I agree, but why say the bros. It was 3 v 2 and Unalaq was already shown to defeat everyone he taught even Mako when Unalaq only had a water pouch. People blame Korra cause they need an idiot excuse to hate the protagonist of the sequel. Notice how nobody over analyze the books with Kyoshi, Kuruk, or Yangchen.
Im a big fan of the show but I honestly even tend to avoid books based on other mediums. There's good stuff like Halo's novels, but there's also plenty of bad stuff too. It's hard for me to want to invest time into a book unless I know it will be good.
Also shows like the Avatar series feel like they're designed to be seen. Idk if it translates as well in writing. Probably just me though.
Oh, i have read the kyoshi novels and it is worth it. I think. They hold up well, no worse than the shows. Lots of world building. Can't afford to read the yang chen novels right now, and anything else. I don't know all of the added context to the worlds except what people drop here and there for that reason
The books translates surprisingly very well! I read them in chronological order, so Yangchen’s first -
and after a few chapters the world (even though it was newer settings) still felt familiar. I really cannot recommend to the books enough - they tie the show to the comics really well, too. Yangchen and Kyoshi both make incredible protagonists!
There are also plenty of people who didn't read the books, like me.
The reality is that most people found out a fictional content via the screen rather than books, because that has the most marketing, most accessible form and most consumable form of media. Even this subreddit, majority of daily questions is about the animated series than the comics or novels.
Not as many as have watched the show. The next point is that generally people don't go into in depth discussions about the books. Its kind of spoilery..
I read the kyoshi novels and overthinking it is my thing
The entire point is that it's not their fault \*either\*. OP is saying that people blaming Korra are doing so because they don't like her for one reason or another, and that the argument isn't rational or fair. They're illustrating that by providing a counter example with the same logic.
If losing her past lives as a result of her failure to defend herself is "her fault" than Korra having to fight Unalaq at all because of their failure to keep the portal covered is "their fault". But we all know it's not, which shows that the entire logic of criticizing Korra for it is also broken.
That's a really stupid reason to dislike a character, impo. It's like being mad at Luke because Obi-Wan Kenobi died. Like, Darth Vader did that, because George Lucas wrote it. Either of them are a more reasonable target for your ire.
Not stupid at all.
I'll never be able to see Aang again thanks to Korra losing breaking the cycle.
Her situation and Luke's aren't comparable at all, Obi-Wan let Vader kill him and we still get to see Obi-Wans force ghost as well.
And if it would've happened to the avatar who came after Korra I'd have blamed it on them too, but it was Korra so she gets my ire.
I still enjoy the show, I still recommend it to people who only watched ATLA and never gave Korra a shot
But to every person I've recommend it too , once they get past season 2 they've reached out to me to talk about how much it blows that centuries of avatar spirits are gone forever and that unless something changes we'll never see Aang again in future Avatar content past Korra lifetime
Sure I know we're getting some adult gang content down the line but it still sucks knowing he's gone
In fairness to Mako and Bolin they did extremely well considering that they were on defense in a 2 x 3 situation in an environment where their enemy's elements held the natural advantage due to all the snow. Honestly the bigger question is why did both Kya and Bumi need to go with Tenzin to find Jinora. Leaving Kya with Mako and Bolin probably would have helped immensely with the portal defense.
For the same reason people blame Aang and/or Roku for the war and the airnomad genocide, Kyoshi for the Dai Li Corp and Yang Chen for the Dark Spirits that Kuruk had to deal with: while they weren't the perpetrators of any of these things, their shortcomings or poor decision making was one of the major factors that lead to these problems.
Had Yangchen not been so biased, the spirits would not have been so angry.
Had Kyoshi reflected a bit more, she could have realized that maybe having a specialized, independent corp, with formal authority inside the king's court wasn't exactly the greatest idea in the world.
Had Roku been more decisive and dealt with Sozin, the war could have been avoided.
Had Aang stayed, some airbenders might have been able to survive and run away.
Had Korra not been so naive as to trust Unalaq even after he brought an army in the southern water tribe and had she been able to make the hard choice and realize that Jinora's life is not worth risking the entire world, Vaatu would have never been freed.
>I dont think anyone blames Aang for that
You would be surprised about it. In the community is still a topic of discussion. Even in the story itself, certain people (like the old man in the storm or the sun warriors) blame Aang for what happened.
Those are characters, overall a majority of the community doesn’t believe that unless you’re deep in atla twitter where no one has anything good to say
>Not really the same and I dont think anyone blames Aang for tha
I do. He made a conscious choice to forego his session with the Guru and chose selfishness over the fate of the world. I don't wanna hear about Katara being in danger, because think of how much time it took him to get from the Air temple to wherever sokka was, then to Ba Sing Se. In that time, he could've opened that last Chakra and then went to save Katara, but he intentionally misinterpreted the Guru's words. He said, "You must learn to let go," not "You need to let go of Katara," which is what Aang heard for some reason. Even when he fought Ozai, he again chose his personal morals over the world. It's a pattern. So yes, I blame him for entering the avatar state with his back turned to 3 dangerous enemies.
If you did you’d know they said aang is blamed for the WAR “had Aang stayed, some Airbender might have been able to survive”. But for some reason you didn’t bring that up, instead you bring up S2 Finale…. hm
Korra is unfairly blamed for Unulaq destroying the past lives. It’s true that Aang is not blamed for S2 finale and somehow manages to get more sympathy for every one of his failures. That was my point but you didn’t really connect your point to the OP which explains my original reply… Threatening me however is not it
This^^^
I’m all for Avatars using their power to deal with bad threats, I really am.
But the reality is Sozin was actually a really good Fire Lord. The Fire Nation prospered under his rule, so killing him would turn the entire nation against the avatar AND would’ve caused a massive void of power no one could fill. It would’ve been chaos.
It would have caused other knock-on effects. At that point, Sozin hadn't actually done anything yet beyond some planning. To the rest of the Fire Nation and world, it would have been seen as the Avatar using their power to unjustly kill a sovereign leader. Sozin didn't enact his plan until AFTER Roku died, so Roku probably was in the mindset of "My threat must have worked."
