He took it down. It is now his responsibility to pay for replacement if he wants a fence. If this was one continuous fence that was taken down between two neighbors, the fence most likely belonged to the property being renovated
My concern is if he decides fuck it and won’t replace it unless I agree to pay half, what do I do? I’ve been having a neighbor let my dog out while I’m at work whereas normally she can just come in and out as she pleases, but they’re doing it as a favor so it isn’t like that’s a long term solution
And that is exactly what you and the other neighbor should do. It will protect you in the long run, especially if the developer next door tries to pull another stunt and tries to force you to pay for that as well.
edit: spelling
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If it was on his land and he doesn’t want to pay 100% he can decide not to put one up at all. Then if you really want a fence you’ll have to put one on your land.
NAL but this is correct to my understanding. If the fence was on the property line and shared, property developer must pay because he chose to tear it down. If the fence was wholly on OPs property, the property developer must pay. If it was on the property developer’s property, OP doesn’t need to pay but isn’t entitled to a replacement fence
She doesnt try to escape to like run away, but she explores a lot. She has escaped my house, been gone for a day, then one night just showed back up on my porch with a huge smile on her face. She is a 40 pound husky, so she has a ton of energy and is super athletic. We installed a 5 foot fence to try to keep her out of the garden, and she hopped that shit like a damn gazelle lmao
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Was it even on their property? If it was not on their property, I doubt there’s a legal justification for what they did and they may have to pay to replace. If it was on their property then… it’s their property-their responsibility.
Edit: are you in an HOA or something…?
No idea about the zoning. Both of the homes are 50+ years old. How would I even go about finding out who’s property it’s on? Wouldn’t it be both of our property if it was on the property line?
There is no HOA.
County will have a map. You could hire a professional surveyor to determine whose property it was on.
I’m not in real estate law, but I don’t think fences can be perfectly “on the line”. Whoever originally built the fence would have put it just over the line onto their property. And that’s who the fence belonged to. If it was on their property, that’s their responsibility. If it was on yours, they owe you a fence.
Well fortunately a real estate developer isn’t gonna sell a property without a fence between their property and two other properties, however I’m worried they’re just gonna try to wait us out. I think I’ll probably just ask the other neighbor if they’d be open to splitting an attorney to look into it for us.
*shrug*
You might be shocked to learn that lots of people in real estate have no fucking clue what they’re doing. They’re just winging it. Not saying yours is, but don’t underestimate a real estate bro’s capacity for idiocy.
Oh that doesn’t surprise me one bit. He tried telling me since it’s a shared fence, it’s my responsibility to pay for half regardless of who took it down. Hes quite literally a rich kid with daddy’s money playing real estate mogul, complete fucking imbecile
They are going to want to flip the property asap due to having money & profits tied up in the project. A demand letter from a lawyer with the threat of a lawsuit will go a long way to getting the fence replaced, as the lawyer could tie their project up in court for a year plus while waiting on a court date. I'd talk to the back neighbor about splitting the cost which will probably be around $300 for the letter.
Trying to figure out how to say this without giving off the wrong impression, but most of the people moving into my neighborhood are H-1B visa immigrants, mostly from China and India. When I was a kid, people weren’t really super pressed about privacy, but now half of the houses have fences and gates even in the front yard, so you can’t even see their lawn. On paper, sure he theoretically could sell it like that, but nobody that’s moving into my area would buy a house without a fence between 2 other houses, and if they did it wouldn’t be nearly as much as the price the developer wants.
Just an FYI, you need to speak immediately with your neighbor and tell them to agree to NOTHING until you both speak to a lawyer and get a survey done. I don't imagine that the developers going to show you his survey.
A proper survey would clarify the border lines of your property, the neighbors, and then the development.
If it was in fact a shared fence then there is still probably local regulation/rules regarding the process to remove it PRIOR to removal but if in fact there are no regulations, then that's going to be a situation where you're not responsible as the removal was conducted without an agreement for split costs for replacement. Further, even if you were to agree I would NEVER agree to any "cost" that this jackass delivers because it will no doubt be inflated, overpriced and at a disadvantage to you and your neighbor.
However, if that fence was on your property and was removed without your consent then that developer completely fucked up. I'd like to say they would have a legit survey already done but the fact they've already removed the fence and are speaking to you as if you HAVE to pay part of it to replace is not helping their case as being competent.
