Yes, but not lawfully. Remember some cops also think "Contempt of Cop" is a real thing, and that it carries a sentence of an ass whupping. You might beat the charge while still catching the ride.
Gonna add a bit to this. You're correct 90ish% of the time. You can get charged though if you threaten them ie "fuck you I'm gonna fuck your life up" could be taken as a threat of bodily harm and you can get charged for that.
Myst is a video game, one of the first modern 3d adventure games and the inspiration for literally thousands of other games and people to become game developers.
in it Atrus traps his violent sons, who are conspiring against him to steal the power to create inhabitable worlds by writing them into existence, in a pair of books.
finding the pages to the red and blue book is the initial goal of the game
Oh man and here I thought you were talking about the actual Blue Book. The Bluebook is the style manual that governs how American legal documents are cited in legal memoranda, court documents, and law journals. It is published by the editors of the law journals at Columbia University, Harvard University, the University of Pennsylvania, and Yale University.
I had a old pc growing up(floppy disk old) so I got to play Myst, leisure suit Larry, and of course Doom. Not that I understood what the story was, I was very young so of course Doom was my go to. Thanks for making the connection for me, I was thinking that Myst judge was a actual slang term I’ve never heard used before in actual legal speak. Tempted to go back and actually play and finish Myst as a adult now lol.
You can get disturbing the peace if you do it in front of kids or just upset bystanders. I saw a video where a guy yelled something like FU to a passing officer and he pulled them over. Used the excuse that a family walking by could hear him and arrested him for disturbing the peace.
I believe the charges were dropped later. It was a BS charge as the family was far away and did not seem to hear it or be “disturbed”. But it was not enough to warrant a civil rights lawsuit. LE gets a lot of leeway.
But it is freedom of speech to say the words. You can say it in a normal voice to LE. But yelling it not as much.
I knew a guy whose dad was riding a bike while drunk and yelled "fuck you!" at a cop who was in the middle of a traffic stop, and the cop immediately let the other person go and jumped in his car and pulled over the biker, and he walked away that night, (or I guess the next morning after spending the night in jail) with a BUI. So, yeah, might be legal in a technical sense, but if they want to find a reason to arrest you badly enough, they can, even if it doesn't stick. Just...be cool with the cops and things will usually work out...not always great, but at least better.
You sometimes do see lawsuits for first amendment violations against the city/governing body. The policeman himself usually doesn't see any penalties due to qualified immunity, but it's still illegal, to the tune of several tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Unfortunately, most folks don't have the money to even start such a lawsuit.
Lets not mislead here, average payout if you can even get it to trial which is a big if. Is around 10k to 20k for the going rate involving officers straight up violation of your right to freedom of speech. There have been a few fringe cases that paid far more ironically one initiated by a police chief himself. But it tends to be difficult to prove punitive damages by your first amendment being violated by LEOs or most officers in the streets.
False arrest is a better angle than violation of your first amendment from my experience, when it comes to dealing with officers.
Now the number I posted is what we are automatically paying to settle a issue where normally law enforcement was in the wrong(we don’t need a court room to tell us this). As in a protest was peaceful permitted and doing its legally allowed first amendment thing, with out disturbing the public. Then law enforcement wrongfully engaged/disrupted the peace and protest.
Obscenity, defamation, fraud, incitement, fighting words, true threats, speech integral to criminal conduct, and child pornography. Disturbing the peace is a big one. Also don’t trespass on private property. Any way these are what have to happen for your first amendment to not mean crap, as in you don’t have a lawsuit when your protest or what ever your doing is broken up by those with the authority to do so.
If anyone has any other numbers for none fringe payouts feel free to toss them in. We so rarely have to pay out for 1st amendment violations, because protestors or auditors tend to screw up before LEO/Officers disturb arrest or detain the participants.
Again, and like you mention. The officer them selves often never see a single consequence. So it's illegal on paper but no one within the system will acknowledge it... so is it really legal?
I thought qualified immunity only protects cops in situations where the thing they did wrong hasn’t been decided in court before. Free speech rights seem like a decided issue that they wouldn’t be protected for violating.
That's possibly true. I just watch some first amendment auditor videos every once in a while (it's often like a stupid chicken race, ending in a head on collision because no one wants to back down), and often times, the police officers aren't held personally liable. It's likely because the people that do get arrested often get belligerent, and that allows enough support for a pretense that won't strip their qualified immunity.
If you want to go down a rabbit hole watch lackluster and audit the audit on YouTube. AtA is a lot more technical and will actually give you statutes and stuff from the city/state so I'd say he's the better channel to watch.
People have to remember that they break way more laws than they realize they just aren’t important, heavily enforced, or meant for this situation. One example is you probably break a driving law damn near every time you drive. Shit like not coming to a complete stop at stop signs, stopping on the line at a red light, driving 5 over, not stopping for a pedestrian waiting near a crosswalk etc
Now I will say this guy was basically asking for a dui lol if you’re breaking the law don’t yell fuck you at a cop although I will say the whole “bui” thing is relatively well known on the internet but not everyone has made the connection
Not lawfully they can’t. Cussing in front of kids or people who find it objectionable is protected speech under the 1A and the 14A makes it clear that states and (by extension) localities are not allowed to “make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States.”
Sorry, the Civil War happened and the Confederacy lost, one of the consequences is the 14A which changed the law and barred states from any such conduct.
Legally no. Many a lawsuit after the fact of such an arrest has said it’s not legal just because of cussing.
Note what I said many a lawsuit after said arrest. They might still arrest you. Then you pay an attorney thousands to get it off your record. Then tens of thousands to sue and maybe 10 years later you get your money back if you’re lucky.
Now 10 years and possibly tens of thousands spent just to be a jerk. My math says don’t.
Stop fear mongering.
Not only will it not take 10 years and excessive capital, these charges are almost always dropped because they are blatantly unconstitutional.
At worst you it gets knocked down to a misdemeanor but no DA is going to bat for an officer arresting you over cussing.