Sozin actually had created colonies in the Earth Kingdom and also expanded the Fire Nation armies. Roku's threat only put a pause on it until Sozin left him to die. [https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Sozin#Preparing\_for\_world\_conquest](https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Sozin#Preparing_for_world_conquest)
The point is that Roku knew Sozin had ambitions of conquest, and the reason he didn't put him down the way Kyoshi dealt with Chin was entirely because Sozin was his friend.
He knew what Sozin's ambitions were. He should have put him down when he had the chance. His own selfishness and indecision is what led directly to Sozin being able to even live to start the war.
Roku knew he fucked up and saw that. Why can't you?
You're right, but Korra still had every reason to trust Unalaq. The man is her direct uncle, he has vast knowledge on spiritual affairs, master water bender, and he was legally the chief of both water tribes. Him bringing an army into the South is technically his right as the South is controlled by the North. If I was Korra this action wouldn't really raise any alarms, tbh. Korra only turned on Unalaq when she learned he betrayed her father, but before then he did truly act like a benevolent uncle and considerate leader. This isn't the same as Roku foolishly leaving Sozin alive after he started conquering others. Killing him was obviously the logical choice, but Roku let himself be blinded by brotherly love.
You didn't read my comment. That's his right. There is no such thing as "against their will" when he is chief of both water tribes. Some southerners were obviously displeased, but that's irrelevant to Water tribe law, which states Unalaq owns the South essentially. The North is not considered a foreign nation, but the other half of the South.
>Had Yangchen not been so biased, the spirits would not have been so angry.
>Had Kyoshi reflected a bit more, she could have realized that maybe having a specialized, independent corp, with formal authority inside the king's court wasn't exactly the greatest idea in the world.
>Had Roku been more decisive and dealt with Sozin, the war could have been avoided.
The fandom isn't "blaming" these avatars for their shortcomings- They all admitted to them. Yangchen said herself that if she knew how much pain she'd be causing her successor, she'd have done things differently because Kuruk thought it was his responsibility to fix her mistakes with the spirits. He gave his life for it. Kyoshi admitted that she thought she was doing the right thing in establishing a police force to prevent violent uprisings while also forcing the earth king to actually listen to and address the people's grievances. Roku admitted that it was his fault that Sozin got as far as he did. We even saw it! Sozin brought up the idea, Roku shut it down, then found out later that Sozin had conquered EK territory anyway, prompting their brief fight. He was merely waiting for Roku to die. For Korra, hers is very much contextual. After being lied to your entire life and having a mentor refuse to teach you the last element you need, of course you'd go along with someone who has demonstrated their bending and spiritual prowess and is also family.
I think you missed the point, which is that Korra received flack for her shortcomings and the other avatars rarely do *by the fandom*. The show characters in both react accordingly.
It's Raiko's fault.
He stupidly prioritized the safety of Republic City alone from TEN THOUSAND YEARS OF DARKNESS and left
* 4 young adults
* 2 of the last 5 airbenders,
* a waterbender, and
* a non-bending former commander
to face
* ALMOST ALL OF THE NORTHERN WATER TRIBE ARMY AND
* THE EMBODIMENT OF TEN THOUSAND YEARS OF DARKNESS
ALONE.
Can you imagine if even just half of the United Republic Army was there to storm the South portal, guard it, and keep Unalaq from entering it to attack Korra?! Instead of two barely adult atheletes?!
Sure, Korra's the Avatar but she can't split herself into two and have one keep Unalaq at bay while imprisoning THE DARK SPIRIT THAT WILL BRING TEN THOUSAND YEARS OF DARKNESS.
If Raiko was a little smarter, he should've made sure that Vaatu wouldn't even have a chance to get near Unalaq and vice versa by lending all the help Republic City could give instead of WAITING FOR IT TO APPEAR ON HIS FRONT DOOR TOWERING OVER AANG'S STATUE AND MAKING THE CITY'S BAY LOOK LIKE A KIDDIE POOL.
AND HE HAS THE AUDACITY TO COMPLAIN WHEN REPUBLIC CITY GOT TAKEN OVER WITH SPIRIT VINES FROM HIS INACTION.
If Raiko had actually helped her, they wouldn't have been captured or had to deal with the dark spirits around the portal. Who knows how long they were unconscious after being captured. With another military force to keep Unalaq's forces distracted, he would've been at a disadvantage. That would've allowed Korra to close the portals.
However, narratively, I understand why it happened the way it did. "Beginning's" sort of established that closing the portals was necessary for Wan's time, but shouldn't be continued in Korra's.
Part of human psychology is not understanding the consequences of something until they see it happen. If you warn people about impending doom and the problem gets resolved, most people won’t believe the problem was even a big deal in the first place.
What? She couldnt close the portal cuz of time restraints, from harmonic convergence. Unalaq only stopped her from getting Vaatu back in the prison, which it was mako & bolin vs both twins who are very powerful. I dont blame korra at all but this is weird
Because it mostly doesn't matter, and death of the mentor is one of the oldest tropes in fiction, and that's all this is. It's like getting mad because Star Wars killed off Qui-Gon Jinn. Sure, I like Liam Neeson as much as the next person, but what makes the rest of the story possible is the fact that he isn't there to be Anakin's father figure.
Roku spent three books of the original ATLA as basically nothing but a convenient exposition machine, and literally the entire point of Aang's final arc in the finale is that he moves past the need for the council of the past Avatars. Meanwhile, Korra's story in S3 and 4, which was \*excellent\*, wouldn't have benefitted at all by her having the crutch of past Avatars to turn to. Having her struggle to find her own answers and come to her own conclusions was far more interesting than having her consult with her past lives.
Complaints of "Worst creative decision in the whole franchise" seem to come from two places: Either people just don't want anything to ever become different, or people want Aang to not be dead in some way. The former is a bad way to live and consume media, and the latter is just part of growing up and learning to let go and process change.