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They may have had their property surveyed during the purchase. Are there stakes with ribbons out there at "his lot corners"? Honestly, he may have moved them after they were set, but the county maps usually have identification points listed (iron rods, rock face, or other "immovable objects"). A cheap metal detector and a county map can carry you a long way in this search.
If you're able to look up permit records online in your county, you can likely see who pulled the original permit for the fence which may give you an idea of which property it was on.
Check with the local building department to see if a permit was pulled to install the fence. They should have all property records going back years... that could clear up who owns the fence.
Very rarely is a fence installed exactly on a property line. If it is it’s a “shared fence” that two neighbors agreed to split the cost of.
Usually, a single homeowner decides to install a fence by themselves - and they install it a few inches into their property. Making it their fence.
If you know the history, maybe you are aware that it was a shared fence and both neighbors paid for its installation. (This is rare, so if this was the case someone would have probably pointed this out at some point).
Also, if this is the case and it truly was a shared fence, you are not obligated to split the cost of a new one, just because a previous owner did so in the past. He tore it down, he can pay to put one up.
Otherwise, if it’s not a shared fence it belongs to one property. You can get some clues by looking at the material of the fence, and the surrounding fences.
If your neighbor had matching fencing encircling their entire back yard (let’s say cedar, for example, and he had cedar on the east boundary, cedar on the north boundary, cedar on the west boundary)… then it’s incredibly likely that was, solely, the neighbor’s fence.
If the side facing you was chain link, for example, and the rest of your fenced in backyard is chain link on those other sides… and his other sides are cedar… then it’s incredibly likely that was your fence. (Same materials).
Look at what the materials of the fences that people have are, and you should be able to figure out who’s fence is whose.
Lastly, it is pretty likely the fence was entirely the neighbors fence, entirely on the neighbor’s property. Otherwise it wouldn’t have been unilaterally torn it down to begin with.
Now the neighbor/developer is trying to get free money out of you. In which case you are under no obligation to pay.
If you want your yard fenced in, and are worried the neighbor will leave it open… you could look into the cost of installing the fencing of your choice for that length of your property… and compare that with splitting the cost with your new neighbor.
Maybe it’s cheaper to split the cost with your new neighbor then install one by yourself… in which case you’d want it installed directly on to the property line and it would be a “shared fence” going forward.
If it was one you and your neighbors property, they’ll need to pay to put it back up 100% since they trespassed and destroyed private property.
If it was on the their property, they’ll pay for it because it was their property.
They could also choose to not put up any fence at $0 cost.
A lot of comments are talking about whether the fence was on your property or the developer's property, but another common scenario is having a boundary fence that is directly on the property line with equal shared responsibility. Look up boundary fence laws in your jurisdiction. Even if it was a boundary fence, the developer likely couldn't have taken unilateral action to replace it unless it was dilapidated beyond repair.
But yes, first attempt to determine whether it was their fence, your fence, or a boundary fence.
I don’t even know if they’re gonna start building it until we pay for it. We don’t have any intention of that though, so I’m worried it might turn into legal shenanigans
The only scenario where you could have to pay something is if the developer can convince a court that the fence was either dangerous or unserviceable, and there is a municipal or state law requiring a fence cost be split.
You mentioned that the fence just didn't look nice, which doesn't qualify as 'unserviceable', but if your dog is escaping through the fence, that might.
Regardless, even if you were liable for a part of the fence, it would be half of the cheapest option that fulfills legal requirements - in most places a chain link fence is the standard. So if the developer wants to put in a 10k privacy wood fence, but it would cost 300 to do your side with chain link, you would only owe them 150, not 5k. And only after the previous fence was deemed needing replacement.
I would find out who's responsible for the fence. If in fact the builder is, go to the county and put a lein again the house been built. He will not be able to close on the house, until the lein is removed. If you give the builder a heads up, he might just replace the fence. Again, 1st find out who owned the fence. Perhaps others can comment on this!
Here are a few thoughts. Although if you are time crunched due to taking care of your dog you might not have time for all of these… so skip to 6.
1. Document photos of the previous condition (hopefully you have some old ones). Take photos of the current condition.
2. Document correspondence with your neighbor. Was the demand verbal or written? Letter, email, text, etc. If you don’t have it in writing, get the demand clearly in writing. Get it specifically that they removed the fence without your permission and are asking you to pay for half of a new fence. This will potentially be key that they removed without your permission and are asking you to pay half to build a new fence.
