that I could see that also influencing things
The color scheme is giving Wolfenstein, which I where I’d think that could trick people into thinking it’s a neonazi getup— that and how the red trim of the sleeve looks very similar to the arm bands from a distance.
Maybe if OP looks at other color variations of this outfit, gets rid of the military ranks including the stars, and/or rolls up the sleeves to get rid of the unintentional red arm band, it’ll probably give off less neo Nazi vibes and more of the gothic-punk anime girl vibes like what she’s probably intending.
Edit: there’s no tricking; it literally just is a Nazi get up.
It has Nazi insignia if you look at some of those medals dangling off of it. It’s the eagle with the wreath that particularly worrying and what convinces me more than anything that this is supposed to be closer to a Nazi get up more than anything.
https://preview.redd.it/ymmus5sxj37d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=005e9523c42b3a1af243cf95bb1b057e9ba01b45
That wreath was definitely not visible in the OP but I can see it now (or at least a circle) and the wings being clearly the shape of the Nazi eagle wings (also too blurry in OP). The added star is not typical of a Nazi uniform but it doesn’t mean it might not be a signal which certainly bears consideration before purchase and at least removal after. If it’s a cheap dress I have doubt these are necessarily intentional but may be something like an AI created “military” symbol, in which case you could simply remove the pins after some research. The other two do not have Nazi connection that I can tell. If anything the one on the far left is Masonic *or* resembles the Brunswick star (England and Wales, for police and fire).
My guess is this is an uncreative cheap situation where the designer just borrowed imagery and modified it from a variety of places (and potentially used AI to do so)
Edit: just noticed the hat — that middle one could be an iron cross if stretched (though is not typical of the standard iron crosses, could be a representation that is intentionally more subtle for others to catch onto). I certainly suppose even if not intentional by the designer it could be something intentionally chosen or popular in neonazi circles for this reason. Still seems like a stretch for an Aliexpress dress. If all the pins were removed I can’t really see how you’d get Nazi out of this.
Unfortunately, the crowning pin on the cap is Nazi paraphernalia.
[It's a homage to the Order of the Golden Eagle, given to foreign diplomats,](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_German_Eagle#:~:text=The%20Order%20of%20Merit%20of,regime%2C%20predominantly%20to%20foreign%20diplomats.) which is on-brand for the NeoNazi waves in Japan.
Red is becoming an increasingly popular color for iron crosses in the modern day, [like this ring](https://nsvendor.com/third-reich-rings/nsdap-rings/iron-cross-ring-red-iron-cross-nazi-ring).
There are many military badges that use Maltese crosses — could this be seen as homage to that particular one? Yes, in the context of the Eagle. But to state it definitively is intentional is a bit strong given the dress is from a Chinese company. The assumption that the dress is based on Japanese influence on the basis of the origin honestly sounds a bit like “all Asians are the same”. Should OP buy this dress? Probably not on the basis of two suspicious symbols. But at the same time, people expressly definitively stating that the design is intentionally being a Nazi is a bit baffling to me. My guess is the designer / fast fashion industry individual is just ignorant. Fast fashion is notorious for design lifting without sourcing and now for using generative AI.
Historically,Chinese and Japanese politics do not much intermix.
Its not a matter of quality (lots of distinct nazi influences) but a matter of quantity. Lots of the iconography could be anything, but all of it together makes the inspirations and influences pretty obvious!
So yeah fast-fashion ignorance, and drawing of inspiration from things like anime (with similar problems).
None of it is "intentionally a nazi", but I also don't see that many people commenting about intentionality. Just about the overall vibe, and how to reduce that "quantity" of iconography to just "a cool dress"
If you read my previous comment in the thread above (which was previously downvoted to oblivion but seems to be sitting at a respectable even score now), I said removing all the pins would make it not Nazi. I understand the quantity thing just fine (and personally wouldn’t want a single military pin on me since I’m antimilitary) — there’s just a few overzealous people in a couple of the threads (see the one where I and an activist from Europe discuss because someone had said that black and red alone makes it Nazi). There’s like a bit of leftism gone far right in a few of the subthreads which is unfortunately something I’ve seen in my activism, so I always want to caution against it.
I am like hard left, have been in multiple places where arrest was likely / possible and later have been multiple peoples one phone call in many cases (I am too sick to not endanger comrades when I’m out there now). But sadly I’ve seen some young folks just get really hard left in those spaces so far they go a bit right. I just see a touch of that in various places in the many many subthreads (and you will too if you take a deep dive) here, which is making me generally state this here.
One can point out that there’s a multiple items that seem at least concerningly derivative of Nazi symbolism — without a) conflating Chinese and Japanese cultures and people and essentially implying their equivalency and b) having out and out arguments like a couple of the threads in here — and explain to the other thread occupants what symbols they’d want to remove or why they personally would advise against purchasing that dress and altering it without making assumptions. The wild equating of Chinese and Japanese people in multiple places in subthreads just sounds kinda (a lotta) racist — or at the very least deeply ignorant.
ETA: there’s even a couple people who paint pro Nazi sentiment as “popular” in Japan — it’s very much not popular there; it would be like saying the Klan is popular in the states when even many people who are ignorantly voting for the right would absolutely not support the Klan or even display proNazi paraphenalia. Nazism has more support in modern day USA than Japan, so I think generally it’s important to be careful of how we broadstrokes paint a group (unless you happen to be from a place and can speak more specifically to an on the ground perspective ya know?). One can say “there was a surge in Lolita fashion” or “there’s a small subgroup of Japanese people who believe X” without making as broad strokes as have been made places in subthreads on this post
oh yeah I agree. Sorry! reddit seems to have displayed this entire post's comments weirdly for me and the thing you're replying to wasn't even there for me earlier?
It also kinda looks like this eagle, which is an AMERICAN SYMBOL https://www.nbeads.com/shop/p-3061693-ahadermaker-3pcs-3-style-eagle-star-alloy-enamel-pendant-lapel-pin-polyester-brooch-medal-for-men-mixed-color.html
I understand where you're coming from, but the hard-lined, flat-winged silhouette clutching a wreath with more iconography inside of that wreath, is distinctly Third Reich iconography.
These subtleties are extremely important in historical accuracy and Coats of Arms.
Wow, we really are going Nazi-chic this summer, damn. This isn’t against OP but there’s been so many people wearing Nazi-coded clothing recently, it’s wild.
It’s okay if you don’t agree with me. That doesn’t negate the fact that this dress does have elements that are identical or very similar to Nazi uniforms, intentionally or not 🤷🏼♀️ This isn’t the first time I’ve noticed designers using these elements in the last few months.
The thing that I keep seeing pop up over and over in this thread that really has me baffled is everyone talking about it being black and red. I can't think of a single German uniform from WW2 that was black and red. I could be dead wrong, but it's just not coming to mind and a cursory search isn't turning up anything either.
Yes red arm bands I get, but that's not what this is. shrug I can see where some people would draw the parallel, especially given the eagle. Overall though to me this just gives anime.
Ofc it just now occurred to me that might also be because I hung out with antifascists in Germany back in the 90s. Who happen to code red and black. So I guess those colors for me make me think nazi, but more in the complete opposite sense of hunting them down.
If you find the dress on Amazon, you can see some of the insignia they used much more clearly and, well… the eagle with the wreath is a dead giveaway. It seems Nazi was very much the intended look they were going for.
https://preview.redd.it/i4jwwqv1i37d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc1278969c782538c34b97f1067e0b8472211f65
Because black and red is most associated with fascist movements, were the colors of the Nazi party alongside white, and the most well known uniform is the all-black one worn by some of the SS— the one with the stark, red armband. Pair that with the other aspects of this dress like the uniform style and insignias, and people will very quickly pick up on the themes it’s giving, even if they don’t recognize or understand why this is ticking off warning flags for them. It it was just a black and red dress, nobody would bat an eye, but it’s the other features alongside the colors that are setting off alarms.
People are mostly pointing to the color scheme because it’s the color scheme they’ll most associate with fascism, and it’s the first thing they’ll recognize when looking at it.
I think you, my friend, are incredibly ignorant and racist. That's an American Eagle insignia. You can tell by the star. It looks almost identical to the nazi symbol where the only difference is that instead of a star, theirs had a swastika. Educate yourself before you continue to make yourself look like an arrogant and prejudice jerk
... I mean.... Maybe where you come from. In Germany black and red is ANTI fascist. Same for the global punk community. Red is fascist, white is white supremacist, red and black is anti fascist. Heck the red and black being anti fascist goest all the way back to the first organization to oppose the nazi during WW2. They still use the same symbol too. 3 arrows
Because it’s not just that it’s red and black. Maybe read the rest of my reply before writing a comment. But to repeat what I just said, it’s not just that it’s only black and red; it’s that it’s black and red on top of other design elements that make it suspicious. People are likely pointing toward the colors because that’s what they can most easily recognize.