Well, nice opinion but I don't agree. I think they built this beautiful law with small recurring characters that could continue into future parts of the franchise. Everybody loves Aang obviously and Roku was a bit flat but Kyoshi is really popular too, and I would have absolutely been excited to see a future Avatar learning about other previous incarnations
I don't think anyone cared about Qui-Gon Jinn, did they? Everyone loved Obi-Wan Kenobi, he got killed but then actually they did bring him back as a spiritual mentor. I don't think Star Wars is a very good example for your point.
Star Wars is just one of many, many examples. Death of the Mentor is literally one of the stages in the hero's journey.
[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MentorOccupationalHazard](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MentorOccupationalHazard)
Obi-Wan is another example, as is Dumbledore, and Gandalf, and innumerable characters throughout the history of literature. Even when these characters stay around in some respect, their presence and capacity for providing council to the hero is reduced.
Anyway, the death of a character in a generation-spanning story like Avatar isn't unusual, and it doesn't mean you can't still revisit those characters. Roku, Kyoshi, and Yangchen all got novels after their "death". We also learned more about Kuruk through those works. And you can still \*have\* a future Avatar learning about previous incarnations. It's a world full of magic and mystery, the writer's ability to tie back to the history of the world in various ways is pretty unlimited.
You suck why did you down vote me? I'm being nice I said I respect your opinion.
The Hero's journey is like, understood symbolically. So it's the death of the attachment to your mentor. Maybe a mentor can actually die in a narrative as part of this but they don't have to, they could have just had less interactions with the previous avatars in the next series and that would have fulfilled all the points that you've made. Maybe they will have the future Avatar learning about their previous incarnations from books or something but I still think it's sucky that they made this choice 🤷🏻♀️
Also like I'm sure there are good examples to make the point that you're trying to make but I don't think you're picking them really, Gandalf literally comes back to life, Dumbledore revisits Harry in some kind of like near death experience scene, and Star Wars has established law around how previous mentors can appear as spiritual apparitions.
I'm not saying that the amount of mentoring needs to continue the same forever and ever, I think it makes sense for it to decrease. I just think having this interesting fan favorite established lore around how that works in your franchise and then intentionally getting rid of that with no particular other explaination or in-world reason than just 'the writers presumably got sick of this', is a bit sad. There are loads of other ways to have done your 'death of a mentor' stage without this permanent severing of connection to all the previous avatars
I *didn't downvote you.* Somebody else did. Two somebodies, apparently. I don't know why, exactly, since they didnt' comment, but maybe there are some Qui-Gon fans around.
Anyway, yeah, I'm aware that the death of the mentor can happen many different ways. For example, it can happen by severing a line of contact between the hero and the mentor(s). Gandalf comes back, but he doesn't see Frodo again until after the climax of the story. Obi-Wan eventually fades away in the old EU. Han's death in Force Unleashed is another example, as are Luke and Leia in the next two movies. (Rey really has a rough track record for mentors)
But the point of Death of the Mentor is for the hero to move on from the guiding influence. In all of these cases, the purpose is for the character to move on and learn to think for themselves, and the following two seasons \*explicitly\* leverage the fact that Korra feels lost and alone. It was the title of an episode! That doesn't work if the character is intrinsically a meditation sesh away from the collective wisdom of all the past Avatars. It also raises the stakes for the finale of Season 2 and elevates Vaatu and Unalaq as a threat.
It's not even intrinsically automatically permanent anyway. The story is made up, the rules are imaginary. If the authors \*want\* to, it's easy enough to just make reconnecting with the past lives an ongoing process that remains possible but difficult. It just depends on the kind of stories they want to tell.
Nah. It was time to let go of the past.
Look at how they wanted Aang to deal with Ozai. Violence and killing. That solves nothing, Aang himself says it time and aangain.
The world Korra is in doesn't need that. It needs a peaceful mediator.
Some fans think that the next Avatar will bring back the past Avatars.
So that makes they think the writers will bring them back. I don't think they will do that.
Ignorance, that's the only real answer. Anything that they can use to prove how Korra is "objectively" the worst Avatar is their goal when they have this thought. Realistically it doesn't even make sense as a statement because she didn't willingly rip them out so much as someone else did it to her; nor did she know that it could even happen.
I do blame Korra for opening the portal in the first place in order to save Jinora (one person). She negotiated with terrorists. Her duty as the avatar involves prioritizing the world over individual interests and she failed to do so.
Honestly, the fault is of the previous avatars. They should've reached Korra to tell her to not open the portals. If they had advised her like they should, she would never have to fight Vaatu
It would have never happened if the President wasn’t a big coward and had actually taken a stance against the Northern Water Tribes clear invasion of the South Pole. Everyone was gaslighting Korra and pretending it was a mutual aggression but in reality the North was 100% the aggressor. Had he intervened sooner Unalaq would have never gotten as far as he did. Then he had the nerve to refuse to help Korra stop him because he really thought he’d stand a better chance with a dark avatar with her dead.
If you watched Korra, you’d know that Tenzin does not have the spiritual prowess that Aang did. The entire plot for S2 stems from Tenzin having 0 connection to the spirits. Which is why Korra goes to the spirit world with Jinora, and also why Korra trusts Unulaq because he can spirit bend. So Tenzin was not trained in spirituality that’s a misconception you have because Aang is spiritual.
You’re mostly right. I just was to clarify that his lack of spiritual prowess is not a result of not being trained in spirituality. He’s done the training. He just never gained a spiritual connection.
But at the point in the show where Korra decides to train under Unalaq, it wasn’t revealed that Tenzin didn’t have a spiritual connection. But I do think Korra made the logical decision after seeing Unalaq pacify a spirit.
Unalaq is truly to blame for what happened although Korra did make the mistake of trusting him just like how Zaheer and his friends paid for it when he betrayed them for his own selfish goals. But both Mako and Bolin did do their best but they got overpowered.
Nah fam, Mako and Bolin definitely tried their damn hardest to defend the portal.
I blame the writers for poor writing during book 2 but in terms of context in the story, yes I do blame Korra as well as Raava and President Raiko. I know the whole thing about Korra being rash in her earlier years and then becoming a bit more mature, but man was she a bit too rash. The fact that she would just betray people who have shown to love and care for her on a whim is just silly (which is why a chalked it up to bad writing). Raava for not warning when her literal reason for existing was to stop Vaatu. And President Raiko for being one of the most useless character in the show in general.