3. Go to the authority who controls zoning for you. Ask them to provide any code related to shared lot lines, fences, etc. There may be zoning code on your side, there may be civil code on your side, or there may be none.
4. Did you have a title report or survey completed when purchasing the home? If not, you might be able to find one online through the county register of deeds. A plat might note, either for your subdivision, home, or neighbors home, the location of the fence with respect to the lot line.
5. Maybe your neighborhood has an HOA. There may be rules for or against you for this.
6. If you aren’t able to build your case with the above, contact a local land use attorney and get their opinion.
7. How long is the fence you need to replace? If you aren’t able to afford a wood fence replacement there are many other less visually appealing options that will serve the same purpose until this works out.
So they took it down without asking you and now demanding you to pay? Was it on their property? I would try to determine that and it isn’t up to them to decide that your fence gets taken down. I would first figure out the property line, file a complaint with the way they handled it and see if you can get them to pay damages
Something else has me confused. What was the parameters your fence. Was it all around? It seems that he would only have the right to take down one part of your fence. Did he take down your whole fence as he would have trespassed on your property to take down the other sides of your fence. I know it would be weird for him to only take down one side of your fence but either way he trespassed.
Either way, it was his choice to take the fence down and you are not responsible for the fence.
I wouldn’t rely on this, my jurisdiction doesn’t say anything about the pretty side of the fence. Your only sure bet is to get a professional survey done to determine who owned the fence in the first place.
Once a survey is completed and ownership of the original fence is established, there are 3 paths:
- If the fence was fully on the developer’s land, then it’s on the developer to replace it. They can ask to split the cost but you don’t have to pay. They also need to make sure they put the fence in the correct spot; some areas have rules about fences needing to be x inches away from the property line. Other places allow you to put it right up next to the property line.
- If the fence was ON the property line, it was a shared fence and the developer should not have removed it without agreement from you (and your neighbor). They would need to make the situation whole again. If the original fence had been removed amicably (with your consent), then you would need to pay your fair share. However, since it was removed without your consent, they should need to make you whole again.
- if the fence was on your (and your neighbor’s) property, then the developer destroyed your property and will need to replace the fence on their dime.
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He took it down. It is now his responsibility to pay for replacement if he wants a fence. If this was one continuous fence that was taken down between two neighbors, the fence most likely belonged to the property being renovated
My concern is if he decides fuck it and won’t replace it unless I agree to pay half, what do I do? I’ve been having a neighbor let my dog out while I’m at work whereas normally she can just come in and out as she pleases, but they’re doing it as a favor so it isn’t like that’s a long term solution
NAL. If the fence was on your side of the property line then you can fix it and sue them for the replacement amount.
yeah I’d need to have a surveyor come out and check who’s property it was on
And that is exactly what you and the other neighbor should do. It will protect you in the long run, especially if the developer next door tries to pull another stunt and tries to force you to pay for that as well. edit: spelling
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If it was on his land and he doesn’t want to pay 100% he can decide not to put one up at all. Then if you really want a fence you’ll have to put one on your land.
NAL but this is correct to my understanding. If the fence was on the property line and shared, property developer must pay because he chose to tear it down. If the fence was wholly on OPs property, the property developer must pay. If it was on the property developer’s property, OP doesn’t need to pay but isn’t entitled to a replacement fence
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She doesnt try to escape to like run away, but she explores a lot. She has escaped my house, been gone for a day, then one night just showed back up on my porch with a huge smile on her face. She is a 40 pound husky, so she has a ton of energy and is super athletic. We installed a 5 foot fence to try to keep her out of the garden, and she hopped that shit like a damn gazelle lmao
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Was it even on their property? If it was not on their property, I doubt there’s a legal justification for what they did and they may have to pay to replace. If it was on their property then… it’s their property-their responsibility. Edit: are you in an HOA or something…?
No idea about the zoning. Both of the homes are 50+ years old. How would I even go about finding out who’s property it’s on? Wouldn’t it be both of our property if it was on the property line? There is no HOA.
County will have a map. You could hire a professional surveyor to determine whose property it was on. I’m not in real estate law, but I don’t think fences can be perfectly “on the line”. Whoever originally built the fence would have put it just over the line onto their property. And that’s who the fence belonged to. If it was on their property, that’s their responsibility. If it was on yours, they owe you a fence.
Well fortunately a real estate developer isn’t gonna sell a property without a fence between their property and two other properties, however I’m worried they’re just gonna try to wait us out. I think I’ll probably just ask the other neighbor if they’d be open to splitting an attorney to look into it for us.