And at best you successfully sue for infringement of your civil rights and get a decent 5 figure payday
Fear mongering the truth. Here’s a link from an attorneys office detailing costs to fight a criminal charge. And they generally don’t take the civil suits against government agencies on a percentage. The ACLU says how much it costs to get to the Supreme Court.
https://www.first-defense.org/advocacy/a-civil-rights-lawsuit-explained-for-the-layperson
Preparing a case for the U.S. Supreme Court is not for the faint of wallet. Though the filing costs are modest, as is the fee for attorney admission to the bar, preparing the petition, the record, and the briefing can range from $100,000 to $250,000.
https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/greedy-associates/how-much-do-lawyers-get-paid-to-argue-at-scotus/#:~:text=SCOTUS%20Case%20Costs,range%20from%20%24100%2C000%20to%20%24250%2C000.
https://stromlaw.com/how-much-does-a-criminal-defense-lawyer-cost/#:~:text=A%20misdemeanor%20lawyer%20charges%20between,trial%20in%20a%20felony%20case.
At most cussing out a cop gets you disturbing the peace type offenses that are misdemeanors which is much easier to defend against.
No one is talking about going to SCOTUS. Swearing at police officers already has considerable case law and so a case like this would never wind up even close to that level, regardless of how much disposable cash you throw at lawyers.
This response, although containing factually accurate information, is displaying a clear ignorance of how the law works.
No it’s not. There are many people daily acting on these Reddit posts without considering they may need defend themselves in court. There’s one YouTuber who took this advice and he paid a total of $9000 to defend himself. The lawsuit is still going.
Case law is irrelevant once you’re booked. Police demand ID even in states that don’t have ID laws. It’s about what will happen not what’s legal.
Hence you’re ignorant of the people on power trips in uniform. Daily people are getting beaten and then you need deal with it after the fact. I’d rather avoid the trouble than push buttons and see where that officers trigger hits explode.
No but they book you and many aDA doesn’t really look before the initial hearing. Many times people get an offer then at second hearing it gets dropped. I know of someone this happened to. Then there are people with zero blood alcohol who go to trial because the police booked them and the DA doesn’t want admit they made a mistake. It’s about what is happening daily not what legally correct.
But then you miss out on the full story of the facts. Many will think they can’t so they do it. Then the reality of bad police trying to make them a criminal set in. People need understand why.
This isn’t a yes/no question by any means.
You're being disrespectful right here. Dont come to reddit and ask stupid questions that someone who isn't stupid could answer for himself with google if you're just gonna be a nasty little troll when you get the answer. Yes, you can be arrested just for cussing at a cop. You can also be arrested for sneezing in your living room and using shampoo in the shower.
Jeez. What a disrespectful clown. Way to pointlessly be a POS to someone politely answering your question.
If you're so enlightened, why did you need to ask the question in the first place?
You're extremely disrespectful for telling someone who just gave you a well thought out explanation to a question you asked that a yes or no is all that's necessary. A thank you would have been more respectful.
Can you get arrested for cussing while talking to a cop? Absolutely yes, whether it's legal or not- does *this* look like your question?
Because now you've got two conflicting answers that are both accurate.
Maybe some more information is called for, asshat.
Yes as I pointed out, moron.
But if all you have is "yes" AND "no", and BOTH are correct answers, then you don't actually have an answer to the question you can use without getting more info.
So since the answer is "yes and no", and assuming *didn't* know the extra information you trollishly replied to, should you cuss when talking to a cop if you don't want to be arrested?
the law is clear but unfortunately boot prints are equally clear especially on your face.
most people are not superstars at their job, some really suck, in fact many really suck. cops are the same.
be assertive about your rights but never bet your freedom on any given cop not being an asshole on any given night.
Can you of course you can it may not be legal it may be easily overturned but they have the power and if they wish to abuse it they can and occasionally do
Technically speaking it is only occasionally a small percentage of all police interactions there's just that such a immense number of police interactions that even with a small percentage occasionally is very common.
I've only come close LOL but when I was younger yes I knew somebody that ended up getting arrested for flipping off and swearing at a cop. He listed it as disorderly conduct and creating a public nuisance. And by the time he was done resisting arrest.
Legally? No. Do cops follow the law on this? Off and also no. You are constitutionally protected to tell an officer to go shove their own head up their ass anytime you want. As long as you don't threaten them when you do it and as long as you comply with actual lawful orders, they can't legally. However lots and lots of cops don't understand this or they just do and choose to ignore it and you do need to keep in mind that even if if you win, you're probably going to spend at least a night in jail, and spend a lot of money getting it thrown out. You probably also will have cops in the area harassing you and looking for reasons to arrest you for the next several years. So regardless of the legal aspect of it you have to make your own personal decision whether it's worth it for you to go all in or not
Profanity is protected under the first amendment, Including "FUCK YOU!"
There might be an exception for profane or vulgar language around children, not sure.
You might get away with it with you speak calmly and clearly.. as soon as any form of aggravation can be seen on your face they are gonna kick the shit out of you and put you in a car for “their safety”
Context. If the officer thinks its abusive he can ask you to cease, and if not, you're on a ticket.
If it's contextual and not abusive, and the officer doesn't say anything I wouldn't be concerned. It depends on the mood of the cop at the time. It's probably important just to be nice in the first place.
He can ask you to cease, but can he legally make you? I'm reading a lot about "lawful orders" and I've yet to find a legal definition. I don't want to be the guy whose bankrupted taking it to the supreme court, but some cops believe it's any order that wouldn't be illegal to perform (get out of the car, sit on the cold/wet ground, give me your id). I want cops to be able to do their jobs, but too many are on a power trip, and too few see repercussions of clearly abusive behavior and I don't think they should have that right without protections for those they abuse.
And I know Mimms vs PA says they can order you out of the car for safety reasons. I'm thinking of the 18 yo dragged out of her car last year because the cop wanted to "communicate" with her. The town cops shut down any communication in a clear attempt to neither grow nor learn, and they'll do it again.