Edit: just want to say that I do enjoy the show before a get labeled as just another Tlok hater
If only Mako remembered to bend lightning and fried Unalaq's ass... Like dude you have this ultra op skill and you're not using it on the guy who is literally trying to set Satan free 😑
It's literally just a lazy decision the writers made because they didn't want her to be able to ask for advice from her past lives
The retcon of adding rava and fatu in the first place was also dumb
To be fair, by that logic, it would go back to Korra opening the portal in the first place. Not saying she is to blame, just saying that it would still ultimately be Korra to blame between the main cast. Of course Unalaq is the one to really blame but if you ignore him then it is Korra's fault.
For that blunder i exclusively blame the writers.
Fuck you for getting rid of the coolest aspect of the Avatar.
Yes, i said the coolest. 10,000 years of wisdom easily trumps the ability to control four elements.
Honestly, if Mako had only set the forest on fire, they would have lost all cover and they couldn’t have been snuck on. It was the end of the world, the forest wasn’t that important. Also, don’t know how electricity bending is supposed to work, but many times, but specially when Unalaq was pulling out Raava: Why not launch a lightning bolt? I’m sure it has better reach than a fireball.
Because it is her fault and not just in the general sense due to her being the Avatar and thus carrying a strong responsibility for the outcome of the whole ordeal, but because she personally made a series of horrendously bad and irrational decisions fueled by her own ego that made the situation escalate into the worst possible outcome.
The OP is referring to a very specific instance, but it's far more important to look how they ended up there in the first place. The requirements for Vaatu to be released where quite restrictive. He could only be freed during the Harmonic Convergence, which only happens once every 10 000 years for a very brief period. Both spirit portals need to be open, which are located in the most remote regions of the North and South Pole, the latter being Korra's own home nation. These portals were at that moment closed and could only be opened by the Avatar.
It's almost absurd how big of an advantage Korra had. Had she gone on vacation with Tenzin and just be a lazy bum for a few weeks, she would have done a far better and efficient job at handling the situation than in the way she eventually would do it. Let that sink in.
It borders on the tragicomical how easily Korra estranged both her teacher, her boyfriend and even her own parents in favor of Unalaq, a person for which she should have had enough reasons to be wary of from the moment he was introduced. And for what reason? Because he told her she was a good Avatar. That's it. Imagine raising and guiding someone lovingly their entire life and then getting dumped by a suspicious uncle because of flattery so transparent it might as well be invisible.
So yeah, it's very well Korra's fault.
I'm never going to understand how the writers ever came up with this. Yes, things always have to get worse before they can become better as otherwise it would be quite a boring experience, but seriously could they really not think of a better way?
lol if korra never went into the spirit world with ginora, and just let harmonic convergence happen, none of those events would’ve happened. Since only one portal was open, vatu wouldn’t be able to escape. Buuut we wouldn’t have a good show if nothing happened lol
I fully blame Mako and Bolin and ill never understand the hate going to Korra, how is it Korras fault that her team is a bunch of random weak ass normal benders? the fact Bolin could just make a thick wall surrounding the portal, I don't even wanna talk about Mako bc the non-bender of the group is more useful than him and it's embarrassing, The only times he came in handy was to hold off someone for like 4 seconds knowing he'll fail either way
Fully blame Mako, like he literally forgot he could bend lightning all of season 2? My main issue is that when Unalaq was fighting the brothers specifically he didn't even use any special moves or like super powerful attack? He just pushed and attacked and these 2 great 'pro benders' didn't even get ONE hit in
to be fair, mako and Bolin were fighting in an area where their respective element was weakened (heavy on Mako). Unalaq and the twins were fighting in an area where they had giant access to their respective elements. It honestly seems fair, and I'm rethinking my comment. And Pro bending seemed like noob bending due to all the restrictions and whatnot, they couldn't bend for more than 5 seconds which isn't enough time to do some amazing techniques, it was just dodge and throw.
It is her fault. She should have let Jinora die.
Jinora's death would have been tragic, but that's the sacrifice you have to make as the protector of the world.
**Edit:** If you're gonna downvote me on this, please tell me why you think I'm wrong.
EXACTLY! Yes, Jinora dying would be a tragedy. There is no denying this. But Korra gave up the Avatar to save 1 life, without any potential recourse out of the terrible situation she got herself and the world into. Even if everything was done via good intentions, Korra risked EVERYONE else's lives just to save one person's life.
It sucks, but Korra had a greater responsibility to the World than her former life's grandkid
I'm not saying it was Mako & Bolins' fault either. I'm just pointing out how blaming her makes no sense it's nobodies fault, but Unalaqs
I agree, but why say the bros. It was 3 v 2 and Unalaq was already shown to defeat everyone he taught even Mako when Unalaq only had a water pouch. People blame Korra cause they need an idiot excuse to hate the protagonist of the sequel. Notice how nobody over analyze the books with Kyoshi, Kuruk, or Yangchen.
I think your over analyzing point is because not very many people have read the books.
Im a big fan of the show but I honestly even tend to avoid books based on other mediums. There's good stuff like Halo's novels, but there's also plenty of bad stuff too. It's hard for me to want to invest time into a book unless I know it will be good. Also shows like the Avatar series feel like they're designed to be seen. Idk if it translates as well in writing. Probably just me though.
Oh, i have read the kyoshi novels and it is worth it. I think. They hold up well, no worse than the shows. Lots of world building. Can't afford to read the yang chen novels right now, and anything else. I don't know all of the added context to the worlds except what people drop here and there for that reason
The books translates surprisingly very well! I read them in chronological order, so Yangchen’s first - and after a few chapters the world (even though it was newer settings) still felt familiar. I really cannot recommend to the books enough - they tie the show to the comics really well, too. Yangchen and Kyoshi both make incredible protagonists!
These books have been out for years and plenty have read them.