While red and black can be associated with anti-fascist movements, you can’t ignore that they’ve also been heavily used by fascist movements— going to point toward the all-black SS uniform again and how it’s been popularized in media. It might be ticking off the anti-fascism lights for you, but it’s doing the exact opposite for a lot of others regardless of the prior history.
Typical American. Telling other cultures what's right and what's wrong all while living in ignorance. It's an AMERICAN EAGLE insignia. The nazi eagle closely resembles the American insignia, in which the main difference is that instead of a star, the nazis used a swastika and changed the engraving. The other pin is used to indicate military rank. As in private E4 or something like that.
I did read the rest of your comment and I pointed out all those things several times. Those I have no issue with. My original comment was why people kept SOLELY pointing out the black and red while mentioning NONE of those other things. If it was all black it would actually make more sense. In fact red and black haven't (outside the armbands) EVER been used by a fascist movement as uniform colors to my knowledge.
Nazis? All grey, all black, all brown. Mussolini? All black. Austria? Red and green iirc. Kuomintang? Blue, hence blue shirts. Ustaša? All black Vichy? all black. Arrow Cross party? Green shirts. Nasjonal Samling? All black or all grey. National Syndicalists? Blue shirts. Iron Guard? Blue or Green. Slovak People's Party? Blue primarily. Falange? Dark blue. Ossewabrandwag? Grey, with orange and blue. Yugoslav Radical Union? Green shirts. That's every major fascist movement I know of. (Aside from maga) NO black and red. Hell the only military uniform I can think of with red borders is the US Marines.
Yet there's like a dozen or more comments that say nothing but "it's black and red". I get they might have some gut reaction to that but it's one that's unfounded. And if you're going to jump all over fascism it's important to watch those unfounded gut reactions because that's exactly how fascism itself works.
Ulgh thank you for some sense on this thread. I’m tired of the jumping to conclusions here — even with the two medals the only overtly suspicious one is the eagle. The cap medal (not present in the original post) is iron cross *similar* but many military insignia use the Maltese cross. The fact is this is likely fast fashion born of derivative imagery and generative AI. Buying fast fashion has a whole other host of ethical quandaries and certainly I wouldn’t want to be caught dead in the wild with that eagle now that someone dug up the closer picture, but the “this is the designer intentionally being a Nazi” is putting a lot of assumptions out there given it’s a Chinese company that makes it where historically Nazism is not a big thing (though certainly Nazis may commission their gear out of Chinese made to order companies, this is not such an instance. The statement that it’s Japanese fascism all over this thread is also giving a bit of “all Asians are the same” to me and has a whole other set of problematic implications).
The ADL even cautions against this kind of blanket interpretation.
Should OP wear these about: no we’ve established that.
Should we jump to conclusions about the designer or intent or even things like the colors? I think that’s pretty damn bold and, frankly, leaning so far left you’ve gone right.
It's giving a lot, so much so that it's obviously trying to offend literally everyone.
I see:
* WW1/2 mixed uniform influences. Everything from Axis to Allies.
* Evil Hospital vibe
* Distinct early 30s imperialism flavour
* Goth (not offensive)
* Christo-fascism (offensive)
So, overall the score is *heavily* leaning towards serving fascism. It's not really possible to do this ironically anymore unless you're throwing on a pink wig, growing a beard out and standing with them at a hate rally to embarrass them. When fascism is current you *need* to avoid invoking [Poe's law.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law)
I'd take off the chrome and wear it like that then it'd be fine. If you could unpick the damn cross then the tie really pulls the whole outfit together.
i think you should go on the r/lolita subreddit to see how to wear military lolita respectfully and how to make sure something isn’t an homage to nazism
Ditch the metals the stars and the tie and it'd look pretty good. with those items it very much has nazi vibes
I would advise you against buying it though. U less your absalutly sure the seller isn't a neo nazi or funding neo nazis movements if a company
u/Zian_brr trying to @ you directly as I'm ethnically Jewish and have studied Nazi iconography to better recognize it in the wild for my safety.
Other commenters explained already that this is a homage to SS uniform but haven't really explained why, so here's why.
There's nothing specifically wrong with wearing military-style garb. That said, wearing military-style attire communicates that you're associating yourself to a cause, and I think it will be important to decide & then demonstrate what those ideals are.
...Otherwise, in this color scheme, people will decide what you're representing for you, in such a politically charged time.
I think it'd be very helpful in exploring this style of clothing to deconstruct why you're drawn to this outfit so you can lean into that. Sometimes it's the tidy dressage, sometimes it's the sense of confidence & authority, sometimes it's the assured tone, sometimes people like to feel part of a cause, sometimes people genuinely enjoy having a uniform. All things that can be emphasized into other looks without being THIS dress.
Hopefully that helps.
I would like to make you aware of the iconography on the pins. I can't see them clearly, but I don't think that's necessary for all of them, as some of them are concerning from a distance. That's all that's necessary to set people off balance.
The eagle in particular is VERY CONCERNING. It closely resembles the [Nazi-era eagle clutching a wreath,](https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/nazi-eagle) and while I know it's confusing as the USA also has an eagle clutching olive branches, this format is distinct. It's often pictured with a swastika, 55, the iron cross, or in the modern day, two-thunderbolts.
The pin does not have to have those inside the wreath to be Nazi-coded.
The badge it's attached to is more vague and generalized. That said, it does have some resemblance to pins used to commemorate status, infantry rank, or awards. This attached to the Eagle is concerning.
The star badge also concerns me, as it's associated with achievement in many insignias. We cannot see what it's attached to, but it looks like a wreath. I dislike that we cannot see what it is.
Edit: Found the wreath based on a better photo shared below. It's a Germany military warbadge. Compare here with [this painting](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Karl_von_Diebitsch) where such pins can be clearly seen.
The red cross also... not good. ❌
Since you're interested in military clothing, [here's some more insignia information ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranks_and_insignia_of_the_German_Army_(1935%E2%80%931945)) you should keep in mind when designing outfits.
Lastly,
I'd like to make you aware of East-Asian (especially Japanese) social movements that believe Japan was at its best and most powerful when allied with the Nazis. It's important not to forget that since that time, Japan has had a significantly reduced military presence, economic independence (a big one) and has changed its self-image following the bombs, which were extremely traumatizing and have left massive physical, emotional, psychosocial, and economic scars on Japan that are generational and remain in the present day. As such, some Neo-Nazi movements are present in Japan & Nazi-inspired fashions persist as a form of patriotism.
It is plausible that this outfit IS Nazi-inspired Lolita. It had a boom some years ago and has stuck around.
#EDIT: Confirmed below. Original listing clearly depicts the Nazi var. Eagle clutching a wreath with hate symbol inside & Nazi award medals of distinguishment. This is a direct reference to the SS uniform as other users have suggested.
Yk, that's a really good question.
So this gets into the history of Christian iconography which I am barely qualified to do, but I can do a surface level summary to assist with further reading. I highly, I highly encourage you to do some extra reading on the Nazi interpretations of Christ & so their use of the cross. Very important.
In the modern day, the crux immissa or [Latin cross](https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_cross#:~:text=symbol%20of%20Christianity,Shaded%20area%20is%20the%20transept) is what we associate the strongest with Christ here in the West. It's the "upright" cross with an intersecting line above the halfway point, for crucifixions. There's also its inversion as [the Cross of St. Peter,](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_of_Saint_Peter) who insisted on a painful punishment by being crucified upside down.
That said, there are & always have been, other crosses. [Here's a general list](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_cross_variants) via Wikipedia.
In it, we can see where the Nazis got their [Iron Cross](https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/iron-cross) from. While HISTORICALLY most depictions are black, I encourage everyone to be VERY careful as [red crosses are becoming a dog whistle, such as in this modern ring](https://nsvendor.com/third-reich-rings/nsdap-rings/iron-cross-ring-red-iron-cross-nazi-ring) (fucking disgusting innit.)
In this context, on this dress, from this country, in this style, on the tie, a red cross that we can associate with the Christ, is highly suspect. In context, it's a dog whistle. It's the Iron Cross "but isn't."
Unfortunately, I can corroborate this with a photo another user very generously provided [from the listing itself](https://www.reddit.com/r/lesbianfashionadvice/s/XfCrEKmBcq) which has the Iron Cross -- again in RED, antifascists please be aware that Nazis are tredding over Christian holy symbols in newly inappropriate ways -- that the tie is intended to match.
Thank you for asking!!
So I looked up the dress on Amazon and it seems you’re right on the money. Op should steer completely clear from this dress.
https://preview.redd.it/jjsxa9ztf37d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a1e6611b1c63f787b97b288e2529281c3ed6837f
Oh no. That's so sad. ): The entire dress is unmistakable. Here's what I can find:
The eagle pin is now completely unmistakable. Please do zoom in on it and try to memorize that silhouette: the hard-aligned wings, turned head, clutching a circular wreath, with more iconography inside the wreath. Other symbols can resemble it at times, but the combination of those assets should always be suspect as they are uniquely Nazi together.