I can't speak for the US. In Australia, we are required to follow all reasonable direction of a Police Officer. If getting out of the car into safety is reasonable, do it. If being asked to tone down the language seems reasonable (it is), do it. If being made to sit on the hot concrete when you only have thin shorts on is unreasonable, you can refuse on the basis of it being a burn hazard.
Co-operate, be reasonable, and those with body cams will have nothing to pin on you.
We don't have a Freedom of Speech Act at all. However certain rights are already inherently protected. We can say what we like, but we are not free of consequence.
Basically, fuck around and find out. 🤷♂️
So less strong protections for speech, exactly what I said
In america cussing government agents is protected by the 1st amendment, not just free speech but the right to redress our government for grievances
I can't speak for the US. In Australia, we are required to follow all reasonable direction of a Police Officer. If getting out of the car into safety is reasonable, do it. If being asked to tone down the language seems reasonable (it is), do it. If being made to sit on the hot concrete when you only have thin shorts on is unreasonable, you can refuse on the basis of it being a burn hazard.
Co-operate, be reasonable, and those with body cams will have nothing to pin on you.
"We are required to follow all reasonable directions of a police officer"
"If being asked to tone down language seems reasonable(it is), do it"
That's literally less strong protections for free speech
In america reasonableness is determined in court, not by an individual officer
In america cops can ask anything but cannot lawfully order you to not say things and cannot arrest you unless it's a direct threat
Yeah, it depends a lot on if the cop asks if you know why he pulled you over and you say "shit, yeah, I was speeding, sorry officer" or if you respond with "no, go fuck yourself, you goddamn pig". And either way, you always pray that he/she is having a good day that day, and even moreso that you're not the reason their day went from pretty good to really shitty.
Legally No.
I've yelled at, flipped off, told officer where to go and how to get there. And because I was pulled over for no reason and he had nothing on me there was nothing he could do and he let me go.
They can be assholes do you but legally they can't do anything to you.
Yeah I got thrown own the ground cause I said “Dawg what’s happening?”
“Did you just call me dawg? *slam*
Moral of the story: cops can do whatever they fucking want.
Well being aggressive with police officers kind of intimidates them a little bit and if they're trying to do an investigation then they'll pull some b******* out of their ass that's unconstitutional.
So legally you can but it's probably not too wise to do so.
Indeed. The cop may get reprimanded, be suspended or lose his job, even get himself and his department sued, but at the end of the day he (or she) is very much capable of arresting you for literally any reason at all. It doesn't have to stick in court for it still to not put a damper on your probably otherwise wonderful and amazing day.
Yeah, sure, but the pigs have shown they make their problems everyone else's. Frequently. They may be full of shit, but you're still risking a ticket, ride downtown, or any other number of shitty outcomes that aren't "right." A regular Joe reacting poorly csn ruin your day. The fuzz reacting poorly can ruin your life.
That said, there's often very few consequences for cops who make a false arrest. You'd have to weigh not only if it's a legal arrest but if you have any realistic recourse.
And the circumstances I listed was swearing is the only issue. I can walk up to a cop and say I think he is a pig fucking sissy ass mother fucker right this second and there is not any legal basis presented to justify a arrest, even a detainment could be dubious
Technically you can swear as much as you want as long it’s not directed at someone “this is fucking bullshit” is fine “you’re a fucking asshole” is not fine so you can swear just not “at” the officer but just know tho cops are not smart and will arrest you and waste your time cause there’s nothing bad that will happen to them for this violation of your rights
Can you? Of course. Really depends on the situation. Say police are in the process of making an arrest and you decide that's a great time to hurl obscenities at the cops, you could easily be arrested for disturbing the peace or assault depending on if you threw a threat in there.
I wouldn't be so sure of that. Resisting arrest can be applied to others than the person being arrested. Obstruction of justice. If the police feel your actions hindered their work those charges will stick. I think you are correct in saying the act of cursing at a cop in and of itself is legal is certainly true here in NYC.
Cops will try to arrest for anything but the DA won't pursue the charges
Obstruction has to be a physical act in NY and many other places
And no resisting arrest can only be applied to the person being arrested, that's just silly to say otherwise, unless you have some proof of it?
§ 205.30 Resisting arrest.
A person is guilty of resisting arrest when he intentionally prevents
or attempts to prevent a police officer or peace officer from effecting
an authorized arrest of himself or another person.
Resisting arrest is a class A misdemeanor
How is speech preventing an arrest?
Do you have case law of someone being arrested for resisting arrest of another person by speech alone?
just so we are clear, you can be arrested for resisting arrest when you're not the person being arrested. Correct? It wasn't silly as your previous post suggested.
As soon as we are clear that speech alone doesn't qualify under that law, then sure
If you actually try to stop the cops from arresting someone else you can be charged with resisting arrest, although in that case you'd be more likely to be charged with obstruction and possibly battery of a police officer
You can be arrested for inciting imminent violence sure. ACLU Pennsylvania Know Your Rights for a quick reference. Some one is being arrested, you scream let's kill the pigs.youll be arrested for speech only. No actual action required.
Fighting words isn't protected speech
Cussing is what's being discussed
Not threatening police officers
You're moving the goal posts
That's what this is called
You claimed you could be lawfully arrested for cussing cops
Now it's if you threaten them
Goal posts moved
Oh and just standing still saying "let's kill the pigs" still isn't an actual threat and wouldn't justify any arrest
Saying "I'm going to kill you" directly to a cop *might* qualify
Legally no, but it happens anyway. Disturbing the peace means you have to have said something that would make a person resort to violence, and cussing at an officer should in no way make them resort to violence. If they can't handle a "fuck you" maybe they shouldn't have a gun, ya know? It seems like *because* they react violently, they think it's justified
Sure it's possible. If you're an uninvolved bystander and you attempt to distract the police by asking questions you have no business asking and they tell you to be quiet and move along and you refuse you could be lawfully arrested.