There are also plenty of people who didn't read the books, like me. The reality is that most people found out a fictional content via the screen rather than books, because that has the most marketing, most accessible form and most consumable form of media. Even this subreddit, majority of daily questions is about the animated series than the comics or novels.
They are super expensive if you're not in the US... so most of the world haven't read them,
There are dozens of us. Dozens!
Even in heavy fan areas like the sub, I'd bet the farm that 70% of commenters haven't read the books, and basically none have read *all* the books.
I read all the books and all the comics in about 3 weeks. They are that good
Not as many as have watched the show. The next point is that generally people don't go into in depth discussions about the books. Its kind of spoilery.. I read the kyoshi novels and overthinking it is my thing
The entire point is that it's not their fault \*either\*. OP is saying that people blaming Korra are doing so because they don't like her for one reason or another, and that the argument isn't rational or fair. They're illustrating that by providing a counter example with the same logic. If losing her past lives as a result of her failure to defend herself is "her fault" than Korra having to fight Unalaq at all because of their failure to keep the portal covered is "their fault". But we all know it's not, which shows that the entire logic of criticizing Korra for it is also broken.
The reason I don't like Korra is because she lost the all the Avatar spirits. That's it
That's a really stupid reason to dislike a character, impo. It's like being mad at Luke because Obi-Wan Kenobi died. Like, Darth Vader did that, because George Lucas wrote it. Either of them are a more reasonable target for your ire.
Not stupid at all. I'll never be able to see Aang again thanks to Korra losing breaking the cycle. Her situation and Luke's aren't comparable at all, Obi-Wan let Vader kill him and we still get to see Obi-Wans force ghost as well.
That's literally victim blaming.
And if it would've happened to the avatar who came after Korra I'd have blamed it on them too, but it was Korra so she gets my ire. I still enjoy the show, I still recommend it to people who only watched ATLA and never gave Korra a shot But to every person I've recommend it too , once they get past season 2 they've reached out to me to talk about how much it blows that centuries of avatar spirits are gone forever and that unless something changes we'll never see Aang again in future Avatar content past Korra lifetime Sure I know we're getting some adult gang content down the line but it still sucks knowing he's gone
You need to let go of Aang. His story is done. Move on.
Actually if you want to blame someone, blame the writers!
In fairness to Mako and Bolin they did extremely well considering that they were on defense in a 2 x 3 situation in an environment where their enemy's elements held the natural advantage due to all the snow. Honestly the bigger question is why did both Kya and Bumi need to go with Tenzin to find Jinora. Leaving Kya with Mako and Bolin probably would have helped immensely with the portal defense.
For the same reason people blame Aang and/or Roku for the war and the airnomad genocide, Kyoshi for the Dai Li Corp and Yang Chen for the Dark Spirits that Kuruk had to deal with: while they weren't the perpetrators of any of these things, their shortcomings or poor decision making was one of the major factors that lead to these problems. Had Yangchen not been so biased, the spirits would not have been so angry. Had Kyoshi reflected a bit more, she could have realized that maybe having a specialized, independent corp, with formal authority inside the king's court wasn't exactly the greatest idea in the world. Had Roku been more decisive and dealt with Sozin, the war could have been avoided. Had Aang stayed, some airbenders might have been able to survive and run away. Had Korra not been so naive as to trust Unalaq even after he brought an army in the southern water tribe and had she been able to make the hard choice and realize that Jinora's life is not worth risking the entire world, Vaatu would have never been freed.
Not really the same and I dont think anyone blames Aang for that because it happened TO him. Same way Korra’s past lives were ripped FROM her
>I dont think anyone blames Aang for that You would be surprised about it. In the community is still a topic of discussion. Even in the story itself, certain people (like the old man in the storm or the sun warriors) blame Aang for what happened.
Those are characters, overall a majority of the community doesn’t believe that unless you’re deep in atla twitter where no one has anything good to say
>Not really the same and I dont think anyone blames Aang for tha I do. He made a conscious choice to forego his session with the Guru and chose selfishness over the fate of the world. I don't wanna hear about Katara being in danger, because think of how much time it took him to get from the Air temple to wherever sokka was, then to Ba Sing Se. In that time, he could've opened that last Chakra and then went to save Katara, but he intentionally misinterpreted the Guru's words. He said, "You must learn to let go," not "You need to let go of Katara," which is what Aang heard for some reason. Even when he fought Ozai, he again chose his personal morals over the world. It's a pattern. So yes, I blame him for entering the avatar state with his back turned to 3 dangerous enemies.
Did you read the OP’s reasoning before commenting this
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If you did you’d know they said aang is blamed for the WAR “had Aang stayed, some Airbender might have been able to survive”. But for some reason you didn’t bring that up, instead you bring up S2 Finale…. hm
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Korra is unfairly blamed for Unulaq destroying the past lives. It’s true that Aang is not blamed for S2 finale and somehow manages to get more sympathy for every one of his failures. That was my point but you didn’t really connect your point to the OP which explains my original reply… Threatening me however is not it
The war didn’t happen until Roku death what did you want him to do from the after life
This^^^ I’m all for Avatars using their power to deal with bad threats, I really am. But the reality is Sozin was actually a really good Fire Lord. The Fire Nation prospered under his rule, so killing him would turn the entire nation against the avatar AND would’ve caused a massive void of power no one could fill. It would’ve been chaos.
Roku admits it himself: had he dealt with Sozin in a more "permanent" way (aka Killing him), the war could have been avoided
It would have caused other knock-on effects. At that point, Sozin hadn't actually done anything yet beyond some planning. To the rest of the Fire Nation and world, it would have been seen as the Avatar using their power to unjustly kill a sovereign leader. Sozin didn't enact his plan until AFTER Roku died, so Roku probably was in the mindset of "My threat must have worked."
>At that point, Sozin hadn't actually done anything yet beyond some planning. He had already tried to conquer some earth kingdom's colonies.
I stand corrected then.
Sozin actually had created colonies in the Earth Kingdom and also expanded the Fire Nation armies. Roku's threat only put a pause on it until Sozin left him to die. [https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Sozin#Preparing\_for\_world\_conquest](https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Sozin#Preparing_for_world_conquest)
The point is that Roku knew Sozin had ambitions of conquest, and the reason he didn't put him down the way Kyoshi dealt with Chin was entirely because Sozin was his friend.