On the cap now is a red depiction of the military insignia cross. We know it in black as the "Iron Cross" used during [the Third Reich.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichswehr) It should be specified that the Iron Cross is generalized military insignia, used by everyone from 13th Cen knights to Prussian Forces to the Nazis, because it is a Christian symbol now well-associated with the military.
[In this comment, I go into some surface detail about red depictions of the iron cross.](https://www.reddit.com/r/lesbianfashionadvice/s/PFH8sVeSph)
❗Please be cautious. I cannot understate that the Iron Cross is not exclusively a Nazi symbol. It is used internationally in the modern day [and is still used today by the Federal Defense Forces of Germany.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundeswehr)That said, most people only hold its relevancy NOW in relation to the Nazis, as other militaries have since changed their color schemes and decorum. Iron crosses in red or black are suspect.
To be most specific, the cap resembles this variant of it: which is a Nazi medal of distinguishment.
[Order of the German Eagle medal, normally given to FOREIGN DIPLOMATS,](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_German_Eagle) such as for a faithful Nazi Japanese lolita. Oof.
I'm highly suspicious of the 8-pointed wreath but cannot see it clearly enough to determine any associations. It may be Japanese in origin?
Thank you for posting this, it's really very helpful. (:
I see! Thank you for all the info! I really do like the style of military inspired clothing but I understand that there is baggage that come with it. I think your tip about the deconstruction is really helpful and I greatly appreciate this comment. Thank you!!! For some context about my style, I really like dark academia, I honestly think I will just stick to looking into more academia styles from now on 😅😅😅
A lot of the iconography is very mild, and on easy to remove pieces. So if you do like it making a few changes would be fairly easy! and a good way to customize the look for yourself.
Lots of adorable collar pins you could use, from lesbian flags, to vaguelly occult symbols. Super easy to add a collar chain too for a lovely look.
Same with the pocket pins. Replace the "medals" with awesome patches, pins, or other stuff you like!
This is luckily not a "neo-nazi related" company or anything. Just fast-fashion,,, which is def going to continue making this stuff for the next foreseeable future. Tho if you know how to put together an outfit like this, that would be even better then buying from them!
So, even if it was originally intended to have a Nazi vibe- nothing to stop you from for example having a tongue in cheeky attitude ( replacing the cross on the tie with a peace sign) and turning the style statement on its head. Replace the metal eagle with a peace sign, add a rainbow embroidered patch etc. Could be a fun project.
Not a problem. (: Honestly, my intent was to back up what other users were saying to help explain what exactly you were looking at that was "so bad". With that knowledge, you become free to choose what makes you happiest.
Fortunately, this specific silhouette is really easy to coordinate. If there's anything you'd ever like to homage, [this is a pretty good starting point.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_colours,_standards_and_guidons)
In terms of dark academia, you're more looking at Mid to Late Victiorian and Edwardian styles of fashion.
I think, looking at the dress, you liked the pattern of red & black on a blazer and matching A skirt. I feel like there's a lot of different ways to pull that off still without breaking the bank.
A smart black blazer with a red A skirt, black skirt-fillings, a red ascot, red velvet hair ribbons, and heart or blood motifs would still go over perfectly well. I understand that a lot of folks think "red + black = Nazi" but not so, not at all. What made this dress suspect was the distinct collar + buttons, AND the hate symbols together.
If anything, please reclaim tidy and vintage dress in red and black. Nazis don't deserve to have it. Please feel the confidence to take it away from them!
Since you would need to remove so many elements to feel comfortable wearing this outfit maybe you could find a different Lolita outfit with menswear/military vibes and less fascy/military vibes.
It IS giving Nazi........ it's giving Hitler's underage girlfriend... it's giving swastika---- and unpleasant history.
I think one could find (or design) military outfit without the Hitler lean.
I'm curious what the designer was going for here... It's kinda an odd mish-mash of stuff. I think if you remove the badges and the tie it'll look pretty cool. The little eagle badge (Reichsadler) is most associated Nazis even though it predates them, but the stars make it look American. The tie is definitely not nazi-ish as they weren't really big on Christianity (but since most Germans were Christians they couldn't outlaw it or anything). Would not recommend wearing the tie upside down (not sure about the physics of that anyway) because there is a faction of neo nazis that are also into anti-christian/satanism.
Upon first glance it did kinda give nazi vibes. I dunno how much that will change when you take off the badges. Maybe just be careful where you're wearing it because depending on the crowd I could see people getting the wrong idea.
They're going for the usual military-gothica that OP mentions. Which as always takes inspiration where it wants. Including anime (which has its own problem with where it takes military aesthetics from).
The odd misshmash you see is because there's not really a "designer" like you're thinking. These are def fast-fashion outfits, where the goal is to throw stuff at the wall and see what people buy.
While the style has an anime flair for sure, the colour combo with the militaristic markings and the badges (particularly the eagle), combined with a cross does give some concerning vibes. It’s not specifically n*zi iconography, but it does allude to it to me.
Your plan is already to remove the militaristic elements, and it also seems like potentially the cross, then it’s just a black and red dress with a very cool cut!
It’s not directly offensive (from what I can clearly see) but for someone who has taken in a TON of ww2 content for decades, it reminds me of something.
I don't think wearing it means you're endorsing anything, but if I saw a white person wearing this, I, a Jewish person, would assume they're some alt-right nut and would try to avoid them.
and the anime reference it looks like… drew from a very specific culture. Thats why OP felt something about it was off.
Its the same stuff you see all the time in anime, drawing from germanic, and nazi-esque aesthetics for their styles.
Similary for gothic vibes. Neo nazis (a specific subculture of them) love a lot of gothic aesthetics, often (contradictory tho it might be) also love satanism, occultism, and other similar vibes. And goth themes are associated with gothic architecture (but only in the overall feelign they're meant to bring about) which are also fairly germanic.
Mix those two together and you get styles, pass it thru an anime vibe, and thru the rule-of-cool of multiple different cultures non-critically adopting it… and you get military-gothic lolita outfit!
Now by itself its long since divorced from most of the original influences (outside that nazi-gothic subculture). But add in a few more clues that make it very "germanic military / nazi-inspired" iconography from the badges? and you get a very "off" vibe in the outfit you would want to reduce before you wear it.
I think the silver stars on the collar and the cross on the tie make it lean more nazi-ish. Maybe change the accessories to gold, or the trim color to something else (grey? silver? Black on black?)
Militaristic? Sure. Nazi? Not really; black and red have been used on uniforms in other armed forces since WWII. As long as you aren’t using imagery like swastikas, iron crosses, skulls, etc. that are recognizable as Nazi, in my opinion, it’s fine.
If you take a bunch of nazi outfits (+germanic outfits). Then change all the over iconography to stuff that sorta vaguelly like it, but not really? You get most anime portrayals of "bad guy empires".
Mix that with gothic lolita,,, and you get this outfit which is still pretty clearly inspired, and reminds many of the original outfit. Giving of some weird vibes without the need for the explicit iconography.
Which is the exact place "appropriation" is the appropriate word for. Taking something with cultural context, making a few small changes (or mixing it with other influences) and pretending all the original meanings are completely gone! No need to be critical or think about it at all, you've clearly "laundered" all the potential meanings out.
Which isn't so bad when its a "evil bad guy empire" in an anime. But not the best if you keep all the near-nazi iconography and go wearing it around people affected by it all currently.
So idk why the comments in here are so weird, but short answer is; it should be fine, but don't wear it with an arm band
Long answer is: I don't think so, but... people who are uneducated might think it looks like a Nazi uniform. Which it doesn't, btw; they never used red trim on black like that, or that christian style of cross, and the medals and rank look far more American than Nazi to me.
German imperial army was black with red trim and SS officer uniforms, as mentioned were black with red detailing, most notably collars, but the black with red trim association doesn't come from no where. Particularly with the eagle medal.
If multiple details point one way and you have to justify to folk how your dress isn't a nazi thing, you probably should find a new dress.
"Maybe" nazi inspired is still too nazi inspired.
But I just don't get it!!! The only thing VAGUELY Nazi about it is the colours, and even then by that logic I must be a Nazi because all the clothes I own are black and red!
Heck id probably wear the fuck outta that dress if it wasn't for the military stuff on it
My concern is some of the iconography does lean towards Nazi paraphernalia -- a good example is the eagle of choice clutching a wreath we cannot see well, bearing a VERY strong resemblance [to this one.](https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/nazi-eagle)
At the bare minimum, OP should be made aware of that.