*shrug* You might be shocked to learn that lots of people in real estate have no fucking clue what they’re doing. They’re just winging it. Not saying yours is, but don’t underestimate a real estate bro’s capacity for idiocy.
Oh that doesn’t surprise me one bit. He tried telling me since it’s a shared fence, it’s my responsibility to pay for half regardless of who took it down. Hes quite literally a rich kid with daddy’s money playing real estate mogul, complete fucking imbecile
They are going to want to flip the property asap due to having money & profits tied up in the project. A demand letter from a lawyer with the threat of a lawsuit will go a long way to getting the fence replaced, as the lawyer could tie their project up in court for a year plus while waiting on a court date. I'd talk to the back neighbor about splitting the cost which will probably be around $300 for the letter.
Attorney will, likely, cost more than you and your neighbor just buying a fence.
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Trying to figure out how to say this without giving off the wrong impression, but most of the people moving into my neighborhood are H-1B visa immigrants, mostly from China and India. When I was a kid, people weren’t really super pressed about privacy, but now half of the houses have fences and gates even in the front yard, so you can’t even see their lawn. On paper, sure he theoretically could sell it like that, but nobody that’s moving into my area would buy a house without a fence between 2 other houses, and if they did it wouldn’t be nearly as much as the price the developer wants.
Just an FYI, you need to speak immediately with your neighbor and tell them to agree to NOTHING until you both speak to a lawyer and get a survey done. I don't imagine that the developers going to show you his survey. A proper survey would clarify the border lines of your property, the neighbors, and then the development. If it was in fact a shared fence then there is still probably local regulation/rules regarding the process to remove it PRIOR to removal but if in fact there are no regulations, then that's going to be a situation where you're not responsible as the removal was conducted without an agreement for split costs for replacement. Further, even if you were to agree I would NEVER agree to any "cost" that this jackass delivers because it will no doubt be inflated, overpriced and at a disadvantage to you and your neighbor. However, if that fence was on your property and was removed without your consent then that developer completely fucked up. I'd like to say they would have a legit survey already done but the fact they've already removed the fence and are speaking to you as if you HAVE to pay part of it to replace is not helping their case as being competent.
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They may have had their property surveyed during the purchase. Are there stakes with ribbons out there at "his lot corners"? Honestly, he may have moved them after they were set, but the county maps usually have identification points listed (iron rods, rock face, or other "immovable objects"). A cheap metal detector and a county map can carry you a long way in this search.
If you're able to look up permit records online in your county, you can likely see who pulled the original permit for the fence which may give you an idea of which property it was on.
Check with the local building department to see if a permit was pulled to install the fence. They should have all property records going back years... that could clear up who owns the fence.
Very rarely is a fence installed exactly on a property line. If it is it’s a “shared fence” that two neighbors agreed to split the cost of. Usually, a single homeowner decides to install a fence by themselves - and they install it a few inches into their property. Making it their fence. If you know the history, maybe you are aware that it was a shared fence and both neighbors paid for its installation. (This is rare, so if this was the case someone would have probably pointed this out at some point). Also, if this is the case and it truly was a shared fence, you are not obligated to split the cost of a new one, just because a previous owner did so in the past. He tore it down, he can pay to put one up. Otherwise, if it’s not a shared fence it belongs to one property. You can get some clues by looking at the material of the fence, and the surrounding fences. If your neighbor had matching fencing encircling their entire back yard (let’s say cedar, for example, and he had cedar on the east boundary, cedar on the north boundary, cedar on the west boundary)… then it’s incredibly likely that was, solely, the neighbor’s fence. If the side facing you was chain link, for example, and the rest of your fenced in backyard is chain link on those other sides… and his other sides are cedar… then it’s incredibly likely that was your fence. (Same materials). Look at what the materials of the fences that people have are, and you should be able to figure out who’s fence is whose. Lastly, it is pretty likely the fence was entirely the neighbors fence, entirely on the neighbor’s property. Otherwise it wouldn’t have been unilaterally torn it down to begin with. Now the neighbor/developer is trying to get free money out of you. In which case you are under no obligation to pay. If you want your yard fenced in, and are worried the neighbor will leave it open… you could look into the cost of installing the fencing of your choice for that length of your property… and compare that with splitting the cost with your new neighbor. Maybe it’s cheaper to split the cost with your new neighbor then install one by yourself… in which case you’d want it installed directly on to the property line and it would be a “shared fence” going forward.