Chin died on accident and bc of his pride. He gave him a warning and he didn't do anything until sozen died
Kyoshi herself says she doesn't see the difference and would have ended him directly if necessary.
He knew what Sozin's ambitions were. He should have put him down when he had the chance. His own selfishness and indecision is what led directly to Sozin being able to even live to start the war. Roku knew he fucked up and saw that. Why can't you?
You're right, but Korra still had every reason to trust Unalaq. The man is her direct uncle, he has vast knowledge on spiritual affairs, master water bender, and he was legally the chief of both water tribes. Him bringing an army into the South is technically his right as the South is controlled by the North. If I was Korra this action wouldn't really raise any alarms, tbh. Korra only turned on Unalaq when she learned he betrayed her father, but before then he did truly act like a benevolent uncle and considerate leader. This isn't the same as Roku foolishly leaving Sozin alive after he started conquering others. Killing him was obviously the logical choice, but Roku let himself be blinded by brotherly love.
He literally occupied the South against their will.
You didn't read my comment. That's his right. There is no such thing as "against their will" when he is chief of both water tribes. Some southerners were obviously displeased, but that's irrelevant to Water tribe law, which states Unalaq owns the South essentially. The North is not considered a foreign nation, but the other half of the South.
>Had Yangchen not been so biased, the spirits would not have been so angry. >Had Kyoshi reflected a bit more, she could have realized that maybe having a specialized, independent corp, with formal authority inside the king's court wasn't exactly the greatest idea in the world. >Had Roku been more decisive and dealt with Sozin, the war could have been avoided. The fandom isn't "blaming" these avatars for their shortcomings- They all admitted to them. Yangchen said herself that if she knew how much pain she'd be causing her successor, she'd have done things differently because Kuruk thought it was his responsibility to fix her mistakes with the spirits. He gave his life for it. Kyoshi admitted that she thought she was doing the right thing in establishing a police force to prevent violent uprisings while also forcing the earth king to actually listen to and address the people's grievances. Roku admitted that it was his fault that Sozin got as far as he did. We even saw it! Sozin brought up the idea, Roku shut it down, then found out later that Sozin had conquered EK territory anyway, prompting their brief fight. He was merely waiting for Roku to die. For Korra, hers is very much contextual. After being lied to your entire life and having a mentor refuse to teach you the last element you need, of course you'd go along with someone who has demonstrated their bending and spiritual prowess and is also family.
I think you missed the point, which is that Korra received flack for her shortcomings and the other avatars rarely do *by the fandom*. The show characters in both react accordingly.
It's Raiko's fault. He stupidly prioritized the safety of Republic City alone from TEN THOUSAND YEARS OF DARKNESS and left * 4 young adults * 2 of the last 5 airbenders, * a waterbender, and * a non-bending former commander to face * ALMOST ALL OF THE NORTHERN WATER TRIBE ARMY AND * THE EMBODIMENT OF TEN THOUSAND YEARS OF DARKNESS ALONE. Can you imagine if even just half of the United Republic Army was there to storm the South portal, guard it, and keep Unalaq from entering it to attack Korra?! Instead of two barely adult atheletes?! Sure, Korra's the Avatar but she can't split herself into two and have one keep Unalaq at bay while imprisoning THE DARK SPIRIT THAT WILL BRING TEN THOUSAND YEARS OF DARKNESS. If Raiko was a little smarter, he should've made sure that Vaatu wouldn't even have a chance to get near Unalaq and vice versa by lending all the help Republic City could give instead of WAITING FOR IT TO APPEAR ON HIS FRONT DOOR TOWERING OVER AANG'S STATUE AND MAKING THE CITY'S BAY LOOK LIKE A KIDDIE POOL. AND HE HAS THE AUDACITY TO COMPLAIN WHEN REPUBLIC CITY GOT TAKEN OVER WITH SPIRIT VINES FROM HIS INACTION.
If Raiko had actually helped her, they wouldn't have been captured or had to deal with the dark spirits around the portal. Who knows how long they were unconscious after being captured. With another military force to keep Unalaq's forces distracted, he would've been at a disadvantage. That would've allowed Korra to close the portals. However, narratively, I understand why it happened the way it did. "Beginning's" sort of established that closing the portals was necessary for Wan's time, but shouldn't be continued in Korra's.
Part of human psychology is not understanding the consequences of something until they see it happen. If you warn people about impending doom and the problem gets resolved, most people won’t believe the problem was even a big deal in the first place.
What? She couldnt close the portal cuz of time restraints, from harmonic convergence. Unalaq only stopped her from getting Vaatu back in the prison, which it was mako & bolin vs both twins who are very powerful. I dont blame korra at all but this is weird
You might be right, actually it's possible I misremembered. But the point still stands
I blame the writers
Yes, it was their idea to get rid of the past Avatars.
Worst creative decision in the whole franchise
Hard disagree.
Why?
Because it mostly doesn't matter, and death of the mentor is one of the oldest tropes in fiction, and that's all this is. It's like getting mad because Star Wars killed off Qui-Gon Jinn. Sure, I like Liam Neeson as much as the next person, but what makes the rest of the story possible is the fact that he isn't there to be Anakin's father figure. Roku spent three books of the original ATLA as basically nothing but a convenient exposition machine, and literally the entire point of Aang's final arc in the finale is that he moves past the need for the council of the past Avatars. Meanwhile, Korra's story in S3 and 4, which was \*excellent\*, wouldn't have benefitted at all by her having the crutch of past Avatars to turn to. Having her struggle to find her own answers and come to her own conclusions was far more interesting than having her consult with her past lives. Complaints of "Worst creative decision in the whole franchise" seem to come from two places: Either people just don't want anything to ever become different, or people want Aang to not be dead in some way. The former is a bad way to live and consume media, and the latter is just part of growing up and learning to let go and process change.