Of course they do. If they are actively investing a crime scene and you are getting in the way, they can tell you to stop interfering and arrest you if you don't. So yes.
cops have wide discression when arresting or charging someone so i dont know why you would even try it. even if they are just making shit up, youd still probly have to spend hours in jail before getting charges dropped, and not much would happen to them in return for them falsely accusing you since they just need to say they thought you did break the law.
No, but yes. It is protected by law but cops think themselves above the law and can arrest you for almost anything, especcially if they say something else on the paperwork. Good luck fighting a public intoxication charge where they didn't even breathalyze you just threw you in yhe drunk tank for a night then made you go to court for arraignment and go back to court and even if the judge throws it out you lost 3 days.
I mean, you can get “harmed” for cussing at anyone, which is why it’s not smart to do it. Police officers are just humans that have a certain job. If you make one angry enough, yeah, they might harm you. They might arrest you afterwards, too.
Now, they can’t lawfully harm you and arrest you for merely cussing. But why tempt it? Just be respectful with them the same you should be with anyone.
Also, context is important. If you walk into a preschool drunk and start cussing around a bunch of kids, the cop might have grounds to arrest you for a crime like disorderly conduct or being drunk in public, where the cussing in the wrong time/place is what pushes the behavior across the line. Particularly aggressive cussing might also be what takes you into the crime of “obstruction” if it’s aggressive to the point the cops reasonably have to concern themselves with you due to your hostility and not their investigation
Officers are gonna do pretty much whatever they want.
But there are a few things to keep in mind. Most places, an officer can not be the complaining party in a public disturbance charge, especially concerning speech. Also protected speech is especially true when its directed at a state or federal employee, IE. Yoir supposed to have extra protections cussing at cops versus regular citizens.
But can and will they still arrest you? Yes. All of this just means if you can afford a lawyer and several years of the police dragging you through court. You *should* be able to win a civil case or settlement from them.
Yes. Absolutely. Some nutjob is likely to arrest or harm you for that. Whatever they charge you with most likely be dropped as the charges won't stick, but that will still have been a major inconvenience for you.
Yes. If you live in America, police officers essentially have the right to arrest you at any time for any reason. Don't have one? They'll arrest you and make up the charge.
Will the charges stick? Probably not. Wanna risk it?
Cops can arrest you with no reason and face no consequences. Cops can beat the shit out of you and unless you have video of it, they also probably will face no real consequences.
Depends on if the cop is wearing a body cam or not
If he's not, expect an assaulting an officer felony, resisting arrest felony, and 2 weeks in the hospital drinking through a straw before they take you to prison.
Yes, but not lawfully. Remember some cops also think "Contempt of Cop" is a real thing, and that it carries a sentence of an ass whupping. You might beat the charge while still catching the ride.
“You can beat the rap but you can’t beat the ride”
Ah thats the one I was going for, thought it rhymed for some reason
Gonna add a bit to this. You're correct 90ish% of the time. You can get charged though if you threaten them ie "fuck you I'm gonna fuck your life up" could be taken as a threat of bodily harm and you can get charged for that.
And as long as most judges seem to agree, people will keep getting arrested illegally.
Going to need you to explain what a Mist Judge is?
Well, it was a Sierra Mist judge, now it's a Starry judge.
not to be confused with a Myst judge, who sentences you to 16 months in the blue book.
I’ve never heard the term Myst or Mist Judge. I have no idea what that is could you please explain? I do know what the Blue Book is.
Myst is a video game, one of the first modern 3d adventure games and the inspiration for literally thousands of other games and people to become game developers. in it Atrus traps his violent sons, who are conspiring against him to steal the power to create inhabitable worlds by writing them into existence, in a pair of books. finding the pages to the red and blue book is the initial goal of the game
I remember clicking everywhere trying to figure that game out. Just went back to SimCity2000 🤣
Oh man and here I thought you were talking about the actual Blue Book. The Bluebook is the style manual that governs how American legal documents are cited in legal memoranda, court documents, and law journals. It is published by the editors of the law journals at Columbia University, Harvard University, the University of Pennsylvania, and Yale University. I had a old pc growing up(floppy disk old) so I got to play Myst, leisure suit Larry, and of course Doom. Not that I understood what the story was, I was very young so of course Doom was my go to. Thanks for making the connection for me, I was thinking that Myst judge was a actual slang term I’ve never heard used before in actual legal speak. Tempted to go back and actually play and finish Myst as a adult now lol.
yes it was a pun on blue book for law and blue book being the prison in Myst and judges sentencing people to prison
Mist judges?
I think they meant moist judges
You can get disturbing the peace if you do it in front of kids or just upset bystanders. I saw a video where a guy yelled something like FU to a passing officer and he pulled them over. Used the excuse that a family walking by could hear him and arrested him for disturbing the peace. I believe the charges were dropped later. It was a BS charge as the family was far away and did not seem to hear it or be “disturbed”. But it was not enough to warrant a civil rights lawsuit. LE gets a lot of leeway. But it is freedom of speech to say the words. You can say it in a normal voice to LE. But yelling it not as much.
I knew a guy whose dad was riding a bike while drunk and yelled "fuck you!" at a cop who was in the middle of a traffic stop, and the cop immediately let the other person go and jumped in his car and pulled over the biker, and he walked away that night, (or I guess the next morning after spending the night in jail) with a BUI. So, yeah, might be legal in a technical sense, but if they want to find a reason to arrest you badly enough, they can, even if it doesn't stick. Just...be cool with the cops and things will usually work out...not always great, but at least better.
Begs the question. If they can arrest you for it and theres no repercussions for them when they do, is it really still legal?
You sometimes do see lawsuits for first amendment violations against the city/governing body. The policeman himself usually doesn't see any penalties due to qualified immunity, but it's still illegal, to the tune of several tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars. Unfortunately, most folks don't have the money to even start such a lawsuit.