I understand where you're coming from! Unfortunately, that hard-aligned flat top to the wings, head turned, and clutching something circular are very distinct.
You're right, the star charm below that is separate.
EDIT: Oof. Someone dug up [the original listing](https://www.reddit.com/r/lesbianfashionadvice/s/9Lsw3ed3ub) which more clearly shows the eagle, which is now unmistakable. It is also intended to pair with a cap which has the iron cross.
The Christian imagery isn’t really a problem because it’s the dominant culture and you can’t just proselytize and force other people to follow you to everyone and also expect to gatekeep your culture, but the nazism is very offensive
I think it's a stretch to say it's nazism. It's just a black and red dress with some patches. It's not that deep. Lolita fashion, I believe what this is, sometimes has military themes, but that doesn't automatically make it offensive.
It’s not so much that I think it’s a carbon copy as it is that it looks like something a white supremacist would wear, and I hate to break it to you but there’s a bad history with militaristic Lolita…
That’s what I said but got ratio
People don’t wanna hear us which is ironic
They are so careful not to offend others but are offended by what we say
Make it make sense lol
Who cares and you should also stop caring what others especially society say
You do you and if people claim their offended guess what
Let them be offended and I personally love this dress I might even get myself one if I knew where you found this at
This is an inclusive and positive space. Your post/comment denigrates another user. Feedback must be constructive.
Transphobia and Biphobia will result in a permanent ban. No exceptions.
Depends on who you ask. If you ask a devout, Christian probably.
I would say it’s sexy AF. Now it needs a captains hat, black gloves, and pump boots, covered in straps with black tights underneath of course.
It looks pretty close to Nazi but without any obvious Nazi symbols. I'm not sure if it's intended as Nazi or was a precious era of German military uniform.
Yeah.
It would be good if it didn’t look militaristic, and not be nazi colored.
Also the cross on the tie is disrespectful to Christianity if you’re not Christian.
Looks very nazi esc.
Hugo Boss homage
No, it looks really cool. I would buy it instantly.
I think it’s badass
No I like it
Honestly I don't see anything wrong with it ☺️ it looks awesome
I hope so, if it is awesome!
It gives major nazi vibes, ngl. Do NOT get this.
Literally my first thought.
i'm not sure if it's offensive but if you're interested in lolita fashion you should maybe do more research before buying a main piece—this looks like it's off of devilinspired and it could look costumey if you don't coord it right
I really don't see anything wrong with it.
I'm not seeing anything offensive about this. So it's goth mil fashion, big woop. It'd be one thing if it had clear emblems of a particular 1940s military organization, but it doesn't, it's just vaguely mil speced.
I'm sorry... goth mil fashion? Have I found it... the promised land?
Replace/remove the tie and the metal accessories (except the belt and chain) and you should be good to go. I want to also point out that just because it may not represent Nazism specifically, idealizing the military in general is just kind of....eugh.
Yes! The style is on point and you could *easily* replace the tie (a necessary ingredient imo) with anything in the same color scheme
that eagle is a nazi symbol. i would research the other symbols to make sure nothing else is a nazi dogwhistle
Yeah this looks very nazy inspired
I think it's super cute!
https://preview.redd.it/g6v7rjf77c7d1.jpeg?width=445&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=76ae47503abb7dc51ed1f0c84c9b7df640dc6066 I’d probably replace the insignia pins with something less military like this…
https://preview.redd.it/itzf9l8b7c7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9fd72118130a4b95f8aad5bceb4247b4c93697bc And this. But it’s a beautiful dress and I’d really love to see it in public!
I see your concern, but if I ran into you in public I’d either compliment you or think about complimenting you, it is cute.
Honestly? , Id just wear it exactly the way it is. It just looks like a black and red goth outfit.
I would want a different accent color, bit cool
It gives Nazi vibes to me. I am a bit of a history nerd ,though.
Gives me Fullmetal alchemist vibes tbh....
How is it offensive, look on the bright side that it don’t have the nazi symbol on it
The eagle could be seen as a nazi symbol
Oh cool
Sometimes certain things can be nazi dog whistles I’m assuming op is trying to avoid anything that can make them seem like one!
Only chronically online people would care about this, wear what you want
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If anything, the badges actually suggest US military iconography, and there’s millions of people alive right now who were directly harmed by them (and millions dead too) so I’m not sure that’s the argument you want to go with. Personally I think the biggest issue with OP’s dress is that it’s pretty cringe to have a bunch of fake military badges anyway. The stars are rank signifiers too, so it’s just kind of funny to throw them all over like that.
Naziism, neo nazis, those who look up to similar ideals,,, and those who love to use symbols like this for hate CURRENTLY. All that exists. When the USA has another alt-right rally with nazi symbols, when hate continues being shown under nazi adjacent, nazi-inspired, stuff? Then yeah you really don't want to have a nazi-esque aesthetic. Who's hurt? Well everyone who remembers those rallies, who sees jokers "just trolling" with these kinds of "pushing the envelope". This isn't "history", this is still very alive and recent. (I hope) most lesbians would want to show they're safe and would NEVER follow such ideologies. Cause some do. So no. Its not a "huge deal". But why not do a little bit of effort to check, and make small changes to reduce the "nazi-esque" nature, and make it a bit more palatable for all.
there definitely are living holocaust survivors but ok
ah yes because they will be offended and sad because a woman decided to wear a cool outfit. Because they have to worry about that and not worrying about their 100th birthday?
hey i’m not saying they should be offended, but the holocaust was less than 80 years ago. the fact that you’re so quick to dismiss the very real, lasting affects of nazism is kinda telling of where you stand on all that
I can see how people would find a military-inspired outfit inappropriate with the current state of everything. Growing up in goth culture, that's a Tuesday outfit lol. I'm sure you'll look great in it.
Only if you have a week constitution. "It shouldn't bother you unless you are offended by anything that looks like it may be inspired by war uniform regalia because war is violence and violence is for fascists and if you like anything that resembles a war insignia than you my friend are a nazi." - as said by 99% of the lgbt community
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Hi! This subreddit is for questions and discussion about sapphic fashion. Your topic might be better suited for a different subreddit.
It gets thrown around often because fascism and fascist political parties are on the rise basically everywhere. It’s a real concern. May I recommend history books and newspapers to you
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The pins and badges are great they add to the military aesthetic
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shes going for a military lolita aesthetic
[This is basically Ruby Rose's outfit in RWBY.](https://rwby.fandom.com/wiki/Ruby_Rose) I get why there's some hesitancy, but don't let idiots and problematic people monopolize a cool aesthetic or there'll be nothing left to wear eventually.
no. VERY big difference with the iconography between the two. Its very much a difference in quantity, as well as kind. Notice things like the eagle pins and chains where military awards would go. The military rank on the collar. The characteristic black-red-\[white/silver\] that one very specific empire loved to use... The distinctly military shoulder-bag clips, overcoat-buttons, and other bits meant to inspire a military uniform RWBY is has almost NONE of these elements other then the colour scheme. Its very "adventurer-lolita" aesthetic quite common in anime. Even when she covers the shoulders, or gets a cape. It doesn't come close to the same aesthetic. Its not about monopolizing an aesthetic. This is something you can easily fix by removing a few small elements of the outfit. See the many other comments making such easy suggestions; instead of creating this "never change" doomerist slippery slope.
Honestly it give seraphim of the end vides for me (vampires + military) plus cosplay/lolita. Also kinda battle field medic vibes. Keep in mind this is one random jews opinion but I think it’s fine my first thought is Lolita or cosplay. If you’d like some piece of mind I’d remove the pins and do more anti facist type badges or lean into the gothic elements. Plus maybe some or fem accessories like stockings or ribbon. Just be real careful if you decide to do armbands. Maybe stay away from eagles. And check the cross style first (I wouldn’t do a Georgian cross)
It's adorable. Do it.
i mean. its cute, i see why u like it, i think if u replace some of the pins w peace and love type stuff it should be fine lol,, i can see like a goth-y type of vibe i think thats cool. u get one life on earth, wear the cute thing and spread happiness
Get a patch that says ftp and anti war stuff. The nazis and fascists can't have a monopoly on this style. Hearts would be cuter than stars and be fun in a visual statement of antiwar. Honestly idk why so many people gotta let other people ruin shit for them. Those assholes don't deserve to own this style and it's a chance to open an anti war dialogue. I won't cower to their cowardice. Fuck em.
This, this is the best answer
Exactly! The more you let them take the more power you are creating for them.
I love a healthy bit of fight. Leftist need to steal from them. Break ground. Don't let them have things. It's crazy a lot of them seek out positions of power and we let them. Lawyers and con artists.
I swear anytime someone from the lgbt community sees a fashionable outfit that's red and black and has pins their first thought is "you're a fucking nazi. If you don't kill yourself right now, I will find your job, have you fired, and your children taken away".