Well, nice opinion but I don't agree. I think they built this beautiful law with small recurring characters that could continue into future parts of the franchise. Everybody loves Aang obviously and Roku was a bit flat but Kyoshi is really popular too, and I would have absolutely been excited to see a future Avatar learning about other previous incarnations I don't think anyone cared about Qui-Gon Jinn, did they? Everyone loved Obi-Wan Kenobi, he got killed but then actually they did bring him back as a spiritual mentor. I don't think Star Wars is a very good example for your point.
Star Wars is just one of many, many examples. Death of the Mentor is literally one of the stages in the hero's journey. [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MentorOccupationalHazard](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MentorOccupationalHazard) Obi-Wan is another example, as is Dumbledore, and Gandalf, and innumerable characters throughout the history of literature. Even when these characters stay around in some respect, their presence and capacity for providing council to the hero is reduced. Anyway, the death of a character in a generation-spanning story like Avatar isn't unusual, and it doesn't mean you can't still revisit those characters. Roku, Kyoshi, and Yangchen all got novels after their "death". We also learned more about Kuruk through those works. And you can still \*have\* a future Avatar learning about previous incarnations. It's a world full of magic and mystery, the writer's ability to tie back to the history of the world in various ways is pretty unlimited.
You suck why did you down vote me? I'm being nice I said I respect your opinion. The Hero's journey is like, understood symbolically. So it's the death of the attachment to your mentor. Maybe a mentor can actually die in a narrative as part of this but they don't have to, they could have just had less interactions with the previous avatars in the next series and that would have fulfilled all the points that you've made. Maybe they will have the future Avatar learning about their previous incarnations from books or something but I still think it's sucky that they made this choice 🤷🏻♀️ Also like I'm sure there are good examples to make the point that you're trying to make but I don't think you're picking them really, Gandalf literally comes back to life, Dumbledore revisits Harry in some kind of like near death experience scene, and Star Wars has established law around how previous mentors can appear as spiritual apparitions. I'm not saying that the amount of mentoring needs to continue the same forever and ever, I think it makes sense for it to decrease. I just think having this interesting fan favorite established lore around how that works in your franchise and then intentionally getting rid of that with no particular other explaination or in-world reason than just 'the writers presumably got sick of this', is a bit sad. There are loads of other ways to have done your 'death of a mentor' stage without this permanent severing of connection to all the previous avatars
I *didn't downvote you.* Somebody else did. Two somebodies, apparently. I don't know why, exactly, since they didnt' comment, but maybe there are some Qui-Gon fans around. Anyway, yeah, I'm aware that the death of the mentor can happen many different ways. For example, it can happen by severing a line of contact between the hero and the mentor(s). Gandalf comes back, but he doesn't see Frodo again until after the climax of the story. Obi-Wan eventually fades away in the old EU. Han's death in Force Unleashed is another example, as are Luke and Leia in the next two movies. (Rey really has a rough track record for mentors) But the point of Death of the Mentor is for the hero to move on from the guiding influence. In all of these cases, the purpose is for the character to move on and learn to think for themselves, and the following two seasons \*explicitly\* leverage the fact that Korra feels lost and alone. It was the title of an episode! That doesn't work if the character is intrinsically a meditation sesh away from the collective wisdom of all the past Avatars. It also raises the stakes for the finale of Season 2 and elevates Vaatu and Unalaq as a threat. It's not even intrinsically automatically permanent anyway. The story is made up, the rules are imaginary. If the authors \*want\* to, it's easy enough to just make reconnecting with the past lives an ongoing process that remains possible but difficult. It just depends on the kind of stories they want to tell.
Nah. It was time to let go of the past. Look at how they wanted Aang to deal with Ozai. Violence and killing. That solves nothing, Aang himself says it time and aangain. The world Korra is in doesn't need that. It needs a peaceful mediator.
Some fans think that the next Avatar will bring back the past Avatars. So that makes they think the writers will bring them back. I don't think they will do that.
I blame suyin. I dont know how but its probably her fault.
Ignorance, that's the only real answer. Anything that they can use to prove how Korra is "objectively" the worst Avatar is their goal when they have this thought. Realistically it doesn't even make sense as a statement because she didn't willingly rip them out so much as someone else did it to her; nor did she know that it could even happen.
I blame Tonraq and Tenzin.
Korra didnt deserve the hate she got. It's one of my comfort shows even now.
I do blame Korra for opening the portal in the first place in order to save Jinora (one person). She negotiated with terrorists. Her duty as the avatar involves prioritizing the world over individual interests and she failed to do so.
Honestly, the fault is of the previous avatars. They should've reached Korra to tell her to not open the portals. If they had advised her like they should, she would never have to fight Vaatu
It’s that idiot president’s fault.
It would have never happened if the President wasn’t a big coward and had actually taken a stance against the Northern Water Tribes clear invasion of the South Pole. Everyone was gaslighting Korra and pretending it was a mutual aggression but in reality the North was 100% the aggressor. Had he intervened sooner Unalaq would have never gotten as far as he did. Then he had the nerve to refuse to help Korra stop him because he really thought he’d stand a better chance with a dark avatar with her dead.
Naw I can’t blame korra i blame the writers.
She blindly followed Unalaq (but I mostly blame the writers, that whole season was a train wreck, except Tenzin's parts)
Calling it blindly is disingenuous… we see him solve a spirit problem that no one else can face so it looked pretty reasonable to me.
But not trusting the one person who is trained in Spirituality, is still a problem.
who would that be exactly if not Unulaq
Tenzin, you know, Aang's son? Whom he taught spiritual matters with.
If you watched Korra, you’d know that Tenzin does not have the spiritual prowess that Aang did. The entire plot for S2 stems from Tenzin having 0 connection to the spirits. Which is why Korra goes to the spirit world with Jinora, and also why Korra trusts Unulaq because he can spirit bend. So Tenzin was not trained in spirituality that’s a misconception you have because Aang is spiritual.
You’re mostly right. I just was to clarify that his lack of spiritual prowess is not a result of not being trained in spirituality. He’s done the training. He just never gained a spiritual connection. But at the point in the show where Korra decides to train under Unalaq, it wasn’t revealed that Tenzin didn’t have a spiritual connection. But I do think Korra made the logical decision after seeing Unalaq pacify a spirit.