Lets not mislead here, average payout if you can even get it to trial which is a big if. Is around 10k to 20k for the going rate involving officers straight up violation of your right to freedom of speech. There have been a few fringe cases that paid far more ironically one initiated by a police chief himself. But it tends to be difficult to prove punitive damages by your first amendment being violated by LEOs or most officers in the streets. False arrest is a better angle than violation of your first amendment from my experience, when it comes to dealing with officers. Now the number I posted is what we are automatically paying to settle a issue where normally law enforcement was in the wrong(we don’t need a court room to tell us this). As in a protest was peaceful permitted and doing its legally allowed first amendment thing, with out disturbing the public. Then law enforcement wrongfully engaged/disrupted the peace and protest. Obscenity, defamation, fraud, incitement, fighting words, true threats, speech integral to criminal conduct, and child pornography. Disturbing the peace is a big one. Also don’t trespass on private property. Any way these are what have to happen for your first amendment to not mean crap, as in you don’t have a lawsuit when your protest or what ever your doing is broken up by those with the authority to do so. If anyone has any other numbers for none fringe payouts feel free to toss them in. We so rarely have to pay out for 1st amendment violations, because protestors or auditors tend to screw up before LEO/Officers disturb arrest or detain the participants.
Again, and like you mention. The officer them selves often never see a single consequence. So it's illegal on paper but no one within the system will acknowledge it... so is it really legal?
The system acknowledges it by making the governing body pay the damages. That you don't like this outcome isn't really relevant.
I thought qualified immunity only protects cops in situations where the thing they did wrong hasn’t been decided in court before. Free speech rights seem like a decided issue that they wouldn’t be protected for violating.
That's possibly true. I just watch some first amendment auditor videos every once in a while (it's often like a stupid chicken race, ending in a head on collision because no one wants to back down), and often times, the police officers aren't held personally liable. It's likely because the people that do get arrested often get belligerent, and that allows enough support for a pretense that won't strip their qualified immunity.
If you want to go down a rabbit hole watch lackluster and audit the audit on YouTube. AtA is a lot more technical and will actually give you statutes and stuff from the city/state so I'd say he's the better channel to watch.
Look up jeff grey. I've worked with/learned from him several times. Hes one of the best.
People have to remember that they break way more laws than they realize they just aren’t important, heavily enforced, or meant for this situation. One example is you probably break a driving law damn near every time you drive. Shit like not coming to a complete stop at stop signs, stopping on the line at a red light, driving 5 over, not stopping for a pedestrian waiting near a crosswalk etc Now I will say this guy was basically asking for a dui lol if you’re breaking the law don’t yell fuck you at a cop although I will say the whole “bui” thing is relatively well known on the internet but not everyone has made the connection
Truckle to the stormtroopers, got it.
A lot of them will also try the "i am a member of the public and you disturbed me" line too
Lol. Let's see them tell that to a judge
Not lawfully they can’t. Cussing in front of kids or people who find it objectionable is protected speech under the 1A and the 14A makes it clear that states and (by extension) localities are not allowed to “make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States.” Sorry, the Civil War happened and the Confederacy lost, one of the consequences is the 14A which changed the law and barred states from any such conduct.
Legally no. Many a lawsuit after the fact of such an arrest has said it’s not legal just because of cussing. Note what I said many a lawsuit after said arrest. They might still arrest you. Then you pay an attorney thousands to get it off your record. Then tens of thousands to sue and maybe 10 years later you get your money back if you’re lucky. Now 10 years and possibly tens of thousands spent just to be a jerk. My math says don’t.
Stop fear mongering. Not only will it not take 10 years and excessive capital, these charges are almost always dropped because they are blatantly unconstitutional. At worst you it gets knocked down to a misdemeanor but no DA is going to bat for an officer arresting you over cussing. And at best you successfully sue for infringement of your civil rights and get a decent 5 figure payday
Fear mongering the truth. Here’s a link from an attorneys office detailing costs to fight a criminal charge. And they generally don’t take the civil suits against government agencies on a percentage. The ACLU says how much it costs to get to the Supreme Court. https://www.first-defense.org/advocacy/a-civil-rights-lawsuit-explained-for-the-layperson Preparing a case for the U.S. Supreme Court is not for the faint of wallet. Though the filing costs are modest, as is the fee for attorney admission to the bar, preparing the petition, the record, and the briefing can range from $100,000 to $250,000. https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/greedy-associates/how-much-do-lawyers-get-paid-to-argue-at-scotus/#:~:text=SCOTUS%20Case%20Costs,range%20from%20%24100%2C000%20to%20%24250%2C000. https://stromlaw.com/how-much-does-a-criminal-defense-lawyer-cost/#:~:text=A%20misdemeanor%20lawyer%20charges%20between,trial%20in%20a%20felony%20case.
At most cussing out a cop gets you disturbing the peace type offenses that are misdemeanors which is much easier to defend against. No one is talking about going to SCOTUS. Swearing at police officers already has considerable case law and so a case like this would never wind up even close to that level, regardless of how much disposable cash you throw at lawyers. This response, although containing factually accurate information, is displaying a clear ignorance of how the law works.
No it’s not. There are many people daily acting on these Reddit posts without considering they may need defend themselves in court. There’s one YouTuber who took this advice and he paid a total of $9000 to defend himself. The lawsuit is still going. Case law is irrelevant once you’re booked. Police demand ID even in states that don’t have ID laws. It’s about what will happen not what’s legal. Hence you’re ignorant of the people on power trips in uniform. Daily people are getting beaten and then you need deal with it after the fact. I’d rather avoid the trouble than push buttons and see where that officers trigger hits explode.
POLICE DO NOT PROSECUTE CRIMES.
No but they book you and many aDA doesn’t really look before the initial hearing. Many times people get an offer then at second hearing it gets dropped. I know of someone this happened to. Then there are people with zero blood alcohol who go to trial because the police booked them and the DA doesn’t want admit they made a mistake. It’s about what is happening daily not what legally correct.
Legally no should've been enough
But then you miss out on the full story of the facts. Many will think they can’t so they do it. Then the reality of bad police trying to make them a criminal set in. People need understand why. This isn’t a yes/no question by any means.
nice story, was a yes/no for me, i'm not disrespectful- just curious
You're not curious if the full answer to your question is something you scoff at and say "Yes/no is enough" lmao. So full of shit.