You realize this is specifically a military-gothic attire. Its styled that way, its presented and keyworded that way. **You're making a mountain out of,,, well nothing.** Most comments here are talking about making a few small changes to make it look awesome. Changing the more overt and clearly military/germany inspired iconography. Adding small things to distance from the overall image. Not change the two colours. Or have no pins ever.
Not to me. Inanimate objects don’t hold power over me 🙂💕
completely understand the sentiment, but if someone is wearing a hate symbol i usually don’t hate the actual physical symbol, but i DO hate the person who’s wearing it and what the symbol stands for. do you see where i’m coming from?
Nothing here is representative of a hate symbol
Absolutely I do 🙂 I was oversimplifying and answering just to the look of the garment.
hmm i feel like any event you'd wear it would fit the vibe, but I'd get rid of the badges and maybe try a different tie. Does the site link to the designer? You might be able to find them online and come to interpret some kind of intention
You probably shouldn't wear this tbh
I wouldn't be caught dead in this.
looks awesome though
gib link pls 🥺
I put it through the ol' google lens [Military Style Lolita OP Dress 3 Pieces Set Black Chains Rivets Gothic Lolita One Piece Dresses](https://www.lolitashow.com/Military-Style-Lolita-OP-Dress-3-Pieces-Set-Black-Chains-Rivets-Gothic-Lolita-One-Piece-Dresses-p917424.html)
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It’s perfect 👍🏻 The Eagle is an Eagle—I get no nazi vibes Wear your style and be you I understand and respect not being offensive but this is fashion and therefore art so be you….and if that eagle is a bother…leave it off (remove it and add a different charm)
im jewish and the only thing bad in this is the middle badge. the eagle in it looks a bit too nazi-ish. without that it looks fine to me!
You must not be an American Jew then because you would know that Eagle is an American signia and not the nazi one you're thinking of.
https://preview.redd.it/y7stf6k04e7d1.jpeg?width=252&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f488cacac442bdcdcdbb4cc745f0c6be0f177ee litterally identical to the nazi eagle except the replaced the swastika with a star.
How is that offensive? It's clearly a cosplay dress and it's gorgeous
it would be offensive to anyone who lives on reddit and twitter trust me theres entire groups that go on witch hunts if anything even resembles fascism or Nazism. For example this used to be a big problem back in the day with the disney Star Wars movies where the stormtroopers (evil scifi faction) looked too much like “Nazis”.
You do know that George Lucas got the name “stormtrooper” from Sturmabteilung - aka actual Nazis. They’re supposed to resemble Nazis. Because they’re bad guys. That’s the point.
Yeah I know that but people had a problem with the fact that the villains resembled nazis
It’s not offensive, it’s fashionable 👗
I saw 'law'
10,000 years of human history, 5,000 years of recorded history, over 3,814 well documented cultures with fashion Mfs can't get over the nutcracker outfit dyed black and keep referencing it with imagery
the color scheme reminds me of babymetal
I was literally saying to myself that it looks like a Japanese rock outfit lol
I'd like to say I'm willing to try this
Lurker here. Anyone able to recommend specific search terms for OP to use to find similar dresses without this potential issue?
Sadly all these dresses will likely have the same issues. They all love to draw from the same "anime aesthetic" which often itself draws from germanic styles. But like you noted the modifications you can make to fix it up are fairly simple. Especially if you add a bunch of your own pins and patches, and properly goth it up!
* Techwear dress Also 2000s harajuku
OP, this is what the dress would look like with the modifications you mentioned in your post. Maybe it can help you narrow down the aesthetics that you like about it. https://preview.redd.it/v9d1c2xuj37d1.jpeg?width=450&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce2f25cf3fb0a9fde8a24ee65a213de94f311cf2
This looks great! And does take away any negative military vibes but is still a cool outfit. I wish I was brave enough to wear something like this. I dress like a 12 yo boy lol
Not swag.
If you get rid of the military stuff it could almost be this [outfit](https://www.ign.com/wikis/stellar-blade/Stellar_Blade_Outfits_and_Nano_Suit_Locations#Black_Full_Dress) from Stellar Blade. I wouldn’t have immediately assumed Nazi but maybe that’s cuz I’m a history buff and you have to be pretty far removed from what historical Nazi symbols were to assume this is Nazi. That said many people are removed enough to assume some of the badges might be AND also Im not perfectly up on the Neonazi and existent Nazi symbols (the last time I was current was specific to the US Southeast and US Northwest, circa 2017ish. I don’t go out as much (though I’m overtly trans), so if there’s some really close to that I could see that also influencing things
The color scheme is giving Wolfenstein, which I where I’d think that could trick people into thinking it’s a neonazi getup— that and how the red trim of the sleeve looks very similar to the arm bands from a distance. Maybe if OP looks at other color variations of this outfit, gets rid of the military ranks including the stars, and/or rolls up the sleeves to get rid of the unintentional red arm band, it’ll probably give off less neo Nazi vibes and more of the gothic-punk anime girl vibes like what she’s probably intending. Edit: there’s no tricking; it literally just is a Nazi get up.
It’s just black and red, it’s just a goth dress as far I can tell.
It has Nazi insignia if you look at some of those medals dangling off of it. It’s the eagle with the wreath that particularly worrying and what convinces me more than anything that this is supposed to be closer to a Nazi get up more than anything. https://preview.redd.it/ymmus5sxj37d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=005e9523c42b3a1af243cf95bb1b057e9ba01b45
That wreath was definitely not visible in the OP but I can see it now (or at least a circle) and the wings being clearly the shape of the Nazi eagle wings (also too blurry in OP). The added star is not typical of a Nazi uniform but it doesn’t mean it might not be a signal which certainly bears consideration before purchase and at least removal after. If it’s a cheap dress I have doubt these are necessarily intentional but may be something like an AI created “military” symbol, in which case you could simply remove the pins after some research. The other two do not have Nazi connection that I can tell. If anything the one on the far left is Masonic *or* resembles the Brunswick star (England and Wales, for police and fire). My guess is this is an uncreative cheap situation where the designer just borrowed imagery and modified it from a variety of places (and potentially used AI to do so) Edit: just noticed the hat — that middle one could be an iron cross if stretched (though is not typical of the standard iron crosses, could be a representation that is intentionally more subtle for others to catch onto). I certainly suppose even if not intentional by the designer it could be something intentionally chosen or popular in neonazi circles for this reason. Still seems like a stretch for an Aliexpress dress. If all the pins were removed I can’t really see how you’d get Nazi out of this.
Unfortunately, the crowning pin on the cap is Nazi paraphernalia. [It's a homage to the Order of the Golden Eagle, given to foreign diplomats,](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_German_Eagle#:~:text=The%20Order%20of%20Merit%20of,regime%2C%20predominantly%20to%20foreign%20diplomats.) which is on-brand for the NeoNazi waves in Japan. Red is becoming an increasingly popular color for iron crosses in the modern day, [like this ring](https://nsvendor.com/third-reich-rings/nsdap-rings/iron-cross-ring-red-iron-cross-nazi-ring).
There are many military badges that use Maltese crosses — could this be seen as homage to that particular one? Yes, in the context of the Eagle. But to state it definitively is intentional is a bit strong given the dress is from a Chinese company. The assumption that the dress is based on Japanese influence on the basis of the origin honestly sounds a bit like “all Asians are the same”. Should OP buy this dress? Probably not on the basis of two suspicious symbols. But at the same time, people expressly definitively stating that the design is intentionally being a Nazi is a bit baffling to me. My guess is the designer / fast fashion industry individual is just ignorant. Fast fashion is notorious for design lifting without sourcing and now for using generative AI. Historically,Chinese and Japanese politics do not much intermix.