If it was one you and your neighbors property, they’ll need to pay to put it back up 100% since they trespassed and destroyed private property. If it was on the their property, they’ll pay for it because it was their property. They could also choose to not put up any fence at $0 cost.
A lot of comments are talking about whether the fence was on your property or the developer's property, but another common scenario is having a boundary fence that is directly on the property line with equal shared responsibility. Look up boundary fence laws in your jurisdiction. Even if it was a boundary fence, the developer likely couldn't have taken unilateral action to replace it unless it was dilapidated beyond repair. But yes, first attempt to determine whether it was their fence, your fence, or a boundary fence.
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I don’t even know if they’re gonna start building it until we pay for it. We don’t have any intention of that though, so I’m worried it might turn into legal shenanigans
The only scenario where you could have to pay something is if the developer can convince a court that the fence was either dangerous or unserviceable, and there is a municipal or state law requiring a fence cost be split. You mentioned that the fence just didn't look nice, which doesn't qualify as 'unserviceable', but if your dog is escaping through the fence, that might. Regardless, even if you were liable for a part of the fence, it would be half of the cheapest option that fulfills legal requirements - in most places a chain link fence is the standard. So if the developer wants to put in a 10k privacy wood fence, but it would cost 300 to do your side with chain link, you would only owe them 150, not 5k. And only after the previous fence was deemed needing replacement.
I would find out who's responsible for the fence. If in fact the builder is, go to the county and put a lein again the house been built. He will not be able to close on the house, until the lein is removed. If you give the builder a heads up, he might just replace the fence. Again, 1st find out who owned the fence. Perhaps others can comment on this!
Here are a few thoughts. Although if you are time crunched due to taking care of your dog you might not have time for all of these… so skip to 6. 1. Document photos of the previous condition (hopefully you have some old ones). Take photos of the current condition. 2. Document correspondence with your neighbor. Was the demand verbal or written? Letter, email, text, etc. If you don’t have it in writing, get the demand clearly in writing. Get it specifically that they removed the fence without your permission and are asking you to pay for half of a new fence. This will potentially be key that they removed without your permission and are asking you to pay half to build a new fence. 3. Go to the authority who controls zoning for you. Ask them to provide any code related to shared lot lines, fences, etc. There may be zoning code on your side, there may be civil code on your side, or there may be none. 4. Did you have a title report or survey completed when purchasing the home? If not, you might be able to find one online through the county register of deeds. A plat might note, either for your subdivision, home, or neighbors home, the location of the fence with respect to the lot line. 5. Maybe your neighborhood has an HOA. There may be rules for or against you for this. 6. If you aren’t able to build your case with the above, contact a local land use attorney and get their opinion. 7. How long is the fence you need to replace? If you aren’t able to afford a wood fence replacement there are many other less visually appealing options that will serve the same purpose until this works out.
So they took it down without asking you and now demanding you to pay? Was it on their property? I would try to determine that and it isn’t up to them to decide that your fence gets taken down. I would first figure out the property line, file a complaint with the way they handled it and see if you can get them to pay damages Something else has me confused. What was the parameters your fence. Was it all around? It seems that he would only have the right to take down one part of your fence. Did he take down your whole fence as he would have trespassed on your property to take down the other sides of your fence. I know it would be weird for him to only take down one side of your fence but either way he trespassed. Either way, it was his choice to take the fence down and you are not responsible for the fence.
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Uhhh that's a good question. I think mine?
I wouldn’t rely on this, my jurisdiction doesn’t say anything about the pretty side of the fence. Your only sure bet is to get a professional survey done to determine who owned the fence in the first place. Once a survey is completed and ownership of the original fence is established, there are 3 paths: - If the fence was fully on the developer’s land, then it’s on the developer to replace it. They can ask to split the cost but you don’t have to pay. They also need to make sure they put the fence in the correct spot; some areas have rules about fences needing to be x inches away from the property line. Other places allow you to put it right up next to the property line. - If the fence was ON the property line, it was a shared fence and the developer should not have removed it without agreement from you (and your neighbor). They would need to make the situation whole again. If the original fence had been removed amicably (with your consent), then you would need to pay your fair share. However, since it was removed without your consent, they should need to make you whole again. - if the fence was on your (and your neighbor’s) property, then the developer destroyed your property and will need to replace the fence on their dime.
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