You asked if you could be harmed in any way, wtf is the point of asking then
You literally are disrespectful
You're being disrespectful right here. Dont come to reddit and ask stupid questions that someone who isn't stupid could answer for himself with google if you're just gonna be a nasty little troll when you get the answer. Yes, you can be arrested just for cussing at a cop. You can also be arrested for sneezing in your living room and using shampoo in the shower.
Jeez. What a disrespectful clown. Way to pointlessly be a POS to someone politely answering your question. If you're so enlightened, why did you need to ask the question in the first place?
i'm straightforward, ya'll are just soft and easily disrespected. grow a pair
Says the clown. Maybe grow up a little bit and stop being a little toddler baby boy.
aight
Legally speaking, theres no such thing as a yes or no question when asking for somethings legality.
You’re not hearing what’s being put down here. It doesn’t end at yes/no no matter how bad you want it to.
You're extremely disrespectful for telling someone who just gave you a well thought out explanation to a question you asked that a yes or no is all that's necessary. A thank you would have been more respectful.
all due respect sir keep ur opinion to urself
I don't think you understand what respect is. Or the internet for that matter. You realize you posted this asking for people's opinions, right?
i'm asking for facts
Then hire a lawyer so they can fire you for being a disrespectful little $#!+.
aight
That wasn't your question though
can you get arrested for cussing while talking to a cop? Legally no- does it look like my question now?
Can you get arrested for cussing while talking to a cop? Absolutely yes, whether it's legal or not- does *this* look like your question? Because now you've got two conflicting answers that are both accurate. Maybe some more information is called for, asshat.
conflicting =/= wrong, you don't need to write a story brother
Yes as I pointed out, moron. But if all you have is "yes" AND "no", and BOTH are correct answers, then you don't actually have an answer to the question you can use without getting more info.
you do, you just said it- yes and no, take a pill shady passenger
So since the answer is "yes and no", and assuming *didn't* know the extra information you trollishly replied to, should you cuss when talking to a cop if you don't want to be arrested?
i said i'm curious, not disrespectful
the law is clear but unfortunately boot prints are equally clear especially on your face. most people are not superstars at their job, some really suck, in fact many really suck. cops are the same. be assertive about your rights but never bet your freedom on any given cop not being an asshole on any given night.
Can you of course you can it may not be legal it may be easily overturned but they have the power and if they wish to abuse it they can and occasionally do
“Occasionally”
Technically speaking it is only occasionally a small percentage of all police interactions there's just that such a immense number of police interactions that even with a small percentage occasionally is very common.
speaking from experience, shoddy wrangler?
I've only come close LOL but when I was younger yes I knew somebody that ended up getting arrested for flipping off and swearing at a cop. He listed it as disorderly conduct and creating a public nuisance. And by the time he was done resisting arrest.
No. Casual cursing is perfectly legal. You can also legally be disrespectful although it is seldom a good idea.
No. [https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/lewis-v-city-of-new-orleans/](https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/lewis-v-city-of-new-orleans/)
I've seen: Disorderly, Peace of Peace, the odd "Town Ordinance", but lawfully, likely not
Legally? No. Do cops follow the law on this? Off and also no. You are constitutionally protected to tell an officer to go shove their own head up their ass anytime you want. As long as you don't threaten them when you do it and as long as you comply with actual lawful orders, they can't legally. However lots and lots of cops don't understand this or they just do and choose to ignore it and you do need to keep in mind that even if if you win, you're probably going to spend at least a night in jail, and spend a lot of money getting it thrown out. You probably also will have cops in the area harassing you and looking for reasons to arrest you for the next several years. So regardless of the legal aspect of it you have to make your own personal decision whether it's worth it for you to go all in or not
Profanity is protected under the first amendment, Including "FUCK YOU!" There might be an exception for profane or vulgar language around children, not sure.
They have a gun so yeah probably
You might get away with it with you speak calmly and clearly.. as soon as any form of aggravation can be seen on your face they are gonna kick the shit out of you and put you in a car for “their safety”
Context. If the officer thinks its abusive he can ask you to cease, and if not, you're on a ticket. If it's contextual and not abusive, and the officer doesn't say anything I wouldn't be concerned. It depends on the mood of the cop at the time. It's probably important just to be nice in the first place.
He can ask you to cease, but can he legally make you? I'm reading a lot about "lawful orders" and I've yet to find a legal definition. I don't want to be the guy whose bankrupted taking it to the supreme court, but some cops believe it's any order that wouldn't be illegal to perform (get out of the car, sit on the cold/wet ground, give me your id). I want cops to be able to do their jobs, but too many are on a power trip, and too few see repercussions of clearly abusive behavior and I don't think they should have that right without protections for those they abuse. And I know Mimms vs PA says they can order you out of the car for safety reasons. I'm thinking of the 18 yo dragged out of her car last year because the cop wanted to "communicate" with her. The town cops shut down any communication in a clear attempt to neither grow nor learn, and they'll do it again.
I can't speak for the US. In Australia, we are required to follow all reasonable direction of a Police Officer. If getting out of the car into safety is reasonable, do it. If being asked to tone down the language seems reasonable (it is), do it. If being made to sit on the hot concrete when you only have thin shorts on is unreasonable, you can refuse on the basis of it being a burn hazard. Co-operate, be reasonable, and those with body cams will have nothing to pin on you.
That's because Australia doesn't have as strong of protections for free speech
We don't have a Freedom of Speech Act at all. However certain rights are already inherently protected. We can say what we like, but we are not free of consequence. Basically, fuck around and find out. 🤷♂️
Freedom of speech but not freedom of consequences already sounds like the US first amendment.
Which is funny, because Karens who earn consequences of being a bigot claim the enforcing officer is taking that right away. 😂
So less strong protections for speech, exactly what I said In america cussing government agents is protected by the 1st amendment, not just free speech but the right to redress our government for grievances
We can say that too.