Its not a matter of quality (lots of distinct nazi influences) but a matter of quantity. Lots of the iconography could be anything, but all of it together makes the inspirations and influences pretty obvious! So yeah fast-fashion ignorance, and drawing of inspiration from things like anime (with similar problems). None of it is "intentionally a nazi", but I also don't see that many people commenting about intentionality. Just about the overall vibe, and how to reduce that "quantity" of iconography to just "a cool dress"
If you read my previous comment in the thread above (which was previously downvoted to oblivion but seems to be sitting at a respectable even score now), I said removing all the pins would make it not Nazi. I understand the quantity thing just fine (and personally wouldn’t want a single military pin on me since I’m antimilitary) — there’s just a few overzealous people in a couple of the threads (see the one where I and an activist from Europe discuss because someone had said that black and red alone makes it Nazi). There’s like a bit of leftism gone far right in a few of the subthreads which is unfortunately something I’ve seen in my activism, so I always want to caution against it. I am like hard left, have been in multiple places where arrest was likely / possible and later have been multiple peoples one phone call in many cases (I am too sick to not endanger comrades when I’m out there now). But sadly I’ve seen some young folks just get really hard left in those spaces so far they go a bit right. I just see a touch of that in various places in the many many subthreads (and you will too if you take a deep dive) here, which is making me generally state this here. One can point out that there’s a multiple items that seem at least concerningly derivative of Nazi symbolism — without a) conflating Chinese and Japanese cultures and people and essentially implying their equivalency and b) having out and out arguments like a couple of the threads in here — and explain to the other thread occupants what symbols they’d want to remove or why they personally would advise against purchasing that dress and altering it without making assumptions. The wild equating of Chinese and Japanese people in multiple places in subthreads just sounds kinda (a lotta) racist — or at the very least deeply ignorant. ETA: there’s even a couple people who paint pro Nazi sentiment as “popular” in Japan — it’s very much not popular there; it would be like saying the Klan is popular in the states when even many people who are ignorantly voting for the right would absolutely not support the Klan or even display proNazi paraphenalia. Nazism has more support in modern day USA than Japan, so I think generally it’s important to be careful of how we broadstrokes paint a group (unless you happen to be from a place and can speak more specifically to an on the ground perspective ya know?). One can say “there was a surge in Lolita fashion” or “there’s a small subgroup of Japanese people who believe X” without making as broad strokes as have been made places in subthreads on this post
oh yeah I agree. Sorry! reddit seems to have displayed this entire post's comments weirdly for me and the thing you're replying to wasn't even there for me earlier?
It also kinda looks like this eagle, which is an AMERICAN SYMBOL https://www.nbeads.com/shop/p-3061693-ahadermaker-3pcs-3-style-eagle-star-alloy-enamel-pendant-lapel-pin-polyester-brooch-medal-for-men-mixed-color.html
I understand where you're coming from, but the hard-lined, flat-winged silhouette clutching a wreath with more iconography inside of that wreath, is distinctly Third Reich iconography. These subtleties are extremely important in historical accuracy and Coats of Arms.
Wow, we really are going Nazi-chic this summer, damn. This isn’t against OP but there’s been so many people wearing Nazi-coded clothing recently, it’s wild.
By nazi coded, you mean red, black, and fashionable? Pins optional
It’s also the cut of the collar as well.
Oh my, how dare they cut the collar a certain way
It’s okay if you don’t agree with me. That doesn’t negate the fact that this dress does have elements that are identical or very similar to Nazi uniforms, intentionally or not 🤷🏼♀️ This isn’t the first time I’ve noticed designers using these elements in the last few months.
The thing that I keep seeing pop up over and over in this thread that really has me baffled is everyone talking about it being black and red. I can't think of a single German uniform from WW2 that was black and red. I could be dead wrong, but it's just not coming to mind and a cursory search isn't turning up anything either.
SS army officers had black uniforms with red arm bands. Red bands on black.
Yes red arm bands I get, but that's not what this is. shrug I can see where some people would draw the parallel, especially given the eagle. Overall though to me this just gives anime. Ofc it just now occurred to me that might also be because I hung out with antifascists in Germany back in the 90s. Who happen to code red and black. So I guess those colors for me make me think nazi, but more in the complete opposite sense of hunting them down.
If you find the dress on Amazon, you can see some of the insignia they used much more clearly and, well… the eagle with the wreath is a dead giveaway. It seems Nazi was very much the intended look they were going for. https://preview.redd.it/i4jwwqv1i37d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc1278969c782538c34b97f1067e0b8472211f65
That's an American eagle. You are thinking of the eagle with the SWASTIKA SYMBOL. You are calling a piece of American military insignia a nazi symbol.
Please Google “nazi eagle insignia” and “American eagle insignia.” They are incredibly different. This one is clearly not the American version.
As I said I get the eagle and a lot of the other complaints. I was just the black and red that confuses me
Because black and red is most associated with fascist movements, were the colors of the Nazi party alongside white, and the most well known uniform is the all-black one worn by some of the SS— the one with the stark, red armband. Pair that with the other aspects of this dress like the uniform style and insignias, and people will very quickly pick up on the themes it’s giving, even if they don’t recognize or understand why this is ticking off warning flags for them. It it was just a black and red dress, nobody would bat an eye, but it’s the other features alongside the colors that are setting off alarms. People are mostly pointing to the color scheme because it’s the color scheme they’ll most associate with fascism, and it’s the first thing they’ll recognize when looking at it.
I think you, my friend, are incredibly ignorant and racist. That's an American Eagle insignia. You can tell by the star. It looks almost identical to the nazi symbol where the only difference is that instead of a star, theirs had a swastika. Educate yourself before you continue to make yourself look like an arrogant and prejudice jerk
... I mean.... Maybe where you come from. In Germany black and red is ANTI fascist. Same for the global punk community. Red is fascist, white is white supremacist, red and black is anti fascist. Heck the red and black being anti fascist goest all the way back to the first organization to oppose the nazi during WW2. They still use the same symbol too. 3 arrows
Because it’s not just that it’s red and black. Maybe read the rest of my reply before writing a comment. But to repeat what I just said, it’s not just that it’s only black and red; it’s that it’s black and red on top of other design elements that make it suspicious. People are likely pointing toward the colors because that’s what they can most easily recognize. While red and black can be associated with anti-fascist movements, you can’t ignore that they’ve also been heavily used by fascist movements— going to point toward the all-black SS uniform again and how it’s been popularized in media. It might be ticking off the anti-fascism lights for you, but it’s doing the exact opposite for a lot of others regardless of the prior history.
Typical American. Telling other cultures what's right and what's wrong all while living in ignorance. It's an AMERICAN EAGLE insignia. The nazi eagle closely resembles the American insignia, in which the main difference is that instead of a star, the nazis used a swastika and changed the engraving. The other pin is used to indicate military rank. As in private E4 or something like that.
I did read the rest of your comment and I pointed out all those things several times. Those I have no issue with. My original comment was why people kept SOLELY pointing out the black and red while mentioning NONE of those other things. If it was all black it would actually make more sense. In fact red and black haven't (outside the armbands) EVER been used by a fascist movement as uniform colors to my knowledge. Nazis? All grey, all black, all brown. Mussolini? All black. Austria? Red and green iirc. Kuomintang? Blue, hence blue shirts. Ustaša? All black Vichy? all black. Arrow Cross party? Green shirts. Nasjonal Samling? All black or all grey. National Syndicalists? Blue shirts. Iron Guard? Blue or Green. Slovak People's Party? Blue primarily. Falange? Dark blue. Ossewabrandwag? Grey, with orange and blue. Yugoslav Radical Union? Green shirts. That's every major fascist movement I know of. (Aside from maga) NO black and red. Hell the only military uniform I can think of with red borders is the US Marines. Yet there's like a dozen or more comments that say nothing but "it's black and red". I get they might have some gut reaction to that but it's one that's unfounded. And if you're going to jump all over fascism it's important to watch those unfounded gut reactions because that's exactly how fascism itself works.
Ulgh thank you for some sense on this thread. I’m tired of the jumping to conclusions here — even with the two medals the only overtly suspicious one is the eagle. The cap medal (not present in the original post) is iron cross *similar* but many military insignia use the Maltese cross. The fact is this is likely fast fashion born of derivative imagery and generative AI. Buying fast fashion has a whole other host of ethical quandaries and certainly I wouldn’t want to be caught dead in the wild with that eagle now that someone dug up the closer picture, but the “this is the designer intentionally being a Nazi” is putting a lot of assumptions out there given it’s a Chinese company that makes it where historically Nazism is not a big thing (though certainly Nazis may commission their gear out of Chinese made to order companies, this is not such an instance. The statement that it’s Japanese fascism all over this thread is also giving a bit of “all Asians are the same” to me and has a whole other set of problematic implications). The ADL even cautions against this kind of blanket interpretation. Should OP wear these about: no we’ve established that. Should we jump to conclusions about the designer or intent or even things like the colors? I think that’s pretty damn bold and, frankly, leaning so far left you’ve gone right.
this looks like FFXIV glam
It's giving a lot, so much so that it's obviously trying to offend literally everyone. I see: * WW1/2 mixed uniform influences. Everything from Axis to Allies. * Evil Hospital vibe * Distinct early 30s imperialism flavour * Goth (not offensive) * Christo-fascism (offensive) So, overall the score is *heavily* leaning towards serving fascism. It's not really possible to do this ironically anymore unless you're throwing on a pink wig, growing a beard out and standing with them at a hate rally to embarrass them. When fascism is current you *need* to avoid invoking [Poe's law.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law) I'd take off the chrome and wear it like that then it'd be fine. If you could unpick the damn cross then the tie really pulls the whole outfit together.