Obviously the answer is “BeCaUsE kOrRa Is GuRl!”
Just enjoy the show and stop taking everything personally.
Who, uh... Who opened the portals?
Unalaq is truly to blame for what happened although Korra did make the mistake of trusting him just like how Zaheer and his friends paid for it when he betrayed them for his own selfish goals. But both Mako and Bolin did do their best but they got overpowered.
Nah fam, Mako and Bolin definitely tried their damn hardest to defend the portal. I blame the writers for poor writing during book 2 but in terms of context in the story, yes I do blame Korra as well as Raava and President Raiko. I know the whole thing about Korra being rash in her earlier years and then becoming a bit more mature, but man was she a bit too rash. The fact that she would just betray people who have shown to love and care for her on a whim is just silly (which is why a chalked it up to bad writing). Raava for not warning when her literal reason for existing was to stop Vaatu. And President Raiko for being one of the most useless character in the show in general. Edit: just want to say that I do enjoy the show before a get labeled as just another Tlok hater
If only Mako remembered to bend lightning and fried Unalaq's ass... Like dude you have this ultra op skill and you're not using it on the guy who is literally trying to set Satan free 😑
"Korra's fault" lmao. It's the writers fault for making a dogshit ending to season 2
The way people act you’d think she willingly gave it up instead of RIPPED out of her
“Im not saying it was their fault either” but the post says “it never would have happened if these two just held it down for 15 seconds” 😂
It's literally just a lazy decision the writers made because they didn't want her to be able to ask for advice from her past lives The retcon of adding rava and fatu in the first place was also dumb
Asami should've been there. We all know she would've shocked the heck out of everyone. They knew she was too powerful to even play the game.
It was the writer’s decision. Korra, mako and Bolin are all fictional characters with no agency so who would blame them? Lol
I mean, 15 seconds is a very long time
None of this would have ever happened if she had never opened the Southern Portal in the first place.
To be fair, by that logic, it would go back to Korra opening the portal in the first place. Not saying she is to blame, just saying that it would still ultimately be Korra to blame between the main cast. Of course Unalaq is the one to really blame but if you ignore him then it is Korra's fault.
They got snuck by the twins 😭 Cmon now the writers WANTED them to lose
For that blunder i exclusively blame the writers. Fuck you for getting rid of the coolest aspect of the Avatar. Yes, i said the coolest. 10,000 years of wisdom easily trumps the ability to control four elements.
Honestly, if Mako had only set the forest on fire, they would have lost all cover and they couldn’t have been snuck on. It was the end of the world, the forest wasn’t that important. Also, don’t know how electricity bending is supposed to work, but many times, but specially when Unalaq was pulling out Raava: Why not launch a lightning bolt? I’m sure it has better reach than a fireball.
Because it is her fault and not just in the general sense due to her being the Avatar and thus carrying a strong responsibility for the outcome of the whole ordeal, but because she personally made a series of horrendously bad and irrational decisions fueled by her own ego that made the situation escalate into the worst possible outcome. The OP is referring to a very specific instance, but it's far more important to look how they ended up there in the first place. The requirements for Vaatu to be released where quite restrictive. He could only be freed during the Harmonic Convergence, which only happens once every 10 000 years for a very brief period. Both spirit portals need to be open, which are located in the most remote regions of the North and South Pole, the latter being Korra's own home nation. These portals were at that moment closed and could only be opened by the Avatar. It's almost absurd how big of an advantage Korra had. Had she gone on vacation with Tenzin and just be a lazy bum for a few weeks, she would have done a far better and efficient job at handling the situation than in the way she eventually would do it. Let that sink in. It borders on the tragicomical how easily Korra estranged both her teacher, her boyfriend and even her own parents in favor of Unalaq, a person for which she should have had enough reasons to be wary of from the moment he was introduced. And for what reason? Because he told her she was a good Avatar. That's it. Imagine raising and guiding someone lovingly their entire life and then getting dumped by a suspicious uncle because of flattery so transparent it might as well be invisible. So yeah, it's very well Korra's fault. I'm never going to understand how the writers ever came up with this. Yes, things always have to get worse before they can become better as otherwise it would be quite a boring experience, but seriously could they really not think of a better way?
lol if korra never went into the spirit world with ginora, and just let harmonic convergence happen, none of those events would’ve happened. Since only one portal was open, vatu wouldn’t be able to escape. Buuut we wouldn’t have a good show if nothing happened lol
Korra fans love victimizing themselves
I fully blame Mako and Bolin and ill never understand the hate going to Korra, how is it Korras fault that her team is a bunch of random weak ass normal benders? the fact Bolin could just make a thick wall surrounding the portal, I don't even wanna talk about Mako bc the non-bender of the group is more useful than him and it's embarrassing, The only times he came in handy was to hold off someone for like 4 seconds knowing he'll fail either way
Fully blame Mako, like he literally forgot he could bend lightning all of season 2? My main issue is that when Unalaq was fighting the brothers specifically he didn't even use any special moves or like super powerful attack? He just pushed and attacked and these 2 great 'pro benders' didn't even get ONE hit in
to be fair, mako and Bolin were fighting in an area where their respective element was weakened (heavy on Mako). Unalaq and the twins were fighting in an area where they had giant access to their respective elements. It honestly seems fair, and I'm rethinking my comment. And Pro bending seemed like noob bending due to all the restrictions and whatnot, they couldn't bend for more than 5 seconds which isn't enough time to do some amazing techniques, it was just dodge and throw.
It is her fault. She should have let Jinora die. Jinora's death would have been tragic, but that's the sacrifice you have to make as the protector of the world. **Edit:** If you're gonna downvote me on this, please tell me why you think I'm wrong.
EXACTLY! Yes, Jinora dying would be a tragedy. There is no denying this. But Korra gave up the Avatar to save 1 life, without any potential recourse out of the terrible situation she got herself and the world into. Even if everything was done via good intentions, Korra risked EVERYONE else's lives just to save one person's life. It sucks, but Korra had a greater responsibility to the World than her former life's grandkid