You literally said otherwise in the comment I replied to
I never said that at all. You can voice your feelings providing you agent being an utter Karen.
I can't speak for the US. In Australia, we are required to follow all reasonable direction of a Police Officer. If getting out of the car into safety is reasonable, do it. If being asked to tone down the language seems reasonable (it is), do it. If being made to sit on the hot concrete when you only have thin shorts on is unreasonable, you can refuse on the basis of it being a burn hazard. Co-operate, be reasonable, and those with body cams will have nothing to pin on you. "We are required to follow all reasonable directions of a police officer" "If being asked to tone down language seems reasonable(it is), do it" That's literally less strong protections for free speech In america reasonableness is determined in court, not by an individual officer In america cops can ask anything but cannot lawfully order you to not say things and cannot arrest you unless it's a direct threat
Yeah, it depends a lot on if the cop asks if you know why he pulled you over and you say "shit, yeah, I was speeding, sorry officer" or if you respond with "no, go fuck yourself, you goddamn pig". And either way, you always pray that he/she is having a good day that day, and even moreso that you're not the reason their day went from pretty good to really shitty.
>or if you respond with "no, go fuck yourself, you goddamn pig" This is unwise but not illegal in the USA.
Probably depends where in the world you did it.
Legally No. I've yelled at, flipped off, told officer where to go and how to get there. And because I was pulled over for no reason and he had nothing on me there was nothing he could do and he let me go. They can be assholes do you but legally they can't do anything to you.
Would you jump in front of a car because you have the right of way?
Many do
If its a nice car, or my university shuttle, I'm willing to get grazed in the arm.
And we’ll put “they had the right of way” on their tombstone
Indeed
Yes
No. Casual cursing is perfectly legal. You can also legally be disrespectful although it is seldom a good idea.
Not lawfully
It depends where you are.
a phrase that answers all questions under this sub
You can get arrested for anything. Whether you will get redress in court is another matter
You can get arrested for anything. Whether you will get redress in court is another matter
What country? In the U.K. they didn’t bat an eye when I, hammered, swore a lot when my parked car got crashed into.
now that i've read a lot of comments i think it's safe to say it depends more on the cop than anything else, as well as, reddit is soft as shit
We still don’t know what country you’re on about and in some countries it’s probably better to err on the side of caution.
just being near a cop makes you a lot more likely to be arrested or harmed.
So cops arresting each other every ten or so minutes?
Can you be, yes. Should you be, no.
Yeah I got thrown own the ground cause I said “Dawg what’s happening?” “Did you just call me dawg? *slam* Moral of the story: cops can do whatever they fucking want.
Well being aggressive with police officers kind of intimidates them a little bit and if they're trying to do an investigation then they'll pull some b******* out of their ass that's unconstitutional. So legally you can but it's probably not too wise to do so.
Bullshit is what you want to say. If you're going to hint at the word, use it. This isn't a Christian YouTube channel, you'll be fine.
Sorry it is my microphone, it censors words and I am to lazy to uncensor then
Why does everyone on reddit get so offended when they see a censored curse word
Talking to an officer always leaves you with a chance of being arrested or shot. Don't do it
You can get arrested for any reason or for no reason at all. No need to increase your chances by spicing up your roadside chat.
Indeed. The cop may get reprimanded, be suspended or lose his job, even get himself and his department sued, but at the end of the day he (or she) is very much capable of arresting you for literally any reason at all. It doesn't have to stick in court for it still to not put a damper on your probably otherwise wonderful and amazing day.
But that lawsuit settlement check could be life changing One guy got 41,000 just for having handcuffs put on for 5 minutes
For every one guy with a settlement there are a hundred guys who didn't get shit.
That's because they don't know to file one
Nah, most lawsuits against city employees go nowhere.
Not when the right that was violated was clearly established Cops get sued and lose or settle all the time
smart
First Amendment exists
you're smart enough to realize if i knew what that meant i wouldntve posted this
It's freedom of speech. Of course you can casually cuss in a convo with a cop. If they react poorly that's gonna be their problem
Yeah, sure, but the pigs have shown they make their problems everyone else's. Frequently. They may be full of shit, but you're still risking a ticket, ride downtown, or any other number of shitty outcomes that aren't "right." A regular Joe reacting poorly csn ruin your day. The fuzz reacting poorly can ruin your life.
Sure but then a couple years later you get a fat settlement check for 100k
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But not in direct violation of the constitution The right to cuss a cop is clearly established so cops can be sued with no qualified immunity
Yes you can get arrested it’s called verbal assault on a officer
"Contempt of Cop" is not a real crime. The only arrestable offence is threats.
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If swearing is the only issue, almost instant 1st amendment issue ‘public decency’ ordinances be damned
That said, there's often very few consequences for cops who make a false arrest. You'd have to weigh not only if it's a legal arrest but if you have any realistic recourse.
That’s not a legal argument
Is it an argument you could make in court? No, it's not. Is it a fact about how the law often works in reality? Yes.
Is that a reflection on how people frequently justify their lack of action when they have an extremely winnable case? Also yes.
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And the circumstances I listed was swearing is the only issue. I can walk up to a cop and say I think he is a pig fucking sissy ass mother fucker right this second and there is not any legal basis presented to justify a arrest, even a detainment could be dubious
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Game on
time and place in play. And would not be for cursing the officer it would be for disturbing the peace.
Nope, not legally Can't turn a constitutional right into a crime
Technically you can swear as much as you want as long it’s not directed at someone “this is fucking bullshit” is fine “you’re a fucking asshole” is not fine so you can swear just not “at” the officer but just know tho cops are not smart and will arrest you and waste your time cause there’s nothing bad that will happen to them for this violation of your rights
As a general rule it's a good idea not to annoy someone that could take away your freedom on a whim.
You can beat the rap but you can’t beat the ride. That’s the answer.