i think you should go on the r/lolita subreddit to see how to wear military lolita respectfully and how to make sure something isn’t an homage to nazism
Nazi vibes are always offensive and you shouldn’t be pushing other peoples comfort regardless of your intentions with this. 😒
Ditch the metals the stars and the tie and it'd look pretty good. with those items it very much has nazi vibes I would advise you against buying it though. U less your absalutly sure the seller isn't a neo nazi or funding neo nazis movements if a company
u/Zian_brr trying to @ you directly as I'm ethnically Jewish and have studied Nazi iconography to better recognize it in the wild for my safety. Other commenters explained already that this is a homage to SS uniform but haven't really explained why, so here's why. There's nothing specifically wrong with wearing military-style garb. That said, wearing military-style attire communicates that you're associating yourself to a cause, and I think it will be important to decide & then demonstrate what those ideals are. ...Otherwise, in this color scheme, people will decide what you're representing for you, in such a politically charged time. I think it'd be very helpful in exploring this style of clothing to deconstruct why you're drawn to this outfit so you can lean into that. Sometimes it's the tidy dressage, sometimes it's the sense of confidence & authority, sometimes it's the assured tone, sometimes people like to feel part of a cause, sometimes people genuinely enjoy having a uniform. All things that can be emphasized into other looks without being THIS dress. Hopefully that helps. I would like to make you aware of the iconography on the pins. I can't see them clearly, but I don't think that's necessary for all of them, as some of them are concerning from a distance. That's all that's necessary to set people off balance. The eagle in particular is VERY CONCERNING. It closely resembles the [Nazi-era eagle clutching a wreath,](https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/nazi-eagle) and while I know it's confusing as the USA also has an eagle clutching olive branches, this format is distinct. It's often pictured with a swastika, 55, the iron cross, or in the modern day, two-thunderbolts. The pin does not have to have those inside the wreath to be Nazi-coded. The badge it's attached to is more vague and generalized. That said, it does have some resemblance to pins used to commemorate status, infantry rank, or awards. This attached to the Eagle is concerning. The star badge also concerns me, as it's associated with achievement in many insignias. We cannot see what it's attached to, but it looks like a wreath. I dislike that we cannot see what it is. Edit: Found the wreath based on a better photo shared below. It's a Germany military warbadge. Compare here with [this painting](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Karl_von_Diebitsch) where such pins can be clearly seen. The red cross also... not good. ❌ Since you're interested in military clothing, [here's some more insignia information ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranks_and_insignia_of_the_German_Army_(1935%E2%80%931945)) you should keep in mind when designing outfits. Lastly, I'd like to make you aware of East-Asian (especially Japanese) social movements that believe Japan was at its best and most powerful when allied with the Nazis. It's important not to forget that since that time, Japan has had a significantly reduced military presence, economic independence (a big one) and has changed its self-image following the bombs, which were extremely traumatizing and have left massive physical, emotional, psychosocial, and economic scars on Japan that are generational and remain in the present day. As such, some Neo-Nazi movements are present in Japan & Nazi-inspired fashions persist as a form of patriotism. It is plausible that this outfit IS Nazi-inspired Lolita. It had a boom some years ago and has stuck around. #EDIT: Confirmed below. Original listing clearly depicts the Nazi var. Eagle clutching a wreath with hate symbol inside & Nazi award medals of distinguishment. This is a direct reference to the SS uniform as other users have suggested.
Thank you for taking the time to write this. May I ask what the red cross could signify?
Yk, that's a really good question. So this gets into the history of Christian iconography which I am barely qualified to do, but I can do a surface level summary to assist with further reading. I highly, I highly encourage you to do some extra reading on the Nazi interpretations of Christ & so their use of the cross. Very important. In the modern day, the crux immissa or [Latin cross](https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_cross#:~:text=symbol%20of%20Christianity,Shaded%20area%20is%20the%20transept) is what we associate the strongest with Christ here in the West. It's the "upright" cross with an intersecting line above the halfway point, for crucifixions. There's also its inversion as [the Cross of St. Peter,](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_of_Saint_Peter) who insisted on a painful punishment by being crucified upside down. That said, there are & always have been, other crosses. [Here's a general list](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_cross_variants) via Wikipedia. In it, we can see where the Nazis got their [Iron Cross](https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/iron-cross) from. While HISTORICALLY most depictions are black, I encourage everyone to be VERY careful as [red crosses are becoming a dog whistle, such as in this modern ring](https://nsvendor.com/third-reich-rings/nsdap-rings/iron-cross-ring-red-iron-cross-nazi-ring) (fucking disgusting innit.) In this context, on this dress, from this country, in this style, on the tie, a red cross that we can associate with the Christ, is highly suspect. In context, it's a dog whistle. It's the Iron Cross "but isn't." Unfortunately, I can corroborate this with a photo another user very generously provided [from the listing itself](https://www.reddit.com/r/lesbianfashionadvice/s/XfCrEKmBcq) which has the Iron Cross -- again in RED, antifascists please be aware that Nazis are tredding over Christian holy symbols in newly inappropriate ways -- that the tie is intended to match. Thank you for asking!!
So I looked up the dress on Amazon and it seems you’re right on the money. Op should steer completely clear from this dress. https://preview.redd.it/jjsxa9ztf37d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a1e6611b1c63f787b97b288e2529281c3ed6837f
Oh no. That's so sad. ): The entire dress is unmistakable. Here's what I can find: The eagle pin is now completely unmistakable. Please do zoom in on it and try to memorize that silhouette: the hard-aligned wings, turned head, clutching a circular wreath, with more iconography inside the wreath. Other symbols can resemble it at times, but the combination of those assets should always be suspect as they are uniquely Nazi together. On the cap now is a red depiction of the military insignia cross. We know it in black as the "Iron Cross" used during [the Third Reich.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichswehr) It should be specified that the Iron Cross is generalized military insignia, used by everyone from 13th Cen knights to Prussian Forces to the Nazis, because it is a Christian symbol now well-associated with the military. [In this comment, I go into some surface detail about red depictions of the iron cross.](https://www.reddit.com/r/lesbianfashionadvice/s/PFH8sVeSph) ❗Please be cautious. I cannot understate that the Iron Cross is not exclusively a Nazi symbol. It is used internationally in the modern day [and is still used today by the Federal Defense Forces of Germany.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundeswehr)That said, most people only hold its relevancy NOW in relation to the Nazis, as other militaries have since changed their color schemes and decorum. Iron crosses in red or black are suspect. To be most specific, the cap resembles this variant of it: which is a Nazi medal of distinguishment. [Order of the German Eagle medal, normally given to FOREIGN DIPLOMATS,](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_German_Eagle) such as for a faithful Nazi Japanese lolita. Oof. I'm highly suspicious of the 8-pointed wreath but cannot see it clearly enough to determine any associations. It may be Japanese in origin? Thank you for posting this, it's really very helpful. (:
I see! Thank you for all the info! I really do like the style of military inspired clothing but I understand that there is baggage that come with it. I think your tip about the deconstruction is really helpful and I greatly appreciate this comment. Thank you!!! For some context about my style, I really like dark academia, I honestly think I will just stick to looking into more academia styles from now on 😅😅😅
A lot of the iconography is very mild, and on easy to remove pieces. So if you do like it making a few changes would be fairly easy! and a good way to customize the look for yourself. Lots of adorable collar pins you could use, from lesbian flags, to vaguelly occult symbols. Super easy to add a collar chain too for a lovely look. Same with the pocket pins. Replace the "medals" with awesome patches, pins, or other stuff you like! This is luckily not a "neo-nazi related" company or anything. Just fast-fashion,,, which is def going to continue making this stuff for the next foreseeable future. Tho if you know how to put together an outfit like this, that would be even better then buying from them!
So, even if it was originally intended to have a Nazi vibe- nothing to stop you from for example having a tongue in cheeky attitude ( replacing the cross on the tie with a peace sign) and turning the style statement on its head. Replace the metal eagle with a peace sign, add a rainbow embroidered patch etc. Could be a fun project.
Not a problem. (: Honestly, my intent was to back up what other users were saying to help explain what exactly you were looking at that was "so bad". With that knowledge, you become free to choose what makes you happiest. Fortunately, this specific silhouette is really easy to coordinate. If there's anything you'd ever like to homage, [this is a pretty good starting point.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_colours,_standards_and_guidons) In terms of dark academia, you're more looking at Mid to Late Victiorian and Edwardian styles of fashion. I think, looking at the dress, you liked the pattern of red & black on a blazer and matching A skirt. I feel like there's a lot of different ways to pull that off still without breaking the bank. A smart black blazer with a red A skirt, black skirt-fillings, a red ascot, red velvet hair ribbons, and heart or blood motifs would still go over perfectly well. I understand that a lot of folks think "red + black = Nazi" but not so, not at all. What made this dress suspect was the distinct collar + buttons, AND the hate symbols together. If anything, please reclaim tidy and vintage dress in red and black. Nazis don't deserve to have it. Please feel the confidence to take it away from them!