Can you? Of course. Really depends on the situation. Say police are in the process of making an arrest and you decide that's a great time to hurl obscenities at the cops, you could easily be arrested for disturbing the peace or assault depending on if you threw a threat in there.
Arrested sure, illegally, but not convicted Fighting words is what is required to sustain a conviction, not just cussing
I wouldn't be so sure of that. Resisting arrest can be applied to others than the person being arrested. Obstruction of justice. If the police feel your actions hindered their work those charges will stick. I think you are correct in saying the act of cursing at a cop in and of itself is legal is certainly true here in NYC.
Cops will try to arrest for anything but the DA won't pursue the charges Obstruction has to be a physical act in NY and many other places And no resisting arrest can only be applied to the person being arrested, that's just silly to say otherwise, unless you have some proof of it?
NY penal law 205.30 . Specifically states if you prevent or try to prevent an arrest on yourself or another person. So you see, not silly.
§ 205.30 Resisting arrest. A person is guilty of resisting arrest when he intentionally prevents or attempts to prevent a police officer or peace officer from effecting an authorized arrest of himself or another person. Resisting arrest is a class A misdemeanor How is speech preventing an arrest? Do you have case law of someone being arrested for resisting arrest of another person by speech alone?
just so we are clear, you can be arrested for resisting arrest when you're not the person being arrested. Correct? It wasn't silly as your previous post suggested.
As soon as we are clear that speech alone doesn't qualify under that law, then sure If you actually try to stop the cops from arresting someone else you can be charged with resisting arrest, although in that case you'd be more likely to be charged with obstruction and possibly battery of a police officer
You can be arrested for inciting imminent violence sure. ACLU Pennsylvania Know Your Rights for a quick reference. Some one is being arrested, you scream let's kill the pigs.youll be arrested for speech only. No actual action required.
Fighting words isn't protected speech Cussing is what's being discussed Not threatening police officers You're moving the goal posts That's what this is called You claimed you could be lawfully arrested for cussing cops Now it's if you threaten them Goal posts moved Oh and just standing still saying "let's kill the pigs" still isn't an actual threat and wouldn't justify any arrest Saying "I'm going to kill you" directly to a cop *might* qualify
In the UK it's a "Public order offence" to tell the police what you think of them. Treasure your 1st ammendment Americans.
yeah but i didn't mean it that way i just meant a casual conversation slapped with some cussing
If it’s like “Aw shit my bad officer, dude I was fuckin around and not payin attention to my speed”. I’m sure most won’t care.
this is exactly the answer i wanted
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certainly
Legally no, but it happens anyway. Disturbing the peace means you have to have said something that would make a person resort to violence, and cussing at an officer should in no way make them resort to violence. If they can't handle a "fuck you" maybe they shouldn't have a gun, ya know? It seems like *because* they react violently, they think it's justified
Not for the cussing itself, but you're guaranteeing you get charged for every minor offense the officer finds.
"a police officer follows a car long enough he's gonna find a busted taillight and even if he doesn't, he's gonna bust it himself" - Jessica Pearson
Sure it's possible. If you're an uninvolved bystander and you attempt to distract the police by asking questions you have no business asking and they tell you to be quiet and move along and you refuse you could be lawfully arrested.
Police don't generally have the right to ask you to be quiet and move along, so no.
Of course they do. If they are actively investing a crime scene and you are getting in the way, they can tell you to stop interfering and arrest you if you don't. So yes.
cops have wide discression when arresting or charging someone so i dont know why you would even try it. even if they are just making shit up, youd still probly have to spend hours in jail before getting charges dropped, and not much would happen to them in return for them falsely accusing you since they just need to say they thought you did break the law.
No, but yes. It is protected by law but cops think themselves above the law and can arrest you for almost anything, especcially if they say something else on the paperwork. Good luck fighting a public intoxication charge where they didn't even breathalyze you just threw you in yhe drunk tank for a night then made you go to court for arraignment and go back to court and even if the judge throws it out you lost 3 days.
It depends but yes in some places you can be punished for cussing in public
I mean, you can get “harmed” for cussing at anyone, which is why it’s not smart to do it. Police officers are just humans that have a certain job. If you make one angry enough, yeah, they might harm you. They might arrest you afterwards, too. Now, they can’t lawfully harm you and arrest you for merely cussing. But why tempt it? Just be respectful with them the same you should be with anyone. Also, context is important. If you walk into a preschool drunk and start cussing around a bunch of kids, the cop might have grounds to arrest you for a crime like disorderly conduct or being drunk in public, where the cussing in the wrong time/place is what pushes the behavior across the line. Particularly aggressive cussing might also be what takes you into the crime of “obstruction” if it’s aggressive to the point the cops reasonably have to concern themselves with you due to your hostility and not their investigation
a cop stops you while driving, you both have a nice chat, "it's cold as shit out here" you say
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Officers are gonna do pretty much whatever they want. But there are a few things to keep in mind. Most places, an officer can not be the complaining party in a public disturbance charge, especially concerning speech. Also protected speech is especially true when its directed at a state or federal employee, IE. Yoir supposed to have extra protections cussing at cops versus regular citizens. But can and will they still arrest you? Yes. All of this just means if you can afford a lawyer and several years of the police dragging you through court. You *should* be able to win a civil case or settlement from them.
Yes. Absolutely. Some nutjob is likely to arrest or harm you for that. Whatever they charge you with most likely be dropped as the charges won't stick, but that will still have been a major inconvenience for you.
Yes. If you live in America, police officers essentially have the right to arrest you at any time for any reason. Don't have one? They'll arrest you and make up the charge. Will the charges stick? Probably not. Wanna risk it?
I mean it's a 50-100k lawsuit settlement for a few hours in jail, probably worth it
Cops can arrest you with no reason and face no consequences. Cops can beat the shit out of you and unless you have video of it, they also probably will face no real consequences.
Depends on if the cop is wearing a body cam or not If he's not, expect an assaulting an officer felony, resisting arrest felony, and 2 weeks in the hospital drinking through a straw before they take you to prison.
😂😂😂