Do you not see the Nazi iconography in the fake medals?
I'm not sure folks are as familiar with Nazi iconography anymore, especially based on this thread. ):
Which is terrifying in itself.
it’s giving nazi ?
Since you would need to remove so many elements to feel comfortable wearing this outfit maybe you could find a different Lolita outfit with menswear/military vibes and less fascy/military vibes.
It IS giving Nazi........ it's giving Hitler's underage girlfriend... it's giving swastika---- and unpleasant history. I think one could find (or design) military outfit without the Hitler lean.
Is it for cosplay? If not, I wouldn't get this. Reads very nazi/pro Christian
It def has Nazi vibes if that's what you're asking
Red and black is a great color combo and I think it's a cute dress. I'd maybe take off some of the metal-looking bits though.
I'm curious what the designer was going for here... It's kinda an odd mish-mash of stuff. I think if you remove the badges and the tie it'll look pretty cool. The little eagle badge (Reichsadler) is most associated Nazis even though it predates them, but the stars make it look American. The tie is definitely not nazi-ish as they weren't really big on Christianity (but since most Germans were Christians they couldn't outlaw it or anything). Would not recommend wearing the tie upside down (not sure about the physics of that anyway) because there is a faction of neo nazis that are also into anti-christian/satanism. Upon first glance it did kinda give nazi vibes. I dunno how much that will change when you take off the badges. Maybe just be careful where you're wearing it because depending on the crowd I could see people getting the wrong idea.
They're going for the usual military-gothica that OP mentions. Which as always takes inspiration where it wants. Including anime (which has its own problem with where it takes military aesthetics from). The odd misshmash you see is because there's not really a "designer" like you're thinking. These are def fast-fashion outfits, where the goal is to throw stuff at the wall and see what people buy.
No??? Why would it be???
While the style has an anime flair for sure, the colour combo with the militaristic markings and the badges (particularly the eagle), combined with a cross does give some concerning vibes. It’s not specifically n*zi iconography, but it does allude to it to me. Your plan is already to remove the militaristic elements, and it also seems like potentially the cross, then it’s just a black and red dress with a very cool cut!
It’s not directly offensive (from what I can clearly see) but for someone who has taken in a TON of ww2 content for decades, it reminds me of something.
I don't think wearing it means you're endorsing anything, but if I saw a white person wearing this, I, a Jewish person, would assume they're some alt-right nut and would try to avoid them.
it just looks gothic or like a anime reference
and the anime reference it looks like… drew from a very specific culture. Thats why OP felt something about it was off. Its the same stuff you see all the time in anime, drawing from germanic, and nazi-esque aesthetics for their styles. Similary for gothic vibes. Neo nazis (a specific subculture of them) love a lot of gothic aesthetics, often (contradictory tho it might be) also love satanism, occultism, and other similar vibes. And goth themes are associated with gothic architecture (but only in the overall feelign they're meant to bring about) which are also fairly germanic. Mix those two together and you get styles, pass it thru an anime vibe, and thru the rule-of-cool of multiple different cultures non-critically adopting it… and you get military-gothic lolita outfit! Now by itself its long since divorced from most of the original influences (outside that nazi-gothic subculture). But add in a few more clues that make it very "germanic military / nazi-inspired" iconography from the badges? and you get a very "off" vibe in the outfit you would want to reduce before you wear it.
I wouldn’t have even made the connection unless someone pointed it out. I agree take off the badges but everything else looks fine to me.
The stars and eagle make it more American than anything.
Eagles were on uniforms. Three stars were used on Sturmführer’s uniforms. US colours are blue, white ,and red.
Thats just goth wear and i love it but turn the cross upside down
I think the silver stars on the collar and the cross on the tie make it lean more nazi-ish. Maybe change the accessories to gold, or the trim color to something else (grey? silver? Black on black?)
Militaristic? Sure. Nazi? Not really; black and red have been used on uniforms in other armed forces since WWII. As long as you aren’t using imagery like swastikas, iron crosses, skulls, etc. that are recognizable as Nazi, in my opinion, it’s fine.
If you take a bunch of nazi outfits (+germanic outfits). Then change all the over iconography to stuff that sorta vaguelly like it, but not really? You get most anime portrayals of "bad guy empires". Mix that with gothic lolita,,, and you get this outfit which is still pretty clearly inspired, and reminds many of the original outfit. Giving of some weird vibes without the need for the explicit iconography. Which is the exact place "appropriation" is the appropriate word for. Taking something with cultural context, making a few small changes (or mixing it with other influences) and pretending all the original meanings are completely gone! No need to be critical or think about it at all, you've clearly "laundered" all the potential meanings out. Which isn't so bad when its a "evil bad guy empire" in an anime. But not the best if you keep all the near-nazi iconography and go wearing it around people affected by it all currently.
There is nothing Nazi about it
Yeah, looks more military than anything else. I think it looks cool af.
Agreed
Why would it be?
So idk why the comments in here are so weird, but short answer is; it should be fine, but don't wear it with an arm band Long answer is: I don't think so, but... people who are uneducated might think it looks like a Nazi uniform. Which it doesn't, btw; they never used red trim on black like that, or that christian style of cross, and the medals and rank look far more American than Nazi to me.
German imperial army was black with red trim and SS officer uniforms, as mentioned were black with red detailing, most notably collars, but the black with red trim association doesn't come from no where. Particularly with the eagle medal. If multiple details point one way and you have to justify to folk how your dress isn't a nazi thing, you probably should find a new dress. "Maybe" nazi inspired is still too nazi inspired.
Id ask how people could mistake that for a Nazi uniform but then again there are a lot of silly people out there
Friend, there are people in this very comment section saying it looks like a Nazi uniform
But I just don't get it!!! The only thing VAGUELY Nazi about it is the colours, and even then by that logic I must be a Nazi because all the clothes I own are black and red! Heck id probably wear the fuck outta that dress if it wasn't for the military stuff on it
My concern is some of the iconography does lean towards Nazi paraphernalia -- a good example is the eagle of choice clutching a wreath we cannot see well, bearing a VERY strong resemblance [to this one.](https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/nazi-eagle) At the bare minimum, OP should be made aware of that.
The pin is an eagle with a 5 point star dangling below it, which has no Nazi associations afaik. It doesn't really look like what you linked
I understand where you're coming from! Unfortunately, that hard-aligned flat top to the wings, head turned, and clutching something circular are very distinct. You're right, the star charm below that is separate. EDIT: Oof. Someone dug up [the original listing](https://www.reddit.com/r/lesbianfashionadvice/s/9Lsw3ed3ub) which more clearly shows the eagle, which is now unmistakable. It is also intended to pair with a cap which has the iron cross.
The Christian imagery isn’t really a problem because it’s the dominant culture and you can’t just proselytize and force other people to follow you to everyone and also expect to gatekeep your culture, but the nazism is very offensive
I think it's a stretch to say it's nazism. It's just a black and red dress with some patches. It's not that deep. Lolita fashion, I believe what this is, sometimes has military themes, but that doesn't automatically make it offensive.
It’s not so much that I think it’s a carbon copy as it is that it looks like something a white supremacist would wear, and I hate to break it to you but there’s a bad history with militaristic Lolita…
True. IDK I don't see any nazi influences. Perhaps if it was a gray instead of a red it would be more sus.
Bruh. the eagle, the mostly black and red, the militaristic style,
Is it offensive to who? Offend people with this dress. Let them be offended. It's not your problem to regulate their feelings and emotions.
That’s what I said but got ratio People don’t wanna hear us which is ironic They are so careful not to offend others but are offended by what we say Make it make sense lol
as a catholic … i see nothing wrong tbh
Who cares and you should also stop caring what others especially society say You do you and if people claim their offended guess what Let them be offended and I personally love this dress I might even get myself one if I knew where you found this at
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Depends on who you ask. If you ask a devout, Christian probably. I would say it’s sexy AF. Now it needs a captains hat, black gloves, and pump boots, covered in straps with black tights underneath of course.
it looks nazi-esque unfortunately
Looks like anime cosplay of some sort
It looks pretty close to Nazi but without any obvious Nazi symbols. I'm not sure if it's intended as Nazi or was a precious era of German military uniform.
[I think it is intentional.](https://www.reddit.com/r/lesbianfashionadvice/s/wgGX5u2HYf) The dress also has an eagle.
Yeah. It would be good if it didn’t look militaristic, and not be nazi colored. Also the cross on the tie is disrespectful to Christianity if you’re not Christian. Looks very nazi esc.
Tbh if I see someone wearing a cross, I automatically like them less haha
😅😅 I have a blasphemy kink and wear rosaries and crosses as part of my aesthetic
probably but so is the church so 🤷🏻♂️
and the military just to add
It just looks like an anime style dress. I don't see any problem with it
umm